Thrive In Construction with Darren Evans

Ep. 71 “Buildings Cause 40% of Global Emissions” — Why No One Is Talking About It!

• Darren Evans

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In this episode of Thrive in Construction, Darren sits down with Alice Bond, Policy Manager at the World Green Building Council, to explore the global fight for sustainability in the built environment.

From structural engineering to shaping international climate policy, Alice shares her journey into construction and her current work leading climate advocacy and policy initiatives on a global scale. Discover how the WorldGBC is influencing governments, shaping climate commitments, and pushing for the inclusion of sustainable buildings in climate action plans (NDCs).

Key topics include:
Alice’s career journey from engineering to sustainability leadership
What the World Green Building Council does and how it operates
The role of NDCs (Nationally Determined Contributions) in global climate policy
Why buildings contribute to 40% of global emissions – and why that matters
The push for stronger commitments at COP30 in Brazil
The challenges of international climate negotiations
Practical advice for young professionals entering the construction industry

Whether you’re in policy, construction, engineering, or just passionate about climate action, this episode offers deep insight into the intersection of sustainability and the built environment.


Find us on:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0dDkxLWZ25nT0krYWaTiIT

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thrive-in-construction-with-darren-evans/id1726973152

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTrzqei7gttB8WB5wM6hUpw

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/thrive-in-construction-podcast/

Our Website: https://darren-evans.co.uk/


Links:

Alice Bond LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alice-bond-5b0a1976/

World Green Building Council: https://www.linkedin.com/company/world-green-building-council/posts/?feedView=all

Darren Evans: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thriveinconstruction/

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Speaker 1:

The next episodes of Thriving Construction come straight from FutureBuild. Huge thanks to EcoCocoon. The space was great for chats, acoustics and, even better, well-being.

Speaker 2:

So maybe it's a bit of a background of what the World UBC does. So we are a global action network and our focus is all around sustainable and the just transition for the built environment and we have 75 green building councils. So they work at country level and we work at a global level. So it's quite a unique model really, because we've got those green building councils plus 48 000 private sector members, so between all of them that covers 60 of the global footprint. So we're in quite unique position really to impact, to make impact, so both through working at a country-based level but then using that country-based level to build a global momentum at international level. So that's kind of how we operate, both locally and internationally, either on projects or on cross-cutting issues that impact sustainable buildings essentially.

Speaker 1:

So how is an organisation, are you, funded? Is it a private or is it a government run?

Speaker 2:

So it's a bit of a mix. So we have membership funding, we receive grant funding for specific projects or specific ideas, and we also have partners as well for specific programmes we're working on, so it's a bit of a six and the organization also delves into research quite a lot to come up with statistics around the impact that the built environment is having on the world so we, as part of like, when we're trying to tell the story, we use quite a lot of statistics, just because it helps us set the scene of why.

Speaker 2:

Why are buildings a problem? Like what can they provide? Like, what's the solutions that they offer as well? So, yeah, that's a big part of the job, I guess, like working out, you know where can we target, what's the impact, because within construction, you could work, you know across, you could pick one of a thousand different issues, but it's, how do you focus on impact? How do you focus on issues which you could actually have? You know you can make a difference in the relative short amount of time you've got available. Uh, so, yeah, it's that. That's that's a challenge, I guess, distilling it into what. What should our focus be?

Speaker 1:

so what is your focus at the moment then? Because I think what you're saying there is that you can focus on everything and do nothing, or focus on a few things and do something. What would you say? Your kind of two, three top priority. Highest focus is at the moment yeah.

Speaker 2:

So one thing I'm working on at the moment are national eases, home and contributions. That ngc's is essentially a climate action uh action plan that each country he signed up to the Paris agreement has to submit um. So if they've signed up to committing to limit global warming temperatures to 145 degrees, they will also have to submit these NDCs.

Speaker 1:

So NDC stands for National.

Speaker 2:

Nationally Determined Contribution. So it essentially shows how that country is going to deliver to the Paris Agreement, so limiting global temperatures to 1.5 degrees. But when we look at the current commitments, when we look at the current NDCs, the current commitments actually stack up to more like 2.5, 2.9, even 3.1 degrees of warming. So they're a really key policy mechanism to enable that just transition, to enable that movement to sustainability across different sectors, but they're really just not going to happen at the moment. So we have identified this as one of the key focus areas at the moment, because this is the year that they're doing the next cycle of updates. So they were meant to be submitted in February this year, but because there was such a poor uptake of countries actually submitting those before currently I think only 16 countries have submitted they pushed back the deadline. So it's really a key year this year to really drive that focus. But the majority of them don't actually include buildings and I think when buildings represent, you know, 40% of global emissions, why are they not including buildings in these ndcs? It's such a shortfall for what the potential impact that they could provide is. So one thing we're looking at the world green building council is what we're doing a bit of a gap analysis. So we're creating a tool ndc scorecard for sustainable building, and countries will be using it to work out what is currently included in the ndcs related to the built environment versus what is the best practice sustainable built environment policy measures, so they can really understand. Actually, we've got these really interesting policies to do with energy efficiency, but we we're really missing out on these other key areas. So it's used as a tool to kind of drive what are the differences, uh, in those key high impact areas. But, more importantly as well, what are the next steps for that, for that country? If they're already working on one area, what should they be working on next?

Speaker 2:

Um, I think with policy, you really have a very limited opportunity to make change. You can't, you can't, go to the ministers with a long list of 100 recommendations because nothing will get done. You really have to go with a very short focus list maybe one thing, maybe it's one thing which might happen in a couple of years and that should be the focus to get something delivered and get things done. So it's really around impact, like what can these NDCs deliver? But also trickling down to the country-based policies, or is there a firm commitment within the other policy mechanisms within that country. And I think what's also interesting about NDCs is, once it's written in that country's NDC, it really shows a firm commitment to industry, to the government, to the country that they will be delivering along that initiative. So it provides more certainty to investors that this is the direction the country is going in. We can make a good investment in this area and I think without those signals from government with like government does act quite slowly. So if, if industry waits for government, you know it's very slow if government waits for industry, it really is a combination of many different things for good outcomes to be achieved. So I think, um, it is a mechanism that just signals to industries this is going to happen, you can invest in this and we will, as a government, also be committed to the longevity of this policy uh principle. So that's a little bit about the national climate action backs um, and yeah, we're like, say, the deadline's been pushed back to september now. So this it really is a key advocacy moment ahead of uh, ahead of cop 30, ahead of bell m uh, to really drive uh with the countries that we're working with and beyond. So we're working with five pilot countries at the moment. So, uh, brazil, colombia, egypt, nigeria and the philippines. So they're kind of our test countries just to test the scorecard, test the principles, work with their governments and in-country stakeholders. But we'll then be working with many more of our green building councils at a global level once it's been tested and once we're happy with the solution, to kind of really use as an advocacy tool ahead of those updates later in the year.

Speaker 2:

Um, and that maybe leads on to to the importance of cough, of like. Why. Why is that a key uh, a key timeline? Because I've lots of people have kind of mentioned maybe it's not so such an important date in the calendar any year, because in the year, because um it, it can be quite slow, it can be quite frustrating that actually it is a moment when, uh, it's one of the only moments actually when you have, um, lots of different countries engaged in the same room along with uh advocacy teams, along with different stakeholders. They're all sat together and they have also probably been working together throughout the year at different key moments and it's and it's a time when impact can happen. We really want to see more written commitments to buildings in the dialogues and for the first time last year at COP29 in Baku. We did see that with a written commitment in the agreed text. So it is a really, you know, a strong step forward, a firm commitment to buildings, um, but we do need to see more text, more detail. We really would love to see a specific built environment day at COP this year. So that's part of our campaigning strategy over the next few months as well, um, but it really is a key time when you know impact can happen.

Speaker 2:

When you're at COP, um, you're kind of walking around the corridors.

Speaker 2:

It does, to be honest, look a little bit like this here at Future Build, there's kind of trade stalls and we have access to the Blue Zone, which is the kind of you're invited by the UN essentially to be an observer, and there'll be like a series of talks and events and it is a time when everyone comes together and you know you're kind of doing your final advocacy push.

Speaker 2:

There's lots of talks and excitement and also in the corridors which is something I didn't expect to see there is a designated area where activists can be to have a protest during the COP meetings and engagement, so there might be ministers walking past the corridors and they're seeing these protests, which is essentially building the momentum, trying to, you know, make sure that the commitments are as strong as they possibly can be and they might have a specific angle they're working on. So it's a really interesting place to be and also to have access to some of the negotiation rooms. Like we have to be an observer and to understand how the process works so that we can also improve our advocacy agenda. Is is really important for us as well I love that.

Speaker 1:

The thing that I'm just picking up on there with reference to carp was it seems to be a frustration around the time that it takes, which then causes people to ask the question well, what's the point in it anyway?

Speaker 2:

because it's just taking too long yeah, and I think maybe to set the scene of what the negotiations look like. So imagine going into a, like a huge sports hall where kids might be playing football or something, and they they cleared out and they put a huge rectangular table in the middle and every country who's who's there has their own little seat with a name tag. And so they are talking through the text, trying to agree new terminology on a word by word basis, and it could be that every country comments on every single word. It could be the one country comments, but it's a very slow process just because you are drawing consensus from so many different nations and that process is extremely complicated. When we work with five countries to build consensus, that is a very slow process.

Speaker 2:

But imagine that on a huge scale and the sports hall set scales. That is why it takes so long and is drawn out, but the, the commitments that they have, they create and develop there are have such high standing because so many countries have drawn consensus on it. And I think in that respect, you're never gonna be able to be at the cutting leading edge of what we would really like to deliver, because you have to draw consensus and inevitably there will be countries of different levels of development who are there, so everybody has a different agenda and a different way of doing things. But in developing and drawing consensus and taking time to do that, you do have a very powerful document which lots of countries have agreed to signed up to. So I think in that respect, that's why it takes so long and is drawn out.

Speaker 1:

How many countries are around the table?

Speaker 2:

It would depend on the specific meeting and the specific agenda. Say, for example, there might be a technical meeting which is related to a specific topic. So, for example, there might be a technical meeting which is related to a specific topic, so it won't necessarily be every single country around the table, but every single country who is attending could have a seat there. Um, so it might be they have a seat and they don't turn up to the whole meeting because they don't have any comments on that specific passage of text, because they they would access it before. Um, but you know, you could have a huge number of countries trying to trying to agree something so you're talking.

Speaker 1:

You're talking 30, 40 countries. Are you talking 100?

Speaker 2:

yeah, the meeting rooms I was in, uh, the technical meeting rooms that you're talking, 50 plus, so, and and if something has, um you know, high levels of interest, you might have more, so it it it depends on the topic, um, but all the countries would have access what's, what's your focus at the moment um in in your role, in what you do, and can you just talk a little bit around your role and and what that is and what it means?

Speaker 2:

so I, my role, is a policy manager. I work globally on policy and advocacy for everything buildings, sustainable buildings, um. So at the moment I'm leading the NDC project, so developing this tool with our five pilot countries. Ndc's goal path is single buildings it's a title, so that takes up a lot of my time and is a huge focus just because of the need to deliver something this year ahead, you know, ahead of the next deadline in September. We're also working on developing our COP30 strategy. So that's taking place in November this year in Brazil and we are working out what our advocacy strategy is ahead of that.

Speaker 2:

So we have got a campaign called be bold on buildings, which is all around uh, making impactful actions, both through the ndcs as well as other policy mechanisms and other advocacy mechanisms too. So we're kind of developing at the moment our uh, our campaign and what that looks like, fleshing out, fleshing out the strategy for the next few months, um, and we're also working on the buildings breakthrough, which is an initiative creating specific definitions uh for built environment terminology. So those are like my three areas. I'm mostly working on the ndc and on the cot agenda, but the team is is quite split, so we do have a finance team, a team specializing in circularity. Uh, we have a team focused specifically on european policy and I think they are a really interesting example of what kind of impact you can make with an action, an action network, like we had. So they work directly with the european and green building councils here are uh, majority of them are closely linked with their governments as well. So recently, the EPVD, which the new regulation has been brought in, which mandates that whole life carbon porting with set limits has to be brought in by 2030 to European Union countries, and the lobbying that the team and others in the industry have done over the last kind of three to five years has really been an instrumental in the delivery of that. And five years ago wasn't really, you know, a discussion that Europe was having, and it's really exciting to see what can happen in a couple of years of, you know, of lobbying, of working of together, most importantly across the different European Green Building Councils with different sector stakeholders as well. So there are lots of different teams doing different things and we also have a regional lead who would represent, for example, africa, asia, americas and Europe, who would work directly with the green building councils in those regions, in those areas, to share knowledge, to build capacity, to engage on issues in those regions and to engage on specific projects as well.

Speaker 2:

So there's lots of different ways of working. We are quite a relatively small team, but I think the way that we work directly with the green building councils and stakeholders and partners enables us to have that global reach and also the local impact as well. Um, so I think it's a model I haven't. It's not a model I've worked in before, but I found it to be, you know, quite impactful. The way you have access to, you know, 48,000 of our partners, of our of our member partners, of our member partners, of our industry partners, for example. So it's a really, you know, really exciting way of working, I think, and you can really see stuff moving and stuff getting done through this kind of way we're working.

Speaker 1:

I guess, from the role that you're doing, you're going to see a perspective of buildings. Maybe that generally people don't see, perspective of buildings, maybe that generally people don't see. So if you were to kind of package up the issues that we have with our buildings, what would what would that look like? What the list of the issues that that we're struggling to overcome?

Speaker 2:

I. I think one of the main issues for me, um, is that buildings have such a big impact 40 of emissions and I I actually heard earlier in the main stage here at FutureBuild that they are 68% of emissions in London, 70% of emissions in New York. So we're talking about huge, like you know, absolutely huge impact. But I would say most people probably probably not most people here at FutureBuild, but if you spoke to most people in the street in London or in any major cosmopolitan city and they talked about what are the main impacts, what are the main issues that you think is causing climate change, I would be very surprised. If people talk about buildings and the reason is, if you look at transport, if you look at power, if you look at you know it's very visual the impact of those different sectors, whereas buildings we're in them all the time, we use them every day, moving, you know, from your home to your workplace, to your school, to your office. You're always in buildings, but isn't, you don't see the pollution being emitted from the building. Normally you can sometimes, and I think that is a main problem.

Speaker 2:

I think there is a big disconnect for the normal Joe walking down the street of what you know what does a building mean and, like, what is the impact of that. So, for me, I think that is, you know, that is a huge issue within the sector, because I think without that general understanding, it is quite hard to build that momentum, because you need everyone to make small changes, as well as the policy and industry levers to make that impact that you need. Uh, so it is. Yeah, it's a complicated journey, but how, like, how do you do that? And and and maybe, and maybe, there is a slight tact and and change of approach that we need to make to, you know, to make it more widespread what, what, what are those key issues?

Speaker 1:

so is that the thing that? Uh, that the um, the gbc, are trying to solve and answer that question how do you do that? Or or something else, because a couple of times you've asked that question how do we do this, how do we do that? And and knowledge just on its own isn't enough to make someone change.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, but for us it's not our focus at the moment. It's something that I've seen as an issue going forward which might halt some of the major international negotiations that are happening. It's not something we're currently working on, but would be something that would be interesting to do a campaign on in the future. Working on, but would be something that would be interesting to do a campaign on in the future is just it's quite hard to see that immediate impact, like we are really trying to focus on impactful areas to decarbonize the built environment.

Speaker 1:

uh and our organizations. Are people coming to you saying, look, we know this, we want to do this. How do we do it? The countries, you understand what I mean. So the countries come to you and say, um, you as the green building council for the world, um, we are coming to you to say we want to make a change, but we're not sure where or how to change, or even if we can afford it, because there's this whole thing around, it's going to cost us more money. Yeah, through lost opportunity or or whatever it might be. Can you help us? Does that happen? That happen?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 2:

When countries approach us, we'd usually recommend they work with their local green building capsule, like the country-based level, and the reason is they really understand the local context of that country, of that region and they know the specifics far more than I do, as, working in the World Green Building Council Having the global perspective, I might know some details about the country, but the local Green Building Council are really the experts in that country and maybe a good recent example is the UAE.

Speaker 2:

So they were working with their local government to inform the NDC so that Climate Action Plan and they are actually written in the Nc text as a reference for the recommendations that they've made of what are the most impactful mechanisms they can use for the built environment in the uae and they've written commitments within their ndc relating to that, so that green building council has made a number of suggestions for the country, suggests it to the government, work together to develop it and then it's written in the text and referenced them. So I think that is an incredible outcome. Over the last few months that's come together. So I think that's the kind of impact that the country-based green building capsules that you know a recent example of what that can do.

Speaker 1:

Alice, our time is short together, such is the nature of recording a big event like Future, like future build, but really grateful that, uh, you were able to take some time out of your schedule. But I really appreciate you, uh, that you're coming here. I'm just wondering, for our final thoughts, if you could just take yourself back to the point where you were at university and you were trying to decide where to go or what to do with this new qualification that you gained, what advice would you give to someone that's in a similar position to what you were back then about how to find a job that you feel best resonates with you, to enable you to have the impact that you want to have in the world?

Speaker 2:

I would say, if you're interested in something, give it a go and see what happens and you, even if it's not your dream job and something you're going to do forever, it will still be pushing you in the right direction, developing skills, developing expertise and developing your network. So for me I mean I've moved around quite a few times, I've been a structural engineer, sustainability advisor, policy manager and for me, like every, every time you're kind of learning and developing, seeing what else is in the industry, because I think until you start a job, you don't really understand. You know what you could do next, or also you have a better understanding of what other jobs and career paths are out there. So I think there's really something in going for it, seeing if you enjoy it, and then you're always learning, even if you hate the job.

Speaker 1:

I love that comment You're always learning, even if you hate the job. I love that comment You're always learning, even if you hate the job.

Speaker 2:

You might not want to say that for Adelaide.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to steal that. I'm going to use that. Great Alice, it's been great having you here. I really appreciate you coming on the show.

Speaker 2:

Really nice to meet you.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for watching to the end. I think you'll like this. But before you do that, just make sure that you've commented and liked below and also that you subscribed.