The LFG Show
Talking with movers and shakers who grew up with nothing and worked their asses off to achieve success. Let's 🤬 Go!!!!
The LFG Show
Trump-Pardoned & Powered Up: Ronnie Sandlin
🚨 FROM DIGITAL MARKETING TO REDEMPTION—RONNIE SANDLIN’S WILD JOURNEY 🚨
In this episode of The LFG Show, we sit down with Ronnie Sandlin, a legend in the digital marketing space who found himself on an unexpected path—serving time in prison for his role in the January 6th riots. But his story doesn’t end there…
🔥 Pardoned by Trump and ready for a fresh start, Ronnie is stepping back into the game with a new mindset, new vision, and a hunger for success.
💡 We dive deep into:
📈 His rise in digital marketing and the skills that built his empire
⛓️ The lessons learned from incarceration and how it reshaped his perspective
🚀 The power of second chances and his next big moves in business
This isn’t just a comeback story—it’s about owning your past, rebuilding your future, and turning setbacks into fuel.
🔊 Hit play now and get inspired by Ronnie’s incredible transformation!
👊 Big shoutout to Ringba for powering The LFG Show! If you’re in the lead game and not using Ringba, what are you even doing? Tap in! 💪📈
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction and Context
12:06 Overcoming Adversity: The Path to Freedom
20:41 Mindset Mastery: Techniques for Staying Resilient
52:11 The Power of Books: Knowledge Acquisition in Isolation
1:49:32 Building Lasting Relationships in the Business World
4:00:26 Final Thoughts: Lessons Learned from Adversity
guys lfg show. I told you we don't fuck around. We got people straight out part in a week ago. They're right. Here at affiliate summit west I got ronnie salen the guy's a legend in the space right. I can't believe I'm walking, I see you man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was great to catch up with you, man, and so you know david's an og, so it was really good to reconnect with you bro no, we met.
Speaker 1:The first time we met was I think we met a geek out, the first geek out ever in los angeles. That's right, yeah, yeah I was the sales guy man I got. We got like eight or ten people, if you remember that we were. I was telling people we were. I thought we were gonna be the match of that oh, dude, it was so funny dude it was.
Speaker 2:It was supposed to be a mansion, but you know, it's one of those things where you you get it like the, you you rent something and the photos look amazing. You get there and it's like timu version of it, you know, but it was, it was what it was.
Speaker 1:People were to fuck me up, man, because people pay like seven grand, eight grand, and I don't know that it was. You know the james didn't know either. We got catfish is what happened.
Speaker 2:It was horrible I didn't the the hostess woman. It was, you know, supposed to be a servant and she was like hey, babe, what's up? Like tatted up and he's like just go home. Girl, he's paid her, just go home, we don't even want you here. Oh, it was. It was pretty bad. That was like a legendary wolverine. It's hysterical, but it was great information it was. It was like you're not paying for the manager, you're paying to get the information. You know what? There's people that would pay triple quadruple to have been at that event that day.
Speaker 1:Yo, exactly that's what it was. I mean, it blew my mind away and I think that's why people were cool, because listen, we were honest, like listen. We thought this was a fucking mansion. It wasn't. These guys fucked us and people didn't care. They got the good quality right now. Now look at it's blown up, man.
Speaker 1:So shout out to them for making yeah absolutely that's when I first met you and we we hung out a few times. We did man and bro. It's been. You have a really interesting story, man, and I'm excited to have you here to talk about a story. Yeah, man, you were just literally in jail just over a week ago, man, so let's talk about that feeling how it felt to get the fuck out with fresh air.
Speaker 2:I've been out for four months now.
Speaker 2:I got a lot of before the pardon. Ok, so you know what what David's referring to is. I was part of the January 6th whatever you want to call it right and I was one of the first ones to get arrested. So two weeks later I was in DC and basically a black site in DC, okay, put in solitary confinement. Being told I'm going to get 28 years in prison. Being told that if I cooperate with the US government, maybe I can get 12 years in prison and maybe I could have a life, you know.
Speaker 2:And so, uh, yeah, you never know a strength of a person until they have to walk through the fire. And you know it was definitely an experience for me. I did a year and a half in solitary confinement and then a total of 45 months in prison. And so you know, being able to sit here and affiliate someone with you here, david, it's a blessing and it really makes me realize. You, you know how blessed my life is and how much to appreciate, you know, what other people may take for granted. I mean, it's it's. It's something I wish didn't happen to me, but I'm glad it did yeah, that's what I asked you.
Speaker 1:I mean, in life people always ask do you regret what you did or like? I always feel like everything is part of the fucking story. I get to where I'm sure it's not like you just feel the same way, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I can't change the past, but I can learn from everything that. I've learned from that experience that I think that most people will never get that opportunity if you want to call it that to go through that rock, to that fire, and come out a different, changed man. I see it as a blessing, I'm not mad at it.
Speaker 1:So you know what I want to talk about, because I think when you're a business owner, I mean life's a fucking mental sport, especially when you're a business owner. I mean life's a fucking mental sport, especially when you're a business and being solitary confinement, how do you deal with that? I mean I can't. I can't even imagine.
Speaker 2:Right, and I get that question a lot. So a lot of people don't deal with it, and so there's a lot of people you can hear people going crazy in other cells. You know and I'm not going to get graphic, but it gets. You know, the mind is not mentally prepared to go through that type of solitude, so they would feed us through a tray in the door. I was allowed out 30 minutes per week to either take a shower or to make a phone call, and the only interaction I'd get was when the correction officers were cuffing me, taking me to the shower. And so I had a Bible. I read the Bible. I mean, people say they read the Bible. I really read the Bible, you know, probably 30, 40 times, a crazy amount and stared at the wall.
Speaker 2:But you know, the big thing is like I had to learn how to like not freak out, Because at first I was I'm not going to lie I definitely freaked out. You know, my life's over with, you know, and a lot of it was just take a deep breath, one breath at a time, a lot of breathing. I know you hear people say just breathe. But holy, holy crap, man, that really did help me. Just like, take a breath, just breathe. Let's just get this through this one breath at a time. And, um, you know, I didn't have a key, so I didn't have any other choices either survive or lose my mind. And that wasn't going to lose my mind, so you know, yeah I was going to ask you about you what techniques you use.
Speaker 2:I would imagine meditation, I don't know breathing meditation, right so definitely meditation, a lot of like an inward journey into my own mind. So, like carl jung says that the mind is the most uh, I'm not, it's not exact quote, but he says it's the last unexplored frontier and it's the great adventures inside of our own minds. And most people never go deep into their minds and really kind of unravel the mystery that goes on. You know behind what consciousness is and who we truly are. And it is a scary journey, it's a painful journey, but it's a journey.
Speaker 2:I think that was for me absolutely necessary and I do believe for most people they need to go through the journey. And it is a painful journey and so it was just going deep into my mind and just thinking and just being in my mind. And that's kind of hard to explain because there's so much stimulation in today's society that it's very difficult to just disconnect and go deep in a person's mind. But I think, if anyone listening to this, go do like, if you can afford it, if you're able to go do a month of solitude, of just being away from everybody. I don't know what that looks like, maybe it's camping, maybe it's in the desert, maybe it's on a boat, but just go be away from everyone and everything for at least one month. It's no stimulation, no phone zone, anything.
Speaker 1:And see what happens and that's really interesting advice. That's great advice, but it's hard. I don't know how practical that is for people who rely on making money online. Well, if you're making good money online, you can do that right.
Speaker 2:You can have someone run your business for you and you should be thinking, if I don't have the systems in place to automate my business, where I can't be away from people for one month, maybe that's what I should be working on. Yeah, but I'll tell you what?
Speaker 1:obviously I'm in business for myself. I've always said, since I was young and I ran track, I've always been trying to optimize my health, my body, everything and my business Right, and I study people who have strong mental mindsets Right, and I'm not sure who it was. It was some billionaire, I don't know if it was Elon Musk or somebody. They said the same thing they go away for they took little chunks of a week with no electronics, like four times a year, but they do a month. I don't know if you learned that on your own, but I read someone else said that to like very successful people.
Speaker 2:Success leaves clues. Yeah, right, so that's what they do, and I mean it makes sense for all of us to do that. Yeah, yeah, I, you know, like I said, do try it, even if it's for a week, a weekend.
Speaker 1:Just just go into your mind, just sit and do nothing and see what happens. Yeah, so, man, the the how. How long were you without electronics? So, is it? Was it four years? I mean, everyone's on instagram, remember? You're so sure you were doing a lot. Tons of ad spend, right? I mean the fuck man, I can't imagine our first two years was essentially nothing like no electronics.
Speaker 2:I mean, every once in a while I get a hand like a tablet or like a prison tablet. I mean it was just mostly, you know, uh, nothing. And then, after the year and a half I started, I was able to get books in and that was a huge blessing to get books. I read over 600 books at least while I was in prison and these are, you know, good books.
Speaker 2:Like you know finance, you know venture capital, private equity, which is really really good information, and so you know, it really made me realize like how little that I actually knew, and I thought that I knew. I thought that I knew these things and I reread a lot of books that I had read and this time it was a totally different experience reading them. I thought that I understood this book, but I truly didn't understand it, and so you know it's. Another eye opening thing was just the lack of information that people have, and you know how little people actually go to acquire new information, and I'm not talking about podcasts, I'm talking about really really reading and taking the time to go into very, very high level books and make it an actual practice of your life. That's so important.
Speaker 1:That's amazing what you said, because I just realized all you had was time, right, right, and that's the one thing you can't get back. We try to make this money, to have freedom, but then we want to become the slaves. I mean, I know so many business owners. They're slaves to the business, make all this money but they don't know why. Like, we ran that much time and it's crazy, like, not not that I envy that you were young that sucks, man but that I feel like we rush. I listen to the audio book, I read a book and I almost want to rush to get through it, to resume it, but I've always thought I'd like to go back to that book, but I never fucking do it. Man, you kind of you motivate me to add that to me, because there's so many good books out there and, uh, it's just crazy. It's very.
Speaker 1:What you're saying is very eye opening, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely definitely so what would you say you had you read 600 books, or what's the top? What was the most influential book? Which ones that impact you the most, like the one, two or three?
Speaker 2:well, the ones that, like the ones that impact me the most were like the ones on, like psychology and the inner mind, Like well, the business book that I thought was the most fabulous book that not many people are talking about is Opportunity by Eben Pagan. I never even heard about that. Oh my gosh, Eben Pagan is amazing, yeah, and this book just didn't. I guess it didn't do super well, but it was such an eye-opening book. I probably read that book 10 times, Just rereading it, just rereading it. While you're reading. It is such a fantastic book which you talk to us about how to identify opportunity. And we live in a world where there's a million opportunities. In here there's a thousand opportunities you can go into and all of them good opportunities. Which one do we put our attention to and focus on and how do you make that judgment call? And it's very, very good book. And he talks about the exponential. You know, the impact of technology and how it affects our opportunity and what opportunity means to us in this new age. Very interesting Now for, like the top books that really affected me, like psychologically and mentally and emotionally.
Speaker 2:You know I've been a big fan of Carl Jung my whole life and you know it goes back to. I thought I had read these books and I had never really truly digested it to the level I assumed I had before. So man and His Symbols is a fantastic book by Carl Jung, man in Search of a Soul I believe I may be butchering the title by Carl Jung Fantastic and it talks about the different stages of a person's life and their shadow and their anima and the ego inside of them and just very, very deep level psychology and it can be applied towards business and marketing and self-development in so many ways. So I encourage anyone that is in marketing to read these books, not only for self-development, but once you understand how people's minds work, you know writing good marketing copy is is going to be much easier for you once you understand like kind of the fundamentals there and the archetypes and how we kind of process things wow, we're getting really deep here.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love the, because I, I think we're, we're so we're addicted as a society to social media and being on our phones or in front of screens. Kids are addicted to it. So you know, for me, you're putting things perspective. I'm trying this year to be more spiritual.
Speaker 1:I used to meditate every day. I've been on and off, correct. I used to do flotation therapy for an hour. I'd be alone and I'd get out. I'd feel younger. I'd look at my face and I felt like I, I went back in time, man, it was like, it was nice, right. So you remind me of that and I think, especially in what we do, there's so much fucking shiny object syndrome. Right, yeah, you come to these shows, you see this, you see this, this new fucking ai, this new offer, and you want to do it all, but you can't do it all. Right, and and that comes as a sacrifice you're not going to spend as much time with your family or this person, that person. So I think what you're saying is super, super deep and so relevant. Right, because I mean, at the, we're going to talk about affiliate marketing. You are a fully more digital marketer, right, right, but everything you're talking about there it relates. At the end of the day, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know work-life balance and really putting things in perspective of what matters to you. That's another thing about prison, like who matters right In this industry, there's so many people that will smile at your face and give you a high five and hug you and then sabotage your success. And I saw that. I mean a lot of people watching this may have, you know, been, you know seen, saw that happen to me. So when I went to prison, very so people were very, very excited about you know cause I was doing well before that.
Speaker 2:And you know, seeing somebody you know fall, it's very exciting for Pete. They get to feel like, wow, it's good, that guy's getting what he deserves. And so you got to be very careful about the people you surround yourself, that they, you know you think that they're rooting for you. They, you think that they have your best interest in mind, but they really do not and they're going to take from you and they're going to do it in ways that maybe they're not even aware of that. They're doing it and it's it's like a saying that as a whole, like everybody's doing that, but it's something you got to be aware of.
Speaker 2:And all these people on social media they're not even friends. And so prison taught me who my real friends are, you know, and the ones who stuck by my side, you know, shout out to John Cristani, mike Laughlin, keith Martinez. These guys, really, really, you know, stood with me the whole, the whole journey. And there's the people, really really you know I saw who really had my back and was really rooting for me and who was just like not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like these past few years you've gotten almost like a PhD in human psychology, right when you self-taught.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I don't know PhD, but yeah, definitely I've learned, I'm at a higher level. I would like to think that I was going into this experience for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I would like to think that I was going into this experience for sure. Yeah. So, with that being said, why do you think? What was it? I don't want to judge people right, but why the fuck are you? It sucks, right. Listen, you did what you did, you know, you served the time, you paid the price, whatever and you learn from it. You come out you seem like a much upgraded, better person.
Speaker 2:But why do you think people do that? Why do you think they cheer at people's demise and what's the fucking deep rooted issue with them? You know it's it. I think it's. A lot of people in our society are in an arrested development. So they're, they look like they're adults, but they're actually not fully developed maturity.
Speaker 2:And there's a book called king magician, warrior lover, which I recommend everyone read, that talks about like how in modern society we don't have rituals to manhood and so like in like previous societies, like when a boy was turning into a man, the chief would see him, like playing in the river with a girl, and it went from frolicking, fun, innocent to it's not so innocent anymore. And so he would tell you to stop to the boy and say today, jimmy, you're going to die, come with me. And jimmy goes and runs away and he goes to the women in the village please, grandma, please, mom, please, auntie, please help me. The chief says he's going to kill me. I want to die. They hide the boy and the.
Speaker 2:The chief and his men go to track down the boy and and pull him out of the. You know the woman's, the sanctuary of the woman, and the women are crying please, please, don't kill my boy, please, no, today Jimmy dies. They pull them out and then they put they, they take them on a journey where he has to put them somewhere, in a situation, or some some like situation, where he has to do something that is may kill him. And they, they, they, you know, leave him alone to go through this journey of you know, to experience this journey. They're watching him. You know they're really don't, you know they're, he doesn't know this, but they're watching him. And once they feel like he's gone through this you know journey of, like, you know, uh, spirit journey, or you know it's different in different cultures then they, they say you have died today, jim, you are now a man, and they wrap them up and they take them to the man's temple where only men are allowed to be.
Speaker 2:We don't have these types of rituals in today's society, right? We have, you know, pseudo rituals, you know rituals of manhood that aren't real rituals, and so you have a lot of boy men who are, like I said, arrested development, that are not fully actualized, not to say I am. There's a lot of work that each of us need, that I do especially, but I think that it kind of a long winded answer to your to to your question, but I think that's what it is. A lot of people need to do the inner work and instead of doing the inner work, they'd rather tear somebody down, because the inner work is very difficult, very painful and very long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I remember, prior to you being arrested, you were all over. I'd be on Facebook Every day. I'd see new material, new content by you, and you were again. You'd have a bunch of cash. You were like I don't know what you were doing. You would get my attention, you get other people's attention and maybe they don't get what we're trying to do. We're trying to get their attention. You had a school.
Speaker 1:I forgot the name of it School of Acknowledge yeah, yeah, the school that hit a guy right, and so I think that maybe some people see that, like you know who's this guy, why is he so fucking flashy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know I think that part of that was my own immaturity because, like you know, I know it was getting attention, but it was like, was it getting the right attention? And at what harm was I doing to other people who were seeing that, that were sitting in you know, a situation? That wasn't my situation and they're like, wow, you know, this guy is arrogant. You know, screw this guy. And it's painful for them to watch something like that because they don't have that. And it's painful for them to watch something like that because they don't have that.
Speaker 2:And I'm more cognizant of that. You know, empathy was something that I had to like, really say, look, I need to be aware of other people's emotions and feelings. They may not, you know, take it like how I'm thinking that they're taking it and I think a lot of it was that as well, as you know this jealousy comes from. You know, pain, you know, and so you know as as much as I like, look, that stuff works Flowing up the cash, doing the gold AK-47s and all that Funny, and that was a phase in my life Moving forward. I understand that that's just not at what cost to me and to the people watching it was that content and what was the karmic repercussions of that, and they weren't good, so I don't recommend doing that to people watching this podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, that's a very insightful answer. I didn't know what to expect when I asked you that, but I do remember that man that coincided. I met you, I think, in 2017. Right, my career really started to kick off in 2019 in this business, man, I remember seeing that stuff and I saw it as inspirational. I'm like, man, if I had met you as a person, I knew who you were. I'm like, if you from a good place, or whatever People can take it, how the hell they want to take it, but as long as you come from that place and you know it, I think that's. But it's good to have that empathy and be aware of that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's go into the affiliate marketing man. You are my nature, a marketer man. What do you? I'm excited about this next chapter for you, right, because I feel like man. You're going to come out with all this different kind of insight as marketers we have to know. It's all about human psychology. It's what it comes down to creative win-win. So what are you going to be working on, or what are you working on now?
Speaker 2:So what I'm working on is, you know, I do internal media buying. I can't get the specifics because it's very sensitive. There's a lot of people that would like to see me still fail. But what I'm really focused on and I think you know what I've seen in this industry I've seen, you know, getting out and like seeing it's such a difference since I've been in, was in prison is a maturity in the industry and I think that it's seen a lot more people this as a real business.
Speaker 2:When I first got into it, it was just like how can I make a million dollars in this campaign, this campaign? Going from campaign to campaign and the affiliate offer to offer? It was just wild, wild west. Now I've seen a much more maturity in the business. This is a real business, this is a real industry and how do we take that to the next level?
Speaker 2:And I'm really like reading so many of the books, especially on private equity. I realized that every business that I start, I need to have an exit plan, at least two exit plans, and so that's what I'm focused on is how do I build a business that is an actual asset to somebody that would buy my business at a multiplier, you know, like a private equity firm, what are they looking for in a business? No-transcript, how do I make this business valuable? How do I structure this in such a way that somebody could buy this business and it would survive without me being there anymore and I can exit and move on to other things? And as marketers, we're so valuable because we can go into any business and drive revenue to that business. And so immediately, immediately, and so we should be thinking I would like to see it, I already see it with Alec Mosey's stuff with acquisitionscom.
Speaker 2:I think what he's doing is phenomenal is a shift towards how do we work with private equity firms, how do we build value in these companies, how do we structure them in a way that we can sell them and how do we continue doing that over and over again and really building generational wealth versus just like showy Bentley money you know what I mean Mansion and Rolex money, which is fun, right, it's a lot of fun. Been there, done that. A lot of these guys in here we've done very well and I think that's where I love, where the industry is going. Now I'm seeing a lot more of that and I think anyone that's either interned in this industry or been in this industry for a while. I'd encourage them to really focus on the private equity play and I think that in five years from now, I expect to see a lot of these companies people in here and a lot more private equity guys in here.
Speaker 1:There is a new endeavor called Roofs in the box. It's just man from day one, it's taken off.
Speaker 3:When I first started getting in the roofing industry, what was happening was my fixed costs were always there, and so for me I was looking at how can we, kind of one, save on these costs? And then, two, how do I not lay people off during down times, but also maybe even the ability to pocket more money during the slow season or even the peak season. Since we've done this before, like with our lead gen companies where we have virtual staffing from Argentina or Colombia, I'm like, why don't we do the same thing in the construction business? Now, once we figured it out, we reduced their fixed cost by 70%, and so now, during the downtime they have real seasoned veteran type of players, but during the uptime they pocket. 70% of their operational costs are now going back in their pocket, and then, when it's time to scale, you have the backend prepared, already ready to go to help them lift off.
Speaker 3:Depending on what state you're in, you're averaging at about 12.5% on what you pay out on taxes, insurance, like all the different insurances that you have to pay out, right? So, yeah, you don't have to pay out unemployment, you don't have to pay out bike insurance, medicare, social Security the things that business owners have to eat. Roofs to Box is not just limited to roofing a home improvement company. You can use it for any services, right? You can use it for IT. We use them internally for data sales, for hygiene, for analytics. It doesn't even matter what the vertical is.
Speaker 1:It's like business in a box at the end of the day, pretty much. Yeah, I agree, you're 100% about that. I guess I think when I first started, it was everyone wanted me quick money, or even me. I started this as a side hustle and then, when I started really making money, like, wow, this is a real fucking right well, how did you start you every all of us people how would you make money online quick today?
Speaker 2:you know all this started with. You know all this started with like the quick, easy, quick hustle mentality. You know, yeah no, for me.
Speaker 1:To start out, I made a phone call one of my buddies, you know, you know seth, seth passer, right, you know that, yeah, yeah. So he was like, listen, I got you can broker some leads. I made one phone call. I don't know, I didn't want. I said I got the, I got to the gatekeeper and I sold some student loan consolidation leads. Okay, were you buying for me? Who are you buying from some guy in calif? No, I don't know, maybe it was you. I think you were connected somehow. I don't know what happened. Probably a broker that was buying it for me, yeah, yeah bro.
Speaker 1:I mean it was like a two thousand dollar sale. Right, it wasn't a huge amount. I think my commission was like three, I don't know what. It was 300. I did that in like five minutes, right. I'm like bro, let me 305 minutes. Multiply that times 12, that's like 3600 an hour. Like my bro, this is some real shit. I can scale this.
Speaker 1:So I kept doing more, getting more and more deals, and then shit started to move, but I did that as a side hustle and then this side hustle was making more money than my regular consulting job and then I started making double, triple. I'm doing this shit full time but never in my dreams. And I thought I mean I had an opportunity to exit my company Bad timing, it sort of went. The didn't go through with it, but that was my first taste of it, man, in the private equity space. And I think that since then a lot more people are trying to start to own their own offers. They don't just want to be lead jockeys. And I think that you're right. You're going to see a lot more of that stuff and I'm glad to hear that you're seeing that, because at the end of the day, regardless, people look at someone like they carry some status, they carry some like. It's like the, the veterans man, they know their shit.
Speaker 2:They're a veteran for a reason right yeah, I was telling my buddies, I was like I don't know if it's good or bad that I'm still in this industry. It's good, right, because I'm a survivor, right, we just keep it pushing. But it's bad because, you know, if we were real G we would have exited by now. But you know, make it happen and realize these things. But you know, uh, there gets to a point where, you know, none of us watching this wanted like just buy traffic for the rest of our lives and who knows how long that's even gonna be a thing. You know, just just focus on the exit man.
Speaker 1:Focus on the big, the big, the big payoff, the big leverage man yeah, I agree when I first mentioned I want to talk about trends now. Trends now and how do you uncover trends or how do you get ahead of the curve right? So when we first met, you were talking about campaigns that no one was doing. Yet you were talking about there was a Me Too movement started happening around it and you had some unique campaigns that kind of related, but no one was doing that. You were on top of right, but no one was doing that. You were on top of right and we talked offline about some other stuff. But how do you uncover that and what's your recommendation? Someone was trying to catch Because you got to be ahead of the curve man. I got the soldier back in 2016. It was probably the second inning and I wrote a lot of that way. But how do you get ahead where you can get in the first, second, third inning or something?
Speaker 2:You know I try I really spend a lot of my time acquiring a lot of knowledge and you know like I just read a blog article the other day for something I'm doing about. It was a private equity guy who was talking about restructuring deals in a way that was very novel. You know, when it comes to like kind of an annuity play, I get into super specifics, but it was this very just weird, like just off the hand quote and I called the guy up yesterday and I you know, and I really opened my eye up to like a whole new opportunity for me. And so it's just like pay attention to like stuff. Don't read like gossip stuff. Read like these like industry stuff that are real like kind of underground and and and make sure that you spend time really just kind of digging through these, these, the, these kind of like business journals and and you'll discover jewels there.
Speaker 2:And stay away from the mainstream stuff. Anything that the mainstream media and the mainstream like people are consuming, that's not going to be really full of gems. It's going to be these kind of like trade publications that are telling you things before that they, before you know the general public understands them or they're not even interested really, and don't be afraid to contact people and just say, hey, I don't know what working looks like, but let's keep a conversation going and you really will get those kind of stats. I mean, that's how I stay ahead, and just intuitively, I think, just doing it long enough, just intuitively understanding how people you know operate in like trends and cycles, so that just comes with time and experience yeah, I love where you said, yeah, go off the beaten path is what it comes out to.
Speaker 1:If everyone's going this way, go a different way. Right? If everyone's in one vertical, you might not want to be in that vertical and that's it goes back to when I met you and I didn't know anyone doing me two of the shit that you were doing maybe one or two people, but everyone else back there was doing I think they were just doing like medicare, maybe they were doing debt, I don't remember student loans, right so you were doing something different, right, and even offline we talked about different stuff. So you gotta be surrounded people doing different stuff. Everyone's. You're surrounding people doing the same shit. How are you gonna get ahead?
Speaker 2:right, yeah, and that's another thing is like who you surround yourself with and like you have to have your band of brothers and you know sisters, but you know, read like having those warriors beside you that will lift you up when you fall, and vice versa, and like real, like real dudes that are ready to go to battle with you and you're ready to go to battle with them. Like you need like a group. It's not like a one-man band, you know, it's not a one-man journey. Like like you have to have your brothers at arms, ready to like go to battle with you and to really really fight the bigger fights and to really like work together. And and uh, and and that's super important is who you run with. Like what are the? What is your wolf pack? Oh, the wolf pack, what does your wolf pack look like? And are they really really, you know, have your back, yeah, and are they really really ready to attack something when it's time to attack?
Speaker 1:and like that is something I've been blessed to to surround myself with these people yeah, that that's huge, especially in our industry, where money can come quick and people have ulterior motives. Absolutely, they're trying to gain something, maybe, and not in a, and then some some in a sort of way. That's not beneficial for you, right, right. So I think that you got to be aware of that and not get sucked into that shit, right, because they're coming to pounce when you fuck up Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think Gucci Mane said it as a rapper. There's a call First Day at the Feds. He has a rap quote there that says you know, essentially like if I'm surrounded by wolves, if they don't eat, they're going to eat me, you know. So it's an interesting concept. Like you know the very thing that like you've got to be strong and surrounded by strong people, but you got to know that. You know they're not going to eat you but at the same time you got to know that they have the ability to. I know it's kind of a weird thing. It makes it kind of abstract that for society we live in a society where we don't see the competition. Like this guy could murder me, right, this guy next to me, right, but cavemen did, and they understood that intrinsically. We've just hid that from ourselves. And so you got to understand the people you surround yourself should be like, not killers I don't want to say killers, but they should be. You know what I mean. Have that kind of you know killer instinct.
Speaker 2:You're like a killer instinct you gotta be. You know it's a fine line we can find finding the people that'll pounce on you when you're down down and that will help you when you're up. It's, it's interesting, it's a very. There's a book called simulation simulacrum that talks about the abstractions in our society and how we've gone so far from the actual, real, real world that we that the reality that we stop understanding these concepts are. They is important for us to really really dig deeper into, like caveman psychology.
Speaker 1:Yeah at the end there were animals. Right, it's just fucking survival of the fittest and we forget that sometimes. Right, we're not, I don't know. We live in houses, got ac or whatever, like we have these, all these creature comforts, right, but we, we never had.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, forget that. That's the thing another thing in prison taught me was it's really is caveman, like living like a caveman. I saw people get stabbed over a honey bun, over respect, just literally a disrespect, you know people get killed and stabbed and just all types of stuff, and it really made me realize we're not that far off from the caveman. You know, in prison it's all out in full display and so you know, social dynamics in prison was something that really made me realize how really we're just really just a veil away from that killer instinct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. I meant to ask you that question earlier. I'm glad you came back to it because I read a book on Malcolm Gladwell. I don't know if it was called the Tipping Point, but he talked about all these crazy situations like when someone gets pulled over by the police and then they wind up getting killed. And you look at the audio, there's a point where disrespect occurs. Disrespect the police officer was disrespected, the person pulled over for disrespect. Before you know it, they start going back and forth. Boom, someone gets shot and killed and it's also miscommunication.
Speaker 2:So this is another. There is um. I studied linguistics and um and um. There's an interesting phenomenon in language where what I'm saying is not necessarily interpreted how I'm thinking it's. It's like how our communication. I'm thinking it's like our communication. I'm thinking I'm telling you something and you're not interpreting it the way I'm assuming you are. And language is such an abstract thing, right, it's actually an audio symbol that is like attached to, like meaning, and we assume that we are speaking the same language. We should understand and oftentimes we don't. Culturally, you know language dialects and there's a lot, there's a lot to unpack there, and so like understanding that even in marketing was huge, but also understanding that interpersonal communication that, like you, you know you never assume that the what you're saying, that the other person's interpreting how you mean it to, and always assume maybe, maybe, that there's miscommunication. And try to recognize that spot that as soon as you can. It's actually way harder than you think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what we're talking about. Respect too. It ties into the relationship with clients as well. There are so many times where listen, we mess up, my team messed up, we screwed something up. But pick up the damn phone, apologize to the client, show that level of respect. When you disappear, you're like this guy doesn't respect me, he doesn't respect my time, whatever, and then you're not going to be able to scale that client.
Speaker 1:There have been times where I know my competition had better leads than I had, right, right, but because I went the extra mile, I did the right thing when I didn't have to do the right thing. Or I went and visited them and maybe created some extra value, I went to their call center and tweaked a few things, but at the base level it comes down to respect, right, so it's not. It could be a life or death situation, right? Or it could also be a way to really there could be that little element that helps you go from point A to point B, or you go from $1 million in revenue to $5, $10 million in revenue, right?
Speaker 2:Well, another thing that really helped me out and is a really big, powerful tool is the Myers-Briggs test, and I encourage everyone to take it. You can go to like 16 personalities. It's a pretty good place to take it. It's free and learn your personality type, and every personality type responds to like situations very differently. So I'm an ENTJ, which means I'm extroverted, I'm intuitive, I'm a thinker, I'm ENTP, not ENTJ, and I'm perceptive, and so I perceive the world in possibilities and basically intuitive possibilities.
Speaker 2:And somebody that, for example, is an ISTJ is the exact opposite. Everything is defined black and white. There's no infinite possibilities. There's just this or that yes or no. It's very binary for these people, and so understanding somebody's personality type and understanding your own personality type when communicating really helps to bridge that gap in communication. It's understanding if I'm talking to an ISTJ. I'm not talking like, oh, there's all these possibilities, I'm saying this is that and this is this, and that will really clear up a lot of communications quite frequently. And you should know all of the personality types of the people in your team internally, because you'd be surprised how you're really not utilizing people's talents and innate talents optimally when you're, when you take the Myers-Briggs test and you'll kind of it's, it's good to use that to build teams. It's just good for every kind of interpersonal communication. So it's kind of my secret weapon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you could avoid conflict, avoid unintentionally disrespecting somebody, and sometimes it's a it's a matter of life or death. That was that's what the book was talking about. It was breaking down all these situations and it really, at the base level, came down to respect and I could imagine, in prison. That's a huge thing. Did you ever have any close calls with anybody? Maybe because of lack of miscommunication.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean a lot. I got jumped by 12 inmates because of a situation that was a miscommunication based off of respect. Wow, yeah, I had my eye socket fractured, oof yeah, and it was pretty rough, but it all came down to respect and, you know, the respect that that person had felt disrespected by me and it was not my intention and it just escalated very, very quickly, very quickly and you know, and sometimes it's kind of unavoidable, I feel like in that situation I don't want to say it was unavoidable, but you know it's easy sometimes to get to those situations and, yeah, so interpreting them, understanding that and trying to avoid that, and it's going to be very helpful for sure.
Speaker 1:Wow, man, I do. You know. We talked about thinking differently and moving off of being path, and I love that you're sharing it and thank you for you know you don't have to share that right, but I mean no one wants to get jumped by 12 people. Get your fucking. It's not fun, right. How do you handle such like? What happens after that situation? I mean, how do you handle the people who jump you because it doesn't happen again? I mean what's?
Speaker 2:the well, you know, I didn't never saw them again. They ended up. You know, actually it was three weeks before I left, oh wow. So it was just like three weeks before I was actually out of prison. So I ended up doing the rest of the time on the shoe. But it's really sometimes these things in prison, especially almost unavoidable. Along that time in prison you're gonna get jumped. It's just. It's just what's gonna happen. You're going to be in a situation like that. They're kind of unavoidable. But you know, just try to avoid it. I don't know. I mean, sometimes you just can't help it. And you know what? Take the licks, the licks to keep on taking. Get back up, don't cry about it. Swing as many times as you can and, you know, fight your whole way down. It's like they say never just go in a fetal position. If that situation arises, try to take down one or two with you, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's great advice. At the end of the day, listen, I mean damn, what else are you going to do, right, that's?
Speaker 2:it yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Man. So this has been amazing. It's been great piece of advice. I mean someone that's I don't know, maybe a couple pieces, someone that's brand new in this game. What do you recommend? Somebody that's like I don't know OG has been doing as long as you have. What's your recommendation, based on what you've seen in the last?
Speaker 2:two years. So like, focus on providing like, a solution to a big pain point. Somebody has easy to think about selling widgets and you know. Focus on something that has a big problem, that solves a big problem. My first real big like campaign was student loan consolidation. So that had a really big pain point because so many people have student loans that they couldn't afford. Focus on some solution to a big pain point and find a way to provide a big solution and become the best in the world at this Like.
Speaker 2:I talk to a lot of people. You know people come up to me, advise me, ask me what they should do. I said well, what are you one of the best in the world at? They just drive a blank. Find something and develop something the one thing that you're just the best in the world at. I consider myself one of the best copywriters in the world and I'm very confident about that because I've done the work, I've put in the work and I've done the numbers. I've posted the numbers.
Speaker 2:So specialize in one thing find the leverage points. Internet marketing is a leverage point by itself. Writing copy is a leverage point. Learning some media buying and then focus on an exit. Build a business from day one that you can structure in a way that you can exit. Read books on private equity, read books on investment banking, read books on how the guys that are really the big dogs, like billionaires, are, how they play the game. You know, because there's so much bridge there that could be bridged between the affiliate marketing world and that world and, like I already see it happening and and try to develop those relationships and I think that you know you'll definitely leapfrog over a lot of the guys like myself that had to learn it kind of through trial and error and the hard way, and I think you'll do fine. I mean, this is a fantastic industry. It's full of a lot of rewards and if you really stick to it, you will reap the benefits for sure. Nice, yeah.
Speaker 1:Great advice Now again, prior to going away very, you're very vocal in social media, you, you. I haven't seen your social media since. Are you planning kind of returning social media or what's your some sort of presence?
Speaker 2:a bit. You know I am, you know, not as much, not in the same way. You know it. Also there's, just, like I said, I'm really structuring towards like an exit, right, and so I don't want something like necessarily hiccup me going forward, you know. But yeah, I mean social media. I don't want to be a consumer of social media anymore. I want to be a customer of social media, right, and the consumer is somebody that endlessly scrolls and you know, actually the really good way of looking at it is like, well, how much do you pay Facebook and Twitter and YouTube? Most people pay almost nothing. Zero, right. If you're not paying for the product, you are the product, don't be the product. Be the customers, don't be. You know, and that's. There's a lot to unpack there. But you know, social media can be really negative and positive. Use it for money, not for entertainment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, man, you drop so much knowledge here I don't even know how to. There's so much to unpack here and I really appreciate it. I'm glad I ran into you. I didn't expect to see you. It was great to see you. I haven't seen you maybe in five years. Thank you so much for sharing with the audience.
Speaker 2:How can people find out more about you? You can follow me. All the Jadzic stuff, you'll find me.
Speaker 1:Good yeah, this was amazing. We got really philosophical here like super philosophical yeah, it was great. You got my brain going, man. At the end of the day, that's what we need. That's what we're here to do Absolutely. I love it. Roddy, Thanks for being on the show to sponsor, lfg sponsor, where I get you up there. Go to word right there, mel, yeah, alright, absolutely Alright, let's rock it. Phenomenal podcast.
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