Episode 71: [Donatella Taker] Fantasy World Building & Critique

This week, Elizabeth chats with fantasy author, Donatella Taker, about her writing process. 

Even if you're not a fantasy writer, there is so much that's relatable in this episode about being a writer. 

You'll discover you're not alone in some of the challenges that present themselves for writers, such as self-doubt, and you'll find inspiration for navigating your way through when you listen to Donatella's journey.

There's world building, character development, writing process, and navigating critique packed into this episode.

Connect with Donatella Taker online:

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Transcript

1:14

Welcome to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. We're your hosts, Elizabeth and Stephanie book coaches who help you finish your book. Tune in each week as we dig into the writing process, including reaching your goals and silencing your inner critic. You'll learn how to deepen your characters, hone your authentic storytelling style, and strengthen your writing muscles by exploring books in and out of your own genre. You'll also hear from published authors, industry experts, and marketing specialists who will give you tools to navigate this. Self-publishing landscape. We are here to provide the support and accountability you need throughout the marathon of writing so you stop running in place, editing the same chapter over and over, and find the confidence to move forward. Get your copy of a curated list of four essential craft books to assist your memoir writing or a character coffee chat for fiction writers through the links in the show notes, let's bring your book to life together.

Elizabeth 2:10

Welcome back listeners to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. I am your host today, Elizabeth, and I'm joined today by a guest. This is Donatella taker, and she is an author that writes in the fiction genre and she lives in Atlanta, Georgia. She's also written many short films and a feature film, and the book that she recently published is a series, and I'm so excited to have her here today because I've wanted to have a guest on for a while who. Writes in the fantasy genre because we haven't done a lot of discussion on this channel yet, or on this podcast about world building. So I'm excited to really get into that with you today. So I'm gonna kick it over to you. Tell us, um, with the audience what the basic premise of your, your book and book series is.

Donatella 3:02

Yeah, so it is called Lies Bathed in Blood. It's a fantasy sort of young adult fantasy novel, and it's gonna be part of a series. I've only written one book right now, but I am well publish one book, but I am writing the second book right now. It is about a 19-year-old girl named Thea who. Can tell when anybody is lying so she can smell when people are lying. Um, but maybe I'll get into that later. So her sister went to the kingdom of Creat Vore so she could find her missing parents. They've been alone since they were little girls. So her sister goes to the Kingdom to find her parents. And Thea and her agree that she shouldn't worry about her sister's name is Sid. She shouldn't worry about Sid until a year after she's gone. And um, it's been a year. So Thea's like, all right, I need to go to the kingdom. She goes to the kingdom to try and find her sister, and a lot of things happen. So she goes to the kingdom as a. Recruit, um, like a soldier. Uh,'cause that was like basically the only way to get there. And yeah, she trains to become a soldier while trying to find her sister. That's

Elizabeth 4:27

cool.

Donatella 4:28

Yeah. Okay.

Elizabeth 4:30

And so in the first book in the series, that takes us how far into the story.

Donatella 4:37

So it's, uh, she becomes a soldier. She. Figures out everything about creat, vre, and, uh, meets the king, becomes friends with the king and even had a little possible romance with the king. Um, and then at the end, they still haven't found their parents. So Sid wants to go find them in a different area of the world and they, uh, doesn't really care about it. She doesn't care about her parents because they abandoned her. So she is like, well, I wanna figure out why we have powers. So she goes off into a different kingdom at the end of the book. So the first book is basically just introducing the world and introducing creat, boar and the dynamics of the world and the powers that they have. Um, and it's kind of a lot. Do you, um, should I explain like the powers that they have, like.

Elizabeth 5:42

Sure. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit into like how you constructed this world and like what that looked like. I know when we talked before, you had a lot of like initial notes in your brainstorming process before ever sitting down to write.

Donatella 5:57

Yeah. So my, the way I got this idea, like the original Thought Pro process, I guess behind it is, um, I was like, what would be. To me, like one of the most evil things or just disturbing things that a person can do is be a cannibal. Um, so I was like, well, I wanna write a interesting character. I think an in an interesting thing, um, would be to have a character that needs to be a cannibal in this world. So the king of Revo. Each kingdom, the royalty gets powers from eating a certain thing. So the king of creat Borg gets powers from eating humans and the, um, queen of a different kingdom gets her powers from eating plants. And then the king in a different kingdom gets his powers from eating animals. So each of them have certain powers based on that. The animal one, if he eats like a bird, for example, he'll like have wings. If the queen in the plant one eats like, like a, like Venus fly trap for example, then she'll like have aspects of that and they have like certain color skin because of that. And so the king of Revo eats humans and he doesn't like that about himself, but he was just born into it. So, and because he eats humans, he can, um. Like manipulate people and get into their minds and stuff. So yeah, I was like, that would be interesting to have a character who has that like, um, and that kind of goes into why Thea and Sid are wondering why they have these powers. Like why? She can tell when anybody's lying and she's like, am I part of royalty in a certain kingdom? Like, why do I have these powers? So that's like the big question that we end with on the first book.

Elizabeth 8:10

Okay, so not everyone, it's not not just a magical world where everyone has different kinds of powers, like these sisters are kind of unique and in this world it's really only this, like these royal bloodlines that have any sort

Donatella 8:23

Yes.

Elizabeth 8:23

magic element. Very cool. What is that? Process like of like building a whole new world? Like was that really intimidating for you or did that really unfold very easily?

Donatella 8:37

It was, I started this, like I got that idea when I was a junior in high school. I am 23 now. Graduated college, so it's taken me years to. Like finish this book. It took me years to come up with the idea, even like I would say, three years to even start writing the actual book. So in the beginning I got that idea and I just started making a bunch of notes of my ideas, literally in the notes app of my iPhone, and I would just write down anything that I thought of during the day. Anytime like. I would go on road trips and stuff and I would just be writing down little ideas and it changed so much. It, it's not what it was at first, like now. Um, but yeah, it was intimidating to start writing. The coming up with ideas was fun, but to actually sit down and say, where do I begin with this? I don't know. So yeah, that was very intimidating. It took me years to, to do it, so, yeah.

Elizabeth 9:48

That feels very intimidating to me and why I have such admiration for the people that write, you know, either super futuristically or fantasy or whatnot because. You know, unless, I mean, I guess futuristic is a little bit easier.'cause a lot of times you can still set it in our like real world with our rules of our world, but especially fantasy where you're doing all this world building and having to decide like, is the terrain gonna be somewhat

Donatella 10:13

Yeah.

Elizabeth 10:14

anywhere in our known world? And where is that? Or what's the language gonna be

Donatella 10:19

Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth 10:19

know, is this gonna be like, um. You know, more of like a hobbit Lord of the Rings kind of speak, or is this like modern day speak or all that? What do people wear? What are their traditions? What are their holidays? What are their rituals? Or you know, do they have jobs like we do? Do they like, how did you even, like, hard for me to even imagine sorting through all of those

Donatella 10:43

Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth 10:43

when you're like essentially building a world from scratch.

Donatella 10:46

Yeah. Like, um, when you bring up like what they wore and how they speak, that was like, I thought about that a lot when I first started writing. Um,'cause I love reading fantasy books, so it was kind of easy for me to decide what I wanted that to look like. I was like, I want it to be medieval. I don't want it to be anything like modern world. I want it to be very high fantasy. Not part of our world at all. Um, but I realized when I had my mom read it for the first time, um, she asked me, so it's supposed to be medieval, but why do they talk modern? And I was like, oh, I didn't even think about that. And I guess I had just naturally written them to speak modern because, well, A, I wasn't expecting me to actually finish this book. At first I was like, I'm just doing this for fun and b. I was just, I didn't even think about it. I didn't even think like they should be speaking a certain way. Um, but yeah, I just wrote this very much for fun at first. So I wanted them to be like, kind of funny however I would talk. Um, and I'm still like, I'm happy with that. I don't, I wouldn't have it any other way. But it is interesting, um, how she noticed that, and my dad noticed that too. They were like, why do they talk mod, like, like us? But it's in this like medieval period and you also brought up like the rules and everything. I also thought about religion because there's a lot of books where they have their own gods and their own religions. And when you say naturally, like I, I wrote, oh my god, in the book and I after that, and I wrote hell in there too. And then I was like, wait, they don't have. Religion. So I had to go back and say like, oh my goodness, or something else. And then I think I said, damn too, and I had to, um, delete that because I was like, wait, that's not relevant in this book. So it's like a lot of rewriting for things like that where I was like, that's not how this world is built. You know what I mean? So, yeah.

Elizabeth 13:01

that's complex to have to like check

Donatella 13:04

Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth 13:04

on the things that, like our lang, in language that we're just so used to saying a certain way or phrases we're used to using that like would not apply to your like constructed world. That's like a whole extra level of editing I had not ever considered.

Donatella 13:23

Yeah, it's, it was, I mean, it is hard, like, and like I said, like I would outline, I outline the whole thing. And then I just started writing and then I remember I was so unhappy with it. I, I got to like, I wanna say like 20 chapters in and I didn't know where to go from there. I just stopped writing for months, which happens, you know, like normally. Um, and then I completely deleted the entire thing'cause I was like, I hate this. I don't like where this is going. And I didn't write for a long time after that. And then I got into it again, rewrote the whole thing. And then I just, I couldn't stop from there because I knew what I wanted. And now it's easy to do it with the second book because now that I've written the first one, I have the rules lined up. I have the world in my head. Um, so it's easy to just go from there. But it is, I do have to reference the other book a lot. I'm like, wait. Did this person die? Where was this person at this point? What is, how do you spell their name? Like I have to go back a lot and that's why I don't know. My note and outline process is so disorganized. Like at this point I need to organize it, but I just, I outline and then I write and then I outline and write and it just goes back and forth and back and forth. And sometimes I'll go back to the outline and I have a bullet point. And it has nothing to do with anything that I've written. Like I'm like, oh dang. Like I need to delete that because that's not how the world works. Like I had written it initially. I had been like, this person does this because of this, and then I wrote the book and I'm like, that's not how it works. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's like my own rules. I was like, wait, I didn't follow that. So

Elizabeth 15:24

Yes. Right.

Donatella 15:25

yeah, it's, it's hard. Like, I forget too, some, like a lot of the things that I wrote, I'm like, okay, that's not how it works. So it's very, very important to keep the notes and have everything outlined all the time. Always circulating it in my head. Yeah, it's a lot. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth 16:07

Um, because that, that does seem like so much more like work on the front end, especially in like just the outline stage or idea conception, stage, note taking,

Donatella 16:18

Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth 16:19

even research, you know, potentially, um. And to figure out how the magic works, how the characters relate to each other. Um, yeah, it seems super complex. So is this, are you planning on a, like three book series four book series? What do you think the, the length is?

Donatella 16:37

Yeah. Um, I am thinking three books. I'm kind of going back and forth between three and four, but I, I'm kind of leaning towards three now that I've written the first one. And, um, the reason for that is the first one was about creat war. The second one is gonna be about the plant kingdom, and it's called gy. So that's gonna focus, they're gonna be in gy like the whole, pretty much the whole time. And then, um. The last one is gonna be Zon because there's three kingdoms. Zon is the animal kingdom. And I just thought that would make sense. But there is a reason. I'm kind of leaning towards a fourth one, but it's kind of a spoiler, so I don't like, wanna say. But um, yeah, I'm, I'm thinking three and I think a trilogy is pretty common.

Elizabeth 17:34

Yeah.

Donatella 17:36

But yeah, it kind of just depends on if I still have more, I wanna say after, I don't know, like with the second one, I am not even halfway through and I have written a lot, so, and they're not even in er G yet. So

Elizabeth 17:53

Oh yeah.

Donatella 17:54

I still, I don't know, it's, it's weird. And when I was writing the first one, um. You know, I had all these ideas in my head where I wanted it to go and how I wanted the first act, second act, third act to be like where I wanted them to be at all times. And it didn't end up being like that, like the whole idea I had for years of this first book, once you start writing, I was like, oh, that took two pages to write and I thought that was gonna be a huge part. Or

Elizabeth 18:29

Oh.

Donatella 18:29

think. A like huge part or a little tiny part of it, I end up writing a whole chapter about it. So it's you. For me at least, I couldn't really plan that out. So now writing the second one, I'm like, I'm just gonna write, see what happens. Like, for example, in the first one, when we are introduced to Thea and she is in the swamp, like she starts out in a, in a swamp. That's where she lives. Um, that ended up being way longer than I thought it was gonna be. And then when she travels to the kingdom, I thought that was gonna be at least two chapters. And it ended up being like two paragraphs. Like I was like, so

Elizabeth 19:16

Yeah.

Donatella 19:17

I was like, I need to make this longer. Somehow it's, it's kind of hard, like you imagine things in your head and then when you write it down, it's not how you. Think it's gonna go, or, yeah. It's interesting. Um, yeah. And that happened quite a bit.

Elizabeth 19:35

like, it sounds like your writing style, even though like you have the outline, so you do like a little bit of plotting, but it sounds like you also would qualify as a pants or someone that kind of like allows the story,

Donatella 19:49

Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth 19:50

to flow and whatever.

Donatella 19:51

Yeah.

Elizabeth 19:51

Direction it kind of unfolds and then you just adapt

Donatella 19:56

Yeah,

Elizabeth 19:56

your outline or your plot or

Donatella 19:58

yeah,

Elizabeth 19:58

Is that

Donatella 19:59

yeah. Because I would say most of my notes are just the world and how the world works.

Elizabeth 20:07

Mm-hmm.

Donatella 20:08

all the rules that go into the world. And then I started making notes about the characters, like how I want the characters to develop, why the characters think a certain way, their backstory. Um, and that was something I didn't really think about until later on.'cause I just had these characters in my head and then I was like, they need to, you know, there needs to be a reason why they're doing the things that they do. Why does they, uh, not care about her parents? And Sid does what is a certain thing that happened in their life that makes them think a certain way and makes them their own person. Um. And so I started writing notes for that. And then while I was writing, you can't really it with the characters, it was a lot different with the world, you can just write down the rules, but with the characters, I would write down why they do certain things and then I would write the book and that's not how I felt about them. I was like, that's like the way they interact with each other. It just. S ended up being different than what I was thinking, so I had to rewrite their outline. Why did they do that? Why did they do that? It's just like, I'm still figuring out these people that I made up in my own head. Like it's very,

Elizabeth 21:29

wild.

Donatella 21:30

is. And because I know why they are acting or I know what I want them to do, like I know what I want them to say and I know how I want them to react, and then I'm like. But why are they reacting that way? So

Elizabeth 21:47

Uhhuh,

Donatella 21:47

it's, yeah, it's like, Thea to me is kind of a lot like me'cause she's my main character and she still has her own things and why she does things a certain way that I try to like integrate in there. And I try to make her her own character. Not how I would react, but how she would react.

Elizabeth 22:08

Mm-hmm.

Donatella 22:08

So she's easier to write. But Sid, there is a, that's her sister. There's, um, at the end a POV switch to her,

Elizabeth 22:20

Mm. Okay.

Donatella 22:20

she's just a lot different than I am, and she is gonna end up doing a lot of different things in later books. So I'm trying to introduce that. I'm trying to introduce her character, but subtly, you know, like I'm like. But it's hard. She's not how I would react to things. So I, I have to think like, how would she do this? How would she do this and get in her head space? Um,'cause she's just very, very different. And I keep having to go back and being like, but why? What happened to her? What happened to her in her childhood? Like,

Elizabeth 22:57

Yeah.

Donatella 22:59

does she have a connection to her parents? Um but Sid is more attached to their parents than Thea is. So what relationship did she have? And she's older. She's like a year older, so, you know, she had to like raise her. Well, sort of. They're only a year apart, so, um, but yeah, there's just certain things with the parents and certain things, and I forgot to mention this, Sid can tell. Um, any lie that she wants and they'll believe it. So it's kind of the opposite of Thea. Like Thea can just tell when anyone's lying, but Sid can tell any lie and she'll get away with it, if that makes sense.

Elizabeth 23:46

Mm. Interesting.

Donatella 23:48

she's, Thea is more, you know, she is a justice seeker, I guess you could say. Like she's,

Elizabeth 23:59

Mm-hmm.

Donatella 24:00

Sid is deceitful and that's just how their powers are. So, um, that's how they are. Um, and that's how they navigate the world. Uh, like what is it like for this character, Thea, to see through anybody's lie that makes you not trust a lot of people?'cause you can clearly see that they're lying. Um, so. Okay. Okay. And then Sid, what would that be like to be able to say anything you want and everyone believes you?

Elizabeth 24:32

get away

Donatella 24:32

Yeah, so they're obviously very different people, but they come from the same family, you know? So, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting trying to write them and get in their heads and everything. Um.

Elizabeth 24:49

It seems to me like you're almost their therapist. Like,'cause you're only like getting to know them. Little by little, like as you write their stories, and it just kind of seems to me like it's the kind of unfolding that would happen between like a patient and their therapist of like, okay, tell me about your background. Okay. All right. That makes sense. And like, okay, well why are you react? Why did you react

Donatella 25:10

Yeah.

Elizabeth 25:10

Oh, okay. Because of this. Okay, that makes sense. Like you're like peeling back the layers of the onion as like an

Donatella 25:16

Yeah.

Elizabeth 25:17

to these two characters. And I just think it's so cool when writers have that experience with their characters because I. You know, there's like pretty two, two pretty distinct camps where it's like the people that have a strong idea of who their character is and kind of dictate who their character is, and then the other camp that's like, whoa, my character just did this and now it messes up my whole

Donatella 25:37

Yeah,

Elizabeth 25:38

but that's true. That's just her. That's

Donatella 25:40

yeah,

Elizabeth 25:40

operates.

Donatella 25:41

Yep. Exactly like there, there's a lot of moments like that where. I'm definitely the second one that you said where I'm like,

Elizabeth 25:48

Mm-hmm.

Donatella 25:49

I write it and then I'm like, oh, wait, I don't know if they would do that, or, I don't know that I wanted it to happen like that. And then I'm like, but that's what they would do. That's what that character would do. Like what I, all that I had imagined before is completely gone because that's, I didn't consider that that's how that character would react to that situation like this.

Elizabeth 26:10

seems like it would take a lot of like, trust, you know, in like yourself and your, your intuition

Donatella 26:17

Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth 26:18

to like, not wanna. Put them not wanna have so much control over the storyline and just accepting that, like, okay, well I, I think we're still moving towards, you know, this particular end goal, which is what my vision for the book is, but we're just getting there a slightly different

Donatella 26:35

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's. Very, very true. I struggled with that a lot where I was like, like, am is my intuition. Correct. It like, and that was a big problem, like even writing the second one, I had envisioned this one scene for years and I always wanted it to go this certain way, like it was one of my biggest scenes that I wanted to write. And I just wrote it and I was like, that didn't end up how I wanted it to go. Like, and I was so, I was like kind of just, I don't know. I just felt weird about it. And then I went back, I read it again and again and again and I was like, what's wrong with this? And I kind of rewrote a couple things and then I was like, that's where these characters are at at this point. When I had envisioned it all before, it was. Before any of this, like, it was before I even wrote the book. It was like the very beginning, like stages of me thinking

Elizabeth 27:36

Mm-hmm.

Donatella 27:37

and um, yeah, I was like, I didn't consider that these characters have developed at this point. Like they

Elizabeth 27:47

Yeah.

Donatella 27:48

feelings, they have thoughts, like they're characters. They're not just people in my like, I don't know, like they're, it is not just a scene

Elizabeth 27:55

a

Donatella 27:55

yet.

Elizabeth 27:56

already lived through Book

Donatella 27:57

Yeah, exactly.

Elizabeth 27:58

They've

Donatella 27:58

Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth 27:59

Yeah.

Donatella 27:59

exactly. So I was like, it's okay. And then now I'm, I'm completely fine with it. I'm like, this is how it's supposed to go. Um, and we'll see how it goes from here. It's kind of like, like, I don't know, I haven't really talked to a lot of other authors, but I'm not sure how. It would differentiate where the people who do heavy, heavy outlining versus the people who just let it flow.'cause I think I'm like kind of in between. I think I'm more just let it do whatever it's gonna do. Um, but I, it is interesting'cause I'm like, that's just not how I write. Like, that's just not, I just write and things happen and then they happen. Like, um, yeah, I don't know. It's, but I do have ideas. Um, of what I, where I want it to go. Like, I am a control freak in that way, but

Elizabeth 28:58

Mm-hmm.

Donatella 28:59

also I'm like, just let it go. I don't know. It's, it's very much in between, I guess I would say.

Elizabeth 29:07

You referenced earlier that you originally started writing this just for fun and had no intention of publishing it. What, what changed your mind? What pushed you to decide to publish?

Donatella 29:19

Well. I, I didn't think I would ever finish it, so, and I just didn't know what I wanted out of it. Um, and then I, I moved back home and I was so, I was so bored. I had nothing to do all day long all the time, so I just, I finished it and I had all these ideas. Um, and I had all this time, so I was like, I'm just gonna write and do whatever. And I was like, very inspired at that time. Um, so I finally finished it and then I was like, I didn't do anything with it when it was first done. I was like, I don't know what to do. And then I, I didn't even tell anyone about it. Like I nobody knew about this at all.

Elizabeth 30:12

That you were writing this

Donatella 30:14

No,

Elizabeth 30:14

novel.

Donatella 30:15

no, for years, nobody knew. And'cause it was just my little thing, I wanted to keep it to myself. I was like, this is my own like, little safe space. Like I don't want anybody to know about it. It's my own thing. Um, and I didn't want anybody else's like idea or anybody's judgment. Any, anything. I just wanted it to be my own thing. And I didn't want any questions. Like, when are you gonna finish it? When is this, when is it, da, da, da.

Elizabeth 30:41

Oh

Donatella 30:42

I just was like, don't tell anyone because maybe I won't finish it. Um, and then I think I told my mom about it, like during some car ride because I was very excited that I had finally finished it. And I was like, just so you know, um, I wrote like a whole book and she was like, what? Like what are you talking about?

Elizabeth 31:03

gosh.

Donatella 31:05

And then she, I had her read it'cause I was like, I wanted somebody to. Like share their thoughts about it with me. Yeah, exactly. Like, I was like, I wanna hear what somebody says. And then she, of course she's my mom, so she was like, I love it. You know, like, and she gave me all these notes and everything, but um, yeah. And then she was like, you should do something with it. And I was like, maybe, I don't know. I don't know. It's, you know, it's scary. Like rejection is very scary and I am in the film industry, so I get rejected. Constantly, like all the time. So I'm used to it. And I also went to college for film. And you, a big part of, um, film school is criticism like Mm-hmm. that's why you go to art school. To me, a big part of it is people and what people think of your art. Like

Elizabeth 32:04

Mm.

Donatella 32:04

if a lot of people. Don't get that where you get true, authentic, like thoughts about your work in college. You have to like, if, if you're in a class where you have to give criticism, you're gonna get people's criticism.'cause like my mom, if I give her the book, she's gonna give me the mom. She's gonna be like, I love it. You know, she's my mom.

Elizabeth 32:31

Yeah.

Donatella 32:32

Um, but in school people give you like very true, honest. Criticism. So, yeah, I, I was scared. I was like, I don't know if I want that. I don't know if I want anybody to say anything about my book. Like I like it and it's how I want it. Um,'cause

Elizabeth 32:53

much sense to me then as to why you kept this a

Donatella 32:55

yeah.

Elizabeth 32:56

a hard time kind of understanding why anyone would like spend all this time building this world and be be so passionate about it and wanna keep it secret. But that makes so much

Donatella 33:04

Yeah.

Elizabeth 33:04

because you experienced the other side

Donatella 33:06

Yeah.

Elizabeth 33:07

of that coin. Do you think that makes you a little bit more, not callous, but just like. thicker skin when

Donatella 33:14

yeah.

Elizabeth 33:15

to the potential criticism.

Donatella 33:16

Yeah. Um, I, I think, um, college like definitely gave me a thicker skin. The first assignment I had, the very, very first assignment I had, I was in script writing. We wrote a one page script and. I actually got pretty good feedback on that. And then the second script, people tore it to shreds. Like, I was like, oh, this sucks. And I was so beaten up about it. I was like never writing ever again. And then I still had to write scripts. And that class, it was a class. And then, you know, that was year one. That was freshman year. That was every single year was you would write scripts. I wrote so many, so many scripts. And the next day everybody reads it and everybody gives you notes and you just get used to it. You and I actually grew to want it. I was like, at first I was like, I don't wanna hear anybody's things. Like I like it. And then by the last year I was like, I need to hear people's thoughts because I need to fix my script. Um, but that was because I was. Showing it to an audience. The book though, it was just for me, like, I was like, I don't care. So I don't know. It is kind of weird. It's if I had gone about it a different way and wanted to publish it at first, maybe I would've had other people read it and give me notes. But I'm happy with the way it is and I'm glad I didn't like, I think it's like. I don't know. It's kind of hard. Like to me it was very much like a passion project is my own thing. Um,

Elizabeth 35:05

Yeah.

Donatella 35:06

and also I had started this idea junior year of high school, so this was like my baby, like this was like my thing and I didn't wanna hear anybody else's things. But yeah, I don't know. Like when you say, do you think it gave you a thicker skin? Yes. Um, like I would be able to take people's. Criticism now about it, but it also caused me to not want to get notes about it. So, I don't know. It's, it's kind of in between. I don't know. It's, I don't know.

Elizabeth 35:44

that's such an interesting perspective, you know,'cause I, I think so many people, at least that I've spoken to, come into writing not having lived in any sort of world where their art. Is critiqued or their, you know, creativity is critiqued. And I think that can be so hard to, I, I know a lot of writers that have trouble even filtering the critiques that they get, you know, of being able to recognize when something is a valid critique versus. Where your book just wasn't for that particular

Donatella 36:17

Right.

Elizabeth 36:17

they were looking for something that you just weren't going to ever give them, and that's not what your piece was for. That's not what your art was for. That was of what the intention of your script or whatever the art form is. Do you have any sort of, like, as we close out this session, do you have any sort of advice for people around that, based off of your own experience about how to filter. the Amazon reviews that you might get when you publish your book, or you know, the feedback that you might hear of people either liking it or not liking it, or wishing something was different.

Donatella 36:49

Right. I mean, I would say if you are reading criticism,

Elizabeth 36:57

I,

Donatella 36:57

then you already need to have in the back of your mind that I'm going to change something. If you're dead set on something, then just have it be how it's, and just be happy with it. But if you're going into it thinking I wanna change something, then yes, you should read your comments. And if you don't like something about it, you should, because at the end of the day, art is, if you're putting out in the world, it's going to be criticized no matter what you do, you know? Um.

Elizabeth 37:29

Yeah.

Donatella 37:30

And we would say this all the time in film school, like when you, when we would get notes, um, you weren't allowed to say anything. You just had to take it.

Elizabeth 37:41

Right.

Donatella 37:41

Um, because if you're defending it, if you're explaining it, that means they didn't get it. If somebody didn't get it, it means that you need to change something. And if somebody's telling you, Hey, I have a question about this, this, this, this. I have a question. Why does this do this? Why does this do this? Da da da da. I have all these questions. S then you need to be like, okay, okay. And you need to change something. Because if your audience, like I said, if your audience isn't getting it and they're not understanding what you're trying to say, then you need to change something. And if you're completely happy with it, then don't change anything. Like, but if you are looking to,'cause there were so many times where I would come in and I'd be like, I need your guys' notes. I don't know where to go from here.

Elizabeth 38:25

stuck. Yeah,

Donatella 38:26

don't know what's wrong. Something's and you need other people. Um, their ideas and like, it's the biggest collaboration is, you know, when you're in that writer's room. Um, just throwing out ideas and I was very grateful for a lot of, like, they made my scripts way better. Um, but that's because I was going into there, I was looking for it. I wanted help. If you want help, of course. And, but if you're reading the comments and you're like, you don't wanna change anything, then just, you know, it's, it's hard. It's really, really hard. If you don't wanna change anything, then you're really happy with it. And you read something and you're like, dang it, they didn't get it. They don't like it. But, you know, it's like you just gotta brush it off. And there's a difference between notes and hate. Like there's a, there's a really big difference between. Constructive criticism and somebody who just didn't like it, you know?

Elizabeth 39:29

I, I think you draw some really important distinctions for one, you're. You're showing that, like the critique is the, the feedback you get when you are asking for help,

Donatella 39:38

Right.

Elizabeth 39:39

like that's more in like the editing stage or your first readers, or if you use beta readers, right, where you're open to making adjustments, where you're trying to double check yourself to make sure your storyline makes sense or that you know, the, the ideas are translating properly, that it's clear. And then there's the stuff

Donatella 39:59

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth 40:17

to. Say if you're doing a series, you know, something you could enhance for books later in the series or take on for your just general writing process, you know, of how you approach character development or dialogue or whatever the critique may be around. But I think that's so wise of you to like make that distinction of looking back at yourself and like, was I asking for feedback on this? And if not, then great. Like

Donatella 40:43

Yeah.

Elizabeth 40:43

They can keep that. I can keep my thing, versus when you go into a space and you're like, could you read this story? And like, let me know if you are, how you're interpreting it so I can see if you're interpreting it the way that I intended for it to be

Donatella 40:59

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I, I had this discussion too with my, my brother and his girlfriend. Um,'cause I was like, I had already published that. I had already put it on Amazon and.

Elizabeth 41:11

mm-hmm.

Donatella 41:13

I was like, I'm happy with it. And I made the little cover art. Like, I was like, this is cute. I'm just gonna put it on Amazon. Like why not put it out there? Um, and I, they had written, or they had, uh, read the book and I was like, I wanna hear what you guys think. Like, let's hear it. And my brother brother's girlfriend was like, well, do you want to hear like notes? You've already published it, or do you want to hear like what we think, like what type of notes do you want? And I was like, I just wanna hear like what you guys think. But I was like, that got me thinking. I was like, she's right. Like I already published it. I can't really go back from here unless I delete it. And I, and I want to, like, if I want to hear those notes and I want to change things,

Elizabeth 41:54

Mm-hmm.

Donatella 41:54

like I can consider that. I mean, do I want all these notes from her? Like, or should I just say, no, just tell me what you think. And I was like. I just wanna hear what you think. I don't wanna change it. This is my thing. And,

Elizabeth 42:10

What was your reader experience,

Donatella 42:12

Exactly.

Elizabeth 42:12

edit it. Tell me what your

Donatella 42:14

Yep. Exactly. How did you, I I was mainly like, do you have any questions?

Elizabeth 42:20

Mm-hmm.

Donatella 42:21

Um, what did you think about the way the world works? Like how exactly what you said, how did you interpret it? Because if you have any questions, then I have a problem, you know, like then. At least questions that weren't answered that I wanted to be answered. If you have questions about

Elizabeth 42:39

could clarify

Donatella 42:40

Exactly.

Elizabeth 42:41

two,

Donatella 42:42

Exactly. Exactly. Um,

Elizabeth 42:44

Mm-hmm.

Donatella 42:45

but if you have questions about like spoilers, obviously then I am okay with that. Like, I'm like, okay, cool. Um, yeah, exactly.

Elizabeth 42:53

actually need you to have those

Donatella 42:55

Yep.

Elizabeth 42:56

what's gonna make you pick up the next

Donatella 42:57

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So, and you know, they gave me. The notes that I exactly wanted to hear. So I was like, cool, I'm okay with it. Like I was completely fine with everybody's notes, at least who his Reddit that they gave me. I've been like very, very happy with the responses so far. So yeah. And yeah, I mean, like I said before, like it's scary. It's like my thing that I put out there, like I don't care what you think about it, this is my own world. Like this is my little. Like escape from reality.

Elizabeth 43:34

Yeah.

Donatella 43:34

So like, whatever you think about it, it's, it's weird. It's very, very weird when you're very attached to something. And then other people, like when my mom first read it, I was like, well,'cause she would start talking about it and I'd be like, well, what did you think of Thea? What did you think of Sid? Who's your favorite character? What did you think? And she had. So many different ideas that I never thought of. I was like, oh, interesting. Like, like I remember she said one of the characters, penny, she was like, I don't trust her at all. And I was like, whoa. I, I didn't know, like I wasn't planning on that at all. She was like, I didn't like her. And I was like, oh dang. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. And I got

Elizabeth 44:21

Well, and you have to allow space for readers to have their own

Donatella 44:24

exactly.

Elizabeth 44:25

your

Donatella 44:25

Yeah, it, I was like, okay. And then I had other people say that about that character too. I was like, okay, so maybe I should consider that. Like

Elizabeth 44:34

And lean

Donatella 44:35

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that was pretty cool. It's, it's really cool hearing what other people think and what they interpreted certain things as.

Elizabeth 44:47

Well, congratulations on getting it there. Please share what the listeners, what the name of your book is and where they can find it. And we'll also put all of your social media links in the show notes so that people can find you and interact with you as

Donatella 45:02

Okay, awesome. Yeah, so it is Lies Bathed in Blood. It's on Amazon. I think you can get it for free if you have Kindle Unlimited. But yeah, and then there's also a paperback, um, version that you can get. So, yeah.

Elizabeth 45:18

nice. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. And. Good luck on getting through Book two and the rest of the series, and I just, I really appreciate your insights into like the world building piece and then sort of this unexpected detour we took into like the criticism and I, I'm so glad we went there because I think that's something that. Uh, we don't talk about enough, but also something that like people really get nervous about and it

Donatella 45:47

Yeah,

Elizabeth 45:48

a lot of times from even publishing because of the

Donatella 45:51

yeah,

Elizabeth 45:52

for asking for help when they really are stuck and need

Donatella 45:55

yeah,

Elizabeth 45:56

but they're worried about what kind of feedback they're gonna get. So thank you

Donatella 45:59

yeah.

Elizabeth 46:00

to talk through all of

Donatella 46:01

Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth 46:01

us.

Donatella 46:01

course. Thank you for having me. I loved it. It was fun.

Elizabeth 46:06

Awesome.