076 - What if I’m Not Enough? Learning to Lead in the Mountains and in Faith with Rachel Zupke

In this episode, Rachel Zupke shares her journey as a wife, mother, coach, and mountaineer, emphasizing the importance of adventure, community, and faith. She discusses how her love for the outdoors has deepened her relationship with God and how she encourages others to embrace challenges. Rachel reflects on her experiences in mountaineering, the role of prayer, and the significance of having a supportive community. She also opens up about her struggles with fear and perfectionism, offering insights on how to overcome these challenges and find joy in the journey.

Transcript

McKenzie Piland (00:00)
On today's episode of My Valley, His Victory, we have Rachel Zupke. She is a wife, homeschool mom of three, high school coach, hiker, and mountain climber. Several years ago, she connected the dots and saw that God had given her a passion for helping people do hard things outside. She personally embraces and lives by the values of challenge, hospitality, seeking and sharing knowledge and wisdom, and encouraging others to join her as we revel in the creation God so generously made for us.

She loves the preparation that is physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually required for safe and fulfilling adventure, and it brings her joy to hike and climb with others. The Lord has shown her his love in so many ways through her efforts to journey in the wilderness. If you hike or climb together, she's always good for a story of his faithfulness, a great cup of coffee at a viewpoint, and a .5 summit pick to remember that adventure by. Thanks so much for being with us today, Rachel.

Rachel Zupke (01:03)
Thanks for having me, Kenzie.

McKenzie Piland (01:05)
Yeah, absolutely. I was like, wait, point five, what does that mean? And then I remembered the selfie. Of course, duh. I was like, am I saying that right? And then immediately I clicked.

Rachel Zupke (01:15)
Well, and then it's funny because like I talk about enjoying teaching people things. One of the gals that I've climbed with several times now taught me that and I started using it in coaching for attendance pictures and my athletes thought I was so cool. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, The person who's really cool is the gal who taught me and it was just so, so fun.

McKenzie Piland (01:38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. my gosh. Well, I feel like we have so much to jump into just in that bio alone. But I would love for you to just share with listeners a little bit more about who you are and what you do and all the fun things.

Rachel Zupke (01:51)
I will start from where I'm at, which is my house. So at home, I'm a wife, I'm a mom, I homeschool our three kids. I'm blessed to be home, which is super cool to get to grow up with them, which meant that like this last winter, all four of us, myself and my three kids got to learn how to ski together, which like when you're 40 and learning to do a new thing is kind of wild, but also really, really fun.

I don't feel like it's that often that you get to learn something, which feels intense. You don't get to learn something that intense with your kids usually because either it's maybe too dangerous for how old they are, but skiing is so accessible. And my kids this year were eight, 10 and 12. that was anyway, so homeschool mom, adventure mom, I guess. Adventure mom and yeah, we.

McKenzie Piland (02:33)
Definitely Adventure Mom.

Rachel Zupke (02:39)
We like to go outside, whether it's small adventures like walking down, live in Western Washington within blocks of a marina. So sometimes we just go to the waterfront and sometimes we're up in the hills. I remember our first backpacking trip with the kids. The kids were

almost four, almost six, almost eight. And we did a 27 mile loop over three days. And that was amazing, but also bonkers. But at the same time, we've developed our kids' expectations to be, you adventure. Whether it's difficult, easy, fun, hard, whatever, adventuring's worth the process.

I'm also a high school coach. I am a head cross country coach at the local public high school. And then I'm actually an assistant track and field coach at the rival public high school where I coach pole vaulters. Yeah, that's a whole, it's fun. but I just really enjoy helping, especially teenagers do hard things outside. also get to, I also call myself a professional volunteer where I volunteer with a local rock climbing ministry.

where they take middle schoolers out and they need people like me who I'm not in charge, but I can spot safety issues when there are safety issues and I can connect with middle schoolers pretty quickly, even if I've never met them before. And I'm not actually in the system in the climbers triangle. They're climbing, they're belaying, they're back up belaying and I'm just there to make sure that things happen safely.

which is super fun. so, I mean, I'll climb sometimes, I'll belay sometimes, but, and then probably the biggest ways that I'm a professional volunteer is through things called Freedom Hikes and Climb for Captives, which both are adventure philanthropy opportunities that support Atlas Free, which I know that you've had a couple of people who have gotten to share about that. And the thing that I have,

that will probably be most of this conversation will be about climb for captives. just my like, I don't know, 10 years ago, even five, because I didn't go on my first mountain climb till 2020. If you had told me that I would climb a mountain at all, like a legit mountain, I'd be like, they're pretty to look at. I like hiking and looking at them. And then if you told me I would be leading climbs that

is even more wild to me. But that's, I mean, that's God, right? he, we also rewind even further back. My husband and I were both high school teachers. He had 150 students. I had 150 students over our five class periods in a day. And we both were like, well, yeah, we're not having kids. These are our kids. This is who God has us to serve. And now here we are with three children of our own. So it's just, you zoom out and you're like, God, wait, what? And so.

McKenzie Piland (05:29)
Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that's so true all the time. It's just like, wait, what? I'm doing what? Where? With who? Huh? Question mark. That's so cool. So kind of on your coaching things that you do, were you a runner? Were you in track and field? Like what drew you to that piece of coaching?

Rachel Zupke (05:38)
Yes, yes, exactly.

Yeah, I was a college basketball player and in high school, mean, obviously basketball in high school, but I also went out for the cross country team to get in shape for basketball season. And it was awesome because my coach, like, unless I was playing bad, he didn't have a reason to pull me out because I was never tired. And, I just fell in love with a sport where I'm speaking of cross country. I fell in love with a sport where effort.

really pays off. There's obviously skill is important. Like you need to have good running form, but versus something like shooting a free throw, there's a very specific set of skills that you have to really hone in on and develop or dribbling or whatever. Where in cross country, it's like, honestly, you try hard and you're going to get better at something. So I've remembered how much I loved that and

McKenzie Piland (06:36)
haha

Rachel Zupke (06:40)
Then I was coaching. I also love track. I loved track in high school and I loved the camaraderie in the culture of it didn't matter if you were a thrower or sprinter or jumper or distance runner. Like we were all doing cool stuff and hanging out the track in the afternoon. Like doesn't get better than that in springtime in high school. So then fast forward to when I'm coaching basketball, which is my first love in terms of sport. And we had moved towns and I had gotten a job coaching

basketball here at the high school that I'm still coaching cross country at and they needed a cross country coach, an assistant, excuse me. And I applied for it and they were like, well, you're already on staff coaching something else. I was already the JV girls basketball coach. Like we'd love to have you in another sport. And that turned into being the head cross country coach. And I just found how much I love the culture piece. I love pushing kids.

a smidge out of their comfort zone, but because they feel safe to do so based on how their coaches treat them, how their teammates talk to them, how everybody is trying to improve themselves, not like me versus you. But if we all are trying to get better versus how we were before, then we all get better. And that's really where that's really where true development comes from. And that's the thing. And this is my favorite part of it.

When you graduate, you have real skills that you can use the rest of your life that you can apply to anything that you do, whether it's academic or physical or whatever. And you learn that in cross country. So I just, I love that about cross. I could talk for way longer about that, but that's probably my favorite. Yeah.

McKenzie Piland (08:17)
Yeah, okay, very cool.

I think that it's cool that you originally had done cross country in high school just to like stay in shape for basketball. Like that's cool. And then like you said, you know, just like there is a level of like effort. It's like, yes, there's skill, but there's also effort. And like, you can't really teach effort in a lot of ways, you know what I mean? And so definitely a good group of kids to get to be around and hang out with and hopefully, you know, encourage and inspire and

all the things. So are you originally from Washington? ⁓

Rachel Zupke (08:44)
Yeah.

Yeah, I live about

30 minutes north of where I grew up.

McKenzie Piland (08:53)
Okay, so you said you talked about climbing, we've talked a little bit about mountaineering and hiking and taking your kids on backpacking trips, all of those fun things. I know you said you just started mountaineering in the last five years, but did you grow up doing kind of all the rest of these things or where did this love for adventure come from?

Rachel Zupke (09:12)
Definitely

did not grow up doing that level of adventure. I grew up affectionately, I affectionately call blue tarp camping where it rains a lot. You need to have a blue tarp over the picnic table. I guess you haven't heard this term before.

McKenzie Piland (09:30)
before and this is hilarious because it also is just Washington, right?

Rachel Zupke (09:33)
It's so

Western Washington, like going out to Claylock on the ocean and it's just like sideways rain and you're in a cloud the whole time, but it's still, you're still

McKenzie Piland (09:44)
And you're

camping in this weather? Why? Why? Question mark.

Rachel Zupke (09:47)
Yes.

Well, I was a kid. I wasn't making these decisions. I just went. Or then I think my first actual like hiking was with my grandpa, to tell you the truth, where he and my grandma lived in the Seattle area, but bought a cabin in Leavenworth, which is a very famous outdoor town here.

bought a cabin in Leavenworth in the early 70s and they would go for like the whole summer. And I remember going there as a kid and it was right on the river. I remember learning safe river behavior, super young, and just really treating the mountains with a sense of awe, but also a little bit of fear, like these could kill you. So I remember that from a really young age.

which is something that I very much keep in mind. I mean, it's part of my bio, right? Like safe and fulfilling adventure, like safe. But I remember going on a hike with my grandpa to, Merritt Lake. So it's right off a highway to on the way to Leavenworth from the West side. And I just, I don't have any specific memories, but I haven't ever forgotten that hike.

and that that's what he loved to do and that maybe it was something I might like to do, but I just never had because growing up my summers were playing basketball and I was in tournaments or I was like around and doing things and like my parents really enjoy water skiing. And so they would, we would go as a family and go to the Columbia River and do that for a week, which was great. But I found that I wasn't like a sit by the.

I wasn't a sit by the river person. I was like, can I get in it? Can I do something cool in it? Like water skiing's great, but that's like a machine. But what can I do? And I was, I remember thinking things like that where I'm like, what human powered thing? And then we were busy and moved to the next thing. But then my husband, when we were, I met him in college and I remember we went on a backpacking trip with like a group of friends or whatever.

McKenzie Piland (11:31)
You

Rachel Zupke (11:55)
we should have brought a blue tarp. It poured rain. We were at Pete Lake outside of Clealum. And I remember my roommate and I, she and I woke up in our tent and there's like, you know what, they're called a bathtub floor. The bath was in the tent, not outside the tent. I was like, bless. oh, just a little bit. But then we got married and we celebrated our anniversaries.

McKenzie Piland (12:16)
Type two fun.

Rachel Zupke (12:24)
until our oldest was born and then her first birthday because she was born near our anniversary. So for our first five years of anniversary celebrations we went backpacking and one of those backpacking trips we scored the literal lottery and got four days and three nights in the core of the enchantments which is

you know, like what 1 % of people get those now because of how many people apply. so yeah, that's, that was a big part of it too, was that he, was something he really enjoyed and he grew up blue tarp camping. And so our, our goal together was how can we go camping more, but less in the rain? So instead of hoping at the beach, we would go up high or we would go on the other side of the Cascades.

McKenzie Piland (12:45)
Yeah. ⁓

You

Rachel Zupke (13:12)
And it's just been, yeah, then with kids, it's like, why would we stop doing that? And so it's just continuous.

McKenzie Piland (13:17)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah, absolutely.

I love that. feel like we grew up very similarly in that, you know, we played sports during the summer and we were just busy with that kind of stuff. And we had got on like little adventures, you know, but not, not this life that we're living now, but you know, it really wasn't until our adult heart or college that we really got into the outdoors. And it's cool that your husband, you know, is kind of, kind of one of the propellers in that whole thing. And that you guys just also haven't stopped since you have had kids, you know, I feel like it goes, I always say this, it goes one of two ways either. stop everything.

that you love to do or you just figure out a way to bring them along. And so I always love the parents that just bring them along because you do have to revolve your life somewhat around kids, but it doesn't have to fully revolve around them all the time.

Rachel Zupke (13:52)
Hey.

Well, and then they might

learn that they love something or that they don't. But I would love to be the person to introduce them and let them experience it in, gosh, I come back to the word safe all the time. I want them to come back or I want them to experience in a safe way and then be able to rewind and say, but did I like that or did I not like that? As opposed to I was terrified for my life so I will never do it again.

McKenzie Piland (14:08)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel Zupke (14:29)
Like I don't want that to be the hurdle. I want it

to be how did God make you? Did God make you inclined to enjoy this or did God make you inclined to enjoy something else?

McKenzie Piland (14:38)
Yeah, yeah,

definitely. So the outdoors are great. We love getting out there. We love doing all the things. Talk to us a little bit about how the outdoors plays a role in your relationship with Christ.

Rachel Zupke (14:50)
Huh.

Well, I think just because I've been so much more involved in the outdoors in the last now six years, I've always been in awe of his creation, the beauty, the... Like when you talk like awe as in awesome, as in so big, can't comprehend it. I've always had that.

somehow within me. I love I've always loved hiking and looking at vistas or backpacking to this really great tent spot up high where I can look down. One of one of my favorite sunset hikes ever was with our friend Devin. And we went up to Beckler Peak with our pups. And just it's kind of in the center of a bunch of ridgelines and everywhere you look.

there's some jagged ridgeline to look at as it like changes color as the sun goes down. And I just, I've always been in spaces like that and thought, how do people see this and not believe in a creator? Like this is incredible. And that he made this for us. And then I found Mountaineering and discovered

I'm sure you have in your life discovered something that your body feels good doing. And some of my friends and I joke about how if this was like a dating profile description, would be, enjoys walking up steep, icy slopes with sharp objects in the pitch dark. Like why? Who likes that? I do.

But it's true and it sounds super crazy, but at the same time, I'm in that space, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and there's just that quiet of cramp on grabbing glacier, cramp on grabbing glacier, ice axe if I need it, just like every time. That rhythm and that sound and that peace is just that to me,

connects me to the Lord. it just, the whole one foot in front of the other piece that he invites us into, that is so tangible when you're climbing a mountain. Because it's literally, you look at Mount Baker, I'm talking about Washington Mountains at the moment. You look at Mount Baker, you look at Mount Rainier, you look at Mount Adams or Mount St. whatever, right? And you're like, they're so big, literally just one foot in front of the other. And how much of my life with the Lord has just been.

McKenzie Piland (16:55)
you

Rachel Zupke (17:21)
one foot in front of the other, just obey, just keep going, and I'll give you what you need when you get there. And I think the parallels of what that looks like in Mountaineering and what that looks like in life, for me, it's also been that I can't do it alone, which is something that God has shown me through Mountaineering, which you can totally climb peaks by yourself.

McKenzie Piland (17:40)
Hmm.

Rachel Zupke (17:47)
But at the same time, there's a there's a different level of safety that you have when you're with a trusted when you're with a trusted climbing partner. There's a different level of joy when you're sharing it with someone. There's a different level of challenge when you're sharing it with someone that maybe is not your favorite. mean, it's like stuff happens, right? And maybe it is someone you've really enjoyed climbing with, but something happens and you're like.

Whoa, how am gonna deal with this? And just like how God walks you through that. And for me personally, there have been people in my mountaineering journey who have spoken into my life in ways that other people can't because they don't have that same experience. They don't have that same understanding. And it's not that those other people don't care about me or don't understand me.

McKenzie Piland (18:33)
Thank

Rachel Zupke (18:40)
But there's something really unique about the challenge of the mountains and what it takes to make good decisions, what it takes to prepare well, that those people can uniquely speak in to maybe lies you're believing about yourself or things that maybe you should step into but don't feel brave enough yet or don't feel qualified. And those are the people who rightfully

can step in and say, you know, I actually see you X, Y, Z, like doing these things, but you just need to do it. Like what's holding you back? And then the fact that they're available and like give you the space to have those conversations, that's just like such a gift. And these are people that I've met because I've said yes to Mountaineering and how much I've learned about myself.

and how God has made me and how much I've learned about the Lord and how to like, the word submit like yes, God, whoa.

Like you, there are scenarios where you have no choice, but to be like, okay, God, I literally can't do anything right now. What do I do? And yeah. But then like, like that's thing. If I was alone in all of this, I would not have made great decisions because I wouldn't have that like iron sharpening iron. I wouldn't have that encouragement and that accountability. And

I think the most beautiful part of all of this is that my husband actually doesn't climb mountains. They're like not his thing. He'd climbed once. He did Baker with the team that I was on back in 2022. he, I mean, I'm competitive. He is very competitive and I love it. And he's like, well, never climbing again. And I'm like, what are you talking about? It was awesome. He goes, my summit percentage will always be better than yours because I'm one for one.

McKenzie Piland (20:01)
.

I love that.

Rachel Zupke (20:28)
And it like grated on me. like, he's right. But also, that's for me, that's not the point of climbing. Like the competitor in me for a split second was like.

McKenzie Piland (20:35)
Yeah.

Rachel Zupke (20:38)
That's why I love him. Like he's the one that encourages me to get out, to connect. I mean, I can't, what did I say? My kids are eight, 10 and 12. I started this five, six years ago when they weren't eight, 10 and 12. I can't just leave for three days to climb mountains if my husband isn't supportive of it. Like, so that also has just been a beautiful gift of my husband saying, yeah.

you love this, go. So that's been pretty amazing.

McKenzie Piland (21:06)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's beautiful. And I love that you have that partner and just that you've even like just had the awareness to notice these things about mountaineering and about climbing mountains. And I just feel like everything that you said was just so, so impactful and just like that there really is something about getting out and doing hard things with other people that really mold and shape, you know.

who we are and it's like, can do it. You were right. Like we can a hundred percent go and hike mountains by ourselves. But like, you're not going to learn the same things. You're not going to have the same experience. You're going to learn to rely on yourself. And that's not very good either. So, man, so much good in that. I would love for you to share a specific story about a way in which maybe God has revealed himself to you or spoken to you through the outdoors.

Rachel Zupke (21:55)
I, this last, about a week and a half ago, ⁓ recent, a week and a half ago, I got to climb Rainier with a team and it was my first lead. Now, preface, leaders should never lead alone. So while, so when I coach, I call myself the benevolent dictator.

McKenzie Piland (22:00)
Ooh, recent.

Rachel Zupke (22:18)
where I am in charge, but I love you. And you can give me your input, but I'm gonna make a decision or whatever the final decision is, which also means I'm responsible if something goes wrong. Or the buck stops with me, I should say. And same thing on climbs, not because someone needs to be responsible, but when there's a split second decision that needs to be made, if it's a...

full on democracy and all eight people, we go around the circle and everybody gives their input, the decision needed to have been made like before that ever happened. And so when we climb, not that someone is a guide or in charge, but realistically, someone has to able to make a quick decision. And who is that? And oftentimes that's me. And that ends up like,

if I'm with friends, if I'm with moms and kids. I mean, I just find myself in all these leadership roles and I'm like, okay, God, guess this is what I get to do. And that's actually a big coaching thing for me. I say get to instead of have to. And just, that was a big powerful thing. By the way, if you say get to, the corners of your mouth have to go up. If you have,

like your face changes, but if you say get, you have to turn your face up a little bit. So even if you weren't planning on smiling, too bad. Side note. So we had a Rainier Climb and this was with Climb for Captives and we are a bunch of friends who believe that we can make a dent in the problem of sex trafficking. And so during our training, we fundraise and then we climb a mountain to celebrate, which sounds bonkers to most people. We think...

It's true. And so we climbed mountains to celebrate. And we were going to meet as a team on a Saturday and head up to base camp on Sunday, climb either Monday morning or Tuesday morning based on the weather. Thankfully we had permits all the way till Wednesday, so we had flexibility. And I woke up the Wednesday morning, three days before the Saturday with a horrific migraine. And we're talking...

all the things that come with migraines to the point where I did all my normal stuff and it didn't go away. And it was, I was devastated because all I had in my brain was if this is happening now, I'm not going to be able to prepare my body well for being at altitude, for climbing, for the exertion, for this, for that. Like I couldn't even hydrate well.

because I couldn't keep anything down. It was so bad. And I had to also cancel something that I love to do. lead worship at our church on occasion and I was scheduled to lead worship that night. And we were doing this new song, well, new song for our church. It's Psalm 8, How Majestic Is Your Name by Shane and Shane. And that matters. So I'd been practicing this song, so excited. It went really well with the sermon that was gonna be that night.

and had to cancel and I was just like heartbroken because I was so, I love worshiping with our church, not like for our church, but with. And that was frustrating to me, but I knew that it was the right decision if I wanted to be ready to climb. And the migraine did not go away. It persisted and I was.

Really frustrated. I had a migraine all the way until we got to base camp Sunday night at Camp Muir and I was ready to cry. Just like, God, why? If I already have a headache and most people get them as they go up in altitude, like, am I just like prepared? Like, you're already at a six. Let's go from there. And it was just that disbelief.

of I've done all this preparation, you've led me this far. Am I going to not get to leave base camp? Like I was afraid I was going to wake up throwing up again, which is what happens to me when I get migraines. And I woke up at 11 45 p.m. because Alpine starts. We were also a little not worried, but like we were cognizant of the fact that

We weren't sure how fast our team was gonna move. So we did leave a little earlier than some teams do. And I woke up and I didn't have a hint of a headache, nothing, absolutely nothing. And I kinda was like, is the headache that bad that I just don't notice it? Because sometimes things are just so bad that you block them out. And as we went up in altitude, as we climbed, as we...

I actually love the DC route on Rainier. I love the necessity of being quick through the ice box on the Ingram Glacier. I love the cleaver itself. It's actually all rock right now. So it's like this fun, scrambly, you got to figure out where you're going. I mean, nothing above a high class three. And then you're on the upper mountain. And I'm taking all of it in.

as opposed to panicking about how I feel or worried about my teammates, where I'm checking in with my teammates still, I'm able to engage with them, I'm able to set a good pace. And I mean, and I am the front rope, I'm the front of the front rope, am leading, and I'm leading without any feeling of panic, pain, nothing.

It was glorious. my kids, there's a series of books and shows on either like Christian martyrs or just famous Christians from the past. And one of them is Eric Little. And he was a famous Scottish runner who wouldn't run on Sundays and shared why. one of his quotes is, I'm gonna misquote him.

but that was God made me fast and when I run, feel his pleasure. And that quote came to mind as I'm on the upper mountain and I'm just one foot in front of the other, setting a pace that feels good to me, but also I can feel my team moving well with it. And I'm like, that's what he was talking about. Like this, this feels like what I was made to do.

I was made to be on a mountain with other people who have a common goal, who want to experience God's creation. Oh, that song, we're back on the cleaver. So this is before this part and the sun's coming up on the horizon and those like, you know those layers that are like you've got the dark dark, but then you got the dark up here and then it's like orange, pink, blue, kind of like just the weirdest ombre layers and like a crescent moon in the sky.

And the beginning of that song of that Psalm eight that I had practiced is when I look at your heavens, the moon and stars you set in motion. God. We sing all glory and honor. What is man that you are mindful? Like what? just I'm sorry. I've like children.

And I had been, I mean, I've known that song for a couple of years, but I had been practicing it. So it was like in my head right there. And like, I just look off to the right and that's what I see. And that comes to mind. And I actually felt so good that I sang it out loud as I'm ascending. That's wild. That's absolutely wild. I should not have felt that good. I, I.

It's the first climb that I've ever been on where I truly experienced it, which was also a prayer request that I spoke aloud for the first time back in like March, where that was a prayer request of I, I get so caught up in the details and the neuroticness of like being safe, doing it right, that I don't actually expect.

McKenzie Piland (29:51)
Hmm.

Rachel Zupke (30:12)
Experience what God has for me until way way way way after but then it's not even experiencing. It's reflecting on it and I realized I'm experiencing I'm I'm in this I've never gotten to do that before and It it was incredible and God just then the ways that God has shown up for me and mountaineering have have not been small by any means and

I could tell many relational stories that have come out of it that the Lord has just shown me who He is by how other people in the Mountaineering community have come alongside me, mentored me. But this particular experience.

I mean, the whole it should not have gone well. It shouldn't have. And like, what did I do to deserve such a gift?

he chose to gift it to me. And I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful. I mean, like I look through pictures, like, I remember that. I remember that. Like, I was in it. And I got to do it with people who I've climbed with in the past in various ways on different mountains. And it truly was a group of friends who...

wanted to challenge themselves, experience what the Lord had, and celebrate that we made a difference in somebody's life, which truly was.

truly was what happened on that climb.

McKenzie Piland (31:35)
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so important what you said about, I think it's so important about what you said about you can be so caught up in the moment and so neurotic. And so, you know, all of the things that you don't actually get to experience what you are doing and you still get, you know, some of that through reflecting, but it's not the same as being present and actually experiencing it. And

Wow, you know, like what you said, what a gift, like to just be able to be fully present and to be fully just taking it all in and having the little nuggets of things that you had been listening to or reading or, you know, all those things just come to you in those moments and be able to soak it in. I think so often we, we don't truly experience much. And so.

man, I just can't imagine how special that moment was. And just being able to experience God, I think so many of us, we study God, we pray to God, we, know, all of these things, but we don't actually get that like experience. And so it's just really sweet.

Rachel Zupke (32:35)
Yeah. Well,

and I think the thing about that is I've watched other people be able to do it for years. I've watched people be in the moment and experience it. I just, I'm like, I don't understand. mean, they're safety oriented. They're doing a good job. They're making good decisions. Why? What is it about me?

that I'm like not putting this together. And there were, sorry, go.

McKenzie Piland (33:09)
Well, I think it's,

I know, I just going to say it. I was going to say it, but you prayed about it. Like you, you asked God like, Hey, I would really love for this, you know? And I think that's like, you went in there with a different level of intentionality. I think even because you prayed about it beforehand.

Rachel Zupke (33:16)
Yes.

Yeah, well, and prayer was such at the forefront of this climb. I say unintentionally, which makes it sound like we didn't pray. But what's what's so funny is, yes, that prayer came out of a gathering of other people who lead hikes and climbs back in March. And every time I do a climb for captives, I recruit someone to pray.

like specifically when, you know, when I think our summit bids gonna be. Cause summit, I call it a summit bid because you're never guaranteed a summit. And, so I've always, I've always done that, but this time I just felt this pull to put to words. Cause I much prefer the written word over the spoken word. Cause I can go back and I can fix it. And, I'm a spreadsheets girl.

And I made a little spreadsheet of prayers that, okay, I am praying these things ahead of time, or I'm praying these things on the mountain, but what if other people were praying with me or for me? But what about, like, it's not just me. And I think that's the thing about being a leader is that's great that...

you want it for yourself, but do you want it for those that are with you? And how do you bring people along? And how do you lead by example? these were not like conscious, I'm gonna lead by example, and I'm gonna ask you to have people pray for you. I'm gonna ask people, I'm gonna ask you to recruit people to pray for you. And not because it makes me look like a good leader, but because I know how beneficial it is to me.

and I know that it will benefit all of us. And it was wild, because I thought everybody would have like two people who would say yes, yeah, I'll do that. And it turned into an email list of 70 people who said, yeah, I want to support this by praying. Like, wait, what? That's amazing. And the reason that we limited it

so Atlas Free, who we fundraise for, there is, one of the people who works for Atlas Free gave me some, not like sensitive, never can be shared info, but info that like, this needs to not end up on the internet quite yet. But with people who are praying for you, with people, you know, on your climb, feel free to share that.

McKenzie Piland (35:45)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel Zupke (35:54)
So it turned into this cute little document that, because I love formatting. when I say I love the like plan and the prep. Yes, and the fonts have to all. I mean, it's it's bad. And. But what was neat is I did 10 days of prayer and it was.

This is a prayer request for this day for climbers and this is a prayer request, pardon me, for this day for Atlas Free. Because that's the heart. Like our priorities when we climb is number one, get home safely. Number two, have raised a bunch of money before our climb. And then the summit is priority three. And so if in that second one, like yes, we raised money, but we're also raising awareness.

how beautiful that for his concentrated amount of time, 70 people were praying over these 10 specific prayer requests regarding what Atlas Free is doing around the world. Like that.

I did not set out to do that. I simply set out to share requests so that people could pray for their climbers. And then God just kept on, here's the one foot in front of the other. Hey, Rachel, why don't you add this piece? Hey, Rachel, why don't you send out a daily email so that it's right in front of people? Hey, this is Tuesday's. These are the two requests for Tuesday. Did you forget Monday? Here's Monday's. You can still pray for those. when I got back to church,

Right after we finished climbing, I was at church the Wednesday night. We had gotten off the mountain Tuesday night and I had three different people. Those emails you sent, that was awesome because I knew exactly what to pray for, when to pray for it. didn't like I couldn't forget. I just I scheduled them all. I just knocked them out, scheduled them, didn't touch them after that. But like God can use schedule send in Gmail.

McKenzie Piland (37:33)
Yeah.

Rachel Zupke (37:45)
I guess.

McKenzie Piland (37:46)
Ain't that true? my goodness.

Rachel Zupke (37:48)
So I just, and I'm not a great prayer. Like I don't actually, that's probably one of the biggest things I struggle with. I prefer to pray via music. I prefer to pray by singing a Psalm, which is probably why I love that song, Psalm 8. That whole Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs album is one of my favorites. That's how I prefer to pray. so to, also for God to slow me down enough,

to, okay, put to words what you need prayer for. How can I lavish my love on you? And for me to even be able to slow down enough to dream about that was so, powerful. And I think the really, really cool thing is there's a gal at our church who's in her, I think she's in her early eighties.

Before she ever got the document, she had written down in her personal prayer journal things that she was praying for for our team. And every single thing that she prayed for, he gave us. And she's never climbed a mountain. She's never gonna climb a mountain.

But she was on our team. She was the ninth person. And I mean, I'm not a name it, claim it, like you can't, like God's not some fairy godmother that you pray to and say, I want this and then you get it. At the same time, the joy that I know it brings him to love us. And sometimes that looks like giving us a perfect weather window.

And sometimes that looks like incredible unity within a team. And we had that. And how would she know to pray that, having never been on a mountain climbing team before? She just, that's what the Lord said. This is what I'd like you to pray for Rachel's team. And I got to tell the team about her and there's, I got some other stories about her about prayer and stuff, but.

McKenzie Piland (39:39)
You

Rachel Zupke (39:40)
when I got to see her and share with her that you do know you're the ninth team member, right? Everyone on the team knows your name. And even just that, that piece, that connection, that family of God.

Like she's just this, I don't have any grandmas left, but to have someone like that who's so engaged and so wants to support me in prayer, like that is what the family of God is for and how he set it up. And I'm like, I get it. Here it is.

McKenzie Piland (40:10)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, so good. Amen to that. We all need those people and the praying grandmas. We all need the praying grandmas.

Okay, Rachel, switching gears into the title of this podcast, My Valley, His Victory, would love for you to share about a valley or a season of wilderness you experienced and just what God maybe taught you or prepared you for in that season.

Rachel Zupke (40:30)
Ooh, I like I already used this up. Oh no!

McKenzie Piland (40:32)
You

Rachel Zupke (40:35)
Gosh, I...

I have always struggled with fear of failure. And my college basketball coach one time, wore these penny loafers with really those like hard souls and he like stamps on the hardwood and you're like shaking to your core because you're like, I hope he's not trying to get my attention. And I vividly remember being at a game and I

I didn't look at the basket. I should have looked at the basket. And he stomped his foot and yelled at me to shoot the ball. And I barely looked and I checked it and it went in. But like that, that moment was when I realized I have a very intense fear of failure.

But I also have a very intense drive for perfection, which is probably why I'm afraid of failure. Because they pretty much go hand in hand. And when I started Mountaineering, I questioned everything. Absolutely everything. I questioned if I was good enough to do something. I questioned why I was doing it. I questioned if I would make good decisions.

This is a spot on a rope. Someone else is better than me can have this spot. Like this is not... I'm taking up someone else's space and I need to not be here. Just a lot of inferiority and imposter syndrome. And this is like just piled on over years. And I mean, don't get me wrong. I work really hard. And when I...

Like that seeking validation is also a component. Like those three things, fear of failure, drive for perfection and seeking validation. Whoa, talk about a mess, right? She needs therapy, yes. I also need Jesus, so I need both. And the mountains are not therapy, the mountains have brought people into my life, or I should say me into their lives to be completely honest.

who have encouraged me, who have bolstered me, who have pushed me forward and in ways that only a brother in Christ, only a sister in Christ, like I said a little earlier about how like you really can't understand it if you haven't been there. And that's the thing about like, I love my husband. He hasn't been in the nitty gritty dark.

scary, steep mountain stuff with me. That doesn't mean that he can't speak into my life, but in some of these specific areas, it's gotta be somebody who's been there. And last year in March, last year in March, I got to go teach an intro to mountaineering course. And it was,

It was kind of last minute. The instructor needed to not teach it. And it was at a Christian adventure camp that my family volunteers at. We like alternate volunteering one summer and attending the next summer. And we just love it. It's called Camp Big Horn. It's out in Western Montana. And they do a gap year program and they do the coolest stuff. Like I wish I was young enough to go to Journey and I'm not, but it's super awesome.

And they use adventure as a way for discipleship. And they needed someone to teach intro and mountaineering. I was like, I can do that. So I was with some of my mountain brothers and sisters right before I left and I started the beginnings of a panic attack. Like literally I could look at my watch and I could see my heart rate going up.

Like, whoa, I'm getting short of breath. Like, what's hap- And I've had a full-blown panic attack before, and it's not fun. And one of my mountain brothers, name's Josh, he looked at me from across the room. were doing a, we were actually writing cards. This is so cool. We were writing cards to people, or to leaders of-

the local partners that Atlas Free supports and thanking them for their tireless work. It was a really cool opportunity to do that, but I couldn't write and then I couldn't breathe. And then I look and I see that my heart rate is climbing and I'm panicking and I don't know why. And he looks at me, he's like, you okay? I'm like, no. And I went outside and I asked him to follow me out.

And another one of my mountain brothers was outside his name's Dan. And I said, I think, well, I know I'm having a panic attack. I can't teach this course. I can't do it. I'm not, and I just spiraled all the I can'ts. I'm not qualified. I'm not this. I'm not that. And these two brothers of mine, not actual brothers, but

Brothers Who back in 2021 said, hey, we're gonna be on Baker for five days and do two separate climbs. You wanna join? Come learn with us. Come see if you really like this the way you think you like it. In 2023, hey, you really should lead a climb this year. You don't need us. You really should lead a climb. And walked me through it ahead of time.

2024, you really should lead a roped climb. Why haven't you led a roped climb yet? Wait, what? It's like, here are very accomplished, very...

safety focused in the mountains and in life men, but who have this focus on the Lord and how people are gifted and can see it and call it out in them. And that's who I'm out on this back porch of this house in San Cadia panicking with.

McKenzie Piland (46:16)
you

Rachel Zupke (46:18)
Dan doesn't even stop grilling burgers. He's just like doing his thing. And I'm like trying to, I'm trying to breathe. But then Josh, I'm like, but Josh, I sent you my outline and I sent you my this and he goes, I literally had no feedback. I had nothing that I needed to correct. You have it all. You're prepared for this. There's a reason God wants you to

go there and there's a reason that like you're feeling like you shouldn't go, like that's not, that's not God.

And so to have someone in that, that was the exact right person for me to be with in that moment. And then all my other like adventure brothers and sisters are right inside. And I go inside after I've calmed down a little bit and they pray, I share what I'm like scared of and they pray for me right then. And I went, had a blast, so fun.

I think I said in my bio, my like big values are challenge, hospitality and like education. I got to do all of that and just really step into how God made me. And I learned how much fun I have doing it. And then this year to now feel confident enough, again, with the encouragement of my mountain brother.

McKenzie Piland (47:38)
.

Rachel Zupke (47:45)
I mean, I would panic text Josh. Are you really sure that I should lead a Rainier crime?

And then he's so funny, because he knows I'm a coach. goes, coaches, we don't really coach ourselves well, do we? I'm like, oh, we know the things, but we don't do that. So really the valley of that fear of failure, that drive for perfection, that looking for validation in the wrong places, to have joined a community of people

who will speak the truth against those things is really the victory that the Lord has given me. then the gift of experiencing said climb just was such a full circle. And it doesn't mean that's my last climb. I don't feel like I've arrived. I always feel like I have learn, which is probably the other thing I love.

McKenzie Piland (48:36)
You

Rachel Zupke (48:41)
is I love the learning piece and the going to the, I go to the stadium, like the public stadium that's open during the day and my kids will play kickball or baseball on the other end. And I will haul around the football sleds with my crevasse rescue setups. I love that. But what I love more, what I love the most is the connection with people who

also desire to be how God made them to be. And that's climbing mountains and that's raising money to fight exploitation and just...

I don't feel the need to walk around and say, did you hear I summited Rainier last week?

I'd rather share the stories of when we're almost to the top and I get on a radio and I say, remember that amazing story of the rescue that just happened on Friday night? Remember how many women were rescued from that particular spot? Count that number for your next number of steps. I love getting to do that. And to be with people who really care about that.

So yeah, I think probably my

McKenzie Piland (49:55)
I love it. that was funny. like, think that, no, I, that's okay. That's okay. No, I feel like you summed that up so good. And just, you know, the, all the feelings of, know, just how you've been, you even started with a story of, you know, just kind of where that came from and how you noticed that at a young age and just how being in a community of people can really.

Rachel Zupke (49:58)
the segue was gone. had another thing, but then I just...

McKenzie Piland (50:19)
can really change all of that. And that's the real victory is just being around people that love the Lord and support you, speak truth in your life and all of that. Man, you summed it all up. I don't even really have any questions for you on that front. I feel like you laid it all out there for us. For me, okay.

Rachel Zupke (50:39)
question for you. When are you going to go climbing?

McKenzie Piland (50:45)
We'll chat after this on the next one, whatever the next one is. But not the one this this year or this. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I like was like, anyways, we'll talk about that afterwards. I'm coming, though. I would, though, you you you shared about this fear of failure, this intense drive for perfection and seeking validation.

Rachel Zupke (50:49)
What?

Not the one I already asked you that you can't do.

McKenzie Piland (51:08)
in, you know, kind of, I would say almost a lot of times what I heard was you're seeking validation in your own doing of like, I can do this thing. I would love for you to just like speak a word of encouragement or, you know, just like practical, practical things for people who maybe are of that same same mindset.

Rachel Zupke (51:31)
I'm still learning so like I have not arrived by any means ⁓ I actually heard It was part of a sermon and I don't remember who said it but he was talking about He was talking about if you don't ever have to look up Like if your goal is not like if your goal is here

McKenzie Piland (51:34)
Hey, that's okay.

Rachel Zupke (51:58)
You're looking right at it. It's at your level. But if you have to look up, like that's the posture God invites us into. And if I'm doing something outside of my capability, I can't strive and achieve it. I have to rely on him. I have to have his help. And that's not to say that the everyday and how I parent,

And I pray a lot when I parent, not gonna lie. That's not to say that in the everyday, there aren't these big goals where you don't need to look to the Lord. But especially for those of us that have these, I mean, I never even had a goal of climbing Rainier to be completely honest. And now I've climbed it twice and led it once. And just that idea of God, what do you have for me?

How do you want me to do my end of the prep?

And then, okay, I've identified what that is. I've done my end of the prep. Okay, Lord, now I'm relying on you for the rest of it. Show me, show me the next step. Because I do think that he wants us to use our talents and our giftings to serve him within our own power to a point. But not forget, A, he's the one who gave it to us.

he wants us to rely on him because when we invite him, when we make the decision to invite him to be part of that, I think that brings him so much joy. And obviously he's gonna be in it no matter what, but whether or not we're willing to acknowledge that we need him, then we acknowledge his role in our

successes and our failures and our in-betweens.

I have experienced that that is what God wants for us. And I've seen it other people's lives, I've seen it in my life. And I'm just, I'm so grateful to be in it. Now that I somewhat understand what it means to experience it.

McKenzie Piland (54:07)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that you said, you know, you have to identify what the goal is. You have to do your part in preparing, but you also have to leave space for God to do, God to do the rest and invite him into that process. And, you know, it's not saying, just trust God and don't prepare. Like, no, we still need to do our part. You know what I mean? But, but we do need to leave, leave room for God to work and to fill the gaps in the places that we can't.

And yeah, it's so good. just think often, you know, I have a, and you are very similar. Our stories are very similar. College athletes, intense fear of failure, seeking validation, all the things. I don't know if I have an intense drive for perfection, but I, because I'm not a perfectionist, I'm just a get it done and it's done. Like, kind of doesn't matter how it gets done. Like.

Sometimes it's just like the fact that it does get done but one thing that I've always said to people because I've failed a lot in my life and I've taken chances I've taken thing like just done things where people are like, how did you you know, whatever and I'm I I just never think I failed I've just figured out something I don't like or I figured out a way it doesn't work or you know, like I've just learned different ways and so You know, it's not

It's not a, oh, you fail and you don't try, try again. It's like, no, I just figured out a way to do it better next time. And, you know, I think, um, that's, it's part of, part of learning anything in life. Like if you don't try, you're never going to learn, you know, kind of deal. So ma'am, man, well, I feel like we could chat all day forever and ever and never.

Rachel Zupke (55:41)
Absolutely.

McKenzie Piland (55:49)
We'll just have to call each other after this. But I would love for you to kind of just leave the listeners with where they can find you, where they can find out more about Climb for Captives and whatever else you want to share in the realm of that.

Rachel Zupke (56:03)
I have two Instagram accounts. One of them is outward facing, so that's probably the best one. And it's at youradventurementor. Just all one thing, no dashes or anything. And that's probably just the best place to go because I have things linked. There is a Climb for Captives Instagram account. It's not super active at the moment.

So I would say just go to youradventurementor. And yeah, that's the easiest way to get ahold of me. can also, you, I guess if you wanted to, you could email me, youradventurementor at gmail.com. And yeah, I would love to talk to you if the mountains, especially climbing them, not looking at them, if the mountains are your gig and you want to...

do something you love to fight something you hate, AKA fundraise to fight trafficking and exploitation. It'd be neat to connect with you. yeah. Okay, side note. You talked about failure being, because I thought of it just now. I found a new way to do something. I love that because I just won't do the thing if I don't.

If I don't think I'll be successful at it, even mildly, I won't even do it. Like, no, wrong attitude, Rachel. Hop in and try it. And the crazy thing about that is, part of Climb for Captives is that you fundraise. And I also have fundraised for Freedom Hikes as well, which is the same thing, but a different activity. And since 2019, I have never not hit a goal.

Fundraising wise, I can't make that happen. That's the Lord. And the fact that people continue to see, you're doing that thing again? Okay, I want to support that again. What?

Really? I mean, and my friend, Krucha, she has shared that somebody donated to her campaign after two years of watching her do it. And the gal literally was like, I just want to see if you're actually committed.

McKenzie Piland (58:11)
my goodness.

Rachel Zupke (58:12)
So anyway,

I share that say even when I'm scared to try something, if I'm like finally obedient and I make the goal a little bigger or I'm finally obedient and I create another fundraising page and somehow God brings people to fill it up and it's just, it's incredible. And it's definitely well out of my power. Cause like I can't fund it.

McKenzie Piland (58:31)
Yeah.

Rachel Zupke (58:38)
So anyway.

McKenzie Piland (58:39)
Yeah,

yeah. Well, thank you, Rachel, so much just for sharing. like I said, feel like I can, we have a lot of the same characteristics. So I know I can relate and I know that other people will too, because I feel like this is something that fear of failure, drive for perfection. seeking validation is so common, especially in today's, today's world that I know that this is going to be beneficial. So I just thank you so much for being here and for sharing. I know that this was a little bit outside of your comfort zone, but I know that God's going to honor it. So thank you so much. And I've had so much fun chatting with you.

Rachel Zupke (59:12)
Thanks for having me.