TIME'S UP: Facing Death and Finding Your LIFE LIST

Are you making the most of your time before death catches us all? In this heartfelt episode of Don't Be Caught Dead, I chat with Kate Christie, Australia’s leading time management expert, about how loss and grief can be the wake-up call we need to live intentionally. Kate shares her personal story of losing her ex-husband to pancreatic cancer and how that tragedy reshaped her approach to time, priorities, and what she calls a “life list” — not a bucket list — focusing on what truly matters while we’re still here.

Kate’s journey from juggling a demanding corporate career and motherhood to creating a business that helps others reclaim their time is inspiring and deeply relatable. We dive into the guilt many of us feel balancing family and work, and how reframing time as an investment rather than something to manage can transform your life. She offers practical tips on identifying what you most value, setting achievable goals, and making space for the things that bring you joy and meaning — before it’s too late.

This episode is a powerful reminder that death is the great equaliser, but it also urges us not to wait for tragedy to live fully. Whether you’re facing grief, juggling life’s demands, or just want to live with more purpose, Kate’s insights will help you start your own life list today.

What you’ll hear in this episode:

• Kate’s personal story of loss and how it inspired her to rethink time and priorities
• The difference between a bucket list and a life list — why it’s about living now, not waiting until the end
• How to identify what you most value with three simple questions
• The guilt many working parents face and how to overcome it
• Practica

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Lost a loved one? Our guide walks you through the next steps, from the first hours to the months ahead. Download it here → criticalinfo.com.au/product/my-

Transcript

0:02

We've all got sad stuff, right? We've all got sad stories. Everyone's had trauma, everyone's had loss. Everyone has a sad story. But I want, I guess, people to use my sad story as the impetus that they might need to say, Hey, listen, I'm actually gonna live a bit differently from now on. You know, don't wait. For someone to die or for some trauma to occur, or some tragedy to occur to snap you out of whatever malaise we are living in. We can't afford to put stuff off until later, because later might be too late. Welcome to Don't Be Caught Dead. A podcast encouraging open conversations about. Dying and the death of a loved one. I'm your host, Catherine Ashton, founder of Critical Info, and I'm helping to bring your stories of death back to life because while you may not be ready to die, at least you can be prepared. Don't be caught dead. Acknowledges the lands of the Kulin Nations and recognizes their connection to land, sea, and community. We pay our respects to their elders past. Present and emerging and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and First Nation peoples around the globe. So today I'm speaking with Kate Christie. Kate is Australia's leading time management expert. A speaker, bestselling and award-winning author of five books. Is that now six Kate, or is that still five? No, five. Yeah. Five books. Yeah. And a sought after media commentator. Kate is highly regarded for her dynamic, engaging, and entertaining presentations where she educates audiences on the right strategies and habits to ensure you find and harness. Hours of lost time and then plan for and deliberately use that time to live a life by design. And having seen Kate present earlier this year, I can definitely testify that it is exceptionally engaging your presentation. But I will continue on on your bio. So as a leading voice on productivity, goal setting, and designing your best life, Kate consults to organizations of all sizes and compositions across every industry you can imagine as a media commentator. Kate is an opinion columnist for CEO World Magazine and Mama Mia. He works with Kashi's Business Builders and is regularly featured across television, radio, podcasts, and the print media. Kate is in the business of helping you find time, lots of time, and using that time well. Thank you so much for spending time with us today, Kate. It's my absolute pleasure. Thank you for inviting me onto your show, Catherine. Now tell me how and at what point did you realize time was a significant factor that you needed to focus on in your life? Uh, good question. I've never been asked that question actually in that way. Um, look, I think I was kind of born reasonably organized, but. It was when I, you know, had my children and was still trying to juggle a corporate career. Time became more pressing. But it wasn't until my kids were sort of at school age and little and the demands of trying to manage them with, uh, sort of a senior executive role just became. So, so challenging to the point that I felt that I couldn't be a good mom and have an amazing career, and so I opted out of my amazing career. You know, I couldn't get the kids back and. I think I felt that that was my only choice, that I had to choose between the two things I loved most my kids or my career. And it was after that and having that time out from work and, and really missing work, but then understanding that I needed to start thinking about and doing time differently in order to have all the bits that I wanted. So that was probably that point that of Flex where I thought I've, I've gotta do this differently and. What I, I guess I started doing was trying to educate myself and I, I've always been pretty organized, so I was really just trying to get the cream on the top and, and it turned into a business. It, it's sort of my passion is to, you know, really make sure that no one else ever feels that they have to choose between career and, and the rest of their life for want of time. And it was. A choice that I'd had to make, and I don't want anyone else to have to make that choice. So that's sort of become my passion. And it sounds like that there, that there's also a, an element of guilt associated with that, you know, like that, that classic torn between family or career. Oh, is it? Well, just our bread and butter. As particularly as working women, I think, or mothers or carers, guilt just plays such a significant role in our lives, and I don't think I ever really felt guilt until I became a mom and. Guilt's not our friend. I, I guess I like to look at guilt these days as maybe a bit of a moral compass for me that if I'm feeling overwhelmed by guilt, it's maybe giving me a nudge as to what sort of choices I need or want to be making. But, you know, we've gotta, we've gotta get rid of the guilt, you know? No one's gonna give you a gold staff of being the guiltiest, and we have to kind of get over the guilt thing. I'm a little bit more tough love on the guilt thing these days. It doesn't do us any favors. But I think that that's a really good point that you have then gone through a process with obviously yourself, that you've reframed that and you've changed the way in which you've, you know, sort of have it inform the actions that you now do. What are some of those other, other things?'cause the classic that I love when I read about you is, you know, that cupcake, that moment when as a parent you realize that you have not quite done. All of the ticked, all the boxes that you thought you had ticked as the prize parent. And, and can you tell us a little bit about that moment for you? Oh, it look, I, I still have nightmares about that. Sorry for bringing it up again. Thank you for helping me relive my trauma. Yeah. Um, look, it was that classic, you know, juggle. I was a senior executive at Telstra. I wanted to drop my little preppy at school. You know, all the other parents seemed to be able to do it, and so I delayed my departure for work. I was dressed in my beautiful suit with my red lipstick on, and I literally had Sno from the corner of my suit down my arm because it was cupcake day, and you know, I'd missed that memo. God knows where that was. And you know, this is back in the day when you didn't, nothing was by app or by email. You know, the, the note would've been at the bottom of the school bag underneath the squished banana. And there I was, I didn't have a cupcake inside. My little boy was hysterical 'cause everyone else had their cupcakes and, you know, I, I remember just sort of extricating him from me and giving him to the teacher. And literally running or dashing to the car.'cause I just felt guilt. This phenomenal overwhelming sense of guilt that I wasn't. Doing anything particularly well. I wasn't being a great mom, I didn't feel like I was a particularly good executive, but when I was at work, I was thinking about the kids. When I was with the kids, I was thinking about work. I was constantly checking emails and taking phone calls when I was at home. And I remember, you know, driving into the city that day and I was, I was crying and 'cause I just felt. Such a goddamn failure as a mom. And I rang my own mom and said, you know, I won't, I won't swear, I swear a lot, but I won't swear. But insert appropriate swear word here. You're allowed to swear, Katie. It's fine. You're in, you're in safe company. I, I'm a terrible potty mouth. Um, I, I said to my mom, you know, it's cupcake day. You know, who the hell comes up with these ideas? And I said, can you go to the supermarket and buy some cupcakes, put 'em on a paper plate, take them outta the plastic bag, bash 'em up a bit, take a bite and take them down to school and make it look like we made them. And you know, literally all I could think of was like the 25 years of cupcake therapy my son was gonna need, because they never remember all the good stuff you do. They just remember the shit. And I, I walked into the, my first meeting of the day and. I was a member of the senior executive, so I walked into the boardroom and everyone stopped talking. I was late, and they all looked at me and they all then looked at their watch or watches and they looked at me, and then they just started talking like nothing had happened. And I had this profound realization that I was the only member of that executive leadership team that didn't have a stay at home full-time wife. And I just thought, what the hell am I doing? I, I'm not doing any of this very well. And that was when I opted out, you know, I thought, I, I, I have to, I have to be a better mom. I can't, I can't do this. So time became something you needed to tame then and obviously reign back yourself. So how the hell did you start that? Well, all of a sudden I had all this time on my hands because I remember before I resigned and I, I remember one of my kids saying to me something along the lines of, you know, you are the only mom who doesn't come to sports day. You know, all of the other moms are at. Sports day, and you know, they just, they, it's like, you know, they just pick up the, the nails and nail them into your heart. And shortly after I resigned, I remember it was, it was the sports day was like a week later, I thought, oh my God, I'm gonna be there. I'm gonna be with all the other moms. None of whom I knew because I was never there. And my kids were in Gem and, and that was the red. House. So I, you know, bought all this red stuff and I, you know, had made streamers and I learned the song. I still know the song. I could sing it to you now. And I rock up to school with the kids. And, you know, sports Day started at 9:00 AM and there I was. I was the only one there. The only one there for the whole day. And, and I'm singing the song and I've got the bloody streamers going. All of the other parents turned up at three 15 and school finished at three 30 and they turned up at three 15.'cause that was when the relay races were. So when my kids had sort of said to me, you are the only parent who doesn't come. They forgot to say for the last 15 minutes of sports day. And so, you know, there I was. So all of a sudden I actually genuinely did have a lot of time on my hands, which was wonderful. But I was also. Bored. You know, my, my career, my brain, you know, gave me a lot of self-worth. I, I, a lot of how I defined myself was around my expertise and that I was really good at my job and I loved it, and it was an integral part of, of my, my ego. And all of a sudden all of that was gone. And I sort of thought, well, I, I need to do something else. I need to start a business, or, but I needed, needed to do that within the context of being able to prioritize my kids. So it had to be, I didn't wanna go back and work for the man. You know, I, I, I, I needed to design something for myself that I could use my beautiful brain, my intellectual property. Around the needs of my kids so that I could be there for the last 15 minutes of sports day, you know, so I could go to the swimming carnival so I could do drop off and pick up and help out at the school and help out with homework and be there to talk to them when they got home from school, when they remembered their day, as opposed to arriving home at seven o'clock when they couldn't remember their day. So. I had to, you know, be very intentional about what I designed to make sure that my kids remained front and center.'cause that's, after all, that's why I'd left my job in the first place. And so. How do you do that, Kate? Well, I started researching ideas for what my business could be, and I remember sort of, you know, having all these really ace ideas and I go, oh my God. I remember one stage I had this idea, I thought I'll start a wallpaper business where it's like stickers that you can stick to your kids' walls and that it could be like the height chart and flowers. And I thought this is bloody. Brilliant. So then I look it up and there's already 8,000 other people doing that, you know, so I, I kept having these amazing ideas, which everyone was already doing. So eventually I worked out as you do and as you did with your own business, that oftentimes our product or our service, our niche is. What we've done to solve a problem for ourselves or for people that we're close to, and you've come up with a solution to your own problem and you start thinking about it and you think other people must have this problem. Other people will need this solution that I have come up with for myself. And once you actually realize that and you tap into your intellectual property and your passion for helping other people, the product or the service is there. You just gotta realize it. And do you think that allowing yourself time to just, you know, be curious. Work out whether it was a wallpaper business that you wanted to do or not, you know, but do you, do you think that allowing yourself time to be curious, do you think that that was one of the things that helped? Yeah. Look, it was, it was a gift. You know, it partly, I was exhausted, you know, that that whole sort of leaving work was pretty traumatic and. I was really tired and you know, in retrospect, you know, I look back now, I was probably, you know, technically burnt out. Mm. You know, I was exhausted. So that time was a gift really to recover and just to spend time with my kids. So it wasn't like I finished working. Three minutes later, I was researching wallpaper, you know, it was, it was a process. And I also recognize that it was a gift in the sense that it's not something everyone has the ability to tap into, to take some time out from work and to be curious and, and discover what it is you like. You know, I was, I'm very grateful for that. You know, I don't. Undervalue the fact that it's not something that a lot of people can do or can afford to do, and I was very lucky to be able to do that. But yes, it certainly gave me time to work out what was most important to me and how could I best help other people. But what's interesting is that from that experience, you seem to have then made it achievable for others. That don't have to actually go through a traumatic experience or through a, a change of career or, but to actually embed some of these things that you've learned along the way in a really bite size way. And I like when you, you talk about your goals as in. You know, the ones that you can do now, the ones that are a little bit bigger and, and I'm, I'm not using the right terminology, Kate, please correct me. But you know, the fact that, so it doesn't make it as scary when you, 'cause when you think of time management, you know, I, I do think of like, you know, the eighties shoulder pads and big hair. I, I am sorry, but it does come to mind. You do not represent that at all. But it is something that. Oh, time management. But you do make it seem really achievable. And I think what I like about it is that it's very goal spaced like and values based. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And do you think it comes back to that time, like when you had to really kind of work out what you wanted to do at your core? Oh, without, without doubt. So when you sort of talk about the goals piece that a lot of that comes from my fifth book, which is called the Life List. So from a, I guess if you look at what I do linearly, I help people find time or the time they need to then design and live their best life. So there's the time management piece, and once we get your time under control, we can move to a place of what do you wanna do with your time? What are your goals? How can we then implement those? And even in answering the question that way you can see that my brain is, I, I think in terms of frameworks and processes, I trained as a lawyer. I think, you know, I've always been one for lists and checklists. It's just the way my brain works and what I've discovered over time in terms of coaching. Thousands of people around their time management and thousands of people around goal setting and creating a life list is that other people benefit from that lineal kind of process driven approach to how to invest your time differently, how to create a life list now, how to live your best life. And it becomes bite-sized as you said. Step ones do this, step twos do this, step threes do this. Voila, you've got it. And it's just the way my brain works. But I found that it's helped a lot of other people. It certainly has helped me teach other people to do what I know, and it then gives them the framework to then do it on their own. Once I've gone, you know, once I've exited the picture, they then have that framework and, and each of my books. Framework driven. So if you, you could pick up any one of my books and you probably say, oh, Kate's written this because here's the framework, here are the steps. Go do the steps and you'll get the prize at the end. And, and that's just the way it works. It's that simplification and removing the complexity. But definitely. Comes back to that values-based life and, and oftentimes, you know, if you pick up a self-help book, Catherine, every self-help book you ever buy is gonna ask you what your values are. And that's great and I think that's of value. But I think when it comes to time and time management, and when it comes to goal setting and designing your best life, we are asking the wrong question. We shouldn't be saying, what are your values? We should be saying, what do you most value? What are your values is a question around, you know, what dictates your behavior? Well, honesty, integrity, a service, you know, your, your values dictate your behavior every day. The question I want your listeners to ask themselves is, what do I most value? That's a time-based question. That's really where do you wanna spend your time? Not how do you wanna go about your day? Where do you wanna spend your day? And once we understand exactly what it is we most value, time becomes really simple to manage. Or, or as I talk about, time to invest.'cause you, you only wanna be investing in what it is you most value. And once you understand what you most value, then you can design and build your life and your future goals around that very limited, you know, car or, or bucket of things that you most value. And half the time we don't spend the time trying to work that out. And so we're chasing lots and lots of stuff and your day is like, you know, being in a paintball derby and you're just shooting off pellets left, right, and center. If we just step back and take a little bit of time to think about what do I most value? That will give you laser-like focus on where you need to invest your time. It's as simple as that. And when you ask people to focus on what they most value, do you find the list is long or short? It's short. Hmm. And it's, some people will intuitively know what it is. Some people will say, well, it's, it's my kids, or It's my kids and it's my career, or it's making bread and sewing and running marathons and my family, you know, most people will intuitively have the answer like that, but if you don't, then there's three questions that I get my clients to ask themselves to, to give them a, a good idea of what it is they most value. The first question is, if you were really sick, what would you get outta bed for? And you can write down a list of the things, and I don't mean the logistical things like the doctor and the Panadol. I mean, you know, who would you get outta bed for? What would you get outta bed for? The second question is, when you are with your best friends in the world, those people who just lift you up, what do you love talking about? Are you gonna write down a list of answers to that? And then the third question is, if you think about that person in your life that you most value, that you hold in the highest regard. If they were, or when they are complimenting you, or if they were to compliment you, what would you love them to say about you? And you write a list of answers to that, and you go through those three lists and put a red circle around anything that comes up three times. And that's gonna give you a very, very good indication of what it is you most value. So for mine there are, there are three things only. Now you might have five, you might have 10, you might have 20. I've got three. My kids and my family. I love talking about them. I'll get outta bed for them if I'm sick and the person I'm hold in highest regard is my father. And when he says to me, Katie, you're an incredible mum. You're an amazing partner, or you're an amazing daughter, that's just like nectar for my soul. The second thing is my business. I love talking about it. I'll get outta bed for it, and I love to be complimented on it. And the third thing is my health and wellbeing. Again, I'm with my besties. We're talking about planning hikes. We are saying, which spa are we gonna go and try? How much are you sleeping? Have you stopped drinking? Are you running, are you surfing? You know, that's what I then build my life around my, my family, my business, and my health and wellbeing. That's it. Everything else becomes a very, very simple no, because it's not what I most value and I'm not prepared to invest my time. Anything that I don't value. And what do you find when you work with your clients? Are those challenges around that? Is it identifying what they value most or is it putting it into practice? The framework that you lay out? Uh, people can very easily identify what they most value very easily. Sometimes it can be confronting because people then start to sort of say, well, I, I love my kids, but I prefer my job. You know, I can't, I've got so many clients who say that to me, and then they feel guilty, and it's like, well, no, that's, it just is what it is. It doesn't mean you have to, we're not doing a popularity contest here. We're just trying to get an understanding of. What it is you most value. Other times there will be people who do that exercise and they realize they don't actually value their job or the business at all, and they hate it, and it's like, well, what the hell are you doing then? Because you're spending the vast majority of your time doing something that you don't value the most. So it can be a moment of reckoning. Yeah. For them. So the, the identification of what you most value is, is quite easy for my clients. It's the. Restructuring then of their life and their time to make sure that they're actually investing their time in the things that they most value. So it's that divesting yourself of all the other kind of crap that you're invested in. It's the guilt, it's the judgment of your family or the people around you. Who say, well, why aren't you, you know, going after that big, massive, amazing job that you've trained for and why have you resigned to go around Australia for a year with your children? And so there's that external kind of judgment and pressure. That then becomes the thing that people then have to grapple with. And it's interesting because when you talk, I, I love the fact that you are focusing on your life list because traditionally and, and contemporary wise, a lot of people refer to it as your bucket list, you know? But I love the fact that you refer to it as your life list. Can you explain to me why you, you've made that deliberate conscious Yeah. You know, choice of words. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I feel that, you know, a bucket list is a list of things we wanna do before we die, and it often just involves travel and adventure. Last year on, on my life list, one of the things I've wanted to do is travel first class. And I haven't, I haven't quite got there yet, but I'm gonna, I'm saving points. But last year I flew business class for the first time ever'cause it was on my list, you know? And it kind of proved this point to me that a bucket list is the list of things you wanna do before you die. Because I was almost the youngest person in business class. There were four people brought onto that business class flight in wheelchairs. Two of them, because they were very, very old, and two of them because they clearly looked like they were terminally ill or incredibly ill. I don't want to wait to do all the things that I wanna do until I'm almost dead. I wanna, we're asking the wrong question of ourselves with a bucket list, you know, a bucket list question is, what do I wanna do before I die? A life list question is, what do I wanna do while I'm still young enough to enjoy it? What do I wanna prioritize today? And it doesn't have to be, you know, flying business class. It might be, you know, some, I've got lots of stuff on my life list that don't involve spending money at all. You know, it's spending more time with my kids, telling them I love them every single day, even when they're shitting me. It's decluttering the house, it's making a will, it's understanding my finances. It's, you know, building a community of awesome. Midlife women who want to create their next chapter. You know, none of that requires a financial investment by me, but it's stuff I wanna do. Now, the the other thing I guess is with the bucket list, as I said earlier, it's often around travel and adventure. You know, people talk about their bucket list, they wanna jump out of a plane, or they want to go swimming with sharks and, you know, shit that's gonna hasten your death. And I, I, I think that. A life list is more than that. It's about the relationships. I want, my health, my wellbeing. It's about getting, you know, my will in order. It's about making sure I've got a medical power of attorney in place. It's about making sure my kids know where. My financial documents are in case I get hit by a bus. It's so funny that you say that because when we traveled overseas a few years ago, we went through the process of, of making sure that we had all of those documents in place, but there was something almost liberating in actually doing that and sort of saying, okay, well. I, I've done my adult responsibilities. This is good. You know, like Yeah. It's getting your house in order. Yeah. And it's, it's important that we invest time in this stuff. So I was really deliberate about it being a life list. And, and not a bucket list. And, and as you know, Catherine, the book really was prompted by the fact that I lost my, my ex-husband. My children lost their dad to pancreatic cancer when he was only 54. He was diagnosed and passed away within 11 months. And he was a phenomenally charismatic character who was kind of bigger than life. You know, he would walk into the room and, you know, everyone knew he was there. And for someone like him to be struck down like that so quickly at such a young age, it was catastrophic and it was a huge awakening for me. You know, it's. People sort of say, well, life's too short. And, and it's so trite. And I used to say, well, life's too short. I'll eat a donut or life's too short and I'll stay in bed all day. But all of a sudden I, I very tangibly and profoundly realized that life is too short and I'm gonna live it now. And, and I, and that was kind of his final gift to me, was this absolute slap across the face, this awakening that I, I honestly cannot afford to fuck around. I wanna live it now. I want a life list. What am I gonna do now? You know, one of the final things he said to me was his regrets that he hadn't prioritized the kids and experiences with the kids. And after he passed away, we had a meeting with the executors of the estate and. They said that he had left a sum of money to one side, and that he wanted me to take the kids on a holiday to anywhere in the world, and it was to be the holiday that he wished he'd had with his kids that he wished he'd prioritized, but that he'd left too late, and that was gut wrenching. Like I, I can't, I still haven't gotten over that. My kids will never get over it. That's why it's not a bucket list, Catherine. It's a life list. And my, my key message is, you know, we, we've all got sad stuff, right? We've all got sad stories. Everyone's had trauma, everyone's had loss. Everyone has a sad story. But I want, I guess, people to use my sad story as the impetus that they might need to say, Hey, listen, I'm actually gonna live a bit differently from now on. You know, don't wait for someone to die. Or for some trauma to occur or some tragedy to occur to snap you out of whatever malaise we are living in. We, we can't afford to put stuff off until later because later might be too late. And do you see that, that play out when you work with clients? Do you hear those stories of regrets when there hasn't been an opportunity to perhaps patch up a, an estrangement or, I think. Having written the book, what's really struck me is because it's obviously there's a lot of me in the book and in the past with my books, it's been more kind of a business book. You know, do A, you'll get B, do C, you'll get D. Whereas this one obviously has the frameworks in it for how to create your own life list and then how to make that life list happen. So it's got all the practical stuff, but the start of the book is. My loss and my kids' loss and the trauma of losing Dan and, and how that sort of changed our world so much. What's really struck me, because I'm a very personal person, you know, prior to this, no one would've known anything about me. So sharing that sort of vulnerability, what it has led to is so many people now write to me and share their stories of loss or their show stories of, of sadness or of tragedy, or. It could be anything from losing a partner to losing a parent, to, you know, discovering an addiction in the family to something awful has happened to them. And they then say, well, you know, thank you so much for your book 'cause it's gonna help me live differently. And I, I guess that's been a real gift for me, is realizing that if you're vulnerable, it allows other people, it gives other people permission to start sharing their stories. And that's been amazing. And I feel very privileged actually. You know, I have people writing to me from all around the world, sharing with me their, their stories. And that's, you know, that's a real honor. I totally agree with you. Just in my limited experience of just being with the podcast and, and people knowing that what I do in relation to, you know, death, literacy, and. There is not an occasion I go to where someone doesn't come up to me and tell me a personal story. Mm mm You know, it's, it is a great leveler because you can be, you know, anyone in that room, you can have any qualification, earn any amount of money, but it is the thing that actually unites us all. Yeah. It's the one, one inevitable thing that we will all experience and when we do experience it is. Very human and it's very vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And you would know this as I do now, is that we then sort of become the caretakers of those stories, and that's really important. So just recently actually, I've had a lot of people reaching out to me, so I've started to include some of their stories in my newsletter each month because I wanna honor their stories. You know, not everyone's gonna write a book, but they've all got a story to tell. It is, and there's something about that collective experience as well. I don't know whether you are a Nick Cave fan, haven't got to that aspect of the book yet, but, you know, he has certainly talked about it and there's a, a very popular recent interview that he did with Lee Sales on the A, B, C, and he was speaking about the red hand files, which he. Really started as a, a response for, you know, sort of publishing on a newsletter. The, the questions that he gets in fan mail around, you know, the death of his two sons and the grief that both he and his wife Susie have experienced during that time. And, and there's something about when that is shared collectively that is super powerful. Yeah, I think it's very, very, very powerful. It's traumatizing. Like, I can't tell you how many times I open up my inbox and there's a story from someone and I'll be in floods of tears, but it's brave that sharing when Nick or others share like that, it's phenomenally brave. I think it's the bravest thing you can do is to talk openly about your grief and your loss and, and how do you carve out that time, you know? Because as you said that this book is very different to the other books that you've written. Mm-hmm. So this must be a new. For you to, you know, navigate and it certainly wouldn't have been written in this book.'cause obviously it's just actually come out since it's been published. So how are you navigating that? How are you making sure that you are taking care of yourself now that you are sort of the confidant of, of many people now across the world? Mm-hmm. I look, I, I guess I just honor. What they're doing. So I make sure I respond to every single email I get, every text I get, every DM I get, every podcast request. Thank you very much. Every podcast request, because it makes me feel like I'm helping other people. And I think when you're helping other people and there's that sort of sense of service, and you'd know this with what you do, Catherine, it's, that can be sort of therapy and life affirming in itself. But the other, the other sort of perhaps trite answer. To it is because I've so got my time under control. Thank you. Yep. I'm sure your publisher will be happy with that response. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I have the time to look after myself. You know, I, I spend a lot of time down the coast at my beach house, my ex-husband's ashes, uh, down in the cemetery here. So I just actually today went for a walk and, and. Said hello and told him what was happening with the kids and had a bit of a cry and I'll go to the beach. I've taken up surfing that was on my life list of things that I want to, wanted to do in my fifties was learn to surf. So I've got, my kids gave me a surfboard for Christmas, so I've got my surfboard in the car and I. Go and have a surf. I make sure I have a massage most weeks. You know, I'm, I'm pretty, you know, it's, as you know, it's one of the things that I invest in my kids, my health and my, my wellbeing and my business. So, you know, I, I do, I do look after my, my health and wellbeing. Hmm. And what are some of the little hints that you can share with us? How people can, you know. Really prioritize the things that they value. I think that firstly, you need to understand what, what those things are. So I would do that little exercise on the back of an envelope. And work out exactly what it is that you do most value. Once you know that that's kind of your compass, that's your northern star that you can look to every single day. The other thing I would say is stop thinking about your time as something that needs to be managed. We can't manage time. We've all got exactly the same amount of it and we can't buy more steel, more. Rewind it fast forward it, play it back. So we need to change the narrative. We need to start thinking about time as something that needs to be invested, and it needs to be invested for the greatest return. Like your money, you've got a limited amount of it. It's very, very precious, and you need to invest it where it's going to reap the greatest rewards and give you the greatest return. Which again is in those things that you most value. So, you know, the simplest things that your listeners can do and start doing today is switch their mindset and start thinking about time as an investment. They wake up in the morning, where am I investing my time today? What's the next thing I'm gonna invest in? Where am I gonna get the biggest bang for my buck? And then, you know, focus on those things that they most value and pick up a pen and start writing out their life list. What are all the things that they wanna do right now? Or within the next year or two that will align with those things that they most value. And, you know, they're some of the simplest things that they can start doing and start prioritizing themselves. One of the big things I, I talk about different types of goals in the life list. I talk about go big goals, go small goals, and go now goals. And the, the go big ones are obviously the big juicy, multifaceted, you know, I'm gonna climb a mountain, I'm gonna plant a million trees, kind of goals. The go small goals are the, the smaller. Goals that we can implement on a monthly basis that kind of keeps our cup full whilst we are building up those big goals and the, the go now goals are, you know, just being open to acts of spontaneity. And one of my go big goals this year was to sort of grow my social media. I'm not very tech savvy and so I, I got one of my daughter's friends, I approached her, she's this fantastic young woman, early twenties who's in marketing. And I said she, she was just starting out her own business after having worked at a company. And I said, look, I want, I didn't know her. I just, you know, knew her through my daughter. And so we met at a cafe and she put together this PowerPoint presentation, and she's like, 23. And she was just nailing it. And she sort of got halfway through and I said, I want, and she goes, look, we could do the monthly thing, or we could do an annual package. I said, I, I want the annual package. She goes, oh. She goes, oh, I haven't finished my pitch. And I said, it sold. Just, oh, you're my first client and I've been working with her for a couple of months and, uh, and my Instagram account's going gangbusters under this young, the stewardship of this young woman, so, you know. I'm investing my time in the stuff that really gives me joy. Catherine, I think we should all do that though, Kate. It's not that hard. It's just about working out what it is you most value. Investing your time for the greatest return and doing it now. Not later. Kate Christie. I think that is a beautiful way to end thou little chat today. Thank you so much for investing some time in us and spending some time with us this afternoon. It was an absolute pleasure, Catherine. Thank you for having me. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of Don't Be Caught Dead, brought to you by Critical Info. If you liked the episode, learn something new or were touched by a story you heard, we'd love for you to let us know. Send us an email, even tell your friends, subscribe so you don't miss out on new episodes. If you can spare a few moments, please rate and review us as it helps other people to find the show. Are you dying to know more? Stay up to date with. Don't be caught Dead by signing up to our newsletter. 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