Episode 102: [Allison Lau] Memoir Writers, Don't Fear the Developmental Edit

Elizabeth chats with Allison Lau, a ghostwriter and developmental editor for memoir and mission-driven nonfiction, about the memoir writing process and Allison’s love for helping writers discover their voice and the story that’s meant to be on the page. 

It’s a conversation that takes you deep into the memoir process and the value of inviting a developmental editor along with you. It’s a beneficial partnership for all writers to have a trustworthy set of eyes on your work. You can get so close and lost in your own work that you miss the details and pieces that connect with a reader. 

There’s no doubt it can feel incredibly scary to open yourself up to sharing your writing. Memoir, especially, is so deeply personal and it can take a lot to find someone you trust. After listening to this week’s episode, it just might be Allison Lau. You’ll find her to be so genuine and deeply passionate about the work she does. It’ll feel like you’re listening to a dear friend as you dive into her conversation with Elizabeth.

If you aren’t familiar with the different types of editors, this is an opportunity to understand the role of a developmental editor in your writing journey. When you hire a developmental editor, you’re looking for someone who will help you mold and shape your story. It’s not the person pulling out the red pen to mark up every inch of your work. That would be your line editor and these days it’s usually not the red pen but comments in the margins on your Word doc. 

So, there’s really nothing to stress about when hiring a developmental editor. It’s someone who has your best interest at heart, and if you’re not feeling this then you’re not working with the right person. You want to feel like you’re sitting down with a dear friend. Your writing is important to you and finding someone who can help shape it into the best possible story for readers will be incredibly beneficial. 

 Welcome to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. If you've ever felt the pull to write your truth, to shape the chaos of real life into something meaningful and to share your journey with the world, you're in the right place. We're your hosts, Elizabeth and Stephanie, writers, coaches, and entrepreneurs who believe in you and know how important it is to find a writing community to guide you on your path to self-publishing.

You’re invited to connect with us by joining our Embodied Writing Experience where you’ll get a writer’s retreat directly to your inbox on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays each week. Whether you’re working on a memoir, a novel, or journaling for yourself, this is an invitation to slow down, tune in, and write with embodied intention.   

Join our Embodied Writing Experience where you’ll get a writer’s retreat directly to your inbox on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays each week. This is an invitation to slow down, tune in, and write with embodied intention.   

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Transcript

Elizabeth Wilson 0:00

Welcome back listeners to another episode of the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. I am your host, Elizabeth, and I am here today with Allison Lau, and let me tell you about this girl. Okay, so we were connected through Carolina, who was on a guest on our podcast back in the fall who does book cover design, and she had worked. With you, Allison, or y'all had shared a client that you worked on

Allison Lau 0:28

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 0:28

and so she was so impressed with you that she passed your name onto me. And when we first connected and met via Zoom, I mean it was like instantaneous. Like I found one of my people, um. And then since then we've like scheduled like these hour long blocks to talk and find ourselves like, oh my gosh, I gotta go the hour's almost over and I have other commitments. But, um, let's schedule another one because we didn't even cover, you know, everything that we wanted to talk about. I, know, I love your listening to your journey with memoir writing and pulling in that science brain, which I also relate to, into memoir writing. Um, and then, uh, of course, I. I've enjoyed hearing about your developmental editing and your own journey in getting your memoir out there, so just a little teaser listener of the kind of things we'll be talking about today. Okay. Also, Allison

Allison Lau 1:26

pressure.

Elizabeth Wilson 1:26

gonna be to write or wherever we end up because that's how we roll. also, Allison's gonna be joining us for our upcoming memoir Summit, which is scheduled for March 14th. This is a day long. Zoom panel guest extraordinaire, where we're gonna be talking about all things memoir and it is absolutely free to watch live. So get on our list, make sure you get those links. Um, Alison is just one of the fantastic guest and professionals that we will have there discussing the ins and outs of getting your memoir from idea to. In the hands of your reader. So hope you enjoy this episode, listener, and take it over to you. Allison, thank you for being here with me today.

Allison Lau 2:13

Thank you for having me, Elizabeth. I'm so excited. And like you said, I feel like the first time you and I hopped on a call, it didn't feel like we were, you know, meeting each other for the first time. It felt like old friends where we go. Oh yeah. I also had a career in academia. I also am a woman in stem re rediscovering myself now as I'm working on a memoir, working in the writing world and publishing and, uh. Just so fun to like find kindred spirits. It's a, it's such an amazing thing that the internet can do for us, and just that like networking happens across, you know, so many different spaces. So thank you Carolina for introducing us. I feel like she's the hub of like, so many fantastic connections.

Elizabeth Wilson 2:55

You know what? It's so true. Like that is probably one of the most unexpected benefits of writing my memoir and also just starting the podcast. But even just the writing, I've met so many people through entering into that world and it's. It's such a supportive, cozy space we have here, you know, where we get to meet with other writers and feel so inspired and, and understood because sometimes the people in our day-to-day don't really get all the intricacies of what we're wrestling with in our minds or. You know, all the thought processes or the multiple rounds of edits that our work goes through. It's like people ask me all the time, like, 'cause I've been working on my memoir for like two years now. Like, oh, well what are you doing now? I'm like, oh, I'm editing. And they're like, oh, I thought you already edited it like I did. I'm editing again.

Allison Lau 3:46

It's a process. It keeps going. It's, it's a, yeah, it's an ever evolving, amorphous thing. But you're right. I think that sometimes people in our day-to-day life don't totally understand it because writing is such a like, I don't know, it's such a like vulnerable and like intimate process that it's sometimes hard to like share with the people closest to, which I think is a really interesting thing. I've. I found that some of, like my closest writer friends, I feel like have a really interesting version of me that they know that's maybe more truth, more truthful to like the core of who I see myself as because they know me through my art and not necessarily through, you know, seeing me bustling around carrying the groceries or anything like that. So it's a really, it's an odd and like beautiful way to get to know people, which is really cool.

Elizabeth Wilson 4:34

I

Allison Lau 4:34

But.

Elizabeth Wilson 4:35

Yeah.

Allison Lau 4:36

Speaking of memoir journeys, oh my gosh. I feel like everyone has such a, like, I don't know, everyone has a different experience. Everyone has a different journey with it, but memoirs themselves are like this really interesting beast that I've really come to love. It's kind of this like combination of, it's obviously reality, it's lived experience, but there's such a huge storytelling component that that part of being a writer really gets to shine through in memoir and. Yeah, like you said, you've been working on this for two years. It's a, it's a like labor of love for sure.

Elizabeth Wilson 5:10

Share with us a little bit about how you got started writing your memoir, and then speed us up to where you're at today with it.

Allison Lau 5:18

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Um, I have written fiction for years. I got to a place where I was a couple months postpartum, kind of in this weird, huh, what do I write about next? Happened to pick up a couple nonfiction titles that I really loved reading, and I realized, huh, I've done some kind of cool things in my life that people might be interested in reading about that, uh. That thought largely came from my experience studying monkeys and apes in all sorts of remote jungles around the world for my, you know, dissertation research as a PhD student, early career scientist after that. And I thought, Hey, I've taken a shower and a creek and dumped fish all over my head and called that a bath, and it was great. Like those funny little things that, to me, that's just part of my experience. But when you tell people that they go, oh, that's. That's different. Uh, and in starting to kind of piece together my own story, I realized that there might be something there.

Elizabeth Wilson 6:19

Hmm.

Allison Lau 6:19

I did not think I was writing a memoir. I thought I was writing a fun science book, and when I, um, I'm pursuing traditional publishing with this particular title, I went out to a bunch of different literary agents, found one who's a really great fit, and she went, cool, but you're trying to be too many things. This is a memoir. You need to strip back all the science, all the different platforms that you think you are trying to address. And she's like, this is your story. That was an interesting experience. So that was, uh, pretty much all of this year. I met her in February and we worked on the memoir proposal for the majority of 2025. We, you know, flash forward through that whole process because that could be another hour long podcast in itself. Um, we tried to sell my memoir to a bunch of the Big five publishers, and it did not sell this fall, which initially was very disappointing, but it actually has turned into a silver lining. So we have, we, meaning my agent and I have decided to put it on pause. The, uh, market's not ready for a. Memoir from an unknown individual. Right now, I am not a celebrity and the market's a little bit tough right now for memoir, so we are shelving that for the time being and I am focusing on a pop science book. It's all about primates relationships and pretty much the kind of under underappreciated social connections across the primate world. So. It's a nerd book, but it's also a relationship book and I'm having a blast writing it.

Elizabeth Wilson 7:59

Oh, that's

Allison Lau 7:59

Uh, yeah. Please stop me before I ramble about monkeys all day.

Elizabeth Wilson 8:04

No. What I love and what I want listeners to understand too is that it was the stuff you were seeing in your research that then you were realizing was being mirrored in these new bonds. You were forming as a a mom to your child and relationship dynamics and your own world that you saw and made that connection between this research that you were supposedly like. Well experienced in, and yet the struggles that you were having within your own relationships and just seeing that correlation of like, oh, what I learned about these monkeys in this jungle actually applies here in my day-to-day life.

Allison Lau 8:45

Oh, absolutely. And what's so funny is I spent, like you said, I was studying all these social relationships. I was studying monogamous monkeys that bond for life, and I've been studying them for over 10 years and I was like, oh, I understand relationships. Let me tell you, your own relationship is a whole different beast and oh my gosh, I watched so many monkeys experience parenthood for the first time. I have seen firsthand how much an individual's cognition changes their approach to the world changes when they become a parent. I thought I was ready for it, became a mom, completely blindsided. And so sometimes the things that we think we know best, we actually know nothing about. And you're absolutely right. That was a large part of where the idea for this memoir came from is I would've considered myself an expert until I lived it myself. And it's completely different than anything that you think, but there's also odd similarities with tiny three pound monkeys that live in the jungle.

Elizabeth Wilson 9:42

That's so wild to me. I think I would've wanted to know that, like even reading, like the, the pop science book that you're writing now, to know that this same thing is seen in these monkeys would help me feel like it was normal to be going through. You know, the fact that I couldn't hold on to like two connecting thoughts or, you know, how, how awful my memory was or how my processes that I was so reliant on. becoming a mom just went to crap and I had to reinvent the way that I moved throughout my life. I mean, we were joking before we hit record about how much cold coffee I drink, you know, because it's like it just got abandoned on the counter and I would move on to something else. You know, maybe because it was urgent, maybe I just forgot it and I come back like hours later to a cold cup and have to microwave it. Um, and it's just so interesting like that way that you are gleaning some of those lessons from that environment and that subset of beings and then allowing the reader to apply them to their own experiences and that, I don't know, that seems so validating in a lot of ways.

Allison Lau 10:55

I think yeah, validating, comforting, and kind of, it, it's just nice to remember that, you know, universally, we're all just mammals. We're all just out here trying to live our lives and. In some ways it's, it makes you feel small to think that you're not that special, but at the same time, it's really nice to know that you're not that special and that everyone else is going through their own similar journey that might look different. You might be a tiny, fluffy creature that lives in the Amazon that's just trying to find some food and go take a nap.

Elizabeth Wilson 11:24

God.

Allison Lau 11:25

you might be dealing with, you know, the busyness of suburban life and then the United States or whatever that looks like. But there's some kind of universal experiences that. Defy species. And that I think is what's so interesting about some of the animals I've gotten to work with.

Elizabeth Wilson 11:42

Yeah. Um, I wanna take a little bit of, uh, divergence here and talk about, because you had firsthand experience with it in 2025, what the publication world for memoir is looking like right now. Because I think there are a lot of people like you and I who are writing memoirs that want to put it out into the world that know. That our stories that seem maybe every day to us do have so much value when they're constructed in such a way for a reader, and keep hitting that wall against the traditional publishing machinery because we aren't celebrities. It seems like celebrity memoirs sort of taken off and taken up all of the space. And I, I

Allison Lau 12:32

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 12:32

perception was or is about that, seeing as you have firsthand experience.

Allison Lau 12:39

Yeah. Well, a couple things that I was surprised by, because like I said, I didn't set out to write a memoir, so this was not, I kind of backed my way into a memoir by accident, which is a beautiful thing. But first of all, I thought that memoir an autobiography are synonymous. And so that has been an interesting thing to learn that memoir is a totally different beast, uh, and that. There are literary memoirs that are a little bit more, I would say, focused on like the craft and the storytelling than just giving people a view into someone's life. And so I think that that is kind of a, an important lens through which, you know, my agent was packaging my memoir, which is that this is, this is a story that's not, um. I'm not, I'm not super cool. I haven't done anything that other people haven't already done, but it's the way in which you tell the story that becomes relatable. So I, I think that the space is being dominated by celebrities because we've seen some really successful memoirs in the last couple years and some really successful young memoirists too. Jeanette McCurdy's. I'm glad my mom died. Like that is a huge bestselling memoir because it's beautifully written and incredibly powerful

Elizabeth Wilson 13:57

it.

Allison Lau 13:57

she's still young. You,

Elizabeth Wilson 14:00

I absolutely hated it. I don't think it qualifies. She did zero reflection. It was all just told like in the moment. I, I think it, it's not truly a memoir, but anyway, side note, that's my rant.

Allison Lau 14:14

I.

Elizabeth Wilson 14:14

who listens regularly knows. I hate that one.

Allison Lau 14:17

I love that hot take. I have not had a chance to really talk about it with other memoirs, so this

Elizabeth Wilson 14:24

I just felt cheated by the

Allison Lau 14:26

fascinating.

Elizabeth Wilson 14:26

I got all the way to the end and then she's like. And all this terrible stuff happened that like you as the reader had to live with her because she wrote it in present tense and put you right in it with her.

Allison Lau 14:38

Oh yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 14:39

never went back to process. Like now that she has this awareness, like what does any of that reflection, what do any of those experiences mean to her now as an adult? Like, I felt robbed of that insight. Like you just traumatized me with you and now I don't even get to see the like. The reflection that you've had about your lived experiences, and I think that's the key to memoir. I think that what's, that's what makes it stand out from autobiography is like, think she gets away with it. I think a lot of celebrities get away with it because people are just interested in their life. Right. But I, I don't love that the tag of such and such a memoir is being placed on everything because I think, like you said just a minute ago, I think they're actually autobiographies most of the time.

Allison Lau 15:29

Yeah. Yeah. That is fascinating take, and I love that. And you're absolutely right. It does. Not that we're trying to pick on Jeanette McCurdy here, but you're right, that book does feel more like an autobiography in the sense that it's kind of giving people the behind the scenes of a life that most people think they already know about,

Elizabeth Wilson 15:49

Right. It's

Allison Lau 15:50

whereas, you know,

Elizabeth Wilson 15:51

like Child Star.

Allison Lau 15:52

yeah,

Elizabeth Wilson 15:53

I wanna read that all day. But don't call it a memoir 'cause it's not a memoir.

Allison Lau 15:59

I like that distinction. Yeah. I. Because of that, because we're seeing celebrities who are being branded as memoirs and put into that category, it's not leaving a lot of space for. Those voices that are, that don't have a platform yet that are pretty, I can tell all of our listeners from personal experience, I think your story's fascinating, Elizabeth. I can't wait to read your memoir. And I think it's just as powerful as anyone else who's out there with, you know, a million plus TikTok followers because you're a real person and you've lived a real life and have a real story, and that often is the most powerful kind of memoir that there is. Um. I think that the publishing industry is scared right now. At least traditional publishing people aren't ready for it and they aren't willing to take a gamble on someone that's a small, small, unknown author when they have those big ticket celebrities that are sitting there in their red boxes,

Elizabeth Wilson 17:01

Well, and I just think it's a great point to make that. Traditional publishing is a business, right? So it does

Allison Lau 17:07

yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 17:07

mean that your story does not have actual value. They are truly not assessing it in that way. They are assessing how many copies they think they can market and sell. So if you have a big name attached to it, that's already like leaps and bounds above the uses and of the world. And it does not mean that our stories won't be impactful to our readers. And that's why, you know, it's important to. Potentially explore different ways of publishing for those of us who that feels out of reach. Or you can do as you've done, you know, take a pause on it, write something different, hopefully get your name out there that way, and then maybe use that to piggyback on and get, uh, a traditional publishing deal. But, uh, I, what I think so many people. What I worry is that a lot of memoirs get discouraged in those query trenches, even just getting an agent because the agents already

Allison Lau 18:04

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 18:05

that they can't sell it to a publisher with a, you know, no name author. And it's unfortunate, but that's where I think cool way, in this beautiful day and age that we are writing in. Is that we have access to indie publishers who are looking for these kinds of works. They, they're truly the art itself and not focused on, you know, the name of the author on the front cover.

Allison Lau 18:37

Yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 18:37

and also platforms like podcast where people are seeking out those options for. Hearing from real people. Um, one of the book club books, I don't know in what order our episodes will come out, but one we just recently read is The Way to the River by Elizabeth Gilbert and I, we picked it because there has been a little bit of. Mixed reviews about this book and maybe how out of touch she is because of her celebrity status. She talks a lot about in the book about how much money she's spending here and there and being able to solve her problems through this and then. Oh, my celebrity ness means that I might get recognized in these meetings and that's, you know, tough for me to manage. And so there's a little bit of like, I think a perception of like a woe is me aspect to this particular book that she's written as opposed to her earlier, you know, eat, pray, love. Before she was a, a well-known name. And so I think there is a very strong interest The stories that feel like they're coming from everyday people like you and me. There, there's an interest in not just reading how a child star managed or, or how Elizabeth Gilbert with her millions dealt with the death of her partner. Like there's definitely some, some interesting stuff in there, but that's a little bit harder to get to and. In this kind of post pandemic world, I think we're all so desperate to to people, to find people like us, to build community that feels real and authentic. so,

Allison Lau 20:25

Yes,

Elizabeth Wilson 20:26

That's my stance on why I think there's such a need for all of these individual voices and memoirs and why we can't stop pushing against what I understand big businesses, you know? Focused on,

Allison Lau 20:41

yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 20:41

the end all be all.

Allison Lau 20:44

I totally agree, and like you said, we, we are striving for social connection and that can even circle back to what I've spent years researching is we are a social species. Our bonds are, I would say the most important part of us existing. The, the quality of the relationships that you have around you has huge impacts on every other aspect of your health and wellbeing and. You're right. We wanna connect with people. We wanna know that we're not alone. We wanna have that real, authentic interaction. And you're absolutely right that that's something that memoir can do really well. And it's something that I feel like is, um, becoming popular, like you said, on podcasts or on platforms like substack, where you're having this really direct. Immediate connection with the person who's listening or the person who's reading in a way that feels like you are sitting there sharing a cup of coffee with someone. Even if you live across the world, even if you're watching this three months after it was recorded. It's a bit of a delayed conversation, but still a conversation as opposed to someone just sitting up in an ivory tower just yelling about their woes and their life. Um, so I absolutely agree with you and I think that there's huge value, not only to. Putting your story out in the world with people to read, but for you to write your own story. I have learned so much more about myself in the past year than I ever have prior to this because of the experience of having to choose what stories I put on the page, what really tough moments in my life. Dig back into and try to share with people. And that's, that whole process is a really interesting like lens through which to see your past and to see kind of how you got where you are. So I would say that there's huge value in, in the self-exploration that comes with memoir and that scares some people. I understand that it's not an easy process, it's a scary process, but one that's incredibly rewarding and enriching if you're able to give yourself the permission to do it.

Elizabeth Wilson 22:51

Yeah, and I think that point is exactly why I get on my high horse about celebrities using this memoir tag. And that

Allison Lau 22:58

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 22:58

comes out about Elizabeth Gilbert's book that we're doing for book club, I will be saying something along the lines of, you know, she really focuses on her partner's story and her partner's feelings and her partner's thoughts. And I routinely found myself

Allison Lau 23:13

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 23:13

questioning like. Well, how do you feel about all this? Where, where are you in this? Like, I understand what you're doing, you're telling me your actions, but like how do you feel like, and part of this is because at times when I'm going through my own edits, I'm being prompted by my developmental editor to dig in a little bit more of like, okay, so I understand this, I understand why you chose this, but like, what are you feeling in this moment? And it is such

Allison Lau 23:41

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 23:42

opening. Task and it's so hard that when I as a reader am reading something labeled as a memoir from a celebrity, I feel cheated. When they haven't done that work, I don't feel like it's

Allison Lau 23:56

Yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 23:57

for them to put on that memoir label knowing that that sells better than calling it an autobiography and

Allison Lau 24:04

Yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 24:05

done the work to. Expose themselves in the way that memoir requires.

Allison Lau 24:15

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 24:15

I, I know that that's, you know, the cost that I'm paying in order to put my work out there and sell it. And so I kind of feel like cheated as a reader when memoirs don't do it.

Allison Lau 24:30

You absolutely right.

Elizabeth Wilson 24:32

of, you know, spectrum as far as what, you know, quality stuff versus what I'm ranting about. Like there are definitely some good ones out there. I'm not saying blanketly that celebrity memoir is not memoir, but it just seems like they,

Allison Lau 24:45

Yeah,

Elizabeth Wilson 24:45

skirt the rules more often than, than other people. Um, let's hop into a little bit about developmental editing and, and how essential that step is for a memoirist because. We are so close to our own stories it

Allison Lau 25:02

Oh, yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 25:03

essential have someone else's eyes on it. Not only is that the, maybe first practice a memoirist has in even sharing their stories, allowing someone else to read them in in its entirety. It certainly was for me. I had shared, you know, particular scenes or chapters with people before, but. Never the whole, the whole manuscript until I gave it to my developmental editor. do you

Allison Lau 25:32

yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 25:33

memoirs through that? What do you hope to, you know, provide to them as a developmental editor?

Allison Lau 25:41

Oh it is. First of all, being a developmental editor is the funnest thing in the world for me, and it is also such a huge, like honor and a privilege to be a part of people's journey in finding what their voice is and finding the story that needs to be on the page. So I have to preface it with that because I don't, I don't get to do what I do without really brilliant people who are willing to share and willing to start putting their story out to the world. Uh. The way that I approach people's memoirs when I am working as a developmental editor is I just, I step in their shoes and I say, let's have a brief chat. I like to know very little going into it actually. I like to know, Hey, what is your goal for this book? What did, what are, um, how urgent is this book for you? What timeline are you working under? What's held you back so far? Just a couple simple questions from there. I take the manuscript draft and I just live it. I tend to set aside a couple days and I truly just sit and read the entire memoir all the way through and just live it. And then I go on a long drive and I take a shower and I just ruminate on it. And in that same way that our writing often happens the best way whenever we're, whenever you don't have a keyboard in front of you, that's when the best ideas come. Same thing with other people's books. And so I get to go just kind of sit on it, think on it. And then approach it afresh. And there's often big holes that writers don't see themselves because we are way too close to our own stories. And so getting to kind of gently and kindly poke and say, Hey, there's something missing here. There's a piece here that you're not telling us. There's. Let's see, I see that the network is struggling.

Elizabeth Wilson 27:31

You're good.

Allison Lau 27:32

Okay, perfect. Um, there are often holes that writers don't realize exist, and so I feel like my job as a developmental editor for memoir specifically, is less that I am guiding the story, but more that I am reading between the lines and detecting where something is missing. Those are often the most powerful stories, and those are the stories that people need permission to put on the page. And I always have writers say, oh, but that feels too indulgent. Or, who am I to tell a story about this? I'm only X years old, or I've only accomplished blah, blah, blah. And to say, no, the, that's the story that people want to hear. That's the part of the journey that I think is most rewarding. For me to be a part of and for me to get to pull out of the author. So it's a very intangible thing, and I'm sitting here and the hands are starting to go because really I feel like being a developmental editor, it's not moving commas, it's not changing lines. It is much more of a getting in the weeds with your author and walking that journey with them to figure out what needs to end up in the final product.

Elizabeth Wilson 28:50

Well, and I think too, especially when we're talking about memoir, there's just so much building up and validating and confer, confirming for the writer that their story is valuable, that they're. You know that there's so much beauty already there and it's just a matter of, you know, shaping it, maybe bringing something else in. Um, and, and that's why, that's one of the reasons why I think finding a good developmental editor is so important for anyone looking to write the kind of memoir that's going to really grip the reader. Certainly

Allison Lau 29:28

Yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 29:28

there's like the self-publishing track where. You know, conceivably a, a writer could write out their manuscript, they could, you know, maybe go on Fiverr and do like a small copy edit or something, move, you know, fixing the grammar, the punctuation, and then publish it on, you know, Amazon's KDP. Right. But in

Allison Lau 29:49

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 29:49

get to a finished product of a memoir where you really have not only like the Plot story arc, character development, pacing, all hitting at the right beats. But also just the depth that we as readers expect from memoir that same thing I've been ranting about in this episode. order to

Allison Lau 30:17

Yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 30:17

into that so much of the time, we do need that experienced and trusted outside person to kind of mirror back for us where those gaps are. I certainly had some that I had not noticed in my own memoir when I had it edited, um, this summer. one of the key things was that, you know, I say my main theme is loneliness, but when I chopped off the first 30,000 words of the book, what happens is the reader now comes into my story at a time where I actually am finding community for the first time in my life. But they don't know that they see

Allison Lau 30:55

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 30:55

me saying I'm lonely, but, and, and me being really invested in this community, but not having the backstory now of, you know, like. All the friendships that fizzled out, the difficulty in connecting socially with other people. Um,

Allison Lau 31:11

yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 31:11

way I relied on my accomplishments to give me any sort of like social standing whatsoever. And my editor was so good to highlight that missing piece that came about because of my previous, like rewrites and cuts that I had done. and, and that's just one example of the way that a developmental editor like yourself is so essential. the writing process.

Allison Lau 31:36

And I think that I am, I'm gonna make an assumption here, but I'm guessing you cut those 30,000 words because you're like, Hey, this is not the most interesting part of the story. But for the reader, that's a vital part of the story and getting to know you and getting to to care about you and care about this journey that you're on. And I think that one of the most important things about being a, a good developmental editor is being able to tell your author. This is what you're good at. This is the part of your writing that shines. This is where your voice is coming through in a way that people are going to be just captured and captivated by what you're saying. So much of my, of my, you know, job as an editor is to actually tell people what they're great at so that the 20% of my comments that are like, and we should add this over here, then you know what to put in that space. Because I think it, it's easy to assume that an editor is going to come in and take a chain saw to your manuscript and tell you where it doesn't work and tell you it's terrible and how to fix it. That's not the best way to go about writing a book. You need to know how to build people up and how to tell them where their voice shines through. And honestly, that's the fun part. That's the community part of it is being able to be that person that says, Hey, I see you. I see your story. These are the parts that for me hit really hard. These are the parts as a writer myself I know are important to be on the page and here's how I think we might be able to pull that out of you. It's not always the right solution, but at least it gets the conversation going and it gets the author thinking about things in a different way. Uh, but at the end of the day, it has to be a kind relationship and a trusting relationship because it is memoir like you keep saying, is one of those genres where you need to do a lot of work and it's, I feel like we are unlicensed therapists, honestly set loose on a book and it really is that space where you have to approach it with a lot of care.

Elizabeth Wilson 33:35

You know, and I think For someone who hasn't experienced book editing before, they might be imagining that it's like getting your college papers back and seeing the red ink everywhere, where it's all critique, it's all, you know, feedback of this isn't right. This is, you know, you miss this punctuation here. You miss that and, and thinking that that's what they're signing up for. And if you have that misconception, oh my gosh, how vulnerable that must feel to be putting like this. This part of your story into someone else's hands and afraid that you're gonna get a bleeding page back, you know, covered in strikeouts and everything else. But, I hope that this episode as well as other ones where we speak to other editors will help who is hesitant or nervous about that process to realize that. It's some of the most beautiful collaboration you can do. I

Allison Lau 34:34

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 34:35

thrilled when I got back my edits and I got to see my editor. Really just gave me her in the moment reactions. Now she works

Allison Lau 34:45

Yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 34:45

differently than you, and we'll have her on the podcast too, where she puts in her comments as she initially reads, so she does not have the like full read through before she starts making comments. So I am seeing her like moment by moment reactions as she's like. gosh, this is amazing. I'm so rooting for you here. And then something bad happens and she's like, oh, I did not see that coming. This is devastating. I'm crying. Are you crying? You know, and, and I got to on this beautiful rollercoaster ride through her, reading of my book. And it was a beautiful, like, status check that I am, I'm

Allison Lau 35:26

Yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 35:26

moments of tension. I'm relieving it. The reader is going to potentially feel this here, which is what I want them to feel. And I want them to be hopeful in this point just so I can rip it out from under them because that's how it felt for me living it, and I'm glad that

Allison Lau 35:42

Yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 35:43

has been created properly on the page. It was just such a great check, pulse check really of. the book and where it's at, or you know, in the moments where she was confused or misinterpreting something, then Okay, great. This is a moment where I need to add some clarity for my reader because while it all makes sense to me in my head, and I think I've provided the details on the page, you know, maybe that key detail was several chapters ago and I need to remind the reader, you know, like, oh yes, I've already agreed to do this thing. So here's where we're, we're at now. Um,

Allison Lau 36:15

Yeah, that's great that you mentioned that actually, because it's, I was not super clear on that. So I do something similar and I don't, I don't typically. If I'm working in Google Docs, I make sure that it's not shared with the author because I don't necessarily want them to be seeing my yelling in real time. But pretty much I just aggressively yell my enthusiasm the whole way through the book. So in a similar way. It's probably less eloquent than it sounds like, uh, your editor gave you. But I tend to just kind of keep caps lock on the whole time and just, just kind of do the pterodactyl, hands on the keyboard of just crazy, ridiculous comments. Uh, so like letting the author, like you said, see my emotional process as a reader, and I will even say as a reader, blah, and it's just keyboard smashing. And then as an editor. Oh my gosh, your prose is beautiful. This is so strong. And kind of give those two sides of the coin so that the author knows kind of where I'm coming from. I hold those comments back until I deliver the edit letter, because then the edit letter is what I've sat on thought about, put on my editorial hat, really digested. So then I give kind of this overall more narrative, but kind of, you know. It's more structural commentary on big picture things where we could work on pacing, on story structure, on, um, character development and things like that. But I think that those two pair nicely because then you can kind of see where is this edit letter and then where did that come from and where, what state of the book was the book in, when. I had a chance to read it and touch it and kind of what things hit well and which ones didn't. And often there are things where I go leave a comment on page 30 about something that doesn't make sense and isn't working. And it turns out, yeah, at the end of the book, it all makes sense and it all ties together beautifully. And that was intentional on the author's behalf. And sometimes it is something that we need to tweak or address or fix. So I. I think that that is a huge value, and I'm glad that your editor did that for you too, because you're right. It's very rare that you have someone that pretty much sits there and just shares their reaction in real time to your whole book.

Elizabeth Wilson 38:42

Yeah.

Allison Lau 38:42

'cause once our books are out in the world, we just get people that'll maybe give you five star rating and a nice review, send you a message, OMG. Just read your book. And I loved it, but we're not going to get much more than. Those kind of short little bursts of affirmation or feedback, whereas in the editorial process, you have someone who's just in it with you, and that's such a cool relationship.

Elizabeth Wilson 39:07

Yeah, and you know, I, I think. There is a, a pretty decent cost to hiring a developmental editor, and it is one of those steps that I think sometimes writers, especially those of us who are choosing to self-publish and, and assuming all of the financial burden of getting the book all the way up and out there and marketed and everything, it, it becomes one of those things that you question whether you should pursue or cut. And. I just hope that listeners who are joining us for this episode can understand the incredible value and just the perce of it, especially for memoir. But I mean any, even fiction, you know, you want to know those

Allison Lau 39:52

Yep.

Elizabeth Wilson 39:52

You want to know the, the strings that maybe you started to weave but then dropped out, or where you're just not hitting the mark or any of that stuff, and it's so.

Allison Lau 40:04

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 40:04

So important, to, to have that person. And also you benefit at that point of the writing stage of having a cheerleader, you know, of

Allison Lau 40:17

Oh yes.

Elizabeth Wilson 40:18

who is there advocating for you, like you said, telling you where your strengths are so that you can lean into those, maybe highlighting some of the parts where there needs to be some shoring up and so that makes your end product so much better. And then you also have someone that like, you get a little further down the road, if you start to make some changes and you suddenly a question, you've got someone you can reach out to who knows your full manuscript and can give you some quick feedback, um, if you're stumbling later on. And I just think all of that is, is so important. So as we wrap up this episode, I wonder if there is any sort of, I don't know. Hack that you used, that you found helpful or key advice you would recommend to those who are interested in writing memoir

Allison Lau 41:12

Yeah.

Elizabeth Wilson 41:12

like, I don't know. Quick tip, as we wrap up this episode.

Allison Lau 41:19

I would say I am a procrastinator and I'm someone who absolutely dies in the face of structure. I am the worst journal, worst journaler that has ever existed. The amount of journals I have started, done for three days and then left behind terrible. So if you were someone that falls into that category, like me, open up a Word document. Google Docs, pages, whatever word processor you have. I am not sponsored by any of them. Open 'em up and just, if you were to write a memoir, what story would you put on the page and write a couple words. And you don't, you're not writing a full book. Just, just put a little something on the page, see what happens. If you hate it, cool. Close it. Walk away. I think that the best way that I've tricked myself into writing is if I was going to write a memoir, what would I do? What? What application would I open up? Would I scribble it on a Post-it note? Would I put it in my notes app on my phone? Would it be a voice memo? Ask yourself that, and then just kind of give yourself permission to kind of play for a little bit and see what starts to come out. If you like it, amazing. If you don't, then you had the bravery to put a couple words on the page, and now you can call yourself a writer. That's phenomenal.

Elizabeth Wilson 42:38

love it. I love it. Thank you, Allison, for joining me today. Um, again, thank you for being one of our guests at our upcoming memoir Summit. I hope listeners will tune in for that as well. Uh, we'll put all of the like social media links and websites and stuff for you in our show notes as well as the. to get on the list to receive links for the Live Memoir Summit coming up on March 14th, and happy writing.

Allison Lau 43:09

Happy writing. Thanks for having me.