"How to Build Leaders Before Growth Breaks Your Company" - The Fast Slow Motion Podcast - Ep 059

In this episode, host Eric Housh and CEO John Burdett sit down with Cord, founder of FireSeeds and WildSparq, to explore what happens to culture as companies scale. Cord shares how founders often are the culture early on, but fail to intentionally scale it alongside systems and operations.

The conversation unpacks why leadership development is the missing piece in most growing businesses, how “multiplying leaders” creates long-term advantage, and why truth, feedback, and trust sit at the core of healthy organizations.

This episode is for leaders who want to scale without losing what made their business work in the first place.

For the full episode video, show notes, and related resources, visit https://loom.ly/MjUuElg.

Fast Slow Motion has a new book out that's all about how to build a business you love while enjoying your life. To get a FREE copy of "The Scalable Business Framework," learn more: https://loom.ly/iAfjzpw

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So usually that founder that started something early, um, you know, he is the culture, she is the culture. Um, that leader is the culture, and they organically, if you will, grow culture because early days you can sit around the table. Uh, John, I know you guys have done this in a couple of different situations, but you can sit around the table and you get to affect and impact those that are around the table. But if if you do that well, it's inevitably, inevitably gonna grow your business. You're gonna start to grow, you're gonna start to scale. And then all great leaders know that we have to put systems in place to scale. And so we scale our operations, we scale our marketing, we scale our stack, our tax, our tech stacks, excuse me. Um, but what we don't think about scaling along with that is the culture of the organization.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

This podcast is brought to you by Fast Slow Motion, a team of expert consultants that have helped thousands of growing businesses build scalable systems on the HubSpot and Salesforce platforms. To learn more, visit www.fastslowmotion.com. Welcome to the Fast Slow Motion Podcast, where we share strategies, ideas, and insights to help you build a business you love while enjoying your life. I'm your host, Eric Hush, and joining me today is Fast Slow Motion's CEO, John Burdett. Eric, great to be here as always. John, I'm super fired up about today's episode. I would love to pass the mic to you, let you introduce our guest.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah, it's definitely an honor. Uh Cord is a uh a good friend and mentor, and we've known each other for many years now. We're not going to share how long that's been because it'll make us both sound really old. But yes, it will. Cord is a um an ultimate entrepreneur. He's a serial entrepreneur, he's created multiple impactful businesses. He currently owns and has founded two that are really thriving and doing well, uh, Fire Seeds and Wild Spark. He'll tell you a little bit more about those in just a little bit. But they're real passionate about developing leaders. They call it multiplying leaders, both helping finding good leaders and then developing those leaders once you get them on board. So it's a it's a great intersection intersection of leadership development, culture development, and really business development from growing a company that is successful, sustainable, and built on top of leaders. So, Cord, welcome to the show. Uh, we're so excited to hear from you and learn from you.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Hey, it is it's an honor to be here. Uh, when you get to uh to be in great company with those that uh man buy into what you know we're gonna talk about today, culture and and growing leaders and multiplying people, and just knowing that uh that has been a part of your keys to success uh over the years as I've been able to you know follow you and and your your many transitions. So um love being here and excited, excited for where this goes.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Yeah, Cord, we're super excited to dig in with you and and talk more. There may be some listeners out there that may not be familiar with Fire Seeds or Wild Spark. So can we just start right there? Walk us through what each company does and what problems you're trying to solve for founders.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Yeah, absolutely. Um, well, 14 years ago now, uh started the first company uh called Fireseeds. And uh Fire Seeds, at the end of the day, uh I loved culture and I loved helping I loved helping companies really bottle their culture, be intentional around their culture, trans, you know, transform their business success by culture. Um and so as I had bought and sold, or I had sold a previous company, uh I really had the gift of time to kind of kind of sit in, okay, what do what do I want to build? What kind of company do I want to build? And I knew I wanted to do that. I wanted to help companies with culture. I just didn't know how to uh build the engine. And uh, and so the first thing uh that I looked back and said, how you know, I'm pretty good at finding leaders, at finding key, key people, key folks that that also really value leadership uh and then putting them in a strategic position. So I started a recruiting firm. So Fire Seas is a recruiting firm. I mean, we recruit key leaders. Uh, we've really moved into that executive space now, but we would call them key leaders uh for purpose-driven organizations. And that's really our niche, that's our brand. We work with with companies where culture really matters. And uh, and so that's our differentiator, and that really needs to be what sells one of our clients is that culture matters so much to them that that would be the uh the value proposition that they would would say is a non-negotiable for them, because at the end of the day, uh we've got to go sell their story uh and their culture to other leaders. Uh, and that has to be the difference of why they they they leave a really good opportunity for something else.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

That's great. Uh, you know, we we we're pretty proud here. Our our listeners tell us, you know, they're all sort of in this space where they're just trying to scale the businesses, right? Finding good folks are a part of that, building those teams uh as a part of that scaling process. They're adding layers of leadership, they're creating complexity. Zero in for a minute on the founder as as they're trying to scale, as that that sort of evolution is happening. What do you typically see happening to those founders during that process?

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yeah, I mean, think about uh the the founder in I'm speaking usually from the entrepreneurial uh positioning. So usually that founder that started something early, um, you know, he is the culture, she is the culture. Um, that leader is the culture, and they organically, if you will, grow culture because early days you can sit around the table. Uh, John, I know you guys have done this in a couple different situations, but you can sit around the table and you get to affect and impact those that are around the table. But if if you do that well, it's inevitably, inevitably gonna grow your business. You're gonna start to grow, you're gonna start to scale. And then all great leaders know that we have to put systems in place to scale. And so we scale our operations, we scale our marketing, we scale our stack tack, our tax, our tech stacks, excuse me. Um, but what we don't think about scaling along with that is the culture of the organization. Uh, and because now there's it's not just uh a few folks around the table, but you usually have a second and even working on potentially a third generation of leader, if you will, that's that's that's no longer connected to you. And so you connect to that second generation, but can no longer connect to that third level of leader. And if you've not thought very intentionally about scaling your culture, that's where you can lose the secret sauce of what got you to where you, where you are.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah, I think one thing you're so good at and have done both on the recruiting side and also on the wild spark side of developing a tech platform that helps develop leaders. One of the most fulfilling things as a business leader is developing leaders and and probably the most difficult thing is are developing leaders. So when you talk about multiplying leaders for a growing scaling business, what does that really mean? That like it's definitely a multifaceted, challenging process for sure.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I, you know, uh at the end of the day, um, as I was leaving my previous company and and and and and making that transition, we were out of Atlanta, uh, and we had built a great relationship with Dan Kathy, with the Kathy family, with Chick-fil-A. Um, and uh had an incredible opportunity to to spend time with him. Um, mentored myself and my previous business partner for a while. Um, but at the end of the day, he said there's two things. We asked, you know, Dan, what's the key? What's this the key to your success? You've had so much success. Really on both sides of that equation, on the business side. I mean, their business is uh is one of the fastest growing franchises in the world. Um, but then they also are known as the culture gold standard. And so, hey, what what is it? If you were to nail it, you boil it down, what's the key to success? And he said there's two things. Number one, you have to hire leaders that fit your values. The most important thing you do. Because when you get to a point where your business grows, you have to know you can scale the vision, mission, and then values of your organization. That's where most companies get sunk. Uh, and then he said, number two, you need to build your culture around growing and developing your leaders. And so in 2012, I started Fireseeds, which is a recruiting firm, but always had this passion. I want to come alongside our clients and really help them scale a leadership development philosophy and uh, if you will, initiative that could scale up their business, that could scale their culture. If growing leaders was something that was valued by them, and that's typically what they did, was they grew leaders quickly and that allowed them to grow their company, then how could we help them get leadership development to that third generation in the heart of the organization that they don't connect to anymore? And so that's where we built WildSpark. Uh, and it became a sister company to Fire Seeds. And at the end of the day, we wanted to scale this leadership development initiative uh through technology, through a SaaS business, a software as a service business, so that they could continue to help their leaders that the founder grew, continue to grow and develop more leaders. And so that was that was the whole idea, that was the whole vision, that was the whole from really from the beginning was that's what I want to give my life to. And so, how do you create, if you will, a monetary system that that fuels that and grows that? And so early on, the recruiting uh firm, if you will, funded and uh and invested in this this WildSpark platform, and then they became two separate independent companies and um and and the rest is kind of history. But yeah, that was the whole idea, that was the whole philosophy of how we then would create multiplying leaders, you know, and it in some seasons of of your organization, you need to find that leader and place that leader into a key position. Um, and then you want that leader to be a spark, to be a catalyst that will grow other leaders underneath their influence. And so that was the that was the the mad scientist hypothesis. Could I grow a company, build a company that did those things? That's what I'm passionate about. Uh, and could those could those companies actually make money and and be profitable and healthy? And uh it's been a neat ride.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

You were way ahead of your time. I mean, the things you're talking about now are kind of cool and everybody's talking about them, but you were you were thinking about these things and developing businesses around them when nobody else was was, which I think is um you know makes you an innovator and a and a and a founder in a lot of these these critical things that we know now work. And I love how you highlight the principles around intentionality. These things don't happen by accident. That's right. Uh and and your culture is who you are at the end of the day, and it will evolve to something you don't want it to be if you're not intentional about it. And if you're not intentional about growing the next round of leaders, number one, as the founder and business leader who started the whole thing, you're gonna be miserable because you're you're not gonna be able to grow and scale the business and you're gonna you're gonna get burned out. Uh but but number two, you're being a huge disservice um to your potential and the impact you can make. And I love how you're kind of creating that that machine of generational and multiplying leaders, meaning it goes down to the next round of leaders, to the next round of leaders, to the next round of leaders. So essentially that that mindset of we're growing people, we're growing and we're staying true to who we are, perpetuates, you know, pat past the you know, the uh you know, truett Cathy, right? I mean, he's done that better than anybody else, I think I would say, where he, you know, obviously he's no longer with us, but I mean his his impact is still being made today through generational leaders that he's he started the development of and is perpetuated on. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Dan Dan had given me, and and Truett had just passed when kind of I had my opportunity with Dan. And so there was a lot of, hey, this is what my dad said, this is what Truett said. This is true, you know, dad would always do X. Uh, but he he gave me this this uh this business Harvard, Harvard Business Review, uh, and it was called uh Building Talent Factories. And it said, you know, the companies in the 21st century uh that are gonna be successful, their advantage is gonna become is going to come from the fact that they build talent factories. Now, alongside their service or their product or whatever they're producing, they need to be a really good company. They've got to do business well. But those that have the advantage will create alongside of that, that efficient company, they'll create a talent factory, where as they grow in scale, they get to produce the one asset that you have to have to grow, and that's leaders ready. And so, you know, it's a long play. He would say it's a long play. And so those of you that start that way as founders and you build that into the core DNA of who you are, you've got the greatest chance at down the road passing up so many other companies that never made that investment. Um, because the larger you get, the harder it is to put that into the core of your company. But it doesn't mean you can't, right? It doesn't mean you can't be a company right now that says, man, I've never done that well. And uh, and so I'm gonna start now. I'm gonna start building in systems and processes around culture and leadership development that will build me this talent factory so I can build my own leaders. And uh, because it's amazing when you build the opportunity for young leaders to come into your organization, those that get to invest in those young leaders, guess what happens to them? They get better and better and better and they become masters of their craft only when they get to teach, right? Who who learns the most? You know, the teacher or the the recipient, you know, the pupil. No, the teacher grows. And so that's even with us, you know, we we've always said we're gonna always have, and I and I realize we haven't had an internship uh program in the last year and a half for various reasons. We got really busy and we started hiring at a different level. But then uh just recently we've come back and said, okay, one of the keys to our early success was we would always hire interns, not necessarily because of how much we got out of the interns and what they added to the company, but what they allowed to have happen to some of our other leaders who young leaders in our organization, that it gave them an opportunity when we didn't have the bandwidth to create a huge team underneath them. We let them lead interns. And so, as they were leading interns and training interns, uh, it made them better. It helped them sharpen their soul. It became mastercraftsmen and women. And um, and so um building this pipeline of leaders throughout your organization does a lot of things. It's such a good, it's a great ROI. It just takes a ton of time and investment.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Yeah, I love that to in today's the context of today's world, too, because everybody's so scared of AI replacing jobs and um it's definitely disrupting businesses and giving us more powerful tools to do our job and stuff like that. But leaders will never be replaced by AI. And uh AI will never function well in your business without leaders. And now more than ever, I think what you're talking about should be more important to businesses than ever before, because there's still a huge leadership gap in all areas of society, but especially in business. And if you really want to differentiate yourself and be able to leverage AI properly or any other disruption in technology that's gonna take place, it's all built on the foundation of a solid culture, a solid purpose of who you want to be, built on top of leaders who execute and stay true to that culture and develop more leaders. And all of those leaders are gonna be elevated by AI, but not replaced along the way. And and, you know, now more than ever, I think it's time to double and triple down on those leaders and developing leaders so that you can take advantage of these opportunities that exist right now.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Yeah, because here's the deal there's gonna be an ever-increasing gap between what AI can provide and just our natural movement towards the the least friction of growing something. And so what are we, what are more and more folks cutting out? They're cutting out uh the long play of leadership development. And so the gap's only gonna increase uh from their ability to have leaders at the highest level uh that really are the ones that are gonna continue to compound the growth of their uh of their organization because they're they're trying to, you know, AI is is incredible and we need to leverage AI, but it can't replace leadership development. And there are those organizations that have always built leaders, um, and I think they've got a much greater chance. But if if you're one that's that's you know, we haven't done that well, and we're just gonna wait a little longer because we think AI can replace that, it's it's gonna be a death cycle eventually because you'll run out of leaders. And you have at the end of the day at the top, you got to have leaders that are running leaders that then are leveraging AI to be as efficient as you possibly can be.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Cord, you talk a lot about identity and truth in leadership. What does identity actually mean for a business owner?

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Man, that's a great question. And that's something I am I have dove into in this this past year. Um it's something it's a place I'm really growing in. And it goes back to um, I mean, I'm a big Patrick Lancioni fan. He's got a book called The Advantage that's just, I mean, how do you gain the advantage through culture? And and he says this, he says there's there's really you know, you there's two aspects of organizations that that that drive success. One is you gotta be smart. I mean you gotta be a smart business. That means you just you gotta have all your ducks in a row and all the different categories of business that any business would would uh would need to do well. But then you gotta be healthy. Um and and to the degree that you focus on being healthy, and that's where your culture comes into play, um, is the degree that your advantage on top of being a smart company takes you past everybody else. And so at the end of the day, uh the the way you're healthy ultimately is it all comes back down to one word, and that's trust. It's it's at what level does your leadership team trust each other? Uh at what level do your people trust your leadership team? I mean, everything comes back to trust. Uh and so at the end of the day, trust is built on whether people believe you're telling the truth or not. Um and at the end of the day, um I mean, I'm learning, and I'm gonna say this, it's gonna, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a uh uh a powerful statement, and it has been to me, but someone mentioned this to me, and it's like we are all liars, and we're conditioned to lie and to can to to continue to lie throughout our life, and we think it's for the sake of others. Like we're not gonna really tell them the truth about what we really thought about fill in the blank, that presentation, uh, that's uh the preparation for that sales call. Um, we, you know, it how many times do we really speak? We think into our uh into our own minds and ask, what is the absolute truth that I want to tell this person? Then how often do we regulate that truth? Uh, because we think it's gonna be, it's it's gonna be kinder for the individual. Um and the more and more we do that, we live in a world of fiction that's not even real. Um, and we begin to believe that that's that's the way people are led. Uh versus if, you know, and so something I'm really trying to uh to really think about literally every day is in every conversation, and I mean every conversation, whether this is with my wife, whether it's with my kids, whether it's with a team member, you know, what is the real truth? And they know this, and so I've decided, hey, look, you know I'm learning to tell the truth, and so I'm gonna tell you my truth right now. And it's brutal honest. I mean, it's just honesty that's really, really is pretty brutal if you're not used to it. But what I've seen is that as I am really, really honest, they're like, wow, thank you. And maybe not the first time. The first time I, that was hardcore. Uh, but but I haven't done that that well. And so over time, they're coming back and saying, wow, that that means a ton to me because I never have to wonder if what you're saying is really true. And so it has radically changed. And I've really challenged my leadership team to this. We are gonna tell the truth. That means we're gonna be brutally honest about the hard things in our organization, the hard things in our relationship. Um, and we had some transition recently with some leaders that where we just didn't have a lot of a lot of honesty. We didn't have a lot of vulnerability-based trust. You couldn't come in the room and say, you know what, I really screwed this up. Can I, can I get you guys to help me? And so Pat Lynn Syone talks about this vulnerability-based trust that ultimately is at the core of super healthy of super healthy organizations because they they rigorously and ruthlessly tell the truth in every situation. And people love following truth tellers because they never have to wonder is that really what you meant. So that's just a little bit, I mean, just to unpack a little bit of what I'm learning right now. Um, and so much has to do with um the reasons I don't tell the truth, they're all, as I look at them, they're all selfish. They're about me not wanting to be exposed in certain areas of my life, uh, that if I'm truthful here, maybe they'll ask for truth in other areas. And so what I found is even when they do ask for truth in those other areas, we just get closer and closer and closer because there are no secrets. We're not hiding anything anymore. And so one of the greatest quotes I've heard lately is the most powerful and peaceful man or woman in the room is the one who has nothing to hide. And so, man, I am learning that right now in a lot of different parts of my life. And it is so freeing as a leader. So, a little bit of what I'm doing in my own personal leadership.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Core, let's go off script here a little bit. Stay there for a moment because it it strikes me that that commitment to truth, to brutal honesty, that's really uncomfortable for a lot of folks. How do you coach leaders to lean into that discomfort and and what's your what's your approach there?

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah. Um so if you were to ask me, you know, what is if I if I can look at one area of your culture and I and and tell you if you are healthy or not? Um all there's you know, we do a culture benchmark, we've got eight areas of culture, and there's three couple subsets to all those different areas. But there's one area, if I could just see one thing, it would be how regularly do you ask for feedback? It's it's how regularly do you give it, but really how regularly do you ask? Do your leaders ask for feedback? And so at the end of the day, being able to give, and so as we as we kind of back into that question, because that's what we're trying to get them to do, we have to, we have to help them see how valuable feedback really is. But it's most valuable and really only valuable if it's feedback that is true. And so, and if we can all tell the truth and give true feedback all the time, then that allows others to begin to get comfortable around the areas they need to improve in every day. And that's not something you do once a year at an annual review or even twice a year. We do it, we do it, we do formal and reviews twice a year, but we want there to never be surprises in those. Our greatest way we evaluate our evaluations was there ever surprises that our people felt when we get into these, these, these mid-year and end of the year reviews. Uh no, because we're we're really working on trying to give really, really consistent feedback. And then here's the key question we always ask, all right, did you go the last 10%? You know, most of us go, we go, some of us don't go, don't go 50%, but some of us that think we're telling the truth, and this was me, I would say I go usually 80 to 90%, but I don't say that one thing that's the last term, 10%. And so in all of our feedback sessions, and I mean that I want those to be daily. If you interact with somebody on any kind of engagement, the leader needs to take responsibility to say, hey, give me feedback. One thing. What's one thing I did well? What's one thing I could improve? Um, and then if you can build that in the core of how you engage, you just get so much better within a week's time, within a month's time, that the companies that are giving ongoing feedback like that, they win because they become new versions of themselves two or three times over in a year because there's so much feedback being given. But to give the most powerful feedback that opens the door for me to always want to ask for it and or give it, I gotta know you're willing to tell the last 10%. What's the last 10%? We call it the the the second margarita 10%, right? Like, okay, you some sometimes you need to get together and uh and you just need to have that second margarita and really have the conversation. And uh, and so uh that that's a little bit of the key uh to to how we get there. Another thing is they know there's a unrelenting commitment to deal with conflict. Um said literally that is something I see as one of my main jobs as a CEO is to be able to give a very safe place for people to help me help them engage with conflict. A, to know when to come. And we would say, you know, and I love Ramsey. Ramsey's big on this whole principle of zero tolerance for gossip. And uh and he'd say gossip is anytime you you you have a negative conversation with someone that can do nothing about it. And that means that's anybody parallel to you in the organization, and especially somebody underneath. He said, the only place you go with negative things is up. Um, and when you want to share and ask for it for how to deal with conflict. And so so we we talk about conflict all the time. I always end up do you have do you have any conflict with anybody in the organization, or do you know of any conflict that might be brewing anywhere on any team? I ask that all the time. And they know I'm gonna ask it. And so it get could and and and I'm always someone that can can help them deal with it because I'm I I have the top position in my organization. And I think with that comes this responsibility. The the number one thing, if if if you're a culture company that can start to erode culture is when you have individuals that aren't dealing with conflict, and then you start to have silos in your organization that aren't dealing with conflict. And so at the end of the day, back and just second to it is how you deal with conflict. And that's if you do those two things well in your culture, in your organization with your culture, everything else kind of falls in under those, those two principles, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Cord, let's spend a little time talking about the the the broader concept of a company. So once we as founders, we as leaders, we have that commitment to truth and transparency and honesty. Uh, we're vulnerable, we crave feedback. Um once you have that degree of of getting healthy internally, how does that shape like how a leader uh finds and develops other leaders?

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Yeah, I mean, it's first of all, it frees you up, right? It frees you up to not have to have all the answers. I think that's that's one of the biggest roadblocks to thinking I really need to become a top-tier leader is I just get to learn and have all the answers. And the opposite is that of that is actually true. To the degree that you come. I mean, think about great coaches, right? Great coaches don't come bring the answers. Great coaches, they know how to just simply ask a lot of great questions. And so leadership, at the end of the day, great leaders ask great questions. Great leaders very rarely have to, they don't, they don't have to teach a ton. They don't have to come in with the answers, they don't have to be right. In fact, it's more powerful when you're not right. And you come in and say, you know, I don't, I don't know the answer to this. Um, let's talk about the best solution to figuring it out together. So it's this this whole idea that we we as leaders, it doesn't mean I have to come and have everything it takes to have all the answers and and lead the individual to what whatever, whatever it is we're trying to accomplish together. Uh again, that vulnerability-based leadership where you can come in and say, Man, I'm here to support you. I'm here to help you figure this out. Let me ask you some questions to kind of see where we are. Um, that's that's that's what I see across the board in great leaders is you come out of a conversation with them and they they haven't really talked a whole lot outside of just asking questions. Take the pressure off. Take the pressure off your shoulders and uh just start learning to ask a lot of questions. Be curious. One of my favorite, favorite statements that I'll make is tell me more. Man, that's really, really interesting. Tell me more about filling the blank. And it just breeds again a culture where we're all growing each other. Um, and it's not like I'm up here teaching you down here. Um I've got four boys, one son's 23, one is 18, one's 16, one's 13. And I think early on, I thought for my 23-year-old, I had to be the dad that was up here teaching him all the time. And I realized that I missed out. What I'm able to do with my 13-year-old is come come next to him. It's not completely parallel, but it's not up here as a father speaking down to a son. It's a father coming in and saying, Let me tell you where I've struggled, where I've really dropped the ball, how hard it has been for me. And uh, and then let me ask some questions for you. And it changes everything in the relationship. And so um just just just some thoughts around you just you got to take the pressure off. Uh, if you're just real and again, you tell the truth, like it, it it frees you up to be a leader that doesn't have to have all the answers. People love to follow those kind of leaders.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

I imagine a lot of founders, as they're scaling their company, there's just some hesitation to get things off of their shoulders. They want to, they, they want to carry the whole burden. John, you could probably uh talk to this, but uh what what happens, Court, if you know, a leader doesn't step back with some intentionality to develop their team and develop their leaders, and instead they just kind of keep their nose to the grindstone, chasing that growth.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yeah, they they they miss out on successional leadership. Um, at the end of the day, like what we crave in the innermost parts of our being is successional leadership. Like we desire for someone to sacrificially invest into us. And when that happens, I ask anytime I go and speak with a group or come into a company, one of the questions I always ask is, hey, tell me who your multiplying leader was. Like, who's the one person uh in your life? And I did it, I think, at your at when I got to speak with you guys. Like, who's that one person? Could be a coach, could be a teacher, could be that has invested into you. Um, and and and how many of you had to think about? Nobody has to think about it. It's like, oh, I know who that person is because we were so impacted by that person who sacrificially invested into us. But what we, I mean, what we get thrilled inside of our souls about is when we also then get to invest in others and we get to see someone else grow. And so I think when you don't have a successional mindset as a leader, as a founder, you miss out on a lot of the joy and morale that comes from being invested in and investing in others. Uh, and then that part of that leadership conversation we just had is you allowing your people to invest in you by saying, wow, teach me more. Like you're so much better at that than I am. Like you want to talk about them running through brick walls for you. Like, so this whole success, I mean, I'm a big, big proponent of successional leadership. I mean, there's three mindsets you got to have. I think I shared them uh when I spoke with you guys as well. I mean, you got to have a growth mindset. Number one, if you're gonna come work for me, hey, if you don't want to grow a whole lot and and and give a lot of feedback and us give you a lot of feedback, not gonna be a good place. You've got to have a growth mindset. And then two, you got to have an ownership mindset from day one, like I want you being a steward here. Uh, you got to own this. You got to own this with me because I need your help to own this with me. And then third, you got to have from day one a successional leadership mindset, a successional mindset. Is that from day one, I'm gonna think about how I can start investing in others. And that's never gonna be day one, typically down. Uh, it's gonna be typically horizontally into others that I'm working with and collaborating with. Um, and then as that happens and you you start living out those three, we're gonna give you people, we're gonna give you teams to lead, and you're gonna be able to pass that down. So yeah, it's it all comes back to uh being healthy so that you can spend the majority of your time successionally investing in other people, especially as the CEO. Like you get to, I mean, if if that's how you see your role as the founder and CEO, is I just get to go and all the pressure's off. I don't have to have the answers. I don't have to be the one to grow the company. I mean, you said yeah what I what I pride myself in is I am the least smart guy in the in the room. And and I know, hey, there are there are plenty of CEOs that are really, really smart. John, you're a lot smarter than I am, but I believe I've been able to completely make up for that and then cash in on that because I'm willing to elevate others in a place uh that some founders, that's hard, right? It's hard to delegate. And it's hard for me in certain areas too. So don't think I've got this, the corner on the market. But um, again, everything I'm learning right now is I can be so freed up to just think about the successional part of my leadership. And that's the most important thing I can do for my company right now. It's maybe give the that that ownership away, if you will, from running the company and thinking for the teams and just think about how can I pour into my highest leaders and make sure they're successfully doing the same.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Or that's super powerful. And I know somebody out there listening right now is identifying with this, with this problem, this evolution that has to happen. So for those folks that that are listening that may realize they've drifted, they haven't been focusing on developing leaders. What's their first move? What do they need to do right now?

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Yeah. I mean, that's I mean, that's why I built Wild Spark. It you you're in a place now where you're looking at your organization and the level three, if you will, or the third generation is so far out of your reach, you kind of throw your hands up and say, where do I start? Well, for some, they need to hire a key leader that can kind of meet the vision in the middle, is what I'd say. You know, a leader that that you can hire that comes alongside you and wholeheartedly believes in the vision, mission, and values of the organization that can be the middleman to that third generation or that fourth generation. Now, and so whoever that key leader is that you you want to bring in on that executive team, that you need to bring on that executive team, make sure they, if you were to get hit by a bread truck, they would pass on the vision, mission, and values of the organization. Now, hopefully you have a whole executive team that'll do that. But if you don't, um, that's that's what you need. And you need to begin to champion them to do that successionally. Uh, but then hiring those key leaders, the next, the next round of key leaders that you hire, make sure, and this is what we, this is kind of what we do on the fire seed side, is that they are a multiplying leader. There's an intrinsic value and drive inside of them that just naturally says, wherever I go and whatever role I play, along with doing my job excellently, I'm I have a value system that invests in building other people, that grows other people. And I, you know, I didn't know are there enough of those type of people out there to sell a whole brand around it? And I've been blown away by the, the, the, the level of leader that is out there, that is in a job right now, making great money, being super successful. But when I cast a vision of a company that really wants to use all of that leadership, but then has a value to want to be investing in others, they say, man, I I'll take a pay cut for that. Because they realize, and most of these leaders are getting into the mid, the middle, middle parts of their life, or even on the backside, they've had a halftime moment. And they're like, man, this is not about just climbing the ladder and making money anymore. Like, want this to be significant. And it's only significant when it when you start seeing the lives of people change. So that's that's really what we offer. And we have to have clients that that really wholeheartedly, that's who they are. But that's that's been the beautiful thing, too. There's a lot of those out there too. They really do. These CEOs, these leadership teams, they they know eventually they know, like, my legacy is going to be left, yes, with my family, but it's gonna be left in my organization. That that's where I'm most gifted. That's where I have spent the majority of my life leading companies, leading people, growing a staff of 50 to 500 families. It just it just makes sense. I need to be very intentional to leave my legacy there. So um, I get pretty fired up about this stuff. So uh when I see a CEO leaning in around that or an executive team that, man, we we want that. It can happen, even if you've lost it or if you've never had it, but you got to start with making some investments, and that might be in a key leader, or that might be in a system and process that's gonna help you scale leadership and leadership growth and your people being able to grow leaders in your organization.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Extremely powerful. Cord, one thing we like to do with each of our guests is ask this what's one quote or one piece of advice that has made a significant impact on you as personally as a leader?

SPEAKER_02 37:35

I I would say, I mean, so much of of what I'm learning right now is just around like this, the freedom that comes uh from telling the truth. You know, and I gave you one of my my my favorite quotes earlier around the most powerful man or woman in the room is the one who has nothing to hide. But I'm really, I'm really the the quote that I'm I'm holding on to more than more than um more than others right now is one out of a book called Um Living Fearless. Uh and it talks about the difference of living your life fictionally and and living your life lined up with the truth. And so for me, when I'm when I'm telling the truth in every area, I'm not living in a fictional world. I'm living in a real world. That doesn't mean things are all going great. In fact, right now it's kind of a hard time in my life. And so there's some real, real things about me uh that are hard in my life. And so I'm able to put those real things up against what's true and see what do I need, what what are the truths about who I am and my identity that I need to believe? And what are the what are the ones that I need to capture and I need to disintegrate? Um, and so a quote, the quote that I've loved, he said, what is real is not always true, but what is true is always real. And so what is true, I might be feeling in certain times of my life that wow, I don't have what it takes, or wow, I feel shameful about something I've done in my life. That's a real feeling. Now, is that true about who I am and my identity? No. But if I put that along with my truth uh that comes from my personal relationship with the Lord, then I can then adjust and know that, hey, what is real is not always true, but what is true is always real. And then I can make the decision to live in light of that, and that's radically having an impact on me at just turning 50 years old. Amazing. John, any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Corey, I just want to thank you. I mean, there's so much wisdom. And as you were talking, I was just realizing myself as the you know, self-awareness is a superpower in so many ways. And I think us leaders get distracted by perhaps performance, results, and stuff like that. And the reality of as you kind of move up the leadership food chain, you have less and less in control of any of the day-to-day things or any of the end results or the performance of the company. And I think the the true leaders that really multiply themselves change the game. They change the game from like just winning that that one run, getting that one run on the scoreboard to um making sure you're developing people that can score more runs than you ever thought possible and staying aligned with the right scoreboard so you win at the right thing. And uh, you know, one thing I've been personally kind of just working on and thinking about is like, how do I develop and mentor discernment across leaders? Because that's what I really want. I want to help them stay aligned to where we're going, stay aligned to our culture, but I can't make their decisions for them. And I definitely can't make their decisions for their team members all the way down to the tip of the spear to the people that are really impacting the customers and making a difference in the day-to-day of the people that we serve as a business. But I can help them make wise decisions and learn how to make wise decisions, which at the end of the day truly perpetuates the culture, the values of the company, and makes sure the company wins long term, even though they may lose the inning, they end up winning the game. And so I just I really appreciate you for all your wisdom, how you do things and and how you've invested a majority of your life into developing leaders that do these kinds of things and also developing great software and and and content that allows us to help teach that to our team members and and and grow the right kinds of leaders so that we really built a company with intentionality. And uh at the end of the day, when we're done, we we were a success on the things that really mattered and not the things that didn't matter. Yeah, because at the end of the day, 80,000 hours.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

That's we we spent a lot of time at work, the majority of our lives at work. Uh, we might as well align it with uh what's gonna really matter in life, and that's impacting the lives of uh of those that have given us so much of their own time.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Powerful cord. Just to echo, John, thank you so much for being here, for sharing your wisdom and your insights and for being a friend. Uh, for those listening, if you want to learn more about Cord uh or Fire Seeds or Wild Spark, we're gonna include links and uh resources in the show notes. Um as always want to catch past episodes of the podcast, it's fastslowmotion.com slash podcast or on your favorite platform. Uh, if you have a question or topic you want us to dig into on a future episode, uh you can reach out to us via that same website and drop us your ideas in there. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next time.