The Social Athlete
A weekly podcast exploring the upper limits of social fitness and relationship success.
The Social Athlete
Matt Becker on the Art of Sober Socializing & Building Authentic Professional Networks
Matt Becker is Owner & CEO of Cement Cutting Inc., one of the top demolition contractors in California. More importantly, Matt is a true social athlete (and one of my best friends).
When I met Matt in 2014, he was one of the all-time San Diego party legends. He has now been sober for three years. Through it all, Matt has always magnetized great people and brought out the best in them.
In this episode, we discuss Matt's social life before and after sobriety, the benefits and tradeoffs of sober socializing, and the importance of living with integrity. Then Matt explains how intentionally blurring the lines between his personal and professional lives makes both better.
This episode is not just a conversation; it's a masterclass in becoming a social athlete. I hope you get as much out of it as I did.
00:00 - Introducing Matt Becker
06:26 - Matt's Love/Hate Relationship with Alcohol
09:56 - The Benefits & Tradeoffs of Sober Socializing
17:33 - Matt's Social Development Timeline
24:28 - Building Authentic Professional Networks
30:18 - The Power of Positivity and Gratitude
41:53 - Social Role Models (Zack Morris)
43:55 - Overcoming Shyness and Insecurity
48:11 - The Danger of Disconnecting at Work
Hello and welcome to the Social Athlete. I'm your host, casey Wright. Today we're going to have our first interview with a bona fide social athlete. This is one of my good friends, matthew Becker. I met him back in 2014 for the first time. We went on a group trip to World Cup in Brazil and it was a three week extravaganza where we traveled all throughout Brazil and ended up in Peru, and within a few hours I knew that Matt was going to be a big part of my life for a long time to come. We were instant besties and have continued a great friendship to this day. He's one of these people that I am 100% confident is a social athlete. Every single person that meets and knows Matt loves him. The people who know him best love him most and he is truly a magnet for good people. Matt has introduced me to some of my favorite people since I met him back in 2014. And everyone that he spends time with it just seems to be a really high quality human being who really loves him. He has an awesome wife, kendra, and a beautiful dog, marley. He is the CEO of Cement Cutting Inc. Leading Demolition Contractor in Southern California. He basically gets to break stuff all day, which is pretty cool.
Casey Wright:In this interview, we cover a lot. Part of what we cover is the complicated relationship between drinking and socializing. Matt, as you'll hear, is somebody who gave up drinking a few years ago. If you knew Matt prior to that decision, there's probably nobody that you would have nominated as less likely to make that decision than Matt. He was somebody who really built his social life on the foundation of the openness that alcohol provides, and removing that from his life, as you'll see, was something that was challenging. But he's really come through on the other side and I think that's something that's really instructive for those of us that are considering, as we get into this new year, drinking less or maybe even quitting drinking altogether. Matt is somebody who can speak very soberly, no pun intended, about that choice, about the trade-offs and, specifically, how to maintain relationships throughout that decision and after that decision. We also talk quite a bit about how he lives a fully integrated life.
Casey Wright:You'll see, matt is a person who draws no lines between business and personal friends. He is always socializing and always working, and I think that is something that is very instructive for those of us who are considering how to be social athletes. Matt seems to be somebody who always has this social switch flipped on, and I think that's something that is a key component of his success. And then, finally, we get into why Zach Morris is probably the greatest social role model of all time. I got a lot out of this conversation. I think you will too, so let's go ahead and meet our first social athlete. I'm very happy today to have my very good friend, one of my favorite human beings on the entire planet, matthew Becker. How you doing, matt?
Matt Becker:I'm doing fantastic. Casey, thank you for having me on. It is an honor to be on your show.
Casey Wright:Look at us. We sound like a formal host of guests. People might ask why this-?
Matt Becker:Right, I tried so hard not to laugh, but here we go already, so we've almost applauded. No, I want you to laugh.
Casey Wright:I want people to get the full you. I want the full experience. I don't want this to feel like anything is not. This is two friends shooting the shit, and I should say right at the outset that we're going to-. So far, this podcast has been clean. We're going to rip that band-aid off right now. This is going to be an explicit podcast from here on out. There's no way I want to put you or me in that box for this conversation. So let it rip. This is adult entertainment tonight.
Matt Becker:I'm into it. I try not to cuss, just in general. I feel like it limits your vocabulary, but if I'm feeling the urge I will say a couple of bombs, don't you worry.
Casey Wright:Hey, we can keep it clean if you want to. Is that really your philosophy? Now you don't cuss. I don't remember that about you.
Matt Becker:No, no, no, I try to when I do cuss, I wanted to mean something and not just cussing, just to cuss. I like that. I feel like, yeah, I pick my spots. I feel like there's more emphasis when I cuss. They're like oh shit, if I cuss, you will hate it.
Casey Wright:Part of it is. I feel like we've had a few of our conversations over the years in kind of a party space where we're going to let loose, we're going to say what's on our mind. But you also have another side of you which I don't get to see as often, which is that you are now the CEO of a big company. So I imagine that animates a little bit the way you interact with people.
Matt Becker:Now, right, Unfortunately, that's correct, and I do need to appear a little bit more professional than you, and I have fortunately gotten to know each other on a personal level and not every one of my clients knows me like you do, which is wonderful, because I would not have the abundance of clients if they all knew me like you did. So I'm grateful for my friendship with you and my discretion with my other clients.
Casey Wright:Yes, Fair enough. Fair enough, I've always found interesting about you as it does seem like you do a really good job of finding the line here right Because you do have I think you have the respect of everybody that you work with. I see that, whatever I've interacted with either your employees or your clients or partners Anytime I see it it's just absolutely clear how much everybody admires you and respects you and enjoys spending time with you. But also, I really do feel like you're yourself. You don't seem like this cartoon CEO version of yourself. I really do feel like it's pretty well integrated. Do you think that's not true?
Matt Becker:I do think that's true. I've often said in my career this isn't my job, this isn't my career, this is my life and this is what I've chosen to do. And it is so freeing to feel like I could be honest with everyone in my life and I don't need to hold back anything. I don't need to pretend like I'm someone to a client versus a friend. I try to be the same person in every interaction that I have and, honestly, it's so freeing to feel that way, to feel like you can go into any situation and not need to pretend like I'm this or that and I can just be myself. And it's a great feeling. I don't know why, but it's something that I feel like I've adopted only recently and, trust me, I just feel like I can be myself and it is a wonderful feeling to have.
Casey Wright:So you mentioned that you feel like that just happened recently. What do you feel like changed? What was the? Was there a pivot point or is this just a gradual realization?
Matt Becker:The easy answer would be I stopped drinking about three years ago and I think there was something about alcohol and at least my communication, where it wasn't always exactly how I wanted it to come across. And I feel like now that I don't drink alcohol anymore, I have complete conviction with how I operate, how I talk to people and there's nothing that I can't say. Or you wake up in the morning and you're like whoa, what happened last night? What did I talk about? And I don't have those uneasy feelings anymore. I have complete conviction of what I said and how I wanted it to come across.
Casey Wright:Interesting. So the idea of basically having a completely connected consciousness where you're not losing these gaps or mistrusting what you said or mistrusting how you interact with people Now, every interaction is something that's a full version of your most honest and purest intention. You can trust, that and that allows you to act with more integrity in the world is that kind of what you're saying?
Matt Becker:Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying and it's not going to be for everyone, of course, the exact direction I was thinking we would go right off the bat and you know, it's probably going to have people a lot of people click off this podcast, unfortunately, because I feel like it's a it goes so well with being social and drinking and they kind of often go hand in hand and it was that was my love hate relationship a little bit with being social is I was kind of a professional partier on some level and I often thought that it was one of the best things and the worst things about me is that I was always ready to go grab a drink with a buddy and kind of prioritize socializing and fraternizing with a little bit more of my business in that regard.
Matt Becker:But for me it's just been such a healthy turning point in my life, so that's why I feel like I can walk into anywhere and just have that confidence in that next level of knowing that I've not kind of said something dumb or stupid, at least in the last couple years.
Casey Wright:So I'm really interested on this and this is really a big part of why I want to have this conversation is because I've known you pre, you know pre quitting drinking and I've known you post quitting drinking and you are a beautiful, awesome person that everybody loves before and after, and so I understand the internal feelings you were saying about not always trusting yourself, not feeling like you're your most honest version of yourself. We've talked about that and I want to explore more of that. But from the outside, it always appeared that you were somebody who kind of knew what you were doing, that, especially on a social standpoint, right, that I never felt like, wow, matt is one of these people who, just you know, doesn't know how to connect with other people, or he really goes overboard, or and I know you had your I'm sure you have your experiences, as everybody who drinks a little too much does. I've certainly got mine. But what I'm curious about is that it does seem like you've been a social athlete throughout this entire period, the way I would define it, which is to say you've had Loving relationships, people who deeply care about you, people who you care about. I think you felt well supported by the people in your life and I know you've always been there for the people in your life. I know that's something that I felt and I feel like most of the people I've known you, that I know that, have known you for a while feel the same way. But you've done something that I think a lot of people struggle with. And you're saying you think people are going to click off this podcast. I think is exactly why people are going to want to break up. Listen, because I know so many people that really struggle with this.
Casey Wright:It's the beginning of the year and every person I know has some version of I'm going to sober January. I'm done drinking. I, you know, I'm going to reduce drinking. I'm only drinking wine, I'm only whatever.
Casey Wright:Everybody's got something, because everyone recognizes this trade off right of this idea of how alcohol brings you together. It becomes this sort of signaling that hey, we're going to let loose tonight, we're going to be more honest with each other, we're going to open up, and it becomes this lubricant for relationships but at the same time it's physically destructive. It's one of the most self destructive habits you can have and I think everybody feels this tension and I think everybody wants to know how to come through on the other side. How do you? How do you stop drinking and maintain your relationships and I think you're somebody who has something to say about that. So I'd love to understand a little bit what your journey was on that, what parts of it seem like they work for you, what parts you would do differently if you're doing all over again, because I suspect there are a lot of people right now that are evaluating a similar decision.
Matt Becker:Yeah, and it's hard for me to give a broad description for everyone, because it's not for everyone. Choosing to drink and not drink and be social or not social is your own personal choice, and I try to only encourage people to do what's right for them and for me, it was clearly the right decision to stop drinking, for several reasons. It has been got me more healthier is my connection with my wife has gotten stronger, and I thought that this wouldn't happen. But my connection with my best friends have gotten stronger as well, and I think that you know I don't spend as much time at a bar stool with them chatting about sports and different things, but my connection with people is so much more genuine and real and my connection is on a deeper level than ever before and I just feel really empowered to try to this guide myself on this path, and I don't try to convince anyone to stop drinking that's not my agenda but I certainly feel comfortable sharing my story with you and anyone who would ever care to listen.
Casey Wright:So I'm curious. The way you make it sound is I quit drinking and everything just got better instantly and permanently and there was no challenge to it. And I have to imagine there was more to it than that, and that's kind of. What I want to dig into is what you said that you got closer to all of your friends. I can't imagine that's true. There must have been a couple that fell off right like I know you were really good at managing this choice. But I also know that when I've tried to get healthier, no matter how much I try and manage that choice, there's some people who are just offended by it or take it personally. You know it's hard for them To not see. Well, if we used to drink together all the time and you're stopping drinking, how is that not telling me we're not hanging out all the time anymore? You know like some people just see it that way and it seems I do. You really feel like there was just no downsides, or no, you're not wrong whatsoever.
Matt Becker:There are a few downsides and first of all, let me start by saying this was the hardest thing I've ever done. Downside was extreme. It was very difficult for me.
Matt Becker:I felt that alcohol was a big reason why I was, you know, possibly the social athlete that I was in maybe am, because, you know, I thought I was an alcoholic for a long time and a friend told me I was just a funaholic and I think that made a lot more sense to me that I just wanted to have a bunch of fun with people and I want to surround myself with good people and people that I feel like, have this positive energy and outlook on life and enjoy the things, the same types of Activities and or sports games and concerts or traveling and it was just always so much easier to do that with a beer in your hand or a cocktail. But To say that it was easy isn't true. It was very difficult. The first few Functions that I went to without drinking was tough. It was hard to see other people drinking. It was hard to see them go from sober to, you know, getting drunk and feeling like I was missing out on some of that camaraderie and bonding. That happens when you're drunk with someone.
Casey Wright:So do you feel like? Do you feel like there are some relationships that got worse and, if so, is there a common feature between the ones that got better and the ones that got worse? In other words, can you kind of start to pick out what type of relationships will withstand the getting sober and which ones won't?
Matt Becker:My immediate relationships all improved, ones with my wife, ones with my family and co workers and really close friends. They all improved. But you're right, my periphery buddies, the ones that you know, maybe clients that we would only Go out drinking from time to time, those have probably fallen off. And the ones that my only connection with other people was drinking, those have fallen off as well. But I think, as the social athlete that I am, in my mind it's probably more quality over quantity, and it's hard for me to say that, because I do feel like I have a large number of friends, but I still feel like I hold them in high regard and I try to spend as much time with them as possible.
Casey Wright:So that syncs up a lot with what I would kind of expect and that makes a lot of sense, right that the people who care about you the most and the people who know you the best and have the most interest in you having a really good life, they're happy about this. They're like well great, you're getting healthier, you're getting sharper, you're getting better. I'm on board. But the people who use you as a social crutch to do these kind of mutually self-destructive behaviors, those are the people who are gonna fall away because, well, you're not that crutch for them anymore.
Matt Becker:Right, right. Yeah, I would set up happy hours on a regular basis and basically those have fallen off a little bit. I've started a different organization to try to get people to do different functions. But yeah, my normal Thursdays at the high dive are few and far between these days.
Casey Wright:Oh wow, are they still in business. Oh yeah, oh yeah I'm surprised they were still at your sobriety. That must have been tough for them. They took a hit with the technology All in the space of a couple of years.
Matt Becker:That was the perfect storm form, so, but they're still around.
Casey Wright:Well, cool, I wanna start now. We've kind of jumped all around and I'm gonna keep doing that, a because I'm bad at this and B because I just get curious and wanna kind of double click on something, so that'll keep happening. But I wanted to start by just kind of charting a little bit what your social history is, just kind of from the point that you feel is relevant. So, either elementary school, junior high, high school and of course I don't need detailed exposés but just generally, how did you feel socially? Did you feel included? Did you feel like an outcast? Did you have a couple of friends? Did you have a lot of friends? Were there certain pivot points throughout your childhood development where you felt like, hey, I'm finding my footing, or, hey, I really feel lost? I think most people have something of a roller coaster throughout these years, and so I'd love to hear just kind of a general kind of lifeline explanation of how your social life went over, kind of from when you can remember to now.
Matt Becker:Sure well, thank you. So I grew up in and around San Diego. I went to a few elementary schools growing up and I feel like that helped my social I guess just communication and trying to make new friends. I probably went to four different elementary schools and then while I was doing that I played team sports as well. So my social skills growing up were diverse a little bit, where I had a few different groups of friends my baseball buddies and my basketball team and my soccer friends, as well as my classmates. In high school I played two different sports. I played lacrosse on a team sport and I wrestled, which is obviously an individual sport. So I kind of learned a little bit of what I enjoyed personally and how. That kind of developed my skills as far as communicating with other people and trying to take on things on my own and take on things as a team.
Matt Becker:And I went to college. I went to University of Colorado in Boulder, go Buffs, and from then I kind of came into my own socially. Truth be told, I joined a fraternity and I ended up being the social chair of that fraternity and it was a ton of fun. I made a bunch of friends, had a great, great time and a great great college career. Tons of memories made and I still hold a bunch of my college buddies very close in my heart and we still see each other on a regular basis.
Matt Becker:So college was probably the time where I fell into my own socially and was able to reinvent myself. It was kind of a weird and fundamental fraying aspect with me, with kind of growing up in San Diego and the same community, if you will, and then going to Colorado where no one really knew who I was. So I kind of got to reinvent myself. No one knew my past or my history and it was kind of a fun way to just interact with people and I didn't know their history and just to try to be social on a bunch of different levels. But certainly alcohol was involved a lot during my college career, that's for sure.
Casey Wright:So I'm curious you talked about this opportunity to reinvent yourself in college and I'm wondering if that was something that you went into college with and if that factored into your decision to go out of state for college, or if that was something that, once you got there, you realized the opportunity and kind of seized on it. And then I'm also wondering how you chose to reinvent yourself, how you think version two of yourself was different from version one.
Matt Becker:Great point, so I failed to mention this but I guess I should have it. In high school I got a DUI and crashed my vehicle when I was 18. So I had a pretty bad accident and I kind of created a new circle of friends after that accident, should be told. I was kind of hanging out with guys that were more into the drinking aspect and partying and after that accident I shifted to or more of my lacrosse group of friends and that was a lot more healthy for me on so many different levels. So when I went into college I just kind of realized that I just have this wonderful opportunity to create new friendships with a bunch of different social circles, and that seemed to be one thing that I was excited to explore more and develop friendships on a different level.
Casey Wright:So let me get this straight. So you decided that you wanted to start friendships that were not built around alcohol. So you became the social director at a fraternity. Do I have?
Matt Becker:that right.
Casey Wright:Walk me through this.
Matt Becker:I don't think I felt like the alcohol part was an aspect of my life until a few years ago, so I might be a little bit off on that timeline.
Casey Wright:So okay. So you came in, though, and it was basically I don't want to get locked into a single group of friends, I want to have a broader, more diverse group of friends. I'm noticing this kind of as a theme in your life that even early on, you had a diverse group of friends and that's something you prioritized throughout life. I'm only a few weeks into this podcast, and that seems to be something that pops up over and over and over and over again in the social psychology research is that having a diverse network is one of the best ways that you can kind of defend yourself against all of the slings and arrows that life can throw at you and maintain social fitness Is.
Casey Wright:Having a broad and diverse network of friends means that you're never super dependent on any one or individual group of people for either your identity or your emotional support, and so and it seems like that's something that is a key feature of your life, and especially the parts of your life that you feel like were really where you socially evolve how do you think about that now? Because you know, as you get older, I feel like there's this natural narrowing down of your friend groups, right, like people just kind of fall away. You spend more time with fewer people. I feel like that's the natural direction of life. Is this something that you are consciously trying to maintain your life as diverse network of friends, or do you kind of give in to the natural narrowing that happens? How do you think about this as you kind of age and you know progress in life?
Matt Becker:It's kind of happened a little bit, not only just with socially, but in my career as well.
Matt Becker:So being a subcontractor in the construction world in San Diego means that I get to work for different contractors in San Diego, so I could either work for a general contractor, a subcontractor, or directly for the owner, and in doing that I have a broad opportunity to work with a bunch of different types of companies Work with electrical companies, plumbing companies, mechanical companies, paving companies, landscape companies, utility companies or general contractors, and in those spaces there are so many people that I have the ability to gain friendships with.
Matt Becker:And early on in my career basically I was told hey, go make a bunch of friends and try to get their work. And what I heard was make a bunch of friends. And now that I'm older I understand what that means to try to get work from them. And organically I've created these friends who have grown up in their careers also. So they have elevated themselves from being a project engineer to being a project manager, to maybe moving their careers. So maybe some friends that I was trying to get work from earlier in my career might be someone who provides work to someone else now in their career. So I'm kind of able to connect different levels of friends and help them be successful in their careers as well.
Casey Wright:You said something that I think is really interesting, which is that you started by just trying to be their friends and now, over time, that's evolved into relationships that are profitable for both of you. Do you think that it could have happened the other way around, like if you went into this thinking really about, with an eye on how I'm going to profit off this relationship? Do you think you would have engineered the same friendship? Or do you think that kind of not having an agenda is a key part of why you have this friendship that ultimately built this foundation for business?
Matt Becker:Yeah, there's no way I would have had genuine friendships if I went into the mindset of getting work from them first. It is getting to know them first and you know, some people have complimented my sales abilities and I. My rebuttal to that is I'm a terrible salesman. I just hope that I'm a good person and I hope that I represent a good company and I hope that my company will take care of my clients, like I tell them that I will, and I hope that my company can back up what I say and I try to be a reliable factor in an unreliable industry and unreliable trade.
Casey Wright:That sounds like a damn good sales pitch to me. You sound like a good salesman.
Matt Becker:Don't tell anyone.
Casey Wright:So this brings it to an interesting point. We've kind of danced around this a little bit, but you're, this is a major pivot point in your life. How long ago was it that you took over ownership of cement cutting, which is one of the largest demolition companies in Southern California, and now you are in charge of this behemoth. How long has it been now?
Matt Becker:It has been five months roughly since actually it might be six months in two days July 11th, we purchased the company. So it's not only me, I do have a business partner and I also want to say we're not the biggest, we're just the best.
Casey Wright:I will. To be fair, I said one of the biggest which.
Casey Wright:I think is true right that is true, that's awesome and I thought it was implied to the best, but I'm glad we made that explicit.
Casey Wright:So how is this, how does this change the way that you think about relationships, if at all?
Casey Wright:Because for me, being a business owner is one of, I feel like, simultaneously one of the most connective things and one of the most isolating things in the world. Socially, like it really it puts you out in the world and gives you all these opportunities to connect and do all these amazing things that you wouldn't be able to do if you had a traditional nine to five, but at the same time it can be very isolating, I mean, because at the end of the day, there is really no one else I can hand the work off to if it's not getting done, like it's kind of needs to get done. My nights and my weekends are never really my own. I'm never really off the clock, it's all. Your mind is always at work a little bit and nobody's ever going to feel sorry for you, right? Because you did this to yourself. And so there's kind of this, this both simultaneously connecting and isolating thing, and I'm wondering if you're feeling that tension or so how you're dealing with it six months in.
Matt Becker:I'm definitely feeling a little bit of pressure only because we've built our team in a great way. I feel that great that leaders are important in a company and that companies are people, and if you don't have the right leaders and the right people in the company, then I don't want to lead that company. I don't want to lead a mediocre demolition company. I want to lead a company and a group of men that have integrity and women and have this aura of honesty and trust, and we will all work hard together and we are a team aspect.
Matt Becker:Now, my biggest challenge at work, with all my new roles and responsibilities, is my time management, and To get the time that I've wanted before to do some sales calls is more of a challenge than ever before, and so that's why it is even more important for me to analyze these friendships and which ones I want to build upon, which ones I feel like you know I can neglect, maybe for a month or two, because they're my great friends, and which ones I really need to nurture and try to give more attention to and I'm evolving as this is going on, for sure, but my way to do this is to hire the right people to let me do what I do. I believe that I've explained to my team well enough that the best asset that I can provide to my company is not within the walls of the structure that my company exists in. It's going to be out there, client interfacing and time with clients is time well spent and I need to be out there in front of my company providing them with the opportunities to be successful.
Casey Wright:I want to dig in now just kind of some rapid fire questions about how you came to develop your personal philosophy and skill set around socializing. And the first one is Do you have any personal mantras or philosophies that animate your interactions with other people, guiding principles that you think are important?
Matt Becker:I do, and I like to give a shout out to my dad, greg Becker, who taught me at a very early age you know, take the best qualities you see in me and try to adopt those. Take the best qualities you see in your mother, try to adopt those and just try to be the best version you can of each of us. Neither of us are perfect. We have our good qualities and bad, and I've tried my best to adopt those as I've matured and aged in my life. So that's been one. My other philosophy is just around yourself with good people. Another one's, honestly the best policy and don't get better, get better. And so I try to stay unapologetically optimistic, and Steve Jobs said this but the only way to do great work is to love what you do. So I try to convince myself that that I do love what I do, and the more I say that to myself, the more it's reinforced.
Casey Wright:I love it. You said it that way because I think it's. I mean, you don't have a sexy company, right, it's a great company and you run it well, but it's not a sexy company, but you are, and I love the way that you think about this, which is that it's your job to make yourself love your job. But I'm curious what that practice looks like. Is there anything formal to that? Do you have a gratitude practice around this? Is it? Is it really just kind of a mindset shift that you try to constantly reinforce, or is there, is there, some real practice to this?
Matt Becker:Well, there's certainly aspects of my job that I do not like and it is stressful and it is.
Matt Becker:There's pressure on me to provide work and the balance of being a fair and just owner, and there's a combination of the many different challenges.
Matt Becker:But I think being Grateful for what I have is super important. You know, a few months ago a friend of mine told me about a gratitude rock that he has, and it was actually on a golf trip that he taught me about this and I didn't quite fully understand what he was talking about. And he had me watch this movie called the Secret. And I watched the Secret several months later and still didn't quite understand. You know exactly what it all meant until I grabbed a gratitude rock, put it in my pocket, played some golf the next day and had the best round of my life. Now, since then, I don't give all the credit to the rock, but I've kept that rock in my pocket ever since and I try to spread the word of the gratitude rock, which is simply the attitude of gratitude and it's just to be thankful for what you have, and I believe that having a more positive mindset in general will help you be more social and will help you, in general, be more likeable to the people that you're trying to be social with.
Casey Wright:So a gratitude rock is. It's been a while since I read the Secret and I don't remember specifically what the gratitude rock was, but I imagine it's a rock you keep in your pocket that every time you feel it it reminds you to be grateful or to express gratitude for something. Is that?
Matt Becker:No, you nailed it and you know I keep it in my pocket just because I want to carry it with me all the time. A lot of people will put on their desk or by their bed and it's just a reminder for people to just appreciate what you have and that thoughts become things and the more that you think about something, the more you're likely to manifest that into your life. So the more negative thoughts you give to yourself and the more time you give to bad things in your past, the more chance you're gonna get to duplicate those.
Casey Wright:So I'm curious about this. You talk about being positive and from my mind, you seem like one of the most eternally optimistic people I've ever met, and I've spent weeks with you at a time where we've been on vacations together, spending literally every minute of every day together. If you weren't a really positive person, I would have found out right Like you really are a positive person, and it doesn't seem like there's any. There's really no cracks in the armor there, which is surprising me. You've spent enough time with me to know that I'm not the same way, that I can lose it, that I can get upset, that I can get frustrated, that I can get disappointed. And I'm wondering like to me, I know how to be positive.
Casey Wright:I think I'm generally a positive person, but it takes effort. I need to be, I need to be well fed, I need to be well rested. I need to, you know, I need to be comfortable, I need to have a point and a purpose that day. I need to be surrounded by people I like. It's like there's so many things that need to be in place in order for me to have a positive outlook, and it looks like you don't need that, and I'm wondering is that something that you were born with? Is that a skill? Is it effort? How do you think about this Like? Do you experience the same gravitational pull towards negativity that I do, or do you feel like you have a natural buoyancy that's pushing you towards positivity?
Matt Becker:That's a great question.
Matt Becker:I think it would be so easy for me to be negative.
Matt Becker:I can tell you so many things about my day to day that did not go great and did not go perfect. I mean, we don't have enough time on this podcast to get into all the negative aspects of my life but is so much more encouraging for me to try to become self aware and to try to understand those negatives as learning lessons and to try to build off of that and to try to understand. And I think what I gained, at least over the last couple of years, more than knowledge, has been wisdom. And that's to understand that, even though I have this vision of my company and where I want it to go and how I want to be, this leader that I'm striving to be is, I can't control everything and there's gonna be aspects to what I receive on a daily basis that gives me what I not what I want, but what I need. And I feel that I have a deep understanding that life won't be perfect, but it will be better if I have a positive attitude.
Casey Wright:I think that's certainly true. It seems like it comes easier to you than me. Do you think that's true?
Matt Becker:I would say that that's true, but I can't tell you why. Because, for example, I mean we've been in several situations and only one comes to mind where we were on a trip in Peru and our buddy Brett was kind of bugging you and some other things were kind of bugging you and you need a little time to yourself. And I was like, dude, go for it, good for you. Dude, take a day, man, and I'm proud of you. You cruise around Peru all by yourself. And we were like, okay, he's taking some time for himself. And I appreciate and respected that a ton that was still in our you didn't know you phase a little bit and you handled that well. So I learned from you as you are from me. I can promise you that.
Casey Wright:It's funny you said that. So that was actually probably the first time that I realized that on a long group vacation I need to schedule a me day every like really like five to six days. That was like we were going on three weeks and but I really realized that I need that. Like I'm just that's just something. I need alone time, like I need time to recharge, and but it doesn't seem like you need the same thing. It seems like you're somebody who really enjoys being around people. I feel like you get energy from people. Do you feel like you need time alone to recharge, or is that something that you really are just your batteries or kind of always folding around other people?
Matt Becker:I think it's a little bit of. I've been conditioned that way and it's a little bit. In my professional life it's kind of been what I've known and been used to. But now I think you're right is that it fuels me and I, you know, I work harder in the day and then when it's a social function that I might need to go to in the evening, I'm more excited than I'm bummed. To be honest with you, I feel like the more I go to these little mixers and different things, I get excited, I say. Anytime that I get to meet one person at these events, it made it worth its while and I challenge myself to try to be the best version of myself in these group settings and I usually there's very few events that I know zero people at, and if I do, then even better. That's an event that I want to be at, but usually I'll have a couple of friends and they'll introduce me to a couple of friends and I do feel like it is something that is less draining to me than to most people.
Casey Wright:One of the things that I find fascinating about this is that you know so much of the advice. I feel like some people are going to be annoyed. They're going to be like really, honesty is the best policy. If I meet one person like you think this is, this is such cliche stuff. But the difference is you actually believe it. I've been telling myself this shit for 20 years and I can't get myself to believe it Like you know what I mean.
Casey Wright:I believe in an intellectual level, know, if I meet one person at a networking event, it's worth it. But when I think of a networking event, I think about getting caught in the corner talking to two people I don't want to talk to for 40 minutes and just looking at my watch and wanting to leave. I don't think about meeting that one person. But it really seems like you do you really like embody these, these beliefs, which are obviously very adaptive, about socializing that I think I just have a ton of of for whatever reason. I have a ton of psychological resistance to accepting these things that intellectually I I think are true, but I just emotionally have a really hard time believing them.
Matt Becker:Well, and I'm with you and I feel like, at some level, I feel like I'm a walking cliche, because I have all these sayings that I say because they're easily repeatable and I do believe in them. And it's easy because people will have these understandings. When I say these types of things and if they're worded the right way, you know, I'll say multiple times not because I think they're they're bullshit, it's because I want to be a man in conviction, I want to be a man of my word, and when I say some things to other people, it only reinforces the fact that, yes, I want to follow through with what I'm saying to people, because once I throw, it out in the universe.
Matt Becker:There's a damn good chance that I'm going to follow through with it.
Casey Wright:I like that, I like it. So it's part of it's part of reinforcing your commitment to these ideas is saying them constantly, keeping it simple, keeping it consistent, and I can say, like I said, I've known you for years. If, if, if this was bullshit, I would know by now. And it's not like you. Really you live these things. It's not just that you say them, you believe them, you live them and it shows up and I think in a lot of ways to testament to maybe the playbook simpler than we think it is.
Casey Wright:You know it's more just about. You know it's kind of like if you want to be healthy, you know there's all sorts of advanced diets and workouts, but we've kind of known how to be healthy for a long time. You know it's kind of move and you know don't eat too much and eat healthy and get a good night's rest and hydrate, like we've kind of known for a long time. There's probably a little bit more you can do, but at the end of the day, the basics are pretty simple and we've known them for a long time and maybe when it comes down to social fitness and relationships, that 80% part it's pretty simple stuff. You know it's the basics. It really is being positive, staying focused on other people, as you said, being honest, living with integrity, living with gratitude. I mean these things pop up over and over and over again, having a diverse group of friends and really trying to see the best in every situation, and it seems like you really live these things.
Matt Becker:Well, once you have those foundations, they truly become more fun and they truly become an aspect of your life that you will enjoy, and you will enjoy going to these different functions and challenging yourself to meet people or have great conversations with people, and challenging yourself to go deeper than before and getting out of your comfort zone and kind of these things that you know if you're probably listening to this, you're either really good at this or you want to be really good at socializing and it's really just it's going to take practice from people, but it's going to take a commitment also.
Casey Wright:So you mentioned it. One of the things your dad told you early on was hey, I'm not a perfect role model, your mom's not a perfect role model, but there are things you can learn from both of us. I'm wondering do you have something that you think of as an idealized role model for social fitness or for socializing, either real or fictionalized? I mean, when I was growing up I remember thinking that if I could be like Zach Morris, everybody would like me, because everybody likes Zach Morris, right, and he was just smart and cool and it literally like defined the way that I thought of myself and tried to act socially. You know, probably until at least junior high or my first couple of years of high school, and I realized that's just a TV show and it's not realistic. But but I'm wondering if you have anything like that, either real or fictionalized, somebody you really look up to, that animated the way you thought about what social success looks like.
Matt Becker:I mean I feel like you might have stolen my notes for some reason, but Zach Morris and say by the bell has been always my after school special TV show growing up and he was one of the most social guys you could ever meet, the cool guy in school, and everyone wanted to be Zach Morris and not to sound weird. But I look up to you in your social situations and surroundings and I feel like you are the perfect person to be doing this podcast and I could say with 100% conviction that you are a social role model of mine and I am so proud of what you've built and what you're continuing to build and it is a testament to how aware you are and have been in this aspect of your life and you know safe to say that you are the best person that I know that has done this since the moment I met you. To be honest with you, well, thank you. That really means a lot to me.
Casey Wright:I think one of the things that I'm fascinated by and why all reasons I really wanted this to be one of the first conversations I had on this podcast is because you and I think feel the same way about people and relationships in terms of what we want to be and how we want to be, but again, I feel like it comes so much more naturally to you and I feel like it's a lot more effort for me, and I think that's probably been true throughout our lives. I was a really shy kid and I'm wondering were you ever a really shy kid Like? Was there ever a point in your life where you felt insecure, like you didn't belong, or like you were nervous or you were worried about how people would think of you? Definitely, and how did that change and when did that change? Well, great question.
Matt Becker:So I had actually pretty bad skin acne in high school and kind of in college and even post college and that was kind of tough for my social upbringing.
Matt Becker:To be honest with you, like if I had a big old pimple on my forehead it might not have been my best motivating factor to go out and maybe meet girls that night because I was self-conscious about my physical appearance. So there has certainly been a relatively large a few years where I didn't feel my best version of myself, maybe just physically, and so I feel like once I grew up a little bit more, my skin cleared up and realized that well, I guess it wasn't my acne that was holding me back, it was just my mindset of my acne. And I feel like you know a lot of people listening might not have that problem, but I feel like anyone that looks in the mirror. I promise you you notice your acne a lot more than anyone else does and try not to be self-conscious about it and, trust me, you probably look really, really good. So try not to worry about that as much.
Casey Wright:I think it's such a good point. I mean, obviously it extends far beyond acne, right it's?
Casey Wright:anything that, you think, is all people are looking at. One of my favorite quotes is we wouldn't worry about what people thought of us so much if we realized how seldom they did. People are just caught in their own worlds, right, like people are caught in their own worlds and they're not really thinking about you. They're certainly not remembering what you wore yesterday or noticing that your nail was chipped or whatever small, little micro infraction that you think is such a social faux pas, but it does.
Casey Wright:It can feel like that, especially when you're younger, right? I mean when you don't have that perspective and that experience and you don't know that these temporary things are temporary, right, they're just your world. You know, and I think I remember just how intense things felt, you know, being 16, 17, 18, like just these things that were small experiences and how big they felt. And now big experiences don't feel nearly as big as those small things, you know, and it's just when you're smaller the world seems bigger. You know, and I think that's one of those things that age. What you were talking about wisdom, I think a lot of it is that perspective that you get as you see more things in your rear view and the world starts to get a little smaller and more manageable. You know, as you start to kind of understand a little bit your place in it.
Matt Becker:Absolutely. I think just the wisdom in my mind has just been very profound for me to understand what I can and can't control and to understand the difference.
Casey Wright:That's interesting. One of the things that this is where my frustration always comes in is with the things that I think I should be able to control but that I can't. That's where I lose it. So I think what you're saying is very wise, but I'm wondering what does that look like practically in everyday life? Because I'm sure you must have things that you thought you should have had controlled, that just blow up in your face, or things that you thought you had planned that didn't actually work out. How do you think about that? How do you deal with those kind of setbacks and keep your social fitness in those moments?
Matt Becker:Well, it's because it's the mantra, at least for me again, it's surround yourself with good people. The more social I can be. It fills me personally and, let's be honest, professionally it helps as well. So that's the beauty of what I do A little bit also is my friends become my clients and it becomes so much easier for me to get to work with them because they've always known that I care and I take passion when I do. But especially if you're a friend of mine, I mean I want to take care of them even more. I don't want to let anyone down, especially my friends. So for me, yeah, it's basically it's a combination of a lot of things that the more social, the more I understand that it fuels me personally and help myself and my company professionally.
Casey Wright:You know, one of the things that was most interesting to me when we started digging into this kind of social fitness research is how much research there is that shows that we undervalue how powerful work connections can be, that people tend to keep those worlds separate and they tend to prioritize close family friend relationships, loose friend relationships all the way down to Uber drivers, cashiers before they think about their work colleagues as being real people in their lives. But when you consider how much time you spend with your work colleagues, there's probably a really good chance you're spending more time with them than your significant other, certainly than most of your close friends. And so you know, not taking these relationships seriously is one of the, I think, the biggest social mistakes you can make. But it's one that I think a lot of people make, and it's very easy to fall into a nine to five mindset.
Casey Wright:They don't pay me to make friends here, you know. They don't pay me to like people here. They don't pay me to be nice to people here, whatever, and I hear that so much in this younger generation and I think you're missing the point. It's not that they're, it's not that they're not paying you enough to be nice. It's like they're not paying you enough to be miserable and not have friends here, like that's the way you should think about it, right? I can't imagine going to a place that I just spend eight hours a day and not investing in relationships, because I'd hate it there, you know.
Matt Becker:Correct and it's so hard to be unhappy or miserable at your job for eight hours a day and come home and be the best version of yourself at home to your partner or spouse or even individually. So it's easy for me to tell people be happy with your job or career, but it really is the mindset shift for for those individuals and I would encourage anyone if they're unhappy with their jobs or careers to hopefully think of something big picture that they could do to better themselves or they're just work situation, because it's so hard again just to be stressed out and so unhappy at work and then to come home and try to be happy at home and or and even be social. So you know, I feel like balancing your, your work and just your happiness at work and finding joy in what you do is very important.
Casey Wright:I think you're right. One of these things I'm really coming to think and be convicted by is the fact that I don't think social fitness is a switch you can really turn on and off. I don't think you can go, spend all day in an office just being isolated and alone and then go out and just be the life of the party. I just don't think, at least for me, and I don't see a lot of people that seem to be doing this. It seems like either this, this switch, is always on or it's always off, and if you have to make a choice, it should always be on right.
Casey Wright:And this is where this is one of the things I'm really starting to to really be convicted by is like I need to talk to people in elevators, I need to talk to my Uber drivers, I need to say a few sentences to the cashiers, to the doorman, that stuff. That, as a New Yorker, this is the cardinal sin of being a New Yorker you don't talk to strangers, you don't. Everyone just keeps it moving here, right. But I think, when you get caught in that, that it's really hard then to just go to dinner with your friends and all of a sudden snap into this really charismatic, fun version of yourself and I'm really starting to think more and more about this needs to be a permanent state of affairs if you really want to be a social athlete. It's not something that you can really take breaks from.
Matt Becker:Well, I think you exemplify that more so than a lot of other my friends as well. I feel like you take the time to be courteous to strangers, you tip generously. You feel like those things mean more to other people than they do to you, and you are one of the kindest people to strangers that I've ever met, and that is another quality that I see in you that I try to build in my own life. So I think you do that better than I do, if I can be blunt and honest with you about that too. So there are a lot of things that you do that maybe I don't know. I don't know if you do that subconsciously or if that's kind of a thing that you've grown up with, but for some reason or another, you've always been so kind and give that extra effort and energy for people, and I feel like it's just one of those things where, then, kinder you are to strangers. It's just, I don't know, it's just one of those things, that the combination of a lot of things that are positive in your life.
Casey Wright:Yeah, it has nothing to do with empathy. It was just a crippling Catholic guilt that was instilled in me in childhood that I'm just terrified of strangers not liking me. But yeah, thank you, let's go with the empathy and, being a good person, think, sure, all right, is there anything else you want to talk about?
Matt Becker:I would like to speak on behalf of all of the people out there who are listening to this and I truly hope one day in your lifetime you get to meet the one and only Casey Wright. He truly is a remarkable, remarkable person that you know. Your podcast will give people a good indication of who you are and the type of man that you are, but really meeting you in person and finding out for themselves is truly a blessing that I am very fortunate to have had my life and am lucky enough to say that I will have for the rest of my life, as long as we both will live. So you are truly one of my best friends in the world. When you've called me about this, it was an immediate yes, and I'm happy to make time for you and for this and I'm proud of you and thank you for doing what you're doing.
Casey Wright:Well, thank you brother. Well, you truly were. When I started thinking about this and I was like, well, you know this was late, I don't know if you listened to the intro episode, but, like the first thing is, I was like the real project here is trying to figure out what a social athlete looks like. You know, how would you spot one in the wild? And as I was thinking about this, I mean and I didn't say it then I'm like I'm thinking of Matthew Becker.
Casey Wright:This is the one person and I'm sure he's a social athlete, because everybody who knows you loves you the people. The more somebody knows you, the more they love you. And my dad used to tell me he said the true measure of a man is the people who know him best, respect him most. And that's something that I can honestly say about you is that there's nobody who loves you more than your your beautiful wife Kendra. She always tells me that you're the best human on the planet earth and she really believes it. I do too, but I think it's really cool is that the people who know you best, they respect and love you most. I think that's such. I think I speak so highly to your character, so I was absolutely sure that you were at the social athlete and I'm really excited that I got to have you on. Thank you for all of this. I really appreciate it I hope you bet buddy anytime.