010 - Overcoming Unforgiveness by Finding God with Jason Pratt

On this week's episode, I talk to Jason Pratt, and he shares his journey of living a truck camper van life and how he incorporates his faith into his outdoor adventures. He discusses his experiences of sharing the gospel with others. Jason also opens up about his valley experience of going through a divorce, the importance of forgiveness. and how his divorce led him to God. In this conversation, Kenzie and Jason discuss facing church hurt, offering advice for those in similar situations, finding Christ in the deepest valleys, and the power of testimony.

Book: Sacred Pathways

Instagram @JTP
YouTube: campingwiththecross

Transcript

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (00:02)
On today's episode of My Valley, His Victory, we have Jason Pratt. Jason is a digital nomad roaming the country in his truck camper with his dog Scarlett. He tries to plant seeds, share the gospel and hand out Bibles every step of the way. After living without Jesus for most of his life, he knows what it's like to live in darkness and feels compelled to help others find the light. Thanks so much for being with us today, Jason.

Jason (00:25)
Well, thanks for having me, Kenzie.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (00:27)
Yes, so I know I gave the listeners your bio, but why don't you just go ahead and share a little bit about yourself?

Jason (00:34)
Okay, so I'm a Navy veteran and I found my way back to the Navy as a civilian after college. I work remotely and handle contract negotiations for the ships that we procure for the fleet. My work became remote when COVID hit the country and I was able to move to Florida and maintain that job back in 2021.

I moved to get a fresh start after my divorce and I wound up finding Jesus down there. So yeah, that's how I came to find the Lord. I lived in Florida for two years and I did a lot of deep sea fishing, scuba, and beach volleyball. I went all in on Jesus and ended up being involved in a Bible study or some church activity every day of the week.

I knew if I didn't fill up my time with Jesus or people who were walking with me, that I wouldn't be laying on a good foundation and would, you know, put the world kind of sway me. So, yeah, after becoming like a leader in Bible studies and telling people that they need to listen to the Lord, I started to feel like a hypocrite because I realized that this crazy voice in my head was telling me to go to the mountains.

I was just making excuses on to why I couldn't do that. Like, you know, I had a boat, I can't use a boat out in the mountains and, you know. But yeah, he just wouldn't let up. So earlier this year, I started, well beginning this year, I made a decision that I was going to do van life. And so I got upgraded my truck to a 250 and got a truck camper. And then...

sold or gave away just about everything. And because you can't fit much when you live in like 50 square feet of space. So yeah, and I started my journey the very end of May last year. And it's been a pretty awesome ride so far.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (02:50)
Yeah. So truck camper van life. You started that in May and you started that this past May or the May before? Okay. And you started your journey in Florida, right?

Jason (03:00)
this past May.

Yes, the Panhandle of Florida. And I took baby steps. I, when I bought it, I had it parked next to my house that I was renting. And so I tested out, living in it for two weeks straight, and I'm like, okay, I can do this. So then I went back into the house, I upgraded the entire electrical system so that it could be something that you don't have to plug into a grid. And...

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (03:06)
Okay.

Jason (03:34)
got Starlink and found out the power requirements that I needed for that so then upgraded all my solar and yeah it was good.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (03:44)
Yeah. So where is the furthest west that you made it? Did you make it all the way to California? Or kind of tell our listeners where you're at in your journey now and kind of where you've been?

Jason (03:54)
So I, well I thought that my plan was to go to Montana. And like for some reason I'd never been to Montana and it's just always been somewhere I wanted to go. So I figured like that's where I was going. So I started planning out all these different state parks there. And because I have a dog, I wanted to do a lot of state parks that allow dogs for hiking and not just, you know, always have to put her in a camper.

So I got to Wyoming and I was about to head to Yellowstone the weekend before 4th of July to meet a church buddy of mine who was in that area. And then of course that week my Navy computer broke on me. And of course the Navy had just changed the network that they're on. So basically you have to get to a Navy base to get it fixed. You can't go to an Air Force base or nothing like that. So, and...

There's not many Navy bases in the middle of Wyoming. And so after doing some research, the nearest one was in Fallon, Nevada, which was 750 miles away. But I had this project I was working on for work and I had to get it out. So I drove to Fallon overnight and got my computer fixed and was able to meet my deadline. But that was God.

because the other thing, I had just sold my boat and I was praying about how to tie that money. I didn't know whether to give it back to the church that I was part of or just put it in a random plate but the other thing, every time I would pick up the Bible, like something about widows would come up. And in February.

A shipmate of mine back from my Navy days had passed away from brain cancer, leaving behind his wife and five kids. And like, I hadn't talked to these people in 16 years. You know, like, we were just Facebook friends. But the celebration of life for him was the following weekend. And it was an hour away from where I got my computer fixed. And

just by chance the bank, like I have two banks and I was getting sick of the one bank and I was switching over to Navy Federal. So I had all the money for my boat deposited into Navy Federal and of course right across the street from where I got my computer fixed was the Navy Federal. So I could get that money out, throw it in a card and just see her.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (06:40)
Wow, that's amazing how God works. And just the attention that you had to know, to pray about it, I think a lot of people, it's just like, as long as I give, it's fine. And definitely that's true, but also be praying. And if you have something unexpected, I think that's always a really awesome chance to get to surprise something different or come up with a different thing to give to. And so...

That's awesome that you were noticing that in your Bible, that kept laying on your heart. And then, wow, that's just amazing how God works and how he set that opportunity right in front of you and kind of just gave you the big moments to notice that too. Like the Navy Federals right here, I'm in this place. It's an hour away. Like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. So was that the furthest west that you made it? Was Nevada or did you get into California?

Jason (07:37)
So from there I went up to California because it got really hot there. And when you don't have anywhere to plug into, you kind of need to get to elevation if it's hot. So I went up into the Sierras and then cut across to the Redwoods. And so it was on the California coast and made it.

continued up the coast all the way up to Thor's Well. And then something else happened and I had to go inland to Eugene to help someone else. So that was the furthest west that I made. I did make it to California. Didn't put on a barge and get to Hawaii yet, so maybe next year.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (08:08)
Okay.

Awesome.

Maybe one day. So I know that you haven't talked about this yet, but I know that you're home now for the holidays, you know, back in Pennsylvania. What are your plans in the future with this truck camper life? Are you planning to continue this lifestyle or is there an end date set in mind? Or, you know, kind of what are you thinking?

Jason (08:47)
So I keep getting this question and like...

God doesn't like to show me what the long-term plan is. And so I'm just gonna keep doing it. So I have a plan that is kind of getting changed right now. My plan was to go back to Florida and kind of get back into serving at the church and maybe teach others how to evangelize down there. But...

I also have a big work project coming up that's in Newport News, Virginia. And, but that would provide me a hotel for like a month there. Since, uh, it's going to be too cold to live in the camper. And right now my camper is down at a friend's farm in Florida. I unloaded the camper in it just in the truck. So there's two options for short term and longterm. I started looking at putting my camper on a barge in.

Seattle and barging up to Alaska.

I'm not going to cross the Canadian border again. I found out what a pain that is, especially, I like to, I believe in the second amendment, especially in bear country. And so, I would prefer to have that with me for hiking up in bear country.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (09:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. It's a long drive, I've done it, up to Alaska. And there is the option to ferry and it just takes a couple of days. And same as driving, it's just, you pay probably a little bit more money, but then it's also, you have the gas money as well. So I think it's kind of a win-win regardless of how you get there. But really is a beautiful drive if you ever get the chance to make it. But I totally feel you on that one, especially being up in bear country.

Jason (10:32)
Right.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (10:46)
I'm just like you in that capacity and would like to be prepared with something other than my bear spray. So we've talked a little bit about your truck life and living in a camper. What are some of the ways, I feel like whenever you do van life or you do RV life, you're usually pretty outdoorsy. So what are some of the things that you like to do out in nature?

Jason (11:13)
So it a lot of hiking A lot of like camping and just cooking outdoors Anytime I'm in an area where there's no fire band, of course, I'm making a fire and cooking over that And then I just picked up a mountain bike when I was in Moab and I was debating on it for a long time and then finally started looking on Facebook marketplace found a good deal

and pulled the trigger and my dog just loves to run next to that mountain bike for like 10 miles non-stop so mountain biking is another good one

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (11:53)
Lil lil Scarlett. I got the opportunity to meet Jason and Scarlett at a Christian Outdoor Collective event in Crested Butte, Colorado. And Scarlett is the sweetest lil pup. She gets long solo with my two pups. And also Jason makes some mean... I don't even know what you call them. I'd call them hobo pies. I don't know what you call them. What do you call them? Mountain pies. So...

Jason (11:55)
There we go.

call them mountain pies, but uh... I'm sure there's synonyms if you look it up in Urban Dictionary.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (12:24)
Yeah, so for those listening who may not know what we're talking about, give them a little bit of insight on what a mountain pie is because they were, the options are endless and they were amazing.

Jason (12:38)
Yeah, so I grew up camping like all of my family vacations were camping and one thing we would always do is my parents had these cast iron Mountain pie makers which the cast is basically shaped to make a grilled cheese And you just butter the bread and put it in there But you have endless options on what you can stick between that bread a lot of times go for pizza

But I also like the dessert ones where I make an apple pie. And then up at Crested Butte, I got really adventurous and put in a, oh, what was it? It was croissant rolls. And croissants made of pumpkin pie filling. And set it in there at a low temperature for a while to thoroughly bake like a pumpkin pie. And yeah, it was.

It was everything I hoped and dreamed it would be.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (13:37)
Yeah, they were awesome. So if you ever go camping with Jason, just know that he's gonna come up with some crazy concoction in his mountain pie maker and it's gonna be good. So give it a try, even if you don't think you're gonna like it. So out of camping and out of mountain biking, out of hiking, do you have a favorite of those or do you just really enjoy all of them equally?

Jason (13:39)
BANG

I'm going to go.

I think I just enjoy all of them equally and I like how Van Life just gives you that, it's like a springboard into those where you don't have to commute to get to awesome areas to do that, like, because you park there. And when I was in Arizona I didn't even try it, but staying close to Saguaro was right on the Arizona mountain bike trail.

So we'd get off work and then we would just go ride through that until the coyote started howling and then it was time to go back.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (14:37)
That's probably a safe bet. So talking about the outdoors, and you touched on Christianity just a little bit, but how do you incorporate the outdoors in your relationship with Christ?

Jason (14:39)
Yes.

So I just finished the book, Sacred Pathways, by I believe Gary Thomas. Let me double check that.

Yes, it is Gary Thomas. So he says that in that book, have you read that book? Okay, it's pretty good. Okay, it's about like nine different ways that people connect with Christ, and it's important to, it's kind of like why we have different churches, different types of, you know, Christianity denominations. This is the word I was looking for, but because people

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (15:18)
No, never heard of it, so I'll add it to my list.

Jason (15:41)
connect with God differently. And so it's important that you recognize that so that you can feel connected to Him. And one of the ways that He gives is the naturalist, or those who like to go outdoors. And so like that is me. I've always just, even before I...

followed Jesus, I would talk to a God when I was like sitting out in my tree stand hunting or you know, just really appreciated the beauty of nature. And then, so another pathway that he lists in there is the activist. And that's like when you talk to others about Jesus. And that's also me. And so what I did is I combined those two.

And so when I'm out and about, I try to connect with people. Because if they're outdoors, they probably like the outdoors, so they might be a naturalist as well. And so I had a lot of conversations with people who were spiritual. And after a couple hours of talking to them on this hike, they were willing to take a Bible from me. And you know.

Took my recommendation, starting at Matthew 5, sermon of an amount, and yeah, got a seed planted.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (17:14)
Yeah, that's awesome. And that's one of the things that I really admire about you is and the time that we spent together is you, I think Shered, you've only been a believer for a few years, is that right?

Jason (17:29)
Yeah, a little over two years now.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (17:32)
Yeah, a little over two years and this guy is on fire for Jesus, guys, and just really incorporates sharing the gospel as much as possible. I was thankful enough to get to see that in real life. I loved what you had us do on the hike where you had us do a scavenger hunt. I am one who, I remember I told Jason, I was like, I'm going to be the one who's going to find my person because I'm the one who—

probably is the most uncomfortable with this. Like I am not good at walking up to strangers and talking about Jesus. I honestly have a hard time talking about Jesus with some people that I know personally. And so anyways, what he had us do, and this is a really, really cool thing for you to do, maybe if you're interested, is he had us write down on a sticky note like something that we felt prompted by the Lord. So like a person in a purple shirt, a person with a yellow plaid shirt, or a...

blue backpack or whatever you want to call it. And it's like, if we found that person or we saw someone wearing that thing, then we were supposed to go up and ask them, how can we pray for them? And of course I was the, I think the only person who found my person and had to go up. Yes, yes, it wasn't on the hike, but it was later. And got to talk to them and.

Jason (18:45)
I found mine later after the ice cream I found mine, but... Right.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (18:57)
ask how I could be praying for them. And so just Jason, such an awesome light of God already. And I think that it's so cool because I know me personally, I've been a believer for four and a half years and I still to this day struggle sharing my faith and I struggle ministering to other people. And so to see that gift in you and to see you just like be such a young believer, but also just like doing the Lord's work was just.

I just really admire you for that because I think a lot of people spend their whole lives trying to follow Christ but never get to the point where they're sharing the gospel with other people. And so I know you mentioned in your bio that you share Bibles with people on your hikes and just talk to people about Jesus as much as possible. And so just want to give you that shout out there and say that that's something that I just really admire about you because not only are you in the outdoors for yourself, but every time you're in the outdoors, you use it as an opportunity to minister to other people.

Jason (19:57)
Thank you. Very sweet of you.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (19:59)
Yeah, I just want to, I mean, I guess, like, you know, takeaway for listeners, how did you, like, how do you feel confident doing that? How do you navigate doing that? And, you know, how do you have the courage, I think, because, you know, I think a lot of things take a lot of courage and, you know, knowing that someone can be like, I don't believe in God, like, you know.

and be rude. You know, I think that's like our biggest fear is that someone's gonna not agree with the same things and that they're gonna be rude to us. So, you know, just kind of maybe share some of your experiences with that and what's the worst thing that's happened maybe as you've shared yours and, you know, what's the best thing? Give us the worst and the best and then we can weigh our pros and cons to see if it's something we wanna try.

Jason (20:26)
Thank you.

Well, so like I was an introvert before finding Jesus. And I still like basically am, unless I'm talking about Jesus, then I'm excited and why I just keep talking. But so after I got saved and I was in a Bible study, I wanted to like, you know, keep leaning in. And so they asked me to lead the next session of the Bible study.

and I'm like, okay, I don't know anything, but, and I forget the scripture, but it's, do not worry about what to say, for at the right time, you will be given the words. And like, I used to, I mean, you can lean on that and pray for Holy Spirit to help you through, and he does. And so like,

I had to pray over people right away after being saved as part of being a leader in this Bible study. So I would lean on that. I started just having these God opportunities out in the wild, away from the church, which kind of put this whole van life evangelism thing into my head. But I was just out pumping gas one day. I was on a work trip.

far away, was exhausted, just wanted to go back to my hotel room and eat. And I stopped for gas. And this guy came up with a gas can. He's like, hey bro, let me get some gas. I'm like, I don't know, man. You shouldn't be spending your money on cigarettes and you might have some money for gas. And then I'm like, I shouldn't be judging him. Like that hit me right there. And so he was kind of talking to me while I'm there.

I just said, okay, so I took his guy's can and gave him some gas. And as I gave it to him, I just said, God bless. And he said, sir, are you a man of God? And I'm like, I try to be. And he goes, well, what's the difference of Jesus and God? And right then, like, I was no longer hungry. I was no longer tired. Like, I was ready to just talk to this guy all day. So we talked for like a half hour.

gave him a Bible, highlighted a bunch of stuff in it for him, and he said he was going to start living for the word, for the Lord, right after that. So, I don't know, then that just, it really opened my eyes that I never thought that I was an evangelist or had this calling, but it was, you know, God just showed up right there. Like, I felt the Holy Spirit come on me and change my mood.

And then, yeah, you just have to surrender to him.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (23:54)
Yeah. Do you have a... Go ahead.

Jason (23:55)
And, well, the other thing is, I always try to like, do out of love. Like, I don't just go up and like, with a megaphone and start preaching to people. Like, I take the time to learn a little bit about them and share a little bit about me and let them know that I do have a heart. And because I have a heart, I want them to make it to heaven with me.

You know?

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (24:27)
Yeah. Do you have anything that's, you know, just been like a horrible, horrible outcome of, you know, sharing the Lord or is it just like, I'm not really interested? Because I think a lot of times we think, you know, we're going to get yelled at and we're going to get, you know, beaten, beaten down about it. But, you know, do you have a do you have a bad experience or has it just been like, no, I'm not interested. Thanks.

Jason (24:50)
I've just gotten like a whatever before and But like that is the absolute worst that's ever happened and like we're not in the persecution period like Like yeah, the world is way different right now, but if you if you're coming from a place of love, they're not gonna Like yeah, you're gonna be fine

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (24:53)
Okay.

Yeah. So do you have a story about an instance where God has really revealed himself to you through the outdoors or is it just a lot of small moments for you?

 Okay so to answer your question, God, you know, God, he's revealed himself many times, but this one time, one of my favorites was in Glacier.

I just wanted to see a moose so bad. And so I prayed for it to see a moose and I prayed for a way to make an impact for him that he would provide the person I'm supposed to talk to. So I was staying at St. Mary's Campground, which is on the east side of Glacier, and I decided to drive over to Two Medicine.

hike that area for moose. And so I hiked all the way back and once behind the  I forget if there's two legs or three legs on that hike but I mean on the way back

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (27:22)
The Grinnell Glacier hike.

Jason (27:25)
No,  that's Many Glacier. You know, so, Many Glacier is north of Two Medicine. Two Medicine's on the east side, but south. But uh, there's, so there's some lakes there. And while hiking back, I got word from people coming up that there's, you know, there's moose up ahead. And I just started talking to a guy.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (27:28)
That's the east side.

Jason (27:54)
And I told him, we asked how far ahead, and he's like, oh, it's an hour ahead. And he's like, I don't know if I want to walk that far. And I'm like, well, look, I prayed that God would send a moose for me to see. So if I had to bet, I bet that we get to see him. So he's like, okay. So I keep talking about my faith with him, and he had just gone through the loss of his wife, and...

wasn't a believer. But so I mean I'm just trying to love on him and and talk about scripture and this moose that I prayed for because I really wanted to see it. And sure enough we get up there and hear the moose had moved, but it's now like 25 yards off the trail. And it's just this huge bull moose, there's a second one behind him, and he's just sitting there eating.

and we're just on the trail, there's nothing between us and the moose. And it was just so magical.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (29:01)
Yeah, I am laughing if you notice my smile over here. I think that, I don't know why this has happened, but this is like the third or fourth story that I've asked this question to a couple of different people that have been on, and it always is revolving around moose or Glacier National Park. So I think that listeners are gonna think that if you wanna experience Jesus, go to Glacier National Park and see moose. I'm laughing just because it's crazy how.

you know, they're different stories completely, but, you know, one guy was like, I, you know, experienced God through the stars at Glacier. And then, you know, someone else was talking about seeing Moose. I think it actually might've been at the Tetons, but it was just, I'm just over here laughing because of that, but that's so, so interesting because you, you got the opportunity to talk to this guy and maybe if you, you know, wouldn't have said, oh, I prayed for Moose and.

that sort of thing. Maybe he wouldn't have gone and maybe you guys wouldn't have gotten to have more conversation because you know it sounded like he wasn't super interested in maybe going further and so I think having that was a very you know godly timing kind of thing of that. Well that's amazing and if you want to experience God I guess go to Glacier and see some of this.

Jason (30:15)
Mm-hmm.

But also get a little Gideon's Bible, put it in your pack, and then when you're sharing the gospel with someone, you can give them that so that they can continue on their walk, because that's one thing that I've struggled with is, you know, I can plant all these seeds, and I trust that someone can water them and whatnot, but like, it's not like if I go all the way and someone gives their heart to Christ, I can't disciple them because we're

going to be going our separate ways, you know. So, if you give them a little Bible or something, then they can pursue them on their own until God puts someone else in their life.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (30:57)
Yeah.

Yeah, I love that piece of advice. Because I think it is so easy, you know, just to have a really good conversation and then have nothing tangible to take away from it. And so I think that's awesome that you do that. So for someone who doesn't get to travel all over the country and I know you're a Florida boy or spend a good bit of time there. I know you're originally I think from Pennsylvania, but do you have any advice or tangible things for

Jason (31:15)
Mm-hmm.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (31:32)
For listeners who may not get to go to these really awesome places and get to experience moose and the mountains or the desert and maybe they live in an urban environment, do you have any advice for them of how they can experience God through nature or through the outdoors without having to go to these grand places?

Jason (31:52)
I mean, so I was, I lived a good bit of time between, um, DC and Baltimore. And I mean, we had, I was, I was blessed there that we had like a community beach. I mean, this wasn't a rich neighborhood or anything, but we just had a community beach there and there were also some like state parks in the area.

and there was also like a federally managed reserve that I could hunt on. And though I never got any deer there, I had a lot of good conversations with the Lord there. And like that was that was at a time where like my marriage was going downhill and I talked to God a lot during that time there. So I mean, no matter where someone is, I feel like

There's opportunities to get outside and just be still with him and talk to him and appreciate the sunset and just be in awe of it.

I mean, it's not gonna be world class like a national park, but it's better than sitting in your... If you connect to God in your house or your apartment, if that works for you, then good. But if you're a naturalist and need the outdoors, then do what you need to do to get outdoors. And if it's winter time...

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (33:36)
Yeah.

Jason (33:38)
I mean, I've been walking my dog out when it was negative 19 degrees last year, so... Just lay her up. Ha ha ha.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (33:47)
Yikes. Yeah, and honestly, you might have less people than at a national park because those have quite a few people these days, but less distractions. If you just go around a little walk around your neighborhood. Awesome.

Jason (34:00)
Yes.

less evangelizing opportunities though, so... depends on what your mission is.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (34:09)
Yes, that is true. Yes. All right. So switching roles, just switching gears a little bit into the title of this podcast, my valley his victory would love for you to share with the listeners about a valley or a season of wilderness that you experienced and kind of what God taught you or maybe even prepared you for in that season.

Jason (34:33)
Yeah, so, I mean, my...my valley was 100% my divorce. Um... Hold on, time out. Do you need me to go upstairs and make Scarlett stop dropping a bone right above my head? Can you hear that?

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (34:49)
It'd be great, but you don't have to.

Jason (34:56)
I think she's done.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (34:58)
For now. It's alright.

Jason (34:59)
Yeah. Sorry. All right. So, um, so my valley was definitely my divorce. And, you know, I, I touched on it briefly. Um, so I, uh, looking back on it, I can see like, I wasn't the perfect husband. And I had, you know, my contributions to that, but, um, I was a little stubborn.

And then I was not living for the Lord and was not doing my role as being the spiritual leader of the household. So I mean, I see that now. In hindsight, it's always 2020. But at that moment, I just like the marriage was just in a tailspin after eight years of trying the happy wife, happy life doctrine.

really working out for me. My ex was basically an alcoholic and wasn't helping with house chores. I was just spending thousands of dollars on stuff to get more likes on Instagram. And then I found out that her best friend at work was a little more than just a best friend. So we did a little bit of counseling and that's when I realized how much of my happiness I'd

try to keep this marriage afloat. And it was just like, what was I doing the last eight years? Like, this is where it was. Like, I did all this work and this is what I got out of it. And so I was, I mean, I was mad at her and her friend. I was pretty mad at myself. And you know, I didn't really have a

true relationship with the Lord, but I was mad at whatever God would let this happen to me in the moment. So that's when I decided to try to start over on life and go to Florida, and that's what I did.

And then once down in Florida, you know, the bitterness and, you know, feelings of waste in the last eight years, those of course followed. And so I was trying a bunch of worldly ways to get over that. And it was just leaving me more and more bitter. So uh.

That's when I finally decided to give church a try. So, I walked in and, well, I picked a church based on Google reviews, which is how I do it when I'm on the road as well. Hasn't steered me wrong at once.

But I walked in and I mean, this was my first time in a evangelical non-denominational church. So and it was small group sign up day. So all the leaders are wearing their black shirts with yellow writing. That's a White House on it. Oh, I got a sweatshirt on right here. Oh yeah. Um, so there's a ton of people wearing these black shirts with yellow writing on it.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (38:27)
Lighthouse fam!

Jason (38:35)
And there's people like on the ground and they got their hands up in the air. And I'm like, what kind of cult did I get myself into? And so as I was leaving and vowed to never return, this little lady had a sign up for a forgiveness group. And I was like, that's exactly what I need in my life. So, okay, God, I'll talk to her. So I got signed up. My second time in the church was the first.

Bible study that following Wednesday and you know after realizing this relationship that the Lord wants and pursuing that, trusting Him enough, I was able to let go of all that baggage that I was holding on to and you know I've reached out to my ex and told her she was forgiven and encouraged her to

to chase after Jesus, because I know that she's got some weight from the divorce as well and we're not meant to be carrying that baggage around.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (39:49)
Yeah, so up until that point before seeing that, you know, let's say little old lady with the sign, was unforgiveness really something that you had, was even on your radar that you were dealing with, or were you just kind of mad at the world? You know, this is something that's happened to me. I don't need to forgive anybody or, you know, is that kind of your first sign of like, man, nail on the head, that's what I need.

Jason (40:21)
So I knew that it was turning me into a kind of a bitter person. And I was kind of stuck in this victim mentality. And also, I couldn't think clearly. It was like a storm in my head. And I really wanted to let go of it all. But I was hurt. I couldn't.

she didn't deserve forgiveness, you know. So it was, and it was eating me. And in that Bible study, I learned that, you know, unforgiveness is like a, it's like a poison arrow. And the longer you leave it in, the more harm it's going to do to your body.

And also the other analogy that they taught was, it's like setting yourself on fire and hoping that the person who wronged you died of smoke inhalation. It's gonna do you a lot worse than what it does them.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (41:28)
Yeah, I, this was, you know, one of the biggest things in my valley that I really had to deal with as well was a lot of unforgiveness. And I loved what you said when we talked the first time you said forgiveness isn't a feeling, it's a decision. And I think that that's 100% true. And I think that, you know, one thing that I really had to realize as a believer is that

I don't really think that we can understand the forgiveness of Christ on ourselves if like we don't forgive other people. And so, you know, I think that that's one thing that I haven't heard enough sermons preached on, but I think a lot of us hold a lot of unforgiveness and a lot of bitterness. And so I think that that's, you know, this is going to be really encouraging to someone. Do you have, you know, I know we talked about

going to that small group and dealing with your unforgiveness. But what would you say, you know, going through all of this and looking back now, and what was the biggest thing that you think God was teaching you or preparing you for in that season of, you know, divorce, being wronged, being betrayed, and let's call it what it is, being betrayed. And you're kind of the spiral that came after that. I know, you know, you wouldn't have called yourself maybe a Christian at that point, but

You know, where, what do you think God taught you through all of that?

Jason (42:54)
Well, so A, I know that I would have never came to Jesus unless I was hurt because I was a big man and I could do life on my own. I didn't need no one. You know, I could provide all my own food through hunting. I was self-sufficient. But, no, it really humbled me.

and showed me how much we need Jesus and how much hurt we can cause ourselves if we're living in a way that we can't.

And one verse in that study that really stood out to me was Matthew 11, 28, about, Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

and

I was so burdened and just tired of carrying all that baggage around. And it's true. It's a much easier walk with him. And that, you know, light burden and easy yoke.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (44:27)
Yeah. So after stepping into that small group, I know you said that was your first time in the church, in a non-denominational church, but kind of take us a little bit through your walk from there and how quickly or not quickly this all played out. And was it, I don't know, just give us a little bit of your story and how this played out and kind of the steps that you took.

Jason (44:51)
Cough

Well, um...

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (44:55)
you know, post-forgiveness.

Jason (44:58)
So actually there's one of my leaders. Well, first off, I did not want to let people know in the church that I was divorced because I didn't want all that judgment on me. So I was just not really opening up about anything and expecting my needs to be met. But after the second week,

My one church leader admitted to having an affair on his life, on his wife. And like, he was my small group leader. And I did not expect this in the church small group.

And so he was like probably three times the size of me. So I didn't have a chance against him, but I thought maybe if I grabbed the chair and swung hard enough that I could, you know, get the payback that his wife deserves or something, I don't know. But I just sat there quietly and I left there and I felt so traumatized.

because it was just, it flooded me, you know? And I couldn't sleep for three days. And so finally I reached out to him because it's a big church and the head pastor doesn't put his number out there because he doesn't wanna be texted and called 300 times a day by everyone. But so the head pastor was the one group leader and then the other guy was the other. And so I had to reach out to the other guy and I'm like, look.

Here's my story. I don't know if I'm in the right place because I got a divorce and so him and he

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (46:50)
And this is exactly what happened to me.

Jason (46:54)
Yeah, so he called me, like as soon as he saw that, and had me come in and meet with him and his wife. And they took me through their story and like the steps that they did to rebuild the trust. And like the key thing was that he had to get a new job right away, because it was with a coworker. And...

when we were going through counseling, my ex was not willing to get a new job and it was also with a coworker. So like that just like reaffirmed my decision. And the fact that they just like stopped everything and met me that evening, just showed me how much love was actually in this church and like it wasn't judgmental hypocrites like I had always thought church people to be.

And so then, like, the next week I actually opened up and told my group my whole story. And, like, there was just so much love there. They're like, well, shoot, I had a divorce 30 years ago. Like, you know, well, I got a daughter who's down there. Maybe you should meet her.

So it was.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (48:17)
That's older people's response always. I know somebody. I got a cousin or a granddaughter.

Jason (48:20)
Yeah.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (48:30)
That's, it's, oh, I've got to find the right words for this. Me and my husband were actually just talking about this, you know, the other night about, you know, the people that kind of really, really set us on fire the most are the people where, you know, we kind of see some of the things that have happened. You know, you see people doing what has been done to you. And I think that,

but that's also just such an opportunity as well. And I love what you did because I think, you know, what you would have done or what you did, gosh, I cannot find my words to say. What you did is just so honorable because instead of, you know, just saying, oh, I'm not gonna go to church and, you know, kind of screw church and this is.

you know, whatever. It's you took the opportunity to go and face it and to be like, Hey, like, I don't agree with this and this really hurt me. And you gave them an opportunity. And I think that, you know, there's so many people that walk away from the church because of certain things like this. And it's like, just ask questions and like be vulnerable. Because I think they don't know that they hurt you if you're, you're also not being vulnerable in sharing.

you know what your situation is and how much trauma maybe there is around that subject. And so I think a lot of times we think, you know, like, poor me, but it's like, no, like, I have this righteous anger inside of me, but I'm going to take it to the right place and I'm going to do the right thing with it instead of turning away from God. Because I think that, you know, there's a lot of people who take something that has happened in the church and be like, oh, I'm mad at God. And it's like, they're people, they're broken.

Jason (50:18)
Yes.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (50:18)
Don't leave God, maybe leave the church, but maybe also have a conversation with the church. So.

Jason (50:24)
If someone plays Beethoven poorly, do you blame Beethoven or do you blame the person who didn't practice enough? Same thing, if someone is representing Christ and does a poor job of it, you don't go back and you blame Christ.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (50:37)
Yes, exactly.

Yeah, it's like this is my favorite one of these I've ever heard to date and I was actually I was a guest on a podcast and it was Pete Rogers who said this to me when I was a guest on a podcast He said if you go to Outback and your steak is cooked wrong, you don't stop eating steak You just maybe stop going to Outback to get your steak You go to you know a different place and where you cook it at home or you know, whatever I was like that is an analogy that I love because we've all had, you know, one of those experiences

Jason (51:12)
Right.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (51:20)
So I want to just ask you, you know, for someone who may be going through a similar valley or dealing with something that, going through a divorce, maybe going through a betrayal, going through, you know, not being a believer, living for the world, choose whichever, you know, piece of this you want to focus on. But you know, what advice would you give to someone that may be in the middle of a very similar situation to where you found yourself a few years ago?

Jason (51:48)
I mean, you're not, it's impossible to see why you're in that valley in that moment. And you just have to take it one step at a time and ask God for the strength to take your next step. And you'll understand that valley after you get back up on that mountain and can look back and appreciate how.

how much you grew out of that. And, you know, like a statue has to go through a lot of pain, chiseling, and heat, and grinding to make, you know, that rock, you can be a comfortable rock, but to become that beautiful, beautiful statue, you'd have to go through a lot of squeezing and pain.

And so, and then it kind of, God showed me why I went through that, because the first time I was leading a group, like after the first week, a guy just reached out to me and was like, hey, I'm going through something, I need help. And I'm like, okay, let's go get burritos. So we went and got burritos, because burritos can fix just about anything. But here is, he,

He was living with his girlfriend. Um, and he caught his girlfriend in a hot tub with another guy. So I was able to relate to that. And I'm like, look, here's, here's how, what I did in that situation. Here's what I wish I would have done. And then here's what the Bible says. And you know, and I met him with love. I didn't judge him.

for living with his girlfriend, he knew that wasn't proper. But after he like really felt better just after talking to me, and then after I got in my truck, that was like the first time I got baptized by the Holy Spirit, and just like had to pull over and process it all. And, I don't know, it's...

I've been able to relate to so many other people who have walked through the same thing. And I don't know, I just like helping people. So to me, it was worth it.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (54:29)
Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the reasons why I love your story so much and, you know, I think that we, you know, we connected at the Christian Outdoors event was, you know, I think we have, we have very similar stories in our deepest valley is what led us to Christ, right? Like we have lived for the world, we have walked and, you know, I call it disobedience, but we didn't, we didn't have anything to be obedient to. Like, you know, I think we do wrong

non-believers to Christianity. And it's like, if they don't believe, then, you know, it doesn't really matter. You know, obviously let's help them believe, but like, you're not going to be able to judge them for what they're doing because they are not living by the same standards we are. But I think that, you know, for me and, you know, and hearing your story again, it's just, if you're in such a deep valley, it's almost like

go run to Christ. Go, you know, go. If that's not where you are and you're hearing this, I can speak for it, Jason can speak for it. We would have never gotten through our deepest valleys without Christ. And so I think finding Christ in our deepest valleys was really the only thing that could have saved us because we, you know, we're living for ourselves, living for the world, doing everything in our own power to muster ourselves up by our own bootstraps. And it's like...

We need God. So that's my, I'm gonna add on to your word of encouragement, but I'm just gonna say like, if you don't know the Lord, that's probably step one, because I know I wouldn't have made it through and I know that you wouldn't, you know, you said you would have probably never been saved had you not gone through this valley. And so that was a great thing that came out of, even if nothing else came out of both, you know, of our stories.

Jason (56:13)
Right. Yeah, I mean, just... And it's in the Word. His yoke is easy and burning is light.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (56:22)
Yeah. So Jason, for those listening who, you know, maybe want to follow along with your with your adventures as a nomad evangelist, where can they find you?

Jason (56:36)
Oh goodness, I was not prepared for this one. I am on the gram at JTP 5123.

And that's about it. I've dabbled with making a YouTube series, but it's just so much time and I'd rather be out in the trails.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (56:48)
All right. That's fun.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm right there with you.

Jason (57:04)
But I might do it for next season.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (57:08)
Yeah, that'd be fun. Well, we're looking forward to watching and tagging along. And I always love reading your stories with scripture and always a good thing to pop up on Instagram because I think sometimes our Instagrams can be filled with different things. And so always love seeing the scripture and seeing just where you're at and how you're evangelizing to the world. So I just wanna thank you so much for being here and for being willing to share your story and being able to be open and vulnerable and be...

willing to help others through your story. I think that, you know, we are, whether we like it or not, we're gifted with the stories that we have and I think that we have the power to use them for God's glory if we choose to. And so I just thank you for honoring that and for, you know, listening to him. And I just, I think about you all the time and I'm praying for you as you are evangelizing to the world and traveling in your truck camper and looking forward to the day our paths cross again.

Jason (58:08)
Same here. Yes, there's a lot of power in our testimony. And it's not ours, it's his. And so it's our job to make disciples of the world. And that is a great tool to do so.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (58:21)
Amen.

Amen. Well, thank you so much for being here and we will see on the other side.

Adios, amigos.

Jason (58:35)
Adios.