SHF Podcast, Season 2, Episode 13: Sacred Allowance with Thessa Sophia

In this episode of the Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast, we welcome Thessa Sophia, a healing practitioner and inner landscape guide whose spiritual journey has been shaped by direct experiences with inner guides and deeper dimensions of consciousness. Thessa shares her profound spiritual path, including how guides appeared to teach and support her before eventually integrating into her own being. Through these experiences, she came to understand her work as a living embodiment of tantra, not through traditional lineages, but through direct relationship with Shiva consciousness itself.

Thessa explains her core practice of acceptance and allowance, teaching that every aspect of creation, including our judgments, illnesses, and struggles, is inherently divine. Through accepting all somatic experiences while attuning to silence and stillness, we can integrate separated aspects of consciousness and experience profound transformation. She discusses how we're shifting from an era of learning through suffering to one of learning through bliss, emphasizing that the collapse we're witnessing collectively mirrors personal dissolution that creates space for new consciousness to emerge. 

Find Thessa:

FB: Thessa Tara Sophia

Substack: https://thessa.substack.com/ 

YT: https://www.youtube.com/@Coreexpression 

Find Katherine at sovereignheartcoaching.com 

Find Miriah at wholebeingcounseling.com 

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to the Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast. I'm Katherine Finley with Sovereign Heart Coaching and I'm here with my co host Miriah Feehery of Whole Being Counseling. We recognize that we're living through an intense time on our planet. There seems to be more polarization and division and less connected communication than ever before. We are here to change that. We intention to hold conversations in a container of love and authenticity. We believe that when humans come together from a heart centered place, we can not only understand one another, but we can get creative together, solving problems we couldn't solve alone. It's time to reimagine and rebirth a new world in which everyone's authentic voice is included in the harmonic orchestra of human voices, to create a world that works for all of us. Thank you for being part of this conversation, we're excited to have you. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast. I'm Katherine Finley and I'm here with my co-host Miriah Feehery. And we are so excited to have a friend and healer with us today. The Sophia and I know this, from our daughters growing up together. They have a really sweet relationship and that's what introduced me to her and her work. And, I'm so excited for her to explore what she does and, what her healing is like and how she views the world in today's podcast. So the, thank you so much for being here. And a little more about the, the spiritual journey officially began. When she was initiated into Crea Yoga in 1999, in the years since, she trained as a healer in many modalities, including nutrition, herbalism, allergy elimination, trauma healing, and shamanic healing. In 2007, her inner guides came online as constant companions in the healing processes, showing her how to journey in meditation in a way that included and expanded her healing training and experience into one, founded and awakening to foundational levels of consciousness. The search for healing was revealed as the search for and embodiment of the true self. These guides, one by one, were integrated into her over the years until finally, the last guide also now integrated, revealed himself as a form of Shiva, primal awakeness known as Adi Yogi. This revelation included the actual nature of her path as a living embodiment of a stream of consciousness founded within Shiva, himself known as tantra. Her enfoldment into tantra has been a side effect of her direct relationship with Shiva and the illustration and communion with the fundamental forces of creation, not as the Dasa Maja Vidia. Her journey has been independent of the neo tantric movement and the lineages of classical tantra, yet aligned with the wisdom handed down through the Vedic Tibetan Buddhist, kashmere, shivaism, and cita lineages. Two thesis tantra is the divine truth sitting at the heart of all religions realized through direct experience, which cultivates realization of and unification with the supreme consciousness as the living embodiment of the divine in and as all things. She was given the name Tantra Soma, as the name of her work. One meeting of tantric is the essence of pure, blissful awakeness, interwoven and alive within and as every expression of consciousness. That's really beautiful thesis. We're so excited to have you and there's so much there so many directions we could take. And so I wanted to start, back a little bit with your history,'cause I found myself really curious about this experience of these guides coming online as your constant companions and then being integrated into your being. And I wondered if you could, walk us through that and share more about that experience. Yeah, thanks Katherine. I really am happy to be here and, talk with you. So thanks for that opportunity. And, firstly. I think the story of my guides first appearing, is really fun for me. Even myself. I look back on that day and I'm like, wow, that was amazing. That was an amazing experience. I was coming from a shamanic training. I was actually assisting on, on a 10 day training in Scotland, and I lived in Italy at this time, and that was a really key period of my life because I spent two years with this teacher, really, intimately working with him and a group gaining a lot of the framework and foundation for how I would work. Up until now, but on my way home, I had flown into Milan and then I had to drive like four hours to my home from the Milan airport, and as I was driving, I was. In meditation, continuing what I was in the process of learning this shamanic way of working, which you're not supposed to do when you're driving, but you know, we always did. It was like my teacher would go, okay, we gotta go pick up someone from the airport. Everyone jump in the car, and I will lead us on a journey as we're in the car on the way to the airport. So it was just a constant way of life for me. You know, uh, as I'm driving home, I suddenly am aware of four presences behind me. And when I could see them in my inner vision, they just looked like pillars of light. Like they didn't really want to define themselves any more than that. And as I was working on myself and, and practicing what I had learned and what I was learning in this, Modality. I would feel and sense every once in a while, one of them kind of like coming close to my ear in a way and passing along some kind of information. Like, look at this, you notice in your experience there's this thing. And I would go, oh wow, there's this thing. And then they might pass on some insight about this thing or how to integrate it or how to work with it. And I did that for four hours on the way home. So it created this experience in myself of just bliss and in and in credulity really, you know? So that was the beginning and then over the years, and I went. Through this really harrowing experience with my teacher at that time, I kind of knew that I was really gaining a lot of incredible experience with that particular teacher. And I also knew it would be a limited time together because there were just things that were messy. Like I needed to get in and get out after I took the heart of what I was supposed to get. So after I did that, which ended up being in 2009, I was kind of running solo, like, okay, I took this leap to leave my teacher and that teaching, what do I do now? And those guides stepped in and went, we're gonna show you the next piece. You know? So for a long time when I was working with clients, when I was working with myself, when I was just. In my daily life, I could tune in to them and they would offer guidance. And I called them my peers because it felt like my friends just sitting in the space going, Hey, what about that?'cause, you know, having four friends with you all the time, but that were pretty knowledgeable. So what I discovered after a while was working for probably 4, 3, 4 or five years with them there by my side. And then sometimes they would show me their physical form, like a physical form that looked human. You know, I kinda had this insight like, oh, that's must have been what they looked like when they were embodied in a human body. And then they started to disappear. Mm-hmm. And, and it started like this. It was like, instead of being a pillar of light, the pillar of light would kind of. Fade and just be like a whisper of what it was, you know? And, and this happened over time and I realized through their appearance and disappearance and where I was in my own journey, that they were really aspects of myself that didn't, it didn't mean at all that I was crazy or you know, that they weren't real. It just meant that I was attuning to an aspect of myself that was also multidimensional and not necessarily applied to the human dimension in the conceptual way that we might. Normally think about people. Yeah. And so there was simultaneously a part of me and also something bigger than me. And when They merged into me that something bigger became imminent within my experience. And because of that, I didn't need an entity there to point things out that they were pointing out because it was just inherent with like, the level of wisdom that they were tapping into was like, okay, now this is an inherent part of you. And so, so through the years, three of them disappeared in that way with, as I was like attaining the levels of wisdom that they had been offering me until finally the only one remained. And he turned from a pillar of light into what looked like a human. Mm. And I mean, literally I could sit like I'm sitting now and tune into the space where he was, and I could feel him appear in relationship to my body as this man. And he Always appeared within, a picture of time and space, which through inquiry I learned was what is now Mongolia. And I could see like the planes, the high planes of Mongolia and the mountains backing up these planes. And I could see just the ways of living a parent in the space with animals and very simple life, simple and beautiful life, you know? And he would always present himself like in that scene, doing a thing. Like sitting on a rock looking at me, or, you know, so that was a, it took me many years of inquiring into what is this and who is this and why is he here, and why is he not disappearing, you know? So through those years the relationship that unfolded, it kind of felt like a lover, like at the level of the heart. It was very intimate. You know, imagine a person of the opposite sex. In this case, it was a man who was just always there and never left my side and was very present and unconditionally loving, and I could tune into him whenever I wanted, you know, and then he would, he would also point things out to me on my journey and one day. Because I was always asking him who he was, and he would like laugh. He'd be like, ha ha ha. I'm not answering that question yet. You know? So one day, I asked him, I had been calling him the Mongolian said, you know, who are you? He showed me his life, and this was in a different moment. I was really stuck inside myself. You know, like if you are really familiar and intimate with these phases of growth, you can hit a wall and it just be like, I know there's something beyond this. I have no idea how to cross that bridge to get there. And the, the particular bridge that I was sitting at was like. Beyond the mind, beyond the mind that can conceptualize anything. And, and I, I knew there was something there, but I couldn't take my mind there. You know? It was like the mind can't exist there. In order to experience that, you have to shed everything you've ever known about yourself so that the nature of what that is can like, illustrate itself through your consciousness in ways that you've never experienced before. You know? So I was sitting there like, oh, banging my head against the wall. Can't get there. How do I get there? Can't let go of myself. Oh God, blah, blah, blah. So finally I turned to him and I was like, how do I do this? I mean, I have no idea. Can you help me? And he did the equivalent of like, oh, oh yeah, well, I'll just show you, you know? And he turned, I mean, and I thought, well, okay, I just had to ask. But he turned on a state of being. It was like he became a moving, Van Gogh painting or something, you know, and as soon as he turned that state of being on, I could feel it through resonance and just allowing myself to feel the state of being that he was presenting allowed the whole conceptual mind and everything that comes with it to slough off. And so he created this bridge in my consciousness between what I had known myself as up to that point and what I had tasted before. It turned out it wasn't totally new territory, but I, I didn't know that level of the reality of it until he helped me make that bridge. And then during that bridge. I mean, I still feel really moved and emotional when I think about it because he revealed the things, the practical things to me that I had been asking him this whole time, and he hadn't revealed up to this point. You know, he said, this life in Mongolia, we lived together and he said, you can call me Ade, which most people know as Ade Yogi. Not that he is well known, I would say, but he revealed that the fact that he was the first human on earth to make that leap that I had just made, he was the first human on earth to awaken to these levels of consciousness that now are available to us, in the collective. But he said things to me like, imagine that no one's ever done that before on Earth. All you have along that journey is listening to the foundation of consciousness and orienting to it and watching how the earth herself is an exemplification of that intelligence and being awakened both by the nature of this planet and Gaia and the stars and the cosmos simultaneously with what is hidden within and driving all of that, all the intelligence within that. You don't have any spiritual texts, you don't have any gurus, you don't have any teachers, you don't have any friends who've known this. That's all you have. And, and Adi means first, so, but he was like, I was the first yogi and he's just kept. Cultivating himself, you know, in the meantime and also outside time. And then he said some other things which speak to the intimate relationship that I've had with him during those times, you know? And I kind of didn't believe him. I was like, you, you've been showing me all these scenes now, and now suddenly you're showing me the scenes with me in a different body, with you in that life. I mean, I'm making that up. Like, that's a fantasy. That's just me putting myself in there.'cause I wanna feel close to you. You know, this is my mind, going on. And he laughed and I said, if that's true, what was my name? And immediately, before my mind had a chance to form anything, he told me my name. And I have never heard that name ever. I've looked it up on the internet, it doesn't exist. And yet it has meaning, like it has meaning built into it, you know? So I just reveled in that for many months. Like, oh my love, my lover, this. And then it was really, it probably took about a year and a half. And then he was gone after 14 ish years traveling with, and when I say he was gone, like, I don't feel a loss because he's integrated. He just isn't appearing anymore in a way that I engage with him as if he is someone else. You know? And I also have this awareness that it's not over, the cultivation continues and there is another version. So, so Sheila is really the primal consciousness that he was saying that he was attuning to along with the earth. And I recognized when he said, after just many years, I realized, oh my God, I've been attuning to that frequency of pure awakeness within all my teachers who were men. And I had a lot of problems with these teachers. Like I just, it was me. It was them. It was both of us. Just like, not, not really meshing, you know, but what I learned from was like, oh wow, they're holding this pure awakeness within them. I'm gaining something from that at the same time that what's not that is showing itself and. And then through my teachers up to og it eventually clarified to the point where I got to experience a peer teacher through him. And so I'm kind of now going, all right, there must be another form of Shiva I Right. Potentially available. And is that your heart's understanding of why he came into your life in this lifetime as teacher to that shiva principal or energy or to be with you again? Or what's your, what's your understanding of that? My understanding is that Shiva appears according to how each person can relate with that energy the most. Someone who's tapped into that pure consciousness is going to call in a form, that they can relate with. And because I have this devotional heart, you know, like total Scorpio qualities here where I'm just like, let's merge to the of everything and become one experience, the bliss that results from that, you know? I have had relationships that are actually real and because of that devotional heart, it appears in a way that's going to meet that quality of devotion for myself. So like the lover and, and his appearance as the lover, both in my psyche, but also in that lifetime, you know? And then how that lover ship applies to eternal. Qualities of consciousness, like always being there, unconditional love, fulfilling that quality of desire for love. Modeling what we're all looking for in relationship really, you know, and how the heart is at the source of all of our spiritual paths and how that shows up in relating with other people. I feel like he's been a real model for that, for me. And that's Been what's helped me to realize these levels of consciousness that would otherwise be, out of bounds for me. So these, I spoke about in your bio, your work in the tan realm and how, This is the embodiment of the stream of consciousness founded within Shiva himself. So I wondered if you could speak about, how you practice and live tantra in the way that you do.'Cause I know it's different than other people might, perceive their understandings of tantra and how that relates to this Shiva consciousness. I'm also curious if we have time to even get into a little more of the foundational understandings of consciousness that you're referencing for our audience. Thank you. Those questions go together so I can make the bridge between them. One of the very first basic principles of what I do, and I think I can speak confidently and say that that's not just the, the way that Tantra's coming through me, but the way that Tantra is fundamentally is that every single aspect of creation is divine. That means that when you have a thought that is judgmental, it is divine. When you have an illness, there is divinity within it and so that ends up being the goal or the model for where we're going because none of us are fully there yet. So the basic practice. That I teach, like everything that I do has this core practice, right? And the core practice is really based in the somatic experience, which includes all the activity that's in your consciousness, whether that's physical sensations, emotions, thought, energy, movement, all of it. Like capacity for awareness, capacity to lose awareness. So when those qualities of activity of our consciousness, our presence, the first thing on our plate is to cultivate acceptance and allowance. And that usually takes a while because that's not something that we've been encouraged to cultivate just socially, culturally as we've been growing up. That's one piece of the puzzle there is allowing everything that's happening for you, developing the capacity to be aware of it, actively engaging, acceptance and allowance through the presence of what is there in each moment. What is helpful and even eventually required in that is to notice what is completely inactive as a somatic experience. So that is often referred to as silence or stillness. Those are placer words because the actual way that the qualities of inactivity show up in relationship to our bodies changes in each moment. And so what you'll find is just these two really basic things. Accepting and allowing the activity. Feeling into silence is gonna show you where your consciousness isn't fully integrated. And that division point between the two things, these two fundamental things, is gonna illustrate where there's a potential for suffering in our consciousness. So it took me a long time of learning complicated healing techniques and shamanic techniques to realize it's actually really simple. You just need to go into cultivating acceptance and allowance, allowing the details that you're missing in that process to arise, come to the surface so that they can be included in acceptance and allowance. And then if there's any separation between. Silence, stillness. Sometimes that can appear as nothingness. Sometimes people call it void. Sometimes people call it lack of awareness. Whatever it is, however it's appearing, the acceptance and allowance automatically starts to bring them together in space. Until the whole of your body and your mind, your thoughts, your physical sensations are penetrated by silence. And it doesn't render you mute or silent. What it does is it takes hold of the activity, it penetrates the activity and changes its expression from incoherent to coherent. And that's when, when we move in the states of flow, insight, creativity, bliss, eventually. So. There's a whole bunch there that addresses your question on the practice. On the daily practice, it's like someone just cut me off in traffic. Can I accept and allow myself in that moment can I allow myself to have the fire a light, and you know, wanna yell at the guy or whatever? And can I allow that movement of consciousness together with silence? Because when I do, the fundamental patterning of that starts to shift into greater levels of beauty, and I don't know what it's gonna look like on the other side. I might think, oh no, I'm just gonna be a nice guy all the time. But that's not what I've noticed. What I've noticed is the flow of consciousness brings all the deliciousness. Of life as a way to express itself. We just get more creative and we gain more mastery about how to move in those situations in a creative way rather than just becoming like an impotent nice person all the time, you know? So it looks different all the time when we bring that practice out of just sitting meditation and into the movement and the flow of life, which is really where the creative edge is, you know? And that's the challenge too. It turns out I was just doing that for a long time, and then I noticed when I was working with myself or clients, there would be this like 20% of the time where I couldn't achieve this union with silence and stillness. So after investigating that for a while, I realized, oh, of course I'm not including the entity that is feeling the silence and is feeling the somatic experience. There's a perceiver there. You know, there most people call that the witness or like, what feels like me? It's me. Well, what is that? And so then there's this opportunity to explore the somatic spatial experience of what is me and what that even is and what that means, and then to include it into this integrating pot of consciousness. And when you do that, the fundamental feeling of self that is limiting gets released. The unlimited experience of unique expression of self becomes available. And that's where the creativity just goes. Boom. And that shifts everything from your state of mind to your emotional experience to the state of your body, and whether it's showing up with a headache or not, or with a state of illness or not. Can you give an example of that stage of integration with the silence and the acceptance, but then what does it look like when you add the witness self in a personal or professional example? Sure. I'll go back to. Let's see if I can make this practical in terms of the experience that I described with Addie. Yo, you know, in order for me to shed the aspects that I needed to shed, I had to realize what is trying to shed itself is not fundamentally essential. So that was intense because of course what was wanting to be shed was creating the filter for my whole life. My basic understanding of everything comes from the perceiver. Right. And it's experience. It's a built in experience. So, Oh, this is gonna, this is gonna get personal. So I didn't realize we were going there, but we are. So when I allowed that to shed, it was like, Ooh, what I thought I was is not the full picture. It's not that it was wrong, it's just wasn't the full thing. And then when this moving Van Gogh experience came in and showed, actually it's more essential than what was there now there is constant fluidity. There is no landing in one thing to the exclusion of something else. My own personal path, and you can see this in my chart, is like. I have the north node in my seventh house and I have the south node in my first house. So partnership is my growth edge. And that's another reason why Adeo presented himself that way.'cause it's my growth edge, you know? So after I made this shift, all of my relational container, construction, like within the perception just went dropped. And it, it was f three or four months later, or, or was it a No, it was actually, it took me a year to integrate that to the point where then I had to leave my 10 year relationship because I wasn't the same person anymore. I was more myself with a greater understanding of how that didn't fit into the framework that I had created, co-created, in my partnership. So that was, I hope, a practical enough example, but that was definitely real for me. And I see that happening all the time with my clients. Like there's a regenerative state, for example, that you can tap into through the integration of that deeper reality. And when, when the sense of self that is holding the construct of, of disease falls away the symptoms of what you're calling disease can shift immediately. So that's one example. You know, everything from, like, I'm working with this relationship with my sister. I haven't talked to her for 20 years. I realize, oh, this is the person I am in relationship to my sister. That gets penetrated by something deeper. It reveals what you are in a more essential way. You suddenly feel free, you're forgiving. Your sister calls you the same night. That kind of thing is very available within the experiences of my clients when we're working together. Totally. I've seen the same things in my life. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good God, that's relatable. Do you wanna share any of those experiences? It's funny'cause you were just saying the example you gave about your sister was like, oh yeah, that happened to me, my sister. It was kind of like a literal translation into my personal experience. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It happens a lot with my husband, i'll, feel friction between us and I'll go inward and I'll connect with the part of me that's behind The defenses, and I'll bring light and comfort to that part and release the pain and the defenses. And then next thing I know, my husband is magically kind and wonderful to me. Yeah. Okay. Oh, that's, it starts with me. That's so good though. I mean, it didn't use to be that easy, I don't think. I feel like collectively we're moving into greater capacity for that on an intuitive level. Even if we don't have, I mean, I'm, you might have framework for it, you know, but a lot of people don't even have the framework for what's happening. It's just happening more easily, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. I'm wondering, Thea, like what does it really look like to live Tantra in this way? Really feeling and knowing everything as divine and, you know, what's that like in your life and can we practice that or that's two in our minds, or what does that mean to you? Yeah. Well, I think there's different phases of cultivation of that, you know, and I feel like I've cultivated that a lot and I'm also aware of my own limitation there. So I'm still in constant practice and it looks different at different phases. Generally, first what I've noticed is clearings need to happen. That can be trauma healing, it can be other lifetimes or what, there's this big phase where it's like you just need to do a bunch of clearing. And that requires really diligent practice, coming back to whatever core practice you have. In, in, in the case. I have one and I teach one. So coming back to that and being diligent about it, like not just when you're sitting, but as you're engaging in life. And then as you gain more capacity because you're doing that practice, you can see immediately when a sense of self that is illustrating something that's not essential, appears. It's obvious.'cause it's like, whoa, where'd talking about, I see you, I see you and I'm gonna embrace and include you. And that's an example of this movement because that comes with the experience too. Like that's not divine. Look at that thing over there that's doing that thing that's just horrible or stupid or whatever, you know? And then through the inclusion of it, you're actually making an active movement from that experience of. Self hatred actually, when it boils down to it, it's like self-loathing is appearing in, in one form or another. You're embracing that piece and you're not just bringing it in at the, bringing it in. And the acceptance and allowance is rendering it into what's essential, which is causing you to gain power and more capacity to do that. So the more that you do that, it's like eating, kind of returning the essential within what you thought wasn't essential. When you get to that phase, it's easier'cause then you recognize, oh, I can tell I'm in a place where I'm not recognizing the intelligence, the beauty in what's there. And I have included. And cultivated my acceptance and allowance enough to recognize that everything renders itself into beauty. So if I'm experiencing something as not beautiful, an aspect of me, of someone else, that's my growth edge. And I can go, okay, there is this capacity to recognize the beauty. And when I recognize the beauty and then offer myself to the process, like, oh, there's something here that actually wants to change composition, at a fundamental experience of self and order so that I can recognize and reclaim the beauty there. I call that in my healing practice. I call that the transformation paradox because acceptance is the agent of transformation. But most people come to counseling or coaching or something wanting to change. Right. And so it's kind of a hard sell to tell people, well, first you have to accept yourself exactly as you are. Yeah. Yeah. And kind of let go of this, wanting to change who you are because that's the common denominator in all of your problems is wanting it to be different. Yeah. The new element and healing factor of transformation is acceptance. That's something that I think is grossly missing in our development through every stage of our lives. And so when we accept ourselves, then we can change, but we can't just be like, okay. I really wanna change somebody to just like, pretend to accept myself, then I'll change. It really has to be fundamental, you know? And, and it changes you to get to that place of total acceptance. And that's the paradox. Yeah. It really, it's so beautiful. I mean, I cannot stop being amazed by the quality of acceptance and what it brings at every phase. Mm-hmm. It's not just something you learn in the beginning and then it, it's at every phase you have to learn the visceral feeling, experience of what acceptance is here or here, because the field is always changing. As you're integrating, you're integrating these dimensions of consciousness and then you move into the dimensions that you haven't yet integrated, you know, and the, the whole scene changes and it's like, oh, I don't know what this is here. And. Suddenly you're not accepting and you're like, whoa, this is a different experience of not accepting. I gotta find what acceptance is here. I mean, it's kind of the engine for everything. The acceptance. That's cool. I like, I like thinking of it that way.'cause Yeah, it does, like you said in the beginning, it, it makes it really simple. Yeah. There's like silence and acceptance and then, you know, of course it can evolve into more dimensions, but yeah, I, I find the most profound truths are always the simplest. Yeah. And it can get to the points where it seems really complicated, especially as you're entering into the subtle dimensions of consciousness down to the primal. And when it gets complicated, the best thing is to remember, oh, I just need to feel what's there. Accept it. Allow tune into what silence is here. Don't get any more complicated than that. And if sometimes I can't find silence, so then I'm just accepting and allowing everything that's happening. And that's the basic tool that will take you all the way everywhere. It's funny, I can feel in my system how, transformational this practices and how far it could take you. Like how, expansive you could know yourself to be. And there's this, protective ego part that's like, whoa, that sounds really uncomfortable. No, thank you. I'll stay right here in my comfort zone. Yeah, it's big. Yeah, really big. Yeah. Thanks for naming that. It's easy for me to forget that that's what can get sparked in people because it's such a experience of bliss and. I mean, I've gone through some intense processes to get there. It's real, it's real because you have to go through many experiences of death mm-hmm. Of all different colors that seem like they never stop. So that is part of the process. And, and the separate sense of self can sense that and any kind of reservation that it has needs to be included in the process. Like it's never okay to just, in my mind, to just push past that and be like, oh, you're just the ego having reservations. No, because there's something inherently intelligent within that reservation that wants to be revealed. And in order to. Feel safe to be revealed. It has to feel included, has to feel like it's allowed to have its experience. And then through that it will show you what's underlying it and that intelligence and the way that you named that too. If I could add this other piece, which is actually coming back to something that we were talking about earlier. It's kind of like this simple practice and just coming back to, it allows you to meet yourself where you are, and it allows you to evolve along the evolutionary spiral at your own pace, which is really important, right? So if you continue diligently the practice and you're evolving along that evolutionary spiral, eventually you will come to the foundation of consciousness itself and you will begin to live through your consciousness, the original creation story of all things. And that is where I was taken when Adio helped me make that leap. Like he brought me there as the foundation of that. And then, and then through the consistent showing up to that experience, how the whole foundation of reality comes into being, to create everything in the cosmos. And the whole of creation illustrates itself. And you not only get to see it, but you get to realize there's no separation between me and that. And at the heart this is, this is also speaking to like. My own devotional heart. You know, at the heart of the creation story of all things, there is one element that when you get there, the process of integration requires that you experience two elements and that you go through the process, which is now totally different than when you were trauma healing or healing past lives or whatever. You know, because you have to find the medicine of the basic simplicity there. There's these two elements. One of them is utter and total absence, like void, completely void, no capacity for perception at all. And the other one is the. Quality within that absence that awakens the first eye opening of the whole of creation. So that's the original yin and yang, you know, with that absence being the yin and the propensity to awaken being the yang. And so there's this incubation period when we get to that level of consciousness where they appear as two, and then they will show themselves as one, and then they'll be two again, and they show themselves as one, and they're two again. You know? So that really is, that is how, as far as I can see, like in neo tantra, for example. Whereas there's this focus on. Union, sexual union. It's really because the foundation of consciousness itself has reduced to two fundamental principles that when their union is realized, the mechanism for the creation of all the dimensions of consciousness and what is needed to culminate prior to the dimensions even coming into existence happens. And the symbolic representation of their union is lovemaking making. And the bliss that comes in feels like being in love. You know, it feels like all of creation is making love to itself. And how blissful is that? You know? So when You are diving into the heart. How that relates to, the practicalities then it's easy. Just like, oh my God, everything is amazing. Everything is ma, everything is beautiful and intelligent and happening for a reason. And you know, so it's really through all of our practices, and I kind of see this as this, this to me is the story of what we're all doing. No matter what practices we have, no matter what religion is happening, you know, or we're feeling inclined to, I'm just seeing them all as metaphors for one thing. And that is the realization of the union of consciousness at the core level that then penetrates every other dimension of consciousness creates this experience of, Totality, or you could say unity consciousness. But that is simultaneously distinguishing individuated consciousness so brilliantly that there's this coincidence between union and individuation. So there's a growth of individuated power, but that power is then connected into and aligned with how the whole dictates its expression. And me being a part of that, I'm just feeling like, well, is that why we're here? And earth being a place where, we have that polarity, we have the one becoming two and three and four and millions. To get to then know ourselves in this world of, individuation or difference. And that is, I don't know, like evolution for God. do you see it like that? Yeah, I absolutely do. I feel like this whole setup and the creation story and the way it is, and even ignorance and suffering, you know, it's all part of, well, when we go through this process, we are, gaining power on, on the level of beingness, and we're also refining, we're creating more beauty as that power builds. And that to me can only be a model for what. God is doing what all of consciousness is doing. Mm-hmm. And I see, you know, when I was listening to your, conversation with Virginia, it really touched my heart because I have this sense that we're shifting eras. And if you go into the heart of creation, you can see that shift in eras. It's like what we needed up to this point was a hefty dose of separation, because that's intelligent. We need that for a particular reason. It cultivates experiences that nothing else can cultivate. You know, when you have suffering and ignorance and. Big doses of that and, and we've been in that. But now, when I go into that primordial ground, I can feel the fundamental intention for these large doses of separation to appear in the whole fractal of creation is shifting. And it's like, oh, we don't need that hefty dose anymore. We're moving into a different quality, a different intent of God, the intent of God that will breathe into every other aspect of creation is changing. And to me that is what's dictating the shift of the era. And we can become one with that intention and then we can become what God is meaning for us to become. In this shift, and we get to experience all the bliss of greater unification because of that. And, the way that consciousness moves naturally as a result. I've heard Richard Rudd say that, there are infinite ways to learn from suffering, and that's the time we've been in and we're shifting to this different time where there's infinite ways to learn from bliss. Oh, that's so good. It gives me chills. Yeah. Lisa, how are you seeing the shift in, in the era in your life? How is it showing up in your personal life? In my personal life? Oh. Or in the world around you, whatever you're perceiving. Yeah, well, first of all, when I notice the collapse of civilization, I mean, that's, in one way, that's the most apparent thing. Looking at the world. At the world stage, I, I have this sense that everything is collapsing. And the intelligence within that is that it needs to, because these new qualities can't come in until that collapse is complete. That collapse in my life has definitely showed up, in terms of the relational shift that I mentioned, you know, and, so I'm working with that collapse. But it's like when you surf, it's harder for me to get in touch with this on the world scale because I feel like I have less capacity to touch the whole world. But in my life. What's happening is with the collapse of that big thing, you know, that relationship instead of it just crashing and burning and then we're gone and we're doing it, I'm staying with it. I'm staying attentive to it. You know, we're still living in the same house. We are co-parenting together. We're still working through anything that comes up. For us. It's like we're not breaking up, we're shifting dynamics. So can we stay in contact through that process so that we both can stay. Together as some things break down and other things build. And then can we be open to like, oh, we're different now and we're different now and we're different now and we're different now. And then over months it's like, whoa, I don't know what happened, but we're still here and we look totally different. So, it's felt really good to stay engaged with that process instead of completely cutting off. I mean, every situation's different, but the commitment to ourselves and our own process ends up rendering into our commitment to others and our projects in the world. And just the capacity for acceptance allowance to take us to a new place. Thanks for sharing that. It's, a thing that hasn't been modeled much before, right? Like it's hard to stay in that liminal space of kind of changing relationship dynamics and definitions without just, breaking it off right? Completely. Yeah. Closing down, protecting and, mm-hmm. Yeah. And how beautiful. It's one thing to do this work within ourselves, but to have a relationship with someone that's willing to do that with you in partnership, feels rare and unique and beautiful. Yeah. I'm so grateful for the people who have the willingness to show up for that and relationship. I mean, it's invaluable. It's invaluable to me. Well, Thea, I know we have to come to a close soon, but anything else that you'd really like to share before we go? And then I want you to share where people can find you and that kind of thing. I can't think of one particular thing. I do have this sense of wow, I could talk with you guys for a long time and I wanna know about your experience and I wanna know about your experience and let's you know. So that feels really good and creative. And also probably good not to enter into that space right now since we're closing. Where you can find me is a little bit of a conundrum because the frameworks of that have all dissolved a couple years ago and I have been in the process of recreating them one constant place where I am on Facebook, and that's Thessa Tara Sophia. I'm in the process right now of getting my Substack more online. You can find me on Substack, but I haven't had a chance to fully develop it yet, but I'm doing that right now. I'm also on YouTube and I haven't put a lot of energy into that. So right now I'm in this process of creating, a repository for all my work on Substack. So i'm gonna go through years, of course, material and videos and audios and stuff that I've made and transfer them into Substack and then I'm gonna produce new material there as well. So. Beautiful. Your name on Substack, is that how to find you on there? I think it's under Tantra Soma, and I'm sure you could find it by my name too. So, well, we'll link all of that in the show notes. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity to talk with you both. Yeah, thank you. What a beautiful journey you took us on. Yeah. I really appreciate it. I enjoyed that. Thanks. Yeah. I'm really grateful to know more about your work in the world, Thessa, and, I really appreciate how you could break down really complicated lifelong processes in the realm of consciousness, expansion and evolution and to, relatable conversation. Oh, great. Thank you. That's good to hear. Yeah. All right. Thank you everyone for listening. We will see you next time. Make sure you subscribe, like and share the video for more content!