Anonymous: I’ve Spent My Whole Life Thinking About What People Think of Me

In today’s conversation, an anonymous guest opens up about his lifelong search for attention, approval, and validation. 

From relationships and flirtation to achievement and external success, he describes the exhausting cycle of wanting to feel wanted while never fully believing the affirmation he receives.

As the conversation unfolds, deeper questions begin to surface. What happens when your sense of self is shaped by what other people think of you? Why does validation never seem to last? And how do you begin to separate genuine connection from the need to be reassured that you matter?

Through it all, one question anchors the conversation. Where am I in this?

As you listen, notice what comes up for you in your own story, because even if the situation is different, the patterns are often the same.

If you’ve ever chased approval, avoided uncomfortable emotions, or felt disconnected from yourself, this conversation will likely resonate in a very real way.

Get Dr. Lee Long’s brand new book WAIT, Where Am I in This here: https://tinyurl.com/mtfm6bh8

The WAIT, Let's Talk About That with Dr. Lee Long podcast is intended solely for general informational purposes and does not represent the practice of medicine, therapeutic and psychiatric services, nursing, or other professional health care services. It also does not constitute the provision of medical, therapeutic or psychiatric advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is established. The information on this podcast and any materials linked from it are used at the user's own risk. The content provided through this podcast should not be considered a replacement for professional medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It is important that users do not ignore or postpone seeking medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice for any health or mental health condition they might have, and should always consult with their health care professionals regarding such conditions.

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Transcript

Cold Open New Lenses

SPEAKER_05 0:01

It feels like everything we've talked about. I have new lenses on now looking at it. Okay. From this conflict that I came in. Yes. Feeling.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 0:11

I feel like I have new lenses on right now.

How The Show Works

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Welcome to Wait. Let's talk about that. The podcast where you don't just hear about therapy, you hear it happening. I'm Dr. Lee Long, and joining me again is my co-host, Lila Pond, licensed professional counselor and supervisor at Restoration Counseling.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Hey everyone. What makes this podcast different is simple. No script, no rehearsal, and a lot to learn. You're sitting in on a real interview using the wait method with a real person in real time.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Today our guest will remain anonymous, and he's here to work through something real and to let you watch the wait method come to life as we go.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

So settling in, listen for the moment that something shifts because it always does.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

So before we begin, a quick disclaimer: this conversation is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Although I'm a licensed professional counselor in Texas, this podcast is not therapy and does not create a counselor-client relationship. It is not medical or mental health advice. By participating, our guest understands that this recording is public and consents to us editing and publishing the conversation. You confirm? I do. Okay. Awesome. Here we go. I am so appreciative of you coming in and being willing to sit down with me and have this conversation. I have an upcoming book and the concepts in this book, I think I've had conversations with people about it and in my own therapy practice. And the concepts are pretty simple and people get it and agree with it, but then the practice of it can tend to be a little bit difficult. So I thought it would be a good idea to have examples of setting forth interpersonal conflicts or things that you're sorting through and to see if we can illustrate for people like, hey, this is what we're talking about. So thanks so much for being willing. I I love that. Yeah. I'm excited about it. Right on. Did you have a conflict or an experience that you wanted to walk through today?

A Lifelong Need For Attention

SPEAKER_02 2:29

I do.

SPEAKER_05 2:30

I wouldn't say that it's based off of um off a specific experience.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:37

But maybe more so leaning towards like an internal battle that I feel like I've had for really my whole life. And I I've I've been in counseling since I was 19, like pretty regularly, at least multiple times a year. So that'd be 11, 11 years. And um, there's this thing for me that I feel sometimes no control over.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

Where I would say like the foundation of it is this deep, deep desire for attention and approval and in some sort of feeling. If that comes out in ways with because of my my my relationship growing up with like my dad, yeah, like approval from mentor figure that's an older man.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:26

Or it can also come out in ways with with women and females in in relationships if it's a fling or if it's a long-term thing. And it sometimes feels like for me, and I'd say really mainly towards the the female side, it sometimes feels for me that like I'll kind of do anything and and and and everything and whatever to get get this attention. Yeah. And this quick quick hit almost. Quick fix. What does it give to you that attention, that quick fix? What is it? It's a feeling. I think that the the e the I don't know if I'd say evil, but like the um one side of it comes as like, oh, just flirt flirtation and having fun. And then the other side can come out in maybe a more sexualized way.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

And I think I'd wrap all that up in saying, what does it give me? I would probably say for myself, like, just some kind of shot of adren, I don't know if it's adrenaline or dopamine or whatever. What's the emotion? I would say the the main emotion is probably feeling wanted and feeling um, I wouldn't say accepted. I would I would probably lean towards saying it it makes me feel wanted in the flip in the flirtation. And then if it comes out with like approval from like a father figure or mentor figure or or boss, yeah, or even peer, someone saying, Hey man, you're like really you're good at your job, or or you did this really well, like yeah, that feels really good. And I think it should, you know, like I think that that should, but yeah, I think sometimes things come out like that's the pure way, and maybe that mentor figure.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 5:10

And I'm trying to figure out maybe this is the conflict. I'm trying to figure out what's the pure way of receiving attention. Like I'm I'm single, I was engaged, and then that that was called off. So as a single male now, I'm trying to figure out what's the pure way for that attention in the relationship side of things.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Yeah.

Why Compliments Bounce Off

SPEAKER_02 5:33

I think that's a really, really good question. My first question to you, if I may, would be do you agree that you're good at your job?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 5:47

I would say yes, but you know the funny thing is whenever like uh someone will say that, no matter who it is, I will brush it off. You know, the the classic not not be able to take a compliment. Right. And I'll I'll brush it off. But then internally, you know, if I'm looking at like numbers, internally I'm like, there's a little bit of pride in it. Yeah. But whenever someone were to if someone were to say something of regarding that, I I would brush it off. But I I genuinely do, I I feel like I I am good at my job. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

When you brush it off, what are you brushing off?

SPEAKER_05 6:21

Attention, which is odd. Why because why is it odd in your mind? Because I feel like I'm like an attention whore, honestly. And and that that's why it's odd, is I at times will do things for attention or to be seen, you know?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

And I catch myself throughout the day doing that. If it's a a post on a social media about a deal I just got under contract, or if it's like wanting people to know that like I drive a nice car. Like there's there's really weird ways that it comes out that I like want people to notice and affirm me.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

I don't know. Because if they affirm you, what do you feel? If they notice, what do you feel? Like they'll think I'm something. Okay, but what about you thinking that? Where are you in that?

SPEAKER_05 7:11

I don't know. I don't know what I I guess that's a good question. I don't I don't really even know if I have thoughts about myself. I think I just spend my whole life like thinking about what other people think about me. Yes. Which is a paradox, but yeah, I don't really know.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

That I think is at the core of being at an attention whore, to use your phrase. Yeah. Which I like. Is that idea that I am seeking something external to feed something internal that I'm still trying to determine what I believe or not. Is that fair?

SPEAKER_05 7:48

That's really fair. Yeah, that's really fair. And the interesting thing is I don't even feel like I like you asked the question of how what do I believe about myself and what do I think and I like really haven't ever even thought about that.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

You know, I haven't ever really sat down and been like, and I think if if you're going through for me, like being a believer and going through the scriptural route, like these things that God says I am. Okay. I've always said like you can read that as much as you want, right? And what about what God says that you are. But like if you don't believe that, then it it kind of misses the the mark. Yeah, misses the mark and misses the point. And I I guess wrapping all that to say, like, I don't even know what I'm getting attention for because I don't even really know what like I don't maybe I maybe it's fair to say I don't even know who I am in some regards.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

I think in these instances, I don't want to globalize it because if we do, then when you think that, like, gosh, I don't even know who I am, what feeling all of a sudden comes over you?

SPEAKER_05 8:49

Like my heart's beating a little faster because it's yeah, I feel lost a little bit. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

And it's like, I don't want you to feel lost.

SPEAKER_05 8:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Because I think sometimes we globally look for who we are when perhaps a more not approachable, what's where what's the word I'm looking for? Attainable. Realistic or realistic would be who am

WAIT Where Am I In This

SPEAKER_02 9:13

I right now? Where am I, where am I, who am I, but where am I? You know, where am I in this? Like that's the whole premise of what my book is about is this idea that do we know where we are? Where am I in this? If you see that, like the where am I in this? The acronym is wait. Wait, where am I? Where am I in this? Because what you're saying is, and I asked you, are you good at your job? Yeah, like I look at the stats that are outside of me. Sure. So I think I'm good.

unknown 9:46

Right?

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Because it's all defined in the world. Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

No, that's funny you caught that. Because yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

And so that's the space of it being, wait, where am I? Because when you say I sh I kind of push away or shove off compliments, it's like, yeah, I feel you. Because if somebody's telling me something that I don't know if I agree with or not, that I'm like, oh, hold on. Thank you. Yeah. Do I agree? Don't know. It's like, is this even true? Exactly. Yeah. Because my hope would be that at the end of the day, we experience something and somebody says, Oh my gosh, you're so good at this. You're like, Yeah, I believe that. Like, thanks. Like, we're in agreement rather than I'm in a place of saying, Wait, do you think so?

SPEAKER_05 10:30

Yeah, or like setting it up subtly for for someone to say something or think about me in a certain way. Right. For sure. Right. This is interesting. It's funny. It's like I'm kind of having revelations right now. I've been doing counseling for 11 years, but like it almost feels like a blank wall. The attentions and an affirmation, if it's from friends or if it's from a woman, like it just hits the blank wall and falls off. Yes. Because there's n I don't even know what's up. I don't even know what the wall is. Right. You know, I it can't catch anything because that's right. There's not a foundation for me of like, I don't I don't know. I don't know if I'd say confidence because I feel like I'm a confident person, but maybe self self, maybe self-worth or self-esteem. I don't, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

I I would I would press here if I could. Please, and say it's really more of I believe, it's more about self-understanding. Self-understanding. Because like when you use the blank anal blank wall analogy, to me, it's like somebody throws their coat up against the wall, like they throw something to you, and there's no hook for it to stick on. And that hook would be, yes, I agree. You know, if if somebody says if somebody says to me, you know, gosh, you're a really good dad, I would say, I agree with you. Thank you. Thank you for seeing that part of me. I know that I love my kids. I know that I do my very best for them. So thank you. I can agree to that. Now, if somebody says, Wow, you are a phenomenal musician, I'd be like, wait, what? Yeah, where'd that come from? Okay. Don't know. Yeah.

unknown 12:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Have I played around with music in my life? Absolutely. Do you do I believe that I'm a musician? No. No.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Dating Flirtation Shame And Envy

SPEAKER_05 12:27

I guess I would switch it then to I'd love to hear your thoughts and dialogue on like the I don't know how to say it, woman, female, like the significant, like that kind of the inner interactions with gals or women. And part of me is like want wanting to hear like a quick fick answer, quick fix answer. And that's just not to your acronym WAIT. Like, I don't think it is, there is no such thing as a quick fix on it or one size fits all. But like for me, the desire for attention from, and I feel like I know where it comes from, or maybe stems from, moments in my life of not much of a relationship or attention and approval from my mom. And then in middle school, just being a little bit like of a dweeby kid and not a good-looking kid. And then in high school, that changing, and I start to get this attention for the first time, and I don't know what to do with it. And then it feels like since then I don't know what to do with it. You know, that makes sense. And so I guess just in that world, to go back to the phrase of like attention whore. Yeah. I like I hate that, you know? And I think in my past, because of that, part of me, like I've I've hurt people, and and I hate that a lot. And and there's a lot of guilt and shame, honestly, in that. And um, yeah, I don't I don't know how to reconcile that of like where does that come from? How does that get fixed to where I've got friends who like dating or not, like there's no no problem in that world, if that makes sense. In the sense, in the in the in the line of like there's no temptation to go flirt around or be promiscuous or this or that, you know? Sure. And I see that and envy that.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:12

I see that and I envy that. Envy that because that seems like the more like that seems this is a weird phrase to say for it, but that seems like a more a more Christ-like character trait and feature. Right. For somebody. Like I'm thinking of a couple specific friends who I have who I'm like, oh man, you would for your wife, or just even whenever I knew as a single person, like there was no there was no foolery, I guess. Or like there was no seeking out this attention in X, Y, and Z ways. Okay. So that's kind of why I would say I'm jealous of it.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Okay. And again, if I may push, yes, please. Okay. That's still all externalized, is I see them, and I guess jealousy isn't externalized, but it, but if we could bring it back to you, is it because I want to be that? Is it because I want the feeling of that?

SPEAKER_05 15:06

Dang, man, you're good. Um just making me making me think in ways, like even calling out that like my first natural reaction to both of these kind of combos we've just had, yeah, have been external. Yes. You know, and that's just kind of where my mind goes. Sure. But which ties back to again the attention side of like externally, what do people think about me and all that. But I am Well, and to go ahead. Well, I wasn't, I was gonna say, I why do I envy that? I would say because yes, I I want, I want, I want those character traits because I think for for me, I don't know. At the end of the day, I'm like, I just I've I've lived in it too long, and it's uh in the sense of like just if it's being flirtatious or the promiscuous side or this or that, like it's led me nowhere. And it's led me to like hurting people and it's led to broken relationships.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Which leaves you with feeling.

SPEAKER_05 15:58

Which leaves me with one, I mean, just like maybe an overarching thing is just not a good guy. Of course, and I think to myself, okay, and do you know what? As you just even said that, I feel like I don't even think I'm a good guy. Like, yeah, at the core, I don't even know if I I don't even know if I think that.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Hmm. Hmm. I don't want this to feel like it's a a stripping down of anything other than how do I articulate this? That it's a it's a stripping away of all those false senses of who I am and how I determine who I am when I really don't even know what I'm after. You know what I mean? Like if it's like if you wanted to go out and be like, if you wanted to go become like an Olympic swimmer and all you did was swing a bat all day long, I don't Good luck. Yeah, I don't know how you're gonna do. You know what I mean? Yeah. As opposed to being somebody who says, like, wait, I know that I'm gifted as a singer. And so now I'm gonna go, I'm gonna start singing and doing vocal training. And but I really thought I wanted to be an Olympic swimmer while swinging a bat. Hopefully that analogy makes sense. It does. I'm going in the wrong direction for who I am.

Parents Identity And Missing A Me

SPEAKER_02 17:16

We be, I believe we come into this world with a certain bent. And that bent is a gift. And all too often that gift gets overlooked because I don't think we've had a whole lot of understanding in the older generations that we don't come out a blank slate and that our parents are just gonna write on us what they think we should do. I can't tell you how many dads I see who look at their sons and say, you're going to be a left hand lefty, and I'm gonna make you a first baseman, and you're gonna be a left-handed pitcher, and every coach in your high school years are gonna want you on their baseball team. Or I'm gonna grow you up and you're gonna be the biggest, meanest left tackle because that's what I want it to be. Just projection. Exactly. And I think that when we aren't given space to know who we are, and we're not allowed to explore that, and of course, in a healthy context, that we walk around thinking, okay, you told us, you told me who I am. I'm supposed to be a lefty, but dang it, everything I do goes right. Like I write right-handed, I swing right-handed, I do all I kick right-handed. I but I'm supposed to be, okay, well, I'm gonna push. And you're telling me, Am I good? Am I okay? And so, yes, we may have attachment to our family, to our parents, but but that attachment is missing the attachment to self. We don't understand who we are. And so earlier, your question about so how does this play out romantically or with partners or with ladies? I have to know, I have to have a me to bring to we. And if I don't have a me, then I'm really just coming to you to tell me I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Huh.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

I'm good, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:21

Oh. Thing. The analogies you just used of the of maybe parents projecting on kids, as you were talking, I felt like I had this revelation that was like, with how distant my parents were, I don't even think they told me who I was or who I should be. Wow. And I think that I I think that I just started to find that in whatever I could.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 19:45

And I think whenever I like I gave my life to to Jesus in 10th grade, that was my identity. Like I quit basketball, I quit football, I quit all the sports to be the church guy and go volunteer every single day, do the internships, and it just wrapped my identity. And then just being on staff at a church later on, like that ended up blowing up because I, as you were just saying, the I have to know me. Yeah, I got into the whole Jesus and church thing, and I didn't even know there was I honestly did it because everyone around me did it.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:19

And I followed it because everybody around me was saying I was good at it and I should do it. Yeah. The the church youth pastor thing. Yeah. And so I don't think I ever really had anybody, I don't even know if I I have had friends and people tell me who encourage me of who I am, but I don't think I've ever thought about it myself. And so on the relationship and if it's romance or or or the promiscuous whatever side of gals and and girls and ladies, like, yeah, I'm just I'm just searching for something because I'm yeah, I don't even know. I think the rev I you asked something that made me think, like, I just don't even think I'm a good guy, and I think that's the core of like why maybe I continue just to like a dog and someone's throwing toys, like I'm just like, oh, someone threw it there, oh over there, like just very emotionally driven and attention driven. Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's a foundation for me, a strong one.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

That makes sense. And I think that I think that if you discover that foundation, I think you know what to run after and what you don't. Yeah. Meaning, or one knows what to run after and what not. Sure. Now of course we're gonna make mistakes. Nobody's perfect, right? But I think that not knowing, feeling like there was sort of that distant attachment that I'm just seeking connection. Connection to what. The the interesting thing is is when we look at childhood development, we oddly learn who we are through interpersonal connection first.

Attachment And Learning Who You Are

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Which is why I believe we go seek it external because that's what's supposed to come first. But when we don't know where that attachment lies, we stay externalized and we don't bring it in. I mean, you think about like kids when they are firstborn, it's like they don't know the difference between them and their caregiver, right? Right. So they're just a big lump of flesh, you know, that's really amazing. They're more than that. I'm not trying to reduce a baby. But there's that place where they're just like they they don't do much. And you hold them and you coo with them and you love on them and you talk to them, and you'll see them like when you talk to a baby, they're kind of making your faces right back at you. Right. That's part of attachment. Huh. Okay. They're learning that externally. And then they get to the toddler years, and oh, those are infamous. That's where they're learning to be their own independent self. No, I'll do it. Mine, me. You know, they push everybody away because they're learning to individuate. And then it comes back to that interpersonal piece where it's like they have a best friend, they have people in their lives, they learn to interact. And then we hit a, you know, sometime in mostly, well, it's probably in high school, it's about 15 on. It's like, I have me and I have you and you and you. And now I can make space for a group. And then it's now I can hold me and who I am, and I can hold you and who you are. And we can have disagreements, but we can still be connected. And it's like we do connection through interpersonal intra or self-understanding. Others, us, others, us, and we balance it. And so what you're saying is that you're looking for that balance still external, yeah, because you don't believe that the internal, that the self-understanding or it what's called intra-personal awareness, that self-awareness, you don't, you're not yet buying it. And so in those moments when you say, when someone asks you, well, when I ask you, you know, do you think you're good at your job? And I wonder if you could sit and ask yourself, wait, where am I in this? Well, the emotions are I'm uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_05 24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

I'm just reading what I think what you're saying to me is I'm uncomfortable. I don't know. And not knowing doesn't feel what would you put to that? Good. Okay. Oh, sorry. Not knowing.

SPEAKER_05 24:28

Yeah. Yeah, not not knowing for me makes yeah, it makes it makes me uncomfortable, honestly. You're reading yeah, you feel like you're reading me right. Okay. On all those questions you've asked me, I was like, I even notice I I crossed my arms and I kind of shrunk a little bit whenever I had felt um a little uncomfortable and and down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Yeah, I see that.

SPEAKER_05 24:47

Through the through the not knowing.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Sure.

Letting Not Knowing Be Okay

SPEAKER_02 24:50

And can we allow the not knowing to be okay?

SPEAKER_05 24:53

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Instead of judging it, could we get curious with it?

SPEAKER_05 24:58

Hmm. Being okay with the not knowing to lead to discovery.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

That's it.

SPEAKER_05 25:04

To know.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

That's it.

SPEAKER_05 25:06

Because it's not because I I feel whenever it's yeah, when that feeling comes up of like being uncomfortable or being like, oh man, I feel lonely. It immediately goes towards, well, I feel lonely. So I should do whatever I can to not feel that.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:23

And I don't sit in the I feel lonely, why do I feel lonely? And bring it back to if it's I feel lonely, I know, I know I'm somehow leading to that discovery of you used a word self.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

The intrapersonal. Intrapersonal.

SPEAKER_05 25:41

Yeah. And right now to your to what we said earlier, it's just a blank wall.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

With maybe a few scribbles up there of very vague, yeah. Keeping with your scribbles, I think that those scribbles are probably they've just been they've gone unnoticed. And they're vague, perhaps because they are not explored. Huh. And the light being shown on the blank wall might actually be the theme that helps us understand those vague scribbles.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Digger good.

SPEAKER_05 26:17

I yeah, that is so that's a beautiful picture. Cause I I I would say, like, I think for all of all people, but I'll I'll speak for myself. Like, I would say, like, I I have I I know some of the intrapersonal self-worth or like some of those things, I know who I am in some manner.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 26:39

I have known.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 26:41

And the scribbles have, I don't know if they've eroded or what, like they're there to your point. I haven't I haven't really explored them to enlarge in them or turn the scribbles into a sharpie. Yes. For for to keep going with these metaphors. Like if it's confident or you know, whatever other characteristic trait, I I know that I know some of those things. Yeah, yeah. They're just they just haven't been explored. And that's why whenever you said, are you good at your job? I think I I do know that I am good.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 27:16

But the natural natural reaction is here's why I'm good. It's because this the data and the numbers and the statistics. Or here's why I'm good because I've helped this many people. Or I or I drive a nice car, you know, like that kind of stuff. It's like that's the first reaction, and that's so Did you say uh It's externalizing. Externalizing, yeah. Or extra is it's not extra personal. Intrapersonal, and then yeah, it's just externalizing. Enter, yeah. Enter, enter. Okay. But that that's my first reaction. But at the end of the day, I do I do know I'm good at it.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 27:49

And I think, man, I wonder to reverse it to the other side of what we keep coming back to about like the relationship side of it. I wonder what I know about myself. Because I believe I believe I'm not a good guy, I think in some retrospects, but I know I am.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 28:09

Like I I know that I'm loving and respectful. Yes. And and caring and kind. Right. But they're just scribbles on the wall. And I haven't, I don't, I don't explore much. Right. Because I'm I think it's I think I'm too busy just feel lonely, boom, do this. Feel not wanted or abandoned or whatever, do this, you know. But I know. Huh. You do.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Interesting. You do. That's why I was saying I don't want to go global. Yeah. Because I don't think it's global, because that feels overwhelming. Sure. And that's when you were like, I don't think I'm a good guy. And that's when you did shrink down and close up physically. Yeah. But now I see you, you're like taking up all this wonderful space in the room that you're due. Because it's not a global statement. It's a, and I don't, I don't want this to come across like it, you like if you feel lonely, you need to sit and really like meditate on the loneliness. Sure, sure. Like take a like hours to discover. No, it's like I'm lonely. Where am I in this? I'm kind of missing. I love interaction. Cool. Like interaction, why? Because I'd really love to be with somebody else. Right on. I can feel that you're a social creature. And so it's like, yeah, I just I want inner, I just would love to be with another wonderful human. So now I can take my wonderful self, not to overplay this or to overhype it, but truly, I believe that I'm a good person. And I'm gonna go hang with somebody else who I believe is a good person. And it's like we're gonna be really great together. And I don't want to, I'm not taking anything from you because I'm not asking something from you that I don't already have.

SPEAKER_05 29:57

Yeah, and I'm not asking I feel like in relationships past I've asked people to parent me essentially. Because I'm I don't know if I'd say I'm reckless, but I'm I just am so swayed by these feelings that come up if it's lonely or not wanted or whatever. And yeah, the other person's had to feel stress from having to parent me in in some ways.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Perhaps, but their stress is for them to figure out, right? Right. And I don't need to read your mind or to determine if this is too much for you. I'm gonna ask you for what I need. And if you can give that to me, great. If you can't, then I'm gonna figure out what to do.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

But the thing that I want to throw out to you, if I may, is that this is your emotions are

Emotions As Your Dashboard

SPEAKER_02 30:39

a dashboard. Okay. I don't want you to duct tape your dashboard because I would kind of say that that it there's been a little duct tape on your dashboard in that, you know, bing, there's a light. Oh, there's a bing. Okay, go, let's go, let's go. What do I need? Okay, oh, low tires. Great. I'm gonna go air up all of my tires. And it's like, no, I'm over-airing my tires. When it's like bing, I have a low tire. It's like, great, let's go look at the tires. Which one's low? Gosh dang, dude. Yeah. It's my left rear tire. Okay, how low is it? Do I need to do I need to check it for? And I'm not saying like, I don't want this to be something where we stop down and we overanalyze things, but it's more so it's an awareness of things.

SPEAKER_05 31:22

I like that word a lot. Also, sidebar. I didn't wake up today and my left rear tire was flat. Uh no way. Was low, was, was low tire. I like I like the word awareness.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

Of just or noticing it. That's it. Or considering it. That's it. Those words have just been kind of going through my head. One, I think in my relationship with Jesus, like I just want to consider him and I want to be aware of him in my day-to-day actions. If it's this this setting right here or the barista I talk to, like that. But within myself, when the light comes on, I just take it into consideration, be aware of it. And the dude, your metaphor, King. Um, I the the thought of or what you'd said about like, oh, now I'm over-airing all my tires because the light came on. Right. And I and I would even maybe something God's been speaking to me recently is the the scripture where Paul talks about you go from drinking milk to to eating meat, and there's this like maturity. Whenever you're 16 and you get the low-air tire, yeah, that's what you do just because you don't know what you don't know. Right. But in my head, relating it to that scripture is a very immature way that I've been living.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 32:32

I would say it feels like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Perhaps. As long as immature is it is not a judgment, it's an observation. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:41

It's it's it's it's a it's an observation that it feels like, oh man, to relate it to the scripture. That feels like the I feels like I've been like kind of just drinking milk in some areas of my life, and and the maturity is coming. And I think even just this podcast is and being here with you right now, it's such a God thing for me. It just everything I'll probably listen to this podcast 500 times, but like it feels like everything we've talked about, I have new lenses on now looking at it from this conflict that I came in. Yes, feeling of being an attention whore.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 33:14

I feel like I have new lenses on right now. And like that dashboard metaphor, I love the the thought of just being aware of it.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

I don't feel like I've done that. I here's the problem. I don't think most of us do. I think we judge it and think it's bad that our tires are low. And it's like, sometimes tires are low. Oh, I was in attention whore there. Okay. Observe it. What was I doing? Do I need to apologize? Do I need to go make something right? But instead, what we do is we move through things so fast because we just want the feeling to go away. And I don't know where I am, but I know I hurt you. I can tell. I can tell. Now you're leaning back, and now it's this, and now okay, okay, I've got to get, I've got to make just make it stop, make it go away. And it's like, wait, because keeping with the tire metaphor, I may air up all my tires the exact same amount. And guess what? My tire is still low. Yeah. I didn't air it up the way I need to. Now I've got three that are overfilled and one that's still underfilled. It's like, wait, I need to slow down. I need to look at where I am in this. And I need to ask myself, what is it that's going on? I just need to bring awareness to me. Because once I bring awareness to me, then I know what I need. Then can I go get it? And if you can't give it to me, okay. Does that make me bad that you won't? No, that's about you. You can't give it to me right now. Okay, then could I get it over here? Oh, you can give it to me and I trust you as a source. Great. Thank you. It's like going around and like you're hungry at 10 o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

And you're like, oh man, you know, everything's closed, but I really wanted, you know, really wanted this. Like, I really wanted a burger. I didn't want pizza. And you're like, well, all right. Do I have a gluten allergy? No, I do. So pizza at any time is a big fat no go. Okay, so let's stick with that. It's like, okay, well, the pizza doesn't work. So does the pizza place have wings? And are they gluten-free? And can I I know that I'm hungry. I know that I have certain things that I have to be aware of. When I was younger, I would have just said, screw it. I'll take the pizza and I'll take the you know, the repercautions that come with it. Later. Yeah, that's later. Yeah. Sweet. Pizza. Dang. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:40

I am I am I I don't have a gluten allergy, but that metaphor just resonates in ways with me where it's like, oh yeah, I'll eat this and then later I'll I'll wake up feeling miserable or I'll wake up feeling this and that. But that's later. And I can get past that even whenever it comes. You know, that that'll fade too. Even though that the the repercautions and the consequences are not good and and should have been avoided, but I just was so in the moment wanting pizza. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Dang man. Yeah. I think the critical nature, and I don't want to critical, I think the important nature of what we're talking about is that when we bring awareness to us, we are less likely to be deceived, tricked, misunderstood by ourselves because we get in a hurry. We're trying to do everything we want to like, we're trying to make it stop. But if we stop and say, wait, what am I trying to make stop? Wow, a really legit feeling. I don't want to feel lonely. Yeah. That's legit. Yeah. Okay, well, what do I do with that? Do I go get attention or do I go connect? Connecting has a lasting consequence as opposed to a I want to say critical impact, but a short-term gain that then later turns out right. And then I don't think I'm a good guy. And it's like, yeah, you are. You just turn left when you should have turned right.

Grace Repair And Changing Direction

SPEAKER_05 37:09

Wow. You just turn left when you should have turned right. Man, I'm even feeling myself getting a little emotional with that of like I think grace, grace for myself that that can lead and grace from God, but like grace that grace that can lead lead to change. Yes. And that I miss the exit, I can turn around and go, I get another shot at getting to the exit. Or I struck out, I get another bat.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Right. And when we can take our full self, if we created a an issue back behind us, we can take our full self back there to even make it right there. If we hurt somebody in our missed exit and we accidentally cut somebody off that we just weren't aware of, and it they spun out and are, you know, on the side of the road, and we recognize that we can go go back wholeheartedly and apologize and do what we can to make it right from our side, as opposed to them needing to be okay for my sake. Because now I'm still being self-centered. Yeah. And I'm asking you for something after I just took something from you. It's like, wow. Can I back up from that and say, I am wholeheartedly I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

I hurt you, I own that, and I'm sorry. Where am I in this? I'm apologetic and I understand. You want to talk about repentance, which means changing your mind. I saw my impact. I know where I am now. And I don't want where I am to collide with you in a way that harms you. And if I did it knowingly, then I can sort through that. If I did it unknowingly, then I can sort through that. But I think at the end of the day, the key is wait. Where am I in this? That is beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 39:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

I love the weight. I love the weight acronym. Thank you. Thank you. I can't thank you enough for showing up and like just opening your whole soul to me. That's such a gift. And I don't take it lightly. So thank you.

SPEAKER_05 39:18

No, ma'am. Thank, thank, thank you. I just the atmosphere of this too you've created is very welcoming. And your dialogue and pushing back and pressing and and then asking questions is has been so helpful for me, honestly, in this session or in this in this time. And I'm just grateful to even have I'm grateful to even have the opportunity. So I I really do appreciate you so much.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Thank you. And that's where we'll leave it today. To our guest, thank you. Thank you for your honesty, for your courage, and for your willingness to ask the harder question.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yes, it meant so much. And if something you heard landed for you, sit with

Closing And Book Invitation

SPEAKER_00 40:04

that. Don't rush past it. The wait method only works when you actually stop and ask, where am I in this? If you want to go deeper, Lee's book, Wait, Where Am I in This is available now wherever books are sold and at drleelong.com. It's also available on Audible and Amazon.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

And on Audible, you'll get to hear more of this guy's voice because I was lucky enough to be able to do the narrating.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Absolutely. I always feel like I've spent time visiting with you, Lee, when I listen to the book over again, because it's so rich with information that is helpful in me remaining with me so that I can better interact with those around me. It's that internal experience and that understanding that you talk about in the interview, like the hook on the wall. If you throw your coat against the wall and there's no hook, hey, we need that. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

Thank you. And thank you for listening to Wait. Let's talk about that. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Your path to mental wellness starts right here.