Thrive In Construction with Darren Evans
'Thrive in Construction' is the only podcast that delves into the personal journeys of sustainability leaders and innovators in the construction industry across the UK. Our show differentiates by offering unscripted, passion-fueled conversations that go beyond the buzzwords to the heart of what's driving the industry forward. It's tailored for aspiring professionals, seasoned experts, and anyone with a keen interest in the sustainable evolution of construction. We're here at a time when the call for sustainable development is not just a trend, but a societal imperative, empowering listeners to build a career that contributes to a greener future.
Thrive In Construction with Darren Evans
Ep. 41 Closing the Skills Gap in the Construction Industry | Youth Build Insights
This week on Thrive in Construction, Darren sits down with Shenazz Chenia to explore her transformative work with Youth Build, an organisation empowering young people to launch their careers in construction. Youth Build is bridging the skills gap in the construction industry by giving young people the tools to overcome employment barriers, access opportunities, and shape their futures.
In this episode, Shenazz shares essential insights into supporting young adults facing mental health challenges, the biggest hurdles young people face when entering the construction industry, and how businesses can engage in Youth Build initiatives to create a lasting impact.
From growing up in rural Zimbabwe to a successful finance career, and now her pivotal work with Youth Build, Shenazz’s journey is inspiring. Her story and mission make this conversation a must-watch for anyone interested in the construction industry or in helping young people build fulfilling, sustainable careers in construction.
Subscribe to Thrive in Construction for more inspiring stories and advice on building a successful career in construction.
LINKS
Follow Shenazz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shenaaz-chenia-875b975/
Follow Darren: https://darrenevans.komi.io/
Youth Build: https://www.ybuk.org/
So what is YouthBuild then? Let's go back to the origins.
Shenazz Chenia:So YouthBuild is a global NGO now. It started over 45 years ago in East Harlem, new York, really, where our founder was working with young people on the streets of East Harlem and she recognized that she could help them into work. But soon after they were out again, which is a pattern we see everywhere, right? So she asked them well, what would you want me to do if I could do anything to support you into sustained employment? And they said, which was really profound, actually, they said we'd like to rebuild these derelict buildings and turn them into affordable housing, because we don't have safe homes, right?
Shenazz Chenia:And then what she did then kind of shaped who YouthBuild is today and she said, great, make it happen. You know, like she did then kind of shape who YouthBuild is today and she said, great, make it happen. You know, like, make it happen because she recognized that they wanted to make a change and she recognized there was a role for her to play to get them to lead it rather than just make it happen for them. So she got them to lead it and in that and through that process, obviously gave them the skill set, trained them up on the construction skills they needed to do it. And that's where YouthBuild was born.
Shenazz Chenia:So it was very much around giving young people the skill set but also the mindset to lead, and that was over 45 years ago. We're now in 20 countries across the world and the UK is probably still the youngest of those and I came across it in South Africa just a week or two before I left. From a finance perspective, I had to look at the budgets etc for the YouthBuild Academy that Sangoban was partnering with, yeah, and met the team there and sort of said look, I'm moving into a new role to do with training. Let's talk about the UK.
Darren Evans:So you actually, when you were working for Sangoban, bought YouthBuild across to the UK.
Shenazz Chenia:Yeah, I founded YouthBuild in the UK so I mean I just loved the model. It was around, you know, giving young people the agency to change their own lives, so just love that. But equally it was very much demand led and brought industry into the delivery so that what was created and what was delivered was fit for purpose, was, you know, to the quality standards industry needed etc.
Darren Evans:So what's the size of it in the UK now?
Shenazz Chenia:We're still, fairly, we're still local in london, so we run two, two sites in london. Last year we trained around 400 young people um, but into construction, I would say about 100 a year and where else are you training people if it's not in just in construction?
Shenazz Chenia:so we have a program which is slightly shorter, which is more around just getting young people ready for work, so having many more options available to them. So typically digital retail, hospitality and construction. Our construction program is very intensive. It's 13 weeks and 13 weeks of them turning up every day. But this program is a six to seven week program which is really around exploring what the barriers they may face to long term employment are and helping them to overcome those, but then also exploring what career options they want to actually take and what pathways they'd like. So it's a lot more general and then we specialize on the construction side.
Darren Evans:What would you say is the differences that exist in this country for youth getting into employment and having what you've mentioned? Is that agency, that ability to do what they want, versus what it is in Harlem in the US?
Shenazz Chenia:Surprisingly, the similarities are much larger than the differences. I think what I mean. I guess the similarities are the fact that young people don't have networks to access employment. Young people don't often believe in themselves or believe that those opportunities are even available to them. That young people don't.
Shenazz Chenia:Yeah they don't have the right level of support to help them overcome some of the barriers they face. Because often we think about training in terms of skills and we're not always thinking about them as a holistic person and their life and what might be going on beneath the surface. That needs to be addressed before they can stay in work and that's why we see this pattern of them going in and out. But in terms of differences, I guess they're significant differences in the sense of in the US you need to join a union before you move into construction. To join the union you need to have a GED, so a high school diploma. So a youth-built program in the US is a year long to help them get that high school diploma, whereas in the UK the barriers to entry are much lower.
Shenazz Chenia:You know, anyone can go into construction as long as they've got the right attitude and they want to work hard, work hard and just sort of build a career for themselves, that the opportunities are there. So that's a big difference and I would say I think I don't know, I just feel I feel there are a lot of similarities, but I do feel that, yeah, we have less hoops to jump through in the UK, you know, for young people to get through Not in the sense that young people face less barriers they are definitely very similar to elsewhere in the world and our programs need to really help and address that but in terms of the industry itself, apart from getting the right card to work on site, you know, there isn't much more that a young person needs to have apart from the mindset.
Darren Evans:It's interesting that you mentioned about networks and I was reflecting on this myself. You know, growing up I was. I was brought up in a very deprived part of Bristol yeah and my networks were really, really narrow.
Darren Evans:Yeah, I didn't have anybody at all that's connected to the construction industry, especially outside of the. You know, putting one block on top of another or building a actual construction, if you look at designers or marketers or HR, any of those other types of things that are connected. You know, not a chance did I have of connecting in that area. But one thing I did have is a is a stable home with a, with a mum that was Darren, you can do anything. Yeah, so I did have that belief that I could do anything, but I just didn't know what I didn't know.
Shenazz Chenia:Sure, of course, and I think that's really important because you can have. You know, if you don't have the network, that's one thing, but on top of that, if you don't have the support at home or the encouragement at home or people who actually even know how to build up your confidence, you know, because often we're working with young people who are carers in their home, who are the most responsible person in that home, you know, or young people who don't have that encouragement or who might not come from a stable family. There definitely are a lot of young people we work with that have encouraging parents, but, again, it's educating the parents in terms of opportunities and options for them. So, yeah, it's a different world out there.
Darren Evans:So how would someone come across YouthBuild if I was a young person, Say I was 15, 16 years old? I'm a carer. You know mum is doing whatever, dad's doing whatever, but I'm caring. How would I come across you?
Shenazz Chenia:Yeah, so we work with. I mean, one of our principles is really to embed ourselves in the communities we work. You know that we are very much connected at a very grassroots level. We really get to understand the needs because they're different from community to community. So I would say, you know we're very connected to all the service providers in an area. So one way would be through that we get referrals through those routes.
Darren Evans:But alternatively, you know, just reach out, yeah, yeah so those um those service providers, you talking kind of government like social services? Are you talking schools? Are you talking youth clubs?
Shenazz Chenia:the whole range. So whether it's youth offending teams, whether it's um, dwp, you know, in terms of job centers, um care, leaving teams, etc. So, yeah, all the local, local um authority services that are out there, but also private um and third sort of third party services that are out there, but also private and sort of third-party services that are out there as well. So we try to work with third-sector partners, charities that are working frontline with young people. We try to work with government and their facilities for young people, etc. But also just reach out through housing associations. We often begin with the housing association because it's their residents we'll be helping. So, yeah, I think outreach is really, really important because our goal is to reach as many young people as we can, because we know that once we can get them to commit to working with us, we can help them.
Darren Evans:Why do they work with you?
Shenazz Chenia:So often they come to us because they have to, which is, you know, it's a reality which we can't hide from.
Shenazz Chenia:They come to us because their work coach says they've got to do some sort of training, etc. But you know why they work with us and stay with us, I believe, is because we genuinely care for them. Our teams on the ground are working with them with genuine love and care for their future and they see that instantly. I feel that they also will recognize that we see each one of them as an individual. You know, we're not about boxing people into groups or looking at them as a whole. We really are about meeting each individual where they're at and understanding their own journey and understanding where they want to get to.
Shenazz Chenia:So I think the uniqueness of what we offer is that it is very much about each individual that comes through our doors and each one of those journey will look slightly different whilst they go through the same course. But also, and very importantly, they build community very quickly at YouthBuild. A big part of YouthBuild is community and helping young people connect with their communities but also with each other. So they instantly start to build that support network amongst themselves and amongst the the team around them what types of things do you do to foster that community?
Shenazz Chenia:oh, so many things I mean. Uh, the first thing is just, um, like I said, meeting each individual where they are. So, you know, building trust initially. You know, the minute they walk in our door, we celebrate them, we, we clap them in because they've made a step through which, you know, it's a big thing. It's a big thing to make a decision to turn up at nine o'clock, you know, on a monday morning or tuesday morning, to come.
Darren Evans:what are those reactions like? Because I can imagine that you would get some quite extreme in both ends. One embarrassment, one of like yes, I've been recognized. There's a lot 100%, 100%.
Shenazz Chenia:There are different reactions to it and I think almost it's just unexpected. But instantly after that we all sit in a circle together.
Darren Evans:Okay.
Shenazz Chenia:Right and we introduce ourselves, each one of us an equal, you know, just saying who we are, but also how we're feeling that day one word to describe how we're feeling. So it just helps people recognize that this is a place where we will be heard, where our voice will matter. You know, we're in this circle of trust and that circle of trust continues throughout the program. We have that every morning, really as a means to reconnect and for staff to check in. But also, you know, there's a lot of intentional creativity throughout the program which really helps build that community. So we're developing young people to build the competencies that will enable them to lead in, whatever that means to them.
Shenazz Chenia:You know so, whether that's being a good listener or team player or communicator, but also whether that's about managing your emotions, managing your finances. You know resilience as far as sort of nutrition and hygiene and being able to cook for yourself. So all of these things are really looking at the person as a whole, but also how they interact with those around them. And we have what we call mental toughness at YouthBuild, which is prior to them joining the program. So it's like a pre-selection, but more importantly, it's a chance for them to see whether this is for them and whether they're willing to make that commitment. So I think that is where a lot of that community is built, because mental toughness is about team building. It is about social interactions and just taking people out of their comfort zones without them even realizing it.
Darren Evans:What types of businesses do you work with that open up job positions and give these young people employment that you've been working with?
Shenazz Chenia:Yeah, so a whole range. I mean, you know, from construction SMEs to tier one contractors that have social value commitments in local areas, to tier one contractors that have social value commitments in local areas. So a whole range of partners that we've been working with throughout the years, because one thing we promised at YouthBuild is we wouldn't put a young person in front of a partner, an employer, if we didn't feel they were ready for it. Obviously, we can never guarantee that, but we go through quite a rigorous process of supporting the young person to be ready for the world of work, but also then checking in with them to see that they are, you know. So we've got a strong network of partners, but obviously never enough to take on all the young people that we'd like.
Shenazz Chenia:So, yeah, from tier ones right through the chain, like I said, housing associations, developers, clients who may have. So one of the examples is we work with Peabody, who are the major landowners in Thamesmead, which is where one of our sites are. So through them we work with their supply chain. You know anyone that is part of that development. They've got a 40-year well, it's not 40 years now, but there was a 40-year regeneration programme for the area and their priority was really that local young people get access to those jobs, and we were able to then help them with that by reaching people locally and training them to be able to access the work.
Darren Evans:So if you were to pitch to somebody that's got a business in an area that you cover that currently isn't connected with YouthBuild, what would you say? Build, what would. What would you say, what would your pitch be to them?
Shenazz Chenia:I mean I would. I would say that you know, we know that there's a profound skill shortage in construction, but equally we know that there's one in eight young people that are out of work and out of education, right. So what we offer is that intersection between the two and and the reassurance to a construction employer is that we work very hard on both the mindset and the skill set for young people, so that we're working to get them ready for the world of work of construction. We're working to get them to really understand what that means, but not through ourselves, but through employers' eyes. And we have a lot of opportunity for employers to come in and engage with sessions and enrich the learning of the young people. We have opportunity for employers to offer them site visits and take them out to actually see what the world of work is like.
Shenazz Chenia:So it's a very realistic view of what construction entails, what the culture of the industry is like, etc. Because they're hearing it straight from young people, et cetera. Because they're hearing it straight from young people. So what we can offer an employer is that we've taken them through. You know, we intensely invest in each individual so that they're more ready for the world of work One, because we want the individuals to succeed, we want them to transform their lives and we want them to stay in work and not just get a job but actually build a career. But equally, we understand that the only way for us to achieve that in the long term is to build credibility with employers, you know. So actually making making sure that the ambassadors we send out there are representing the young people of the future, so that the employers come back for more.
Darren Evans:How is it that you go from finance to where you are at the moment? I'm wondering what what childhood was like for you and and like for you, and where this has come from.
Shenazz Chenia:It's not that complex a question because it comes from my dad. You know. We were a family of four girls and one boy. We lived in a very rural part of Zambia and my father left his own education at the age of about 14 to then work and put his younger siblings through. So for him, he understood firsthand the value of education and put us through the best he could offer us. You know, all of us went abroad. We had a very, very fortunate, a lot of support from our dad in terms of our own education and for him, you know, despite all the challenges he faced from family and friends around, why are you educating your daughters? Why are you sending them abroad? He stood by his belief that it was as important or more important to educate us than it was anyone else.
Shenazz Chenia:And I just know from throughout my life that my dad you know he was always a sounding board for any choices I had to make. He, you know, although he didn't open up as many networks to me because he didn't have them from a work perspective he was in a very different field he definitely gave me the confidence I needed to go and pursue that myself. And I think I just realized throughout my life because of living in rural Zambia, that it was a real privilege and it was something I didn't take for granted, you know, and recognizing that around me there were women, particularly girls, and that we're just never given these options and simply in those parts of the world, because they were female, you know, the sons would be sent to university or the sons would be sent to high school because obviously at that point you had to pay. The choice was always that the women wouldn't pursue that, you know. So for me it was. This injustice was brewing in me.
Shenazz Chenia:From a young age, I did a lot of work with my dad.
Shenazz Chenia:He was in politics at the time.
Shenazz Chenia:I did a lot of work with him to try and promote equality through education in everything you know he did, and throughout my life it was something I worked with in the background, you know, despite being in finance, I did a lot of work with young young people in Zambia, did did work with young women, particularly in Zambia, to help them into tertiary education, because I felt like there was a lot in place to help young people through school in terms of other charities and other support, but it was that next step to really excel and build a career that wasn't always there.
Shenazz Chenia:And so when it came to the, when I was coming to the end of my career in South Africa with Sangoban and we had made a decision to move back to the UK for family reasons, I yeah, I just thought I'd pursue my real purpose in terms of supporting underserved communities and helping you know just this feeling that everybody deserves a good day at work, right, and everybody deserves choice and not everyone has it, because sometimes you're a victim of your circumstances and getting beyond that is not so easy without the right support. Yeah, and Sangoban was incredible. They supported the journey.
Darren Evans:So it sounds like you're actually fulfilling or working on your passion at the moment.
Shenazz Chenia:Oh yeah, 100%. I mean, nothing drives me more than seeing, you know, the transformation in a young person's life. I think it's like I said, it's just recognizing that you can form those networks for them. You can help them overcome the barriers that they face. Networks for them, you can help them overcome the barriers that they face. And you know, we see, we see the most loyal employees come out of young people that have come through programs right, young people that are really willing to work hard for you and willing to recognize that you've given them that chance and that choice. So yeah, definitely it. It's what wakes me up every day and what's the future for youth build future for youth build is, you know.
Shenazz Chenia:you know we've run a great program. We know we do. Our success rate is huge. We're placing at least 75% of the young people into work after a program within a month or so of program. So the future of YouthBuild is just doing a lot more of what we're doing. So, you know, building more partnerships across the country to enable us to reach more young people. That's the goal, and just broadening our net in terms of what we actually do to support young people.
Darren Evans:So what do you need from that? I'm just thinking if there's someone that's listening to this podcast at the moment saying I've Googled youth build and I love what you're doing. How can they facilitate what would you need? Who do you need to help facilitate your growth plans and your ambitions?
Shenazz Chenia:So it's quite simple in our world, I think you know, we have proof of concept, we're ready to scale, we're looking for the right partners who share our ethos in terms of a genuine belief in high aspirations of young people. Belief in high aspirations of young people, you know, a belief that there isn't a limitation to what they can achieve, and a belief that you know they deserve a bright future basically. So that that's the first thing. Just, you know that love and care for young people in terms of partnerships. But then obviously it goes without saying that the funding element is a big part of it too.
Shenazz Chenia:So you know, working with partners or local authorities or government that are willing to fund our work because they know it works, you know, I mean, in the US, youthbuild, you know, after 22 years of operation, is now government funded. You know there is a YouthBuild Act in Congress and there's a YouthBuild grant that partners can apply for and to run a YouthBuild program. And I mean, ultimately, in the UK we recognize that, yeah, we just want to get out there and reach young people, but but really through partners that are based in local areas. We're not, we're not necessarily looking to go and set up ourselves in every area around the country, but really to to work with partners to enable them to deliver the youth bill program so you're looking for other people in other areas of the country?
Darren Evans:to come and say hey, we'd like to set up my own version. Yeah, and what does that look like? What? What process would someone need to go through to to do that?
Shenazz Chenia:um, just a conversation with us really, and I think we would then work through a process together of determining what the need is because, like I said, we never assume that we know what a local area requires and what the young people in that area require. So typically what we would do is really try to bring young people from that area together to understand what their needs are and what the current provision is providing where, where there may be gaps, if any, but then also bring community partners together to understand what that collaboration might look like. Like I said before, it's very important that YouthBuild is embedded in the community. So really understanding what all the stakeholders require and, lastly, ensuring there is a pipeline of employment which is critical to its success, because we're not about training young people for the sake of it, it's really about sustained livelihoods. So bringing employers around the table to really understand what that pipeline looks like, what the training should look like, and co-designing with young people, communities and employers what youth-built program should look like in that area.
Darren Evans:That's good, and you mentioned that you've got 75% of people placed into work. What about those other 15% that don't quite make it? What happens to them?
Shenazz Chenia:Really good question. So about three years ago now we launched a social enterprise called Youth Builders really to address that. Because what we realized is, you know, we make a promise to young people that we want Youth Build to be the last intervention that they would require and we really stand by that. We want young people to come through a program and continue to be supported by us or move into employment and continue to get that in-work support. But we recognize that once we begin another program it's quite difficult to provide the level of support that those people still need to then move into work. So we launched Youth Builders, which is a social enterprise that works with our housing partners to get on normal supplier terms their contracts to turn around their void properties, for example, and through that we employ the young people that haven't gone into work but use the opportunity to continue coaching them and developing them until they're ready for to transition into employment. So Youth Builders kind of helps us with those that haven't directly moved in One because they don't feel they don't feel they've not achieved at the end of program because they're still going into work, they're still being paid, because what we wouldn't want is that they come to the end and some have gone into work and others haven't, and they're feeling disheartened by that process. So we really try to I mean, obviously we're not able to take everyone on to Youth Builders, but we try to do what we can and that support. And you know, their journey continues within an employed space where they then move on to permanent employment.
Shenazz Chenia:But also it's just about understanding, like I said, each one is an individual. So why are they not? Why have they not moved into work? Is it a choice? Is it family? You know, we've had young people who might have had to be taken, might have been taking care of a parent, for example, who's ill. So whilst they were really great and got into jobs, they couldn't maintain them. So it's understanding each individual and understanding that actually we need to, we need to tailor their plan after youth build graduation so that we help them into work. And, you know, even if it takes a year after, we're still there for them.
Shenazz Chenia:Yeah, but I think what's very important for us is that we can't do this alone. You know it is about. It is a collective. It is about a collective with a young person at the heart of it. You know, and how we, how we bring together all the right partners to extend our circle of control, because we're not able to provide a young person with everything that they need all the time, you know, whether that's in the workplace or actually getting employers on board that are willing to continue that support for young people once they're in work, you know, because I think there's nothing worse than us supporting a young person into work and all that support just falls away once they're there and we understand it.
Shenazz Chenia:I mean, you know contractors are not there to continue the level of support we have, but I think it's just. It's just the mindset shift in terms of young people require a different level of support today, you know, than we might have many, many years ago and and that whole concept of it's always been done this, this way, doesn't always work. Now, you know you've got to understand your audience and who you're working with. So I think you know it's a whole collection of community partners that are coming together to support a young person, teams within youth build that are that are genuinely dedicated to this young person, but equally employers after who are willing to continue that support yeah, what would you say that the major barriers are that exist for young people at the moment To move into employment, to move into employment, and maybe I would extend the question as well, just to say to challenges, challenges that exist now for young people, but that didn't when you were younger.
Shenazz Chenia:Yeah, yeah, I think I mean a lot of them probably existed, you know, in the past. But I would say mental health is a really big one. And then, like I mentioned before, that access to a network, you know, and also just the educational process. You know, a lot of young people we work with have either left school or didn't succeed in a formal educational environment because there isn't the time within there to really tailor the learning to what the needs are of each young person. So I think that that also is a challenge and just societal challenges that we know young people face today. So crime, you know risk, you know poverty. Crime, you know risk, you know poverty, the general challenges that we know are a big part of our society today. Right, and I think for young people today, the access to a network, having a support network around them, that isn't just about getting into work but that is about believing in them and showing them the right way, or or wanting them to excel and do better.
Darren Evans:We come across many challenges where, where that isn't the case, you know, where there's generations of of lower aspirations and not really, not really enough push to kind of say let's, let's try and transform our lives, you know you only know what you know yeah and, with the benefit of hindsight, when you're older, you can understand how a network, a good, strong network, can lead you to not just a concept of success yeah but can also help you overcome difficulties and challenges and open doors for you as well as closed doors, because some doors you don't want open yeah yeah, but when? If you're 14, 15. But how would you, how would you articulate or explain that to a 14, 15 year old?
Shenazz Chenia:yeah, the power of a network it's a challenge because, like you say, you don't know what you don't know, right, and I think I think it is about exposure and options you know it's about. It's about showing them that a network of support could be there for you through, you know, through this part of your journey where you're trying to overcome some challenges or you're trying to move away from things that you might be involved in, but it can also open up doors for you to two different avenues you might not have considered. So it is about choice and it is about options, and networks are there to help you discover those right. So I think it's always a challenge, because one you know. Even having a conversation about a network is much later down the line. First of all, it's about you know. It's about you as an individual and you taking responsibility for yourself right. So at Youth Build, we always talk about leadership, and to us, leadership means, you know, taking responsibility for yourself, taking responsibility for those immediately around you and then taking responsibility for your community. So it is a journey. So, even before you can think about network, it's about you as an individual and you know and just understanding what you need to do to just be responsible for yourself and make that change and almost have a conversation with yourself that you want to do that, Because YouthBuild isn't for everyone, it isn't for people who have not yet decided to make that change.
Shenazz Chenia:We're still there for them and we'll walk with them on that journey. But to commit to a program you've got to have decided. You want to do that, you know. And that doesn't mean that you need to know the answers or you need to transform immediately. It means that you're willing to travel the journey with YouthBuild, right, and other partners. So I think it's a tough one to describe a network on its own, because it will be very. It's intimidating to begin with, right, like I'm not even comfortable in a room with two people. Why would I want to be with others, right? So I think what's really important is recognizing the journey of a young person and being very intentional about when things are introduced and how things are introduced. And almost just really for us it's about building competencies that almost become second nature but are not very obvious up front, if that makes sense absolutely yeah, so thinking about mental health, yeah.
Darren Evans:What is it that I can do? If I'm surrounded with young people, either because I'm a parent or there are young people that work in my organization what is it that I can do to foster a positive and a good mental framework and mental health within young people?
Shenazz Chenia:Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just being real, you know, just being real, being there and listening. You know not. I think often with mental health we always want to have an answer and a response, but sometimes all you, all you need is just for someone to be there and to listen, you know, and to know that if you need them they're there. So I think that would be first and foremost, but then also recognizing that you don't have all the answers, despite all your experience. You know like often, particularly in construction, we manage behavior on what we see and what is displayed.
Shenazz Chenia:We don't really go deeper and understand cause, right. So you know, and I understand why, and I understand there are limitations in terms of what's tolerant, what's tolerable on site, et cetera. But if a young person is late, consistently, they're marked down for being late, which again impacts their mental health even further. Right, but how often do we actually sit down and have a restorative conversation around? Why are you late and what can we do to help? Do we even know if they had a bed to sleep in that night? And it's that sort of thing where it's about really getting really understanding the person that you're working with or that is in with you, within your organization, but, but just recognizing that sometimes they just need to know that you're there yeah, and for some people that's quite difficult to imagine, because if I've got a bed to sleep in at night, then I assume that everybody does yeah and the person that I'm working with.
Darren Evans:Of course, they've got a bed to sleep in at night, but the framework that I'm approaching that from is my own exactly.
Shenazz Chenia:I've got a bed to sleep in at night, so that means that you do yeah, exactly, and that's why I say, like you know, just remove the assumptions, the perception of what you think it might be, and just listen, because I think the biggest thing with young people and mental health is being able to is is for you, for us, to build trust right and for them to feel they're not being judged, they're not being you know that, they're not having solutions thrown at them that actually don't make sense to them, and it is about having the right level of support and knowing as well when to escalate and when to get them additional support if you're not able to manage it, which is what we do at youth build all the time, because we're not counselors, we're not there to to really support where the needs are greater. So I think it's recognizing where that is and when extra support and more more sort of clinical support might be needed.
Darren Evans:But other than that, it's very much around um not making any of those assumptions and just being really real with them and listening how do you ensure that standards are kept but, at the same time, being curious enough and being open enough to be able to support somebody? Yeah because there is a limit to what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable and, like you said, you're not there as as um, as therapists or as social workers or or anything like that. But how do you, how do you approach that?
Shenazz Chenia:Yeah, I think it's um, I think in any organization, including YouthBuild, it's understanding what those standards are and what the fundamentals are that make the program a success or make the workplace a success or, you know, prevent any risk, etc. And it's understanding how you articulate those and bring people on a journey with you to understand those right, because we're never saying, you know, relax the health and safety rules, because we need to give young people more time to grow. I think they need to understand the importance of those up front, but it's about how you communicate to them and how you take them on a journey to understand why things are important and not just assume they'll get it the way you might have, and I think that's what we do at YouthBuild. We have elements of our program that are essential to their journey, the elements that you know might be exciting, might not be, but they are important because we've planned this journey intentionally based on what we've seen from previous young people, based on feedback, but based also on what we, you know, we know their development needs to look like.
Shenazz Chenia:So, I think, understanding what those fundamentals are, those non-negotiables, if you want to call it that, and making sure young people are aware of the why behind them is really important, because often you know rules are rules, but if you don't really know what they mean or why they're in place, it's difficult. So, as an example, at YouthBuild, we you know, on day one I think it is we have what we call a respect agreement, which is so, rather than us standing in front of the group of youth partners that come through, we get them to work in groups and we talk about you know what would you? What are your expectations of yourselves and of those around you? And they come up with a respect agreement. That is pretty much what most people would stand up and tell them.
Shenazz Chenia:The rules of the center are, but because they've come up with it themselves, they've thought through it, they've understood that that's what they want to succeed. It just means a lot more, means a lot more to them. So I think bringing young people on the journey with you is important. They they're not they're not, I guess, as passive in terms of how they receive things anymore. They want to know why, they want to understand the value.
Darren Evans:It's interesting that you've mentioned that and you also use the word youth partners.
Shenazz Chenia:Yeah, yeah.
Darren Evans:And so already there is even in the language, the connection and the leveling up of respect, and that you're joining with them to help them go in a direction that they want to go in.
Shenazz Chenia:Definitely, definitely. Language is critical and language really shapes. You know our behaviors right. So for us they are youth partners. We are equal. We do sit in the circle together, you know, as much as we can we involve them in decision making etc. And it is, it is a really important part of their journey to recognize their value. You know, they're not just there to be told what to do. They can create it, they can shape it, they can, you know, contribute to it, and I think that's a very yeah, it's a critical part of who we are, you know, just really recognizing that they are partners on the journey with us. It's not just about us dictating what that journey looks like.
Darren Evans:What would you say that you have learned from this experience that you've had with YouthBuild to date?
Shenazz Chenia:That's a big question. I think the biggest thing is the power of love, like, in all honesty, you know, just genuine love and being able to and not shy away from showing that to young people. You know we might think they don't want that, we might think they don't know how to handle it, but actually they do and they want it. And you know, love might look different for different people, but I think very much it is the power of love amongst the team, amongst the young people and employers too. You know, just really, really recognizing that we're there to serve them as well as well. So love is something that is threaded throughout YouthBuild, it's one of our core values as an organization and I think that is the one thing I would say I feel strongly about and I've learned more about through my time at YouthBuild, because it is the, it's the cornerstone of everything we do, you know. But aside from that, I don't know, there's a lot of things I think on one hand yeah, on one hand, it's it's being very intentional, it's about being very intentional. So, you know, not not running programs for youth partners that are standards, but reading the room, recognizing what their needs are, recognizing that each group that comes in is individual and they might, their journey might look different. I've also learned a lot about communication and being clear in terms of expectations, particularly from employers. So, recognizing that you know it's important for us to communicate the needs of a young person to employers before they come and engage with us or when a young person is moving into work. But also about withholding, you know, having having high standards and high expectations for them to. So you know we would be, we would be quite selective in terms of which employers we work with. For us, it isn't about ticking boxes, it isn't about getting young people into any job. It is about long term success and long term community building and transformation right of society. So young people succeeding and building careers is what we ultimately want. So having employers that pay well, that look after their staff, that actually value young people in the workplace is what we look for. And yeah, that's been a learning too, because it isn't about accepting every job that comes your way.
Shenazz Chenia:In addition to that, you know just the whole world of nonprofits. It's a lonely place, lonely, yeah, it's lonely. I mean you know you come from a corporate world like Sangoban, where you've got a marketing department, you've got an HR department, you've got an IT department and you've got lots. You know it's probably different for you because you've started up your business, but for me it's probably different for you because you've started up your business, but for me it was a big, big change. You know, moving into a place where you wear all those hats and everyone turns to you for solutions on elements you might not even have the answer to, but you've got to go and learn it. You know, lean on someone that can help you do it. So it's been a journey, but it's been great. I would never turn back the clock, you know I would never regret what I'm doing or turn it back and anything. I'd do it again and again. But um, but yeah, it's been interesting.
Darren Evans:I love that. Thanks for sharing those lessons.
Darren Evans:I just want to kind of hone in on one of the things which was the first thing that you mentioned, which was love yeah and I think that, and the reason, the reason that this intrigues me, is because often in the English language, the word love gets misconstrued, and I think that that's only because there is only one word for love. Whether that's the love that you have for your partner or husband or wife, or the love that you have for your children, to the love that you have for a hobby, the word love is the same, and there are lots of other languages in the world where the word changes and shifts. And so what do you mean when you say that love is important? What does that look like and what does that feel like for the young people that you work with from your point of view?
Shenazz Chenia:I think in its simplest form and a simple definition would be purity of intention. You know you're there not for any other reason but for their success, and you know that genuine belief that they can do it if they have the right support. So it's taking away any stereotypes, any sort of preconceived ideas, and it's genuinely dedicating yourself to those individuals, right Because you believe in them, and a love for the work, but a love for the people too that come through you know, so, yeah, I think it is very much about it's purity.
Shenazz Chenia:Really, it's about not muddying the waters with. You know, we've got to deliver X and our results have to be this. And, yes, we have to. We have to think about our results because that's how we we're funded right. But ultimately it is about recognizing that we need to stand up for the journey and the people that we're working with, and that that has to come from love, because it it can't come from, it's not motivated by much else, you know that's wonderful.
Darren Evans:The way that you've articulated that is is so right, because we can approach any situation with hidden agenda. Yeah, and sometimes the agenda is so hidden that we don't even recognize it ourselves yeah, exactly exactly.
Shenazz Chenia:And especially in our world, you know where, where a lot of what we do is driven by funding, driven by targets, driven by kpis that are, you know, that are limiting. And for us at YouthBuild, it's recognizing that if we were to run our organization with that alone, we wouldn't be able to do the work we do. So a lot of what we do has always got to be deeper and supplemented by partners, so that we're able to deliver a much more intensive investment in each individual.
Darren Evans:From the experiences that you've had at Youth Build. What's been the story that's put the biggest smile on your face.
Shenazz Chenia:Honestly, they're too many, they're really too many. I mean, I just have to think about young people that come through and I mean there's one. One of our youth partners came to us and for his first two, three days he had his hood on and wouldn't engage you, you know, was hiding from everyone around him and just you could feel that there was little trust and there was just, you know, didn't want to be, didn't want to be there, had to be there and slowly we started seeing him connect with others and start building a bit more confidence in conversation, et cetera. And you know, it turns out that this youth partner was dealing drugs from the age of 13, only to put food on his mom's table, was used to hiding from everyone, you know, because he didn't want his mom to know he's doing this as well, you know. And then came through our program, realized that hey, this is different, people actually care, and you know it isn isn't just, they aren't just here to kind of put me through a process or whatever.
Shenazz Chenia:12 weeks later, gave a speech at graduation, moved into an apprenticeship still working, you know, even that like didn't, didn't pass his CSCS card on program, so came back after whilst he was in employment because obviously the employer needed this for him to continue came back again, going back to I can't do this.
Shenazz Chenia:I've always failed at everything I've done. I'm not going to pass and just kind of being there to boost his confidence and say, look, you've come so far, you can do this. And getting that call from him when he passed, getting to see his first paycheck, that was that he could give his mom, that was earned legitimately. And you know, and yeah, just that's one story of many that just sticks with me and I mean it's just incredible to know that with love and with people around you that genuinely care, you can. You know young people and youth partners can completely transform their lives and I think it's what keeps me going every day. You know just these stories and you know we've just had a new group start now, and even there I know there will be, you know, equally powerful stories because, yeah, our young people endure a lot today, in today's world. You know they really do and this is their way out and we really wish we could reach all of them through YouthBot.
Darren Evans:What you're doing is literally changing the world, and I really just love to hear the stories that you're recounting here, and I think that you can always tell the intent and quality of a person by the way that they focus on, or are able to focus on, those younger people and those rising generation. To focus on those younger people and those rising generation, because everything that we do eventually we're going to hand on to someone that's that's younger than us.
Darren Evans:That's, that's coming through, and so I see that from listening to the experience that you've had with your father. Yeah, and we've not spoken about it on the podcast, but privately we've. We've spoken about you know, your, your own, uh, children and your own family and and it's it's great for me to hear that that you're doing that with youth build as well, and to see the passion there no, it's fantastic.
Darren Evans:I mean I, I love it shanice, I've loved having you on the podcast today. Before we finish, is there anything that we haven't discussed that you think, oh, let's, let's talk about this. Or is there anything that we haven't discussed that you think, oh, let's, let's talk about this? Or is there anything that you haven't said that you want to say?
Shenazz Chenia:I think. I think the only thing I would say is you know, is what we do works right, so the more we can do it, the better for young people. But also I would say to you have a young person in my place here and hear firsthand from them. You know what the power of support and networks and genuine belief in their potential can do for them.
Shenazz Chenia:You know, in construction we always talk about the skill shortage. We've been talking about it for so many years. But there are a lot of young people out there that, given the right support, can sort of come into the industry. They do want to work in the industry. They don't often know how to get there and when they are there, they don't know how to stay because of the culture and the support around them. So I think, you know, let's listen to young people a lot more than we do now At YouthBuild. We always say like we can't have a conversation about young people without them at the table, always say like we can't have a conversation about young people without them at the table. Right, and I've seen it over and over again within construction forums, where we're talking about a skill shortage and there's very rarely a young person around the table. So that's probably the one thing I would say.