014 - The Difference Between Believing and Declaring with Jonny Petrovic

In this week's episode, I talk to Jonny Petrovic where he opens up about his struggles with OCD and doubt, as well as a significant turning point in his faith journey.  In this conversation, Jonny shares his journey of finding healing and salvation through Christ. He recounts a powerful dream that revealed the grip Satan had on his life and the moment he fully surrendered to God. Jonny emphasizes the importance of living out one's faith and the difference between believing and declaring. He also discusses the idolization of romantic relationships and the need for an eternal perspective. Jonny's story serves as a reminder of God's pursuit and love for His creation.

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Mountain Top Experiences

Podcast:
Persecuted Podcast

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Unrelenting Christian

Persecuted Podcast

Hymns:
O Love That Will Not Let Me Go &  I Gave My Life For Thee

Transcript

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (00:01)
On today's episode of My Valley, His Victory, we have Jonathan Petropic, but goes by Johnny. He is 23, born and raised in Colorado by immigrants from ex-Yugoslavia, now modern day Serbia. He was raised in a Christian household, but wrestled with God till the age of 18, when he finally surrendered his life to him. His biggest hobbies and passions are filmmaking, photography, guitar, piano, and everything you can think of doing in the Colorado Rockies as an outdoorsman.

Thanks so much for being with us today, Donnie.

Jonny (00:33)
Thanks for having me.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (00:34)
Yeah, I'm so excited that you're here and would love for you to just share with the listeners a little bit more about yourself.

Jonny (00:41)
that is kind of like the gist of me. I'm not the most interesting person out there. Kind of already covered it out all in that intro. That's kind of basically who I am. I'm a Christian first and foremost. That's probably the thing that makes up who I am is Christ. He's my biggest passion outside of any outdoorsman activities I do, but kind of like photography, filmmaking. I have like a Instagram page where I do more of my photography and a YouTube where I do more of my filmmaking.

And I guess one thing I left out was I'm an electrician full time. So that's kind of my work and all these other things are more of my hobbies. So yeah, that's kind of, kind of covers who I am.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (01:23)
Yeah, share with us a little bit more about your style of photography and filmmaking and what people can see on those pages.

Jonny (01:30)
Sure. So my photography is, it used to be a lot more landscape, but not that long ago, I had a family friend reach out, ask if I could take their Christmas pictures. And so I started taking portraits and people have just been asking me more and more to do that. Like people who know me. So it's kind of morphed into more portraits that are outside in the Rockies. So that's where I live. My filmmaking, it's been,

It's been a little bit more stagnant in the recent years just because of full-time work and school. But I'm growing that to be kind of similar outdoor themes where the purpose of it is to display God's nature and how it glorifies him. I'm working right now on a documentary series with my cousin that we don't have a date on when it's coming out. We're still drafting different scripts. We're taking turns directing different episodes of the documentary series.

That's kind of what those two things look like, at least right now for me is photography is more portraits, a little bit of landscapes and film makings. I kind of post a little more kind of unprofessional videos on my YouTube channel. A lot of them just filmed on my phone because they're more spur of the moment, but I'm working on more on more projects that are soon to come in the future.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (02:51)
Very cool. Excited to see what those end up looking like.

Jonny (02:55)
Thank you, thank you. I don't want to talk too much about them just because I don't want to spoil them because I don't want to promise anything because things might change a little bit on the script.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (02:59)
Yeah, well, and they can. Yeah, I was going to say they always can morph until it's a done deal. Yeah, so you live in Colorado. You said that you're an outdoorsman. Tell us what that means. What are those outdoor hobbies that you do?

Jonny (03:07)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don't want to promise nothing.

Yeah, so kind of everything. I'd say with the exclusion of maybe snowmobiling and outdoor rock climbing, I do a lot more indoor rock climbing. Those are probably the two things that would probably be away from Atlas, but hunting, fishing, hiking, skiing. I'm not a huge skier anymore, but kind of basically anything you can think of outdoors is where I spend most of my time. I was born and raised in Colorado, so I've lived here my entire life.

I literally live on the base of a mountain. So most of my hobbies growing up have always been with my, I have a really big family. So a lot of my relatives, I have a lot of cousins my age, just camping, you know, our youth group. When we go to our church, when we do youth group stuff, it's usually we go hike a mountain and then sing on the top of it. So kind of those things. I think my two biggest hobbies with the outdoors is fishing and backpacking are probably the ones I frequent the most.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (04:14)
Okay. Okay, what kind of fishing? Do you do fly fishing or...?

Jonny (04:19)
I do, normally I just do single pole and I'll just use a lure because I just like being in nature. I don't mind being skunked. It doesn't bother me at all. I just like, you know, my ADHD brain having something to stimulate it while I'm looking at the view. I've been trying to get into fly fishing recently, so that's a work in progress.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (04:34)
Yeah.

Okay, okay, yeah. I'm from the Midwest and my husband is from Alabama, so we're used to, you know, you're used to standard bass fishing. And so being in the West, you gotta transition usually at some point to fly fishing. And so...

Jonny (04:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's a different game I hear a lot more. And you don't get at least personally, I don't, I can't remember the last time I caught a bass, sorry. I usually, we just get, we have so much trout here. Rainbow trout is probably the most common thing you'll catch out here.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (05:04)
Yeah. Yep. Different area, different fish and different fishing styles. So do you have a favorite place that you've been backpacking and a place that you could share with us?

Jonny (05:07)
Oh yeah, seriously.

Yeah, so it's hard because I've been all across Colorado and there's some places like Temple Canyon, which I believe the closest city to that would be Canyon City, which is very like desert-y looking. It's a huge canyon. It's a gorgeous area and that has its own beauties and that's how, and there's like, you know, pools of water you can go and swim and stuff while you're like relaxing from the long hike because you're usually hiking for multiple days.

There's experiences like that. And then there's places like the San Juans where like I'll go and I'll backpack those. And it's like, almost like, especially certain areas like the wet mountains where you're almost like you're in a jungle and it has its own like amazing experience. So I don't have like a one destination. I just, it's just more experiences I have that culminate to like the beauty that is backpacking.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (06:08)
Yeah. Have you been backpacking your whole life or is that something you've just started in recent years?

Jonny (06:15)
So kind of how I even got into outdoorsmanship in the first place was I come from a family of six. I'm number five and I have two older brothers. One of my older brothers is a computer scientist and the other brother is more, he's like an outfitter. Like they're very different personalities and they both had a huge influence on me. So at a younger age, I was a lot more into video games and I still am a nerd, but I grew up like a big nerd with Star Wars and all that stuff. Like I could tell you anything you want about Lord of the Rings or Star Wars.

And I was an indoor person, like a total like introvert. And then my older brother, he, thank the Lord he's a Christian now, but at the age of 18, he kind of ran away from home and lived really deep in the sin. He was like the prodigal son of our family. And when he came back, much later in my life, he started trying to make up for the last time and he gave his life to Christ. It was amazing. And our relationship grew. And from there, he started taking me out backpacking and camping. And that was like around the age of like 15 or 16.

So it was a little later for me, but it wasn't too late.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (07:13)
Okay.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. I love how over time our hobbies evolve and we can at some point figure out which ones are our favorite and which ones we wanna keep around and which ones we're like, eh, you know, I don't think I actually really love that. I was just around the right people and, you know, that sort of thing. So what's the longest backpacking trip that you've been on?

Jonny (07:21)
Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Oh man,

Probably for me, I think the longest one I go on is four days. Four days is probably the longest. I'd like to have gone on the longer ones, but it's just when you have work and school, as you get older, it's like, I'm already trying to take time off to go to church events and other states or baptisms or weddings or church camps and stuff. It's like, I can only take off so much time. So camping, backpacking camping and camping for me are more like there's a holiday, like Labor Day, retreat or Memorial Day are usually my days I go.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (07:51)
For sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, use those long weekends. Yeah, so obviously, this is a Christian podcast. I know you've touched on your faith a little bit already, but would love to know just how these outdoor activities play a role in your relationship with Christ.

Jonny (08:11)
Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, it's something that, you know, I was on a hike with my cousin a month ago. And 

There's something that like you just can't, being born and raised in the Rocky Mountains, especially in Colorado, we have a lot of red rock here. Like me and him, we're just sitting there. We kind of have Bible studies usually on mountaintops. And I was just kind of at this peak, just looking out at these red rocks. And I was like, you know, I said, a normal person who do not, wasn't raised with this, they don't, like they can move to this state and they can see its beauty. But to me, like there's a nostalgia to this. Like I know what that red rock smells like.

I know what it looks like. I know what it feels like. I can, heck, I've probably tasted it before as a kid. Like, I know a hundred, like this to me is like a part of who I am. And I think of Christ when he gives parables, he speaks to people in a way, you know, they're usually, he's usually talking about animals or different things about crops or like agriculture, because that's how a lot of people survived back then. And so he used parables to help people understand the kingdom of heaven through.

through those parables and the Bible talks so much about mountains and how many times we see people retreat to the wilderness to either pray to God or have these Elijah moments or Mount of Transfiguration moments or Mount Sinai moments. For me, the outdoors is a place of especially with mountains at least. I can just...

There's so many times in my life where Christ has used it almost as like an answer to a prayer through some kind of allegory. Whether it was a struggle I was going through and I'm on a hike and I just like, I'm like almost like just sweating out my issues as I'm going to the top, going over obstacles. And I'm having this picture in my mind of this thing I'm trying to give over to Christ. So there's a million ways I could answer that question. I just think Romans one, right? Like,

natural revelation. That's God's natural revelation of who he is. It's the artistry of the artist. It's not polluted by people and you're secluded away from distractions. So for me, it's just like a sanctuary. That's how it really is something that impacts my relationship with Christ or grows it is it's just you're out there. It's me and God and His green cathedral is what I like to call it.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (10:56)
Mm. I love that. I love that so much. Yeah, that's beautiful. I love everything that you just said. And I think that that's true. Like the mountains are used so much in the Bible. Like it's insane. And I think that there's a reason to that. And there's a reason why we feel so much closer to God in nature and in the mountains. So definitely, definitely a fan of everything that you just said. So I know you kind of talked to Brad.

broadly about some of those moments that you've had with God in the outdoors, but do you have a specific story that sticks out in your brain of a time in which God just really revealed himself to you in the outdoors, or a moment that's just forever important to you?

Jonny (11:34)
Yeah. Wow. Okay. So my last backpacking trip is last Labor Day. I was with my mentor and

So we were hiking this gorgeous area. I don't want to, I don't necessarily say where, because the most, one of the most nicest things about it was that there was literally no one there. I'll give you a second. I can tell you after the podcast, but this place is unreal. Probably the most gorgeous place I've ever been in Colorado. And that's saying something. I would consider it like the Yosemite of Colorado. And it's not known, it's not known. So we're hiking. This was a four day trip. And second day.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (11:57)
Hey, that's okay. You can keep it a secret.

Jonny (12:17)
We were, we've hiked, we've probably around 10 miles and we're going from one campsite to the, trying to find another one. This place is surrounded by waterfalls. So we're trying to get to another waterfall. And as we were hiking, you know, he stops and, and I just, I just mentioned to him, I was like, look at like, look at that. There was just a huge cliff. It almost looked like El Capitan in my mind. And we're just looking at it and it's just.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (12:42)
Yeah

Jonny (12:45)
It's so massive. It's one of those beauties, those like mountain faces where you're looking up and we're just, and we're surrounded. It's a huge basin and we're just surrounded by them and we're walking and I'm just like, I don't understand how like, like what is this awe I'm feeling? Why do I feel all, if I'm just star dust particles, where is this like metaphysical attraction to this that is just ethereal and shouldn't exist by any like, you know, why are we so drawn to it?

And he said something to me and he said, you know, I understand how people who live in big cities don't really ever experience and see something come out here that's so massive, so much more bigger than you and makes you feel like an ant. How people can come who don't experience this type of the outdoors, who live in cities, just go there nine to five every single day and just see skyscrapers around them all the time.

and concrete, it's like, I can understand how people don't believe in God. It's like, I can understand how someone can see something like this and not have a connection with the creator. Because when you see something like that and you experience it in that way, especially if you have a relationship with the Lord, like it's not, it's trying to explain color to a blind person. If you don't have the Holy Spirit in you, try and explain like, almost like the enhanced, enhancing effect that nature has with your relationship with the Lord, it's trying to explain almost like color to a blind person.

And later that night, it's a little bit of a two-parter. So that really affected me right there when he said that. It really made me like, it's just something that stood out to me. And then later that night, when we were around the campfire, the fire went out and we were looking at, I've never seen more stars in my life. Like it was almost dizzying. Like I almost felt like they were falling on my head. And it reminded me of something my uncle, my uncle, he's a minister in our church. I used to be a framer.

And then when I worked for him and one time I had, I'd hurt myself after work and I didn't know if I could work the next day. I was having back problems. I thought it was my kidneys. I'm a little bit of a hypochondriac so I was kind of freaking out and I, and I called him and I at, and I told him, was like, look, he could tell I was anxious and he could tell I was worried and he, and he, and he told me, he's like, look, it's not your kidneys. You need to relax. Just like take the day off if you need to heal up. And he told me something. He told me about a verse.

or he didn't, it wasn't exactly a verse, he did allude to one, but the main thing he said, he's like, Johnny, go outside right now. I want you to look up at the sky, look at the stars. And every time I see stars, I think of what he told me. He says, look at those. Look how infinite they are. Look how many there are, a countless number, how beautiful and gorgeous every single one of them is, and innumerable, and God knows every single one of them by name. He says, that God, that God.

that created that, that spoke that into existence. He cares for you and he knows what tomorrow holds. And he's got a complete control of what you are going through right now or what you're feeling. It wasn't like a life or death situation, but it's just something that stuck with me forever. That whenever I look at stars and especially in that moment when I had seen like basically the Milky Way, I always just think of what he told me. I was like, man, like he cares for me, such a big God. He cares for me. What do I have to worry about?

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (16:14)
Wow. Yeah, that's a very special moment. And to even be able to see the stars like that, because I think some people have the illusion, you know, that there aren't that many stars in the sky. You know, like if you're in a big city and you look up, it's like sometimes you can only see, you know, you can probably count them, is what I'm saying. But whenever you get out into those, you know, black spaces or not light polluted spaces, the amount of things that come to life. I mean.

Jonny (16:32)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (16:42)
Holy cannoli, I have an experience like that in, as in Africa and the stars are even brighter along the equator. And so that's where we were and we were out in the middle of nowhere hiking a mountain and you know, say similar like what you were saying, I was like, we could see the Milky Way, we could see, you know, everything. And it was just, that's one of my favorite stories of the night sky. And so I can totally relate to that story and just love that reminder because, you know, when there's only, whenever you can only see 100 stars in the night, it's like.

Jonny (16:55)
Jeez.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (17:12)
Yeah, it's not that many. Like it doesn't seem as grand, you know.

Jonny (17:15)
Yeah, yeah. There's more stars than sky when you're out there. You see more of the stars than you do actually see any black space.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (17:19)
Yeah

Right, right, right. And my next question actually kind of ties into something that you talked about. And so you talked about, you know, people not believing in God that live in cities and how you can understand that they wouldn't believe in God because they haven't seen some of these massive, you know, just life altering moments in the outdoors. But for someone who does live in a city who doesn't have access to the nature that you have.

Jonny (17:42)
Yeah.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (17:49)
you know, what advice would you have for them to connect to God through nature?

Jonny (17:53)
Yeah. So I think it's such a hard question because my personal opinion is kind of the tough love one where it's kind of like, look, that's why I don't live in the city because you can't really experience that kind of a lifestyle. And I mean, if the Lord ever, you know, pushes me to live in the city, I would, but my personal preference is if I ever move, it's, it's not going to be in a bigger city because of the exact problem is I know people have said in your podcast to like different parks that you have in your local area can be nice.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (18:04)
Okay.

Jonny (18:23)
It's kind of a two-parter. The first part is like the beautiful thing about going out in nature, kind of like I was saying earlier, is it almost like enhances, enhances because not only are you taking this time alone with God away from people away from distractions, as you're surrounded by his natural beauty and, and it's just it's magnificent. It's glorious. It's something that like, I can use as many adjectives as like possibly can say, but it's really just something that's awe inspiring. And if you don't have that in your city,

I think my personal suggestion to be able to connect with God and the real crux of why we really go out in the wilderness is kind of like what I was saying was really the important thing is that you take time aside to be alone with God, that you have like a prayer spot. Someone mentioned in your other podcast, the prayer room, that battle room, that one movie, the war room. Having something like that, whether it is a park bench.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (19:15)
So, yep.

Jonny (19:19)
I have one friend from Canada and he says he just, there's this big rock he just goes to. He doesn't go to a big rock and he has, and that's where he laments. That's where he pours out his heart to the Lord, like David did. That's my encouragement to people is if you don't have like that wilderness out there or that wilderness experience, maybe consider moving, but if you can't help it, which not all of us can do that, the important thing about it is finding a time where you're away from everyone.

and you can have time where it is really just between you and God and you can be still and you can hear his voice. Limit distractions. And yeah, park benches and different areas where you're surrounded by some lack of urbanization, if that's even a word. That is helpful too. That helps too. But that's the core of what we experience in nature. It's not just the nature itself. That's like an enhancement of what's really happening.

that alone time with God and that removal of distractions so that you can be fully attentive to what he may be trying to lead you or comfort you or rebuke or admonish or whatever it may be.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (20:28)
Yeah, no, I think that that's, I think that that's good. And I know we talk about that a lot on this podcast is just like getting out away from the distractions. And, you know, I think that really just is truly one of the most important parts. And, you know, probably sound like a broken record at this point, but I don't care because it's true. Like we live in such a fast paced world and such a world full of constant distraction, constant stimulation, constant, you know, just.

Jonny (20:43)
Yeah.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (20:56)
We hate the idea of being bored or having like nothing to do. You know, we always have music playing on our podcasts or watching Netflix or we're out with our friends or we're working or we're doing this. And it's like, when is the last time you literally spent an hour alone in silence? Probably not very recently, if I had to guess. So if you can't do it in nature, find a place to do it regardless.

Jonny (21:17)
Nope. Exactly.

Exactly. I'm into that.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (21:26)
 okay. So switching gears a little bit into the title of this podcast, my valley, his victory. I would love for you to share with the listeners a valley or season of wilderness that you experienced and just what God taught you or prepared you for in that season.

Jonny (21:42)
Awesome. So I, I have like a million. I think we all have a million valleys. That's kind of the human condition here. I could be a recurring guest on this podcast every other week with how many, how many valleys that we've all gone through. I mean God's been faithful through them all. But the one I, I think is obviously most impactful. And I think the one that I know the best that I can, that I've had lots of time to think of over the, over the years is my testimony.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (21:46)
I don't know.

Jonny (22:11)
And so I wanted to share my testimony on how I came to Christ. So I was baptized when I was 18. That's when I consider that I gave my life to Christ. I fully surrendered everything. And I took that step of the public proclamation, being baptized into the death and resurrection of Christ, as Paul says in Romans. But the process getting there wasn't obviously the easiest as it is for all of us. It's a process, right? So.

Let's see, how do I start? So for me, I was raised in a Christian home. My family's background, as Kenzie kind of mentioned in the intro is from ex-Yukoslavia now, modern day Serbia. My faith that I come from is Anabaptist. That's the church and denomination I was baptized into. And one of the biggest markers of the Anabaptist faith is we are non-resistance. We do not believe in taking human life. So my grandfather and a lot of my

great uncles and other family members back in Serbia during post-World War II, during the Soviet occupation of Yugoslavia. Obviously there was drafts that went into the military and because of our faith and we do not believe in taking a human life under any circumstance, we would not bear arms and we wouldn't take guns. So

My family and my ancestry, a lot of people, I come from a heritage of people who are being tortured for Christ. My grandfather at the age of 19, and a little graphic warning for those who, if that's alright with you, can I be a little graphic? Okay. So my grandfather at the age of 19, he was being tortured in prison. They would strap him down and they would stick nails underneath his nails, like metal nails underneath his nails.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (23:51)
Go ahead.

Jonny (24:05)
There's one story my dad told me where they hung him by his hands. They would douse him in cold water and hang him from the ceiling by his hands, chains. Then they would take leather straps, get them wet, and they would just beat him, just beat him senselessly, just slap him. And he, there's a story I remember my grandpa, he says he looked up to heaven and he just said, God, I can't take it anymore. And the pain just went away immediately.

and they were continually beating him and the guards, they just stopped because they're like, well, he's not reacting anymore. I have millions of stories. I actually, going off a little topic, I forgot to mention earlier, I actually have a podcast where I talk about those stories and I interview certain of my family and their stories of what they had gone through. And I'm doing more on reading books about persecution to review on the podcast.

So that's a very big part of my family. And the reason I preface that for my testimony was that's kind of the heritage of Christianity and Christ is very important to our family. It's something we have literally been killed for and tortured for. That's how much it means to us, our faith. So both my parents were born in Serbia and they migrated or immigrated to America. I was born here in Colorado. And so I was raised by very devout Christians.

And 

I always wanted to be a Christian growing up because obviously of that background and of that heritage and how much it meant to me and my family, I believed in God from a young age. So that was kind of the goal I looked for in my life as a young child. Around the age of 11 and a little bit before it would happen somewhat throughout childhood, I started waking up in the middle of the night having these extreme panic attacks and anxiety attacks. I would wake up and my whole body would be almost like tingling.

And it would feel like there was, you could imagine like worms or snakes going through my veins up and down my hands. The room would be started zooming in and out, zooming in and out. Like everything would get really big and small. And I mean, I was a child at this point. Like this is like, I was, I wasn't even a preteen yet. And so my mom, she would have to massage my hands. I would just have to just go to her and she'd wake up the whole night and she would just massage my hands because that's where the biggest pain was. And, uh, we had no idea what it was.

It didn't really seem to be anything physical. My dad just said, you're going through growing sprain, your nerves are growing, whatever that means. But that was something happening from a really young age and it started getting worse and worse at the age of 11. My older sister, she was 14 at the time, she was diagnosed with cancer. They found a cantaloupe sized tumor on her ovary. This is like a 14 year old petite girl. I don't even know how.

something of that scale. You know, my poor sister, I don't even know how that was even inside her, but thank God she's cancer-free now and she has a child and a wonderful husband and everything. So praise the Lord for that. But at that time as a kid, at the time she had that, I don't know what it was. My therapists and psychologists, they thought that maybe it was some trauma, that was traumatic to see my sister bald or going through cancer or whatever. I developed obsessive-compulsive disorder on top of my

extreme anxiety disorder. And these are all diagnoses given to me by both a therapist and a psychiatrist that I was seeing. I started taking medication for them and everything. Basically what would happen, and the premise of OCD for those who don't know, I know it's a cultural thing. A lot of people know what the more basic OCD is, but basically what it is, is you have some anxiety, some fear, irrational or not, and you do compulsions because this fear is

anxiety inside you and what ends up happening is you start doing these irrational compulsions as a way to relieve that anxiety. So whether that's obsessive washing your hands, even just because you have this anxiety of germs or whatever it is, you wash your hands and it's this tick that relieves anxiety. For me, I was just terrified of getting sick, whether it was because of my sister's cancer or whatever it was. There was other things going on in my family. My mom's little sister.

was slowly dying and she passed away from cancer as well as my grandpa within months of each other. My little brother was diagnosed with celiac, which we had no idea what that is. We're Eastern European. We live off of bread. The fact that my little brother had celiac was borderline blasphemy. But there was a lot of weird stuff going on at that time that the doctors think contributed to this. So I had such bad OCD. I used to have.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (28:40)
What am I talking about?

Jonny (28:52)
I started creating all these ticks. I created an entire language in my mind. Like I would look at a clock and numerical, I would attribute feelings to numbers. So if I saw the clock, like right now it's 11 43, one means worried, four means calm, three means tonight. So then I would interpret that and I would, my emotion, it's almost like people are into like astrology. I was like, I would base my, how I would feel that day off of something.

so idiotic, right? But it was whatever, it was something I could do to try clinging onto some kind of, as a young child, to cling onto some kind of comfort when I was constantly anxious. It was so bad, I would pick up every single piece of trash I found in the hallways at school, wash my hands insanely amount, an insane amount. I would only go the right way around everything. And that's where my face started kind of pouring into this.

And remember, my parents didn't teach me this from a young age. I just made these things up. I would go the right way around everything because of the sheep and the goat. In, in, uh, I believe it's math and Matthew where Jesus Christ taught in the parable where he talks about the sheep and the goat, the sheep are on the right and the goats are on the left and the goats are sent to hell and the sheep enter into heaven, right? I wanted to be like the sheep. So I went the right way around everything. I would look seven times across the street before I would cross, uh, before I would cross it, I would touch things a certain amount of times.

Usually that has to do with biblical numbers, like the number of completion being seven, right? I would do all these different things from a really young age with like this extreme anxiety that was like kind of fueling all these like, I need to do these things for comfort. I felt like if I didn't do these things, God would punish me. It was a very like a legalistic framework. I was trying to earn God's, what you call, trying to earn God's favor through these little ticks.

And again, like my parents didn't raise me this way. Like my parents have a good theological understanding of saved alone through grace, through faith and grace. Right? Like they never told me how to earn God's favor or earn my salvation through my works. Like they never taught me that these are things I just made up in my mind to cope with them. And so it was so bad that I was failing every class in school. I was, I got an F in PE. I don't know how the heck you get an F in PE but I still know how I managed to get an F in PE.

And so my, yeah, yeah. And I wasn't like overweight or anything. Like I'm an unshaped person. It was just because of my inability to literally function as a human being. It was a full on disorder. So I had to drop out of school. It was either retake the year or start homeschooling. So in seventh grade, I dropped out of school the second semester and started homeschooling. And so in that moment, like, remember I'm clinging to God. Like,

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (31:11)
That's a new one.

Jonny (31:40)
I'm clinging to God because I have nothing else. I'm still like whatever, struggling and living in sin. I wouldn't say I had completely given my life to Christ yet. I was also very young. I didn't really understand the full meaning of that. So my personal belief is that I wouldn't really have considered myself to be like, to have like the deepest relationship with Christ. I have to fully given my life to him yet. But I wanted that even though I was very young and still had much to learn. I remember I used to like,

Basically 90% of my time I would just read scripture every single night. I would just read my Bible till I fell asleep. Like I would fall asleep 2 AM and every night I just have a Bible on my chest and I'd wake up in the morning and I'm telling you there's nothing like, even though this is a deep valley of my valley of my life, I look back at that time sometimes almost like with almost like,

Like I miss those times. Like those were times where I was devoted to God, even doing things that I knew in the back of my mind weren't right, whether it was like, I would pray like for every meal, I'd pray almost 30 minutes before I eat my meal, just praying for everyone I knew. Like I look back at that time almost with like, almost like, man, how devoted I was to the Lord, how much time I really spent in His word and in prayer, and there was a closeness to God. So those moments were beautiful.

but they were also very painful. I was going crazy, right? Like I couldn't, my mind literally couldn't keep up with the stress of the ever increasing OCD. So I dropped out of school and I started homeschooling and over the years, I just, it slowly faded and it went away and I give all credit to the Lord. I call it a modern day miracle that God, you know, mental disorders like that don't just go away, especially with the extreme version I had. There's a whole bunch of other stuff I'm not even mentioning for the sake of time.

But I was so entrenched in this delusion and in this OCD that I can't say, like I wasn't taking drugs. I stopped taking those cause they weren't helping. It was years later that like, I felt like I was at a point where it was like, I don't have OCD anymore. And I feel like the Lord had healed me from that mental disorder. And that's where, to my own shame, I was probably around 15 or 16 at this time where my OCD was kind of gone.

It would still have its spikes when I had moments of extreme anxiety or problems in my life. And to my own shame, I kind of got to the point where I didn't have OCD anymore. So I went back to public school and I kind of lost my faith a little bit. I still wouldn't have considered myself a Christian at that point, at least to the extent where I hadn't really given my life to Christ. I hadn't really been baptized, which to me is very important. And so I...

I kind of used it as well as excuses like, well, I haven't fully committed to God yet. So maybe I can still try a little bit of the world. I felt like free. Like I felt like the chains of OCD that was like basically controlling my every waking moment. I felt like those chains were free. And so I started kind of going deeper into sin into the world, starting into friendships and relationships that were not pleasing to the Lord that weren't right. And

In that time where I was in high school, I started becoming a little bit more agnostic through like biology class, learning more about evolution. I had known a lot of these arguments before too, and I had been studying apologetics since I was 11 years old and reading the Bible. So I knew the Bible really well. I knew apologetics extremely well. But now I'm like, and I also knew evolution as well too, or atheistic worldview of God not being present in creation.

And so that was a battle and I kind of fell away from pursuing that relationship with the Lord. And I remember basically what ended up happening was I had a very good friend at that time who was suffering and going through a lot of hardship. She had been through a lot of abuse and I was kind of her only friend. And I'm like on this fence between Christianity and just living in the world and sin in high school. And this is now...

the end of junior year, right before senior year. And she really liked me. She, I was the only guy that ever actually treated her with kindness. I wasn't like trying to be in a relationship with her or seek anything sexual or weird like most guys do. I was just being a friend to her because she was hurting. I'd known her since we were really young. And so she kind of clung on to me and she knew my beliefs. She knew that I was trying to become a Christian or that I was on the fence of it and that I didn't believe in sex before marriage.

because it's a biblical teaching. And so she really wanted to push that. Like she really wanted me, if you want to say, bring me to the dark side. She was like into witchcraft and stuff. And she used to tell me that she's like, I'm gonna cast a demon that would make you fall in love with me, like all these things. And I was, you know, it was really hard because it's like, here I have a friend that's really deep, dark place in their life. And I'm trying to shed the light of Christ in their life and spend time with them.

But at the same time, I'm doubting my own faith and not exactly living according to it as I ought to. It was just a, it was a time of confusion. And what ended up happening was, and there's two main things that really happened that really changed the direction of my life. There was one time after school where she was like in a lot of suffering. She was going through a lot of things and I just gave her a hug and I was just trying to be nice. I was like, look, you need a hug because she was like literally bawling and everything. And this is like at school. I was like,

I don't know what to do here. So I gave her a hug and I was trying to like tell her the gospel and how God loves her and stuff. Even though hypocritical it may be because I wasn't following it myself. And she basically in that comfort like didn't let go of me. Like I started out very platonic and normal and then it just came into this thing where she was just holding onto me. And she wanted basically in that moment to, she was telling me, she's like, let's go in my car and let's sleep with each other if you want to put it that way.

And obviously as a guy, she was very pretty person and a good friend. I wanted that on the physical, but on the spiritual, like I knew in the back of my mind that God was real, even though I was using evolution as an excuse to not believe in him. And in that moment, we just stood there for almost an hour. Like she was just like she was seeing the wheels turn on my head of like.

do I or don't I do this? And she was just waiting there for an answer, like patiently. And I tell you like, and I was holding her and this is literally what happened. I don't know how else to explain it. I don't know if you've ever been in like a lazy river, you know, like at theme parks and the water's coming hitting you against you. I just, I felt this conviction from God. It's like this confirmation of who he is in my heart as I'm holding her. And I literally just feel the spirit. Like it felt like I was in a lazy river pulling me away from her.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (38:36)
Yeah.

Jonny (38:50)
Like something was literally pulling me away from like holding her and committing that sin. And I was just looked at her and I said, look, when I come to school tomorrow, you have to be my friend. I've never been anything more than that to you. I've always just treated you as a friend and you haven't respected my beliefs and you've always been, you know, sexually harassing me or stuff like that, like trying to get me asleep with you all this time. And tomorrow I come to school tomorrow, I need you to respect my beliefs and who I'm trying to be as a Christian. And she did. And she said, okay, I understand. And she actually respected that.

And then I left and that moment was kind of a turning point because I felt like, I felt like, okay, like this is God really showing up in a moment where I wasn't even asking him to show up. Like I was actually doing something that about to do something that he didn't want me to do. And even if it started out innocent, I put myself in a position where, where sin could have bound. Anyways, that situation kind of

pushed me in the direction of starting to seek the Lord again. And what ended up happening was I went to, we have a church camp. I went to church camp that year. I was at my brother-in-law's house and I was sleeping in their basement. And as I'm in there, as I'm sleeping in their basement, I'm completely by myself. Everyone else is sleeping on the top floor. I, this is right after a church camp we have every year. And I'm,

I'm sleeping down there and in the middle of the night, sorry, my mind, sorry, I'm gonna pause this for a second. My mind is kinda, my mind, what do you call, I was getting distracted on things like, okay, I'm talking too long, I need to wrap this up. So cut that part out right there. Okay, I'll focus, I'm trying not to ramble on here. Okay, so what ended up happening was later on that summer, I ended up going to a church camp, our church has every single year where every,

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (40:23)
You're good.

No, you're good.

Jonny (40:46)
One from different denominations, from our different churches within our denomination come to this one big camp. It's like over a thousand people. And it's, we rent out a, a university, a campus, and we, uh, we have a week long church camp. And,it was, you know, I'm, I'm here talking to people about Christ, having these conversations, glorifying the Lord. I still have a given my lifetime. And one of my favorite lyrics came to my mind, from a Keith Green song.

And it says, you know, you're so proud of calling yourself a seeker, but why are you searching in the dark? And I'm there Eastern camp. And afterwards, I'm on my way home and I'm at my brother in law's house, I was staying there. And I'm sleeping in the basement. This is like the middle of the night. And I have this dream. I wake up, I wake up, I'm in I'm in bed and the bed is facing the door like, in my mind, this is real life. This is the most realistic dream I've ever had in my life. There's a door.

I wake up in my bed that's facing the door and I look in the door and there's a shadowy figure in the door. And when I say shadowy figure, I mean like, imagine like what Sauron looks like from Lord of the Rings, like a figure that had like a crown, but it's shadowy. Like he's just, it's like a smoke figure where like you can make out the features of the crown and it's a man, but you don't see any distinction in the face. And he's standing in the door when he's looking at me and the air was humid with like evil.

is the only way I can explain it. Like it was like palpable. Like imagine a very humid climate, but instead of like moisture, it's just like this intent to kill. Like this feeling you think prey feels when they're being hunted by predators. I just felt it, I saw him. And remember, this is so realistic. I'm in the same position that I went to sleep in. I wake up, I'm screaming for my brother-in-law's help. Cause he's like, he's upstairs. I'm like yelling, asking, like screaming his name. I run, I jump under the bed next to me.

and like a frenzy of like, this thing wants to kill me. And this figure reaches under, grabs me by my wrist, pulls me out and holds me up to his head, holds me up straight to his face that were like, were he just, just like, you know, manhandling me, just like right, holding me right above him, just face to face staring like into me, even though I couldn't make out facial features, he's staring into me. And I'm like screaming for help. He's standing there staring at me. And then as I look over his shoulder,

the exact same figure standing right behind him, but instead of darkness, it's complete light. And then I wake up and immediately I just, I'm like drenched in sweat. I'm immediately in the same position I was when I woke up from the dream, when the dream started. I fall on my knees and I ask God, I'm like, what does this mean? And immediately the Lord gave me like an understanding of what he was trying to tell me. He says, Satan still has his grip on you. You need to decide who you serve.

me or the world. And I from three days after that experience, for three days, it felt like a man was holding my arm. Like I literally felt for three days after that, like I was walking around 24 seven, like the grip, like someone was squeezing that arm where he was holding me. And after that experience, I just went all in and I just pursued, pursued Christ and man.

Like that whole experience of going from a person who literally couldn't even function and had no hope of anything that was going to happen, like any future in my life to where I was now, like I don't have my OCD anymore. I don't have my anxiety. And then going through the experience of almost like rejecting God after he saved me from something so deep and horrible to now completely committing to him. Like within months I was baptized after that dream and after the experience.

That's kind of the story. That's kind of the story of how I came to know Christ. It was like those deepest, darkest moments of my mental health struggles and my family's issues to now being born again to believe in Christ and being freed from this ailment I had.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (44:59)
Yeah, praise God. Praise God for just healing you. One, just wow, that's such a miracle in and of itself. I know so many people that deal with crippling anxiety and OCD and just for you to be able to walk away from this experience without that is one, just so amazing. Two, I love your story because your valley is what brought you to Christ. I...

Jonny (45:02)
praise the lord.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (45:28)
always have a love for these stories because that's, you know, my story as well is one of my deepest valleys is what brought me to Christ. And so it's like, yes, it was probably one of the worst experiences in my life. But and for you, it sounds like as well, you know, but it's the thing in which changed the trajectory of our whole lives as well. And so it's just it's interesting to me, though, the. The way you speak about. You know,

reading your Bible, living in this Christian home, going to all these things and like still not calling yourself a Christian and you know, I'm sure people will probably argue that point of whether or not you whatever you were saved, you know, or whatever but the point is and you know, I love that you speak like that because I think that so many people that just grew up in a Christian household or who you know read their Bible or who do the things like, you know

Jonny (46:08)
Yeah.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (46:23)
that's at the point they would call themselves a believer, but it's like, not until you literally say like, you are capital L O D, L O R D of my life, you know, it's like, you can do all the things, but that's, that's not necessarily it. And so, you know, for those listening, who's like, well, I don't know, it's probably a Christian before that. Like it's like, yeah, but until you declare that over your life, like that was a monumental.

Jonny (46:32)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (46:50)
time for you because you hadn't done that. You had the information, you had the practices, but you hadn't declared it over your life. And so I just love the way that you speak about that and make that distinction in your story. Yeah.

Jonny (46:51)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, there wasn't a full surrender. I hadn't fully surrendered my life. Like I was still living in sin. You know, Christ says, if you love me, keep my commandments, right? So to me, like that's why I didn't really consider myself a Christian at that point is because A, like, I hadn't taken that step of like the public profession through baptism and I hadn't like, sure, I knew God existed, but so does Satan. You know, that's what James, the book of James says. He says, you know, you believe in God? Good job. So does the demons.

Where is your faith? You know, faith isn't, I believe, faith is an action. Faith is like a, faith is a lifestyle. You read Hebrews 11, it doesn't say they believed God. It says no, they lived a life that was for the Lord. But yeah, I appreciate that. I was kind of thinking as I was saying that, I was like, oh, I wonder what people think because not everyone shares that opinion, but yeah, I agree with you.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (47:40)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, but I think it's important to know, you know, that it is an action. And we even though, you know, we are Christ followers today, we still do, you know, sin and we still do live in some sin, but there's a difference between actively choosing not to sin and against going against something that you know is wrong. And anyways, you know, not to go down that whole tangent of, yeah, whole nother podcast in and of itself, but.

Jonny (48:09)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, no. Yeah, that's a whole nother podcast. Good discussion. Yeah.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (48:27)
still sin every day, probably a thousand times a day, but there's a difference between intentional sin and not really caring. So anyways, so yeah, just thank you so much for sharing that and for sharing your story and walking us through some of those hard times and some of those practical moments and just those key moments and where God really showed up in your life. I think that

The story about you and that girl in the parking lot is interesting. It's not the right word is such a.

testimony of God, you know, working in your life. And you can look back on that moment now and realize that. And you did realize it in the moment, but there's so many things that we can look back and we can see God's hand in when we go back and we look. And just, I love that analogy of the lazy river, like something pulling you back and you're like, no, I know that this is wrong. And, you know, kudos to you for not.

giving into your fleshly desires and for allowing the Holy Spirit to work in your life, even like you said, when you didn't invite him really into that moment. It's interesting how, you know, God protects us even when we don't ask for it. But he truly is pursuing us and he truly does want our relationship with us and truly does want what's best for us. And he gave you an opportunity to decide in that moment and, you know, kudos for you for following his lead. Because I think there's like

Jonny (49:43)
Yeah.

You know.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (49:59)
There's those moments where it's like we know wrong, but then there's moments where we are truly convicted. And I think those are some of the biggest reflections of where we stand with the Lord. It's like, it's one thing to just know something's wrong in your heart. It's another to walk into it, feel the Lord's conviction against it, and then make a decision.

Jonny (50:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, part of one thing I did forget to mention was during that time period of, and this seems to be the most common theme I've noticed on your podcast too, which goes to show what people I think are struggling with most right now in our generation, or at least in this time period, was when I was homeschooled, I was very lonely. I was by myself. You know, I had a church group of friends and stuff like that, but...

Realistically, like all my friends I had known from elementary to where I was and they were very close friends they weren't there anymore and Especially during that age as a young man, like I wanted to be in a relationship Like I idolized that like, you know what I did during it's embarrassing, but I don't mind being vulnerable about it When I was in that time period of being homeschooled every single night I would just I would stay up till 5 a.m. Sometimes just watching rom-coms and romantic anime

Like that's what I got obsessed over just romance because I was so alone. And I idolize this idea of being with a woman, of having a girlfriend or that's all I wanted or a wife. That was like my God. And even after I was homeschooled and I had gotten over that hunch, I still idolized it. And one thing that I was thinking of when I was listening to some of your podcasts recently that I would like to encourage the viewers with is

Something that encouraged me a lot is, especially at least this applies more to young men, when God created Adam, the first thing God gave Adam to do was work. God gave Adam work to do. And then when the time came that the Lord saw that Adam was lonely, he provided him a wife. Adam didn't go around asking for Eve, asking God like tirelessly obsessing over it. God saw a need and he provided it. He saw he was lonely. And

Just because I noticed like relationships and romance seems to be like a very reoccurring theme a lot of people have been talking about and like their struggles with idolizing that romantic relationships. And that moment in that parking lot with that girl, like this was like Satan giving me everything I wanted. At least like, here's a girl that really, really likes me and also wants to have this, you know, wants to do this with me. And I'm like, but in that moment, God showed me something greater and the Holy Spirit.

touched my heart in a way that shows me like, I have something much greater for you. That's, and that's one thing someone told me one time that really changed the way I view relationships. It says, he told me, he said, the love you can experience from Jesus Christ is greater than any love a woman or a man could ever give you. That's a hard thing to hear, especially if you're a lonely single person like me. You know what I'm saying? But when you accept it and you realize like, yeah.

I could go the whole rest of my life and I don't have to be in a relationship and I could be more than just satisfied, overfilled, because that's a love that no human can replicate.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (53:23)
Yep. I love those words of encouragement. Those are so good. So I know that obviously probably the biggest takeaway from this valley was your salvation. But is there anything else kind of main points that we miss that you took away from this valley or kind of the way in which God used this valley in your life?

Jonny (53:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Okay. So I guess, like I said, to my shame, I had, I had pulled away from the Lord after he had miraculously saved me from literally like tortures of OCD, like not being able to function normally, being my own puppet master, not even being able to eat normally. Like God saved me from something so amazing. And I knew that. And I, I pulled away from him and I started living in sin.

yet God and his mercy and all of this still sought after me. Even years after and that parking lot situation and in that dream I had. And I mean, remember I was baptized at 18, I started seeking God at 11. So there was eight years of things that had happened of other experiences just like the ones I shared. Those were just very significant ones I felt like people could relate with. But through all those experiences like

Jonny (55:17)
 So during that whole time, during the whole time of seeking God and then pulling away from after everything he had done for me, God was still pursuing me like he was still this amazing God, right? And that kind of comes back to like nature being someone who loves the outdoors and loves spending time nature and seeing how amazing the intricate detail

Jonny (55:45)
of God's genius, of God's masterpiece, of who he is. The very being that spoke existence into being says let there be and it happened. That God that knows every single star by name, can count every single grain of sand, knows every hair on my head, literally the God of past, present, time, and future who exists outside of space, time, and matter. Like God, that's what we're talking about. Capital G-O-D, this God, and in my worst moments of my life when I was rejecting him the most,

still came down and died for me while I was yet his enemy. And not only died for me, but pursued me. Not even knowing, like God knows is omnipotent, and, or is, omnipotent, he knows what will happen, but just to give me the chance of salvation. Not that, not that I will do this and he will follow me, but I will do this in he, so that he may have the chance to spend eternity with me. And in those moments of me pulling away from God, I have a, I have one of my favorite hymns.

I'm a little old school in my church, we sing hymns. So here's one of my favorite hymns that the words of this really kind of explain, at least in a few verses that, man, how much the Lord loves us and how much this amazing God who is so great and has a plan from beginning to end of our salvation would come down and take time to touch my heart and to work with me and to have patience with me, even though I and my rebellion forsook him.

And the song goes like this.

O joy that seekest me through pain, I cannot close my heart to thee. I trace the rainbow through the rain, And feel the promise is not vain, That mourn shall tearless be. O cross that liftest up my head, I dare not ask to fly from thee. I lay in dust life's glory dead, And from the ground their blossoms red, Life that shall endless be. That song, and then this one too.

I gave my life for thee, my precious blood I shed, that thou might ransom me and quicken from the dead. I gave, I gave my life for thee, what hast thou given for me, my father's house of light, my glory, my glory circled throne. I left for earthly night, for wandering sad and lone. I left, I left it all for thee, what hast thou left for me.

I suffered much for thee, more than my tongue can tell, of bitterest agony to rescue thee from hell. I born, I born at all for thee, what hast thou born for me? And I have brought to thee, down from my throne above, salvation full and free, my pardon and my love. I bring, I bring rich gifts to thee, what hast thou brought to me? So I think back, I'm like,

man, how much the Lord has done for me and how significant he is and how insignificant I am and how he offers his righteousness to me and it's free. Like the pursuit like of God for his creation. It's the greatest love story to ever exist and that's the lesson I hope people can learn from my story and from

your story and other people's story too, that have gone through similar things is that, God is invested in us. Like, if you were the only person on the planet, Christ still would have came and died for you. From the beginning of Adam and Eve to the promise of the Messiah, he literally steps into history, preserves a race of people, the Jews, to preserve.

a line in which he can bring a Messiah through thousands of years and they rebelled against him and they hurt him. But he stayed faithful to them because he's a faithful God and he promised to the coming Messiah and the Messiah comes, lives a life of not a rich life, a poor life, dies on the cross, raises again just to offer you the chance of salvation. One of my favorite sayings from an

from an old minister says, stamp eternity on my eyeballs. This plea to God that like almost like a camera lens, like you have eternity written on the lens wherever you look, we're so earthbound. And man, like I look back at my story and what do I see? I see a story of God coming in and taking a son of his and trying to put him into the story of eternity.

And exactly what you were saying earlier about like how distracted we are and how invested we are in the world, whether it's like all these shows and Netflix and distractions, it's like, God is calling us to an eternal perspective and an eternal purpose. Truth is marching on and we're getting left behind. And that's why I love podcasts like what you're doing right now, is because that's this generation and this time period trying to bring us back to the most important thing of who we are. And it is...

We live for Christ and that helps every situation, even if it's a relationship or whatever it is, it's like ultimately my life is a living sacrifice for God. My favorite Bible verse is, I am crucified with Christ. You know, so many times we come and we lay our burdens at the cross, you know, come to the cross, but don't leave as you were, come to the cross and go up to God and say, crucify me with you. I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I.

but Christ liveth in me and I live my life according to the son of God who gave his life for me. Like, so if I can say one thing, and there's a trillion stories everyone can pull from their testimonies and lessons, it's that God is invested in you. How invested am I into God? And, you know, whether it's my valley or my mountaintop experience.

God is with me through it all. And I look back at the valleys of my life and that's when the Lord was closest with me. Just like that poem, the footprints in the sand, when there was only one trail of footprints, it was Christ who was holding me. So that's one thing I really wanted to share. I thought of another verse, "'A bruised reed shall not break in a smoking flak, "'shall he not quench, "'till he send forth judgment to his victory.'"

God says a bruised read, it's basically saying like, if there's even a little bit of a fire in your heart, like there was in mine, even when I was rejecting God, God won't put that out, He can use that. And He will use that. Don't think you're ever too far gone from God being able to use you, even if you struggled, even if you've fallen away from Him. It's not over until you're dead. Let's just put it that way.

So that's probably one of the bigger things that I learned from my experience.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:03:28)
Wow. I am just in awe at you, Johnny. I don't even have anything to say because I feel like you just like mic dropped the whole thing. And yeah, I mean, gosh, I have nothing to add to that. That was great. And so much, so much packed into that. But just your. Your light and your fire and your passion for the Lord is just

Jonny (1:03:37)
Glory to God, glory to God.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:03:56)
contagious and it is just gosh man they're

It's just awe-inspiring. And I just don't have words. Like I just, I literally have nothing to say other than just you are inspiring and the way in which you talk about Jesus and the way in which you get emotional, like reading a hymn, like that is just the way in which I think that we should be towards God.

And I think that so many of us, and you know, I'll say myself included, and I feel like I'm gonna cry right now, talking about this, we just have, God has become this like.

Like just normal thing. Like I just feel like in a way for a lot of people, like it's lost its glimmer, or you know, the story of Jesus, like dying on the cross. It's like, yeah, we've all heard it a thousand times, but it's like, whether it's the first time or the thousandth time, like it should be the biggest thing that's ever happened in your life. And like, I just love getting to meet people who are just so impacted by Jesus and by the story of Jesus and that are just on a mission like you to share.

what God's done in your life. So I just wanna say thank you so much for sharing and for just all of your words. I know that God is working through your life and I'm just really excited to see what he does with you.

Jonny (1:05:26)
Thank you. Glory. Glory be to the Lord for everything he's done in my life and anything I say truly like you know, when I when I had my OCD, I when I was in high school, I started giving speeches to the health class because my teacher wanted asked me to and by some miracle, my teacher, my health class teacher, she allowed me to implement Christ. So I would tell people because it's an educational class, what it's like living with OCD. And I always implemented Christ into it at the end. She allowed me to do that.

and try not to get emotional again, but like I remember like, I remember afterwards, like a girl coming up to me and telling me like, I can relate with your story and that really helped me. I'm anorexic and bulimic. And I'm like, what? Like, how can you relate to my story? And that's the most beautiful thing is like, God uses our values. What does apostle Paul say? He says, my, he says,

Therefore, rather, I'd rather glory in my infirmities that the, or I'd rather boast in my infirmities that the glory of Christ may rest upon me. Like he looks at the thorn in his flesh and he remembers Christ coming to him and saying, my grace is sufficient for thee. It's like not only does God heal me through my valleys, but he uses them to bless others. And they are stepping stones to being the man of God or the woman of God that I ought to be. It's like, man.

Thank God I've gone through valleys and thank God I, because ultimately they're his, they're not mine. And that's why I love the name of your podcast. I'm kind of upset that I didn't take it. I should have thought of that before. And man, there's one other verse. Do you mind if I share? I don't wanna be going over, sorry. Okay, perfect. It's just what you said. It made me, it reminded me again of.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:06:59)
Yep.

Go ahead. There's no over, you just do you.

Jonny (1:07:21)
A verse I have here, it's, behold, I have a grave in thee upon the palms of my hand. Thy walls are continued before me. So that verse says that God is holding us in his hands. And this is another Psalm. It says, how precious are thy thoughts unto me, O God. How great is the sum of them. If I should count them, they are more in number with the sand than the sand. When I awake, I'm still with thee.

I always tell people, I say, think of someone you love very much, whether it's your mother, your father, a brother, a sister, someone, a friend, your spouse, that you love so dearly. Now, start thinking of compliments or things you could say about them that you love or that you think about them, thoughts you'd have towards them. You can maybe get to 50 if you were to like, actually verbalize them. Maybe 100, maybe 200 if you're an English guy. That's pretty impressive. It says that God's thoughts towards us are more than the sands of the sea.

Like again, just to re-emphasize what I was saying earlier, is God is invested in us. And like you said, we get so used to the rhetoric of Jesus died for me, that it just becomes a story like any other story. And like you said, like, why do I get emotional is because when you spend time contemplating and thinking about those things and you go to nature and you become a more reflective person, which I think happens through meditating on God's word and actually spending time with him and spending time with his people.

being committed to a community and a church, right? Like God uses you and you start seeing the reality of who he is. And if you have a true perspective that God owes you nothing, yet he still gives you everything, then yeah, that kind of gives you a little bit of a reality check here and there. I think part of it too, also, like I said earlier, like I come from a background of people who have literally, like my ancestors and my lineage, which I'm so proud of.

is people who died for Christ and were tortured for Christ. So to me, like this is like, this has always been life or death to me. Like when I got baptized, my church asked me if I was willing to die for Christ. They asked me that. And I made that public profession in front of hundreds of witnesses and said, yes, with the Lord's help, obviously. So, none glory to me. I'm just saying these are the effects of, of being raised in a healthy Christian environment.

that constantly reinstitutes the basics of like, look, tomorrow's not promised. And your podcast title, My Valley, I always tell people they come to Christianity thinking like, and especially you hear a lot of modern day Christian music, it's always about me and what God can do for me and love and God loves me, God loves me. It's like, dude, that's not the right picture of Christianity like he does, but look at the life of the apostles.

You know, people were always like, man, I used to pray and I stopped being a Christian because God didn't answer my prayers or this someone died in my life. It's like to look at the early apostles. They were all tortured to death. Apostle Peter was crucified upside down and his wife was burned at the stake in front of him.

You know, like this is the, sadly, that the world hates us because they hated Christ and we're thankful to live in America where we don't have to endure those persecutions, but Christianity is still the most persecuted religion in the world, all across the world.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:10:39)
Yeah. And I heard a quote recently that was like, if you have, I'm going to butcher it, but something along the lines of like, if you've never been persecuted for your faith, like chances are you may not be like truly living out your faith. Like if you've never received, you know, like any sort of, of pushback or, you know, you've never gotten yelled at on the internet or, you know, no, I know, but.

Jonny (1:10:53)
Yeah

Yeah.

That's some real persecution right there, man. You got the gulags, I was thinking Facebook.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:11:06)
Oh my gosh, I know. But you know what I mean? Just like if you've never, I mean, that's just a really small example, but that's just the idea that comes to mind. But if you've never sacrificed anything or if you've never been persecuted for your faith, then you might wanna see how much your faith is actually living out in your life. But yeah, no, I think that that's so good. And I think that, yeah, just like you were saying, like it-

Jonny (1:11:12)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:11:35)
that we have lost that. And I think it is because we do have that, you know, we don't have that eternal mindset most of the time. We don't. And it's like the apostles didn't care what happened to them here because they knew that this wasn't their forever home. And so I think that's just where I want to land the plane today is just like, if that is not in the way in which you think about your faith, then I would just challenge you to do that. And I know that I'm super excited.

To be following along with you and following along your journey and just really excited to see what you do truly I feel like this has been so many good nuggets have been dropped I feel like we could do probably 10 of these episodes and you would have all the wisdom to drop on us but

Jonny (1:12:19)
Likewise, likewise. I'm really excited to see where you're going to and I've been loving your content and everything and you know Probably one last quote then I guess I can share that really stood out to me and this is a Leonard Ravenhill He's a famous revivalist of the 20th century, you know, because what we're talking about right now is revival, right? We're talking about like this need for a revival and it is happening. I'm seeing this generation being revived But a revival isn't oh a church gets a new preacher and he's such a good, you know, he's so good at expository

you know of what you call explaining the scriptures and everything and super motivational and then all of a sudden everyone starts flocking from the streets to come in. Revival isn't the church grows. Revival is the church realizes what it has allowed to take it away from God and it kills it and it gets rid of it. It destroys what was keeping it away from God. The sackcloth and ashes just like they did in the Old Testament.

and in the New Testament, read revelations, how he talks to the churches and asks them to come back. Like, that's what revival is. And then the beauty of that is when a church gets rid of what's keeping them away from God, realizes it and gets it out of their life, and then pursues Christ again, once in that pure unadulterated way. That's not about, you know, entertainment. It's not about, you know, all these fancy bells and whistles. It's about the simple, pure gospel of who Jesus Christ is, and ultimately living a holy life for him.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:13:46)
Yep.

Jonny (1:13:47)
Then people from the outside see that radical love for who Jesus is and the radical willingness to die for what they believe in. And then people come and then the revival grows. That's how the church grows. It's not nicer stages or nicer guitars or nicer speakers or bigger churches. It's pure relationship with the Lord and a church being called to live its holy life and living it out in the world and being that light.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:14:18)
Absolutely, absolutely. Someone give this man a microphone, he needs to become a pastor.

Jonny (1:14:19)
That's what I thought.

I'm just a simple blue collar worker, man.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:14:28)
I don't know, I think God has some plans for you, but Johnny, this is...

Jonny (1:14:31)
Oh, well, we... I don't even know. Glory to Lord. I don't, you know, it's like, it's like when people sing you a happy birthday, like, what are you supposed to, what are you supposed to do? Thank you. Glory to Lord for anything he's done in my life.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:14:42)
Yeah. Well, this has been an absolute pleasure and I am just so excited for all of the things that you've said. I feel like I need to go back and listen to this and like write down notes. Cause I just feel like you dropped bomb after bomb after bomb on us. But for those listeners who want to follow along with your journey and your podcast and your YouTube channel and all of the things, where can they find you to hear more of all of this goodness?

Jonny (1:15:06)
Okay, well, I will say I'm a little spread out. I have a lot of attention in a lot of places. So I am most frequent on my main page, which is more of my photography and filmmaking page. It's called Puja Studios, P-U-Z-A, and then studios on Instagram. Puja is just a nickname. It's a Serbian nickname my, excuse me, my older brother gave me when I was little. For those who are wondering why I call myself Puja, it's just a inside joke between. What's that?


Jonny (1:16:53)
It's just unrelenting, U-N- and then Christian, the picture's like a sword on it. And then my, what do you call, podcast is called Persecuted Insta. So persecuted underscore Insta, and it's on Spotify is where I post it. I have one episode so far, these episodes take a lot of research and work to do. So it's been a while since I've posted on there.

But if you're interested in listening to the podcast, I interview my great aunt and her sister and they tell me the life story of their father. His name was Andras Domorowski and his life from being born in a time of unrest in the Balkans to how he ended up in America. And he had gone through, I don't wanna spoil it, but he's been through hell on earth. And then that would be my Instagram and then my YouTube channel is just called Puja.

I have a TV series, sorry, I have a, so I'm a little tired. I have a, what do you call a show on there called the Mountain Top Experiences. So if you look up Puza, a lot of Indian stuff usually pops up, but if you look up Puza and then Mountain Top Experiences, you might be able to find my channel through there. So those are basically my main links is just my photography Christian page, and then persecuted, what do you call, podcast. So, yeah.

Kenzie Smith (KenziefromKansas) (1:18:20)
Awesome. Well, thank you so much,  It's been a pleasure.

Jonny (1:18:24)
Thank the Lord in you for having me. I appreciate this opportunity and I look forward to, you know, collaborating more in other future, future endeavors too.