068 - Doubt Welcomed, Questions Answered, Jesus Found with Macy Smith

In this episode Macy Smith shares her vibrant personality and diverse interests, including ministry, martial arts, and motorcycles. Macy discusses her role as an enrollment advisor at Asbury Theological Seminary and her part-time work as a marketplace chaplain, where she provides pastoral care and hears inspiring testimonies. She also shares her passion for the outdoors, particularly climbing, and her involvement with a Christian ministry in national parks, emphasizing how nature has played a significant role in her spiritual growth and connection with God. In this conversation, Macy Smith shares her profound experiences with nature, personal growth, and the journey of forgiveness. She reflects on how nature teaches resilience and endurance, emphasizing the importance of stillness in connecting with God. Macy recounts a pivotal moment in her life where she navigated a wilderness season, leading to spiritual growth and the discovery of true love. She discusses the challenges of forgiveness and the supernatural strength required to let go of past hurts, ultimately finding healing through her relationship with God and supportive community.

Connect with Macy: 

Instagram :  @macyhowl ; marketplace chaplaincy at cureofsouls.life

Transcript

McKenzie Smith (00:02)
On today's episode of My Valley, His Victory, we have Macy Smith. Macy lives in Memphis, Tennessee, where she enjoys the outdoors and climbing with her husband and two-year-old golden doodle, Beta. She's an advisor for Asbury Theological Seminary and works as a marketplace chaplain part-time. Her interests are in ministry, martial arts, and motorcycles. Thanks so much for your notice today, Macy.

Macy Smith (00:23)
you

Yes, thank you so much Mackenzie. I appreciate the opportunity.

McKenzie Smith (00:30)
Yeah,

absolutely. Did you do the triple on purpose? Ministry, martial arts and motorcycles.

Macy Smith (00:36)
Yeah, because it's so much easier.

Yup. It came to me like one day when I had to think about my bio, much like the conversation we had earlier. I was like, what are the three things I love? And then it just bam. And it's on my resume too.

McKenzie Smith (00:51)
Heck yeah, and they all start with an that's funny. Well, Maisie, why don't you go ahead and just share with our listeners a little bit about yourself and who you are.

Macy Smith (00:54)
Yep

Yeah, so outside of what you just said, I'm very much a person that loves a laugh every single day. And so if we ever hang out, if ever meet you in person, just know that I'm really jovial and lighthearted. I'm very much an encourager and most likely I'll introduce God or Jesus sometime in the conversation because it's what I like to try and center my life around in a lot of ways.

and I live in Memphis so I'm so happy because the variety of food that I have in this city makes me elated. Like have a restaurant wish list that I'm just now working on as of yesterday. There's a magazine called Edible Memphis and

McKenzie Smith (01:36)
Yeah.

you

Macy Smith (01:43)
it's just like we have a huge food culture. So I have a lot to be thankful for and I really love my job. This is my office. I try to fill it with, you know, all of my nonsense merch and books that I'm going because I also attend the seminary as a student.

McKenzie Smith (02:00)
Okay.

I love that you are so jovial and lighthearted and just love a good laugh. Everybody needs someone like that in their life. It's yeah, it's such a blessing whenever you come across those kinds of people because sometimes we, we take life a little bit too seriously and we need someone who can make us laugh and smile and those people are super special. So talk to us a little bit about

Macy Smith (02:04)
Hmm

Yes, not to be taken too seriously.

Mm-hmm.

Thanks.

McKenzie Smith (02:27)
Asbury Theological Seminary aim your job as a marketplace chaplain because I know when we talked the first time, I have no idea what that was. So share with our listeners a little bit about what you do professionally.

Macy Smith (02:39)
Yes, so for I'll go into basically what I do full-time full-time and I'm an enrollment advisor So I do a lot of career and academic advising in the graduate world Which also means there's a temptation to be super serious and that is where like I will insert myself and be myself and say hey we're doing this for the Lord and I love that work because I hear a of testimonies whenever people

basically start an application with me, they have to tell me about their testimony, why they came to Jesus. So that's a huge honor for me to be a steward of such amazing stories that, I mean, it comes through every single day. And outside of just connecting and recruiting and talking with others, there's the opportunity to give pastoral care and pray with people. So that's one of the reasons why I wanted to work here because I got

accepted as a student beforehand and received a full scholarship like paid for my entire master's program because you know I asked God I can't afford this can you please help and he said yeah sure you know this is what we're supposed to do so I was like great and then this job opened up and it was perfect so I do that full-time and I love it I go to a lot of college ministries so the reason why I do marketplace chaplaincy part-time is because that's been my unofficial job for six years and

A marketplace chaplain is essentially a chaplain that is in a workspace, like a business or corporate office, rather than in a church setting. So much like a military chaplain will be the person available for all persons of faith to come to them with, you know, a crisis or they got something that's on their heart, maybe a theological question. They just need to talk out with somebody. I'm not a counselor. Let that be known. I don't have a counseling degree.

And I'm happy that I'm not a counselor because I'm the in-between person that will refer you to those resources. So once again, I've just been really honored that in every job that I've had for the past six years, that has been my unofficial job is kind of intervening on behalf of, you know, my employees going through crisis or some leaders that have been mentoring that go through crisis. And now I'm at Asbury because God is

officially equipping me. Like he's really equipping me for the work. And that's why I feel so honored to do that part time. And that's pretty much just wherever anybody needs me, then I show up for the day. And the full-time job is a little bit of that for college ministries. And I also do that for a Christian ministry in the national parks. When I do trip leading, it just seems like pastoral cares. It's needed everywhere.

So that's, I hope that describes what it is though.

McKenzie Smith (05:35)
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I think you walked us through both parts of it. yeah, I remember you whenever you said marketplace chaplain, I was like, I have no idea what that even means. So please talk to me like I'm five and explain it to me. So no, I appreciate it. And that's, it's just so cool that you get to one get to hear people's testimonies all the time, because I feel like

Macy Smith (05:47)
Cool. Cool.

McKenzie Smith (05:57)
those just have to be so encouraging and you just get to hear about the goodness of God and you know, just these life changing stories and you know, I tell people all the time they asked me like, what's my favorite part of this podcast? I'm like, honestly, I get so much encouragement just from like hearing how God's working in other people's lives because I don't get that in my everyday life, you know, and so the fact that you get that I think is super special and it definitely helps, you know, us keep our eyes focused on God whenever we're hearing about the goodness of God all the time. And so

Macy Smith (06:12)
Yes.

yeah.

McKenzie Smith (06:26)
Just encourage anybody if you're not in a place where you're like having these kinds of conversations all the time, try to figure out a way to do it or at least like listen to something that's encouraging you every day because it can be really easy to get stuck in like your situation and God, God doesn't look good in my situation right now but when you're constantly hearing, hearing of those stories, it's, it's easier to, to kind of like have the faith, I guess, if that makes sense. So.

Macy Smith (06:35)
Thanks.

you

Hmm

Yes,

it does and that's such good advice because I feel like there's this wall that we kind of put up with ourselves where we're afraid of somebody else's judgment or you know the shame that might be brought up within ourselves when we bring up these past parts of our lives when in fact it's the most empowering thing we can do. So yeah, you give great advice.

McKenzie Smith (07:10)
Yeah. Yeah.

Well, thank you. So kind of talk to us about your outdoor love. And I know you talked about climbing and the outdoors and you have a dog named Beta. So I'm going to assume that you're a large fan of climbing, but just kind of talk to us about what sets your soul on fire in the outdoors.

Macy Smith (07:19)
Hmm.

Yes.

yes, okay. I love this question so much because I think of this specific moment in my life where I was in Foster Falls, which is in Jasper, Tennessee. It's a really famous climbing spot and backpacking spot that leads to the Firegizzard Trail. And it's very aptly named because the moment I'm thinking of is in the fall and it's like the forest is set on fire with all the colors that you see. And

McKenzie Smith (07:56)
Yeah.

Macy Smith (07:59)
Honestly, my favorite thing is climbing. I can't lie, our dog is named Beta. That was my husband's idea after the climbing term. And I've been doing it for 13 years. My favorite form of climbing is ice climbing. And we have none of that in Memphis, Tennessee. You know, we don't get ice waterfalls. I hope we don't. That would cause a drastic change in climate. But that's my favorite form of climbing. And me and my husband go out and do it.

McKenzie Smith (08:13)
Ooh.

Macy Smith (08:28)
in Arkansas because it's very deceptive when you move to Memphis. And I do talk about the food because people think there's no outdoors here. And that is so incorrect. When I originally moved here, it was for an outdoor company. And so was like, okay, can you at least tell me what I can do outside? Because I'm used to backpacking, being out in East Tennessee. We have the Blue Ridge, have Telico and the O'Coe. We have so much stuff. And Memphis has none of that. We have the Mississippi though. And

Memphis is also known to have some of the best urban planning in the United States. So we have so many city parks scattered all throughout the city. So the way I was able to kind of get my hiking, running and climbing fix was through indoor climbing gyms like High Point or Memphis Rocks climbing gym, which that's the one I recommend everybody come by to stop at.

And we have a park that has a herd of buffalo in it. That's not widely known either. You have to have a really big park to have a whole herd of buffalo in it. And it's called Shelby Farms and it's one of the largest city parks in America. It's bigger than Central Park. It just has the herd of buffalo, I said, tons of trails and outdoor off leash dog park called the Outback.

And that's where God was like, I'm going to take care of you because I know how much you love the outdoors. And at the time, I didn't know God when I needed to move to Memphis, but he was filling me in on all of my needs before I even do it, before I even asked, which was the better part. So I've just been slowly discovering the city and renewed my love of indoor climbing as well through Memphis rocks, because

The community there is unlike anything I've ever seen before. It's the only nonprofit climbing gym that I've known of. There's probably others that are popping up now, but it's a really special place in my heart. I've worked there for a little while and getting to kind of recreate my family there when I moved all the way away to the other side of Tennessee, because there's the state of Tennessee, Chattanooga, and then you have Memphis. It's just, it's six to seven hour drive. It's very different.

McKenzie Smith (10:43)
Yeah.

Macy Smith (10:44)
So yeah, climbing is my favorite and it is possible to climb in Memphis and have an amazing time.

McKenzie Smith (10:52)
Heck yeah, I love it. yeah, those have got to be so different because Chattanooga I feel like is an outdoor Mecca, you know, kind of of the Southeast. And so then to have to pick up and move to Memphis and yeah, that's, that's interesting. But yeah, sometimes your seasons just change and sometimes you just have to adapt your hobbies to what is accessible and it sounds like you have and

Macy Smith (11:13)
Yes.

McKenzie Smith (11:15)
If you ever need to go ice climbing, you probably know where to find that. You go out west somewhere. I was driving to the desert the other day and saw some people ice climbing on this big waterfall like right off the road and I was like, that's nuts. So I know a spot if you come to Utah. I have no experience climbing outside or ice climbing, so I have no idea how to even describe it to you, but I know a place.

Macy Smith (11:20)
Yep.

⁓

Yay! Yeah, any of those.

Understandable.

Understandable.

McKenzie Smith (11:44)
So I know that you. Let me go back. So I know that we connected through Amos from a Christian ministry in the national parks, and so I'd love for you to just share with the listeners a little bit about your involvement with a Christian ministry in the national parks and yeah, just give us give us a little bit about how you got involved in that and kind of what you're doing there.

Macy Smith (11:52)
Hmm

Yeah, okay. So I got started. I went to my first Christian ministry in the National Parks trip. I signed up for it just a couple months after I got baptized, which was four years ago. And so I told myself I need to get in a community of other Christian women because my friends right now are partiers and they're of a lifestyle that I really cannot sustain anymore if I'm going to try to change my life. And

So I prayed about it. Something I think came up on Instagram and it was their women's retreat. So I said, okay, cool. You know, I just started this thing. I'll go meet other women who are Christians and we'll talk about that and see where it goes. And it also just happened to be an outdoors thing. Still don't know if my phone was listening to me or not, or if that really was just an answer, but it was really specific. So the first trip was in Hot Springs, Arkansas.

and it was perfect because Hot Springs is three hours away from Memphis and it's such a short trip. I said yeah that's that's completely affordable. Saved up for it. I went and it just blew my mind that I was introduced to all these other women who also had prior struggles. Some of them grew up in the church, some of them didn't, some of them were like me and had come from

a really traumatic background or who had come from drug abuse or alcohol abuse and getting to have those conversations. And also I gave my testimony because I said, I need help. I'm trying to get out of this lifestyle. It's a struggle. They were all there for me one night. just remember because suicide was something that I had been struggling with for years and I was able to bring that subject up.

with complete strangers in this space. And I know that God was working in that way because that's one, that's a hard topic to talk about with complete strangers, but two, was just, he had worked on my heart through these women too.

talk about it. And knowing that, it brought up other conversations where other women would bring up their stories and then we would just talk about what we had in common, what's worked for us, different prayers that we could use in ways that we could pray for each other. And so I just fell in love with it and I haven't missed, I haven't missed any of your since except for this year, which I just, I hate that I missed this year, but I'm planning to go to the next one that is out in Seattle. So.

Please, please go to that, y'all. It's amazing. And I've just been able to kind of mark my growth as a Christian by going to those trips once a year. And not only that, but I've met other amazing women. I've seen the same friends. And we might only see each other those one times a year, but man, do they feel like my sisters in Christ. They feel like my real family. And we got to enjoy the outdoors on top of that. It's just...

McKenzie Smith (14:36)
Yeah.

Mm.

Macy Smith (15:02)
The outdoors was a great catalyst and that's what ACMNP uses. They use the outdoors as a catalyst to start conversations or really just be outside because when we get stuck in any building in general, this is something I study personally as a marketplace chaplain. When you're indoors and you have, you know, one-on-one talks with somebody in your office,

You're behind a desk and the other person is sitting in a chair across from you. It is so serious and it's so formal. But if you take this talk and you go outside on a park bench, there's nothing above you except the sky and there's, you know, everything. There's so much more fresh air. Your thinking literally changes in your mind and you become much more natural. You are less, there's less of a feeling of a power dynamic in that. And that's something that just

you can't replicate in a building. It's really hard. You'd have to get rid of the ceiling. You'd have to like blow it off the top. You know, that's something that maybe Apple or Amazon can do, but it's not common. So.

McKenzie Smith (16:05)
you

They

need to make glass buildings.

Macy Smith (16:14)
Yeah, yeah. And really like Amazon

knows this is a legitimate thing because there are several like random offices where they'll have remote workers want to stay out, but they'll add like aspects of green spaces or the glass ceilings that you were talking about. So that's why I love what ACMNP does is that they have, they're using a free resource. First of all, you don't gotta pay for that. You don't have to pay to go outside.

McKenzie Smith (16:28)
Yeah.

Macy Smith (16:40)
And when I got introduced to them and I saw Amy, was leading the women's trip. They brought me back and also just told me that God is also in this community of outdoors people because before then in the climbing community in Chattanooga, is, I mean, just like any climbing community, I feel like it's really small and you know the other person or you might see them occasionally in the gym or at the crack. And there's

McKenzie Smith (16:57)
.

Macy Smith (17:10)
really talk about spirituality being nature and it's technically it's it can be a very safe space for people they feel like they can be themselves there. So I was was curious because I hadn't really had anybody come up to me and say you know hey didn't you know about my friend Jesus at the crack or anything like that? I know there's a more natural way to say it but

It was just really comforting to me that God was already there and he's like I already have this healthy place set aside for you and You can be a part of that like you belong somewhere because the lie that I had believed for a while was that I didn't belong where I walked or That I just didn't belong and that's really hurtful and harmful when somebody wants to be themselves so

McKenzie Smith (17:42)
Yeah.

Macy Smith (18:02)
ACMNP helped me out a lot with that. eventually I just got into volunteering, doing devotionals, giving a message with them. And then I got to be their first guinea pig for testing out, like being one of their trip leaders just as a volunteer. And God has continued to open my eyes in those areas. So yeah, it's healed my heart in so many ways, though, to find friends like that and like Amos.

McKenzie Smith (18:27)
you

Macy Smith (18:32)
I call him my other unofficial brother because his last name is also Smith. And it's, it's, I just learned so much from him and watching him lead others and outdoors was very different from what I was doing prior, which was also outdoor guiding. So Christian setting or just having my heart with Jesus and guiding and not having my heart with Jesus and guiding, vast difference. Very important. And

McKenzie Smith (18:39)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Macy Smith (19:01)
changed my life, still does. So that's how I got involved with them.

McKenzie Smith (19:05)
Yeah, very cool. Thank you for sharing. And I love that you said that, you know, going to that event, even, you know, take the leadership piece out of it. Take, take all of that. Like it's been able to mark your journey with, with Christ. ⁓ and you, you know, it's, it's probably like a good, a good check-in point every year and a good like, I remember where I was. Like, it's just a good pinpoint of like, this is where I was last year. This is where I am this year. You know, so on and so forth. So that's really cool.

Macy Smith (19:19)
Bye bye.

yeah.

Mm-hmm.

McKenzie Smith (19:34)
So I would love for you to elaborate and I've shared about it a little bit, but just kind of how being in the outdoors plays a role in your relationship with Christ.

Macy Smith (19:43)
Go on.

There are many ways in which I'll be going on a trail run or just to hike out in one of the bluffs around here reminds me that I'm actually not alone because when I went to when I went to go trail running or hiking or even solo backpacking out of Chattanooga I wasn't aware of the presence of God and that wasn't a regular practice for me and I just remember going on my first trail run

after I had been baptized, was like living by myself. I wasn't married yet. And you know, I was really getting out of the idea that I'm not alone because God is with me. And I went on my first trail run and it was vastly different. The awareness I had that the Lord was there to protect me. also, I know that sounds so funny, but to run with me, it was so comforting because one,

being a woman alone outside is not always the safest thing. I have been outside plenty of times that I've had my own amount of encounters that are very dangerous. But I mean, this trail run was just so different. So now whenever I go outside, it is my time that I get to talk anything out with God, anything in any way, in any voice, in any volume. And that's

McKenzie Smith (21:08)
you

Macy Smith (21:10)
I mean that so seriously because when you're out in the woods it's so private, you're in his creation because there's no way a man could have created the idea of a tree. I know we're so smart and we have such great engineering prowess but I got a degree in geology before I moved like an undergrad and they kept speaking on you know how

this was just kind of an accident or it was evolution. I was like, man, this, this, map of everything and how it was created is way too complex for this to be a complete accident. And I even questioned it back then when I got it and my professors could give me no answer. I could not accept that I had come from a fish and there are many like conversations I love to have with people about this. it's, was just a lot.

So I'm reminded of one, my background and where I came from whenever I go outside. And also just how I get to be myself because man, the lie that you don't belong and you can't be yourself. It is so freeing knowing how Christ loves you exactly as you are. And when I could just accept that, that's when I actually started expressing myself more.

I was freed from really bad relationships, from bad habits from myself in so many ways. And nature was just like the thumbprint of God. And you can see how he's always been there in my life because...

McKenzie Smith (22:41)
Mm.

Macy Smith (22:47)
When I say love the outdoors, I've loved it since I was a kid, since I was a baby. I go run barefoot and escape my parents and I'd be back by sundown. I was raised out in the boonies and that's always been my love. And I've also seen where God has protected me. So that's what nature does for me and my relationship with God.

McKenzie Smith (22:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I would...

Sorry, brain, brain. It's funny that you study geology and that you had those questions whenever you were, you know, you weren't even a Christian. You didn't know who God was, but you were like, I don't know about this. That was, that was me when I was, you know, I always say I was agnostic, didn't have, didn't believe in the big bang theory. So I couldn't be atheist, but I have recently started hearing about this like nature.

Macy Smith (23:16)
Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Ugh.

McKenzie Smith (23:44)
like trip or thing that you can go on through the Grand Canyon with a creation scientist and they like talk to you about the geology of the Grand Canyon and how it actually backs up the flood. I'll send you the link to it, but I'm like, I'm like, I need to go to this because I feel like so often that's like people's, you know, when I'm out in nature and I'm with someone who's not a Christian, it's like, yeah, look at that. It's like 2000 million years old. And I'm like,

Macy Smith (23:53)
Whaaaat?

I'm writing Yak.

McKenzie Smith (24:15)
Yeah, or like, you know, like, this whole place used to be underwater and it's like, yep, the flood baby, like, you know. And so, you know, I think there's, there's ways that science has, has kind of come up with its own things, but there's also a lot of ways in which if you really look into it, science can back the Bible. So, or the Bible can back science. so anyways,

Macy Smith (24:16)
You

Yeah. yeah.

It does.

McKenzie Smith (24:40)
I think that's cool that you study geology because whenever you're out in nature, you can look at it all through a very different lens. So yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. And you can like appreciate intricacies that like I surely wouldn't even know. You know, you probably see things that I would look over and not even think twice about.

Macy Smith (24:44)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, makes more sense.

I mean, I say

you're making it sound way more useful than it actually is because truly I'll be out on a crag and some people will be like, you know, what can you tell me about this rock? And I was like, well, the water has flown this way and there's a sediment deposit and you might have some fossils here and there. that's it's a lot of that. I can see the history of it, but that's the extent of how interesting it is now anyway.

McKenzie Smith (25:05)
you

Yeah.

Hey, you're smarter than me. I couldn't even tell you what kind of rock it is. I'm sure you could be like, that's granite or that's sandstone or whatever. I'm like, sure, whatever you say. So can you share a story with us about a way in which God has maybe revealed himself to you or spoken to you through the outdoors?

Macy Smith (25:30)
You're sweet. Yeah.

Yeah, you don't want to climb on that. Yeah. Yeah.

through the outdoors. Yeah. yeah. So a big part of that has been about my body for one. So I use this body to go outside all the time. I'm very grateful. have like, all my limbs are intact. I've done some stupid stuff. So God's obviously protected me there.

But he's taught me a lot about what I'm capable of when it comes to pushing my limits. So when I was talking about ice climbing earlier, that is something probably 10 years ago, Macy was like, ⁓ no, I would never, I've never even seen an ice wall. Duh, there's just none where I'm from. But he has used nature to teach me that like.

Animals go out and survive long periods of time and hibernation. Trees die and come back. Coniferous forests are burned to the ground because that's how they grow. That's how they continue to spread. Without wildfires, and obviously there are some really tragic stuff, without those you wouldn't have these beautiful coniferous forests. So he's teaching me about how, not destruction I guess,

It's like the enduring of really hard circumstances actually help us to grow back stronger. And when I see that out in nature, especially when I see that in the relationship with rocks and water, you see how water and wind weathers on a stone and it weathers on a stone and it changes its shape to something completely different. And out in Zion, for example, you go through these slot canyons that you wouldn't be able to do if it wasn't withstanding the weathering.

and the constant beating of all of the elements on it to turn it into something so beautiful. So that was one thing I started seeing in terms of themes with nature and God and that this is normal. This whole endurance and being weathered down, this is life. That's kind of the part of suffering that molds you into something greater or the most common, I guess.

McKenzie Smith (27:45)
Yeah.

Macy Smith (28:09)
phrase I can think of is how pressure turns all that coal into a diamond. That kind of stuff. So that's how it's helped me out a lot. And when it comes to my body image, I've been able to endure so much that nature has been that healing encouragement for me out of everything. I'm like, if the world can go on and this has happened before, Ecclesiastes says, there's nothing new under the sun. I think I can endure this. And then I'll able to get through another day.

McKenzie Smith (28:14)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I appreciate you talking about that. You know, trees go through seasons of where they lose all their leaves and they winter, you know, and they kind of hibernate. Animals hibernate. Forests get burned down and that actually helps them grow. Like, I think we forget about some of those things sometimes in that, you know, it may seem like we're being buried, but actually, you know, we're being planted. And it's like...

Macy Smith (28:39)
So that's it.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

McKenzie Smith (29:04)
there's gonna be growth

Macy Smith (29:04)
Yes!

McKenzie Smith (29:05)
that comes out of that. And I think it's always just a really good reminder. It's like, what can I learn from this? How is this going to mold me into something different and better and definitely looking at it through that lens versus like, my gosh, I can't believe that this is happening to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I know you've touched on it a little bit. Being in Memphis, being in a deaf...

Macy Smith (29:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, why me?

McKenzie Smith (29:33)
definitely a bigger city. You said there's lots of parks, you found indoor climbing, but kind of share with us just a practical tip on a way that someone can connect with God through nature on an everyday basis, even if they live in an urban environment.

Macy Smith (29:47)
Yeah, so the first thing that comes to mind with me is stillness. Because you don't think... It's just so hard to get nowadays. There are many distractions. We have to put our phones on silent because we know our phones are constantly on us, even when we're outside. And that is one of the best ways to be still is to sit somewhere out in nature, whether that's at a park, and start observing what is immediately around you.

God speaks in many ways, but he needs the space to be able to speak to us. And if we haven't stilled the many thoughts in our heads, the many needs and requests that we want to give him in our heads, it's like waiting for your turn to talk when somebody is constantly like, I've had all this happen to me and I just can't believe it. Now. She was so wrong for that. All this other stuff. That's just, it doesn't, it doesn't leave space for God to.

say something to you. So when you're out in nature you can find stillness anywhere but you gotta you gotta be patient with yourself too because there will be that lack of grace where you're just like I can't I can't do this or I can't settle my mind just give it time it is a practice for reason there's I mean just think about it as a conversation with a total stranger as or

McKenzie Smith (30:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Macy Smith (31:16)
With one of your good friends, it wasn't very natural in the beginning. But the more and more you talk with this person, the easier and easier it gets. And you kind of understand their mannerisms or when you can interject or when they just need to be heard, all of that stuff. And the same thing can be said for nature and God.

McKenzie Smith (31:35)
Yeah, I think that's really helpful. You learn those cues and those things through talking with people. And so you got to do it and it might be awkward at first, but just keep doing it. Just keep doing it. I appreciate that. Well, Macy, switching into the title of this podcast, My Valley, His Victory, would love for you to share a valley or a season of wilderness that you experienced and just what God maybe taught you or prepared you for in that season. She said,

Macy Smith (31:43)
Yeah, yes.

Hmm.

Oof, yeah. Yeah.

McKenzie Smith (32:04)
That was so cute, and you were like, yeah.

Macy Smith (32:05)
There's a lot of oofs in my life.

The one that comes up in my mind was...

this very specific relationship that I had with a pastor that I knew. He was actually the best friend of my abuser and they did not know any of this. So I had gotten away from that and so there was this period of wilderness as you said where I had attained some form of freedom and that

That went in so many ways opposite to God, but I did not know this at the time. So when I got this phone call from a pastor and his wife and I had met his kids, his whole family, I loved them so dearly. He called me and invited me over for dinner one night and...

I was so sobered up in that moment because I was about to go hit a party and then I got a call from my mom that's like, me and your dad are getting a divorce. And I'm like, okay. I was just going to keep trying to drive. And I feel like nothing happened. 30 seconds later, he calls me. So he invites me over to dinner. say, yeah, I could use a friend. Like that sounds great. And so in the midst of all of this, I go and have dinner with him and his family. And I just get straight to the point because this is so out of the blue.

He knows what happened between us and everything or between myself and the abuser, his friend. And so to this day, I still am just like, not my place to talk about it. What did you invite me over to dinner for? I feel like there's something you want to talk to me about. And he says, yeah, how are you doing spiritually? Nobody had asked me that question. Nobody has ever asked me that question in my.

20 something years of life. I don't remember how old it was now, but it was just a dam that opened up and I was able to just tell him what was going on in my life. Like tell him, you know, I had been drinking and driving. I had been going to all these parties. I had been in this awful lifestyle and he just him and his wife sat there and listened to me and this was like the first night. So obviously they they were in for something but

They really took the time and the space to hear me out. And they didn't talk to me about Jesus that first night. I just want to let that be known. They just gave me a meal. They gave me the space to tell about all the pain that I had experienced. And I knew they were Christians. I already knew that. They knew that. I knew as a pastor that that did not need to be said. So.

That period of wilderness was really rough because I was trying to find my sense of freedom and privacy back in my life. Like some kind of control. was really wrestling with it. And for the next four months, they, that amazing couple answered all of my geology questions that I had for them about creation. They answered all of my questions that I had in doubt. had severe doubt and they welcomed it. They were just like, awesome. You doubt this. Let's, go into.

talk about that. And I mean it's once a week for just a couple hours, however long I can stay. And when I tell you there were many times on my drive back home that I was just bawling my eyes out because of how the Lord was working in me, but also what I knew I needed to die to. It was tragically beautiful in its own way. But God was, he was really working on me because

McKenzie Smith (35:53)
you

Macy Smith (35:57)
He showed me what true love was through that family. What true unconditional like we love you, we see you as God's child before I even said yes to Jesus. And then, you know, time comes to that moment. And in my mind, I was already excited. I was like, oh yeah, sure. Let's do this thing. Baptize me in the tub. Whatever we need to do if I fit. All that good stuff. But there's just the one night where I was like, this one's hard. I need to go back home. And they feared.

They feared that that was the moment. So I came back, I got baptized, everything was all good. And my life has been so much more adventurous than it was before. And I don't mean adventurous in the partying kind of way. I mean, that wilderness that he brought me out of was so extreme to an extent that I should have died in many, many areas that once he saw where my heart was at and I said, yes,

It's, there's no going back. I cannot imagine a day where I would not choose Jesus now because of, because I choose to remember what he brought me out of too. I don't forget any part of the things I used to do, the ways I used to treat people, the things I used to say, the lies that I would tell others. There's no forgetting that because when I forget that, I forget what God has taken me out of and I don't want that. So.

That's why I said oof.

McKenzie Smith (37:28)
Yeah. So you get out of this abusive relationship, you're in this season of partying, drinking, all the things, and your parents just call you. They say, hey, we're getting a divorce. Not even 30 seconds later, this pastor calls you and is like, hey, can you come over for dinner? Just like, wow, the providence of God in that moment because

Macy Smith (37:49)
Yeah.

McKenzie Smith (37:55)
He knew that you needed somebody and you were going to turn, you know, you said you're on your way to a party, like you were going to turn to the wrong thing. But I want to ask a question kind of about about the pastor in this situation. So you said he was the best friend of of your abuser. Was he someone that you had like a friendship or a relationship with before, like while that while that relationship was going on or like?

Macy Smith (38:01)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Ugh.

McKenzie Smith (38:24)
I guess for me, like if my abuser's best friend called me and asked me to come over dinner, I don't know if I would have done that. You know what I mean? Like, it's kind of like, what's your motive here? Is he hiding at the house? Like, is an excuse to like get me to talk to my ex? You know, like, I guess like talk us through that. Like, was there any of that for you in that moment?

Macy Smith (38:30)
Hmm

Yeah, I do.

Yeah, that is a very, it is a very like uncommon, complicated dynamic. So I had known him for years prior because me and my ex would go and visit him together. We would drive all the way from Chattanooga to Memphis to visit him. So I had met him maybe three or four times prior. The reason why I trusted his invite is because I witnessed the amount of integrity and love that his family had in every instance, every opportunity I had seen them.

because one, because I knew that they knew, because they knew that I was an unbeliever. And they actually believed that when we moved to Memphis, like me and my ex moved to Memphis, that it was to bring his best friend back to the faith. That's what he thought was to happen. But when we also had dinner, I forgot to mention this detail. He said my name came up in prayer and God, you know, asked him.

Why don't you reach out to Macy? They still have my number and everything. And so there was just, there was a lot of trust that had to be built prior to that. The other thing is, ⁓ I, I made a decision not to bad mouth. I say bad mouth, just not talking negatively about my ex to his best friend because I was working on forgiveness.

as soon as he left, as soon as he left, I was like if I'm ever going to heal from this I have to learn to forgive. And that was the very first lesson that God showed me his power. His amazing great sovereign power was forgiveness. If I'm to forgive anybody it's the person that has caused me the most pain in my life. And that was for multiple people but

Yeah, I hope that helps answer because it was complicated and we still stay in touch today. You know, I love him and his family, everything they've done for me. It was exactly how it was supposed to be though, because not only could he answer questions or just start conversation around creationism or geology and all that stuff, because both of his parents are science teachers.

McKenzie Smith (40:48)
Yeah.

Macy Smith (41:12)
That boy was raised on physical geology, chemistry, physics, and he has a degree in theology. There's just no better person that could have sat there and brought out not just the Bible, but like other books that I had on the topic. So it was, it was comforting. God was seeing me so clearly and so obviously. And I felt, I felt called to something.

McKenzie Smith (41:15)
you

Yeah.

Macy Smith (41:41)
to a relationship with him so clearly. It was, it was just great.

McKenzie Smith (41:46)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the thing that comes to mind as we're sitting here talking is like just how important it is to have someone that you can trust to ask questions to, especially in that, you know, wrestling season of like.

Macy Smith (41:50)
Thank

Yes.

McKenzie Smith (42:04)
Okay, I've heard about Jesus. I'm unsure if this is a real thing. Like, you know, I had a lot of the same, you know, experiences you do. I can relate to your story in lot of ways. I had a lot of hard questions and I had, you know, I was lucky enough to have a friend who was there, you know, right beside me answering the questions, giving me resources, giving me things. And so, yeah, I guess like I can...

Macy Smith (42:08)
Mm-hmm.

you

McKenzie Smith (42:33)
think of some people that may not be so lucky to have that person. You know, they're like, man, I want to trust God. Like I've heard of this, of this person. I have been going to church. Nobody really talks to me. I don't have Christian friends because I'm living in this super worldly life. Like what advice or piece of encouragement would you give to that person who

Macy Smith (42:40)
Huh.

in the

McKenzie Smith (43:03)
who has all these questions but has no one to ask them to, guess.

Macy Smith (43:07)
yeah well yeah really like set up an appointment just watch and pray pray about it but then you got to do the work of watching where God's answering your prayer it's Matthew 26 i can't remember what it is it's it's in the book of Matthews watch and pray and i say that because i wasn't just

McKenzie Smith (43:10)
Call me, I'll try my hardest. There's my answer.

Macy Smith (43:36)
ambling about going to parties, I was on a spiritual search, which is why when that question was asked to me, it was the dam that was being opened because the dam was full of all of my questions. It was full of them and it was full of all my pain and full of all my whys and everything. I acknowledged God at some point and I prayed to many other like

you know, lowercase gods. had done so much. I tried runes, tarot cards, witchcraft, just all this stuff to try and get some spiritual answer, which don't recommend it. Introduces a lot of spiritual warfare into your life. And he freed me from that, from all of it, every bit of it. But I still, I still had to go to him first in some way. And if you just pray, pray very...

very you know you can pray specifically you can just pray to him just talk to him somehow when you take that moment of stillness outside tell him what you need he already knows what you need he's just waiting on you to ask go ahead and ask and then you need to watch don't just sit there in your house don't just sit there checking facebook waiting for this magical message to pop up don't just sit there at the church like really watch and be aware of where god might be

McKenzie Smith (44:50)
you

Macy Smith (44:57)
turning your focus or making somebody else like more prominent or just where somebody comes out at you and they're like, know what, I should go, I should go say hi to this person because God also does the work where you don't have a voice. God also does the work where you're not present. You just need to meet him that way. That's the relationship portion. It is not just the constant, you know,

I'm the parental figure that's going to do everything for you. That's how you end up spoiled and ungrateful. So do the work for yourself because you're worth it. Your questions will be answered. Pray about it. Pray and watch.

McKenzie Smith (45:25)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's a really good reminder, you know, on the opposite end of the spectrum for those of us who are followers of Christ. I think, you know, I can get wrapped up in this sometimes too, is like, ask those questions to the people that you are unsure about. You know, like if you are not sure if they are a follower of Christ or not, open that door.

Macy Smith (45:49)
another

Yeah, that's good.

McKenzie Smith (45:58)
ask those conversations, invite them over for dinner and be intentional with that time, you know, and ask the questions. And, you know, I like that you said that they didn't talk about Jesus the first time that you were over there. They didn't open the Bible. You know, it wasn't like, hey, we know you're, you know, this person, like, here you go. Here's a Bible. You need it. You're a sinner. You know, it was like, hey, let me learn about where you're at in your life and let me. Because I think our approach to everybody in kind of

Macy Smith (46:04)
this.

and

you

Yeah.

McKenzie Smith (46:27)
you know, sharing the gospel should be different. You know, I think that there, you know, someone probably arguing be like, no, you could always do it this way. I'm like, yeah, but you're probably going to have better results if you like personalize it, you know, or if you like get to know what they're struggling with, if you get to know what their, ⁓ you know, their, hesitations are or what their roadblocks are or the things that they've never been able to reconcile that they just wrote it all off because they couldn't reconcile this one thing, you know,

Macy Smith (46:29)
Yes.

Thank

Yes. Yes.

McKenzie Smith (46:56)
And so I think it's just good, a good reminder for us listening that like, if we have friends like that, we don't have to be a pastor. We don't have to be somebody in ministry. Like we just have to ask the questions and open that door and be intentional with that time. So.

Macy Smith (47:11)
Very, very.

McKenzie Smith (47:14)
I would, I'm going to ask you for double advice. I know I already asked you for a piece of advice, but I'm going to ask you for double advice. Double trouble, because you also brought up that one of the things that you're working on, even before you kind of really came to know the Lord, which I think is amazing and beautiful, was the forgiveness of this person that had wronged you. And I think so often we can

Macy Smith (47:17)
Okay.

⁓ yeah.

McKenzie Smith (47:43)
we can justify our unforgiveness. It's like this person did this, you know, or I could never forgive someone who does X, you know, or whatever that is. And so just would love for you to, you know, speak, speak some advice or words of encouragement to somebody who is maybe dealing with unforgiveness and struggling and maybe they don't feel like they need to forgive.

Macy Smith (47:47)
Hmm

and

yeah

well I'll just tell you right now I have felt that way that I felt almost a righteous anger it seems like where somebody has hurt me or abused me to such an extent that they don't deserve forgiveness first of all all of us all of us have heard somebody else in some way and the moment I start to believe that I can't forgive somebody

that is like putting myself on top tier shelf. It's like this spot right here. Like I'm way up here and this person's way down here. Like they don't they don't deserve they don't deserve that. The moment I put myself there the moment I'm in this headspace where God is like I'm not listening to God. I'm listening to myself and that direction those directions that Google Maps has taken me to such horrible places that like way out in the wilderness you need to follow the directions that God

gave you. And so what I mean by that is when you feel that level of intense unforgiveness, because not only did I have to deal with that with my ex, but my father who just completely abandoned and abused me in so many ways in my childhood, and it's supernatural. Forgiveness is supernatural. It sincerely takes supernatural

God-like love, human love, is not enough. We are healed because God loves the way God loves. Not because God loves the way that man loves. And I hope that makes sense because yeah, because forgiveness is supernatural. Because if we based, know, if we had a checked box for, well they have to forgive me or I'll forgive them when they apologize. Well what if they're dead?

McKenzie Smith (49:47)
It sure does.

Macy Smith (50:03)
I can't apologize to you. I'll forgive them when they do X, Y, and Z for me. You can't make anybody do anything. I'll forgive them when they send me $10,000. Well, that's really not coming your way. If it does, good for you. it's just like we come up with all of these requirements for forgiveness that severely hinder us from freedom.

That's what I mean by forgiveness is supernatural. God will tell you how it works. God works on the healing of the other person. God works on their hearts in ways and you can pray about that too. Because I will never get that apology from my abuser. I will never get that apology from them. I will never get all of my money back. I will never get my body image back. I will never get this certain reputation back. I will never get so many things back from them. And if

you live your life waiting on that, that is the holding, that is the taking poison every morning anger that we're talking about. So the way I did it was one day at a time and understanding that Lord help my unforgiveness, just like Lord help my unbelief, Lord help my unforgiveness, and he'll show you what that looks like in your life. And

McKenzie Smith (51:18)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Macy Smith (51:28)
he just just to like reveal to give a little praise report when i got married ⁓ when i got married i first of all never thought i would be a wife and never thought i would be like i wanted to be a mother but the person that god put in my life was so different and so just perfect in so many ways that i'm treated well

He has helped me go to like he's encouraged counseling because there's so much PTSD that comes from living that lifestyle and during that kind of trauma. He was the one that was like go do this. I will support you before we even got married. I was like, are you sure this is this is the package? This is the package deal. And mind you, he was a Christian man. So this was like that was another really important thing for me. But God did answer that prayer and my unforgiveness happened.

more and more the more I learned about God's love and that supernatural force and when he helped answer my prayer with seeing what true love between a man and woman is like with my husband.

McKenzie Smith (52:38)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Thank you so much for sharing that and just for giving that piece of advice because I think you started that off with we can have what we feel like is righteous anger, you know, and I think we can just easily get into this.

Macy Smith (52:53)
Yes.

McKenzie Smith (53:04)
this justifiable, you we can start to justify all of the things. so I just love that you said it's supernatural and that, know, it's not, it's not us because if it was humans, we would, we would surely not, not be doing all of that. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ well, I appreciate that. Well, thank you, Macy, so much just for sharing and for walking us through just your journey and in this season of life and just all the things that you've shared.

Macy Smith (53:07)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, my list would be long.

McKenzie Smith (53:34)
For those listening who maybe want to follow along or connect with you, where can they find you?

Macy Smith (53:40)
I have an Instagram account called Macy Howell, like Wolf Howell, H-O-W-L, M-A-C-Y, H-O-W-L. My maiden name is Howell, so I just put Macy Howell.

McKenzie Smith (53:52)
Cool, cool, cool, cool.

Anything else? That's it? Instagram? Okay. Hey, that's okay. I love it, I love it. Well, again, just thank you so much for being here and for sharing all that you have.

Macy Smith (53:57)
Now, I pretty much stay off social media a good bit, but you'll see my outdoor photos.

Yeah, thank you so much, McKenize. It's always been a joy to talk to you.