EP 15 - Why It’s Never Too Late To Follow Your Passions & Do What You Love Doing

In this episode of the Thrive in Construction Podcast, we're thrilled to welcome Amo Sihra, Head of Commercial at Elmhurst Energy, an accreditation body for energy assessors. Amo shares his journey from starting as an energy assessor to leading Elmhurst's commercial department, highlighting the evolving landscape of energy efficiency and the critical role Elmhurst plays in the industry.

Amo shares his insights on the industry's progress from a tick-box exercise to a pivotal force in combating global warming and making the built environment more sustainable. Amo delves into the challenges and triumphs of his role, emphasising the importance of education, quality assurance, and market trends in shaping the energy sector.

Amo discusses the need for both asset and occupancy ratings for effective energy assessments, Elmhurst's role in quality assurance, and the industry's transformation toward sustainability. This episode is not just about the technicalities of energy assessments but also a testament to the industry's impact on global warming and sustainable development.

🕒 Timeline:

0:00 Career Changes in the Energy Industry

4:23 Evolution of Energy Performance Certificates

14:18 Family Influence, Career, and Environmental Impact

21:27 Future Plans and Quality Assurance

27:21 Career Guidance

Elmhurst Energy: https://www.elmhurstenergy.co.uk/

Follow Amo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amo-s-5871b638/

Follow Me: https://darrenevans.komi.io

👉 Tune in to this engaging conversation on the Thrive in Construction Podcast. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more insights into energy efficiency and sustainable development.

🔗 Stay updated and follow our channel for more in-depth discussions on energy and the built environment.

Transcript

Amo Sihra: 0:00

I think it's always difficult to know exactly what you want to do when you're young. I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was 18 and I was going into my degree. But what I would say is just follow your passion. You know, it's not always easy to know what that passion is at a young age. Follow what you think, your passion, but don't be afraid to change later on If you get to a later age in your to do when you're young. So don't be afraid to change into something else if that's what you want to do and what your heart tells you at a later age.

Darren Evans: 0:37

Hello and welcome to the Thriving Construction Podcast. Today we have Ammo with us. Ammo, it's great to have you here on the show. Thanks for your time. Well, thank you for having us, Darren. So I think that there's a couple of people that would know you, that are listening and that are watching this, and there's going to be also some people that don't. But can you just run through who you are?

Amo Sihra: 1:01

and what it is that you do? Yeah, sure. So my name's Amos Sira and I work for a company called Elmos Energy. So Elmos Energy is an accreditation body for energy assessors the UK's largest accreditation scheme for energy professionals. So, yeah, I'm currently working there as a head of commercial, which is, when I say commercial, that doesn't mean the non-domestic sector. Um, that means the sales and marketing side of things. Yeah, I originally started my career as a energy assessor. So just before joining elmas, I used I. I trained up to be a dea and a non-domestic energy assessor. Um, so dea, that's a domestic energy assessor.

Amo Sihra: 1:39

That's the acronym I'll have to apologize for the acronym we use so many in this industry and we're always within the company actually going on about saying we've got to stop using acronyms. So, yeah, please, please, keep, keep jumping in and telling me when I use them. Um, so yeah, I trained up as a domestic energy assessor. I then went into, uh, training up as a non-domestic energy assessor and that's the kind of, I suppose, area I really I really liked. Um, you know the calculations and the way the actual workers involved. It really interested me. So I started my own business, which was doing really well and, as you know yourself, darren, in the early years, I started, going back to 2007 in this industry, but the prices were significantly falling.

Darren Evans: 2:18

It's a very young industry. Is this the prices of how much you would get for doing an assessment on the building? That's right. So how much were they initially? I an assessment that's right, that's right. So how much? How much were they?

Amo Sihra: 2:26

initially, I think initially, you know, for a non-domestic but that's the area I used to mainly specialize in.

Amo Sihra: 2:31

okay, you know, at that time for a retail property, a straightforward one, you'd probably get around 250 pound. Okay, over time that fell to around 95 pound. Okay, it's good to say that we're actually back up to a good level again now. So it's not not at those fees. But at the time I thought, wow, this is, you know, this is a lot more people are getting involved. The demand wasn't there.

Amo Sihra: 2:50

People didn't take the industry as serious going back those years you know, it's obviously changed over time, which we'll talk about and then I saw this job come up with a company called Elmer's Energy, which I didn't know too much involved in the non-domestic sector at the time when I applied for the role. So my plan was always, you know, I've always kind of run my own businesses. So my plan was to join Elmer's Energy, work there as a technical consultant and stay there for around three years and then go back into my own business. But 14 years later I'm still there in the company and that is. You know, it's been a fantastic company to work for. The values have been really great, really professional, really nice people and the opportunities have been there.

Amo Sihra: 3:28

So I started off as a technical consultant, very much on the technical side and you're very well aware of that, darren. I did that for about seven years. I also got involved in the new build side as well, so anything to do with existing dwellings. So my role was very much managing the support teams, uh so attending conventions, technical steering group, those kind of areas. But I suppose the part that really excited me was the business side. Um is running the business, growing the revenue, market share, all those kind of things. So seven years later I applied for the the head of commercial where the opportunity came up was successful and been doing that ever since and, yeah, never looked back.

Darren Evans: 4:05

It's been really good, great, that sounds like quite a ride that you've been on over the last kind of 15 or so years.

Amo Sihra: 4:12

Most certainly. Yeah, darren, you've been involved from early days as well. It's been a rollercoaster ride and, coming back to the point I made, people didn't used to take energy efficiency as serious. Going back, you know, to 2007, it was very new. People seen it as a tick box exercise. But now, with time, I think you know, with the energy crisis and the fuel prices, the way they've gone. I think consumers out there are taking it a lot more seriously. Businesses out there now are taking it more seriously. So it's come a long way and it definitely seems to be a focal point point, which something we've been pushing on for many years. And and just say you know, I almost have been in the business for 30 years. Uh, we've been in this long before regulations came in.

Darren Evans: 4:52

Yeah, yeah I think that's one of the things that I just want to to highlight, I guess, to not just the uk, but to the world, is that we have really been on this journey and where we're at now, in as we record this in 2023. It's not perfect and it's not as good as it could be, yeah. However, when you contrast that with 2007, which was when you and I both entered the industry from from different points of view and and have ended up in different areas, as as we are now in 2023, there has been a seismic shift massively. And when you say that people didn't take it seriously, what did you? You mentioned about tick box exercises. What other things did you see that showed you that this wasn't a thing that people were taking?

Amo Sihra: 5:39

seriously the example, are you? So obviously, our almost energy. We're an accreditation scheme and we we have a lot of energy assessors who produce energy performance certificates Going back to 2007, when the regulations came in. An EPC an energy performance certificate is required for a sale or let or on construction, and at that time, a homeowner, if they were selling a property and they requested an EPC, it was, oh, it's something I need to get done, just to sell the property. They never even probably looked at the EPC. It was, oh, it's something I need to get done, just to sell the property. They never even probably looked at the EPC rating.

Amo Sihra: 6:09

Well, now, you know, many years later, it's actually now become a very focal point. You talked to a lot of the surveyors, the values out there. Well, actually, a lot of consumers now are more interested in what's the EPC rate on this property. You know, okay, it's not going to be the number one thing on their agenda, but if you've got two properties on the same road and they're exactly the same, if one EPC rating is better than the other, then actually they're more likely to go for the one with a better EPC rating, because it costs a lot to live in these properties with the energy crisis, so therefore it's come very much high on the agenda. So it's not any. When I say tick box exercise, someone wouldn't look at it just to sell the product, but now they're actually paying a keen interest. So through our support queries that we get almost we're getting a lot more consumers ringing up asking questions and and trying to find out more about the epc so these are homeowners, right when you say consumers.

Darren Evans: 6:56

So a homeowner will. There's not anything to do with the construction industry or anything to do with energy assessment or anything like that. They'll phone you guys up and say can you help me understand something?

Amo Sihra: 7:07

that's right. Yes, so yeah, that's the example I'm giving is is more from the the end consumer, yeah, um, kind of kind of thing. So, yeah, it's come a long way and, uh, you know, with that, people are taking it a lot more seriously and they want to know a lot more about the epc and therefore the epc tends to get, you know, sometimes it gets a bit of negativity in the publicity and the reason for that is because it's not intended for what the end consumer understands it to be. So what do you mean by that? What I mean by that is the energy performance certificate is an asset rating. So it's it's never there intended to to tell you how you're using the property and how you're occupying that property, you know how many hours you're putting the heating on.

Amo Sihra: 7:45

It's a kind of a benchmark and it works to what assets you have in there. So you know, that's the kind of queries we're getting. Well, actually, I live in this property, but it surely it can't be this rating. Actually, when you explain it, it's not an occupancy rating, it's an asset rating, yeah, um, so you know, education is a big piece and that's what we've been trying to do over the years, is get as much information out there to our members who is a B2B and then hopefully they pass it on to the end consumer and get that message out there.

Darren Evans: 8:11

You touch on a really, really good point there about the difference between an asset rating and a occupancy rating. Can you just kind of talk through the types of things that's included in an asset rating and then and then contrast that with the occupancy rating? Yeah, sure.

Amo Sihra: 8:28

So asset rating is, if you're going out on site doing an epc inspection, you would collect data such as what boilers installed, what lightings within the property, so that kind of you know physical assets that are within the property that make a difference. You put that into the software and then the software kind of bases it on a benchmark and it'll predict everyone uses it in this kind of way, depending on how many habitable rooms you got, and so I won't get too technical, but those kind of kind of areas and then it produces an output, an epc rating. Occupancy is goes into detail how you're actually using that property. You know how many showers you're having in there, how long you're putting the heating on. Are you putting it at 28 degrees rather than 21 degrees?

Amo Sihra: 9:05

Because an asset rating will assume a certain you know degree, uh, for everyone. And it makes sense as well. If you're selling a property, um, you would. You don't want an occupancy rating, because if you're, you're selling that property to me, darren, you might be using it a lot more intensive than I'm going to use this with my, my four kids, right, you've not got that many kids there you go.

Amo Sihra: 9:21

So yeah it wouldn't make sense. So the asset rating is the right way of doing it. However, moving forward, speaking of BFL most energy we've always said it needs a combination of things. You need an asset rating, you need an occupation rating. It needs to look at all the metrics really the cost, the carbon know. It needs to look at all those areas to be really effective. But the good thing is the, the, the home energy modeling consultation came out yesterday. Okay, um, so that's out at the moment. So we are seeing, you know, the kind of things we've always asked for. We we're hearing uh, I've not read the whole consultation in detail yet, but we we've put a little bit of a draft out from elmhurst, but we're hearing, you know, the the epc could be the kind of central calculator and there'll be wrappers put around that where you could then do an occupancy and you could build upon other calculations.

Darren Evans: 10:07

So we'll hear more about that and I think it will be again moving all in the right direction and uh, and continue to, you know, grow and do better so the great thing about this podcast is is we are speaking to the people in the future, so by the time this reaches people's eyes and ears, you're going to be able to to share that. So I'm sure there's going to be a link that will be able to explain the things that you're talking about here. Yeah, for those people in our future, yes, but in everyone else's present, um to be able to understand that better yeah, sure, yeah, absolutely so.

Amo Sihra: 10:39

Yeah, we'll have a uh lots of information on our website and, uh, yeah, we'll be putting a lot more information in the coming weeks. Actually, it's just as I say, it's just been released yesterday hot off the press and I know the marketing team are looking at it, the technical guys are looking at it and we'll be responding that to that consultation. So we always share that with our, with our members and anyone else who wants to see that it'll be on our website. Uh, and all I all I say to everyone is you know, do have a look at it. Anyone involved in the industry in this area, have a look at it and and see our responses. And I do encourage everyone else to also, you know, participate good so 15 years ago you started into this industry.

Darren Evans: 11:14

You look a little bit older than 15 and you mentioned that you you've had businesses in the past, but just interested in going back into your uh, into your history and finding out, how is it that you ended up working not just for elmhurst but just in this, in this industry?

Amo Sihra: 11:31

yeah, I think. So, yeah, I start, I, I'm going back. I mean, I I went for the gcse, the a levels, and then I did a degree in business studies. After my degree, as I said, I went. I was fortunate that we had some family business, so I went into our own business. Okay, what were those businesses doing? So we were in the retail sector. Okay, yeah, we were in the retail sector. So me and my brother continued that my dad ended up retiring. So we carried on, we expanded that, we went into a couple of franchises, okay, and that was doing really well. And then I decided to sell that.

Amo Sihra: 12:00

I think I was about 28 years old, sold the businesses and then I was looking for my next venture and I was always going to go into something like it. The subway was a new trend at the time, so I was going to invest in something like a subway and go into that area. And then the home information packs, all that thing came along the home inspector course, and I saw the energy module in that and I thought, wow, this, this sounds really interesting. And and I'll go back to a point as well I didn't really know what I wanted to do when I was young and when I did my degree so that's why I did a business studies degree, because it left my options very much open and then later on in my life I kind of realized well, actually I really enjoy this part.

Amo Sihra: 12:37

I always like the building surveying or, and this new area that came in, about the energy as well. I found that this is going to be the future and actually I want to be involved. I wanted to be involved in the industry. That makes a difference as well, so I've got a personal impact. So, uh, I kind of thought, yeah, this, I found my place here but, like I said it was, it was very much a roller coaster ride and there was. It's not been easy because people didn't take it seriously. Um, it was going up and down like a yo-yo, the industry and I did. There was times that I thought am I in the right industry? Okay, but I always believe, just keep doing what you enjoy, what you're passionate about. Yeah, and things always come good and I think we're there now.

Darren Evans: 13:13

That's good I want to just go back to early days. You mentioned about your dad having a business. Yeah, is that the business that he had when you were a young child, kind of pre-GCSE?

Amo Sihra: 13:23

years. Yeah, yeah, so my dad was involved in the uh, the knitwear industry at that time. So, yeah, we always used to uh go in and help out, and I think you kind of get that drilled into you at a young age okay, um. So yeah, we used to go there on weekends hiding the little cardboard boxes with all the yarn and everything okay, what did he?

Darren Evans: 13:40

what did he get you doing then? So he got you involved in the business.

Amo Sihra: 13:43

Yeah yeah, so he. We used to go there and we used to kind of see the machines twirling around and and help out with those kind of areas. But at the same time, you know you'd always pick up on business conversations as a youngest, but yeah, I mean, that was that was in the 80s.

Amo Sihra: 13:55

and then, uh, we know, in the 80s there was a big recession and then the all of the knitwear industry, which used to be really big in Leicester, it kind of fell down and then started getting, I think it more started getting outsourced to different countries. Okay, so, yeah, he finished off and then, yeah, that's when we then decided let's go into some retail business which worked out well for us.

Darren Evans: 14:16

That's really, really good. And how did your mum feature within that? That? Was she part of the business or, yes, did she have another?

Amo Sihra: 14:23

role? Yeah, very much so. So my mum and dad have always worked together, okay, and they've had a very, very close relationship, you know, in business and and so it's, yeah, they've worked together and uh, yeah, they both were involved in that business.

Darren Evans: 14:35

Yeah, and, as you think about that, you know your childhood and, yeah, your parents being closely connected at work as well as at home. It seems like that there would have been harmony there, because it you're not talking about it in a negative connotation, but how would you say that that that environment has has benefited you and helped you?

Amo Sihra: 14:55

yeah, definitely. Harmony? Yeah, definitely, I think it's. Uh, yeah, I mean it's to be honest, it's not always obvious how it's benefited you. Yeah, you know, I think I'd like to say I've turned out to be a good person with good values, and that comes back to the point I made about me finding the right place at LMS Energy as well as a company with good values, and hopefully that also, you know, our members experience that as well. So, yeah, I think it's just brought me up to be a good individual with good values and, you know, geared me up, I suppose successfully, in the areas I want to be involved in. So, yeah, I've been very lucky in that sense.

Darren Evans: 15:30

Who has been a significant role model for you in your life.

Amo Sihra: 15:36

There was always a teacher at college, actually, who was my accounts teacher, and I always planned to be an accountant as well, going back many years and and he played quite a big role and and, uh, you know he, he was, he's an inspiration and, uh, I was quite powerful on the financial side because of him and also picked up a lot of other key skill sets as well. So I wouldn't say there's one particular individual, but there's been lots of people within my you know, my life or career that I've have had that influence. So there's been people, uh, within the family, there's been people managers that I've worked with as I've been growing, and there's been people in being involved in business. So I think it's picking up things from from lots of individuals. Um, and more recently, it's been Jurgen Klopp.

Darren Evans: 16:18

I think he's a great manager, do you know he's been very successful, not just in England, but he's also been extremely successful in Germany as well, isn't he? Yeah, very much so. What is it about his management style that you like? He's a broad, smiling, very tall man.

Amo Sihra: 16:35

All I can say, darren, is I very much want the Jürgen Klopp hug At the end of the game, when he goes around giving everyone a hug. I think he's got so much energy, so much power. But I think, look, he's very clear in his mind, his vision, what he wants. I think he's very clear. He makes that clear to the whole team, the whole business, and at the same time, he follows through with passion and he also gives a lot of love to everyone as well. I think the management days, you know, you go back looking at some of the management that used to be very strict, very harsh, and that's all out the window now. It's very much about giving a hug and, you know, following through with your passion and giving a clear vision. And I think he's got all those traits. But he's not the only one. You know there's been lots, lots of lots of successful managers who follow good styles, you know, and it's got to be work for the, the business.

Darren Evans: 17:26

Yeah so does that? Does that flow into your management style?

Amo Sihra: 17:30

I'd like to think so. Yeah, I'd like to think so. Yeah, my team might say another thing, but yeah, what would your team?

Darren Evans: 17:36

say then what do you think they would say they're gonna be, they're gonna be listening and watching this.

Amo Sihra: 17:40

Probably you'd have to ask them that question. Do they get the Jurgen hug? No, they don't get the hug. Coming back to my childhood as well, I think my parents. One of the things never was really a big hug at those. Like I said, it was a different generation, different time.

Amo Sihra: 17:54

It was more about you still can do better, okay, whereas I think with time now, in the recent generation, it's more about everyone's giving more of a hug and going down that management style. So, yeah, I mean I'm an easygoing person and I think I like to be part of the team. That's the key thing is be part of that team and make sure everyone's happy really, and it's making sure you get the best out of people. That's the key thing.

Darren Evans: 18:18

It's making sure you get the best and everyone's happy, so talk to me about the things that elmhurst are doing, or that you're doing in your role, to have a positive impact on the built environment so almost energy.

Amo Sihra: 18:30

As I said, we're an accreditation scheme, um, primarily for energy assessors, um, and I'll say energy professionals. We've got retrofit assessors, retrofit coordinator. We also have a lot of competency schemes, so we train a lot of energy assessors. They then accredit with us and then part of that accreditation is we quality assure as well, make sure the product is good and people are doing the correct job. So in my role, I'm head of commercial, so I look after the sales and marketing. So it's growing a business. But at the same time I still pay good attention to the technical side, because that's very important. But we contribute positively towards Global warming sustainability, making the environment a better place, because it helps with reducing carbon emissions. The more energy performance certificates out there, the more people act on the recommendations that are provided. Then it's only doing good for the industry and making a better future for everyone. So it's a really positive impact and, as I said, it's why I really enjoy being in this industry.

Amo Sihra: 19:34

What is it that you hope for the future for the industry? I would hope it continues to go in the way it's going and it's come a long way and I just want people to take it seriously and continue to educate and listen, and I think it is. I think it's exactly heading in that direction and it's kind of a lot more people are interested in this area. But overall, I just want a better future for the generations to come. Really, it's making sure it's safer, cleaner and better. Really, you look around with all these natural disasters happening around the world at the moment. Well, a lot of it's global warming. All the flooding storms, all these natural disasters, it's global warming. You know all the flooding storms, all these natural disasters, it's global warming. So I just, you know, would like people to take it more serious and and help in any way they can to make sure we all have a positive impact on on the environment and going back now to um, your childhood, or maybe someone that is below the age of 18 that may be listening or watching.

Darren Evans: 20:35

What would you say to them as they're considering their career options and choices?

Amo Sihra: 20:41

I think it's always difficult to know exactly what you want to do when you're young. I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was, when I was 18 and I was going into my degree. But what I would say is just follow your passion. You know, it's not always easy to know what that passion is at a young age. Follow what you think your passion, but don't be afraid to change later on. If you get to a later age, in your 30s, and you're going for a certain career and you find there's something else, don't ever tell yourself oh, it's too late. I've started this now. It's never too late to do what you love doing. That's what I would say.

Darren Evans: 21:20

You know, you don't always's what you want to do and what your heart tells you at a later age, and it sounds like that's what you've experienced, yeah, through through your own journey as well.

Amo Sihra: 21:25

That's right, yeah, yeah, so, uh, passing that experience on. Where do you see your future?

Darren Evans: 21:28

personally, I'm in bahamas, um well a warmer climate than uh, than london future.

Amo Sihra: 21:34

I mean, I see a good future in work. I see a good future and work-wise, I see a good future at Elmer's Energy. I want to continue to work in the area I'm working, so that's absolutely key for me. And also, you know, just, I think, just making that positive impact, a personal impact on what we're doing here in terms of sustainability and the environment and tackling fuel poverty, those kind of areas. I just want to make a personal impact. So I'd like to see I continue to develop and have a good career within Elmhurst and, at the same time, make a good, positive you know, personal impact out there and, at the same time, a good father. How?

Darren Evans: 22:08

many children do you have Two girls, two girls. What would you say the best thing is about being a father of two girls for you.

Amo Sihra: 22:15

Best. Thing.

Amo Sihra: 22:16

I mean look, the best thing is, you know they're not so young now. So my daughter's 19 years older than 16. So I think the best thing about a father is just kind of having that experience with them, seeing them grow up from what they are when they're young to what they become when they're older, and just being there to support them and help them. That's the best thing about being a father really, in my opinion. Do they know what you do for a living as in? Do they understand really what it is? I think I've told them about 50 times and they still end up telling their friends something else like, oh yeah, he sells houses. No, I don't sell. So, yeah, they're getting, they're kind of getting there. So, uh, they they kind of understand. And uh, I mean, I've tried to get them involved in this industry but they, they don't want any of it. They want to go towards different areas and different things. But uh, who knows, they may change their mind.

Darren Evans: 23:07

That's good well, I think that now is a really good time for us to go to the demolition zone. Okay, are you ready?

Amo Sihra: 23:14

I'm ready, let's do it, let's go okay, we are back.

Darren Evans: 23:21

We are now in the demolition zone and ammo. It looks like what you have created here for those people that are listening um is an upside down t, but it does have a um, a roof on it, of sorts. Interesting choice of uh, of blocks. I like that, I like the uh, I like the color diversity there what does this represent?

Amo Sihra: 23:43

I don't know, darren. I just put it together without thinking, and it turned out to be a new grand designs house there there you go. So I think you should take a photo of it, send it to grand designs and and I think someone will take that, build that, build that. So, uh, yeah, I, like I said, it's the unconscious mind taking care of that one great.

Darren Evans: 23:59

Yeah, love it. What does it represent, though? What myth does that represent?

Amo Sihra: 24:02

so the myth is that we're. You know elmast energy we're involved in. I mentioned you know we. We do auditing for for energy, when energy assessors produce energy performance certificates, for example, and the myth is we are, you know. Auditing is not telling you off. Auditing is quality assurance and, if anything, it costs us hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to make sure we offer a great service. The way I see this is a great customer service because we are helping our customers make a better product and we're doing that without any additional costs, not telling you off. It's creating a better product and helping our members love that fantastic well, just destroy that myth.

Darren Evans: 24:40

Ammo with a with a left, with a left, jab, left jab the myth, like mike tyson style that's great.

Darren Evans: 24:50

Yeah, I love that just kind of bringing up on that point of um, of quality. That has an attachment, I think, to meaning, which, which also is connected to value. Yes, um, and when something isn't done to the right standard or doesn't have any value or doesn't have any meaning, it's really difficult for us to know why is we're even bothered about it in the first place. Exactly, um, so I think that's, I think that's super important very much.

Amo Sihra: 25:19

So yeah, I mean it comes back to you know, when I go back to when we were in this industry initially the tick box exercise there were people in the industry who didn't take it as serious and did see auditing as oh, it's just telling you off, and therefore I'll try and go somewhere where I can get off lightly. Well, elmas, we've always stuck to quality and, if anything, we're now winning more customers because we stuck to quality and it has all, as you say, all been about value and the way to understand it as well. It makes a better product and if you make a good product, the product will be there to stay, and if that product isn't good, then it won't stay. So I think it's really important that it continues and people see it as that customer service value already.

Darren Evans: 25:59

It sounds as though it's been a significant I don't know if battle is too strong of a word, but a significant battle that you've had with this auditing process is trying to help people understand that we're here to help you raise your standards. And in helping you raise your standards, and in helping you raise your standards, that means you can do more, do better. Yes, and it's got, it's going to have more impact yeah, definitely, I mean, you said it perfectly.

Amo Sihra: 26:23

Um well, there is all about helping our members. It's we're working with you, not against you is the key phrase. What we always say uh and 100%. You just summed it up there, darren it it's all about helping to deliver that better quality Good.

Darren Evans: 26:37

So, just as a concluding remark, I'm just wondering what there is in your mind that you could give to the listeners and the viewers of this podcast that could make a difference, not just to their life, but to the environment and the construction environment, and what I would say is I think, anything you do, I would always say, do it the best you can and do it with passion.

Amo Sihra: 27:02

You know that's the advice I give. You know you do something the best you can, you will. You will really enjoy that experience and at the same time, it makes a difference. Um, and that's that's the advice I give, and it's what I always tell my daughters as well. Whatever you do, do it well and do something you enjoy. I think that's great advice, Hammo.

Darren Evans: 27:19

Thank you. I think that's great advice. I've loved having you on this podcast today. I really appreciate your time in learning from you, from your wisdom, from your stories and thanks very much.

Amo Sihra: 27:31

Thank you, Darren. Really appreciate your invite and having us here today. Thank you.

Darren Evans: 27:44

I'd like you to do me a favour, and I don't mean here just to ask you to subscribe and to follow, but what I'd really like you to do is to share this podcast with as many people as you think would benefit from it. I would love to maintain the quality of people that are joining me on this podcast, and so, in order for me to do that, I really need your help. It could be somebody that's looking to get into an industry, but they're not quite sure what industry they want to get into. Maybe it's a teenager that is just finishing their GCSEs or starting A-levels. Maybe it's somebody that's doing an English degree at university, but is not quite sure what they want to do with that degree. So I invite you just to share this podcast with as many people that you know so that we can grow this community, so that we can maintain the quality, engaging conversations that we're having together. Thank you for your help.