Most Men Fall Apart Because They're Alone | Larry Hagner

Most Christian men don’t fall apart because they’re weak. They fall apart because they’re alone.

In this conversation with Larry Hagner (founder of The Dad Edge), we unpack a hard truth: when life hits—marriage issues, faith struggles, stress, disconnection—most men don’t have the brotherhood they need to handle it.

Larry shares how his own life was headed toward divorce and dysfunction, and what changed everything wasn’t more effort. It was getting around other men who challenged him and showed him a better way.

But beneath that story is a deeper issue most men ignore: isolation.

This episode exposes why that’s so dangerous—and what it actually takes to change it.

In this episode, we cover:
 - Why men wait until crisis hits before asking for help
 - How isolation leads to breakdown in marriage and family
 - The hidden loneliness—even among successful men and leaders
 - Why most men lack the skills to lead (and where that gap comes from)
 - What real brotherhood looks like—and how it changes everything
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#ManhoodTribes #MensMinistry #Brotherhood #ChristianMen #Isolation

Episode 082: Most Men Fall Apart Because They're Alone | Larry Hagner

Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:30 Larry’s story: from dysfunction to growth
06:00 The marriage path he thought he was destined for
10:00 Why most men don’t know how to lead
14:00 The skill gap: what men were never taught
18:00 Why men struggle without other men
22:00 The danger of waiting until crisis hits
27:00 Overwhelm, busyness, and modern family life
32:00 Why brotherhood changes everything
36:00 Generational impact: changing your family’s future
40:00 Final encouragement + challenge

💪 Want to know how you measure up as a man? Take our free quiz, called How Manly Are You? and learn how you can get better at being a man. Download for free at manhoodtribes.com/manly. 💪

Transcript

Don Ross 0:01

Welcome to the Manhood Tribe Show. I'm your host, Don, and I'm really glad that you are joining us again here today. We are continuing kind of in a series of episodes where we are talking with guys who have been in the men's ministry and men's workspace for a while and who are able to kind of give us some perspective on what they've seen working with guys over the years. Uh, how those things are going and what it is really that men are in need of at the moment in terms of being able to grow and make an impact in their lives, kind of in a, in a whole bunch of different, uh, ways and spaces. And so today I'm, I'm super excited to be joined here by Larry Hagner. Larry is the founder of the Dad Edge, and I know that many of you, uh, who are part of the Manhood Tribes community are familiar with Larry and with his work at the Dad Edge. Uh, so I'm excited to have him here today. The Dad Edge is a community that empowers men to live and lead legendary lives. They help create legendary marriages, build epic connections with their kids, master personal finances, optimize health, and become a leader within their family. Larry is a podcast host of one of the top podcasts for men. He's a bestselling author as well, including his latest book, the Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. Larry, welcome to the show, Man, Good to have you here.

Larry Hagner 1:15

Man, what a, what a cool intro can, can we talk like every morning? Like that would be awesome. So

Don Ross 1:21

Absolutely.

Larry Hagner 1:22

Good to see you guys

Don Ross 1:23

just, you know, you can take that little short clip and uh, just put it somewhere, you know, like make it, uh, something you could put on your bathroom mirror and just hit play.

Larry Hagner 1:31

be like, I'll just listen to that. Oh, thanks man. That'd be good. Yeah, because I think we all know that men are their own worst critics, no matter like what level we're operating at. So

Don Ross 1:39

Yeah, dude.

Larry Hagner 1:39

man. Thanks for having me.

Don Ross 1:40

Absolutely. Okay. So for, uh, for guys who are listening and watching who maybe aren't, uh, familiar with you and with what you do, give us a little bit of a rundown of the Dad edge and what you do for Mint.

Larry Hagner 1:51

So, yeah, I, I, um, I, I always like kind of like smile when. When people ask me this, because like my first go-to is like, I'm still an idiot. You know what I mean? It's like you hear all these accolades and you're like, uh, let me bring my 18-year-old in here right now. He'll tell you the truth. know what I

Don Ross 2:10

Yes, Uhhuh.

Larry Hagner 2:11

um, but yeah, you know, so I'm, I'm the father of, uh, four amazing young men. Uh, 19. He'll be 20 this month, 18, 12, and nine. And if you ever wanna know what it's like four boys. Just think back to when you were in college and you went to a frat house party, but you never left.

Don Ross 2:32

Yeah,

Larry Hagner 2:33

That's it.

Don Ross 2:34

it's pretty much, yeah, all of life. That's great.

Larry Hagner 2:37

Uh, I'm married obviously to my best friend. My soulmate, in my opinion, the best woman on the planet, uh, God truly blessed me with. I mean, I don't know what he was doing. Like sometimes I'm like, I can't believe you. You gave her to me, man. Like. my wife even asks me, 'cause we go to church every single Sunday. She's like, what do you pray for? I was like, I, I have a, I have a thing. You know, it's, it's adoration, it's confession, it's and and supplication. And she's like, what are you thankful for? I was like, you laugh. I was like, I actually. week. I was like, thank you so much for giving me such a beautiful woman. And she's like, are you serious? I'm like, yeah. I was like, you're hot. I was like, and you're awesome. I was like, so, and you put up with me. So

Don Ross 3:20

Yeah, right. Winning combination.

Larry Hagner 3:22

Yeah. But we've been married 23 years. I've known her for 30 I, yeah. How I, you know, I, I spent two decades in, in medical device sales.

Don Ross 3:31

Okay.

Larry Hagner 3:31

doing this. So like what is a medical device sales guy doing? Running a dad podcast? I could give you the answer. And that is I really wasn't doing well as a dad at all. And there's lots of reasons to that that I'll go into, but this back in 2012, started the podcast back in 2015, I literally wrote down 10 ideas for shows, and I remember saying this to myself, well here's a start after this. I'm on God's good humor. And

Don Ross 3:57

Yeah,

Larry Hagner 3:58

we are, 1,450 episodes later. So. Yeah, it's, it's been, it's been a blessing. Um, and I'll tell you, without this, without doing this work, personally, I'd be divorced.

Don Ross 4:11

Hmm.

Larry Hagner 4:11

have two boys instead of four. I would have two boys that probably hate me. I would have a wife that probably hates me. And if I'm being honest with you, I'd probably be in my third marriage right now.

Don Ross 4:20

Wow. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 4:21

Yeah.

Don Ross 4:23

Gosh. Okay. So uh, tell us like why, like, what, what's the, what, what has made the difference there in, you know, life as it is today compared to how you imagined it would have turned out?

Larry Hagner 4:36

So I, I always had this view and it was probably 'cause of how I grew up. And again, I'm, I'm happy to share whatever you want to hear, but when I was growing up, I grew up in a really chaotic, mom was married three times, tons of boyfriends in between each marriage, lots of father figures, in and out. All of them. Toxic, all of them abusive, all of them alcoholics, all of them. U you know, I don't know how many of 'em use drugs, but I'm sure a good amount of 'em,

Don Ross 4:59

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 4:59

just really terrible father figures. like my, this sounds terrible. Like this sounds so bad. Like even when I tell my wife that she's like, that is like the worst outlook on life I've ever heard in my life. So my wife comes from a family, one of 28 first cousins. Her mom is one of six kids. Not one person in her family that we know of going back at least four or five generations has ever been divorced.

Don Ross 5:27

Wow.

Larry Hagner 5:28

Not, and there's like when we have Christmas over here, there's 70 plus people.

Don Ross 5:32

That's, yeah, that's a lot.

Larry Hagner 5:33

It's nuts. And I'm like, so she comes from this background where divorce is not an option. We,

Don Ross 5:37

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 5:38

through it. I come from a background, shit hits the fan, you get divorced.

Don Ross 5:42

Right? Yeah.

Larry Hagner 5:43

literally like I always thought. It took me seven years to marry my wife, and it's because I always told her, I was like, I love you too much to divorce. You

Don Ross 5:52

Hmm.

Larry Hagner 5:52

like, what? Who says that?

Don Ross 5:54

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 5:55

she's like, what? What? And I'm like, Jess, the end of marriage is divorce. I don't

Don Ross 6:00

Right.

Larry Hagner 6:01

you. Like I'm gonna tell you something really screwed up now that I've told her. And she's like, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I was like, I broke up with my wife seven times before we got married. It became a joke. She's like, oh, so we're doing our annual

Don Ross 6:16

Here we go again. Yeah,

Larry Hagner 6:17

here we go again. And she's like, why did you break up with me so much? And I didn't realize it then, but I know it now. I didn't know what a functional relationship looked like, so I just, I avoided, I escaped, and I, you know, I'm done. I'm out. I, I was a runner, right? So, um, I told her I was, and this is the honest to God truth. I was like, I loved you so much and I cared about you so much. And I always thought. The end of marriage was divorced, so I thought it'd be better if I just married somebody I didn't love as much as you.

Don Ross 6:45

Wow,

Larry Hagner 6:46

Like what?

Don Ross 6:47

gosh.

Larry Hagner 6:48

So, like, literally that was my logic.

Don Ross 6:50

Hmm.

Larry Hagner 6:51

I literally, to answer your question, I imagined my, my life divorced, um, married several times, several different children to make ends meet. You know, sending several different women child support because I couldn't figure out relationships. Literally, I thought that was my life. I'd

Don Ross 7:07

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 7:07

I'd be saying, I've known a woman for 30 years. We've been married for 23, and I love her, EV. I love her more every year. We're married,

Don Ross 7:14

Yeah. that's awesome.

Larry Hagner 7:14

the difference.

Don Ross 7:16

Uh, that's cool. You know, I think the better question is, uh, how did a woman like that end up with a guy like you?

Larry Hagner 7:28

That might be. One of the best questions I've ever heard from any podcast.

Don Ross 7:32

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 7:33

So I'm

Don Ross 7:33

Well, you're welcome.

Larry Hagner 7:34

I'm telling her you asked that.

Don Ross 7:36

You're welcome.

Larry Hagner 7:37

Yeah. And you know what's really funny is, is I have a couple business partners that have been partners of mine for 10 years and we bust each other's chops all the time. And one of my business partners, like with if my wife is in the room while we're on a Zoom call, he'll, he'll be like, Hey Jessica, I have a serious question for you. Like. How in the world, someone as hot as you and put together as you and as smart as you, ends up with a lunatic like this. So, um, I, I ask her that question a lot. I'm like, I wouldn't have put up with me?

Don Ross 8:08

Yeah. Seven breakups. Man, that's a, That's a lot.

Larry Hagner 8:11

That's a lot. And plus like, let's not forget about all the dumb moves I was making while we were even together, and I still continue to make to these days. That's what true love is. You know, it's, it is a choice and you, you always look for the best in the other person and not the worst. And that's one thing I can say about her is she's always looked at the best in me and she's never held necessarily my shortcomings against me, even though like they've been super annoying to her

Don Ross 8:34

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 8:34

they, they might've even been deal breakers at points in time, but wife will say this, is maybe my saving grace. like, when I give you feedback, you actually listen and you're so. so dead set on being your best self. It doesn't take much for me to say something and you're like often fixing it.

Don Ross 8:53

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 8:53

So she's like, I, I love that. Like every guy I've ever been with has always been like, not my problem. Yours,

Don Ross 9:00

Hmm.

Larry Hagner 9:00

you know, and like that was the attitude. And like, and let's, let's get one of the things straight. I don't agree with everything that she says,

Don Ross 9:07

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 9:07

first, question that I ask myself, even if I'm offended or pissed. I ask myself is her, is, is there truth to her feedback?

Don Ross 9:16

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 9:16

there always is.

Don Ross 9:18

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 9:19

Yeah.

Don Ross 9:19

That's good, man. Uh, that's really good to hear.

Larry Hagner 9:21

Great

Don Ross 9:22

Okay. So, so thank you. Uh, so okay, so you kind of got into this, uh, you know, you know, what would, I guess, eventually kind of become the data edge, uh, you know, got into sort of this space, wanting for some kind of self-improvement there, but what made you kind of jump the leap from, uh, or take the leap from, okay, this is good for me to, I wanna be able to help other guys with this as well.

Larry Hagner 9:47

Um, it, it came from tremendous imposter syndrome in the beginning, so I started, you know, I, I started podcasting back in 2015. I never, never even considered coaching

Don Ross 9:59

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 10:00

or starting a community. I was literally podcasting because I wanted to pod, I wanted to learn. Like I, was, you know, as a podcaster you're always like, oh, I hope people listen. I wanna

Don Ross 10:09

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 10:10

And there was a little bit of that, but it was more, I want to talk to this fascinating individual who's super smart and way smarter than me so I can learn from them.

Don Ross 10:18

Sure. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 10:19

that's, the way it's always been. But, um. I started having people reach out to me to help them, and I'm like, have you listened to my podcast? I'm a mess. Like, you want me to help you? Like I'm trying to figure me out. uh, but, but I did, I started taking clients and it was so funny, man. I started, I charged people $50 an hour. I don't even come close to that now, but like, and I always was like, I can't believe this person wants my help. Like, I'm so lost myself. Right? but that's the beauty in coaching, I think.

Don Ross 10:52

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 10:52

if you look at like, like, let's, let's look at aa, right? People are pretty darn successful in aa and that's because the help comes from someone who's already been down that road and they know firsthand exactly what that person's going through, so that that mess becomes their message.

Don Ross 11:10

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 11:10

became my message, and that's, and, but it's, it's not avoidant of still being messy.

Don Ross 11:17

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 11:17

just, I'm just better at cleaning it up. Or better from preventing it from happening. Uh, but yeah, I, I made that switch back in 2016. I was like, you know what? Back in 2015, I start, I joined my first mastermind and I thought it was like snake oil in the beginning. I was like, and it was $500 a month for me to be part of this thing. And I was like, I can't even justify this. But I

Don Ross 11:39

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 11:40

And I have never experienced anything like that. And when I entered that room, I, I literally told myself, I was like, I'll stay here a month and then I'm gone. I stayed there a year. I couldn't get enough of it. Every answer to every question I ever wanted. And you know this 'cause you run a tribe was in that room

Don Ross 11:56

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 11:56

I was like, are the conversations and the answers I've always yearned for, but never got.

Don Ross 12:02

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 12:03

And it was a year later, I was like, I think I'm gonna start my own for dads. See

Don Ross 12:07

Hmm. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 12:09

up 10 of my buddies and kind of like people I knew were audience members and I'm like, Hey, I'm starting this. You wanna be a part of it? And every one of them said, yep.

Don Ross 12:17

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 12:17

started, then we officially started it big time, then for the next several years it just exploded. And I couldn't even, I was like, I, I can't believe this, this is

Don Ross 12:29

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 12:29

But it's been a, it's been amazing.

Don Ross 12:31

Yeah. That's incredible, man. Uh, that's, uh, I love just hearing kind of like the, you know, the initial story, the initial takeoff, uh, of how these things get going. 'cause I think, you know, just, uh, doing the work myself, it's a, it's a tough space to be in at times. Right. Uh, it's, it's not always the easiest to be able to connect with men, especially over things of significance. I think guys are both like. Really, really hungry for that. And at the same time really, really avoidant of it. And, uh, so just, you know, finding a way to be able to do that in a way that resonates with men and, uh, leverages the platforms that you're using. Well, like, kudos to you, man. Uh, I think you've, you've done it really well and, uh, it's been an encouragement I know to me and to a ton of other guys as well, so thanks.

Larry Hagner 13:16

Appreciate that, man. Thank

Don Ross 13:17

Yeah. What, um, I'm curious to just kind of know, like, you know, you've been in the space now for, you know, a decade or more. What, uh, how's it look different, you know, what's different now, uh, in terms of what you're doing or, uh, the challenges that you're seeing, um, what maybe even what's different about men 10 years ago versus, you. know, now? What, what, what are You hearing that uh, feels unique or different?

Larry Hagner 13:41

You know, um, do you know Ryan Mickler?

Don Ross 13:43

Yeah, I Sure. do. That's the, uh, order of man guy.

Larry Hagner 13:45

Yeah. and I have been friends for over a decade, and, um, we started our podcast at the same time and, uh, didn't even know each other. We actually met each other in a podcast group that when we started back in 2015 and you had to go, like in the podcast group, you, there was like a hundred of us and you had to go through, there was a spreadsheet and everyone had the title of their show. People were rating and reviewing each other's show. You had to check it off if you did, to be a part of the group, that kind of thing. And I, I came across Ryan. And I was like, order a man. I was like, what's that all about? And then I listened to a few of the shows. I was like, this guy sounds eerily close to like my experience growing up this

Don Ross 14:23

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 14:24

And so I messaged him, I'm like, Hey man, we're in the same group. I was like, I want to connect. And he was like, and we did and we immediately hit it off. And Ryan didn't start, he started his community a year before me

Don Ross 14:37

Mm-hmm.

Larry Hagner 14:37

and I was like the Iron Council. And I was like, what is that? He's like, it's a mastermind. I was like, oh, I was a part of a mastermind. I was like, how are, how are you doing this? And then he grew. And then the next year I started ours officially. so Ryan and I talk all the time

Don Ross 14:54

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 14:54

we were just talking. I was like, what are you seeing in the market now with all this going on? And he's like, it is so different than what it was when you and I first started.

Don Ross 15:04

Hmm.

Larry Hagner 15:04

like, you and I were of the originals,

Don Ross 15:07

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 15:07

of the OGs now. was like five of us in the space, now there's like 5,000 of us

Don Ross 15:14

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 15:15

Right. So that's the biggest difference. And

Don Ross 15:17

Yeah,

Larry Hagner 15:17

the thing that I think is scary for members, right? You mentioned before we, uh, even hit record a lot of men feel really awkward in men communities. Right.

Don Ross 15:27

yeah.

Larry Hagner 15:28

I think a lot of, and I know you, you referred to more church environments, but I think it's also the same is said in in the social environments The thing that I think is most dangerous right now is if everyone's a guru, no one's a guru.

Don Ross 15:44

Right.

Larry Hagner 15:44

what I think is super dangerous. So, um, this sounds very, very self-serving, and I don't mean it to be, I caution men. You need to be really careful about where you put your money in the, in the, in the community. You go into

Don Ross 15:58

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 15:59

out the person who's running it. Do they, are they even a certified coach? If they're not, you need to question that. if all you're doing is following somebody else because of the way they're living their life, that's not true coaching.

Don Ross 16:11

Sure.

Larry Hagner 16:12

And and I think that, that, I think that people need to take a really good look at that. 'cause people are paying

Don Ross 16:19

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 16:20

of dollars to be a part of something that they get no value from.

Don Ross 16:23

Hmm. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 16:24

very careful with that.

Don Ross 16:26

Yeah. What, um, what are you hearing from guys, you know, from the, the dads that are coming to you? What are the, the things that you kind of most commonly hear that men are facing and, uh, are in need of some help with at the moment?

Larry Hagner 16:40

So while I'm in the dad space, I truly think the way that our, our brand really works is probably be, and it's probably 'cause it's my superpower is marriage.

Don Ross 16:50

Okay. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 16:51

come to my table. The tip of the spear for them is I feel like a roommate with my wife right now. That's what I hear a lot. another one that brings men to my table is I cannot figure out how to be more patient with my kid or even connect with them.

Don Ross 17:05

Hmm.

Larry Hagner 17:06

hard for me.

Don Ross 17:07

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 17:08

And then the third one is, and they don't say it this way, have no idea how to lead this. It usually comes up with saying like, I'm really stressed out. I'm really overwhelmed. I'm not exactly sure what to do in this situation when this happens. And I'm not exactly sure. of guys, and this is not an insult, okay? I promise. It's not an insult, it's just the way it is. Most men have no idea how to lead and lead their

Don Ross 17:36

Yeah. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 17:37

most of us don't even know how to lead ourselves.

Don Ross 17:39

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 17:39

here, but here's why I let men off the hook. not your fault. Like when did your dad ever pull you? It's

Don Ross 17:45

Yeah. Who, who showed us. how to do that? Yeah.

Larry Hagner 17:47

showed us. Yeah. It's not like you learned that in school. It's not like you learned emotional IQ in school, relationship dynamics,

Don Ross 17:53

right.

Larry Hagner 17:54

No one ever pulled you aside and said, son, let me, let me share with you how to communicate with a woman. Let me share with you how to attract a wife that you've been married to for 15 plus years. cause

Don Ross 18:03

Yeah. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 18:04

too. me show you how to lead her in a way where she fell, feels led and not dominated. No one teaches us that. But you, here's the good news, and I'll, I'll be quiet after this. The good news is this, there are Optim, there are so many resources at your fingertips right now that you can go learn. So. The tough love is this. It's not your fault that you don't know how to do this. However, it's your responsibility to learn it if you don't.

Don Ross 18:30

Yeah. Agreed. Uh, I'm, I'm curious, even kind of as you mentioned, those, uh, those, those kinda like three big areas there, like, um, I, I've got some thoughts as I'm hearing you say it, but I, I'd love to hear your take on like, what, what's the commonality there? Like what are, what are the, Do you see some threads that are running there in between men and like what's going on internally as to like why it is that guys are dealing with those things at the moment?

Larry Hagner 18:55

Absolutely. do martial arts?

Don Ross 18:58

I don't,

Larry Hagner 18:59

Okay. did you play sports growing up?

Don Ross 19:01

oh yeah, I did some, uh, a little bit of team sports, but a lot of individual sports. So, uh, swimming, tennis, golf, some of that kind of stuff.

Larry Hagner 19:08

Okay. perfect. Um, which one of those sports do you like the most? Like

Don Ross 19:13

Uh,

Larry Hagner 19:13

could actually say, I love this.

Don Ross 19:15

yeah, swimming.

Larry Hagner 19:16

Okay. Think for a moment. You show up to your very first swim meet because you love to swim, right? You jump in the pool. You've never practiced you, you've swam on your own a little bit, right? Kind of figured some things out on your own. But then you get in competition. What do you think is gonna happen?

Don Ross 19:34

Yeah, you're gonna suck.

Larry Hagner 19:36

You get smoked, right?

Don Ross 19:38

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 19:39

Just like in marriage, just like in fatherhood, right? It's it, the gap is the skill. The gap is, is not knowing what to do and how to do it. So

Don Ross 19:47

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 19:48

about it when you're on a team, like you swam for a team who course corrected you when you needed it.

Don Ross 19:54

Yeah. A coach,

Larry Hagner 19:55

A coach, right? Or, or a mentor or a

Don Ross 19:58

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Larry Hagner 19:59

to be like a coach that we have to pay or anything like that,

Don Ross 20:01

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 20:02

somebody was there to look at your situation

Don Ross 20:05

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 20:05

differently and objectively, and they knew the skill sets that were lacking, the ones that were strong. So they optimized the ones that are strong and they helped you grow in the ones that had opportunity to grow.

Don Ross 20:16

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 20:17

but trying to do that, trying to white knuckle swimming at a competitive level all by yourself. Is really frustrating and it's a lot of guesswork, and you're like, well, maybe if I do this the next time it'll work. And then you try it and you're like, that didn't work.

Don Ross 20:30

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 20:30

I'll do that the next time. And then that didn't work. And then that, I think that's the world that a lot of guys live in, is it feels like that I'm swimming in competition. I don't have a coach and I only learned what I learned growing up.

Don Ross 20:44

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 20:44

how to competitively swim. That's the gap.

Don Ross 20:46

Right.

Larry Hagner 20:47

gap. is knowing how to do it.

Don Ross 20:51

Yeah, that, uh, that's tremendous. And, you know, as you, as you share that, and in particularly about skill, uh, one of the things that we talk a lot about at Manhood Tribes, um, we use what I call the five marks of manhood. These are just kind of the things that help us understand what does it mean to be a man? You know, how how do you, how do you do manhood effectively? Um, and one of those five marks is actually the area of skill. And So we talk a lot about like. You know, men are meant to be relied on for a set of skills. That's just part of how men have always showed up in the world. You know, it doesn't matter the time period, the culture, the history, you know, whatever, like men are dependent on for skills. Um, but I think you're right, like the, the amount of skills that men need. To survive and thrive in our world today is probably more than it ever has been. You know, it just, it, it takes more in terms of knowing not just like, you know, how do I do the things that are gonna put food on the table for my family, but how do I navigate all these like, crazy relational dynamics that I have to deal with on a daily basis? You know, those are, uh, increasingly more skills and increasingly, you know, more difficult skills to be able to, to master and to figure out. So I, I think you're incredibly. Spot on. Uh, and I, I think too, you know, one of the things that we. Talk about at Manhood Tribes is that the way you get better at those things is that you've got to have men around you who are challenging you to get better at them. You know that you can grow in your skill in how to talk to your wife, or how to navigate a difficult conversation with your teenage son or you know, whatever. Like those things are possible, but are you gonna do them on your own? Mm, it's not likely, you know, like, uh, unless somebody in your life is kind of holding your feet to the fire and saying, dude, like, things are just gonna continue to be bad until you actually step up and do something about it. You know, until you figure this out. But we men, we love to avoid those places where we feel insecure or uncomfortable or, you know, I don't wanna have to own up to the fact that I don't know how to do this, so I'm just. I'm just not, I'm just gonna continue to avoid that. I don't know how to do it and stumble through it when I must. Um, but, you know, we just make a mess of things. So having some men around you who can say, uh, let's, let's create a, we, we call 'em manhood challenges. Let's create a manhood challenge for you in this area of skill where you're gonna have to learn how to get better at having this conversation with your wife. And, you know, uh, like, we'll help, you know, we're gonna talk it through with you, help you kind of think about what that's gonna look like and how to do it. But a month from now, like. You need to have had this conversation with her and we wanna know how it goes. Uh, and you know, that kind of like brotherhood, that kind of, uh, challenge I think is what most men are missing and in need of, uh, because otherwise how are we gonna grow? You know, how are we gonna like, actually make those things kind of happen? So, I don't know if you've seen, uh, any of the same kind of things. Like what, what are you seeing that it takes for men to actually make the steps to be able to overcome that, that skill gap?

Larry Hagner 23:39

Such a great, great question. Um, and you're right. Um, just a couple of reflections on some really incredible things that you said. Men don't like to publicly suck at something

Don Ross 23:49

right

Larry Hagner 23:49

right now. Um, over my shoulder, you'll see two guitars, right? You.

Don Ross 23:55

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 23:57

I'm learning how to play guitar with my 18-year-old right now. Not

Don Ross 23:59

Okay. Well done.

Larry Hagner 24:01

Yeah. Not because I love guitar, but 'cause I love hanging out with my kid.

Don Ross 24:03

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 24:04

just tell you, I suck at it. I suck at it, and you know why I suck at it. I'll give you a guess.

Don Ross 24:11

Because you haven't done it. You haven't practiced much.

Larry Hagner 24:13

I, I both

Don Ross 24:14

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 24:15

done it, I haven't practiced much. Right. So it's like the thing that want to do, right? I, I, literally dream about the day that I can jam on guitar with my kid. And in my mind that feels so far away. Right? But

Don Ross 24:31

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 24:31

but

Don Ross 24:31

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 24:32

is a great player and we've been playing for the same amount of time,

Don Ross 24:36

Hmm.

Larry Hagner 24:36

but he's probably put in about 40 more hours of practice than I have.

Don Ross 24:40

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 24:40

Right? So there's, there's the, there's the gap right there. We don't

Don Ross 24:43

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 24:44

But here's the other thing too. We don't like being uncomfortable doing the thing we don't like, feel uncomfortable with. But we want the result,

Don Ross 24:49

Right. Yeah,

Larry Hagner 24:50

uncomfortable thing.

Don Ross 24:51

yeah,

Larry Hagner 24:51

So, um, your question again? I'm so sorry. Can you repeat that?

Don Ross 24:55

yeah. What are you seeing that? actually helps men be able to overcome those skill gaps? How, what? You know, what does it take for us to get there?

Larry Hagner 25:02

right. So I'm gonna answer this two different ways.

Don Ross 25:05

I.

Larry Hagner 25:05

is the path I do not recommend at all, and I'll explain the entire psychology. I

Don Ross 25:12

Okay.

Larry Hagner 25:13

I see, uh, three different men saying yes, I, I would like to come and learn, right? Let's talk about a good situation. Things are pretty good. things are really good. I just want them to be better,

Don Ross 25:29

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 25:30

I think that's actually optimal, right? Because if a man is already in a good head space, prefrontal cortex is open and he's willing to learn, right?

Don Ross 25:39

Mm-hmm.

Larry Hagner 25:39

Let's talk about another man. Things are okay. They're not great, and want them to be better. So that man is probably feels tension pressure. Like, uh, like I feel like a big storm is coming

Don Ross 25:52

Yeah. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 25:52

front of it. That's still a pretty good situation. The one I see the most the one that I don't recommend we wait on, and that's when the crisis happens.

Don Ross 26:02

Oh, yeah,

Larry Hagner 26:03

tell you, Don, how many emails I get and it's, it saddens me because it happens almost every week.

Don Ross 26:08

yeah,

Larry Hagner 26:09

I get an email from either a random, like a random audience member, Hey man, I'm not sure what to do. need to get on your calendar. My wife just told me she wants a divorce,

Don Ross 26:18

yeah.

Larry Hagner 26:19

and the first thing I'm thinking of is I wish you would've sent this email a year ago.

Don Ross 26:23

Right.

Larry Hagner 26:24

Because the mindset of that man, the amygdala is now on in the driver's seat. He's panicked, he's

Don Ross 26:31

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 26:31

he's concerned, fight, flight, freeze. I dunno what to do. My house is on fire and what he feels like is my house is on fire and all I have is buckets of water. I gotta work as fast as I can and as desperate as I can to get as much water in these buckets as I can to get this fire out.

Don Ross 26:45

Yep.

Larry Hagner 26:46

the optimal learning space for anybody.

Don Ross 26:48

Yeah. Crisis. space, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Larry Hagner 26:51

I always tell men.

Don Ross 26:53

Do

Larry Hagner 26:53

not wait until your engine falls out of your car before you get an oil change. We don't even

Don Ross 26:57

Right.

Larry Hagner 26:57

that. Don't wait until your teeth fall outta your face, until you go to the dentist. I think there's a problem.

Don Ross 27:02

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 27:02

Do the preventative maintenance.

Don Ross 27:04

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that's, uh, man, that's, uh, that's such good wisdom. Um, it's so hard for men to apply it. Right? And I think, I think for most men, and I, I can empathize with this because I think it's, uh, that, you know, it's. The combination of that tendency of, of what you talked about. We don't, you know, we don't like to publicly suck at anything. Um, so if it feels like there's an area that I don't know how to handle very well, um, it's just so much easier for me to put it on the back burner and ignore it than to actually do something about it. Um, but I, you know, I think also part of it is like, uh, our lives for most of us as men are just. Sheer overwhelming at the moment. You know, most guys that I talk to, it is, uh, a just like daily bombardment of, I just wanna survive the day. You know, like I just am trying to make it through and get to the next one. And so when, uh, when a crisis hits, I think, you know, you and I would both say, like, we could look at that and go, this was a long time coming dude, and, and you probably knew it. Um, but you know, for the guy living it, it's kind of like, uh, when would I, you know, I think, I think he feels like, when would I have had a moment? To be able to figure out how to handle this crisis. You know, a year ago, like my, my life, you know, yes, this is crisis and this is chaos, but my life has felt like chaos, uh, all along. You know, it is just, it's just been overwhelming and it's too busy, and I've got too much going on. And, you know, my kids are involved in 14 different sports, and I've gotta be at every ball field and practice, you know, under the sun. And we, like, I never have a moment to see my wife. And anyway, you know, I'm, I'm just rambling at this point, but, but the picture I think that I hear from most guys is, uh, I, I don't have. I don't have the margin in my life to be able to handle those things as they come up. And so it's either just ignore them, um, and hope that they go away or deal with them when they become a crisis. And so I, I, I like a, do you hear that same kind of thing, and B, how do you help a guy who's kind of like thinking about his life that way and just facing that kind of daily chaos.

Larry Hagner 29:06

That's a, that's a big question. Um, let me, let me ask this question before we, before I answer that, for a man to raise his hand and say. I don't have this all figured out, but

Don Ross 29:19

Sure.

Larry Hagner 29:19

learn

Don Ross 29:20

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 29:20

strength or weakness?

Don Ross 29:23

I, I think you and I would probably call it strength. I think to the average guy, it, it feels terrifying, right? It feels like, uh, that's, I most guys don't want to take that step.

Larry Hagner 29:34

exactly. Right. So, but is it better to wait till your marriage dissolves? Which one's scarier?

Don Ross 29:41

Yeah, for sure. I mean, no, no, no guy wants to wait to that point, but I think every guy is kind of like, you know, when they're facing it, they're saying. I'm just gonna hope that it's not headed in that direction, Right. It's not like, oh, if I don't do anything, this is a surefire way that leads to divorce. You know, it's, I think in the moment it's more like, ah, if I don't do anything, maybe this will just go away. Maybe it'll get better, you know, maybe it won't turn out, uh, to be anything worse than just we have to deal with this fight, you know, once every other month or so.

Larry Hagner 30:11

Yeah. And. The way to look at that, like this will just eventually go away. The only time to ever do that is never,

Don Ross 30:21

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 30:21

doesn't go away. It'll get worse. So let, let's, let's actually just give men a new perspective here. A man who says, I don't have all the answers, and I'd like to be better, that man is courageous because he's, he's exemplifying exactly what you just said. He's terrified.

Don Ross 30:40

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 30:41

You cannot execute courage without the feeling of fear.

Don Ross 30:45

Right.

Larry Hagner 30:46

So if you feel terrified, good, good. Because now you get to display courage.

Don Ross 30:52

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 30:53

Is

Don Ross 30:53

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 30:53

let me ask one more question. In clarifying men who step into something like that, are they common or uncommon?

Don Ross 31:00

Uh, they are uncommon in their willingness to step into it. Uh, they're common in their experience of it, is what I would say.

Larry Hagner 31:08

Ooh, that's good. I, I never even thought about that second part, but you're exactly right. men step into an an un, unknown community growth learning or whatever. They want that result. And it takes courage to do that. You and I, I learned this from a Navy seal, you cannot be courageous without feeling fear,

Don Ross 31:30

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 31:31

don't feel the fear, there is no courage that's even there, right?

Don Ross 31:34

that's right.

Larry Hagner 31:34

it is uncommon and it is courageous, and it is strength. Men perceive. It is, if I need help, I'm weak. It's actually the opposite.

Don Ross 31:42

Yeah,

Larry Hagner 31:42

to answer your question, um, the margin aspect. I, I love Dr. John Delony. Do you know him?

Don Ross 31:49

yeah, I know of him. I don't, I don't follow him? significantly, but Yeah. know who he is.

Larry Hagner 31:53

I love his stuff. I've had him on the podcast twice, but he has this, he, he's, he's so logical with, with his psychology. He's like, sports is ruining American families. Period.

Don Ross 32:04

Oh gosh, dude. Soapbox. You don't wanna get me on, but, but yes.

Larry Hagner 32:09

So the

Don Ross 32:10

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 32:10

that you're describing, my wife and I, a long time ago, because we've been parents for two decades now, we made a decision of it's one activity. that's all you get. And we ain't doing travel stuff unless you're freaking amazing and you're gonna get a scholarship

Don Ross 32:25

Right. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 32:26

eats away at a family.

Don Ross 32:27

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 32:28

But here's what we did two years ago. We have two older boys and we have two younger boys. older ones were had one who is the marching band, major drum major,

Don Ross 32:39

Mm-hmm.

Larry Hagner 32:39

the

Don Ross 32:40

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 32:40

and then the younger brother who's just a year younger than him was the center for the varsity football team. Friday night lights, we see both kids and then our little guys would kind of do more spring sports, like soccer and baseball. So we had two bigs in fall and then two in the spring. Well, two years ago, our 12-year-old decided he wanted to play football. So now we have two football players in football season. to mention the fact, which by the way, all of all hockey parents out there will laugh what I'm about to say because my 9-year-old went to play hockey. And if you don't know anything about hockey, you just signed up for a part-time job, even if

Don Ross 33:14

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 33:15

And even if you're not the coach, it's

Don Ross 33:17

One activity feels like eight.

Larry Hagner 33:19

It does. Hockey is crazy. So we had four kids in fall sports that went on, and hockey is a long season. That went on for about six months and we exhausted

Don Ross 33:31

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 33:31

burnt out our family. We got disconnected in our marriage

Don Ross 33:36

Hmm.

Larry Hagner 33:36

we looked at us, we looked at that situation and we're like, we are never ever doing this again.

Don Ross 33:42

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 33:43

Exactly what you're describing. a lot of people are like, well, my buddy's kids are playing travel baseball, so my kid needs to,

Don Ross 33:50

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 33:51

daughter's in dance, so she needs to be in competitive dance. I, I, I really caution men. Do you think, do you think your kids actually, number one, do you think your kids actually want that? And maybe they do, right? But I think that's, that's like the first, do you want that or do

Don Ross 34:07

Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's the question. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 34:10

And then the second question is, what is this commitment gonna do to our family as a unit? Is it gonna hurt us or help us?

Don Ross 34:16

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 34:16

If it's gonna hurt us, we need to go in a different direction. Because here's the real truth, especially with with sports. Every parent is a sports fanatic. Now 2%, two 2% of youth athletes will actually play a sport in college.

Don Ross 34:30

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 34:31

It's crazy, but yet we're killing ourselves over that.

Don Ross 34:33

Yeah. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 34:35

Yeah.

Don Ross 34:35

Yeah. Well, I mean, Yeah. again, uh, soapbox that I probably don't need to get on, but, uh, you and I are are very much aligned there. We took a very similar stance with our kids. I've got two boys who are now 18 and 16. Um, so, you know, similar stage as your older ones. And, and we kind of said the same thing, like, you guys can have one activity, you know, maybe even we can get away with one activity per season, but we're just not gonna overdo it. You know, we're just, we're not gonna let. Kids activities be the thing that dictates our family calendar. And that was a pretty controversial, uh, decision at the time, especially my older one who was fairly athletic and wanted to play every, you know, anything that involved a ball, he wanted to be a part of it. And we just had to kind of say like, Hey, we're gonna have to put some limits here and let's find something that we can say yes to, but we're gonna, we're gonna just kind of stick with those things. And then, uh, you know, but, uh, it meant that we had to say no to some things that he wanted to be able to do. And that wasn't always a fun conversation. Um, it did mean that he missed out on some things that his buddies were doing, and, uh, that was frustrating for him at times. And then, uh, you know, the rest of the story, which I, it's hard to exist in that story, you know, uh, as you're living it. But, um, just this past year, so he's, he's getting ready to graduate, but this year, his senior year, um, he came to me after watching some of his friends who were, um, seniors or had graduated last year and who were just burnt out on the sport. That they were playing, that they had invested so much of their, you know, lives and careers into and school. And uh, and he, he was watching them and he came to me and he said, thank you for not being the dad. That forced me to go play these sports and be on travel teams and have this be my life. 'cause I'm watching my friends now and they hate playing their. Their burnout and their relationship with their parents isn't good anymore. And I thought, okay, I didn't ever expect to get those words, you know, like I kind of knew like, that was like dad wisdom that I would just have to kind of hang on to for life and go, nah, this is probably the right decision, even though my kid's never gonna see it the way that I see it. Um, but to hear him kind of come back with the wisdom of watching his peers and going, yeah, that would like, it hurt at the time, but that was the right decision, uh, made it worth it, you know? It really made it worth it.

Larry Hagner 36:46

I love that, man. That's such a good story. And then it just, that, that seals the, the deal right there as far as like, you know, what direction is our family gonna go and what, what, what is right for us?

Don Ross 36:56

Yeah. absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so, um, I would love to know, I mean, dude, you've been doing this now for a while. You've seen some tremendous success with the dad edge. Like does it look at all what you imagine, like, is what you're experiencing now, what you imagined when you started and like, how's it different than what you thought it maybe was going to turn out to be?

Larry Hagner 37:17

Yeah, man. Uh, you know, I, I never, I never thought that I would leave the medical device industry. To pursue this full time, but I did.

Don Ross 37:27

What, you know, being a full-time podcaster, what did. what did that even mean?

Larry Hagner 37:30

Yeah.

Don Ross 37:30

You know, at that point in time, like, is that a thing?

Larry Hagner 37:33

I even, I'll never forget, like this is kind of funny, I left five years ago, um, to do this full time and the person that I was terrified to tell the most that I was gonna do that was my mother-in-law.

Don Ross 37:44

Oh wow. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 37:46

she had. no idea that, you know, we, we had built a, a, a thriving organization. You

Don Ross 37:51

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 37:52

just thought I was having fun on a microphone,

Don Ross 37:54

Right.

Larry Hagner 37:54

people out.

Don Ross 37:55

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 37:55

So when I, I even wasn't as scared to tell my wife, but I told my, my mother-in-law that, and I literally thought she was gonna be like, what, what, what are you doing? Like, this is my daughter, these are my grandchildren. Well, what are you doing?

Don Ross 38:06

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 38:07

And, um, instead, you know, I told her, I was like, we're in a good spot. And she's like, how? And I told her, I was like, this is. our monthly revenues we're we'll be just fine. was like, how in the world do you do that on a podcast? And

Don Ross 38:21

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 38:22

and so to answer your question, I remember like even when we started the Data Edge Alliance back in 2017, I, it still at that point, I was like, I, I guess we're gonna be like, I don't know, 50 people in here, maybe a hundred. And we grew to like 800 people. And

Don Ross 38:38

Yeah. Wow.

Larry Hagner 38:40

how does that happen?

Don Ross 38:41

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 38:42

it, I think it's. I think the truth is this, men want this.

Don Ross 38:47

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 38:47

I mean, like one of the cool things that I see now, dude, and you see this too, Don, you see more dads in the stands now than we ever did When you and I were growing up,

Don Ross 38:58

Yeah, absolutely.

Larry Hagner 38:59

going

Don Ross 39:00

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 39:00

trips. We never had dad, like if you saw a dad

Don Ross 39:03

No, it didn't happen. Yeah,

Larry Hagner 39:04

is your dad unemployed?

Don Ross 39:06

right.

Larry Hagner 39:06

You know what I mean?

Don Ross 39:07

Why is your dad here? Yeah.

Larry Hagner 39:09

But like, this is what we're seeing. Guys are saying this. on my watch,

Don Ross 39:14

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 39:15

not with my kids, not my generation. This stops with me and this starts with me.

Don Ross 39:20

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 39:20

that's what I think we're seeing.

Don Ross 39:22

Yeah. Very cool. Uh, where do you go from here? What do, what do you want to continue to see with the data edge and, and what it looks like with reaching men in this space?

Larry Hagner 39:33

I want here, here, here's what I want. And this is not outta agreed. This is, this has nothing to do with revenue or anything like that. I want a million guys in our, in our community, you know what that tells me? That's a million men saying not on my watch,

Don Ross 39:52

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 39:52

not my generation

Don Ross 39:54

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 39:54

my family.

Don Ross 39:55

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 39:56

changes now, and this, this is why I say this. When the, when the dad, the man steps up and leads in that way,

Don Ross 40:06

Yes.

Larry Hagner 40:07

he's completely and totally. Making a generational impact,

Don Ross 40:12

Yeah,

Larry Hagner 40:12

with his kids.

Don Ross 40:13

yeah,

Larry Hagner 40:14

say this to my guys all the time, you're gonna see this work in your grandchildren, not just

Don Ross 40:18

yeah. Yep.

Larry Hagner 40:19

this is generational impact.

Don Ross 40:21

Yeah. Uh, dude, that's so good. I actually, I, I was just talking with somebody else about that very idea and, and kind of around, you know, I, I mentioned, uh, at Manhood Tribes we have these things we call the five marks of manhood, and one of them is in the area of allegiance, which is, uh, just means like as a man, part of how you. Live out your relationships is that you have to learn what it looks like to follow others in authority. So allegiance is about where, where am I, uh, under the authority of others. You know, as a boy that might look like your parents, your teachers, your coaches, whatever. As a, as a grown man, it looks like, uh, your boss, you know, your company, maybe even like local government, but it also means like ultimate allegiance. Where am I giving my faith? Or my beliefs, you know, that I'm kind of saying like, this is the, this is the thing, whether it's a God or a code or a whatever. That is really kind of like the thing that I live my life by. And if we can get that, the reason that we say allegiance is a, is a mark of manhood because you know, to some extent that's true of women as well. But the reason that we say it's a mark of manhood is because when a man gets that allegiance piece right, it not only affects his life, but it changes the lives of. Everybody else around him, starting with his family, but his other relationships as well. So when he gets the alignment of his allegiance, right, like, I'm gonna live my life this way. This is, this is what I'm following, this is the course that I'm plotting for my life. Uh, then, you know, things begin to change for him, but they also begin to change for his wife, for his kids, for his work, for his finances, for his health, for his spirituality, for his sexuality, for his, I mean, you know, like you name it. All of it begins to change, and it changes not just in the immediate future, but in the long distance future as well. Right. It sets, like you're talking about generational legacy of I'm beginning to impact. the people that come behind me because I've got this allegiance thing dialed in correctly. I'm following the right kind of north star and it's, it's setting a course for my life that's actually working and making a difference. And producing really good fruit in my life and in the lives of others. So, uh, that's something that is unique about men, right? That it, it doesn't work exactly the same way with women and, and that's okay that it doesn't. Um, but it is unique in that way with men that if we can get that piece dialed in, we can absolutely make a difference, uh, in, in our family's lives now and in generations of our family to come. Dude, I love that. I, I, I love what you're saying there. I, I think that's, um, so important for guys to hear because it's, man, it's the, it's the hope, right? It's the, it's the inspiration that we need to be able to say, this work is worth it. Like, this is hard. This is hard, but it's worth it because of the changes that we can make and the impact as men that we can have. So, yeah. Well said, man.

Larry Hagner 43:06

Thank you, man. I really appreciate that.

Don Ross 43:08

Yeah. Okay. So, uh, here as we get ready to wrap up, I do want to give you an opportunity. I'd love to hear some about, uh, your latest book, the Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. So, tell us, uh, what's it mean to be a legendary father?

Larry Hagner 43:21

Oh man. So by the way, I have to ask, how old are you, Don?

Don Ross 43:28

Uh, uh, take a guess. Put you on the hot spot.

Larry Hagner 43:32

30

Don Ross 43:33

Oh, thank you

Larry Hagner 43:34

You have an 18 in the 16. I'm like, what?

Don Ross 43:37

46.

Larry Hagner 43:38

No, you're not.

Don Ross 43:39

Yeah, 46.

Larry Hagner 43:40

Dang.

Don Ross 43:41

the hair. The hair throws people off.

Larry Hagner 43:44

Okay. I just had to, yeah, just quick clarifying question there. Uh, so pursuit of

Don Ross 43:49

great, man. Appreciate it. I'll, I'll, I'll take all the compliments I can get in that arena.

Larry Hagner 43:53

Well, the,

Don Ross 43:54

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 43:54

another reason I ask, because when you said that, I was like, oh man, he's been a dad for 18 years, so you'll understand this. I think more so. book, how do you be a legendary dad? Right. So there's a, there's a story with the title. Um, when I first was writing this book, I spoke in an event and there was a publishing company that was actually at the event. And this guy who owned it, he was the CEO, me aside after my talk and he's like, Hey man, I loved your talk. He's like, you got a book coming out? I was like, yeah. he's like, when, when do you wanna launch it? Do you have a publisher? I was like, no, I was just gonna self-publish. He's like, well, any thoughts on wanting to go through a publisher? And I was like, I've considered it. Sure. And he's like, so anyway. He goes, goes, what's the title? I said, the Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood. And he goes, it seems kinda long for a title. He goes, why not just call it legendary fatherhood? And this is where you'll understand.

Don Ross 44:43

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 44:43

at him, I smile and I go, you're not a dad, are you? and he goes,

Don Ross 44:50

Uh, yes.

Larry Hagner 44:51

yeah. And he goes, uh, no, no. And he's like, in his mid forties, right? And

Don Ross 44:56

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Larry Hagner 44:57

did you know? And I go, because you would know that there's no such thing as legendary fatherhood. There's

Don Ross 45:02

dude. Right?

Larry Hagner 45:03

it,

Don Ross 45:03

Truth. Truth.

Larry Hagner 45:05

yeah. So the title is not a destination, it's a journey. Right? It's the journey to that because no one ever gets to the end of their life and be like, I did that amazing and

Don Ross 45:14

Oh, I crushed that. Yeah.

Larry Hagner 45:15

Right? Um,

Don Ross 45:17

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 45:18

is all about growth, right? The book is divided up into four sections. One is called the Drift. That's the drift is exactly what you and I described a man's world. That's really what the drift is. You and I, we, we spent probably half the time talking about that

Don Ross 45:32

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 45:32

that world looks like. The second part of the book is marriage, and that's because marriage needs to come first. have to have a solid foundation for the whole family. If the foundation foundation's terrible, the whole family's gonna struggle and crumble.

Don Ross 45:45

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 45:46

Third part is fatherhood. Fourth part is leadership and literally don. I wanted to write a book where I could be like, I almost want, and, and not to compare it. Please, please. I'm a very faith-based person. I, I, but I thought to myself, I want like a documented sort of like bible in a way

Don Ross 46:04

Mm-hmm.

Larry Hagner 46:04

we've ever taught and everything we've ever learned in these, in these areas.

Don Ross 46:08

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 46:09

I put everything in it that we've ever taught and learned and that kind of thing. So I just literally like, Hey, this has been the past 10 years. This

Don Ross 46:17

Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Uh, dude. Okay. Uh, who, who's it for? What, what guy is it. for that you would say you like, this is the guy that you would give the book to?

Larry Hagner 46:29

Good question being that 2% of people actually finish a book that they're given,

Don Ross 46:33

Right. And probably less than that of men, but yes.

Larry Hagner 46:36

right. Yeah. Um, I wanted to write a book where, um, a man could pull it off the shelf and no matter what was going on in his life. Maybe it's marriage like, Hey, let me open this marriage section. I'm having a hard time communicating with my wife. Maybe I can learn that skill of tactical empathy with validation. Again, just read that one chapter. There it is.

Don Ross 46:54

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 46:55

Maybe it's more patience with my kid. You know, read, read that, right? Maybe it's, how do I Raise a daughter? It's that, or a son. It's that. So who's the book for This sounds really, really bad, but it's for any man in any season of his life. If he's married with kids.

Don Ross 47:12

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 47:12

because. No matter what that, no matter what it is, you're either gone through it, going through it, or you're gonna go through it, and

Don Ross 47:21

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 47:21

will help you navigate those things.

Don Ross 47:23

Yeah. Fantastic. Uh, guys, if you're not already convinced, uh, by the, the wisdom that you've heard from Larry on this episode so far, uh, I don't know what else to give you, um, but you can tell, uh, there's a lot here that he has to offer, uh, a decade's worth of dad wisdom. Um, you know, would be an invaluable treasure. So, uh, I want these guys to pick up the book, um, and I know you've got kind of a special offer for us, uh, as a way to be able to get it. So, uh, tell us about that.

Larry Hagner 47:52

Do so, um, you can obviously buy it on Amazon. but if you want to buy it from me personally, I, I sign the books that go out and that kind thing, not that creates any more value for it. In fact, it probably hurts it. But anyway, uh, if you buy the book from me, I'll send it to you personally and I sign it. But the, the bonus really is, is um, I've had two courses that have been really, really popular and they're 500 bucks a piece. One is called Creating More Patience in the Chaos, and the other one's called Creating Extraordinary Marriage through Elevated Communication, connection and Intimacy. If you buy the book from me for 28 bucks, you get free access to those right away. Because here's the thing, books are not read, but a lot of courses are, are watched

Don Ross 48:32

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 48:33

I want to, I figure, you know what, if a guy's gonna go buy a book on Amazon that's telling me he wants information now.

Don Ross 48:39

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 48:40

the book will get there, but you can dive into the courses immediately and start getting knowledge right away.

Don Ross 48:46

Fantastic. Uh, guys.

Larry Hagner 48:48

probably, should give the website for

Don Ross 48:49

Yes. Thank you. I was gonna ask, but yes.

Larry Hagner 48:51

If you go to the dad edge.com/legendary book, again, I, I couldn't, I didn't wanna write the whole title in there, so it's just the dad edge.com/legendary book. That's where that, that offer for your audience is.

Don Ross 49:03

Awesome. Yeah. Uh, incredible value, incredible wisdom. Uh, thank you man. Uh, I know this is. gonna be a tremendous help to so many guys. Larry, uh, It's been awesome to have you here on the show today. Uh, dude, what you've experienced being in this space and being able to lead men the way that you have, uh, I'm really grateful for it as someone who is following in your footsteps now at this point, and, uh, and, and super glad to have a man like you, uh, helping other men out. So thank you. Uh, guys, I hope you'll take advantage of all that Larry has to offer, and, uh, it's been good having you, man.

Larry Hagner 49:34

It's been great to be here. And by the way, will you put one more thing in the show notes?

Don Ross 49:38

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 49:40

Can you put in the directions of Fountain of Youth, because obviously you have found it.

Don Ross 49:47

I, you know, man, I would tell you that it comes from, uh, having and being around kids, But the older that I've gotten and the more I've been around other guys who have kids my age, I'm not sure that that's right anymore. So, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. My wife is older than I am and looks younger than I am, so there's something in the water at our house, but yeah.

Larry Hagner 50:06

wow, man, that's awesome. Well, I, I just turned 50 this year or last year. I say I'm gonna be 51 this year. the, the funny thing is I just did career day at my kids' school. I was in my, my 10 year old's class, and they're like, he's 50. He's, he kept saying it like, and all the kids were like, no, you're not. I'm like, you're 30, 38. I'm

Don Ross 50:26

Yeah.

Larry Hagner 50:27

actually 50 July 6th, 1975,

Don Ross 50:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just own it and to a 10-year-old, 50 is like ancient. You might as well be dead, you know?

Larry Hagner 50:35

It's like, you might as well like just drive really slow and read the newspaper.

Don Ross 50:40

Uh, Yeah. That's great. That's awesome. Alright dude, uh, Thank you so much for being on the show today. Uh, really excited for guys getting to watch this and be a part of it. Appreciate you.

Larry Hagner 50:49

Thank you, Don.