Episode 110: [Anna Dao] Multigenerational storytelling shapes a writer's voice and process

Elizabeth Wilson chats with memoir writer Anna Dao about the rich oral storytelling tradition that shaped not just how she writes, but why.

They talk about what it really takes to find your authentic voice on the page, what happens when fear and people-pleasing get in the way of your truth, and what marketing a memoir actually looks like when you're a first-time author doing it all on your own terms.

About our guest, Anna Dao:

Born in Paris, raised under many skies — 

from Bamako to Brussels, from Dakar to New York — Anna Dao carries the songs of her ancestors in her voice. 

Her teachers were the elders of Mali, 

the storytellers who gathered under the moon to share the wisdom of the Good Path. 

Through her journey — across continents and through her own heart —she became a 

bridge between the seen and unseen, 

the modern and the ancestral. 

In her words, “the world is nothing but conversation —the world is nothing but storytelling.” 

A storyteller. A spiritual advisor. A daughter of tradition and transformation. Anna Dao invites us to listen —to remember — 

to become the story we were always meant to tell.

Website: ​https://thehouseoflalla.com​

Facebook: ​annadao2​

Instagram and Threads: ​@annadao7467

 Welcome to the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. If you've ever felt the pull to write your truth, to shape the chaos of real life into something meaningful and to share your journey with the world, you're in the right place. We're your hosts, Elizabeth and Stephanie, writers, coaches, and entrepreneurs who believe in you and know how important it is to find a writing community to guide you on your path to self-publishing.

You’re invited to connect with us by joining our Embodied Writing Experience where you’ll get a writer’s retreat directly to your inbox on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays each week. Whether you’re working on a memoir, a novel, or journaling for yourself, this is an invitation to slow down, tune in, and write with embodied intention.   

Join our Embodied Writing Experience where you’ll get a writer’s retreat directly to your inbox on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays each week. This is an invitation to slow down, tune in, and write with embodied intention.   

Work 1:1 with Memoir Coach Elizabeth Wilson. Book a session here.

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If you prefer to watch our conversations, you can find all of them on our YouTube channel.

You can find us on Instagram and Threads

Transcript

1:17

Welcome writers to another episode of the Inspired Writer Collective podcast. Today I'm so thrilled to introduce you to Anna Dow, who is a memoir writer herself. She's gonna speak today about how her. Background, culture and heritage helped her in her storytelling. And later in the episode we're gonna dig into how she's now going about marketing her memoir. I think there's gonna be so much that you writers will take from her experience and the success that she is finding and how she's marketing her own story. Um, so I welcome you guys and introduce you to Anna. Anna, thank you for joining me here today. Thank you so much, Elizabeth. Uh, thank you to all your listening and viewers for joining us. Uh, I was excited when you offered me this platform to come talk about my own experience, so I'm very happy to be here today. Thank you for having me. Oh, we're so thrilled to have you. I would love if you could just give us, um, a depiction of what storytelling looks like from the West African culture and background, and a little bit of insight into how that influenced your own writing. Storytelling is, uh, just. How we are, we, we, we are born into it. Meaning that, because at the time my generation, uh, I'm in my sixties, uh, grew up with the extended family around grandparents, great grandparents for some, and I am originally from Mali, which is in the West Africa. And, uh, at a time where the elders, grandparents, and great grandparents. Not all of them did go to school, and so we have the traditional teaching, but basically volved into our lives in terms of every night, for as long as I can remember, I, my, my, my grandmother, my great-grandfathers, my grandfathers, they all were telling stories. So every night after dinner, uh, you gather around, uh, on the terrace. And because the young people are the one who go to sleep early, then they have, you have tales. And the tales just introduced me to a world of basically paying attention to what was around me, but also because it. It included animals and it included the parallel world, the invisible world with the genes and the angels. It also introduced me to the non-visible world, and from there, learning to accept that the world is not just what you can see and smell and, but that there is another world. So building, uh, uh, teaching you to trust your intuition. The voice that we have. The voice that we have within. And that basically, later on when I decided that, or when I was ready, I don't think when I really decided, but when the re the story was ready to be told, kind of was regarding light because the thing that is tr. True in memoir, and I believe in every writing is it has to be true to you before you reach out anybody else, Elizabeth, it has to be true to you. If it's not true to you, it's not going to resonate with anybody else because people, readers. Are intelligent enough and intuitive enough to know exactly when they are reading a book, which one is really comes from the heart, and which one is a kind of bunch of words put together just because you feel that you have something to tell. Hmm. Yeah, that's so true. That sounds like such a magical childhood though. Like, and maybe I'm idealizing it, but like the idea of getting to have that multi-generational wisdom imparted through, you know, storytelling that is not always rooted in reality, that plays into imagination or things outside of your, you know, typical five senses. Like, I think that's so. So cool. And I know when we spoke before you talked about how so much of it is told by using like Proverbs or stories Yes. To like, just like how memoir does where like you're not trying to speak necessarily directly to the person and their current situation, but you're kind of talking around it, talking about the broader themes a lot. More so welcoming someone into the story so that they can take what they're ready to take from it. And for me, that's what I love so much about the memoir genre is because I think it does a similar thing where it simply invites the reader in to your world, to your truth, as you said. And then they get to take from it what they're ready to take from it. Exactly. And we have a, a saying, uh uh, now that you're talking about products, we have a saying that, uh. If you, the reason why you tell a story are for three things, right? Number one, those who already know, it helps them remember and see how much they have. They have, they have accomplished. Those who don't know, learn to know, and those who really don't care can decide. But it's, if, even if it's just entertainment, then it has accomplish its purpose because it's either to entertain you, to educate you, or to inspire you. So one of those three. If you have one of those three in your story and it, it, it does fat to the people, to the readers, then you have accomplished your purpose. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. That makes me think of too, like what they say in like the sobriety circles and stuff. Like for aa, they talk about just like coming into the room, just being in that space and you will get something out of it simply by just being in that environment. And I feel like that plays to like that third group that you spoke about that maybe doesn't care, but there's. Might, something might absorb that a seed might be planted that later gets a chance to develop, but mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I think that's, that's beautiful. Now, how, how has that shaped or impacted your memoir writing when you finally had a story, like, I love that you, I forget how you phrased it, but it, it really, you phrased it in a way that sounded like the story was ready to be born. So when that story was ready, um, what did that writing process initially look like for you? It went, it was easy and, uh, is in the way that I had found my truth because for me, the hardest thing, the story was there. Mm-hmm. But it needed to be, uh, in a frame that I could process, meaning that. You can find your voice, but at the time, let me, let me just talk about what happened. So I knew I had a story, but how am I going to tell it? And when I first started thinking about writing, at the time, there was a lot of self-help books. Mm-hmm. And I was. Advise, but somebody who wanted to be my agent at the time, but listen, you need to look at what's out there and kind of you, uh, be similar to them so that it becomes relatable to people. And so I went into the, the, the thinking mode of, let me find the 12 steps of fixing your life. Nevermind that it wasn't how I was taught to do things. It had nothing to do with who I was culturally. And there was nothing for me to hold onto in terms of how do I identify with this, right? And it sounded the first drafts from that point of view, Elizabeth sounded fake. I can so agree. There was no way, there was no way that I could work through that and, uh, get out something. I could get out something, but it was never going to be my story because it sounded so fake. It had nothing to do with me. Mm-hmm. And the, and then because of my culture, it was, yes, I know that you have a culture, but you know, forget about that. You are here now. Try to embrace, and I said, but can I embrace? Where I am right now without erasing who I was then. Yeah. And Bridge, do they have to be mutually exclusive or can I take the best of both worlds? Take what the model, the living here has allowed me to, to, to, to be in terms of, uh, uh, freedom and that creativity and then. But also take into account my culture and all the things that were taught that shaped me and may help me find my way to write this memoir. And so I had to number one, that was number one. Number two in the story, because it was challenging because I went through a number of trauma. What do you tell and what do you live alone? What is worth telling and work through? Then my own process of the embarrassment, the shame, the pain, the resentment, and uh. I didn't want to hurt anybody. I didn't want anybody to kind of feel embarrassed. By, by, by my, by my words, even though their action was, that triggered my words, right? So I was telling the truth, but I was kind of limiting myself and say, oh my God, they're going to be so embarrassed if I tell that I don't want to embarrass them. They're family members. I love them. So I had to. Kind of look into myself and process, why do, why am I such a people pleaser? Why is their opinion more important than my truth? Right? And if they, if I write my experience and then they do not agree with it, or they are shocked and, and they have been paid, how much of a relationship do I want to keep? And under what circumstances? Because I have to live with myself. Right? And so it is when I had work all his outs with the help of my late grandmother then who told me that, you know, when you, when you're doing this, Anna, are you telling your truth? And I was like, uh, yes. Then say, do it because it's your truth and your truth. Nobody has to agree with it. Because even if you said, that was my late grandmother, she said, even if you say something about me that I do not agree with. It's your truth, it's how you feel about it. And that's valid, and that's, that should be good enough. So once I did, once I kind of, uh, went through that, then it became easier. That's why I say it became easier to write because it means that I embraced my emotions and then I led them. I let my internal process process it so that then it can come out, came out as words. For the readers. That's such a common concern that so many people have when they're writing their memoirs. And I quickly wanna say, I also started with this combo of like self-help anecdote from my own life kind of thing. And then when I re reread that initial draft, like the parts where I was like talking directly to the reader and very like, you should do this and you can do this, and if you haven't considered this, try this. It just didn't sound like me. And I, I had that same. Realization that I needed to just keep my story just about me and not let people take what they wanted from it, right? Mm-hmm. Um, but then this challenge that you're talking about here about what is your truth and the judgment that you might receive from people who see themselves in your story, who, whose story butts up next to yours? Like, how do you handle that? And I think what you hit on is what? Something that I talk to the women that I coach through my memoir coaching program through, and, and it's talking about. Keeping it rooted in your feelings and your experience of the event versus trying to state it in such a way as if it is concrete fact and what their motives were or what their things may have been. But if you keep the lens, if you keep the focus on. Here's how I experienced it. Here's how I felt it. Here's how I interpreted it. Then it does still leave a beautiful amount of room for other people's stories and for them to disagree and not feel like you are putting some kind of capital T truth into stone. You are simply speaking your truth from your perspective, and I, I think that once. If you initially come to a story, I initially came to some of my traumatic stories with a sense of vengeance and I'm gonna, you know, get some justice and I'm gonna write this wrong. You know, that was done to me. But by the time I went through a couple of round of rounds of edits, like it didn't look, look like that at all.'cause there's so much evolution and healing that you have as the writer, as you're going through this process. But ultimately keeping the focus on. The feelings that came about, the ways in which you experiencing some sort of trauma, or rationalizing it, or intellectualizing it or how you were processing through it, that's what's gonna be relevant to the reader. That's what they're gonna take from it, and that's typically, I mean, people are gonna be upset if they're upset, right? Mm-hmm. Like you said, you kind of have to decide what space you're gonna give to your truth and mm-hmm. How comfortable you are, you know, standing in that and the ways that that could impact relationships. But if it's a relationship that's only held together because you're silencing your truth, then maybe it's not a relationship that's has value carrying forward. So it just kind of depends, um, where you sit with it. But the evolution you go through as a writer in that process is also incredibly impactful. Did you experience that for yourself? It was therapeutic. Absolutely. Because, uh, and maybe more true for memoir than anything else, I don't think that you can rush a memoir. Mm-hmm. Because as you dig in to kind of pull out the things that need to be, that are going to be the story, you also are dealing with it. Years after it had happened, or decades after it had happened, and so viewing it from your rear view mirror, pulling it out and facing it again. You're going to have emotion, emotions are going to rise, right? Uh, things that you don't remember are going to come up, uh, whether it's pain, whatever it is, but it's going to come up. And then you are gonna have what happened, uh, uh, with me is that then as the healing process happened, as when I was putting the words down. Mm-hmm. Right? And that's where it takes time because after putting the words down, uh. There is, there's a editorial process because first you put the raw words as they co, as they come out with your heart with everything that is like in you at that moment. Mm-hmm. But everything that is in you at that moment, if you only keep that, is going to be a very, like a high, uh, uh, uh, mix of emotions, but it's not necessarily going to be the best stories. Right. So there is that editorial process that you have to come back where you kind of, after you come down, that's at least after I came down, sat looked at it and said, oh, okay, yes, I get it, but you know what? You need to come down here because I understand when you were writing their passages, when I was writing them, I was still in pain. So the pain is the thing that you see most, but I didn't want the the story to be lost in the pain. The pain is part of the story, but the pain is not the cannot be the story. Right. It's the catalyst, but it's not the whole plot. Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so that's basic. That's also, uh, the basic and something that you said, uh, that, uh, I, I, I, I think I, I totally agree with you, is that when you, when you were referring back to the time where, you know, you wanted to talk as I have solutions for you, and the reason why that didn't, the 10 steps or the 12 steps to, uh, to. Life fulfills or the lesson learned didn't work for me. It's because that's not the way how this, the elders taught us. Mm-hmm. Just as you have storytelling that tells at night, uh, when we were playing, you know, because, uh, children of the same age, same group age, always played together, we're sing together and basically when you made a decision, I remember my grandmothers and grandfathers always asking me, uh. I have this problem. What did you think? It wasn't, what solution did you bring to the problem, but what did you think? How was your thinking process? How did you come to that solution? Before even telling me what to do, and then after I said, well, uh, this is how well you were angry, so you let your anger. Make the decision for you. And then my question would be, so how would you have solved it? Well, you know, did you take into account that maybe in the heat of a debate were hurting such and such feelings, or maybe they didn't have? And so kind of giving perspective before telling me that's how I would do it, so that throughout the process you are invited to always think things through. That's beautiful. Always there is a process and the reason why to me it's so relevant is that even in our world today, uh, sometimes you get asked questions and people are in such a hurry. To answer a question is, is basically something that is telling you to pause. To reflect before you provide an answer. But we are in such a light. You know, everything has to be right away, right away, right away. But sometimes we think we forget to give ourself that grace period of realizing that we don't, first of all, we don't have the answer to everything. And second of all, take a moment so that you find what is true for you. What is true for you if I, what is true for me might not be something that you agree with Elizabeth, but that's okay. Right? We can come, we can agree to disagree or we can find compromises, but I do not need. To have the answer right away and I and I, and I certainly don't know everything, and I like that because that attitude kind of kept me in a state of humility where I'm always seeking, when I'm always looking for the truth. My truth doesn't need to be true for everybody, but as long as it's my truth and I'm comfortable and but it's so important, whether it's fiction writing, nonfiction, writing, memoir, it is so important in storytelling to be able to say that you're coming from your place of truth. Anybody'cause your place of truth, I promise you will resonate with others. Hmm. You're making me think too, a lot about how like, as a parent, I'm so quick to wanna solve the problem, right? Like, mm-hmm. My daughter's having an issue, I've got a solution, I'm gonna like quickly volunteer the solution. But this is really making me think like how our job as parents is more like. Teach your child the process of solving their own problems, right? So like what you said about how your, the elders would then encourage you, like, well, what's your thought process around this? What, what, how did you get to this solution? You know, like to, to help grease those wheels and, and create those patterns for yourself so that as you grow up, you can then do that for yourself without having to be prompted, like, okay, am I really thinking through this? Is there something else I need to consider? Have I, you know. I, I love that. I think that's something that I want to apply. And also, and also Elizabeth, it gives you a voice. Mm-hmm. It teaches you to hear your own voice if, uh, somebody comes to you, right. And instead of saying, but okay, this is what I would've done. You stopped telling the, that child. Well, what did you think? How did you feel? How did you see this problem, and what were some of the solutions that you thought about? Then I think the undertone behind it is that you are encouraging that child to have to form their own opinion. Mm-hmm. To be able to express and defend that opinion. Regardless of don't, don't look at right or wrong, have an opinion, and be confident enough to express yourself. Defend it if you need to, but also be open by then interjecting what your solution or what you thought of it, but then be open to hear something else that has nothing to do with maybe how you approached it so that. You make the bridge between how you thought it was supposed to be done and what that person is bringing on the table that you hadn't thought about. Right? Yeah. So true. So once you eventually overcame, like these hesitations around sharing your story and you were going to, um, write your truth. Mm-hmm. How long was your memoir writing process, would you say? Uh, before, when the real draft, the true draft started. A year and a half, two years. Okay. Yeah, I think that's pretty typical. And maybe even on the like lower end for a first time, like a person writing something of long form for the first time. Yes. That makes, that makes sense. Yeah. Two years because I was, and the reason why I, the first draft and then I think I went through the editorial process because at some point, um, you get tired of hearing your own voice. You have to give that outside perspective. You have story so well that it's like, okay, I, I'm, I'm, I'm good now I need somebody else. Mm-hmm. And that's the best decision, honestly, Elizabeth, that's the best decision that I've made, was to be able to choose to go through two rounds of editorial process before even the submission process, because having two people who didn't, had, didn't know each other, that had no clue, read the story and come back with feedback. Help me, first of all, put my ego in check in terms of realizing that, okay, the story is not perfect, so it can, it still has room for improvement, improve it, accept or refuse the editorial changes, right? Make sure what the story resonated, take the criticism in. And once that was then done, the story was polished enough for me to sub to go through the submission process, right? So once you had your book in hand finding Lala's Ana Yes. What did that feel like for you? And were you immediately like, oh, I've gotta tell everyone about this story. Or like, was there a little bit of like, uh, any sort of trepidation or fear about then broadcasting the story and marketing your story? Trepidation and fear trepidation because it was a labor of love. Yeah. It was really, this was truly a labor of love, fear, because then I had to tackle the other part of a journey, which is marketing and getting rewards out. Mm-hmm. And that was something that foreign to me. Into so many memoir writers, and one of the pieces that I think keeps a lot of people either stuck and not moving forward, or solely pursuing a traditional publishing route where they think that the publisher's gonna take care of all of that for them. Although we say over and over again on this podcast that if you're a debut author, even in traditional publishing, they're gonna expect you to do your own marketing. Yeah. So what did, what did that process look for, like for you initially, how have you evolved your marketing? How have you gotten more comfortable and what, what sort of successes have you seen? Okay, so initially I was shy. Because I didn't like talking about myself. It was like, oh my gosh, why? Why do I have to talk about myself? Why can't you just write the book and tell me that it's wonderful and then we all move on happy? That's be great, wouldn't it Leave a review, tell me it's like excellent, and let's move on, you know? And so it was the first time, uh, creating a website. Mm-hmm. Asking my friends, because at that time then. Working of the courage to go to France and say, I need your help. Yeah. I need to put the words for this book out. And so, uh, you know, uh, learning to talk in front of people like small venues where I build up my voice. And through all that, that allowed me, uh, so the book has been out, this is the second year. Uh, April 24th is going to be the second year that it's been out, and I'm working on my second project right now. But, uh, from the time it went out to today, I can say that it has been a beautiful, challenging and yet concurring my own fear so that, first of all, I recognize my voice and polish it. I can, uh, the first website, I revamped it and built an entire new site because I had a vision. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I knew exactly the purpose of that website, uh, putting myself out there. I have no problem telling you that I am a storyteller. I am a spiritual advisor, and this is why I claim it and own it. As I do that, which what is great Elizabeth, is that doors when have started opening up because I'm putting myself out there, right? Uh, lo and behold, actually I do have something interesting to say and I do have things to say that my in, but interest people. So that was a shock, but I'm over it, right? And so now it's embracing that and embracing. The journey of writing as a business. Yeah. Not the Remen fantasize, romanticized version of, oh, I'm gonna be a writer, I'm gonna write, and then I'm gonna get published. And when everything is going to be, no, it's a business and as a business and compliance, taxes, keeping receipts and making sure that everything is in order. My personal life, I'm. The, the, the private citizen has nothing to do with another businesswoman. Mm-hmm. And those are two entities that really need to be separated for taxes reason first and foremost, but also to know that okay, the revenue that are creating, that are being created in the business belong to the business, what I do for the nine to five belong suit. So it's all that embracing the business and wearing the, the, the hats as as you are. So I'm curious, well, first I wanna highlight, like you described, you know, you, you had your website and you've already since revamped it. And so one thing I wanna highlight is. That we as writers, especially once we put our book out there, you gotta put something up and it's okay if it's not the perfect version, and it's not how you ultimately want it to be. And it's not all polished and everything. There's plenty of time. Um, a as someone said in our recent memoir, summit, uh, your book is new to anyone who hasn't heard about it yet. So there's no, like, there's no dead time of like, oh, you missed your chance to market your book, your book, or You missed your chance because now it's been out for a year or two years. And, and you just have to put something up. So I just wanted to break that down a little bit to highlight for the writers who are listening, that you just have to do something, right? You just have to have a website. It's okay if it's not the polished future version that you envision because you've just finished writing the book and you're doing the launch and you're, you're, you've got a lot of hat, different hats to wear, and it's all new. That's okay. You will have time, you know, to revamp that later on down the road if that's what you need to do. But just, just get something up. As a landing page Absolutely. To direct your readers to, to encourage them to leave reviews, to purchase your book. That that's sufficient in the beginning. Um, absolutely. And then, and if people don't, if people don't know where to find you, if it's not something out there that they can look at. Yeah. What are, what is the incentive to take your book when there are so many people writing and putting books out there? That is your marketing tool. It's, it's your, it's, it's your, your, your, your professional id. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What I'm curious, because I'm not quite yet at the marketing stage, so my book is publishing at the end of June, so I am curious from a personal standpoint, do. Have you felt like it's harder or required more growth or development from you to write the book or to market the book, which has been like the biggest like challenge and growth period for you? Different challenges. I would say the same amount of growth because it all came, writing the book came from initially was a perception that, oh, I have a story to write. It's going to be so easy. And then I came out of that phase. Mm-hmm. Marketing was, well, reality phase, right? Yeah. Marketing came from, oh, well if I write, if I've written a book, what do I need? Marketing. And then I had to come out of that phase. Mm-hmm. And realize that listen, uh, yes, you might think that you are a gift to the world, but the world doesn't know who you are. So, um Right. It could be a great book, but that's not, it could be a great book. People aren't gonna know. Yeah. You know, so then it was when going back to the, uh, uh, drawing board and said, okay, I have this product, but I stand by who can help me put it out there? And it's reaching out to friends. It is having a website, it's having a Facebook page where even if I'm talking in front of uh, two people, I'm going to put it out there and say, listen, I need your support. Come see me. This is what I'm doing. And then because your friends also have friends. So Exactly. So you put it out there, they share with their friends, and then that's how people slowly, my neighborhood, uh, people know that I'm the writer. Because at one of the cafe, I went and brought a book as a sample and asked the cafe owner, because every, at least I'm there once a week. It's my favorite place, one of favorite place to go. So the owner knows me and I went to her and I'm like, I just got this book out. Is it okay if I put the sample here? And she was like, oh, Anna, it's you. That's just fine. And my book has been there, so people who can come, come in every day for recovery, for whatever, see it, the sample is there. And I have orders from people I have never met who went there and said, oh wow, you know, the writer. And then they're like, okay. And she would tell me. Such and such came in and you know, they, they said that, uh, they, they ordered the book. I, I had people, she people ordered the book, put it there, and on Saturdays when I went, I signed the books for them. So every, there are no small spaces. All that to say that there are no small spaces. Your best, your favorite coffee shop is a way to go. Your favorite library is a phase to go. If you do Pilates somewhere, don't hesitate. If you do yoga somewhere, it's right. Everybody, you promote, you're a patron. Of all these other businesses and they're also small businesses. Exactly. Just like being a writer. And they're usually happy to support you. Yeah. Support you. Support them. They support you. Exactly. And so that's why the words gets out and that's why I'm so, I feel so much more confident now because with this, for the past year and a half, almost two years, what happened is that I've been learning. Refining the tools of marketing, and now that I'm almost done doing the second book, it's going to get much easier because now I have, I have the platforms already, right? Yeah. I know where to go for certain things, for publicity. Uh, I know who to call to have and, and, and, and have what you call it. Uh, uh, a poster on their, on their, on their, uh. Uh, on their magazine, how much it costs and all that. Because those are the things that I've learned this time around. And there are the things that make easier, that make things easier. Mm-hmm. So it's a learning process and I am much more comfortable with it today than I was initially when I initially started. Now as you're talking about these different marketing things, I get the impression, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you're not. You know, doing a bunch of tiktoks or Instagram reels or doing like orbiting a lot on social media other than to tell people where they can find you in the real world and that you're mostly in the physical world in like, like be taking part in like readings or, or setting up signings for yourself or things like that. Is that correct? Is that how you've approached marketing? Absolutely, absolutely. Because I am building and walls. The people that I talk to are the people then that go on t on Instagram and on Facebook and follow me. Mm-hmm. Right, right. And so when, when I put on Instagram or TikTok, because that's a lot of work, and this is also the thing that I would like to, to emphasize, quality over quantity. Oh, yes. We get so burned down on the, when we're trying to do all the quantity type stuff. Exactly. I'd rather have two posts in the week than a mini, too many posts. Monday and Thursday, let's say, or Sunday or whatever. Then have one every other day or one. I, I don't want, I want to do something every time that I put something out there because of the effort that it takes. I want something that people are going to be relate, are, are, are going to like or are, are going to find relatable, not necessarily like, let's say relatable, something that is pleasing to their eyes but has content of substance. So I cannot, I don't have substance every day. Sometimes I'm very vain. So there has to be this balance, this balance, right? And if I put something regularly out, something regularly at a rhythm that I can sustain, it's much more productive than trying to chase. Having it every day for me is chasing. Right. It can work for somebody else, but for me it's chasing, because right now I'm still building the platforms. Mm-hmm. But I am also getting exposure. Well that, and for you and so many other writers, you've got another project you're working on, right? Yes. So like, it's not just that your focus shifts from then writing the book to marketing the book because you're marketing book won, but then you are starting another writing project and a lot of people. Have additional writing projects, even if it's not in their full length memoir. Even like I have some plans before I write my next memoir to work on some short stories and to find some nice, you know, literary journals as homes for some of those stories that got cut from this book. And so, you know, we all have other writing projects that we're working on where we can't. All, always just dig a hundred percent into, you know, all of our writing time becomes now marketing time. Absolutely. Um, I, I just think it's such a breath of fresh air to hear you talk about it and the ways that you show up. I know. Um, when we spoke before, I wonder if you would share with this audience, you, you did. You set up some readings and you went and did some readings and had some great success by sharing your own voice, sharing a, you know, portion of your story. Mm-hmm. Will you share a little bit about that experience and what that looked like for you? Okay, so I went through, uh, I went, I started with being very, uh, my, my voice was shaking when I first started reading, right? And it was like, okay, so where's my book? What page, uh, where do I read from? And then people I started relaxing. And what is beautiful, uh, whenever I share a story, whether it's from the book or just from personal experience, but have inspired some of the stories of the book, is that people are very receptive. Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, the last one that I did was, uh. What? March? No. Yeah, February 25th. Uh, can we kick it? It it's a place in Harlem and I was supposed to talk for eight minutes, but they let me talk for 12 minutes about a story. And you know, what was the most gratifying part of it is that even though I went over time, the, the audience and I were so in sync. But, uh, the host decided to let me run and just let me finish her story. Mm-hmm. And Elizabeth, I had brought, uh, 10 copies of my memoir just in case anybody was interested, and I saw eight that night after the story. Well, and it's just a reminder to people who. Are nervous or hesitant about sharing their voice, sharing their stories, that like mm-hmm. If people can just get a snippet of Yep. What that looks like, what, what the, your storytelling style is, what, how you phrase things. They're gonna, if they resonate with even a fraction of your story, they're gonna be much more likely to then Absolutely. Purchase your book. I was amazed because I was like, oh, oh, you want the book now? Okay. Let me be humble. Okay. Thank you. But it was nice. It was the most validation. It was validating and having people right there saying, oh wow, you have a book, I'll buy it. That to me was the greatest compliment. That, and I feel like those purchasers are gonna be such big advocates of your book because they already knew they resonated with the part that you shared in the reading, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so instead of just someone who hears about it or buy it,'cause a friend tells them about it and they may or may not enjoy it, like those are. Eight readers that you have a much higher likelihood of really enjoying the book, leaving you a review. Yes. Wanting to purchase whatever else you may write in the future. Like yes. That, because it, they resonated with your story from the beginning Absolutely. Before ever purchasing your book. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yes, that, that was nice. Beautiful. And it also helps in terms of, uh, reinforce, um. Reassuring me and my, and my, uh, and my fears about my voice. Yes. Because yeah, that had to be so validating. Yes. It's very validating. You know, you bring a stack of 10 books hoping to share, you know, sell maybe one or two, and then you walk out with just two left, two left, and you're like, oh, gosh. Yes. But also your voice, the things that you, coming from another culture, uh mm-hmm. Having been told for so many years that I needed to tone it down, but I needed having people interested because it's a, from another culture and having people embrace that part, right, but a familiarity part for them and say, yeah, you know what, what you, but what you're saying is universal. Right. It's not just a culture, it's, it is universal. The emotions are universal. That, to me is kind of validating and kind of reassurance, and you know what? Yeah. Never stop talking about culture because that's what shaped you. Mm-hmm. I am not a, so I, I tell stories the way I heard stories being told to me. It was always conversation. They didn't write, they just talked to us. And so when I write, I feel that I'm talking to the reader. Yeah. It's that sentiment that gives me hope for our world. The fact that I know from experience that, that those emotions are universal, those feelings are universal. Absolutely. Even if it's, you know, has this sort of packaging on it or this sort of cover or, you know, like it's, it's, there's so much universality to that and. I mean, when Stephanie and I started this business over two years ago and started this podcast as a part of it, it it was that, that we were really leaning into like, this is our way of quote unquote saving the world. Right? Absolutely. It's bringing people together and showing people like. How easy it is to be able to relate to people once you know their story, because you're always gonna find overlap. I mean, that's your story about, you know, coming from West Africa, from Mali and, and then going through this writing process. Like, I relate so much to your writing, the, the way in which you had to go through your writing process, that I feel connected to you, even though we have vastly different cultural backgrounds. Absolutely. Absolutely. We're, you know, different age ranges, like it's. But there, there's just something so beautiful about the ways that we get to connect when people are willing to share their truths, use their voice and show up, and I just think that's beautiful. Talking about age, I think that writing is one of those, uh, medium where you are never too old to start No. Or too young. There's no such thing too young or too old. You have 15-year-old who can write books and you're like, oh, where did you come from? And you have, so it's, it's for spectrum, I mean. It's the one thing that leaves me still wondering when I, you know, when I, when I look at, uh, the books that have been written or that are being written right now, it's the one thing that you will never get bored. You will always find something interesting to read, but in order to find something interesting to read somebody. To write it and so, and tell you about it. It's one of those things and tell you about it. And so it's one of those things where, um, and it's interesting because, um, with, uh, with the, uh, with the progress of AI and all the fear that AI has created and people who are using it, oh, you can write a book in, you know, in 30 minutes or in two days after now, and more and more, which is. Refreshing. I'm seeing the publishing will saying we do not accept AI books because that authentic voice cannot be duplicated. Mm-hmm. Our authentic voices as storytellers cannot be duplicated. Right. And that's, that to me is refreshing. It really gives me hope. Yeah. And if, if someone listening is a, a memoir writer, but is not sure how to write their own story, there are ghost writers. You can hire a ghost writer to help you write your story and they can keep it in your same, you know, tone of voice. And that is a very valid way to publish your story. Yes. If you feel like you don't have the skillset or the time to learn the skillset or, um. Any of that. There, there are other options for sharing your story that don't involve having to put it into AI and be regurgitated out. Something that's like pseudo emotional, you know? Mm-hmm. And not, not real. There's also, you know, you don't have to share your story and long form memoir. I mean, I, I interviewed a woman. And this is was earlier on in the podcast, so it's been a long time. Um, Lenore Ratray, and she turned her story into, uh, like podcast series. Mm-hmm. So if you feel like you are, like you say, you know, with the West African storytelling tradition, if you feel like a. Uh, you know, spoken or rated storytelling is really your forte versus putting it into writing. That's also a va very valid form of sharing your story, and there's ways to monetize that. There's ways, you know, to, to have that serve you and build a platform for yourself and things as well. But absolutely. Let's, let's not use ai. Yes. But I, I, I, I'll tell you, Elizabeth, it was so, it, for me, it was so refreshing to see that the publishing world is saying, not everybody, but at least I'm seeing that there is kind of in terms of integrity, but there are some of them saying that, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We need the stories. We don't need something that, you know, AI has is, is producing the need, the voices of the people. Hmm. Yeah, for sure. As we wrap up this episode today, and I'm so glad you were here with me today. Is there any last thing you wanna share with these writers, um, that we didn't cover? It could be totally like a totally different topic that we didn't go into today or anything else related to what we've talked about that you wanna share before we sign off. I would just say to anybody who wants to write, do it. Uh, even if you are afraid, even when you think that you're not good, just give it a try. See where it leads you because the story that you see, uh, published, started with a draft. Maybe 10 drafts before it got to the point where it was good enough for somebody else to take a look at it and edit it. Right. Or as you have said, Elizabeth, ghost writing. But if you want, so you have people who can, and I've seen it, uh. Uh, people who can capture your voice, capture your emotion, and put it in words, and then you read it, reread it, and kind of familiarize yourself with it until you're comfortable with it. Those are the ghost writers, or you do it yourself and you give yourself grace and you give yourself patience, right? So that the story that is supposed to come out of you, because I think that writing. Yes, it's an intellectual process, but it's also a gut wrenching process. The truth has to come from the gut and then the mind process it into, and put it into words, right? And so give yourself grace and give yourself time to really go within, inside yourself to pull whatever it is that you need so that your mind can process it and then turn, turn them into words. Right, and don't judge yourself from your first draft.'cause your first draft is gonna be crappy. It's exactly what it's meant to be. It's serving that purpose. I can say that my first draft looks nothing like my book. Now I'm, I have a feeling you could probably say the same. Amen. Amen. Yeah. No, the first draft was for ego crushing draft. Draft. Right.'cause I wrote it and I was like, it's perfect. And then somebody came and started editing and said, redundant, redundant, redundant. Repetitive, repetitive. What is this? It doesn't belong. And I'm like, you don't understand. And then, you know, once, once I got over. Once my ego kind of recovered. Then I went back and started seeing the truth of the, of the critics, and then I rewrote it again. But it was like, it, it, it helped bridge my ego down. It, it did for me. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Well, thank you, Anna, for being here today. Everyone, you can find the links to connect with Anna in the show notes and purchase her book Finding Lala's Anna, and we hope you'll join us again next week. Thank you.