Episode 107: RFK - "RFK Must D!e" - The Documentary

In 2007, Shane O'Sullivan released the documentary, RFK Must Die: The Assassination of Bobby Kennedy. It's an intriguing film worth your time. O'Sullivan believes that he has footage and photos showing that Gordon Campbell, David Morales, and George Joannides of the C!A were at the Ambassador Hotel when RFK was killed. Is that a coincidence? What do you think? 

Links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11sDQFLmPX8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Robert_F._Kennedy

https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/the-kennedy-family/robert-f-kennedy/robert-f-kennedy-speeches/statement-on-assassination-of-martin-luther-king-jr-indianapolis-indiana-april-4-1968

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Artichoke

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKmorales.htm

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKcampbellG.htm

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKjoannides.htm

My episode on the Guatemalan coup: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2289560/episodes/14229543

My episode on The Parallax View: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2289560/episodes/14455100

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My award-winning biography of Dag is available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Decoding-Unicorn-New-Look-Hammarskj%C3%B6ld-ebook/dp/B0DSCS5PZT

My forthcoming project, Simply Dag, will be available in hardback, paperback, ebook, and audiobook formats on July 29th! 

Transcript

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Transcription by Otter.ai.  Please forgive any typos!

Sara Causey discusses the 2007 documentary "RFK Must Die" by Shane O'Sullivan, which challenges the official narrative of Robert F. Kennedy's assassination. The documentary suggests Sirhan Sirhan, the convicted assassin, was a patsy, and other individuals, possibly linked to the C!A, were involved. Key points include Sirhan's erratic behavior, a notebook with repeated phrases like "RFK must die," and inconsistencies in the autopsy report. The documentary also implicates David Sanchez Morales, Gordon Campbell, and George Joannides, all with ties to the C!A, in the conspiracy. Causey emphasizes the systemic nature of such events, referencing deep politics and Operation Chaos.

RFK Must Die, Shane O'Sullivan, Sirhan Sirhan, Bobby Kennedy, Ambassador Hotel, LAPD investigation, conspiracy theory, deep politics, Operation Chaos, C!A involvement, David Sanchez Morales, Gordon Campbell, George Joannides, MK Ultra, civil rights.

Welcome to con-sara-cy theories. Are you ready to ask questions you shouldn't and find information you're not supposed to know? Well, you're in the right place. Here is your host, Sara Causey.

Hello, hello, and thanks for tuning in. In tonight's episode, I want to talk about the 2007 documentary film, RFK must die, which was created by Irish writer and filmmaker Shane O'Sullivan. The title, so we're told, comes from this passage, allegedly in Sirhan, sir hands notebook, where over and over again he's written things like, RFK must die. RFK must be killed. He must be eliminated again. So we're told, I've been meaning to get to this topic for a while, and I apologize that it's taken me this long. But as the saying goes, there are only so many hours in the day, I am still, at this point, neck deep in things that I have to do to make sure that simply, Dag gets out to press by July 29 of this year. And yeah, it's a lot trying to get a book out takes a lot of effort and work that nobody ever sees. But I did have the opportunity to watch this documentary, and I knew immediately that I wanted to record a podcast episode about it. If you're not familiar with the official narrative, the thing that you can go out in front of anybody and say, and people would be like, well, Yo, that's that's what they say happened. I want to get into that quickly before I dive into this documentary film. And I know some of you that have been at this for a while are going to say, Well, yeah, we all know the official story, but you have to remember that new people are coming aboard every day. New people are tuning into this podcast every day. And I want to take a quick second to say thank you. I am so deeply grateful and deeply appreciative for that. I'm a woman with a computer and a microphone, a wing and a prayer just one person, and I'm so grateful that you're here. When I saw the statistics from 2025 I was gobsmacked. Truly, We are in the top 25% of all podcasts on Buzzsprout. 10s of 1000s of you tune in, and I am just like, Ah, so very happy, and I'm so very grateful for that, but it's worth it to take a few minutes to just say, like, all right, well, here's the official story, wink about what supposedly happened to RFK. In a nutshell, the official story is that this man, Sirhan, Sirhan, who was a Palestinian Christian hated Israel, hated Zionism, and therefore also hated Bobby Kennedy, because he hears this story that Kennedy is planning to send like 50 jet bombers to Israel, and he hears Bobby Kennedy saying things like, Israel is a place of stability In the Middle East, and it just burns him up, and he just starts to go crazy and to obsess and to write in this journal over and over again. RFK must die. He must be eliminated. I hate him. And so on the night of June or I guess maybe like the early morning hours, I guess we should say like midnight or thereabouts, on June 5, 1968 Bobby Kennedy is kind of coming off of a high point. He's won the primaries in California and South Dakota, and he gives a little speech at the Ambassador Hotel in the embassy ballroom, and the the people in the crowd are electric. And it's this really great night. He leaves the podium and he takes this shortcut that he actually wasn't even supposed to be taking. He takes this little shortcut through this small kitchen area, sometimes called the pantry, and Sirhan. Sirhan has found a way to get himself a job there, because again, he's gone loco. He's gone nutso over the Israel thing and the jet bombers. So he gets into the kitchen at the Ambassador Hotel. He sees Bobby. He sees his opportunity. So he lifts up a little, a little boom stick, and goes, pop, pop, and murders Kennedy there in this small kitchen area of the Ambassador Hotel. And he's a lone nut. He's a coke we've got another Lee Harvey Oswald here, a little man that has a vendetta against somebody that actually has some popularity has the opportunity to potentially become President of the United States. So he gets up, he does his thing, eliminates Bobby, and then winds up in jail. The end, it was, it was this one guy, and we already know that he has strong anti Israel, anti Zionist beliefs, and just because Bobby said that he wanted to help Israel, it was enough for this guy to snap. He was already a psycho. He was already writing all of this stuff in his notebook, and he just lost it. And. You know, golly gosh. G bang. Whiz is really a shame, but you know, that's how it happened. JFK got popped by Lee Harvey, and now Bobby Kennedy has gotten popped by Sara hand Sirhan, and that's it. We don't we don't need to ask any more questions. We don't need to probe both of the brothers got it from these little, wiry, skinny, scrawny, nobody, dudes who took them out. End of case. Okay, right, sure, that's the official story. Now, let's take a moment to get into what O'Sullivan argues in the documentary RFK must die,

Just a reminder. Sara's award winning biography of Dag Hammarskjold, Decoding the Unicorn, is available on Amazon. Her next nonfiction project, Simply Dag, will release on July 29 to learn more about her other works, please visit Saracausey.com. Now back to the show.

The documentary begins in April of 1968 and it's narrated by O'Sullivan himself, and he drops us right in to the aftermath following the murder of Martin Luther King, which I do intend to talk about in the future. I want to get into some of the other pop pops that happened in the 1960s and just the other night, I read a chilling article. It was an interview that was conducted in 1990 with Byron Gila Beckwith, who was ultimately convicted of murdering Medgar Evers. And it was just chilling. Oh, my God. It disturbed me to the core. It's like, I know I harp on this, but it bears repeating. I have never seen anything like Nazi ideology and the way that it poisons people. It's like it gets into someone's brain, it fiddles with the wiring, and it corrodes the soul, and you just wonder, like, how somebody can become that hateful? I don't know what it does to a person. I've never seen anything like it, and it is so diabolical. So we get into the aftermath of the murder of Martin Luther King. There are people rioting and protesting, and we see a video of a priest going through the streets trying to call people to prayer. RFK is in Indianapolis, and he gives the speech where he has to announce to an audience of some people that don't even know that Martin Luther King has been shot and killed. And he gives this speech asking for peace. One of the things that he says in this speech is for those of you who are black and are tempted to be filled with hatred and distrust at the injustice of such an act against all white people. I can only say that I feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling I had a member of my family killed, and he was killed by a white man. But we have to make an effort in the United States. We have to make an effort to understand to go beyond these rather difficult times. My favorite poet was Aeschylus. He wrote in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls, drop by drop upon the heart, until in our own despair against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God. So it's like Bobby is kind of seen as this person who will fight for civil rights, fight for the common person, and not be afraid not, not be afraid to have the tough conversations and to put himself in a situation that could be dangerous, where somebody might want retaliation. O'Sullivan also reminds us that Bobby had been the US Attorney General from January of 61 until September of 1964 he was a sort of right hand man to JFK, but he and Johnson did not get along, and that's something else that I want to cover in some additional episodes, because I've been reading Roger Stone's book about LBJ, and I'm also reading Barb McClellan's book about LBJ. You have this faction of Kennedy researchers that really point the finger at Johnson and say he was the mastermind. He was the driving force behind it. I'm not going to bury my thesis on that, even ahead of recording those episodes, it's like, I don't think he was the mastermind. I think that there are certain people who would have had to have been complicit, who would have had to have known about it and assisted with the cover up. But to me saying that he was the mastermind, you basically turn the entire story into Macbeth, and you also flatten it out, instead of it being about a system, instead of it being about a coup d'etat, whether it really was. You know, Jim Garrison argued that it was a coup d'etat when JFK was murdered, and maybe it was. But I think, to me, the older I get, the more that I research and and in particular, like just getting into the things that happen to DAG, it's like, I just think it's more a global system of power. I. Peter Dale Scott I think gets very close to the mark when he calls it the system of deep politics. And I think that that's something not solely relegated to the United States, and it's not something solely from the past. I think it just turns on and on, just a slight digression. Anyway, Bobby Kennedy and LBJ don't get along. They are not comrades in arms by any means. And so in 64 Bobby Kennedy steps down because he wants to run for Senate, and he's ultimately elected to be a United States Senator from New York, and he serves in that post from January of 1965 until June of 1968 he visits a number of impoverished communities throughout the United States, and is amazed, stunned by people living in, you know, so called First World America, but yet struggling with food insecurity, living in ramshackle structures. It was just like nothing he had ever seen before, especially in America. He reached out to Cesar Chavez and the National Farm Workers Association's movement. They were trying to be able to earn a living wage and to improve their conditions, and he was really like the only national political figure that wanted to get involved and lend any kind of support in 1964 lbjs administration considered Appalachia to be like the epicenter for the so called War on Poverty. But when Bobby Kennedy gets there and he does a tour of Eastern Kentucky in 1968 so it was like four years later he gets there, and he's looking around, and he was like, these people are still living in abject poverty. So clearly the so called War on Poverty hasn't done Jack crap for these people.

In March of 68 LBJ is out, he says that he is not going to seek re election and would not accept the nomination if it was given to him, which by that point is pretty dubious that anybody would have. And RFK is in. He says that he is going to run, and he is seeking the nomination, and he starts campaigning, really in middle America, in the Midwest, with average folk. And I'm not saying that as a pejorative, because I myself live in the Midwest and what people on the coasts would consider to be a flyover state, and I have a farm. I'm the kind of person that would be considered average American folk. And that's really where he begins, and then he starts fanning out from there. And he wins some of the primaries. I think he loses in Oregon, and then decides to really go for broke in California, like it's a major state. There's a lot of delegates, and Cesar Chavez helps to mobilize some of the Latino vote in California. And Paul Schrade is interviewed in this documentary. He was a friend of RFK and union worker, he or union activist, I should say. And he was also present on the night that RFK was murdered, and he talks about people turning up at the polls, especially minorities, turning up at the polls in ways that just hadn't been seen before. So it's looking more and more promising that the 68 election is going to be Nixon as the Republican and RFK as the Democratic candidate, which haven't we seen a pretty similar pair up to that before, and we know how that turned out. So it things were starting to get pretty interesting in the race. He wins in California, he gives this enthusiastic victory speech, and then, as he's trying to exit the Ambassador Hotel, only a few minutes before he steps down off the podium, he gets told that he needs to just go through this kitchen pantry area. Like everything is crowded. We're just going to take a little shortcut, which that, in and of itself, is a bit like the dog leg turn in the parade route. It's like when we start going off the plan, you have to wonder what's actually going on. So he goes through the small kitchen slash pantry area, and that's where, so we're told, officially, Sirhan. Sirhan steps down from this tray stacker that was beside an ice machine, and he like rushes through the crowd somehow, because this tiny space is hot and sweaty in his pack, but somehow he rushes past other people and fires eight shots, and he manages to hit several other people. He hits RFK, supposedly, and then five other people are also wounded, a reporter from ABC News, Paul trade, a Democratic Party activist, Ira Goldstein, who is another reporter from the continental News Service, and then a Kennedy campaign volunteer, and then Kennedy is like, laying on the ground mortally wounded, and he's asking, Is everybody okay? Is anybody else hurt? And they're just trying to figure out, you know, in this melee, what has happened. And of course, the LAPD. Takes over the investigation, and they pretty quickly conclude that everybody was popped by Sirhan. Three of the shots hit RFK, and then the other five connect with the other five who were wounded. We're told that the first shot was the fatal shot that hit RFK in the head. The second one passed through the shoulder area of RFK suit jacket. Goes through that cloth and then hits Paul shade in the head. The third shot goes through and hits RFK in the armpit area. It lodges in his neck. The fourth one also goes through that armpit area, but it passes through and keeps going the remaining shots, some of them ricocheted off of metal, ricocheted off the ceiling, ricocheted off the floor, ricocheted off equipment that was in there and managed to hit the other victims that were struck. Paul Schrader doubts that the bullet that passed through Rf case coach was the same one that wound up in him. When he was looking at the photos of the reenactment, you know, like where they use the Dow rods and stuff to try to get a sense of trajectory, he was like, I'm six foot four, so I'm a tall guy, but I would have had to have been even taller for it to have been physically possible for that to have been the bullet that lodged in my head, according to the autopsy report, the three shots that hit RFK came from behind him and to The Right. However, Sirhan was in front of him. So if he was indeed shot from behind and to the right, then how did Sirhan, who was clearly in front of him and was witnessed by this entire room full of people, as being in front of him? How the hell would Sirhan have done it? Moreover, the muzzle of the boom stick was close. I mean, point blank or thereabouts, maybe like three inches away from being point blank at the most. So again, it's like if Sirhan, Sirhan is in front of him, and people are seeing him, and then the shots that actually connected with him came from behind and to the right at a point blank or thereabouts range. Again, we have to ask the question, How in the hell could it have been sir hand? One of Sir hands, previous attorneys, makes the claim that the LAPD suppressed additional evidence that there were bullet holes in like door frames and doors of this pantry area, and allegedly, members of the LAPD were seen taking bullets out of those bullet holes, but because they couldn't have more than eight bullets and support the idea that it was Sirhan. Sirhan, the lone nut crazy, acting completely alone. No conspiracies here, they buried the evidence, allegedly, according to this attorney speaking in this documentary, this attorney points out that a man named Thane Eugene Caesar may have been a second pop popper. He had been employed by a security company to help provide protection at the Ambassador Hotel. It was not something that he was doing full time. His day job was actually at a Lockheed Aircraft plant out in Burbank, California, and that job, drumroll, please, required a security clearance. Hmm, imagine that. And I have heard RFK Jr talk before about how he thinks Thane Eugene Caesar is somebody that needs to be looked into more so than he has been like he really could have been the person, because, according to this attorney that had been working for Sirhan fame was standing in the actual position behind and to the right of RFK, where he could have actually fired the shot. Allegedly, Caesar tells the police that he doesn't even have the right kind of boom stick that he used to but he sold it before the Pop Pop ever happened. However, this former attorney for Sirhan says that that was not true, and then he had a receipt proving that Caesar sold the weapon after the pop pop, and the man that he sold it to said that allegedly, Caesar told him, You need to be careful with this boom stick because it was used in a police shooting. So there might be some trouble around it, which, if that's true, is certainly very suspicious. There's another possible co conspirator, this mysterious girl in a polka dot dress, and there's a democratic worker or a volunteer named Sandra Sara no who has always been very firm in saying that she saw this girl, and all these years later, she's very clear about what she saw. And when she was interviewed at the time, she was also very clear about what she saw. She said. The ballroom was pretty claustrophobic, and she stepped outside on this kind of little balcony area that had a fire escape, and she was just trying to cool off and get some air. And she said that she saw a woman and two men, and the woman had, she was light skinned, probably Caucasian, and had like, a funny shaped nose, and she was wearing a polka dot dress, and she came out saying things like, we shot him, and the and Sandra was like, who you got, who you shot, who? What are you talking about? She's like Senator Kennedy. And she was standing there in a state of disbelief as to what this woman was saying. And then she had two other men with her, and she said that one of the men was Mexican American, and that she knew that the man was Latino, because she said, I myself, am Mexican American, and I believe that that man with her was as well. She said that one of the men that was with this girl in the polka dot dress like apparently the lady with the funny nose was wearing this light colored polka.or this light colored dress that had dark colored polka dots on it. There was a man with her that was approximately five, five early 20s, kind of an olive complexion, black hair, and he was wearing a gold sweater. The other man that was with her, she thought, was also in his early 20s, even shorter, probably about five foot three, with curly, bushy hair and light colored clothing. And after Sandra saw the picture of Sirhan, she thought that the shorter, smaller of the group may have been him. So in other words, she thought that Sirhan, this girl in the polka dot dress, and then a Latino man were all working together, this man named Sergeant Hernandez is brought in to give her a polygraph, and she describes him as being like Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, like he's good cop and bad cop all in one body. One One minute he's being like sweet and kind of soft spoken, and then the next minute he's yelling at her, and you can hear audio of the way that he was talking to her. And it is pretty creepy, in my opinion, because he's like, you can't say that you saw things you didn't see. You can't say that you saw a woman in a dress saying, We got him, we shot him. You can't say that. And she's like, but I did see that. And he's like, No, you didn't. You're shaming the name of Kennedy. I love that man, and you're doing him wrong. And she's like, You're shouting at me, and I am not lying. And he's like, Well, I'm not trying to shout at you, but this is very emotional for me, and look at what you're doing. She says that she felt like that Sergeant treated her like she was the criminal. And he would say things like, if you really cared about him, you'll let him rest in peace, which is totally a code for sit down and shut up. Quit saying these things. Let it go. Let it go, let it rest. She felt that she was bullied and badgered and worn down. And plus, she felt like, at that time, the cops are the good guys. They wouldn't lie if they're doing this. They have a good reason for it. So so she just gives up and says, like, whatever you want me to say, I'll say it. So she's willing to, at that point, retract her statement and say that she didn't really see Sirhan. Sirhan in person, and for some unknown reason, she totally fabricated the story of the girl in the polka dot dress. So there's that. However, there was another witness who said that he saw this same woman in a polka dot dress, and gave the same description, a white polka dot dress with black or dark violet polka dots on it, like the the dress itself was white, and then the polka dots were either black or dark violet. And he said he definitely noticed her. I'm sitting there listening to this. Going to leave it to a man that's that's men for you. He noticed her because he felt like she was attractive and had a shapely body and a nice figure. And so he noticed her, and he described her as being a brunette with an attractive body in this dress. And he also felt that she and Sirhan knew each other because of the body language and the facial expressions that passed between them. The official report ultimately concludes that Sandra Sara no and Vincent De Pierro, this other witness who said that they saw of shapely brunette in a polka dot dress, they must have been lying. They were probably colluding together in order to lie, because there was only one lady in the pantry who was wearing anything resembling a polka dot dress, and it was a bright green dress with golden polka dots on it. She was tall, blonde and slender, and just did not at all fit the description that the two of them provided

O'Sullivan interviews, sir hands, brother Munir. And he talks about how they were born in Jordan. They came to America on like a Christian sponsorship. And he said he thought that it was the Nazarene church that had sponsored it. So they came as Christian refugees. And he said, believe it or not, at one point in time, we were just like a normal Christian, God fearing family. Like there was, there was no indication that anything like this would ever happen. And he said that Sirhan was really interested in foreign languages, and he would go around the house like, almost like narrating day to day activities or objects in various languages, because he had a dream of maybe one day becoming a un interpreter. And he also said that the family looked at their time in America as a new beginning, like he could remember times when bombs would go off, and he said it was like sticking your tongue into an electrical socket, like it would just rattle your whole body. And his parents were like, We need to leave that behind. Now we're in America. We have a new life. This is a new beginning. Let's just try to put all of that violence behind us in the 1960s because he's short and thin, like it's reported, he was about five foot five and weighed about 120 pounds. He decides to train to be a jockey, and he gets a job working as a stable boy, and then begins the training program to become a horse jockey. But in the course of pursuing this line of work, which would seem to be pretty much perfect for a man who's of a smaller stature and a slender build like that, he suffers a debilitating head injury in a racing accident, and that effectively ends his potential career as a jockey, according to Munir, after this head injury, it's like his personality changes a bit, and Munir describes him as being shaky, more anxious, more high strung than he had been before the head injury. We're also told in the documentary that after this head injury, he becomes interested in the esoteric and the mystical, and he joins this organization called the ancient mystical order of the rose Cross, which is supposed to be one of the Rosicrucian orders. We're also told that he gets heavily interested in self hypnosis. Munir says that he becomes withdrawn and he likes to just spend more and more time by himself alone. So I guess he would go into his bedroom. Supposedly, anyway, go into his bedroom and start doing self hypnosis and like, Excuse me, my voice is trying to go self hypnosis and self mysticism. In 1968 Munir says that Sirhan comes to him and says, I used to be an ROTC and I like to learn how to shoot again. I used to be pretty good at it, and I want you to help me go buy a boom stick. So Munir tells him, like, I will help you. And then after you practice, and you kind of get this ROTC nostalgia out of your system, then you need to get rid of the gun. This is not something that I want you to do on a regular basis. And Sirhan is like, Well, okay, that's fine. So he tracks down a guy that can help them get a boom stick. Munir says that the next day, he's at work, and then he sees this story on TV, if anybody has seen this man, and he does a double take, because it's Sirhan. So pretty shortly thereafter, I guess Sirhan is in custody, and Munir and his mother go up there to visit sir hand, and they're asking him, like, what did you do? What were you thinking? And he was like, I don't know. I don't remember anything. I don't I don't know what I did. I apologize again. I love how I can be completely fine all day. And then I sit down to record a podcast episode, and my voice is like, Haha, no. Anyway, Munir and his mother are trying to talk to Sirhan, and he's like, I don't know what I did. I don't remember. And Munir is like, to this day, if you ask him what happened, he'll tell you the same thing. I don't know, I don't remember. And he said he was just stunned by the whole thing, because Sirhan was the type that wouldn't even squash a bug, like if a fly came in the House, everybody else would get the fly swatter and swat the fly, but he'd want to try to open the door, open a window, and let the fly get out, because he just felt like, after all of the violence in the Middle East, after all the stuff that we saw when we were living over there, like life means something to me, and I just don't want Violence in my life. So Munir was like for him to have done this, or even be accused of having done this, is just absurd. It makes no sense to anything that we knew about him in his prior character. Initially, sir, hands defense team tries to lean hard on the diminished capacity defense saying that because of his fall like he didn't even have the mental capacity, he didn't have the temperament, he didn't have the capacity. He was just not able to even understand what he was doing. There's a doctor who does hypnosis on Sirhan, and there are gaps in his memory as it relates to what actually happened to RFK. Allegedly, he went to a shooting range and did some practice, and then he got drunk. Had like four Tom Collins to drink. Was feeling drunk and sleepy, but he goes to a coffee shop and he meets this girl. Supposedly, maybe it was the girl in the polka dot dress. I. And then he remembers being on a table, and it's dark, except for lights that are shining directly on him. And then we're also told that whenever he has multiple people trying to subdue him after RFK has been shot, he's very strong, much stronger than you would think a man of his slender stature would be, and he's, he's like, still trying to pop, even though the boom stick is out of shots. He's just like, still squeezing that trigger over and over and over again. And even Rosie Greer was involved in in trying to wrestle him down. And there was a police officer who shined a flashlight in his eyes, and his pupils were dilated, and they did not react the way that a normal human pupil would react to the eye, and that led some people to wonder if he had been drugged. Now, as for the notebook, remember, when I first introduced this episode, I was talking about how RFK must die took its title from this supposed notebook where sir hand had just written almost like automatic spirit writing just over and over again. RFK must die. He must be eliminated, and all this kind of stuff. Sir hand himself said, I don't remember doing that. It's my handwriting. It looks like my handwriting anyway, but I don't remember writing any of that. I'm not even the kind of person who would write that. I'm not the kind of person who would do it, and I'm not the kind of person that would sit and repetitively write about it either. Later on, Sirhan would claim that he learned on May 20 in a TV show that RFK was supporting Israel and that he was planning to give military support possibly send these jet bombers to Israel, and it really made him mad. However, they found a journal entry from May 18 where he was talking about RFK as a supporter of Israel. And this is just completely unacceptable to me. So we have this timeline glitch, right? Because it's like, supposedly, if he discovers on May 20, that watching this television program is the thing that enlightens him, that RFK is supporter of Israel, but then may 18, two days beforehand, he's talking about it in this weird, automatic writing journal he supposedly has. It's like, Hmm, something is fishy there. It's not quite adding up. We're also told by one of his former defense attorneys that he was put into a trance like hypnotic state while he was in jail. And the doctor asked him, Well, tell me what you think about RFK. And he just automatically started writing, RFK must die when he was in this hypnotic trance like state, he just over and over again, started going into this automatic writing, which made the defense attorney wonder if that's what had been done anyway, if somebody had been fiddling with his brain. That defense attorney also brings up MK Ultra and operation artichoke. So I'm going to go to Wikipedia for a quick second. These just even stand alone would make their own great episodes, but I want to just kind of keep it simple for now, so that we don't get too far afield from what happened to RFK. But project artichoke, also referred to as Operation artichoke, was a project developed and enacted by the United States Charlie India Alpha. Imagine that for the purpose of researching methods of interrogation, artichoke was succeeded by MK Ultra, which began in 1953 initially known as Project Bluebird. Artichoke officially arose on August 20, 1951 and was operated by the agency's Office of Scientific intelligence. The primary goal of Project artichoke was to determine whether a person could be involuntarily made to perform an act of attempted Pop Pop. The project also studied the effects of Mind Control and Hypnosis forced addiction to and subsequent withdrawal from morphine and other chemicals, including LSD, to produce amnesia and other vulnerable states in victims. End quote, wow. You know you have to laugh to not cry, because it's like you have things like that going on. And then I think about Operation Gladio, where the West was paying people like Klaus Barbie and the fucking Black Prince who had been an Italian black shirt. And it's like we have in this country homeless veterans. You have people that are struggling to make ends meet. Just the other day, where I live in the Midwest, there was this horrible, sad news story about a veteran who went to the VA to try to get mental health help, and they pretty much gave him the brush off and told him, Well, we don't have anybody that can meet with you right now, come back some other time. And the man unalived himself on a bridge, and it was just so awful, so awful. And I'm like, but we had, you know, 1000s of fucking dollars to give to the goddamn Butcher of Leone and the Black Prince. It just, Oh, my God, shit like that goes all over me. Okay, so we can experiment with whether or not somebody can. Have their mind blown out with drugs. And could they pop, pop somebody and not remember it? And, oh, we can pay Nazis and fascists, but, you know, we don't have any money for the rest of our citizens. Fuck off. I get animated on this topic, as you can see, and I don't apologize for that. We segue now in the documentary to Operation chaos. I will again go to Wikipedia, and I'll drop links to all of these in the write up for this podcast episode operation chaos, or operation MH, chaos was a Charlie India Alpha domestic espionage project targeting American citizens, operating from 1967 to 1974 Yeah, I'm real sure that we're not targeted now. Wink, like they're not listening to me. They already know I'm I'm recording this episode long before you ever hear it. They know they're listening to all of it anyway, domestic espionage project targeting American citizens, operating from 1967 to 1974 wink established by President Lyndon B Johnson, and expanded under President Richard Nixon, whose mission was to uncover possible foreign influence on domestic race, anti war and other protest movements. The operation was launched under DCI Richard Helms, by Chief of Counter Intelligence, James Jesus Angleton, hmm, there's a name we've heard in the JFK research, is it not? And headed by Richard Ober. The MH designation is to signify the program had a global area of operations. End quote, so we're in this documentary, we're also learning about the connection of this operation chaos being used to spy on people who opposed the Vietnam War. Sir hands, former defense attorney, points out that, according to him, there are historical ties between LAPD and the Charlie India alpha. And one of the people that he points out is the same sergeant who was pressing Sandra Sara No, as a matter of fact, on some of the audio where he's talking to Sandra, he makes the comment, I have been called to South America, to Vietnam and Europe, and I have administered tests. The last test I administered was to the dictator in Caracas, Venezuela. He was a big man, a dictator. Perez. Jimenez was his last name. And this is when there was a transition in the Government of Venezuela, and that's when President Betancourt came in. But this is all behind, but there was a great thing involved over there, and I tested the gentleman, so it's like, he's he's saying, like, I'm big and bad. And they call me in when they're going to do a serious polygraph, a big boy polygraph, they come in and they get me so you can't fuck with me, and you can't play games with me, because I'm the real deal, as Paul strait so wisely, points out in this documentary, working for poor people is a dangerous thing to do in this country. We found out with Martin Luther King, and then we found out again with RFK, that is so true. I remember back in the not the poppy Bush years, but the other 1w, I got into an argument with my friend because she was just like, I don't think that W cares about black people. And I'm like, I don't think that W gives a fuck about anybody. I don't think he cares about anybody but him. I think they're all trying to further their own agenda. And I don't think that they care about poor white people any more than they care about poor black people or any black people for that matter, I don't think they give a fuck. And one of the things that Paul Schrade says in this documentary O'Sullivan asks him about the possibility of Charlie India Alpha involvement in the pop pop of RFK and trade is like, it's possible. I mean, they've done worse things, haven't they, and it's like, yeah, it's like one of those things where it's like an open secret we all know. We're all keenly aware of it. And that's another reason why I keep coming back to what Peter Dale Scott labeled the system of deep politics. This is something else that I want to write about as it relates to Dag hammarsk is to really talk about how dag has been portrayed posthumously, and how I feel that those posthumous portrayals are not accidental. I absolutely believe that the narrative has been shaped in certain ways to keep people away from Dag and away from his legacy. Whenever I share the book with somebody, they're always like. I didn't expect this. I didn't expect to care so much. I didn't expect to connect so much. I had no idea that he was like that, and it's like, well, yeah, you had no idea that he was like that because you've been purposely kept away from it him and his legacy. You get these bleached out images of dag as the icy, cold intellectual or some sexually repressed pervert that it was like, Well, I can either be emperor Caligula or I can run the United Nations, and I guess I'll be noble and run the UN and it's like, Oh, my God, these portrayals. But it all comes back to that system of deep politics. And the Charlie India alpha, in my opinion, is a huge driving force. Source of that. It's like when people in the I want to be careful how I say this. I may have to hit pause and think about it, but

it strikes me that, you know, there are certain people in other parts of the world that will refer to America as the great S, A, T, a n, and it's like, it's not the average person in America. It's not john and jane Q Public trying to work their job and raise their kids and put food on the table like some of those people that R, f k saw in Appalachia that were starving, that they don't have anything to do with it. It's like labeling an entire country as being that is unfair. But it's like when you start looking at the system of deep politics, and you start looking at the Charlie India alpha, it's kind of like, well, if you're wanting to point the finger at something that behaves in a diabolical way, there you go. O'Sullivan says that he has photographs that indicate three Charlie India Alpha agents, or men very closely involved with the agency, were there the night that Bobby Kennedy was killed. One of the men that's brought up in this documentary in that capacity is David Sanchez Morales. I want to go over for a minute to Spartacus educational just so we can get an idea of who we're talking about here. You may have heard about him before, if you're not new to this research, but as I said, so many new people are coming in every day. I want to just be clear, we're all on the same page. David Sanchez Morales was born on August 26 1925 he spent his early life in Phoenix. He was Mexican American, and was later to be nicknamed El Indio because of his dark skin and Indian features. As a boy, his best friend was Ruben carb carba Hall, after his mother divorced, his father was virtually adopted by carba Hall's parents. I'm going to skip ahead a little bit. Morale has joined the US Army in 1946 and after basic training, was sent to Germany, where he was part of the Allied occupation force. According to Ruben Carbajal car I say this, right, I'm recording this late. It's almost midnight, and my voice is trying to go. I do apologize. I normally have better grasp of the Spanish language than this. I promise. Ruben Carbajal Morales was recruited into army intelligence in 1947 however, officially, he was a member of the 82nd airborne It was during this time he began associating with Ted shackley and William Harvey. In 1951 he became an employee of the Charlie India alpha, while retaining his army cover. The following year, he joined the Directorate for plans, an organization instructed to conduct covert anti communist operations around the world. In 1953 he returned to the United States, and after a spell at the University of Maryland, he assumed cover as a State Department employee Morales became involved in the Charlie India alpha's Black Ops. This involved a policy that was later to become known as executive action, a plan to remove unfriendly foreign leaders from power. This included a coup d'etat that overthrew the Guatemalan government of our bins in 1954 after he introduced land reforms and nationalized the United Fruit Company, I did an episode about that very thing early on in this podcast, so I will drop a link to it if you haven't heard about that. I want to make sure that you do after the removal of our bins, he joined the staff of the US Embassy in Caracas. During this time, he became known as the agency's top pop popper in Latin America. Morales moved to Cuba in 1958 and helped to support the Government of Batista in 1960 Wayne s Smith was a State Department officer in the American Embassy at Havana. Smith tells the story of being in a bar in Havana with Morales. After a heavy drinking session, Morales began talking about the agency's secret operations that involved frog men operating out of Guantanamo Bay. He told gate and Fonzie that Morales was very indiscreet when he was drunk, according to a fellow agent, Robert N wall, he was a roughneck. He was a bully, a hard drinker, and big enough to get away with a lot of stuff other people couldn't get away with. In November 1961 William Harvey arranged for Morales to be posted at JM wave, the agency station in Miami. Morales was the operations chief for the agency's covert operation to train and infiltrate teams into Cuba to destabilize the Castro government. Morales reported directly to veteran agency covert operator, Ted shackley, who was the agency's Miami bureau chief in May 1962 Morales was seconded to ZR rifle the plot to pop pop Fidel Castro. During this period, he worked closely with David Attlee Phillips, Tracy Barnes, William Pauley, Johnny Roselli and John Martino. Some researchers such as Gayton FONSI, Larry Hancock, Noel Twyman, James Richards and John Simkin believed that Morales was involved in the pop pop of JFK. According to agency, Agent Tom Klein's, Morales helped Felix. Rodriguez captured Che Guevara in 1965 in 1966 Ted shackley was placed in charge of the agency's secret war in Laos. He recruited Morales to take charge of a black ops base focused on political paramilitary action within Laos, Morales moved to Chile in 1970 he was a member of the team that used $10 million in order to undermine left wing forces in the country. Morales told friends that he had personally eliminated several political figures. He was also involved in helping Augusto Pinochet overthrow Salvador Allende in September 1973 Wow, according to his friend Ruben, in the spring of 1973 Morales talked about his involvement with the Bay of Pigs operation. He claimed, quote, Kennedy had been responsible for him having to watch all the men he recruited and trained get wiped out. And he added, well, we took care of that sob, didn't we? Now we're also told that's what we're hearing on Spartacus educational just so you have an idea of exactly who we're talking about, we're told in this documentary that he may have also had something to do with the pop pop of RFK as well. At the conclusion of this article about him on Spartacus, we read while researching a documentary, Shane O'Sullivan discovered a news film of the Ambassador Hotel on the day RFK was pop popped Bradley Ayers and other people who knew them identified David Sanchez, Morales, Gordon Campbell and George joanides. There's another name George joanides that we've heard a lot in connection with the death of JFK. And in fact, you may remember there was a podcast that Rob Reiner rest in peace and Soledad O'Brien did where they really pointed a finger at George, Joe and Edie's and felt like there needed to be more investigation into what what was George join Edie's role in all of that. I had intended actually to do a review of that podcast, and I remember thinking like, if they really do have new evidence, if they're really going to bring something forward that the agency doesn't want people to know, something bad could happen. And then a little while later, you know, the news broke about Rob and his wife being murdered, and it's like, holy shit. What happened there? That's a whole nother can of worms to get into some other time. I don't know what's going to come out at the trial, but something went down there.

All right, so back to this film. Bradley Ayers and other people who knew them identified David Sanchez, miraz, Gordon, Campbell and George joinidis as being three men in the hotel that day, an article about this story appeared in The Guardian and on BBC News night on November 20, 2006 as for the other two people that are mentioned, it's worth it to go ahead on Spartacus educational and and visit their profiles. Gordon, Sunderland, Campbell was born on July 5, 1905 after serving as a US Army colonel, he was a Charlie India Alpha contract agent who was based at the Miami station of JM wave. According to Bradley Ayers, Campbell was a close associate of Theodore shackley. And then we see this photograph that, according to Shane O'Sullivan, shows that Campbell and Joe and neatis were both at the Ambassador Hotel on the night that RFK was murdered. I did mention Joe and EDIS. It's also worth it to come over here, just so we have an idea. Joanides joined the agency in 1951 and later became chief of psychological warfare at the JM wave station in Miami. Really, he could be his own separate episode. So I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole, but suffice it to say, O'Sullivan says that he has the evidence that these three men that were connected to the agency were there that the night that RFK was murdered. Could that possibly have been a coincidence? No, come on, let's be real. No. O'Sullivan manages to track down this bestie, Ruben Carbajal, who has the nickname Rocky. So I suppose we'll just call him Rocky, and he reminds me of some of the guys that were on that TV series, The mortician, which absolutely at some point I need to do an episode, or maybe a set of episodes, about that series, because it was so supremely creepy and fucked up. It's an HBO Docu series that explores the lamb Funeral Home scandal, and it is the shit that nightmares are made of. Anyway, there were some guys that they interviewed for that, and they would just be like, Oh yeah, I was in the in the building with the crematorium smoking crack, and I thought I saw bodies coming after me, and you're like, what? Wait a minute. You were doing what, and you saw what. So he kind of has that vibe to me, you know, like. I, you know, you really don't know what's getting ready to come out of Rocky's mouth, but he says that Morales was considered to be the man of 1000 faces. And he's just like, you know, a tough son of a gun. You don't, you don't fuck with this guy. He talks about being in Uruguay, I think, in the early 1970s and there's some kind of coup. And as soon as a door opened, he had to just start killing people, including women and children, and not care that he was doing it. And he says that Morales had the attitude of people think that you can negotiate. They think that you can work things out via conversation, but you can't. You have to just kill them. And I was like, Wow, that's pretty heavy. Rocky claims that they were drinking in a hotel room in 1973 and the topic turned to JFK, and he said that Morales was drunk and just flew into a massive rage. Now at this point, an ex attorney comes on and says that the night of drinking, when JFK came up and Morales flies into a rage. He says, we got the motherfucker in Dallas and then we got the little bastard in California. Rocky's like sitting in a bar smoking a cigarette, and O'Sullivan asks him, was he there? Was he in LA? And Rocky says that he doesn't feel that Morales was in LA. He said that what he was told is they got him, like he didn't say, We got him, or I got him. They got him, which he took to mean the agency got him that Morales himself wasn't there and didn't participate, but the agency was involved. Take that as you will. So in the 1970s as the HSCA is still going on, he rocky says that he saw Morales and that Morales didn't look like he was feeling well, and he said that he was going to go lay down he has a massive heart attack. O'Sullivan says that the ambulance takes hours to arrive and doesn't bring any oxygen with it. Rocky says that it took five hours for an ambulance to show up to get him, and that he wasn't treated properly. And so rocky concluded that obviously they wanted Morales to die. Apparently, he kind of held on for a little while in the hospital, but after a week, he did, in fact, die. Rocky claims that the HSCA was going to have Morales testify, and the agency felt that he knew too much. They couldn't take any chances that he would even accidentally say the wrong thing, and so they bumped him off again. Take that as you will, a man who was stationed at JM wave who knew Morales, or claims that he knew Morales, O'Sullivan shows him a figure in the crowd that he believes to be Morales. And the man says, I would identify that as Morales to almost a 100 degree certainty. You can't ever be absolutely certain, but I'm as close to it as I possibly can be, because I saw him before I knew who he was, and to me, that definitely looks like him. Oh. Sullivan shows the same footage to a diplomat who had worked at an embassy previously with Morales, and as soon as he saw the clip, he said, Oh yeah, that's him, the same man who had been stationed at JM wave took a look at the man that O'Sullivan believes to have been Gordon Campbell, and said, I'm 90% certain that that's Gordon Campbell. O'Sullivan interviews a man involved in covert ops. He too identifies Gordon Campbell and Morales. And as he said, he believes that Sirhan was the throwaway, the Patsy, somebody who could be held up to the public as, okay, this is the guy. But he said, for a job like that, you bring in a professional, you bring in somebody that's not going to miss, and the professional disappears, and nobody in the public ever knows who they were. O'Sullivan shows the footage to Rocky and says, Do you think that this is Morales? And he says, No, that is not him. Those look like people that are probably providing security for RFK. And I know that rocky or, I mean, excuse me, I know that Morales would not have done that. So rocky seems to be at least saying that he doesn't think the man that everybody else has identified as Morales is Morales. Again. Take that for what you will. O'Sullivan winds up being told that the men in the photograph are not Gordon Campbell and George joanides, but instead are salesmen for the bull of a watch company. O'Sullivan claims that at one time, 40% of bull of his revenue was coming from the defense industry, and that it was used as a cover for the Charlie India Alpha. I don't know if that's true. It would merit further investigation on my part before I'm comfortable saying it, but I'm repeating to you what was said in the documentary. Sullivan theorizes that perhaps these cover identities as Bull of a sales people was exactly that it was. It was just a sham. It was just a ruse to keep people from knowing who was actually there. At the end of the documentary, one of the interviewees reminds us that we're not reading an Agatha Christie murder mystery where by chapter 23 everything's tied up in a bow, and you know who done it. We have bits and pieces and clues and hints and ideas, but we don't have any firm answer and and as is so often the case, will we ever how many years or decades into the future might that be? I don't know. I wish that I could give you a firm answer about what happened, but I personally believe, after viewing this documentary, that Shane O'Sullivan is on the right track to have identified at least the type, the genre, of person that he identified as having been at the hotel that night. It just seems to me like a case of we had to deal with this type of problem before, and now we're going to deal with it again. And so they did. Could be wrong, that's just my theory. I absolutely recommend this documentary. I think it is worth your time. It's a little less than two hours long, and it will definitely make you think. It will make you wonder. There's certainly been people who have researched the murder of RFK that feel that 100% sir hand was just the Patsy. They're they don't. It's not a situation like with Oswald, where people can really say, well, he didn't even fire a boom stick. There are plenty of witnesses who say that he did. One of the main theories that's posited in this documentary is that he was a distraction. He was a decoy, while everybody was looking at him, and he became the public facing Patsy, the sacrificial lamb that was going to be put out for the public. The real pop popper was behind Bobby Kennedy taking him out. Check out this documentary for yourself and come to your own conclusions. Stay a little bit crazy, and I will see you in the next episode.

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