Manhood Tribes

Become a True Man w/ Mike Van Pelt

• Don Ross • Episode 31

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Join us in this insightful episode of the Manhood Tribe Show as we wrap up our 'The Way of the King' series with a special interview featuring Mike Van Pelt, a seasoned men's coach at True Man Life Coaching.

Mike shares his journey and insights on developing a masculine faith and living as a 'true man' in alignment with Jesus Christ.

We also dive into his book 'True Man, True Ways: A Roadmap of Discovery to the Masculine Heart,' discussing practical steps for men to cultivate authentic faith and deeper relationships.

You can find out more about Mike and his book at truemanlifecoaching.com. 

Tune in for a powerful conversation on manhood, faith, and personal growth!

00:00 Welcome to the Manhood Tribe Show
00:53 Introducing Mike Van Pelt
02:06 The Journey to True Man Life Coaching
05:54 Challenges and Insights in Men's Ministry
09:36 The Importance of Men's Groups
15:48 Writing True Man, True Ways
25:01 The Roadmap to the Masculine Heart
41:45 Final Thoughts and Where to Find More

Want to know how you measure up as a man? Take our free quiz, called How Manly Are You? and learn how you can get better at being a man. Download for free at manhoodtribes.com/manly.

Guys, welcome to the manhood tribe show. My name is Don. I'm your host. It's so good to be with you now here at the beginning of the year. And while it's the beginning of the year, we actually have just wrapped up a series here on the manhood tribe show called the way of the king. Where we were really talking about. What does it look like to develop a masculine faith? How did those of us who choose to follow Jesus, do that in a way that still feels like being a man. So, if you haven't listened to that series, I would encourage you to go back and check out some of those episodes. But today we're going to kind of put a bow on those things. By finishing up with an interview from Mike van pelt. Mike is a speaker, an author, and a men's coach at true man life coaching. And he has worked with men's groups and men in various settings for most of his life and professional career, but he's also written a book called true man, true ways. A roadmap of discovery to the masculine heart that I think is going to be a big help to you guys, as you think about starting the new year and some ways to kind of reflect on how to develop a masculine faith. So with that being said, let's jump into my interview with Mike van pelt.

Don:

All right. Mike van Pelt. Welcome to the show, man. Glad to have you here.

Mike Van Pelt:

Don, thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat with you today.

Don:

Yeah. I think this is going to be a really good conversation. So, uh, the folks who've been following the manhood tribe show, uh, know that for the past several episodes, we have kind of been diving into just what it looks like to have a masculine faith, you know, as a man, what it really looks like to follow Jesus. Um, but also just to develop it. Yeah. As a man, you know, how do those two things really work in tandem? And I'm excited about having you on the show today. Cause I know that's a, that's a real passion of well. Um, you have started up true man life coaching. So why don't you just tell us a little bit about like what that is as a style of coaching and kind of how you got into it.

Mike Van Pelt:

Well, true man, life coaching, the whole true man piece of it, that, that piece that's, uh, Jesus Christ walk on earth as a true man. Now that really began as a men's small group. We wanted to, uh, I don't know, uh, name our group. We didn't feel like another iron sharpens iron needed to be out there. We were looking for something unique identifier. And so we went with true man primarily because we felt like Jesus was the ultimate role model. And being the true man i really identified that and so the this whole concept really began in men small group and. You know anybody that's ever been involved in a leader in men small group knows that. You're essentially doing it, whether you realize it or not. You're really doing men's coaching is precisely what's going on. So I had been involved in really in this men's, uh, arena for, for quite some time. But what I noticed, uh, when I tried to go out and become an entrepreneur was I originally was doing some business consulting. And although what I had was a doing resonated with me, it didn't resonate with me in the same way that. You know, going to my men's group did, or, you know, having the, these deep conversations and what I came to realize was, is that there are a lot of people that do business consulting and they can put in great programs and all these different things. But if, if, if you didn't show up, uh, and didn't want, you didn't have a passion, you didn't have a vision, you didn't have purpose in your life. It didn't matter what the system was. And, uh, and in so many ways, what I was seeing was what I was going through was. You know, my heart and mind had to be right in order for me to show up in my business anyway. And so I began thinking about after a weekend men's retreat that really changed my life is like, where do these men go for that? You know? And, and that's really where the, the journey began for me to try to figure out how to build A place where, where men could go and really work through this essentially chaotic world that's going on. And so that was really the birth, uh, back in 2019, uh, after a men's retreat, that's really where a lot of these ideas began to be. Birth and the podcast began and how can we go help men? How can we go fight for the hearts of men really, really began to take mold. So that, that's, that's really how it began.

Don:

No, that's awesome, man. I love hearing that story. Uh, I think, You and I probably share a lot of commonality in that regard in terms of just our, our passion for, um, reaching and connecting men. Um, but you know, also one of the things I'd love to ask you, just kind of hearing some of that is, uh, has it, has it been your experience? I probably know the answer to this question even as I ask it, but has it been your experience that that kind of thing that you're talking about available? In the church and guys just weren't taking advantage of it or it just wasn't there. And like, like what's your experience and why do you case?

Mike Van Pelt:

You know, Don, this is such an interesting question. So my wife and I, um, uh, Well, after we first got married a year after we got married, my wife took a job in Houston, Texas, and we lived there for nine years and we had no family or friends. And, and, uh, and so it was a great, personally, I think it was a great way to start a marriage because we were dependent on each other. But ultimately our, our kids were born in the Houston area and we kind of looked at each other and all of a sudden, you know, Being far away from family didn't seem like such a practical idea. So we, we, um, we God really placed us in this position. We, we moved to, my wife took a job in Spartanburg, South Carolina. And, um, the reason that's important is we were 45 minutes away from her And, you know, so the first thing we did Uh, one of the first things we did and it's kind of funny, I guess we're an anomaly. We showed up at a Uh church, I grew up in the lutheran church and we'd spent Uh got married in a lutheran church, and so we went down to a lutheran church and just walked in and said hey, we're here and um We joined the church and what the pastor found interesting at the time was they were really trying to build up a contemporary service And I told him well, you know Gosh, in Houston, we'd gone to some very large churches and that had contemporary services and he really wanted to pick my brain. And so, um, as you know, when you're involved in a church and you say, yes, there's a, they just keep asking you. And what's interesting is one of the things I noticed about that church was that they had a men's group. But right, it was the older men's group. So weren't a lot of young guys there. And I said to the pastor, I made the mistake, right. Of, of, uh, offering him something. I said, um, and it did turn out well, I said, Hey, is there a young men's group? And he's like, no, as a matter of fact, there's not, would you like to head that up? And so we started that. And that was what's interesting about that was, you know, we, I had no idea what I, this is long before the whole true man thing even began. And I had no, Experience starting a men's group. I didn't know what I was doing. And I, I said to the pastor, what do you recommend? And he gave us a book and we kind of started down that road. And, uh, so that was really my foray into it. And what's interesting is there was a, uh, kind of a yin and yang that went on in that group. There were some guys that really wanted it to be a true Bible study, like Sunday school. And then there was a group of us that were like, no, um, And we, you know, we want to do some other things. And so we did pick a local, um, boys home charity and we did a lot of stuff with them. And that was awesome because those kids didn't have any man in their life. That's why they were at the boys home really. But you know, what I've seen with churches is it really comes down to. In a lot of cases, how involved does a pastor want to be in men's ministry? How does he want to raise up men in the church? And some pastors are, you know, we'll go that route and some won't. That's not a knock on pastors, by the way, they have an incredibly noble job. And so you'll see men's ministries across the board that I believe come become Bible study sometimes. And that. is important. You know, as we're recording this, I just came from my men's group and we do a tremendous amount of study in the Bible. However, my, a lot of the men's groups I've been a part of, we really get into intimate subject matter and we talk about what's going on in our lives and then we, you know, bring in scripture that way. And what I found is that Men want crave and desire a safe place to go talk about what's going on in their life because they don't get it any other place, you know, they just don't get it any other place. And the fact of the matter is, is that there are so many heavy things in our lives, whether it's our marriage, our children, our relationships, our jobs. And it's like, where do you go to talk about that? And when I say talk about it, I'm not referring to it. As a gripe session, that's not what it is. It's just a place to. You know, all of these things are so weighty, they're so weighty in our world and, you know, we'll walk around and we'll carry that weight around. But what do you do with it? What do you really do with it if you want to have a life of freedom and more? And a lot of times you're going to have to work through that. And I think what these groups provide is a safe place. To do it. And so the, the success I've had with men's groups has actually come outside of the church walls. And I think part of that is, you know, we don't have to, um, report into anybody. Is it a Bible study? Is it a Sunday school thing? We just have the freedom to maneuver around and go much deeper into these topical areas. And the beautiful part about it, I will say is, you know, The Holy Spirit is in the middle of all of it, whether we're at church or not, and scripture tells us that, you know, we're two or more gather, you know, and so, you know, a Bible doesn't need to be present for the Holy Spirit to be there. The Bible doesn't need to be present for us to talk about. Christ, it's an important aspect of it, but there are a lot of topics that I found that men Want to talk about and and that's why I think men small groups are so critically important.

Don:

that's great. I hear what you're saying. And I think this is, um, Yeah, without going too far off topic, I think this is a pretty big just kind of challenge to men's ministries and general is, is the reality of what you're saying of like the Holy, the Holy Spirit is present, even when the Bible is not, you know, and that doesn't mean that like we're, we're going. Outside of what biblical Christianity means if we're not doing a direct Bible study. Um, but you're right. That guys need an opportunity to be able to dissect their lives in companionship with other men and the Holy spirit. And sometimes you need scripture to do that. And sometimes you don't, and that that can be okay. Right. okay to do it both ways.

Mike Van Pelt:

Yeah Yeah,

Don:

really afraid of kind of giving permission to that second category. Um, and, but I think in, in, in that, Out of that fear, uh, we're missing out on some things, you know?

Mike Van Pelt:

well Yeah, and I think it's I think it's this opportunity what it affords is to to go out into deeper waters Man, we're not going to, we're not going to sit in the waiting pool today. We're going to have a discussion about marriage and, and what it means for our lives. And we're going to go out into some deep water. And if you want to participate, you can participate. If you just want to listen, you can listen. And, um, you know, the, the reality is there are a lot of topics that I found that have touched our lives. Not the least of which is when we grow up. And by the time we're adults and we're in. You know, find ourselves sitting in a church piece someplace. We've gone through some stuff and a lot of that stuff resonates from our childhood that we've never dealt with. Some of it is some really ugly, nasty stuff. And, um, so how do you deal with that? And the reality is everybody in the church is broken one way or another. We're all looking for healing. How we, how are we going to receive that? And you know, what helped me was I was a Christian. I've been a Christian all my life. Wasn't really an option in my house, you know, grew up in the Lutheran church, baptized when I was a baby, you know, a few days old. And, but what I didn't understand, and I think this is really, really important. And this is where the men's retreat that really changed my life comes into play was. Intimacy with Christ. So you can go to church your entire life and not be intimate with Christ. And I think this is really, really important because what I found was God was really calling me into that personal relationship that I did not know was available. And I, you know, I found that a lot of people, you know, have found that to be. True as well. And the minute I realized that it was available and God wanted me to show up as his beloved son and be his beloved son and call him father. It was like, man, it was like the weight of the world lifted off me. And I can tell you over the last five and a half years since I really, um, had that conversation with Christ, my world has changed. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm not saying I've arrived. I'm a work in progress. We always are under construction. But what I'm saying is, is that I know who's I am. I know who's really in control of this deal. And it ain't me. And I think the sooner that guys Begin to know that and have that, um, epiphany in their lives. However, they get there. Um, I, I think the better off they're going to be. And I think one great way to learn that again is through being around other men, you know?

Don:

Yeah, that's fantastic. Okay. So in addition to, uh, your true man life coaching that you do, you also have a book that you have written that is coming out I believe called true man, true ways, a roadmap of discovery to the masculine heart. So. before we kind of pick apart the book just a little bit, you know, you, you've got this phrase true man, uh, and your life coaching and your book title. us, you know, I, I'm, you've probably unpacked it a little bit already, but you know, in a, in a nutshell, like, what does that mean in your, uh, in your view to be a true man?

Mike Van Pelt:

Yeah. It's interesting. Uh, so true man, right out of the Bible is Jesus Christ walk on earth as a, as a true man. Why is that important? Well, he's the ultimate role model. He's the ultimate role model. Can we be like Jesus? Well, we can aspire to be like Jesus, but he lived a sinless life. So that's rather difficult to do. Um, however, he provides us, uh, all the role modeling that that exist. And so I did. What I've come to understand was originally people would ask me, they're like, well, how do you define true man? And I realized that how I define it wasn't as important as how you define it or how somebody else defines it. I can give you virtues. I can give you things. Um, yeah. You know, I, a lot of times I look back at the fruit of the spirit and I'm like, well, if you have all these things, you probably a true man, right? But the reality is, and here's what I, I do love, and this is about as far as I take it. And then I allow everybody else to define it for themselves. If you're familiar with the series, the chosen, which I absolutely love. And this just totally sticks out in my mind. We've all read the red in the Bible. You know about, you know, um, Jesus showing up on the shoreline and Peter and them are fishing and he says, you know, throw the net, cast the net out on the right side of the boat and all the fish show up. Right. But if you've ever seen the show, the chosen number one, the guy that plays Jesus is amazing. I strongly recommend watching the show. The chosen, but that series is so incredible. The guy that plays Jesus is so incredible. And there's that moment where. You know, they're out fishing and, and, and Jesus says, you know, casting it out in the right side and they're just blown away that all these fish are jumping on their boat. And the way he said, follow me, follow me. And we've read this dozens of times. And really, to me, really, to me, that summarizes what a true man is and needs to do. Just follow Jesus. If you follow that, you have an opportunity to be a true man. But ultimately I lay out. And in the book I tried to do this. Hey, what worked for me? What what are some things that I put in place? You know, whether it was goal setting or or developing a purpose and a vision and and being authentic and real Um and working on my leadership all of those things were like attributes that You know we're in the bucket that help me develop what i consider to be my true man definition but i when i lay all this out i'm laying it out and say hey. You decide what a true man is for you. And I think that's important, an important aspect of coaching as a whole because I've heard other coaches say and it's just like makes me grip my teeth when I hear it You know, I fix people or I fix fix you use this term fix. I fix absolutely nobody. I can't It's that the only person that can fix anybody is you i can help you ask you know i what i do ask the questions listen and ask the questions and then you develop you and i think that that's what makes i think that's what makes good coaches i think that's what makes good leaders i think that's what makes good parents and i don't think we have enough listening going on in our culture. Feels like there's a lot more shouting and fixing, trying to fix things going on than there is listening to what people want. And so, um, you know, that's so I, the whole idea of true, man, I kind of let people. Determine that for, for themselves. And it's a lot of fun to see them define it for themselves.

Don:

Yeah, that's really good. I love what you're saying about, uh, about listening. One of the things that, uh, that we do within the context of manhood tribes, we put a pretty big emphasis on listening, both on listening to each other and listening to the voice of God.

Mike Van Pelt:

Yeah.

Don:

But, you know, we, we try to say explicitly, uh, are pretty terrible at giving advice, you know, when it, to giving advice, like we love to do it, you know, men are quick to jump in an easy fix, rarely do those. of advice actually lead to real life transformation. You know, my kind of way of thinking about it is like if a man knew how to solve his problems, he would have done it already. You know, he doesn't need your quick fix solution to try to attempt it. You know, it just, it just doesn't work, especially when it comes to the the bigger and deeper areas of our lives. And so I love what you're saying about, uh, we, we, we have to be We've got to really put the emphasis on listening. We need to listen well to one another. We need to listen to the voice of God and figure out how to move forward in those things, you know, not in just our quick fixes. So, uh, yeah, that's great. That's, uh, that's fantastic. So, okay. So kind of with that in mind, then like what prompted you to want to write the book, like. Moving from coaching to book writing, like, you know, there's a lot of people who do that, but you know what, in particular, if, if your model, you know, of coaching is focused on listening, you know, writing a book is not about listening. Um, so like what prompted you to want to be able to share what you have to say kind of in that format? How do you think that

Mike Van Pelt:

No, I guess, I guess I'm crazy. That's, that's the, yeah. You know, it's interesting. Um, as I began my coaching experience, uh, we, As a family had, um, uh, a move in store for us during COVID. My wife's position was eliminated with the company she was with. And we had to move and we're now just outside of Atlanta, Georgia. And, um, when we moved here, that's when the big transition occurred for me. And the funny thing of it was, is that was just after COVID. And I went through this whole process of, should I go out and network in person or should I be online? And. Oddly enough, I was out networking person and this one guy goes, um, Hey, have you found such and such a group online for networking? And I'm like, no, and but one thing led to another because I met people in that original networking group. And the next thing you know, you know, I'm off down a different path. And it was through that networking. I met a guy that was doing some self publishing and, um, this particular Person just, um, really inspired me and made me feel like, well, it was possible for me to write a book. And the reason that I, I think that I even thought it was possible was, you know, I'd already ventured down this path of podcasting. And what was interesting was the podcast really happened by. And what I found with the podcasting was that I was gaining a tremendous amount of confidence. I didn't know was available. And in all of that, I found that God had given me a gift that I didn't know was available. And as a result of that, it made me go when somebody said, Hey, I love what you're doing. We should do a book around this. And I'm like, yeah, we should do a book around this. And so the, the, the seed was, was planted and, uh, I did go down that path. Now, the funny thing, well, it wasn't funny at the time. Um, the original manuscript that I Had written I had placed on an external hard drive along with all of my old podcast stuff and the hard drive, well, it died. And, um, it was, um, there were two or three really difficult days in there. Like what now, what do I do?

Don:

bet, man. Wow.

Mike Van Pelt:

Fortunately i had saved a couple of chapters and so i was able to go back and kind of recreate the wheel so to speak but i had to but i essentially had to start from scratch but the purpose of writing the book was i wanted to talk about the true man story and how it started. And, you know, so, you know, we call the book true man, true ways, the ways are laid out in the chapters of the book. And I say a roadmap of discovery to the masculine heart. And here's where the roadmap idea came from. So, uh, I give all credit to my buddy, Paul Bailey, back in Spartanburg, South Carolina, because when we started, Uh, when we met, we started our true man group and Paul and I, um, we quickly realized that we had a lot in common. And so it wasn't uncommon for him to send me a text or me to send him a text and said, let's go grab coffee. Now for a lot of people going to grab coffee means we are going to go down to the corner Starbucks and grab a cup of coffee for Paul and I, what that meant was, We're going to hop in the car. We lived 18 miles from the North Carolina border. Um, which as we record this, I just want to say blessings to all of those people in the upstate of South Carolina and Western North Carolina praying for you. I'm very familiar with a lot of those roads and places I'm seeing on the news and it breaks my heart, but Paul and I would take about an 18 mile drive up to a wonderful little coffee stop coffee shop in Columbus, Columbus, South North Carolina. Ironically called open road coffee, um, which is the epic name for a road trip. And so our, we would take these road trips to go get coffee and the road trips weren't about the coffee. The road trips were about doing life and it was about the conversation. The coffee was great by the way, but it was about building those relationships. And, and really it was a way of us penciling in time margin. I like to refer to it where we just talked about life. And so the whole idea of the roadmap became, and I kind of make a lot of comments about cars and taking road trips and stuff like that. Um, That's that that's where the book title really came from and and because my thoughts were okay life is about doing the right things that you need to do whether it's you know having. Setting goals and creating goals and having a vision and a purpose in those types of things but the one thing that i think we do a really not a great job of his building relationships. And so, you know, that was the whole idea of the road trips and, you know, was building those relationships. And I think that these are things that as men, we need to talk about in our lives. You know, many of us were, um, we've had to figure out relationships on the fly, you know, and so part, you know, that was part of the building out. The book was, um. You know, Hey, what did I learn from everything that I've gone through at this point in my life? Because like many men, I spent a lot of time going, why in the heck is this happening to me? You know and sometimes just really being upset with god that that was going on in my life at that point And um, i'm now at a point where I realize oh my gosh The good lord's been laying out some steps for me that I didn't realize were there And i'm just at a point in my life where i'm beginning to think more about my legacy And less about the crap that I did when I was young and stupid And I wanted to I wanted to lay that out and say hey, here's here's how true man got started And here's some fundamentally basic things I hate to say it that way but that you can do to take action on yourself And I think one of the more important things that I do In the book is I just don't write about You know goals or vision or purpose I check in with scripture in the bible and I say here's what the bible says about it Not in a preachy way, but I want people to know that when we're talking about, you know financial your financial um empowerment And your physical vitality that this stuff is rooted in scripture You know, your body is your temple. Um, you know, and so, you know, I think they're important. Everything I do, I try to check in with scripture and go, Hey, what does the Bible say about this? What does Jesus say about this? What is God saying about this? And that's my way of going. Okay, here's, here's my answer. And here's why this is important.

Don:

Very cool. Uh, do you have a, like a favorite chapter in the book?

Mike Van Pelt:

Well, I always.

Don:

I know that's

Mike Van Pelt:

Yeah

Don:

to pick, but.

Mike Van Pelt:

I always love telling the the True man story, which I actually get to uh in chapter three. I don't start with it I originally did and then I I decided to go a different direction And I love I love Talking about that because it was when paul and I you know How paul and I first met how we started the men's small group and then you know what came about As As a part of that and and it So much of it you and I would not be talking on this podcast today had paul and I not Um, and i'll say had the guts to do a one on one after we met at a networking meeting and sat down at a pizza shop And talk about life together, you know, and so It's not lost on me that. Um god's plans are Far more Than we could ever ever dream about and you know how far I've come from that meeting in the pizza shop to a guy that had completely lost his identity um and Didn't know intimacy with christ and you know was commonly um at that point, you know, probably Wearing a mask, posing, trying to be something I really wasn't to everybody, um, because I thought that's what everybody wanted to see. And, you know, now, um, you know, I, I appreciate the, I have a love, I couldn't tell you my story back then. Don i couldn't i couldn't tell it i didn't know what i did and in fact i didn't want people to know my story in some respects um you know because of some career things i gone through i lost my identity there's a couple of things that you know when you meet somebody you ask their name and then what do you do. And the minute you tell what you do then as human beings we start assessing all kinds of things. Oh, he's a doctor. He must have a big house, big car. Oh, this guy does this. He probably has an F 1 50. And, you know, we start making all these assessments. And the thing of it is, is I was making a lot. Of assessments on what how people thought of me because at one point i wasn't working i was going back to college i was a stay at home dad and and there was a piece of me that was like i'm supposed to be the breadwinner here i'm supposed to be the man of the house and i wasn't that and i couldn't even i remember going to an event with my wife and somebody coming up to me and said well so what do you do. And I couldn't even say anything done. I, I couldn't even say anything. And my wife had to step in and that was really prior to me getting involved more in, in, in some of my men's groups. But I was, um, I was really, uh, I don't want to say humiliated. I was really filled with, uh, Shame that I couldn't say to somebody, Oh, I'm the CEO of da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, because that's the image that I had of myself and, um, it took, took me a while to do the work to remove the fact that nobody cares anybody, what I do. I

Don:

Right. It's a

Mike Van Pelt:

they care, but they care, but I needed to care less about what they were thinking about me.

Don:

Right. Yeah. It's not really about identity to them, even if it is or feels like it is to you. And yeah, that's, that's important. So, okay. In the book, you, you cover a lot of topics that are, you know, some, as you, as you mentioned, that are kind of, uh, like The standard aspects of day to day, you know, a man's life, uh, just walking through physical vitality, dealing with finances, you know, just some of those kinds of things, but then you also get into, as you've mentioned, just some of the deeper aspects of what, what a man's life and his heart really looks like finding purpose, leaving legacy, those kinds of things. And, and I want to just kind of ask you a little bit more about this issue of the heart, because I think this is where. Most

Mike Van Pelt:

yeah, so

Don:

a little challenged. Why would you say that men need to try to go after and recover their heart and not just focused on the behavioral or external things that the world tried to, to kind of get us to focus on as men.

Mike Van Pelt:

many things that happen in a man's life and they happen at an early age. And, um, uh, you know, a couple of examples would be, uh, being introduced to pornography, um, and or, um, uh, unfortunately being, uh, uh, abused at a young age. And I, I'm always. amazed at the number of men that I talked to that have had one or both of these things happen in their lives. And I'm using both of those because it, I hear this conversation so commonly, particularly pornography. Um, and what happens when you're, uh, Touched by pornography at a young age and it amazes me how many times I hear somebody say I first saw pornography when I was seven, eight, nine years old. It's as if the devil himself has earmarked a certain age bracket because he knows that, you know, um, You know, we, we don't have the capacity to understand what we're looking at, but we can leave a traumatic mark. Um, but what happens is when you're introduced to those things at a young age is your brain goes down a rabbit hole that, um, it probably doesn't need to be going down. And if you didn't have a parent or somebody close to you that was really able to, uh, Talk with you or did talk with you about, uh, how to treat the other sex or, you know, what sex is really about. You may have a dark picture of it. And why is the reason that's important is it shows up in our adult life. When the relationship really matters and, you know, and it never leaves you. And in fact, many of us will bury these negative things in our life, hoping men are, we're the pros at this. We have mastered the art of burying our feelings or the junk that has happened to us, hoping It'll never show back up and it always shows back up and it really shows back up in our relationships. The people that were the closest to our, our spouse, our children. And so, you know, you look at the divorce rate now and for many years they used to say, well, the divorce rate is around 50 percent really hard to gauge right now because covid the divorce rate spiked. Um as a result of covid and so you see a lot of uh statistics But the point here is that a lot of relationships end badly And, uh, I, the first one to recognize, okay, sometimes you didn't get the right partner, you know, or things really didn't work out. But a lot of times things don't work out because there's work that needs to be done in order for you to build a, you know, more positive relationships in your life. And that's going to require taking a look in the mirror. Now, how do we know this is true? Well, statistically, uh, remarriages. Fell faster than the first marriage third marriages fell faster yet. And so statistically it just gets worse and and what that proves is Is that you can't run into another relationship thinking? Oh, it was the other person you're gonna have to look in the mirror and is that easy? No, you know i've had to stare into that mirror on many Occasions, you know, and, um, you know, if relationships and overcoming this brokenness, which is really what what's going on with our hearts were broken because of something or some event. And so that's going to require some healing. Now, you may be able to get some of that healing on your own. Most people, maybe they have to go to therapy. Maybe it's going to require coaching, but it's, it really requires an introspection of the broken heart. And I can look at a lot of things that happened to me when I was young. Um, I don't, you know, my parents were great people. I don't blame, they gave me what they could. Um, there were, you know, the, and there were other things that happened when I was young that just, they didn't show up until I was an adult. I mean, I'm 54 and I just had an epiphany on something six months ago, you know? Um, and so, you know, it, it's a lifelong thing, but I think the most important aspect that we can look at is ourselves first, before we start pointing fingers at other people and going, well, they're at fault. Are they, are they maybe, but, but, what's your role? In it, or as somebody said to me just the other day and I went, Oh, who was at the scene of the crime? Okay. If this happened to you a couple of times, who was at the scene of the crime? Uh, oh, you're right. You caught me. So, um, you know,

Don:

Yeah, it's it's Jesus was onto something when he was saying, you know, take the log out of your own eye first before you, you know, concede to pull the speck out of your brother's eye like it's, he kind of knew. I mean, he, you know, he knew as insightfully can, uh, that we are bad at paying attention to our own issues and quick to find fault in others. And, uh, yeah, you're exactly right. I think that's fantastic.

Mike Van Pelt:

Yeah, I think that's what the book really um, i'm not pointing the finger at anybody In fact nine times out of the ten. I call myself the guinea pig. I'm like, hey Okay, I did this wrong, but here's what's going on now

Don:

from my

Mike Van Pelt:

Yeah, yeah, and uh, i'll give i'll give you a little show. I'll give you or as I like to refer to it in the book You know, i'll give you a roadmap of of discovery and and all those things, um Critically important, but, um, we got to look at ourselves first. We have a society built on, um, pointing the finger at somebody else and not taking responsibility. And we gotta, I didn't grow up that way, right? I mean, um, I didn't, I didn't do a very good job learning about responsibility and it cost me when I was an adult, but, but, you know, we can't, we gotta stop playing victims in the world. We gotta stop playing victims and we have to learn to take responsibility first and foremost for ourselves and then our families and, uh, and take action. On what needs to be done in order to improve those relationships.

Don:

Absolutely. Mike, this has been a really, really good conversation. I've enjoyed just hearing more about you and about your work. Uh, tell us more about where people could go to find you online and find your work.

Mike Van Pelt:

Sure. Um, well you can always go to my website, true man, life coaching. com. You will find my, um, uh, a lot of information out there. You can get a hold of my calendar. Um, Podcast is on there. If you, uh, just go to true man podcast. com. Uh, It'll take you right to the the podcast and it'll allow you to click on your favorite podcast channel. And um, You know, that's that's where i'm learning. My best book discovery is coming from is the Is the podcast so if you hear me talking about on the podcast it may show up in a book again somewhere but um, but the website's definitely the best the the books the Uh, available for pre sale on my website and, uh, I'd love it if you'd check it out. I mean, it's, it's just, um, it, it, it's what I discovered worked for me and I would like to think it will work for you if you make the decision to apply it.

Don:

Fantastic. All right, Mike, thank you for joining the show today. It's been good to have you.

Mike Van Pelt:

Thanks Donna. I appreciate it. You having me on.