.png)
Manhood Tribes
Become the man God created you to be. Manhood Tribes is all about becoming an extraordinary man by building a life-changing group of men around you. Join host Don Ross as we discuss how to tackle the major challenges in men's lives and be the best man you can be.
Manhood Tribes
Why Churches Are Bad at Reaching Men
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this conversation with Chris Grainger (founder of The Lion Within Us), we continue our deep dive into men’s ministry and the broader men’s leadership space—exploring what it really takes to know how to disciple men and help them grow in their faith.
Most churches say they want to reach men—but very few are actually doing it well.
Chris shares his story of coming to faith without discipleship, the hard lessons that followed, and how that led him to build a thriving brotherhood of men across the world. We unpack the real struggles men are facing today—and why so many churches are missing them.
In this episode, we cover:
- The biggest struggles men are facing right now (pornography, marriage, and purpose)
- Why most churches unintentionally fail to reach men
- What men actually need instead of another Bible study
- Why men grow best through challenge and brotherhood
- How to step up and lead—even if you don’t feel qualified
-----------------------------
📝 Take the Quiz: How Manly Are You? https://bit.ly/3Pfx7SA
Find out how manly you really are and see where you stand compared to other men
📖 Get the Book: How To Be a Man https://amzn.to/4cm2epl
Discover the 5 Marks of Manhood and start leading with strength and purpose
-----------------------------
#ManhoodTribes #MensMinistry #Leadership #ChristianMen #Discipleship
Episode 078: Why Churches Are Bad at Reaching Men
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:00 What The Lion Within Us is and how it started
05:00 Why men struggle to engage with scripture
09:00 The biggest challenges men are facing today
13:30 Why most churches miss men
18:30 What men actually need to grow
23:00 Building real brotherhood and community
27:00 Stories of transformation in men
31:00 Speaking truth and memorizing scripture
35:00 Encouragement for men who feel stuck
38:00 How to get connected with The Lion Within Us
40:00 Final thoughts and encouragement
💪 Want to know how you measure up as a man? Take our free quiz, called How Manly Are You? and learn how you can get better at being a man. Download for free at manhoodtribes.com/manly. 💪
All right men. Welcome to the Manhood Tribe Show. I'm Don, I'm your host and really glad to have you joining in with us today. We are continuing in our series of episodes where we are talking about men and men's ministry and what it looks like as a guy to be involved, uh, in whether you're a part of a men's ministry or you're around a church that might be doing things for men. Uh, we're just trying to kind of get a handle on. What's going on with men and with men's ministry these days? So we're, we're doing some interviews with guys who are in the men's ministry space, finding out from them what they're seeing, what they're learning, what's changed about men's ministry over the years and why it's always been so difficult to do men's ministry and to do it really well. And today I'm, I'm actually excited to be able to welcome to the show a guy named Chris Granger. Chris is the leader of the lion within us. He is also an. Author, he's written a book called Unleashing the Lion Within. He's created an incredible community of men right here in my area in North Carolina as well. And, uh, excited to be able to talk with him today about all the ways that he is seeing God work in the lives of men around him. Chris, thanks for being on the show today, man. Really glad to have you.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Oh, excited to be here, Don. Thank you.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well just, uh, start out telling us a little bit about the lion within us, uh, what it is that you do, what your ministry does, and kind of what motivated you to want to get into this space in the first place.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we, we, we, we exist to help Christian men be the leaders that God intends them to be. I mean, that's it at the end of the day, and I got into it because I didn't have it, you know, so far as discipleship, you know, I got saved when I was 16. was because I was there chasing my girlfriend at the time, right? So I was not at church for righteous reasons and, uh, got saved, but no one was discipling me. I mean, zero. So I went to a secular school in Norfolk, Virginia and studied engineering and man, from there it just did chased my own thing, right? Just pursue what I wanted to pursue. How much money can I make? How, how far can I go in my career? Uh, and then I had to go through some brokenness, you know, a broken marriage and being a
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Hmm.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501father of two little girls and to figure out, figure out life and, and, uh, just, just going through those, those trials. And that's when I was like, you know what? My way is not working. So, um, you know, really leaned hard into my faith
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501still found it very challenging to find anybody to disciple me to, to, to be a mentor. So I, I just like, I was talking with my wife about a little over four years ago now. I got remarried and, and I was talk and we had a daughter. So I, I was, I had three daughters at the time and I told her, I said, I think God wants me to use this skill that I've learned a podcasting to serve him, but I think he wants me to use it. Uh, for men specifically, and she just starts smiling and she's like, of course he does. You're surrounded by estrogen. Like, you
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501you, you need some bros in your life, you know? I was like, well, let's do it. And we just started out as a podcast. That's all you gave me initially was a just, just send a message out.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501recorded some episodes and, and they just did like really well, and we're like, what
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Hm.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501world? This is crazy. Uh, so about a little less than a year into recording the pod, we were like, I wanna be able to talk with guys and really see how we can encourage 'em to walk with them. So we tried to figure out this thing called online, you know, uh, communities. And we, we figured it out and figured out how, what guys were looking for, and we built it. And it was kind of one of the field of dreams things. They came, man, I mean, and they came
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah. Wow.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501it's just been a little small steps of obedience, uh, from there. And then God just keeps opening these little doors. Probably the bit, one of the greatest doors he's opened for us is the Bible app, and we're, where I, I'm an author on the Bible app. I have probably close to 60 plans on the Bible app now, they're all for guys and, and they're just, they're specifically for men that it's, it's funny 'cause when I first started writing for the Bible app, they reached out. They were like, Hey, you seem to write to stuff for guys. I'm like, that's all I write for. They're like,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501How much can you write? I'm like, that's a weird question. Like, why would you ask me that? They're like, 'cause we have so little content for men.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Hmm.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Like, we have lots of women, lots of children, lot of unisex type stuff, but nothing like, it's, I think it was like less than 1% of their content was for,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Oh wow.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501for men.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501I got you covered. So I, we, we dropped two, about two plans a month is what I do.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Wow.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501it has been, uh, it's been just in incredible just to see how it's been impacting guys. So, so, yeah. I mean, we can get into whatever you wanna get into, but that's, that's, the lion's been on. It's, it's been, uh, a wild ride for the less. only been around for four years, but for the last year it has been crazy.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500That's amazing. Uh, I'm, I'm super curious about, uh, you know, the Bible plans that you create and just kind of what you have learned about men through doing that. You know, I, I think, um, it's a little bit of a, uh. Oh, I would say, you know, within the men's ministry world, it, it feels like men are kind of notorious for not being very good at engaging with scripture. You know, men tend to not be readers very much. And so, uh, what have, what have you seen in terms of trends or habits that maybe, uh, are, are myth busting kinds of things about men or, uh, you know, what have you learned about men and the way that we engage with scripture?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Man, I think the coolest thing I've seen is that guys don't need another pastor preaching to 'em. They just need somebody to walk with them. And,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501I write, I write is reflective, so I don't write command anymore. I, I, I did, but then I learned, I was like, guys don't want that. wanna know reflections, what God has shown me and how it's been impactful in my walk period. So it's stories, it's, it's, it's stories of, of application. And, and, and that has been, you know, and that's also the hardest thing to do because I gotta open myself up big time. I mean, big time in the writing. And sometimes people don't like it. And, okay, well it's the line's, not for you, but for guys who actually wanna see, okay, for this scripture here. For this topic, maybe the topic is fighting for your marriage. How do we actually apply the scripture? What does it look like? And, and that's how I write. And I think that has been why it's received so well. Uh, literally the series that has done has just taken off is called, I'm Just A Guy. I'm wearing my, I'm just a guy's shirt right now. And, and basically what, what I do with that is I ask the guys and the lion, what are you struggling with? Like, what, what would be of value to you? To, to, to have some, some, um, just to be exposed and to, to dig into, uh, in your own walk. And they just gimme the list, man. It just grows. And
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501I never run outta content ideas, and then I just sit down and I'm like, okay, like I just wrote one. I'm just a guy who's faking it spiritually. that was
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Hmm.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501I'm like, all right, so then I'll just sit there and, and, and pull scriptures and off of that, okay, how have I been faking it spiritually as a man? And what does that look like? And at this, it's really resonating. So it's not written like John Piper would write, John Piper writes like John Piper. 'cause he is awesome.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501I'm not John Piper. I'm like two degrees removed from Jed Clampett, bro. So I have to write on my level. But I think that's the level that's connecting with a lot of guys right now.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, uh, I, I'd love to ask just, you know, kind of based on, uh, the feedback that you're getting from guys there. One, one of the things that I'm just kind of curious is about from, you know, men's leaders as I'm talking to 'em, is, uh, what are you seeing in terms of the challenges that it feels like men are facing at the moment? And, and maybe in particular, like what are you hearing from guys that you feel like. Is not being addressed well in their church context.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Hmm. Great question. So I mean, the obvious, one of the big ones obviously, is pornography. I mean, we, I, I, there's not a day that goes by I'm not talking with somebody or getting some feedback or a prayer request from guys who are struggling with porn.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501the second thing is I mean, marriage is absolutely under attack. Guys don't know how to lead their wife. They don't know how to pray with her. Uh, they, they, they're just kind of abdicating that responsibility. They think that's the responsibility for a pastor is to lead her spiritually.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501so I mean that they're like the two big areas. And then obviously stewardship, like finances. I've talked to so many guys who have just gotten it wrong pursuing, you know, the way the world tells you to manage money.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501to help course correct in those areas, but man, that, that pornography and marriage, like just the sexual immorality in general, just some big areas that, that we see on a consistent basis that guys need help with and we meet 'em right where they're at. And we're, and we also not trying to tell 'em that, you know, we're a end all fix all. Like we, we just wanna recognize, hey, we know who the authority is and we wanna point you to that to help help you through the power of the Holy Spirit. Make the steps that you need to make for that course correction.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah. No, that's great. So, okay. One of the stats that I came across recently, uh, was something that said that fewer than 10% of churches in North America have an active men's ministry.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Hmm.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500What would be your take on why you think that is and why churches struggle so much at being able to be effective with myth?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Um, most churches are set up for chicks. I mean, that's just, that's
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500All right. Look, you're not gonna get any argument from me there, but I'd love to hear your take on. What do you mean by that?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Well, I mean, we sit down, we, we sit down and we listen so often. Now, uh, and I'm not a church basher I'm just telling you what I see. We sit down, we listen to, to good feeling TED talks. Uh, that, that very little, there's so many seeker friendly sermons out there now, but we're, we're not actually expository preaching the way in many instances. The way that challenges guys. Uh, we're singing songs that sounds like Jesus is our boyfriend versus actually worshiping our creator.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501it's just, it's just you're asking a guy to come in and sit down and, and for an hour or whatever the, the duration is. it's just, uh, we're just not connecting with them at all. And then we're patting 'em on the back. We're telling them to, to give us a check every month or every week. We'll make sure, make sure you drop your check off. Uh, pat 'em on their butt, tell 'em to do, you know, try to try better and come back and it just ain't working. Or either if they do have a men's group, it's like Saturday morning sausage biscuit. And we've got some former football player who like used to do coke off hookers. And it's like, I just don't relate to that man. Like, I, I get that, that's a crazy testimony and story, but it's not relatable to me. And, and I don't know, I just think we, there's, we just we're missing the mark in so many areas and the women have come in and they just, you know, kind of taken the ball and ran with it and, and that's why so many guys feel left to home.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500For sure. What, um, what would you say to guys about that then? Like, what do we do in the midst of, uh, if, if a man feels like that's what his church environment looks like, he's really kind of hungry for something spiritually, um, but it's just not happening within his local church context. Like what does the guy do in that place?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Yeah, you either gotta start or you gotta find somewhere else. I think. And I think that's it. So, I mean, some, sometimes you're not gonna fit right that ship, you know? But sometimes you may be the guy that can, and it starts with one disciple and one, you know, finding one Timothy or or finding a couple Pauls in your life that can, that you can do it with. And just be the catalyst of like, just get it going. You know, just 'cause they may not have. just, you know, maybe it's a blind spot. Maybe they've tried it in the past, or maybe that's most, like most churches, you know, that we've always done it this way. So anytime you bring up something new, man, that's just, oh, I don't know about that. So, I mean, sometimes you just gotta be that guy and it starts with his one-on-one conversations. And quite frankly, it may not even happen in the church. It may have to happen at your house or at a park or somewhere out. Just a, a neutral setting. And then as you figure these things out, then you can start slowly introducing it there.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah, no, uh, that makes a lot of sense. I think, uh, I think you can, you can chime in and tell me, uh, if this is some of what you see as well, but I, I think that a lot of guys hear something like that and, uh, and the immediate reaction is just, oh, like I'm not that guy. I, I could never do that. I'm not qualified to be able to do that. Like, who am I to go to my pastor and tell him that this is what we need to be doing for guys? Or like, who am I to lead other men spiritually? I can't even lead myself. You know, just there's, there's so much, uh, disqualification that I hear among men when it comes to doing anything for helping other men spiritually. Is that, does that ring true for, uh, kind of what you see and what you hear? Or, uh, how would you address that?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Well, I mean
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501literally were the questions I wrestled with for my, myself, myself, and which led to the original. I'm just a guy plan. And so I walked through five questions on, I'm just a guy, and the very first one is, who am I, man? but then I tie that to scripture based on, on the Bible who asked the same question. And so, for who am
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Moses asked that question, you
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right,
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501I'm like, when? of us would call Moses a punk. Like Mo
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500right.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501pretty straight up. He was a gangster. I don't, you don't wanna mess with Moses,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501bro, like he had the moments like, who am I guy? Like, are you sure about that? Like, you know how
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501stutter and how inadequate I am. So I walked through, I try to point guys like, I'm a nobody. I'm inadequate. I can't do this. All those things. Well, you know what? Jeremiah, Isaiah, Peter, Gideon, these guys felt the same way. And yet we
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501of 'em as like heroes of the Bible. they had their moments. So yeah, you,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501if you're feeling like, like you're not equipped and you're not ready, good. Because I think the dudes that are like, I got this. I don't wanna follow that guy. cause
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501full of pride. just full of pride, bro. I'm like, no, I don't want to go a God that's full of pride. I want a God that's submissive to the spirit that's gonna be obedient to what the Spirit tells him to do and is not trying to push some personal agenda. And I think
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501that right and recognize, you know what? He doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the call. When we actually believe that, then we'll take the steps of obedience.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah. Uh, yeah. That's, that's fantastic. I, I think sometimes, uh, I, I talk to guys and I just, I kind of wanna say like, dude, you just need to get outta your own way. Like, God's trying to do something. With you and through you. Like just say yes. You know? Like that's kinda really all it takes sometimes is just like, step up and say, okay, God, I'll, I'll give this a try and, uh, and see what happens. So it doesn't mean it's gonna be easy, but uh, it doesn't mean that when he's doing something like, um, who are you to say no? You know, why, why would you, why would you say no to God in the midst of that? So, uh, that's really good. That's, that's so encouraging. I, I, I, I love that story in particular about Moses. Um, and, and just, you know, God's kind of reaction is a little bit, uh, you know, Moses like, who am I to be able to do this? And, and God's like, who, who made your mouth? You know, like, who, who made your ability to speak? Like, I think I know what I'm doing here, you know?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501That's right.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500So, yeah, so I, I mean I, it just, it just reminds me that like, uh, we, we are not our own foundation, right? We, we are not the thing that we need to be standing on. And, uh, so I appreciate you just calling us to, you know, be reminded of the fact that like, God, God will qualify us if he wants you to do something, um, he will, he will enable you to be able to do it. He's perfectly capable of making that happen, so just trust him. Just go with it. That's great, man. That's great.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Amen.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Um,
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501That's it.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Maybe the, the flip side of that question, like in terms of, uh, speaking to men about, you know, how to interact with their, their church context, how would you kind of like flip that question on its head in terms of speaking to churches? Like what would you encourage maybe if there's pastors or ministry leaders who are list. Into this or, uh, just guys who have been involved in their church for a while and they're just feeling ineffective at being able to reach men in their context. Like how, how would you speak to them or encourage them as a guy who's seen some success with leading men in the way that you have?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501I think you gotta find a way to meet 'em where they're at. It's, and it's probably not the way the churches are thinking. I mean, there's a church that's close to us actually, and it's in Raleigh. It's a big mega church, and they're actually having a men's conference tonight and tomorrow. And, and I know how these men's conferences go, you know, they, they, they bring in some great speakers. Everybody gets fired up. We're gonna have some barbecue chicken, right? Or some chicken wings. There's
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501a bird will be sacrificed. You know what I'm
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501And, uh, and, and, and.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500slathered with something. Yeah,
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501right. That's right. And we're gonna feel all rah rah fired up. We're gonna be a lot of Amen. Hand raised and stuff like
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500yeah,
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501And then like, by next Thursday, bro, like, what happened? Like, it's all
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500It's forgotten. Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501And I'm just like, and I'm not picking on those churches. Like, I get it. I mean, I, I, some, I mean, heck, I, I'm a big part of, of, of serving in some of those areas, but that ain't it. You know? It, it's, you gotta find a way. I want to, and I like doing stuff. Guys connect elbow to elbow. Usually we're sweating and we're pursuing something like, uh, you know, it's gonna be hard to get 'em sitting around a room talking, uh, theological truths, uh, for an hour every week. But you can probably get 'em on a basketball court or you can get 'em to build a, maybe you're building a ramp. You know, try to give 'em a project that's meaningful that could go serve in the community. Uh, and, and then for. On the heels of that, start mixing in, you know, some conversations and some, and some, some, some insights and some truths. And I
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501that's a way where you're gonna start pulling guys where, where you want to give 'em a challenge and then meet 'em and then walk with them along the way.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500I think that's great. I love that. I mean, that's, that's one of the things that we talk a lot about, uh, at Manhood Tribes in particular, is, uh, just the value of a manhood challenge, you know, of, of being able to kind of call guys to doing something that's going to push them and then they can actually see results in their life. You know, guys are oriented towards. Wanting to grow. We want to be challenged, but we also wanna see that things are changing. We find things valuable when they're making a difference in our lives. And you know, if, if, if the guys aren't showing up to your weekly men's Bible study, um, it's probably because they're trying to tell you, Hey, this really isn't making a difference in my life. It's not that what you're doing is. Bad, but it's not really changing anything for those guys. So like how can you figure that out? How can you figure out how to do something that's actually gonna change something in their lives? And I love the way that you're talking about that, of just like, Hey, let's go after the things that are really gonna make a difference, not just for this weekend, uh, but you know, like last all the way through next week and next month, and for the rest of this guy's life, you know, how can we pursue that kind of change in a man's life? So that's great. Tell me more, uh, just about the line within, within us in particular and kind of like some of the ways that you get guys involved, uh, in your community and, and what it looks like to kind of be around, uh, your group of guys.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Yeah, man. Well, several. First of all, thank you. I mean, just for a chance to talk about it. But we have an app which is very convenient, and we did that because I wanted a platform. Where we could be with guys all the time. And let's just face it, man, like these, these little devices, they're never far from us. Like
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501just part of who we are now. So I said, all right, I wanna try to use this technology for good. So
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501got this app and it's pretty cool. So it's basically, it's set up. We, we own all the content and material on apps. So there's no ads, there's no people that are soliciting like legit when they're in it, they're in it for us, uh, for our material. And so what we, we start with is just a daily scripture and we call it a daily spiritual kickoff. And so it happens every morning and I, I have a feature in that platform where I can go live, I'll read scripture and then I'll, and I always talk about, alright, how do we simplify and apply this to our life? And man, we got
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501over the world. It's crazy all over the world. That show up to these things and it, and, and, and it's a great opportunity for 'em to ask questions but be, but be lifted up. So we have that, and then we have our prayer request space. And this has been probably the most surprising part. 'cause most dudes particularly like, I don't know if you grew up Baptist, like in, in the Carolinas, we got a lot of Baptist churches.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yep.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501in the Baptist church, man, it's all about that unspoken prayer request.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Oh yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501me nuts. So, so I'm like. the rule. You can come, you can share your prayer request, but if you share an unspoken, I'm gonna probably kick you out.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501you, I'm gonna call you out on it. You know? Uh, 'cause it's just not what it's about. And man, it's been incredible to see, guys, I'm struggling with pornography, I'm struggling with my wife or like, I've made this financial decision and it's absolutely ruining us. Guys are just being real.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501it's been refreshing to see that, and it's the busiest part of the lion. Uh, we have a weekly prayer huddle where guys just hop on a Google meet and literally all over the world mean the uk, Australia, Canada, they're all over the world. South Africa. It's been crazy to see how these guys connect. But then throughout the week. We have events for our guys and we call it the in the Lion's den. And that's where we have like a couple bible studies on, on Friday, like we're recording on a Friday. So every Friday we have this thing called Friday Forge. And what I do, and man, guys love this stuff, I just take a topic and I throw it out there to 'em and I'm like, alright, just bat around, bat this thing around for an hour. Use scripture. Use, use, uh, you know, things you've learned. Uh, as well. But try from a Christian worldview, like today we battered around, you know, how should Christians be responding to Operation Epic? Uh, fury. And it's like settings very rarely give you places to have conversations like that. You know,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501talking about things that are happening in and out. I mean, we will talk about stuff like, what happens if you commit suicide? Do they go to heaven? I mean, we, we talked about some heavy stuff,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501them a place to, to, to ask the questions. But also explore, uh, the insights from other, from other brothers in Christ. And, and in a way that like, I'm not afraid, I'm gonna say something dumb because I may run into you at the Mexican restaurant in an hour. No, we don't. We, we, we don't run in, we don't really have that. 'cause these guys, again, they're all over. But
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501the beauty of it. Just kind of bringing, giving those guys different forums and opportunities to share. We also have mastermind groups that, that meet every other week. So that's a, a little bit more of an intimate group, but it's just been very interesting to see how has shaped us as so much of our culture. But now how guys are adopting it. I've, I've seen, I know guys into Lion who've, who've deleted Instagram, Facebook off their phone,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501and the only app they have is our app. And it's like,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501that's really encouraging. You know? So it's just. Trying to use technology, meet 'em where they're at, and then we have live events as well throughout the year. But, uh, that, that, that daily in their pocket seems to really be what's resonating the most.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah, that's that. Dude, that's fantastic. I, I love that. I love the sense of community that you're building.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Mm-hmm.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500I love the. The raw honesty that you're creating a space for men in our, in our manhood tribes world, we, we call that getting naked.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Mm-hmm.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500It's just a, you gotta just like strip down, you know, guys need to see you for what you really are, what's really going on. There's just no way to be able to grow and heal otherwise. Um, and so I think it's awesome that you're creating space for men to be able to do that, to, to find that kind of honesty and vulnerability. Um, I think it's when we. Get out of the darkness and bring things into the light that Jesus actually begins to do his work. And, uh, so I mean, gosh, that's, uh, incredible to provide a space for guys to be able to do that. So, so thank you.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Yeah, man.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500What, um, tell, give us some stories. So just tell us some about like, what you've seen with men recently and you know, again, you don't have to name names, but like, uh, what have you seen in terms of the kind of transformation that's happening, uh, in the men in your community?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Yeah, man, it's been crazy. Yeah, so I mean, one of 'em, a couple years ago when we first started, joined because his wife had handed him divorce papers she was like, I'm done. And. is not gonna work for me anymore. And so he was like, alright then, uh, I'm, I'm gonna try to find some resources to get better. And so he started coming to our, our Bible study Weekly. Any event we had throughout the week, he started coming one year, uh, later she came in, uh, she tore up the divorce papers and now they, they are regular. She, she, every month we have a, we have a couples night, once a month, which is probably the most fun we have. Because the ladies are there and it's just, uh, man, you talk about, you know, uh, poking the bear. Like my wife loves to poke me in the, in that meeting. So, but it, we have a lot of fun. But she's there her her husband every month and like literally two years ago she had handed him divorce papers.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Hmm.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501crazy. Like, we had a, we had a guy recently, him and his wife had separated and he needed somewhere to stay. And like one of our members like, well, you're in my area. Why don't you just come on? And like, he went and stayed there. I mean, we. We have, we're having stories of, of genuine, I had a guy weekly, now they're just saying like, I feel more connected with you guys, even though many of 'em haven't met each other. Like, you know, flesh to flesh. I feel more connected with you than than I ever have with, with, with guys in my church. And I'm just like, alright, this is spirit led stuff. And now we got guys like, we're having our annual event here, here, uh, next month. And. Now we got guys that are like planning logistically, like they're flying in from all over the country at this point. And just because they want to be able to have that time of fellowship with their, with the guys that they're talking to on a weekly basis. And it's just been, it's been incredible to see, you know, how God's moving and like, I gave him all the glory. Like, I'm not smart enough to figure any of this stuff out. I just, I'm kind of building it and adjusting it as we go. And I mean, it's been really neat to see like, hey, um. We, we, we knew so many guys were asking for help with pornography. I'm like, well, I mean, I, I, at one point in my life that was a problem. It just hasn't been since, for like eight years. I, it just hasn't been a struggle area. So I don't have the expertise in that. I was like, I literally prayed one day. I was like, alright Lord, I need somebody who can help us in pornography. 'cause so many guys are struggling like that day. had a meeting in my calendar with, 'cause guys just top of my calendar now all the time. So my calendar stays booked out pretty, pretty regular, which is awesome. But that guy I had met with earlier, like, like six months ago, he runs a pornography, um, a ministry and he was like, Hey man, something just prompted me to set up a time to talk to you a few weeks ago
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Hmm.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501and I just wanna talk to you and see how can I, how can I serve the reliant? And I was just like hair standing up on my arm. I'm like, are you serious bro? And so and so now we have a sexual integrity support group and he runs a support call once a month and we have a forum and a feed and like guys are dropping resources there and guys. You know, they'll put in there, Hey man, I, I, I looked at pornography last night and, uh, you know, I'm feeling this condemnation. And, and they'll have immediately just a herd of guys just lifting him up, speaking truth, not, you know, not, not saying it's okay. I mean, we're, we're gonna
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501that's not allowed, you know, but, but we also gonna let 'em know no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, and we're gonna speak that truth to them. And man, it's just so many moments like that, that, that God's just intertwining and showing. And I think for me, for the Lion, that's been the coolest part. And just like the conversations and the, that, the, the true authentic relationships and, and then God just keeps opening these different doors. Like, you know, my buddies at Duck Dynasty, I, I, you know, having a chance to sit down with them and, and they're helping promote what we're doing. It's just like, alright, God, is so much bigger than me and like you, it, it's you, bro. And I, and I just wanna not mess it up. So just. And he's just showing us step by step and it's the impact in demand that, that, that gets me more excited than anything. I mean, I, I, I stay tired and run down 'cause I'm always building and creating and, and, and trying to plug holes. But man, it's the most fulfilling work I have ever done in my life, and I'm so thankful that he's given me this opportunity.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah. That's incredible. Uh, dude, uh, that's so encouraging to hear. And uh, I think just a powerful testimony to the fact of God is at work and the lives of men. And, uh, you know, I think, uh, churches I think are frustrated and struggling, uh, over how difficult it can feel to be able to, to reach and engage men. And I love just hearing from you like. Hey, it's possible, you know, like, uh, guys need a space. They, they need the opportunities to be able to talk about the things that are really going on, uh, to talk about how scripture and how, uh, theology engages with the real world and the things that they're facing and are being confronted with every day. And, uh, and they need other men to be able to do it with. And, uh, you know, like the ingredients don't sound like they're all that hard, right? But
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501That's right.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500them together in a way that men resonate with and relate to, um, I, I think is really important. And so, uh, you're, you're doing really well at modeling that. And thank you for just building a space for guys to be able to make that.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Yeah.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Um, what would you say to a guy who, uh, at the moment is, uh, kind of struggling in one of those weights? Maybe it's, uh, maybe it's with, uh, pornography or some other kind of, you know, vice or addiction sort of thing. Maybe it's his marriage is falling apart or he's, you know, he's, he's struggling and, uh, how to be able to relate well to his wife. Um, maybe he's, he's blown up his career or his finances in a way that feels like he can't come back from, like, what do you say to that guy at the moment in terms of who's just in that place of real struggle and hardship?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Hmm. Couple things. No, and I just said it. I mean, I think Romans eight, one. I think, guys, we need to get that tattooed on our forearms, first of all. need to remember, there's no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. So that moment we're
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501No, that's a lie from the pit of hell. No, I'm not, uh, you know, condoning your sin, you your sinner. Most of the time, most of the guys I'm talking to as well, it's like, no bro, it ain't the Satan. It's you. Like, you,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501you gotta get out your own way. Like you're the problem here. But then I, I always take him back to scripture and, and for some reason you asked the question, I taught it this morning in our spiritual kickoff and, and it was in Psalm 13. And King David says four times. Four times how long? How long? Like, you could just feel, how he just
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501He's just, he's beaten, he's broken. He, he doesn't know where to turn. He's just feeling rejected. Like, where are you? God, you know,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501you look at porn and or you're fighting with your wife, you can have those moments where you're like. It's never gonna be fixed. There is like, I'm in an impossible situation and you're, and I'm gonna tell you, you just may be until you invite God into it.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501you keep reading that, that, that psalm, I got it right here. It's like, but I have trusted in your loving kindness your has
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501and like, man, that trust in God doesn't mean it's gonna naturally just go better all overnight. And this is the hard part about trusting in God. 'cause his timing is not our timing. have never seen God show up early for something I wanted. Like it just don't happen. Like, I
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501I want him to,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500We sure wish he would. Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501he would. I'm like, bro, can we sync calendars? God, that would be
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah,
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501like, we could
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501a, an outlook sink, you know? but he's like, Nope.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501so I'm just trying to encourage guys, man, like, look man, that whatever that thing is, divorce, pornography, know, addiction,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500it doesn't
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501define you. He gets to and, and,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500That.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Having some, this is where we've also missed it. Don, I, I'd be curious what you think about this man. Jesus. Think about in the wilderness when he got attacked, he didn't respond. I mean, he could have just spoke to words and, and just like smoked, you know, the evil one right there. But he showed us better way and that is what it is written. And I think many guys in the church that definitely has not pushing guys in this area. But we don't have enough. It is writtens in our heart, man. And I'm talking about the, it is writtens that speak to the specific things that we, that, that we're dealing with. So if you're a guy and you're struggling with pornography or you're, you know, you're struggling with your marriage, better have some, some, some scriptures And John three 16, ain't it? I'm not saying don't memorize John three 16,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right. Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501have some specific scriptures. That address that thing, like that's why I talk
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501eight one. 'cause so many guys condemned themselves so that in the moment, man, you can just rebuke it not with what, what you think is true, but with what God says is true.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501we, I'm trying to encourage God's more there. Like, alright, whatever that situation is, financial stuff, well guess what? The Bible's full of financial, you know, insights and scriptures. How about you go get three of 'em and memorize 'em and then come talk to me? Because then we can start speaking the, the truth of, of, of God into those specific situations. And they're gonna be different for each God.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501think that's an area, man. I just think for, for guys that they're listening, you better have some dog on it as writtens, and you better start using them, you know, and, and,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501quicker we start being effective at that, the, the quicker you're gonna start seeing victory over these battles.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah. Uh, dude, that's, that's, uh, that's so good. I, I love that. And just the, the practical application of scripture. Um, you know, I, I think, I think some of the challenge there for men is that I, I think a lot of guys feel like I don't really know the scriptures well enough to be able to know what scriptures to turn to and that address those things that are going on in my life. And, uh, if. You know, I got some thoughts on that, but I'd love to hear like, what would you say to that guy who would say, I, I don't know where to turn. I don't know where to go for that.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Alright, so I know this is a Christian podcast, but I'm just gonna say BS and you guys can figure out what that stands for. like, like let's, let's just call it Bill Scion. How about that? So,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Okay.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501no, you're, you're full of it because like, I can remember, like, I can hear three notes till Leonard Skynyrd song. I know
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Mm-hmm.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501talking about deep cut Lynyrd Skynyrd, like, if you want, so this is just who you're talking to. Remember two degrees removed from Jay Clampett here. Okay.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah. There we go.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501this who I am now. So for guys like, well I can't memorize scripture and I can't, I'm like, no, no, you're, you're, you're, you're missing it. And you have tools out there. There's, there's commentaries, there's chat, GPT, there's all sorts of things with
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah,
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Hey,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500yeah,
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501struggling with porn. Gimme three verses that, and you'll find it like the, the
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501way we can find information these days, it ain't a lack of in of access.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501lack of of of drive to actually fix the problem.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501wanna sit, well, if I actually gotta do some work, like, no bro, do some work.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right. Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501every song word to a country boy can't survive. But you can't remember Romans eight, one. like, come, come on now.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yep.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501I, I just
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yep.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501but guys need that challenge. And then, so what I try to do with them in, in those moments is, okay, what is it? And then I'll, I'll try to walk with them. Maybe I'll give 'em two or three verses. I don't wanna give 'em
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501or 20, but just give 'em a couple and then,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501and actually put it to work. Like right now I'm working through, I got it right here. trying to memorize Psalm 46 front to back. 'cause that Psalm is very powerful and I struggle with. Uh, with anxiety at times, and it talks about God as my refuge and my strength, the very
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Hmm.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501in the time. So, I mean, I need those truths,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501work and it
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501frustrates me that I can't memorize scripture the way that I can, you know, songs from the nineties, but it's just, think that's just, it. It, it takes work. But the, but the, the reward is so worth it, you know?
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500That's good. Uh, you're talking about scripture and, uh, memorizing scripture as compared to memorizing music. I and, and ai. One of the things I've noticed lately is, uh, on YouTube, there's all kinds of now Bible music. AI channels that are exactly what you're talking about. It's basically like, um, people who have created AI music, which, you know, I know AI music is kind of a controversial topic, but, you know, take this for what it is, uh, that have just tried to take the Bible and say, how can I put the book of Ecclesiastes to music, you know, in a way that like. It would help me remember it, you know, like I could remember the song and by remembering the song, I'm remembering the scripture and I just think, you know, something like that is, is so helpful. I, I follow a, a few of 'em. There's one that's like, uh, Bible folk and it's basically just takes like books of the Bible, uh, and, and turns 'em into folk music. Uh, there's one that's, uh, I mean there's a whole bunch of 'em. There's bible, jazz and Bible country and, you know, whatever your genre is that you like. Um, but it's just a great way of saying. Guys, like there's tools and resources out there, just go find them. You know, there are ways to be able to get the word into you. Uh, if you will apply just a little bit of creativity and ingenuity, uh, you can make it happen. So,
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Man. That's
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500yeah, I agree with that man.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501that's how I learned the Fruit of Spirit was a song at BBS.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501And, uh, it is like, it goes the fruit of the spirit's, not a coconut. And like, I know like the, the dance and everything to that song. So like, it's crazy, man. But I mean, stuff like that, whatever it takes. And I'm like, well, that's a VBS song. It's for kids. Yep. But I know the fruit of the spirit, love, joy,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Right. Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Faith and gentle SelfControl. And I can spit
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501just
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500The word is in you. Yeah. I mean, it just, you can't help it at this point. No. That's great. Yeah. I don't know. Uh, do you know, are you familiar with a guy named Matt Fra that leads the, uh, YouTube channel called, uh, pints with Aquinas? Are you familiar with that one?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501familiar, but I don't think we've,
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501met with him.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah. So, uh, I really like his channel. So he's a, he's a Catholic guy, uh, kind of a Catholic thinker, but does a lot with, uh, you know, issues that are related to men. His, his podcast now is kind of a part of the Daily Wire network of podcasts. Anyway, you know, none of that's important.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Okay. Okay.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah, yeah, yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Yep.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500but, uh, I saw something that he did just recently where he just asked, uh, his audience, which is mostly men, um, you know, and just asked them like, what are the, um, in the places where you're struggling, what are the things that you are. Thinking right before you give into that struggle, you know, right before you succumb to the temptation, what are the lies that are being whispered to you? And he just had people give him, you know, write it in, in the comments and send him all kind of stuff. And he took that list and I'm, you know, he did this like overnight, so I'm quite sure. He used AI to be able to help him compile this list of hundreds of comments and boil it down, but he did. He took it and turned it into a list of about 20 or 25. Like, here are the most common lies, objections, shameful, you know, accusations, whatever that are being thrown at you as you're being tempted. To, uh, you know, succumb to sin. And then he just had a scripture that went like in direct contrast to each one of those. Like, here's what the word of God says when you're attempted to feel like I'm such a loser. I just need this thing to make myself feel better about myself. Like, you know, here was the word of God saying you're fearfully and wonderfully made. You know what I mean? It's just like beautiful things to be able to confront the lies that we all are facing every day. And again, like. You know, I, I'm sure this guy knows, uh, knows the scriptures well. Um, but I, I guarantee in the amount of time that it took him to pull that off, uh, that he had some electronic help being able to make it happen. And we can do the same, you know, that's available to all of us to be able to use those kinds of resources to say, I need some help finding some scripture that relates to what I'm going through, guys, just take advantage of it. Just use the tools that are there. Uh, to be able to accomplish some good in your life. So thank you for that encouragement. Thank you for just that kind of perspective and reminder to, to be able to, to do it, to just go out and like, hey, uh, you can get the word into you. And all of us need to be doing that. So yeah. That's a good encouragement.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Amen, brother. 100%.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500absolutely. Well, Chris, uh, this has been fantastic. What would be the best way that you could encourage guys to, uh, get connected to you, get connected to the line within us, where's kind of the, the best starting place for guys to go to, to find more of you?
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Yeah, I mean, two places really. Uh, the website, uh, the lion within that's, don't forget the VTHE Lion within us. So that's the website. Uh, get the daily spear kickoff. That's free, man. Like, and we even do now, we started, uh, last month. Any guy who signs up for a daily spiritual kickoff, we give him a free gift. So like literally you got nothing to lose and we give you something. It's like a win-win, right? Uh, and then so that's a great place, uh, the line within us or. Just open the Bible app. I mean, it's the number one, uh, downloaded Bible app on the planet now. They, they just
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501downloads last year. I was out in Oklahoma celebrating that with them. open the Bible app and search for the lion within us. Uh, you'll find our page there. I'm, I'm blessed. Uh, every now and then they let me do, I've done two of them of the daily scripture readings, uh, for them. Uh, my last one I did, uh, just a few weeks ago in January. Over the last month now, uh, I was able, I recorded in my pasture with my horse and uh, it went really, it went really well and it was, had a ton of feedback on it. So, so yeah, Bible app or the website. Easy ways to connect with this or just shoot me an email. I mean, Chris at the line with end us. I don't mind that either. Like just I get plenty of emails and I try to respond to 'em all. So happy to, uh, connect and, and chat with you guys.
don-ross_1_03-06-2026_150500Yeah. Awesome Chris, great to have you on the show today, man. Really enjoyed hearing your heart. Thank you for the work that you're doing with men and uh, and for being an encouragement to us today here on the show. Really appreciate it.
chris-grainger_1_03-06-2026_150501Thanks, Don.