Manhood Tribes

The State of Manhood ft. Ben Derrick

• Don Ross • Episode 14

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Join us as we dive deep into the state of modern masculinity with mental health professional and former pastor Ben Derrick. 

We discuss the crisis in manhood, the challenges facing today's men, and the necessity of adventure and risk in life. 

Learn about the importance of connection and community in revitalizing manhood, and discover practical advice for building meaningful male friendships in a modern world. Don't miss out on this insightful conversation!

00:00 Introduction to the How Manly Are You? Quiz
01:45 The Crisis in Modern Masculinity
03:32 Are We Facing Tougher Times or Are We Weaker?
04:06 The Smaller Story and Lost Adventure
10:08 The Need for Connection and Community
14:49 Conclusion and Next Steps

Want to know how you measure up as a man? Take our free quiz, called How Manly Are You? and learn how you can get better at being a man. Download for free at manhoodtribes.com/manly.

Don Ross:

Guys want to know how you measure up as a man? I've got a great resource for you. It's called how manly are you? And it's a free quiz that you can take to figure out how you stack up against what it means to be a man. And when you take the quiz, you'll also get some free resources to help you figure out how you can get better as a man in the areas where you would like to grow. So go to manhoodtribes.com/manly to download your free. How manly are you quiz today? That's manhoodtribes.com/manly.

don-ross_1_05-29-2024_150531:

All right, Ben, man, it is good to see you again, buddy. It's good to be doing this together with you.

ben-derrick_1_05-29-2024_140531:

Here we go

don-ross_1_05-29-2024_150531:

Here we go. Hey, I want to just go ahead and jump in and I want to ask you as a mental health professional and as a former pastor, just a guy who has worked with a lot of men. I kind of just want to ask your perspective on, is it really as bad as it seems? Like what is going on out there in the world of men right now? Like, uh, what's your, what's your, give me your finger on the pulse, you know, of, of kind of what you're seeing.

ben-derrick_1_05-29-2024_140531:

Yeah, it is. It is a cluster. I mean, you know, what do you, you put it in percentages, right? Is it 80% as bad as they say a hundred percent. 150%? I don't know the actual answer to that question, but I can tell you I believe that masculinity, manhood is in crisis, and I use that word very specifically because behind closed doors and even publicly. Masculinity, the wheels are coming off the bus and the things that are being provided to us as solutions are actually indicative of the original problem. So I would say a resounding yes, we are in trouble. Although I do appreciate there's a movement. like what you're providing and multiplied across the country and even across the world of men who are beginning to wake up, to stand up, to take their feet, to figure out, Hey, we've got to try something different here because this just isn't working. But I think if I run across a man who says, well, you know, things aren't that bad. Things are good. My story's good. I'm not, I'm not buying it. Uh, nobody's in that place right now.

don-ross_1_05-29-2024_150531:

he's either lying or clueless, right? Just something's not right there. Yeah. exactly. Aren't we all. So, okay. So what, what I, what kind of has been like bugging me as I've thought about this problem lately is trying to just ask the question, like, uh, Are we men today? Are we really facing like more difficult circumstances than men in previous generations? Or are we just weaker men? Like what's the deal? Why, why are we having such a hard time with life as it is at the moment? Or, you know, maybe it's some combination of the two, but what's, what's your take on that?

ben-derrick_1_05-29-2024_140531:

Yeah. I mean, wow, that's a loaded question. Uh, I'll tell you how, how I normally answer that. It takes me just a moment to work through it, but it starts with this premise that I believe that as men today, we are trapped in the smaller story by that. I mean, there's something. Epic, grand, big, challenging, gritty. That we're created to accomplish from birth. I believe we're given that job by our creator. I believe very heavily in the Bible and the story that it rolls out that we're all given a purpose. And that purpose is to serve the meta narrative, to, to move the ball down the field, through the pages of history. And what's happened to us is we've been sold a very small story that kind of sounds like, um, watch this, buy this, take this, that is the adventure. And many of us have fallen for it. Now, here's where I ignite my compassion. I think we've fallen for it because we haven't had very good guides because our guides didn't have very good guides, which is very interesting. If you get back to My grandparents generation in particular. I mean, these people, by the time they were 18 years old, were storming the beaches of Normandy. Uh, they come back and provide a very soft life of peace, one that was purchased with a lot of turmoil and trauma, and they became the greatest generation and the most quiet generation at the same time. So, as a result, a lot of our fathers were not initiated. They didn't have a very vocal voice. So many men today, like in our mid forties, we are actually accepting the narrative of the culture is that this is what it's about. We're living a Pinterest domesticated life. So the question is, are we weaker? I would say yes, but I don't say that with a judgmental tone. It's because we haven't been presented with the type of challenges that are very cut and dry. Good versus evil. We've lost our belief in the institution because the institution has failed us. So many of us are outside of a local faith community. I mean, it's a combination of a lot of factors, but I would say yes. You know, if a man knows more about how he likes to have his coffee brewed or what thing he's about to buy on Amazon, then he does about the overall purpose of his life and what his heart is built to do and conquer, then yes, you are a weaker man you have settled for. What I term the smaller story.

don-ross_1_05-29-2024_150531:

No. Yeah. I agree. And I hear that. And I think that that's, that's something that I have kind of been wrestling with exploring a little bit on my own. It's just kind of, you know, one of the things I talk a lot about here on manhood tribes is the just necessity of adventure in a man's life that men are built for adventure. And then in our world today, it seems like we have really lost that. Touch with that idea, you know, that, like you're saying, like our adventures are, uh, you know, how we craft the perfect cup of coffee and, uh, you know, like, can we line up our, uh, binge watching so that we can get everything in on the weekend, you know, like, and it's just like, you know, becomes kind of like pathetic, uh, you know, what, what we call adventure these days. Um, but it's largely because the world has been shaped for us and has shaped us. I think in a way that, uh, It doesn't feel like there's a big adventure out there anymore. You know, um, I, I thought it was kind of funny, you know, just a few years back when, uh, the United States kind of created for the first time, the space force, you know, like the, the newest branch of our military. And it was like, as soon as it was a thing, it was like, every guy I knew was like, I want to be in Space Force, you know, like, I mean, of course we do like, and it does kind of feel like, Oh, there is actually something out there that is yet to be conquered. And you can just kind of feel like this internal sense as a man of like something rises up and says, I want to do that. I don't want to be part of that. Uh, cause it can feel like so much of our world. Now is, is domesticated. It's ordered and kind of doesn't need us in any sort of sense to be adventurous. Uh, and I think that's to our detriment, you know, like we probably are weaker, but it's not necessarily for lack of trying. It's maybe for lack of testing, I guess, if that's maybe a better way of saying it, does that make sense? Does that kind of resonate with what you're saying?

ben-derrick_1_05-29-2024_140531:

said it perfectly. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, here's another way to think about it. Cause adventure is kind of a bastardized word these days as well, which is exactly what I think the culture does to great words. Just adopts them, bastardizes them, changes them. So they don't mean what they originally did. Uh, but we spend our lives, especially as modern American men, I can't speak for men across the world, but. As modern American men, we spend our lives mitigating risk. Like, I just don't want to take risk. I don't want to initiate sex with my wife. I don't want to have that difficult conversation with my boss. I don't know how to throw pitch and catch with my kids. So I'm, I'm not going to get out there and do that. You know, we try to mitigate risks so that we're not embarrassed and so that we're safe. I mean, we value safety. way too much in our culture today, which is a result, I think, of a lot of things that went on in the early eighties. But because we're mitigating risk and what we do with that, our heart just misplaces risk. So we find ourselves living these very safe lives and consuming copious amounts of porn in the evening when our family's in bed, which is an extremely risky behavior, especially today. I mean, the number of men that I sit and talk with that have been extorted either through text message or online because they're just tripping into this risky behavior. And I try to teach men that it's It isn't that you're just a terrible person or that you're a sexual addict. Your life is craving adventure and risk and you are not providing it in the right way. So you're going and providing it in the wrong way. The way that we were most likely taught as adolescents, linking it to sexual risky sexual behavior. So, you know, when you talk about things this way, there's, there's actually a valid explanation for a lot of the, crazy things we're doing as men today. And the valid explanation is not that we're horrible people. It's that things have happened to us to condition us to live the way that we're living today.

don-ross_1_05-29-2024_150531:

Yeah. No, that's good. So, okay. Well, in light of that, then like, what, what would you say that we as men need in order to be more effective at confronting our kind of modern challenges as men, you know, to grow into our world effectively as men and to confront that, like if adventure is a part of that, like what else, you know, would you say guys need to, guys need to be cultivating these things or possessing these things to really make their life work? Well,

ben-derrick_1_05-29-2024_140531:

Yeah, I love this question and I can't wait to answer it because I know that it aligns with what you're pushing out there into the world today. But I think step one is connection and you would think that's the easiest step. Like, Oh, well let's, let me just introduce myself to someone. But you want to talk about frightening risk for a man. You know, because part, part of what we've been taught today is that that needs to, at some point that needs to stop, right? Uh, you don't want to ask two questions as a grown adult male. Uh, can you help me? And will you come out and play? You don't want to ask those two questions because they're very juvenile and childish as our culture has sold them to us, that we should mature out of those things. And I say BS to that. I mean, you should be asking those two questions for the rest of your life. Will you help me? And will you come out and play? Those things imply those questions imply that there is a connection point man to man that we should be doing things together, which is, you know, to us seems very dangerous because again, it forces us to release control, right? Because that man might not like the things that I like, and God forbid he may ask me to do things that are outside of my comfort zone. They're gonna embarrass me. But look, the, the, the largest accelerator to growth in my life as an adult male has not been a sermon. It has not been a book. It has not been sitting around and soaking up information. It's been sitting with others and soaking up experience and that experience calling me outside of myself. So I always say that. Step one is to find a group of guys that are doing dude things, right? And that doesn't mean you're like jumping off a bridge with a rope tied to your ankles. You know, it may mean just having an IPA at the local bar, or it may be Frisbee golf, or, you know, there are any number of things that go on when guys get together. Uh, the one that I see predominantly happening in my area is having a solo stove in a backyard and sitting around it and talking about life. I mean, it doesn't get any more simple than that.

don-ross_1_05-29-2024_150531:

Right. Yeah. Although jumping off a bridge with a rope tied to your ankle sounds pretty good to me. I'm down. Whatever you are.

ben-derrick_1_05-29-2024_140531:

mentioned that because it's one of the things I would definitely avoid. I believe in gravity.

don-ross_1_05-29-2024_150531:

Uh, yeah, that sounds good. I'm for it. Um, no, man, I think you're right. Uh, you know, Connection and community, which, you know, obviously that's, that's all of what I'm about, uh, here trying to talk through those things here at manhood tribes and, and even just create environments for men to be able to do that, because I do think it is a, uh, it's not just a lost art. It is, um, it's actually kind of like an avoided art at this point in our culture. I saw this really funny. Uh, it was, it was, uh, very on the nose for the moment, uh, little. Short on the internet the other day that was, uh, it was making fun of this guy. He was, he was praying, he was down on his knees, like on his bed or something. And, and he was like, okay, Lord, I am, I am ready to meet the love of my life. And this like voice, you know, comes in, that's supposed to be the voice of God. And God says, well, I think you might need to leave your house. And the guy just gives up praying. And it's like, yep, that's, that's exactly right. You know, that is just the world that we live in right now. And you know, that's true in dating, uh, relationships, but it's true for guy friendships as well. You know, it just, it takes more effort than most of us are willing to put into it. And I think, I think for a lot of us, uh, it's cause we got lulled into a sense in high school and college that friendships were easy to make. And then we got into adulthood and they no longer were. And so we just didn't keep trying, you know, like we didn't put any effort into making those friendships and they just. Faded away and we kind of treated them like we didn't need them anymore. Uh, I think that's really unfortunate. I think it, it sets us up for failure and, you know, a thousand different ways, uh, that we don't have those kinds of friendships anymore. Um, so yeah, so I agree. Like, I think. I think that kind of connection and community, you know, building a tribe around you is a, it's a necessity. It is a like men aren't going to be equipped to be able to handle the world in front of them without that kind of connection around them. So, uh, we're on the same page there. So that's good.

ben-derrick_1_05-29-2024_140531:

No doubt.

All right, we're going to leave it there for today. And next time we will pick up with part two of what I know you're loving is an interview with Ben Derrick. In the meantime, if you would like to connect with Ben and find out more about how you can work with him as a counselor or as a coach, you can reach out to him at benderrick.com. That's Ben Derrick D E R R I C K dot com. We'll look forward to seeing you next time.