Hailey Rowe is a Marketing & Sales Coach, as well as a Linkedin Lead Generation Service Provider. She helps coaches, therapists, and service providers book clients, develop their no brainer offers and grow their income and impact. She shares her F.A.S.T. framework, marketing, and business tips on her Health Coach Nation Podcast and in her FREE Marketing Hub Facebook Group.
She’s been named as one of the Top 25 Coaches in Chicago (Chicago Entrepreneur Magazine) and one of the Top 6 business podcasts for health coaches (Primal Health Coach Institute). Since 2010, Hailey has worked in the coaching industry and in business development/marketing for startups. Hailey’s philosophy: You can have an amazing service and impact to make, but without a strong mindset, and sales and marketing plan, your business will remain a hobby.
Connect with Hailey Rowe
Connect with Insatiable & Ali:
Join our free Insatiable community gathering on the first Tuesday of each month from 2-3:00 pm ET to meet other Insatiable listeners. Bring your burning questions about the show or whatever you are struggling with for some free coaching from Ali. Visit alishapiro.com/gathering to sign-up and learn more.
Call or text our new Insatiable hotline: (412) 475-8006.
Have a question you'd like Ali to address on a future episode or a comment on the show? Ali would love to hear from you. Be sure to leave us a way to reach you in the event we'd like to play your message on a future episode.
Please rate and review Insatiable on your favorite podcast platform—it means more to us than you know—and helps others find the show!
Hailey Rowe is a Marketing & Sales Coach, as well as a Linkedin Lead Generation Service Provider. She helps coaches, therapists, and service providers book clients, develop their no brainer offers and grow their income and impact. She shares her F.A.S.T. framework, marketing, and business tips on her Health Coach Nation Podcast and in her FREE Marketing Hub Facebook Group.
She’s been named as one of the Top 25 Coaches in Chicago (Chicago Entrepreneur Magazine) and one of the Top 6 business podcasts for health coaches (Primal Health Coach Institute). Since 2010, Hailey has worked in the coaching industry and in business development/marketing for startups. Hailey’s philosophy: You can have an amazing service and impact to make, but without a strong mindset, and sales and marketing plan, your business will remain a hobby.
Connect with Hailey Rowe
Connect with Insatiable & Ali:
Join our free Insatiable community gathering on the first Tuesday of each month from 2-3:00 pm ET to meet other Insatiable listeners. Bring your burning questions about the show or whatever you are struggling with for some free coaching from Ali. Visit alishapiro.com/gathering to sign-up and learn more.
Call or text our new Insatiable hotline: (412) 475-8006.
Have a question you'd like Ali to address on a future episode or a comment on the show? Ali would love to hear from you. Be sure to leave us a way to reach you in the event we'd like to play your message on a future episode.
Please rate and review Insatiable on your favorite podcast platform—it means more to us than you know—and helps others find the show!
Ali Shapiro [00:00:04]:
Hello. Hello. Hello, insatiable listeners. As I announced to my email list, Insatiable is coming back on a regular basis. I'm so excited. I love this medium. I love providing this podcast as a service. I've gotten so much incredible feedback on our midlife throne for a loop season that just ended.
Ali Shapiro [00:00:30]:
And it reminds me how much I love teaching and bringing, you know, health information that strips away the dogma, strips away the media frenzy, and can really help people have more well-being in their life. So I'm coming back on a regular basis. There is just so much to discuss. So, first of all, make sure you subscribe to the show so you don't miss episodes. Right now, we're gonna aim for every other week and eventually back to back to weekly. But every other week can be hard to remember that there's episodes. So make sure you subscribe to the show. So, as I said, there is so much to discuss the wellness world.
Ali Shapiro [00:01:12]:
I started out in 17 years ago that had such high ideals has recreated so many of the issues it railed against with Western mess medicine. Hat tip, hashtag capitalism. Right? If you're not aware of these systems, we just recreate the problems that they produce. As a result, there's more overwhelm and less well-being. Insatiable is back to help you sort through all the crazy. And again, not based on what works for me or my guests, but for you to discover what works for you. I wanna give you Ozempic as an example. While it's been approved by the FDA to treat type 2 diabetes since 20 17.
Ali Shapiro [00:01:59]:
So 4 years ago now. It recently became something everyone seems to have an opinion about. Often wonder about this, like, what made all of a sudden the media draw attention to this? Right? I've thought about this with COVID. Obviously, COVID was new, and we need to understand it. And yet COVID's still going on, but no one's talking about it. Right? It just shows you how much of, like, and then this is the reverse. Ozempic has been out for so many years, but now it's in the media everywhere. Right? So the media really determines a lot of what we think we need to focus on with our health.
Ali Shapiro [00:02:37]:
And sometimes it's accurate and sometimes who knows? So, again, this drug has been out since 2017. Everyone seems to have an opinion about it. And our fat phobic culture, including most of the wellness industry, has vilified this drug. Anti diet activists have also boarded the anti Ozempic train. They've expressed their disappointment in Oprah. Side note, can we just let Oprah be? Why do we always have to comment on people's bodies? Anyways, I too had some unchecked biases when I first heard about Ozempic and its cousins like Wegovy. I'm also aware that I have a bias towards non intervention. So I love a strong counterargument to challenge my thinking.
Ali Shapiro [00:03:24]:
There are obviously real valid concerns with this drug, the way it's being dosed. In other words, the pace of the weight loss is a huge concern. The health risks, there are, you know, some risks, like there's risks with any intervention. There's risks with not intervening. And lack of diet and lifestyle intervention that is required to lose weight and keep it off. And yet okay. So we have concerns and yet the longevity and biohacking communities have been using semaglutides for decades. And Ozempic is a semaglutide, But the biohacking community and longevity community, they just call it peptide therapy.
Ali Shapiro [00:04:07]:
Have you heard of let alone seen an outcry disparaging peptide therapy? Even when peptide therapy claims to optimize performance, speed up recovery, support weight loss, and have antiaging effects. So it's promising more than just Ozempic. I'm not making a case for or against Ozempic. Rather, I'm just illustrating how so much of what cover gets covered and how it gets covered around our well-being is more reflect a reflection of our cultural values than the science that maybe we need to be paying attention to. And, yes, I'm going to have an insatiable episode on Ozempic, ask semiglutides, peptides, and how my thinking has changed on the subject. And I'm gonna have a special guest on to discuss because I am really a novice at learning about these things. With insatiable back and it being a very different world than when I first started the podcast in 2016, including podcasting culture, how you all listen to podcasts. There's so many more podcasts.
Ali Shapiro [00:05:15]:
We're going to be experimenting with some different formats. However, insatiable will continue to be a pro a podcast at the intersection of food, psychology, and culture. We're just gonna be trying out some different ideas. If you've ever taken any of my programs or listened to insatiable on a regular basis, you know, experimentation is at the heart of figuring out what works for you, for your body, your food, and your well-being. And the same is true for podcasting. With that said, today's episode is a slight departure from the discussions we normally have here because health coaching is having a cultural moment. So this one is for health coaches, healing practitioners, and change agents who really love supporting others and need to learn how to gain momentum on the business side. As I share in this interview today with Haley Rowe, when I first started out health coaching in 2,007, am I a crone of the health coaching industry? My business plan was to help people.
Ali Shapiro [00:06:16]:
I thought caring about others and passion was all you needed. I drunk the passion, you know, led Kool Aid. The Kool Aid that said, just follow your passion, and it'll all work out. I was like, yeah. I was chugging that stuff. But I thought, again, you just need to care about others and really wanna help people. And can you tell that I come from a family of teachers, not business owners? Probably would have had a different idea if I had been exposed to how businesses actually work. And I'm not, I've learned I'm not alone in this.
Ali Shapiro [00:06:53]:
I'm just really wanting to help people and wish the rest would take care of itself. My Truce coaching certification attracts the same big hearted mission led coaches, therapists, and change agents. Like me, they just want the quality of their impact to speak for itself, especially after having the truth structure, which really uplevels your skills. And that's just not reality. And business doesn't have to be exploitative. Don't mix up small business and capitalism. You can do business in a way that is supportive and generative, and that's always my aim. So I wanted to bring on a sales and sales and marketing coach, Haley Rowe, who is also a LinkedIn lead generation service provider, to show us how sales and marketing doesn't have to be slimy or like the fear based bro marketing that can often feel like the only choice.
Ali Shapiro [00:07:42]:
Haley is in alignment with the ethos of truce with food and the truce coaching certification, which is focusing on what's essential and timeless. The foundations not being swayed by trends and effective experimentation is the plan. Or as how Haley shares in this interview, the secret sauce is being willing to do big things without having it all figured out. Yep. So this episode today is for those who are wellness entrepreneurs or for those who are thinking about transitioning into a wellness career. And that could be nutrition, sobriety, therapists who want to transition into coaching. I asked Hailey about the current wellness market trends. We discussed the upside of there being more health coaches, what a maturing coaching market means and how you can discern when yes, you actually need more skills or you're using more training to procrastinate on the inevitable bravery and self doubt that comes with running your own business.
Ali Shapiro [00:08:42]:
Here's a bit more on Haley. Haley Rowe helps coaches, therapists, and service providers book clients, develop their no brainer offers, and grow their income and impact. She shares her FAST framework, marketing, and business tips on her Health Coach Nation podcast and her free Marketing Hub Facebook group. She's been named as one of the top 25 coaches in Chicago by Chicago Entrepreneur Magazine and one of the top 6 business podcasts for health coaches through the Primal Health Coach Institute. Haley's worked in the coaching industry and in business developing and marketing for startups since 2010. Enjoy this conversation with Haley, and we'll be back with another insatiable episode in 2 weeks. Remember to subscribe to the show, and here's my episode with Haley. Thank you so much for being here today, Hailey.
Hailey Rowe [00:09:39]:
Thank you. I'm excited to be here with you, Allie.
Ali Shapiro [00:09:42]:
Yeah. Can you tell everyone a little bit how you got into health coaching marketing?
Hailey Rowe [00:09:48]:
Yes. So I actually started as an entrepreneur pretty young. I started dabbling in it. I wouldn't say I was a pro entrepreneur. But when I was 16, I started to just mess around with different creative projects and selling things. And I knew that I wanted to be my own boss. I knew that I had an interest in personal development. Fitness was actually my gateway into, like, being more interested in health and mindset and all the things.
Hailey Rowe [00:10:16]:
And then I ended up getting my bachelor's degree in entrepreneurship, and then I started to work in business development and marketing for wellness startups in particular. And I did that because I thought, you know, I love wellness. I love business, but I feel like I need more experience. And I got a lot of very fast paced experience I did not feel qualified for at the time working for startups because they just are they have a lot of different things they need to get done, and you're just told to do it, and you just have to figure it out. And so I loved that journey. And then in 2017, one of the wellness startups, because it was super cutting edge, had a bunch of delays in getting approved and whatnot. And so the entire team got let go in one day. And that's when I realized if I wanna have my own business, I might as well start now because even the startups, they don't have everything figured out.
Hailey Rowe [00:11:10]:
And so I started to work individually with wellness professionals and service providers on their marketing, on putting themselves out there because the theme that I saw was a lot of them had passion and talent and really wanted to help people. But then when it comes to actually marketing and selling, that was either things that they dreaded or things they just didn't understand. And so they were never able to get you know, doing it as a business. It was always this hobby or this thing that they would dabble in, and so I wanted to help them with the marketing and sales skills to be able to get themselves out there. And so that's what I've been doing ever since 2017. I started the Health Coach Nation podcast, and that's where I am now.
Ali Shapiro [00:11:55]:
I love that. I also love your point. You know, I this came up in my Truce coaching certification. It's not a business and marketing aspect, but the business and marketing side gets brought up. And I was trying to tell people, you know, all these companies that get 1,000,000, 100 of 1,000,000, 1,000,000 of dollars of investment, they're often not making a profit. Yeah. It doesn't mean that they're great or something. You know? And I think that's to your point of like, oh my god.
Ali Shapiro [00:12:21]:
They've they laid everyone off in a day. I love that you bring that up because I think in this day and age, it's like, oh, they raised this amount of money. They must have some secret sauce. And it's like Yeah. They're figuring it out as they go too, just like the rest of us.
Hailey Rowe [00:12:35]:
The secret sauce is being willing to do big things without having it all figured out.
Ali Shapiro [00:12:42]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you said people really wanted to help people, and sometimes the business stuff I know that was my case for me. I'm like, you know, oh, my business plan is I wanna help people. And it feels like, well, if you're altruistic and caring, it should all work out, and that's not the case. So I love that you're helping people who really should be in coaching. Right? The people who really are in it for the caring and wanna help versus just not saying that if you want a labs laptop lifestyle or make a $1,000,000,000, that's okay too. It's just it's so great to know that you're helping the people who, like, really wanna help people as well.
Hailey Rowe [00:13:17]:
Yeah. Definitely. And those are the people that I actually think sustain businesses. Because the people who go into it to be a laptop lifestyle, they they will fade fast.
Ali Shapiro [00:13:27]:
Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I've been in it 17 years, and not a lot of people are still around that I that I knew that were kinda promoting that kinda stuff. So I think you're according to my data, you're correct. So I'm curious about what trends you see happening in health coaching or the bigger coaching market. Before we get into the nitty gritty of what you do, I'm just curious what trends you see because I know a lot of people that are in the online space are saying, what used to work doesn't work anymore, or the market became really saturated in COVID. So I'm just curious what you're seeing here in 2024 and maybe here on out.
Hailey Rowe [00:14:08]:
Yeah. I think a couple of things. One is I think that people are really craving authenticity and more real more realism. I think that there's been a time when like, especially during COVID, when messaging got really clickbaity and really, like, bro market y, which means, like, oh, you know, lose £20 in 2 weeks. Or in my industry, it would be things like, oh, make $70,000 in 5 days. And people nowadays, you have to they have to perceive that they can achieve what you're talking about. And if your messaging is so over the top that they're like, it brings up trust issues, then it that's not the way to go. So, yes, you do wanna have a tangible message, and, yes, you do wanna be specific, and, yes, you wanna communicate pain points or dream outcomes your people have.
Hailey Rowe [00:15:00]:
But at the same time, I do think there's a craving for more connection more than ever. And so connecting, like, personally personalizing and just building relationships never goes out of style, and so that's really important. The second thing that I'm seeing is people are so overloaded with information and information like, a podcast and stuff like that to where they almost are shutting down, and they don't wanna add anything else. So what I mean by that is in your marketing, you have to start speaking to the fact that people don't want more. They don't want more re you know, resources. They don't want your workbooks. They don't want time with you even. They want something that's gonna take something off their plate, make something make remove stuff that they don't wanna do.
Hailey Rowe [00:15:52]:
So really making sure that your message is clear about how you're actually helping them refine or save time instead of add new things is really important. And then I would say number 3 would be deciding, like, working with your strengths and not against them. And what I mean by that is I think there's been a lot of things that have come up like TikTok and threads and all these things, and a of people think I need to get on that because everybody else is doing it. And I think that the true people who succeed figure out what are they good at if they love video or they love podcasting or they love partnerships. And sticking with it and refining that and staying focused, that is something really important in today's day and age. Because I think the trend has been jumping around trying to do all the things, and I think that we need to actually get very focused.
Ali Shapiro [00:16:45]:
I love everything that you said because I think that less is more. I I can feel that as a consumer myself. And Mhmm. It I love that also because that's very aligned with truce with food is like, look. We're gonna look at what's in the way, not adding more things. So I'm obviously partial to that, but I think that's really important because a lot of people think they need a download or, you know, all they think they need to do all the things. And what you're saying is, how can you communicate to people that there's less that they need to do and still get the results? Am I hearing that correctly? Like Yeah. Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:17:19]:
Yeah. And then I also so what I think I'm hearing you say too is that, you know, during COVID, it almost, like, matured the coaching market in a way. Right? Like, I I think about when I got into coaching back in 2006, you know, you had to tell explain to people what coaching was. And it felt like everybody knew what coaching was, but then COVID like, I always use my friends in the suburbs as, like, a litmus test for, like, where's what what is actually mainstream? And it's like, okay. Now that's coming to coaching. So you're saying that the market the coaching market has really matured. And as a result, people are becoming a lot more discerning about what you can promise and whatnot. That's that's refreshing because it also means that there's a true market for coaching.
Ali Shapiro [00:18:04]:
Right? Yeah. It's not a bad thing that all these people are doing it. Just means it means that, okay, now we're actually established.
Hailey Rowe [00:18:11]:
Right. Yeah. I do think it's growing, and I think people get concerned that, oh, it's too saturated. But that is not true at all. And I always use the example of, like, if you were at an airport or on an airplane or at, like, some kind of concert or something with a big crowd, you're probably the only person in your section or in your row or even in the plane that is a coach. You know? Like, they're not everywhere. Us coaches live in a bubble where we're, like, holding them on social media, and then the algorithms think we really like coaches, so they're showing us coach ads and all the thing. And it's not that big of a thing.
Hailey Rowe [00:18:47]:
Like, I'm probably the only person in my network or circle where I'm a coach and all my friends do other jobs. So it is not saturated at all. You do need to differentiate yourself. And rather than saying I just health coach or I just business coach, what makes you unique or what what's your approach that's special? But it is not saturated.
Ali Shapiro [00:19:09]:
Yeah. I'm glad you said that. Yeah. Okay. So you created your own framework, the FAST framework, speaking of differentiating. And so can you tell us what that is?
Hailey Rowe [00:19:19]:
Yeah. So over my years of coaching, I have found that there are some timeless sales and marketing requirements to be able to turn your coaching passion into a real business. And so rather than like, I've never been somebody who wants to just keep up with the trends and obsess over, like, my TikTok re or Instagram reels and things like that. I'm more so, like, let's focus on the principles that get people success and apply them to TikTok or Instagram or whatever you wanna do. And so my framework stands for followers, action, sales, time management, and transformation. And what I mean by that with followers is we work on who you wanna serve and what is your compelling message, and then what is your process for taking somebody new to you to actually booking the call or signing up for your webinar or, you know, reaching out about your service. A lot of my clients end up starting with local marketing. Sometimes they start with social media marketing.
Hailey Rowe [00:20:17]:
Sometimes my clients start with LinkedIn marketing. So the approach is different for each person based on who you're trying to serve and where where they hang out, but it's important to get clear on that process. And then the action piece is how what's your compelling message, offer, and content that drives demand? So how are you going to actually engage people and and speak to what they really want? Because I see a lot of people just guessing or using their what they want their audience to want, and that doesn't usually land. The sales piece is what are you offering and what's the pricing, and what is kinda like your business model and your sales process, and how do you coach through common objections in your marketing. And the last two pieces, time management is where to spend your focus. So on a weekly basis, what makes the most sense for generate like, for your client generating activities and removing some of the overwhelm and information overload. And then the last piece, transformation, is 2 things. 1, what's the personal transformation required to get to your goal? So a lot of times my clients have to face their fear of going on video sometimes, or they feel like they're technically challenged, and so they need help with that.
Hailey Rowe [00:21:30]:
Or sometimes it's more like they see sales. They have a really bad view of sales, like it's convincing people or begging people for money or asking for money, which, of course, why would anyone wanna do sales if you see it that way? Right? So they need to shift their sales mindset. And then the other part of trans transformation is the point a to point b of your coaching, making sure that's really clear, you having your own framework or process you could share and using testimonials in your marketing.
Ali Shapiro [00:22:00]:
I love that question. I mean, I have a couple of questions, but when you talk about who do you wanna serve, how do you get people to think about that? Because there's, like, a lot of different ways to slice or dice that. So I'm curious.
Hailey Rowe [00:22:14]:
Yeah. Well, I think it's a couple of things. 1, who in my opinion, I like to choose an audience that is easy to find. So in other words, it's you could say women, but women are everywhere. And so how are you gonna know where to focus your efforts? Right? So get a little more specific than that as far as who could be easy to find either online or locally for you. So for example, sometimes my clients, like, choose to work with a certain type of profession, like executives or something like that because they're very easy to find on things like LinkedIn and and other places. So easy to find purchasing power is another one if you wanna make your life a little easier. So rather than picking to work with teenagers, you know, that have to ask their parents and don't have jobs, your life might be easier if you pick a niche that has purchasing power.
Hailey Rowe [00:23:06]:
The other thing though, of course, is what pain points or goals can you help with and starting there, and and what do you wanna help with? You have to also like your niche. Like, don't pick a niche that you don't even relate to at all or you don't like. Like, you just find them annoying or something like that. So likability and ability to help them. And then I think the last thing is growing. You wanna pick a growing market. So those are some things to kinda use as criteria
Ali Shapiro [00:23:34]:
that I would probably start with. And I'm thinking of those criteria. And I know when I first started out, like, I was like, oh, do I need an MBA to know if a market's growing? Or and now I know, no. You don't. And MBAs are really great for corporate. I don't know how great they are for entrepreneurship. Maybe both. You know? I'm sure it all falls in between.
Ali Shapiro [00:23:54]:
But when you think about purchasing power or growing market, how do you help people figure that out, or is it just intuitive?
Hailey Rowe [00:24:05]:
Well, I think that it's a couple things. Part of it is just intuitive and, like, common sense. You know? Like, teenagers is automatically we we know logically that probably doesn't make a ton of sense. Right? Yeah. But I do think you can do research. And sometimes, literally, the research, we don't I think a lot of people and I have this view too, Ali. Like, I'm gonna be a business coach. I have to use charts and graphs, and I have to work paper, and I have to show studies and blah blah blah.
Hailey Rowe [00:24:31]:
And the truth is you could research by, like, getting proof of concept in a Facebook group where you ask a couple research questions, or you could see what people are talking about and get gain a sense of, is there a need for this? Do people want this? Or you could have a test group and test a message or test an offer and see if people buy it, and you can find out that way. So it's not this, like, complicated. It doesn't have to be this crazy thing. It just needs to be, can I get proof of concept for this? Can I ask people how can I ask my target audience really how what problems would they pay to solve? What dream outcomes would they really want. Good questions, not just like, what do you want? You know, because then nobody is gonna answer that super quality in a super quality way. Getting, like, specific questions. What are their excuses stopping them from x y z goal? What, you know, past attempts have they tried that haven't worked? Why do they think they haven't worked? Things like that. I think you can get a lot just from asking questions, looking around, etcetera.
Ali Shapiro [00:25:33]:
Yeah. And these days, I mean, every everyone shares everything on social media. So Yeah. I think you can get a lot of market data that way. You know?
Hailey Rowe [00:25:42]:
And you should also just pay attention. Like, is there something that everybody comes to you for that you think is really easy or common sense, but they keep asking you about it? Or they're like, how do you do that? And if you don't know what that is, because sometimes we find things so easy and innately doing it that we don't even see that other people struggle with that. So sometimes too, just asking around, like, what do you think is, like, I'm really good at that you'd love to learn or or something like that?
Ali Shapiro [00:26:12]:
Yeah. That's so true. Especially the more masterful you get, the more you feel like you don't you don't realize how many steps along the journey you are, right, compared to somebody else. It's, yeah, it's always amazing to me how you know, I know a lot about health, but this the areas of business I don't know about, people are like, you've never heard of this, and I'm like, no. Well, you know, it's like it's like, oh, well, they've been doing this for 10 years. So it's like, it's new to me, and I think we forget about that kind of stuff.
Hailey Rowe [00:26:41]:
Yes. Definitely.
Ali Shapiro [00:26:43]:
So what do you think in this framework that what do you think is the biggest challenge for clients in the FAST framework?
Hailey Rowe [00:26:49]:
I think the biggest challenge is that first stage of being, like, bringing people in to your world. I think that's where most people get tripped up in the beginning. It's not to say that later on, you'll have other things you have to improve, but I think the biggest first hurdle is how am I gonna attract people? How am I gonna consistently bring in new people? Because I'm sure you've seen this too. A lot of people think, oh, I'm gonna just set up my website, or I'm just gonna post, and people are magically gonna discover me. And it doesn't work like that, unfortunately. So that's a big eye opener for a lot of people.
Ali Shapiro [00:27:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love that you said relationship marketing because I'm thinking in my Truce coaching certification, my one client, Kinsey, she she was a therapist, a a minister, had, you know, a counseling background. And through the TCC, she created this program, Restore, that helps clergy with burnout. And yeah. And she had you know? And, again, she's been in she's been a therapist for over a decade, and it was like, okay. Who do you know that you could offer this to? And she just came back from a cruise. Right? This, like Oh, wow.
Ali Shapiro [00:28:01]:
Yeah. This natural national Christian organization. I think they're natural I forget exactly what they are, but they're like, we need your program. Come on here. And I was like, yeah. It's it's the relationship. Right? Or another one of my clients is a yoga teacher, and she's using TCC for to kinda bring this yogic, you know, philosophy to life around different areas. And she's now working with a therapist who can't help people with, you know, food and stuff.
Ali Shapiro [00:28:28]:
And it's like, okay. That relationship is perfect. And I so I think I'm I'm glad that you said, you know, earlier about the relationships, but I think to your point about you can't just put up your website and expect people to come and forge those relationships that you do have, which you had mentioned earlier.
Hailey Rowe [00:28:45]:
Yeah. I'm a huge, huge fan of partnerships. That's probably
Ali Shapiro [00:28:48]:
the
Hailey Rowe [00:28:49]:
last 2 years. And and that's not the only way to build relationships, but that's a big one. The last 2 years, that's really what I've been focusing on, and it's one of the best, like, not having to pay for ads forms. Yeah. Marketing and and being able to get in front of many people at once so you can help. Like, so for example, you know, how you and you've shared on my podcast that in the beginning of your business, you got in front of a college and did a talk or something like that. It's called one to many marketing, and it's a great way to get in front of many people at once. And I think more people can use that in the beginning of their business.
Ali Shapiro [00:29:26]:
Yeah. And I'm curious. What do you see the difference between relationship marketing and partnership marketing? Or do you think they're the same thing?
Hailey Rowe [00:29:33]:
Yeah. No. So the relation marketing is just a bigger umbrella. It can include building relationships with your potential clients or building relationships with partners, referral partners, you know, collaboration, being on podcasts, things like that. So it's just more of, like, relationship marketing to me mean and I actually have 4 steps to client attraction, and it's all around relationship building. It's connect, engage, pre offer, and sell. And to me, relationship building marketing can be either path, Potential clients are collab partners, whichever you choose, versus partnership is just focused on the collabs.
Ali Shapiro [00:30:08]:
Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. So you had mentioned in your FAST framework that you help people develop their own framework. And so I'm curious, like, how do does that take time, or do do people or do they start with where they're at? Or how do you how do you No.
Hailey Rowe [00:30:26]:
Yeah. So, usually, it it doesn't have to take time, honestly. I've had clients use my jump start offer process, and we knock it out in a session or 2 of what their general framework is. Now, of course, they're gonna refine that and they're gonna build upon it, but it does not have to take a long time. I literally came up with my framework one day in the sauna laying down, and I was like, oh, this is the the acronym. I wrote it down. And so it does not have to take long. And you probably already have it within you, like, based on the process you went through or the process you use with clients.
Hailey Rowe [00:31:00]:
You just haven't put words to it. So I hope you kinda flesh out what does that look like, what are the general phases. And I think a lot of people get worried because they're like, well, but coaching has to be personalized to each person. I agree with that. But you do you can have a broad umbrella backbone to kind of bring tangibility to your coaching. So your framework can be adaptable. So in other words, my FAST framework, not everybody needs every part of it. Sometimes I just focus on a certain part of it with a person, but I can apply the framework or explain the framework to conceptualize the kinds of things I can help with, and then, you know, we can adjust as needed.
Hailey Rowe [00:31:41]:
Or I have clients who don't even need what's within my FAST framework, but want an audit on their website or something, and that's fine. But it helps me it helps somebody see, like, I'm not just saying I do coaching sessions. I do business coaching because that's super broad and confusing and not tangible, and people are gonna be like, why would I pay for that? I could, you know, it's not really valuable communication. So that's what a framework allows you to do. It gives you like a general backbone that you can fall back on to conceptualize and make your coaching tangible.
Ali Shapiro [00:32:14]:
Yeah. I think structure there's so much freedom and structure. And then on the business back end, you know, you can repeat processes. You're not reinventing the wheel every time. It just it saves a lot of time and energy on the back end of a business too to have that.
Hailey Rowe [00:32:29]:
Yeah. Mhmm.
Ali Shapiro [00:32:31]:
Well and so my question you know, because, again, you do the sales and marketing, and my Truce Coaching Certification is so much about the mastery side. And so I'm curious with how do you handle and, again, maybe it's outside of the scope or whatever. But when you work with people, they've got great systems. They're they've got great these great structures, they've outlined a framework. But how do you handle when a when one of their clients may still be struggling and their doubts start to come up?
Hailey Rowe [00:32:59]:
Oh, yeah. Well, I think that a couple of things. 1, anytime a client's, like, you're working with clients for the first time, you will need to get some experience. So some of the things that I do with clients is sometimes we start with a test program where they're not charging what they're ultimately gonna charge in the end. And they're just working on getting their first case studies and feedback, and they're open to hearing that feedback. And we have to be willing to hear the uncomfortable feedback when you're first starting out so you can get better. So sometimes we do start with like a test program or something like that if my clients are feeling doubtful about just going straight for it. And I think the other thing is sometimes being in a container where they are being coached and they're able to clean up their mind with, you know, about their business and stuff, they can come from a fresher mind with their clients because they're not preoccupied with all of that.
Hailey Rowe [00:33:50]:
So I think that's a big piece. And then I think the other thing is is structure, like them getting clearer on what their offer is and a framework and how they can help people. A lot of times that helps them feel as doubtful about, like, I don't have a like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with clients. Right? And I think I do have a section, like, with some bonus experts that aren't me that are more focused on and, Ali, we should actually talk after this if you want to elaborate. But, you know, who talk about coaching skills and solution oriented questions and cognitive behavioral change and things like that. So I do have a little bit of that incorporated, but I think the best way to overcome your self doubt as a coach is by literally coaching others and yourself and being bad at it first and learning why that that might be happening or maybe it wasn't your target audience. You you shouldn't have taken that that opportunity to work with that person because it wasn't your person or whatever. So I think you just have to go through, unfortunately, the process of that to figure out what needs to change.
Ali Shapiro [00:34:55]:
Totally. Totally. I mean, I I talked about this on your podcast, but, I mean, I have learned every coaching theory out there, and I've also learned a lot of change theory. And when you're sitting in front of someone, the theory never maps. You know? It's like human beings are so complex and multidimensional, and you get comfortable just doing the thing. And I think in our culture, you think you have to have all these certifications and degrees. And, again, I I may be mixed I'm not saying don't be masterful, don't know what you're doing, and real world experience is so important and just getting started so that you can refine what you're doing. So I think it's great that you help people get started because it is the hardest part.
Ali Shapiro [00:35:36]:
It is Yeah. The hardest part. I mean, I even remember you know, again, if I had had your fast framework back back in 2007. But when I was still working my corporate job on this and, like, on the side, I was seeing clients, and I was in a real I was working commercial real estate in their marketing. And my boyfriend at the time, now husband, was like, you need to just start calling yourself a health counselor. And I'm like, I'm not a health counselor. He's like, you're counseling people on their health. And I'm like, but it just feels so forward at first.
Ali Shapiro [00:36:05]:
And so, like, if you do the thing, it feels more comfortable stepping into that role. So I love that that's action is such such important learning. Alright. Last question for you. What do you think are the greatest misconceptions about what a health coaching business actually is?
Hailey Rowe [00:36:24]:
Oh, that's an interesting question. Biggest misconceptions of what a health coaching business is. I think people think they are signing up for a health cheerleader or
Ali Shapiro [00:36:36]:
something
Hailey Rowe [00:36:36]:
to motivate them, and they're just buying some sessions for dollars. That's how a lot of people think about it, in my opinion, versus what it actually is, which is if you're doing your coaching business. And what I talk about is like and I'm not saying this is the only way you could there's a 1000000 different ways you can do it, but I think having more of a transformation focus about, like, what's the before typically and what's the after that we're focused on with the client and communicating the system and not just the tool of coaching sessions. I think a lot of people just talk about I do coaching sessions, which is not really what you sell. You sell, what what do those lead to? What is the outcomes? What is the transformation? So I think a misconception is just people don't see the transformation. They just hear like, oh, I think I'm just gonna hire someone to tell me what to do with my health and to me, and that's not what I think it is. I think, mhmm, maybe another misconception is that I think that there's some people in the industry who kind of tarnish it for others. So in other words
Ali Shapiro [00:37:42]:
Yes.
Hailey Rowe [00:37:43]:
Yes. Health coach is a broad term, and sometimes that ties in, like, MLM people. No offense. Like, I don't I used to be in an MLM actually in when I was 16. I was, like, had my legal guardian sign my paperwork, so I have nothing against it. But the and it was a great little, you know, opportunity for me to start learning. But the point like, it it ties in a lot of different types of health coaches, and so it can get confusing to people because it's like, oh, well, do you sell, like, fitness DVDs, or do you, you know, do OPTAVIA or some so I think that kind of is a misconception. Like, sometimes the field gets tarnished in its reputation because there's some people who are too salesy or don't know what they're doing or something that kind of gives a bad taste to others, and that happens in business coaching too in my field.
Hailey Rowe [00:38:31]:
So, yeah, those would be probably the top 2 things.
Ali Shapiro [00:38:34]:
I love those. Yeah. The you're just making me think about, as a consumer, if if you're not in this industry, it could be so overwhelming. Mhmm. Like, this person's calling a coach a coach, but they're offering me, like, 30 days of a smoothie cleanse. You know? And then this person is like, quick fixes don't work. It's like, wait. What what is coaching actually? And I'm sure that'll be getting more structured and defined as the market continues to mature.
Ali Shapiro [00:39:01]:
And I love your point about and I think this plays into your point about coming up with the framework is, okay, what's the value you're creating? And I think about my one client, her name's doctor Kirsten Kessler. She's actually in Chicago like you. Cool. But she came to the TRUCE coaching certification. She's a naturopathic physician. And she wanted, though, to offer not just sessions. Right? Because especially with naturopathic work, you do have to work with someone over a longer period of time. But through the TCC process of going through it herself, she realized that her sobriety was, like, a really big piece of her story.
Ali Shapiro [00:39:39]:
And she kinda felt like, oh, the market's saturated and all that stuff. But through the TCC process, she realized, like, oh, there's there's still a market there for that. And she created this program called Swell, which helps people who are a couple years sober really physically restore themselves and then work on the issues that come up after a couple years of sobriety, which is really where the TCC comes. But it's like that is such a clear value proposition. Right? Like, oh my god. I'm gonna get well now that I'm sober, which, again, huge props to be getting sober, and then the next step is something like this, you know, for her ideal client. So I love that of focusing on the value. So, well, this has been wonderful, Hailey.
Ali Shapiro [00:40:19]:
Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think is important for people to know who are entering the health coaching, coaching care you know, the that space. Is there anything you'd like to add?
Hailey Rowe [00:40:31]:
A good question. I would say that and I always go by, by, like, you can have an amazing strategy, and I I like to help people with that. But I also think what's more import more important in determining if you're gonna succeed in entrepreneurship is who you are and your traits. And so I always come back to I believe there's kind of 3 traits that you have to cultivate to be able to succeed, and one is being solutions oriented. So anytime you cut yourself this week saying, like, why is this so hard? Or why, you know, why am I so bad at this? Or whatever, switch the question around to, okay, how can I get better at this? Or Mhmm. What it what what could be an easy step I could take today to get my message out there? Or what's right about me and my message or something like that? So solutions oriented. Number 2, being willing to just willingness in general, being willing to take action, not know the end result, get the feedback, evaluate, and refine until you hit your goal. So example, I had a web I had a webinar and rather than me, doing the webinar once not hitting my true goal with it and giving up, I continued to do the webinar until it hit the revenue goal that I had wanted.
Hailey Rowe [00:41:46]:
Right? And then the third thing is just being coachable. So
Ali Shapiro [00:41:50]:
Mhmm.
Hailey Rowe [00:41:50]:
Able to realize that you your thoughts and feelings drive a lot of what you do. And so anytime you're blaming something or anytime it kinda what you talk about, Ali. Like, having that emotional maturity and not coming from a survival place in your business, I think that that's super, super important. So these traits are really important, and I, again, I can help my clients with this strategy. I give them the pieces, but you also need to have that base commitment.
Ali Shapiro [00:42:21]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think I think what you're describing is being willing to play the long game.
Hailey Rowe [00:42:26]:
Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Ali Shapiro [00:42:28]:
Which that's what it's about, sustainability. Well, this was great. Where can people find you if they wanna work with you or learn more from you?
Hailey Rowe [00:42:37]:
Well, I have a free class and cheat sheet all about my 4 steps to client attraction. So that's athalyrow.com /clienthyphenattraction, and it breaks down some things you could even do this week to start with where you are. I also have a free community that's a networking and business growth community called the Marketing Hub. It's at facebook.com/group/themarketinghubgroup. I have the Health Coach Nation podcast, and halieroe.com is my website. And I'm on Instagram at halieroe.
Ali Shapiro [00:43:07]:
Wonderful. And we'll have all these links in the show notes. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today, Halley.
Hailey Rowe [00:43:15]:
Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah.