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WAIT, Let's Talk About That with Dr. Lee Long & Lila Pond
Ever feel like you’re losing yourself in your relationships? WAIT, Let’s Talk About That with Dr. Lee Long is a podcast for anyone ready to understand themselves and show up differently. Dr. Lee Long guides you with stories, insights, and reflection prompts so you can create more authentic, connected relationships and bring a healthy “me” to every “we.”
The WAIT, Let's Talk About That with Dr. Lee Long podcast is intended solely for general informational purposes and does not represent the practice of medicine, therapeutic and psychiatric services, nursing, or other professional health care services. It also does not constitute the provision of medical, therapeutic or psychiatric advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is established. The information on this podcast and any materials linked from it are used at the user's own risk. The content provided through this podcast should not be considered a replacement for professional medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It is important that users do not ignore or postpone seeking medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice for any health or mental health condition they might have, and should always consult with their health care professionals regarding such conditions.
WAIT, Let's Talk About That with Dr. Lee Long & Lila Pond
Anonymous: I Would Never Talk to You the Way I Talk to Myself (Part 2 of 2)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In part one of this conversation, we heard how a natural helper can slowly lose herself trying to show up for everyone else. In part two, she goes deeper.
What begins as a check-in on how the WAIT framework has been landing in her real life quickly opens into something more raw. The grief she is still moving through. The high-achieving, high-capacity woman who has been quietly shocked by how little she has to give right now. And the realization that the voice in her head, the one that critiques and judges and tears apart, would never speak to another person the way it speaks to her.
Through it all, one question anchors the conversation. Where am I in this?
You will hear what it looks like to begin finding yourself not at the finish line, but on the course. In the in-between. In the small, quiet moments where the critic starts to lose its grip and you begin to see yourself a little more clearly.
As you listen, notice what comes up for you in your own story, because even if the circumstances are different, the patterns are often the same.
If you have ever extended grace to everyone around you while quietly tearing yourself apart, or found yourself more focused on arriving than on where you actually are right now, this conversation will likely resonate in a very real way.
Get Dr. Lee Long's book WAIT, Where Am I in This here: https://tinyurl.com/mtfm6bh8
The WAIT, Let's Talk About That with Dr. Lee Long podcast is intended solely for general informational purposes and does not represent the practice of medicine, therapeutic and psychiatric services, nursing, or other professional health care services. It also does not constitute the provision of medical, therapeutic or psychiatric advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is established. The information on this podcast and any materials linked from it are used at the user's own risk. The content provided through this podcast should not be considered a replacement for professional medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It is important that users do not ignore or postpone seeking medical, therapeutic, or psychiatric advice for any health or mental health condition they might have, and should always consult with their health care professionals regarding such conditions.
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When Giving Starts To Cost You
SPEAKER_02But I've felt, I guess, more confident or more clear in being able to stop myself when it's getting to that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Of saying, oh my gosh, wait, no. What is that doing? I'm only hurting my own feelings. I'm only exhausting my own energy. This isn't just you finding you. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Wait, Let's Talk About That, a podcast where real people work through real moments live and anonymous. I'm Dr. Lee Long.
SPEAKER_00And I'm Lila Pond. And today we're talking about something that sounds noble until you're living it. And that would be pouring yourself into everyone in front of you all day. And then wondering why there's nothing left over when it's finally your turn.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, giving has a way of disguising itself as goodness, right up until it empties us all the way out. And somewhere in there, I'm fine, becomes the thing we say instead of the thing we are.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's where the wait method comes in. One simple question that creates just enough space to change the whole moment. Where am I in this?
SPEAKER_01Yes, our guest today is staying anonymous. We're going to walk through it together in real time.
SPEAKER_00So before you give the last of yourself away again, or just use the famous coined phrase, I'm fine. Let's talk about that.
The “Wait” Question That Creates Space
SPEAKER_01Just as a reminder, this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. This is not therapy and does not create a counselor-client relationship. You confirm.
SPEAKER_02I confirm.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Thank you for coming back.
SPEAKER_02Of course.
SPEAKER_01We talked about the whole finding yourself in the midst of things. Where am I in this?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01And so I'm curious, what's that been like?
SPEAKER_02It's been awesome. I've actually thought about that phrase a lot.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02I have a lot coming up that is, I don't know if triggering feels too aggressive of a word.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_02But it's going to be testing a lot.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_02And I've had to, I think for me as somebody that is so others focused and such a helper, I've had to ask myself that question a lot.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02Just in terms of weekly rhythm stuff for me.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02And then with a couple events coming up that I mean, they're still very active wounds, I guess. But I think it's a weird paradox of, okay, I've had some time away from this person and everything that happened. Am I all the way good? No. Am I still actively grieving? Yes.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_02But reminding myself that with this specific person, it's the person I dated. But I thought we were headed towards marriage and we're not. So to remind myself it's not my job to make that
Facing A Fresh Breakup Without Fixing
SPEAKER_02person feel better.
SPEAKER_05Oh.
SPEAKER_02Which is a big is hard because I'd rather have everybody else around me be okay. And I forget about myself a lot.
SPEAKER_05Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so just remembering that it's not my job, it's not my responsibility.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What am I really able to offer right now? And then maybe even more raw or harsh, I don't know, is it's not my job, it's not my responsibility, but they also don't deserve for me to give as much as I did previously.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And so can I press into that?
SPEAKER_02You can.
SPEAKER_01From the sounds of it, it still feels like it's others focused.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01Just in what they don't get.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So how practically do you feel like if you're like, hey, I need to phone a friend and I'm that friend right here. But how do you feel practically like could we flip that script? I guess I should say.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. On you mean like what do I deserve or what can I?
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01And rather than I'm not gonna give you this, yes. What I would love to shift with that is is what am I going to give me?
SPEAKER_02Yes. No, I love that.
SPEAKER_01Because, and again, it's not to be selfish.
SPEAKER_02No, I know, and that's my whole thing with this. That's been, I mean, it's been so relevant, truly, but it's been my awkward tension with that.
SPEAKER_01Very well said.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yes. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01So, how could you give a specific example for that awkward tension?
SPEAKER_02Yes. I just think it's my, again, innate makeup and nature of and then thinking of putting myself in the other person's shoes. I'm a highly sensitive person, whatever that acronym is.
SPEAKER_05Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02And I always think about okay, what if the roles were reversed? And what would I want to receive as the other person? But that's not always helpful because it's also assuming the other person is wired the same way I am and what they would want to receive.
SPEAKER_01Because here's the crazy thing. Sorry to interrupt.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, you're fine.
SPEAKER_01Here's the crazy thing is that if we want to talk about selfish, yeah. It's for us to now, now hang with me, everybody. It's for us to try to anticipate other people's needs without ever checking with them. So then I'm giving you what I believe you want, and who's that all based on, right? It's my assumption of you. Right. Because you've heard it's not what I think, it's not what you think. It's what I think you think of me that matters.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Amen to all that. So I think how I've tried to approach this specific situation coming up, what I'm trying to do.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_02Is trying to get to a place where, yes, this person's there, and it's gonna be our first time interacting post our breakup.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_02About two months fresh off of that, but how can I still enjoy this for me?
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_02And it's me trying
Flipping The Script Toward Self-Care
SPEAKER_02to think about okay, there's a lot of people here that I know and love that are easy to be around. And I'm very social and very interactive, and that is a strength of mine. Yeah. And also reminding myself that I deserve to be here and I'm wanted here, regardless if by who? I mean the people throwing it.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Throwing this event.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Can I I'm gonna push here.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_01Are you wanted there by you?
SPEAKER_02Oof. I don't know if I've gone there. Because the grief, grief has been really I'm learning a lot about grief right now. I think asking myself that question, where am I in this right now? Okay. I've been shocked a little bit by how much I cannot do and cannot give that is more typical of my capacity.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think I am a very high capacity person.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so it's been very humbling to realize right now I'm not that typical person that's very high capacity. And it's led to a lot more. I've not been as kind to myself, and I feel like a lot more judgmental, and I wanted to hurry the grief process.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Judgmental of what?
SPEAKER_02Um, gosh, doesn't make me emotional. Um, a lot. I think just my energy levels, body image, um, I think just typically things and people that would fill me up. It's like it doesn't feel like enough.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you know why it doesn't fill you up?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Why it's not enough is because from what I hear you saying, is you're struggling to believe it.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Is that fair?
SPEAKER_02For sure.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02For sure. I think grief is wild. I'm such a high achiever. You know, again, I'm just wanting to be the best for other people. I'm like, gosh, I feel like I just keep dropping the ball.
SPEAKER_01Listen to what you're saying there. The best for who?
SPEAKER_02I know. I don't, I mean, and nobody has articulated that at all. Nobody's even like close friends of mine that know me well, nobody's said, Oh, I don't feel like you're showing up as my friend, or, you know, at work. Like nobody's made a single comment at all. In fact, it's been the opposite. I've actually had a couple of different work things thrown my way that I never thought would happen.
SPEAKER_01In a good way or a bad way?
SPEAKER_02In a great way.
SPEAKER_05Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_02In a great way. Okay. Um, and I feel like in a lot of people just still trusting me and my capacity and my character, which has felt ironic because of how I'm viewing my capacity.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02And again, my faith is so important to me. Yeah. And I think also not questioning the Lord's character. That's never been a struggle in my walk, but just kind of questioning why there's been so much continuous change. And it's felt like I haven't had the margin because it's so much over and over again of I'm like, okay, I'm trying to ask myself, like, where am I in this right now? But it feels like there's no space for that. I don't know if that's just my weekly rhythms. My counselor has brought up with grief that sometimes we have to have the grief work through first and kind of get that through first before we can really address like some other things. And just in my healing journey and self-growth journey, and really trying to chat tackle sin patterns and just things that I not want to be better, like there's a measuring stick, but I just know would bring about more peace for myself and those I interact with.
SPEAKER_01How do you view yourself in the midst of that? Like, how do you view yourself in the midst of that grief?
SPEAKER_02I feel like I'm becoming a totally different person, honestly. Okay. Um, and I kind of thought that process was done. I mean, I'm 30, which sometimes that feels young and sometimes that feels really old.
SPEAKER_06Sure.
SPEAKER_02Cause I'm part of a friend group that 90% are married with kids. And so that's different. And it's, you know, just how you get to hang out with them is bringing the meal for the meal train or the baby shower, the bridal shower. And I I truly love all of that.
SPEAKER_01Right. But but but okay, let's answer the question. Why am I in this?
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_01And what's the answer?
SPEAKER_02The answer is it just feels awkward.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02And I, while I know I'm good at it, do I want to do it all the time? No.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Do I need to probably just call it for some of that and say, gosh, like I'm a public school teacher. I can't really financially afford this.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02Or just it would be better for me right now in this week to not go, like send the gift, but not go.
SPEAKER_01Or do you feel the freedom to do that?
SPEAKER_02I do. I mean, I've wonderful community that I know would never assume.
SPEAKER_01And they won't then and look to look at where how quickly you go to the community. A wonderful community. They'll never fill in the box. Right?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01But what do you think when you do that?
SPEAKER_02I judge myself for that. Like, I should be able to.
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_02Are that selfish?
SPEAKER_01Or why is it selfish?
SPEAKER_02Because, like, what else better do I really have? Like, what else is really filling that time?
Grief Lowers Capacity And Raises Judgment
SPEAKER_02Or what am I else? What else am I really doing with that? Those finances.
SPEAKER_01What's the answer to that?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I mean, it's probably a sweet space to take care of myself better, which I don't do.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Because what it sounds like to me is that this question is really creating, I don't want to call it a crisis, because that's overstating.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, no.
SPEAKER_01But it's creating some unstability, not in your imminent mental health, but but it's like it's creating a little bit of vibration of oh my gosh, that this is a part of my world I've I've really ignored.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01And so now there's this awareness. It's like when you fall asleep on one of your arms.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And it's it it you lose feeling. Totally. When you touch it and you're like, oh my gosh, whose hand is that? You're like, oh, it's mine.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And I think why that's there's that vibration, that tension is I feel like unfortunately for me, I've just had a good amount of people be so selfish that just any like nick or taste of selfishness I don't like because it's made me feel because of other people's hyperindependence and selfishness, it's made me feel very uncared for and unseen. Okay. And I don't want other people to feel that way because of decisions or choices I would make.
SPEAKER_01Okay. But when you felt uncared for or unseen, where were you in the midst of that?
SPEAKER_02Doing way too much for them, and it was still not enough. For them.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Because look at the power that we let go of.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01When we think I'm doing this for you, and it wasn't something that you specifically requested from me, but I think I'm going to get something from that.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02It does. It does. No, for sure. And I think we talked about this last time, but I have a very hard time with people that have the resources and the ability to gauge in more, to change, help, I guess, and they don't.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02And they're just quote unquote fine or red tell people, oh, it's really good. No, no, no, I'm doing really good. You'd be like, no, you're not. And I'm someone that, as a, I don't know, very hyper-sensing person, would be like, okay, no, like, thanks for saying that. And you're doing a really good job trying to convince me that you are, but you're not, you know, and then still them not engaging in those things. That's hard for me to witness. And maybe it's the teacher in me of just kind of I read that on my kids. And so I start engaging them in certain things. And you know, that's great for a classroom setting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But maybe not great for an interpersonal setting.
SPEAKER_01Even in a classroom setting, we used an example last when we when we met about you have a student who's melting down. Yes. And you only have 30% to give.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And that you have to evaluate in a nanosecond. Yes. I only have 30 sec 30 seconds to give. And one of the things that I want to make sure that I round out from that example is that I only have 30% to give is like it's blaring in your ear, or or the stress of what that person or that student is bringing to you is like blaring in your ear.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And it's like, it is as if you are saying to yourself, oh my gosh, this is at a level 10 on the volume. It's like maybe it's an 11, although those who you listen to Spinal or watch Spinal Tap. It's an 11. Yeah. But it's all the way up and it's in my ear. And I don't have the bandwidth
Fear Of “Selfish” After Being Unseen
SPEAKER_01for it. It's like, yes, I don't have the bandwidth for it at a 10 in my ear. I have to put the boom box down and basically say, or that huge speaker down and say, okay, I have 30% to give. I can turn it down just a little bit. Hey, buddy. And this happens in nanoseconds.
SPEAKER_04It does, yes.
SPEAKER_01Right? Because you do, you can't just walk away from a student resolving a meltdown. Yes. And so if you have somebody in your life who's super struggling, you're saying to them, I don't buy it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01They say, no, no, no, I'm good. And you go, yeah, I don't buy it. But what does that do to you?
SPEAKER_02I mean, it only takes more from me. And a phrase I I've used at my, I guess, crisis in that is I feel like a shell. And I am not a shell. And I'm a very safe, approachable person. I've had many people, different types of relationships in my life say, I feel like I could tell you anything. And you'd receive it and you'd want, or you'd want to help me, or you wouldn't judge me in that. And I love that. I love that that's essentially the impression I give off, or they feel that level of comfort, you know, or affection from me, and that's great. But there is a line and there's a whole analogy that I love. I think Renee Brown talked about, or somebody talks about where it's like the man's in the hole and the three people walk by. And I'm the person to climb down in the hole and provide the ladder. And I love that I have that gift mix. That's awesome. But if you're not gonna climb up the ladder, I think it's where I have then kept going too much to try to get somebody up the ladder out of the hole.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02It's just not my job. Because I mean, it couldn't be easier at that point. You have a freaking ladder down the hole, like climb up the ladder.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02So, but if somebody's not gonna do that, and that's something that I had to practice or really do for the first time in my last dating relationship, was to say, yeah, I'm rolling the ladder up and I'm gone because you're literally not, and I'm not a shell of a person, but you are making me because of what you're walking through, which is totally legitimate, but I can't sacrifice myself anymore.
SPEAKER_01That's brilliant. Yes. Because nobody can make us.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01Some people say, and this may be a really gruesome example, but some people say, Well, what if they had a gun to your head? Like you still have a choice. You do. Now, the choices may not be choices you want, no, but you still have a choice.
SPEAKER_02I agree.
SPEAKER_01And again, let me say it loud and clear. It's not a choice you want. And sometimes what we're presented with, it all sucks.
SPEAKER_02It does. No. And I remember in that breakup with him having to get honest with myself to say, you know what, neither of these are gonna feel better. If I stay, it's gonna suck. If we break up, it's gonna suck. It's not about feeling better. It's about honoring myself and for me as a believer, being obedient. And I've asked the Lord time and time
The Ladder Boundary And Choosing Hard Lines
SPEAKER_02again for a sign, and it is clear as day by my mental, emotional, and physical state, and then a crazy other event that okay, I just need to be obedient in this. It's not necessarily about feeling better, but it's about making a decision finally, instead of living in the limbo, instead of worrying so much about the other person, it's just making a decision to say, I draw the line for myself.
SPEAKER_01Good, good. Yes. Because you're right, things can take and take and take. Yes. And that's not for the other person. No. It it really is to feed our desire to be, it's to feed our desire to be needed. And I'm not saying that's where you were.
SPEAKER_02No, no.
SPEAKER_01But I'm saying we have to watch for that, especially with the, as you called it and I like it, the gift mix you have. You know what I'm saying? Because then we start doubting everything.
SPEAKER_02Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_01We start questioning who am I? Yes. Am I lovable?
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Am I attractive?
SPEAKER_04Literally.
SPEAKER_01Am I? And that I think the answer to that has to be in the beginning. Do I believe I am? And that's so difficult. Because this fun event that you have, we're going to be looking at it from the perspective of wait, where am I in this?
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Do I want to be here? Do I want to talk to this person?
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Again, not from a selfish standpoint. No. But because I want to, then you have to. That's selfish. But because I want to, I'm willing to put myself out there. And if you don't want to, okay.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01You know what I'm saying? Like if if I, Lee, want to be there and I, Lee, want to say, you know, hello to people, I, Lee, should feel free to do that. Yes. If you others don't want to say hello to me, or if you others don't want to talk to me, you should feel free to have that experience. And then I then have to step back and say, now this is the kicker. We tend to step back and say, then I'm not wanted.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01Which is a very global statement.
SPEAKER_03It is, yes.
SPEAKER_01But what's the truth of that moment? I'm not wanted in that moment in that way. I am wanted by me. I want to enjoy my own company. As silly as that sounds.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, and I've had to work on that for a couple of years. But no, like I am the person. I mean, I could have never done this a couple years ago, but I go to a movie by myself, I go to dinner by myself, I'll go and grab a glass of wine by myself. Yeah. And I'm okay. I'm totally okay. A couple years ago, I could have never done that. And even I had a girl ask me who was recently divorced, my same age last week. She was like, How are you able to be here by yourself? I was like, oof. I mean, three years ago, no. We now can.
SPEAKER_01Why what shifted?
SPEAKER_02I think I realized that I could like myself more than I thought. And I think through a lot of work, I finally, and it's still, there's still messy, unsmoothed out, sanded down sides of this.
SPEAKER_04Of course, all of us, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That I finally saw myself the way the Lord had created me. And I had kind of some pretty deep negative core beliefs about myself that I decided to really engage in.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And hash out through an art intensive, which is probably the bravest thing I've ever done that I'm really proud of.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Somebody asked me a couple months ago, what's what's the thing you're the most proud of? And, you know, I'm a college graduate of a private university, have two degrees from there, and I work at one of the best schools in my city. And I'm sure they would assume me to say any of those things. And I said, No, it's my counseling intensive that I did that I had to save up a ton of money for, even reach out to people to help me with that, which is also very humbling. But I would say that because I feel like it was the biggest gift I could give myself to really engage in, fighting against so many deep lies and just, you know, from a neuropsychology standpoint, like so many deep grooves in my brain that I'd run down for years. I thought it was the biggest gift I could give myself. And as somebody that has a desire to be a wife and the mom that I hope to be, it's the biggest gift I could give my future husband and my family is just to see myself rightly unto the Lord. So that way, you know, in front of them, I can say, yeah, nope, it's not perfect. And those things creep up for sure.
SPEAKER_01But I feel is perfect the standard?
SPEAKER_02No, not at all. Oh my gosh. No, no, no, no, no. Sometimes I want to throw the word perfect out the door. I think it's just let's do. Yeah. Honestly, I think it's so dumb.
SPEAKER_01What word would you replace it with?
SPEAKER_02I would say
Worthiness Starts With What You Believe
SPEAKER_02reconciled.
SPEAKER_01I love that.
SPEAKER_02I would say reconciled.
SPEAKER_01I love that.
SPEAKER_02Reconciled to the woman that the Lord designed me to be. That is in her flesh trying to live in accordance to what he's called me to in every area of my life. Stumbling along the way for sure.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_02But knowing that what John 10 10 says, that he came to give life and give life abundantly. And I want to engage in that and I want to do that trusting him every step of the way.
SPEAKER_01I think that is right.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_01I think that when we understand whose image we're made in, when we understand the value of who we are, when we understand the gifts that we've truly been given, to overlook that, to cast it aside is like being given a diamond in the rough. The diamond needs still to be buffed out. For sure. We all do. Because it's that reconciliation process to use your word.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I would have said completion or completing. Reconciliation, I like that better.
SPEAKER_04Thank you.
SPEAKER_01It's that process of being formed.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01There's nothing in that that makes us bad.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01Therefore, the judgment that we walk through when we say, is my body good enough? It's like, well, do I love what I've been given?
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Now, is there a space for us to say, yeah, I would feel more comfortable if I were to go through this, or if I were to have a bigger bicep? Or, okay, but why do I want a bigger bicep? Exactly. Because I want somebody else to comment. Yes. Or is it truly, now this is going to sound a little strange. Is it truly for my own enjoyment?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I would, I think it's an amazing thing.
SPEAKER_01Meaning it's a functional piece of like, no, I want to be able to lift things when something needs to be moved. I don't want to have to struggle, right? And and it's something to observe as healthy.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Not earning attraction from others. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02Oh, it totally does.
SPEAKER_01And that's a place that I think, you know, as you go about your event, that it's I belong. I am worthy. Why? Because my values, my relationship with my God, my values say that I'm worthy.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01I believe that I'm worthy. See, we miss that step. We take what our values from your standpoint, you have this beautiful, strong relationship with your Lord. And we take for granted or we overlook ourselves. We fail to see, wait, where am I in that? Yeah. We go straight from our values, straight to others, like that.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And it has to come back to us and say, wait, do I believe that I'm worthy? Okay. If my bicep isn't as big as I wish it were, and why do I wish it were? Oh, because I want it to attract people to me. Therefore, I'm trying to get the environment to do something that and look, is that holistically bad and wrong?
SPEAKER_05No.
SPEAKER_01But where am I in that? Right. And can I be honest with myself that I'm really pulling for that bicep because I want to be pleasing? Again, remember, it's not what I think, it's not what you think. It's what I think you think about me. Right. And I know that takes, I'm not saying it's taking you, but it does take a long time to think through. Wait, I think you think then what I think you think of me.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Right? Because it is this mixy topsy turvy type thing.
SPEAKER_02And it's funny, when I think about other people, I don't go through that whole thing with them. Like I just take them in, and I, for me, once you're my people, you're my people. So I basically will love almost everything that you do.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02Unless it's just glaringly morally wrong. Right. Or I feel like not in accordance to who I feel like you are. I mean, I will very rarely call anything out in someone because I just love people. I'm like, oh my gosh, I think everything you do is awesome.
SPEAKER_01But is that loving people?
SPEAKER_02I mean, not all the time, no. It's not. It's not. But I realized through something early on in my counseling process was how positively and graciously I talked with other people. And then my counselors, one of the first times I like broke down in counseling, she was like, I hear you talk about other people that have done some really bad things to you, by the way, very graciously with a lot of forgiveness. And you always
The Inner Critic And Finding Your Voice
SPEAKER_02talked about positive things about them first. But she's like, if I had a guess, your inner voice about yourself is pretty negative. And I just, it hit me like a freight train. Yeah. And I just started to think, I was like, Wait, you know what is? It's really loud and it's really negative. And I do not talk about myself when I talk about other people at all. Like I think people would be shocked, beyond belief, to hear what my inner voice would say about myself versus how I talked about them. And in some cases, it should be like radically reversed because some people have been horrible.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02But I I don't know. That's again as a believer. I would say it's the Holy Spirit, because I guess that it's reversed that way.
SPEAKER_01But let me ask you something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Where are you in that positive talk towards someone who has been harmful to you?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Okay, let's let's look for her. Because this is super important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're saying that I talk to myself like trash.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Maybe not all the time.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no. It's gotten better for sure. I would imagine.
SPEAKER_01But before you saw it, it's like, wait a minute. Why do I talk to myself in a way that I won't talk to other people?
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01So where am I in pumping you up when I'm tearing me down?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01So where am I?
SPEAKER_02Yes. I think I've always said it's felt quote unquote easier to fix and criticize myself and judge myself than really be honest to other people about what has been hurtful or harmful in their actions or words because I've wanted something so bad. I've not been honest enough with myself to say, I just don't like that person. They're not a good fit for me. They don't bring out the best in me. Whether that's a friendship, a dating situation, a professional thing.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think it's felt, even though I can ream myself to bits and pieces, like, oh no, I want to do this somebody else. But then why am I doing that to me though? That doesn't make any sense. So like I'm worthy of being ripped to shreds. Come on. But they're not. And like not that I don't like to play that game, but it's well, but let's leave them off and let's stay on you.
SPEAKER_01Am I really worthy of that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, absolutely not.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01So where are you in that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It just became my default. Right. It's really hard to change that.
SPEAKER_01So you know what I hear you saying, Thie? Is you're beginning to find you.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01You're beginning to see. Wait a minute, why won't I ream you? But I'll ream me. Yes. And you're the one who warranted the reaming. But I will ream myself when I didn't necessarily warrant a ream.
SPEAKER_02I know. And I don't know really what that comes from. But I've felt, I guess, more confident or more clear in being able to stop myself when it's getting to that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Of saying, oh my gosh, wait, no. What is that doing? I'm only hurting my own feelings. I'm only exhausting my own energy. This isn't doing it.
SPEAKER_01That's you finding you.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02It's just not doing anything.
SPEAKER_01And it's certainly not productive.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01Because at the end of it, do you feel better?
SPEAKER_02Do you feel no, not at all? It's like just a weird routine you go through. It feels comfortable. I mean, analogy I always love in that is you've driven the same way to work for eight years, and somebody tells you, oh, if you turn left, by the way, up here you'll save three minutes, but you don't because you do what you know.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02Versus logically turn left, save three minutes. Like, great. Now you can not stress barking your car or take a sip of coffee before you walk in. Like, that's awesome. But you don't do it because it's it's a weird lie that your brain believes. Oh, no, no, no. Like keep doing this. That's what you're comfortable in.
SPEAKER_01And I would submit that we lose ourselves in those themes, meaning, do I want comfort or do I want three minutes?
SPEAKER_02Totally.
SPEAKER_01Because for some people, they would say, no, no, I'll give three minutes for the comfort of the same. But there's others who would say, Do I deserve those three minutes? Can I take those three minutes?
SPEAKER_05Right. Right.
SPEAKER_01Is that okay for me to do that? Yes. It's like we need permission. But if once we start to see ourselves, once you begin to see yourself, what happens is you start thinking, wait a minute, that's not okay to talk to myself that way. Right. If I won't talk to you that way, why will I talk to me that way? Yes. You're discovering you.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Once you start discovering, wait a minute, wait, where am I? I don't think I deserve for me to talk to me that way. Wait, I think I need to tell you, hey, that kind of hurt my feelings.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01I kind of feel overlooked.
SPEAKER_02Totally. Oh yeah. Or I mean, again, in my breakup that I went through two months ago, it's like, there's no way I make it a couple weeks more of this. There's no way. And an old version of me would have endured it to the bitter end of sacrificing a lot of myself physically, mentally, probably ending up on medication. Like honestly. So I remember having to be honest with myself and honest with the guy I was dating. And I had to say, like, no, I will not make it anymore. And I am not gonna put myself through this just for the sake of putting myself through it. Say, oh yeah, like I made it. Why?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's no metal at the end of that response. There's not.
SPEAKER_02So I'm like, what's what am I doing? Like, nope.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And just thinking back to I read something the other day that talked about how somebody said, I'm so glad the Bible doesn't hide people's failures and people's struggles. I'm really glad it's so open about that. And that it's truly so radical and such a miracle, the Lord still used them. I was like, gosh, like I so feel that and I so relate to that.
SPEAKER_01Because it's not about perfection.
SPEAKER_02Not at all. It's all about just, I mean, really, it's cheesy, but like the journey. I mean, whether it was graduating college or, you know, my master's degree or just different things in my life, when I think about those actual days, those things happened, were they the best? No. Like there were so many better, more sweet, more formative things leading up to that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Than actually getting that. And when I think about Jesus and his life on earth, and I know the chosen is like an interpretation, but I think it does such a good job of just illustrating like so many of the in-between moments for him in his three years of ministry here on earth. That conversation or that thing, like like, well, like the Mars, that's so much more relatable or formative than those like key markers of you know, the gospels that we know of things that he did, which are great. But I think it's what makes him such a relational and personal God is like, is those things and is those in-betweens and those conversations. And I think about that for myself and my own journey of self-discovery and healing. Like it really has been those more surprising, small idiosyncrasies, like different things that have been way more formative than like actually arriving at, you know.
SPEAKER_01You're reminding me of I've run a few
Mile By Mile Presence Instead Of The Finish Line
SPEAKER_01marathons.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01And my first marathon, I ran it because I'd run a bunch of half marathons. So I ran it in two halves. Thought, oh, I can do this. I've done a bunch of halves. So the I got to the halfway mark. I thought, wait, I need to, I gotta do this again. And I just kept thinking, get to the finish line.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Get to the finish line. The good is coming at the finish line.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Let me just tell you, when I got to that finish line, I was so mad.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Because when the person handed me the medal, and it my first marathon was the New York marathon.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's that one of the majors. It's a big deal. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so I get there, I looked, I'm like, this is all I get for all of that that I just went through. Yes. Because where was I? I wasn't on the course.
SPEAKER_02No. I was at the finish line. Totally.
SPEAKER_01My second marathon I ran was in Missoula, Montana. Real tiny town.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That I believe they filmed a river runs through it in that town.
SPEAKER_02Oh my. Gorgeous.
SPEAKER_01The course was amazing. It was a point-to-point. I get out and I said to my coach, who is still my coach, um, 15, 16 years later, I said to him, I said, we're gonna take this a mile at a time. And the start gun goes off. And I said, I'm gonna be present for everything.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01I looked at mile one and I said, All right, mile one, here we come. Uh-huh. In my head, I was saying this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I'm running along. I get to the mile two marker, and I was like, Thank you, mile one. Can't wait to see what you have for me, mile two.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01By the time I got to the finish line, it was the emotional experience everybody said it would have been. Because I knew where I was on that course at all times. And that's what you're talking about. Yes, it is my opinion. It is that place of us knowing where we are in the moment. In the Bible, James says, consider it pure joy when you encounter trials of all kinds. Okay. And people say, well, that's for after the trial. I believe it's during. I agree. Now, I don't think that that means we need to become masochistic.
SPEAKER_02Positive pennies.
SPEAKER_01Where everything that's painful we love.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_01I think it's a place of us looking for where am I in this, making sure that I know that I'm rooted and grounded.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01That I understand where it is the next step that I'm gonna take.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01So when you go to this event that you have coming up, that it is I'm not here to make everybody else feel good. I am here to enjoy what has been set forth before me to enjoy.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Now, through my enjoyment, others hopefully will enjoy what I offer, what I have to give. But I'm not doing this because I think you need X, Y, and R. Not selfishly.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01Self-care.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01I am excited for you.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Because I hear the transformation where the critic is being silenced, where you are becoming more present with you. And the enjoyment, the deep sense of enjoyment you want to offer others that you're beginning to offer it to you.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01And as you begin to enjoy you, because when I was thinking about this, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm excited. I think she's so awesome.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I think yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I was thinking, and I think I'm awesome. And I think we get to be awesome together.
SPEAKER_02Together, yes.
SPEAKER_01No, that's not an intended to be an arrogant story.
SPEAKER_02No, no.
SPEAKER_01It's intended to say, I enjoy being in my own head.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I enjoy hearing from you.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And we get to enjoy being together. And that's, I believe, how we were created and intended.
SPEAKER_02I totally agree. I mean, I think about John the Baptist and Jesus. I think that was their whole relationship. I mean, I think John knew, and he said it very clearly in the book of John, I am not the Messiah. I'm not at all. He knew he had a purpose. He knew he was a vessel. But he was like, nope, it's my cousin Jesus. Like, it's him. Y'all wait. Like, you think I'm awesome. You know, wait for him. But he didn't, it didn't diminish, diminish. That's exactly what he's doing. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01His ministry didn't diminish him as a person.
SPEAKER_02At all. No. And Jesus didn't do that when he came and baptized him. That didn't happen at all. It was a very equal playing field. And I think that's such a sweet biblical picture for us.
SPEAKER_01Totally.
SPEAKER_02For each other.
SPEAKER_01Love that.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for being here.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, I loved it. Thank you.
Closing Takeaway And One Last Question
SPEAKER_00That's our time for today. Thank you to our guest for the courage to do this out loud, anonymously, but honestly.
SPEAKER_01Yes, if something here landed, sit with the question that started us off. Where am I in this? Not who needs me, not what's left on the list, just where you are. So you can pour from something instead of from empty.
SPEAKER_00This has been Wait. Let's talk about that with Dr. Lee Long.
SPEAKER_01And Lila Pond. Take care of yourself and take care of your people.
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