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The LFG Show
Shaun Hall's Roadmap to Affiliate Marketing Mastery: From Risk-Taking Roots to Strategic Success
Ever wondered what it really takes to succeed in affiliate marketing? This episode promises to shatter the myths of instant riches and reveal the relentless effort and strategy that lie behind the facade. Join us as we sit down with Sean Hall, VP of Revenue at Diablo Media, to explore the evolution of affiliate marketing from its risk-taking roots to today's more cautious approaches. We dive into the vital importance of networking and learning from the pioneers of the industry while emphasizing the transformative power of industry events.
Sean and I navigate the shifting landscape of affiliate marketing, examining how new traffic platforms, regulatory changes, and evolving strategies shape the industry. Gain insights into the nuanced differences between Nutra trials and straight sales, and learn why standing out in a crowded marketplace is more crucial than ever. Our conversation highlights the benefits of networking with affiliate managers and the significance of adaptability and foresight in maintaining a competitive edge.
Personal branding and genuine outreach play pivotal roles in this episode. We discuss how to avoid the dreaded "pitch slap" on LinkedIn and share innovative strategies like personalized video messages that can set you apart in the professional world. From maximizing opportunities at industry shows to leveraging data management and retargeting, this episode offers a comprehensive guide for both newcomers and seasoned professionals aiming to excel in the competitive realm of affiliate marketing. Don't miss out on these invaluable insights—tune in and transform your approach today!
I'm in this industry because I'm not good at physical labor. I am in this industry, because I don't want to go to an office every day. This is as dressed up as I've been all week.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that. Thank you, man. Yeah, I put on my nice hoodie for you.
Speaker 1:Today, a lot of people get into the industry because there's so many people on Instagram, tiktok, youtube. They're like I work an hour a day and I make 300 G's a month. It's like that's not realistic. Do we know guys that do that 100%? Is it possible? 100%? Does it take a ton of work? 100%? And you don't see that work. In this industry. There's such a herd mentality 100%, right when it's like.
Speaker 1:When I got into this industry, affiliate marketers I idolized as rock stars Because they were not afraid to push the envelope, to test new things, new angles. They wanted to be the first to market on everything. And I feel that over time the industry shifted in a way where there's a lot of risk averse affiliates out there who, unless somebody else is already doing something, they don't want to try anything new. It's not worth the risk. I learned back then about doing that. I zigged when everybody else was zagging and I have kept that mentality with me my entire career. If everybody's moving one way, I like to move the other way. Shout out to our sponsors, because without them, this shit wouldn't be possible.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Ringba. Shout out to Adam Young, because without them, this shit wouldn't be possible. Shout out to Ringba. Shout out to Adam Young. The paper call revolution. There's big, big money in paper call. Whether you're someone who's a novice looking to get into it, whether you're someone who's already doing it, putting up big numbers, let's fucking do this. Guys, Get the fucking book on Amazon. We're going to drop a link here. Take your shit to the next level. Let's fucking go.
Speaker 3:Guys, it's Boris. I'm on the LFG show. Don't forget, we have contactio coming up, the biggest and best show for call centers. If you're going to be in Denver, you need to use promo code LFG.
Speaker 2:Let's fucking go, baby. Save 200 bucks, put that promo code in, get there, make a lot of money. See, boris and I, yo, yo, we're back, guys. This time we're in delray beach. We're at a spot called opportunities having some drinks over here with my man, sean hall. This guy's a veteran in the space. You've been in space 11, 12 years, 12 years.
Speaker 1:Man, it's a lot, that's a lot of fucking years man all the grays.
Speaker 2:That's all for this industry bro, I've been in this shit eight, nine years. Man, you got me beat. Man, there's a lot of people like that, so here I am.
Speaker 2:So he's a vp of revenue at diablo media. Great company made inc 500. Numerous times he won an award of best, one of best work environments in the country, which I want to talk about later. So, yeah, it's really a pleasure to have you on the show because, listen we, it's good to have a vet that's been I mean, you've been as an affiliate, affiliate manager, vp of rev. You've done so many different things, man, so I think this is going to be a very valuable show for our audience. You know, beginners, people with a lot of experience, we're going to run the whole gamut, man. So I'm pumped to have you on the show, man.
Speaker 1:I'm pumped to be here. This is literally a dream of mine, yeah, Like, honestly, like, come New York, y'all better go home with the trophy at the afi expo. Oh, I appreciate that this. Better win right here at lfg show. Better take home the hardware. Darren, I'm looking at you, mike, I'm looking at you watching you, bro, make it happen.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I'm excited to be here, I'm excited to, like, share some knowledge and some industry knowledge and, you know, just see what kind of value we can bring today yeah, I appreciate that and I appreciate the shot.
Speaker 2:I don't know where you're going with that man. I was saying about New York. I'm thinking like a million different things in New York. I didn't expect us to talk about that, so that means a lot, man.
Speaker 1:Listen, we're nominated for Agency of the.
Speaker 2:Year.
Speaker 1:Diablo is. I hope we take home the hardware. I hope you guys take home the hardware. Let's go and then we celebrate together. I'm getting my tux cleaned Nice.
Speaker 2:Is that a Saturday or Sunday? I?
Speaker 1:think it's a Sunday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got to get prepared for that man. I'm coming from Europe, bro. You know what's funny? I changed my whole. We were supposed to come back from Europe like the 28th or some shit, my whole family. We got to come back earlier, so we're coming back to 26th. I'm going from Europe, we're going to go to New York, go back to Miami and then I'll come back.
Speaker 1:the next man fucking dedication, bro uh, that is dedication and I appreciate so much. Yeah, you not making me schlep to miami. I'm a delray beach guy. I stay in delray beach. I'm, uh, incoming chair of the board of directors of the chamber of commerce here in delray beach wow I don't like to leave delray if I don't have to, so I appreciate you guys coming up today and making this happen here, at my favorite spot here in delray beach yeah, no great spot.
Speaker 2:let let's do a cheers before we get into this. Cheers. What are you drinking, by the way?
Speaker 1:I've got an Imperial Stout 11.5% ABV on this one.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, you're going hardcore. I'm going straight gasoline here I started with something from Doral, or otherwise known as Dorazuela for the high Venezuelan population. My mom's from Venezuela. I, for the high-vibing Venezuela population, my mom's from Venezuela. I started with this. It was a little too sweet, so I switched up to this Pilsner Like 5%. I'm not going to get too nuts, you know it is what it is Well, you know. Well, good stuff, let's get into it man.
Speaker 1:Let's get into it.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about your journey, right? I mean, and you know what I want to do A couple of the newbies, they want me to explain a little more what these things are Like. When I talk about affiliate management, we'll talk about all this stuff. So let's go back to your journey, how you got into it and if we got to go back to layman's terms on some things, we will.
Speaker 1:Oh no, let's go back. So prior to getting into this industry, I was working for Scott's Miracle-Gro big Fortune 500 company Started as a seasonal door-to-door salesman. I've always been good at sales, Always been in sales, worked my way up to the top door-to-door sales guy in Florida.
Speaker 2:Top door-to-door sales guy in the country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, moved inside, became the number one revenue generator in the entire organization.
Speaker 2:You mean inside and inside sales. Inside sales that's pretty amazing because it's hard to find salespeople that can do both. I'm way better over the phone. I don't know anyone anymore but but I've been. Door-to-door is hard for me, but over the phone I was like different personalities, so the fact that you can do it's like being a great switch hitter. They're gonna hit you know home runs from both sides. I mean that's that's pretty amazing yeah, no, I 100 agree.
Speaker 1:Um, I've always just had a knack for sales and I've always been a people person. So when I got into that it was great. And what ended up killing that relationship was the fact that one year we blew our numbers out of the water. My boss at the time got a very large, sizable bonus. My bonus right Cause it was my work uh, before taxes, was 800 bucks. And so we, uh I went to him and said, hey, can you throw me any extra money? And he was like I had the foresight to hire you and I was like I have the foresight to quit. Wow. So I left.
Speaker 1:I had a friend of mine at the time who was working for an affiliate network as a graphic designer and he said listen, I think we're looking for salespeople, so why don't you interview? So I interviewed, had a really good interview and went in for my interview and this is a really funny story. He told me to dress up too much. So I have a black blazer on, I got a black button down, I got some jeans, some nice black shoes. I walked to this very professional office building right. I walk in and I instantly assume I'm in the wrong place, because the first thing I see when I walk in is a ping pong table, a pop, a shot machine, like the little basketball arcade game and like a full coffee bar, and I was like not what I was expecting. So I interview and I knew at that point I want to work here. I don't know what they do, I don't know why they do it, but I want to work here. So I interviewed, I got the job as distribution manager, which is what they called affiliate managers. Then I thought I was going to be packing and shipping boxes. I didn't care because I wanted to work there.
Speaker 1:And so I spent a year where they beat the car salesman out of me because I was a one-call closer. Oh, you got five kids. I got five kids, you know. Oh, you drive a Corvette. I drive a Corvette, right, like whatever I had to do to close the deal. But in this industry, as you know, it's all relationships. It's all based on trust and understanding that the person that you're working with knows more about what they're talking about than you do. So I started out. They spent a year just knocking the car salesman out of me. Every day I had to like pull reports, pull links, adjust payouts, place pixels, you know, really look for trends and really learn the industry inside and out. So when I took over and I had my book of business, I did really well. By the time I left that company I'd taken that book of what I called my queue of misfit affiliates, right.
Speaker 1:So new affiliates that were low volume, low volume SEO pubs I mean we're talking like the bottom of the barrel and the good thing about a lot of them being new and me being new and if you're new I would wholly recommend this Be open and honest. Like, why are you doing that? Why are you making that change? Why did you change this word? Like ask a lot of questions? Right, because if they're new and you're new, you're learning together, right, and then you grow together and then you get that one campaign that takes off and then you guys are high-fiving and it's like it builds that relationship from the bottom up. I mean, shout out to Ian Smith, who's out there somewhere. He was one of those first guys and we built that up. Love that guy to death. I still remember it, right, you remember those small early wins?
Speaker 2:I do too. I remember 20 years ago I was talking about that earlier and I was on another IG Live talking about a sale. I got a $100,000 sale. I got one when I was 23. You always remember those things, those key moments. Yeah, they're like pivotal moments man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, him, and like Matthew Walter who was in that group, like there was a bunch of new guys that are still killing it in the space Right. We all kind of started that area together and that was kind of my first foray into like affiliate management.
Speaker 2:Where was this?
Speaker 1:This was a company called Ads Direct Media. It was here in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida.
Speaker 2:So this was your, so you're working in Florida. I was working in Florida, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:And that was an office environment and, like I said, there was a group of people at that company who have gone on to do really big things, started their own company doing millions and millions of dollars in revenue. Like it was just a core group of us that just were passionate about the industry and committed to growth. Right, it was one of those things where everybody was friends but we're all competitive with each other. And that's the other thing I love about this industry is like we're all friends but we're all competing with each other at the same time. Right when we go to affiliate summit, I was like, dave, I made more money than you last year, right, like you know, it's this friendly motivation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's good to know other people's numbers. What are you tracking? Are you not like what's going on?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I did that. And then, uh, I bounced around from a few other affiliate networks for a while until I got into media buying myself.
Speaker 2:What year was this that you got into media buying? I?
Speaker 1:got into media buying probably 2014, 2015, somewhere in there, started with Facebook, I actually started with one of my affiliates. I started doing grunt work for him on the media buying and all I was doing was logging spend, logging revenue and just putting it all in a spreadsheet. And then I got to the point where I actually built up my own Facebook system. I had a girl in Arkansas, a single mom, who I was helping out, who would help me find people to rent their Facebook accounts. She would have them download TeamViewer, do the whole thing to where we were generating probably 15 to 20 new accounts going into clean spend every week. We had 15 or 20 that were in black hat spend every week because we were running a lot of Nutra and built that up to, I mean, really a great success, until Facebook kind of started changing things around and then we decided to kind of part ways on that and that's when I got into native media buying.
Speaker 2:Got it man Incredible story and the fact that you've been doing this so long. I'm sure you've seen a lot of changes go on and I mean it must be incredible in terms of what it would cost to run, get, get a qualified lead then versus now. I mean so many changes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean not only changes with the traffic platforms itself, but changes with you know regulations and different policies that have came out and different governmental regulations that have come out, and the way that you know credit card processing companies have, and all of the different changes and the ways that we have to duck and dodge to make things happen in this industry has been monumental. I mean, I remember like when I was managing affiliates back then, when I first started, you could run NutriTrials white hat on Facebook. To even try to think about running something like that white hat is just mind-boggling right. So much has changed what?
Speaker 2:what were I mean? You would imagine there must have been affiliates, media bars putting out huge numbers some of those days you're doing that kind of. What were the offers back then?
Speaker 1:we at the time when I was that ads direct, we were running mostly international nutra straight sales um. So at a time when domestic trials were at their peak, we kind of shifted over and we're doing international straight sales.
Speaker 2:Can you explain what are the trials or straight sales for the novice?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so for people that are unfamiliar with that, like a trial offer is basically the consumer puts down $4.95, $3.95, whatever it is to get a trial subscription to a weight loss product or a skin cream or something like that. So all they're paying up front is $4.95, $3.95, whatever it is to get a trial subscription to a weight loss product or a skin cream or something like that. So all they're paying up front is $4.95,. But then there's an automatic rebuild. That happens two weeks, three weeks, four weeks later for like $98 or $128, right, whereas a straight sale offer they're just buying one, three, five bottles up front for the full amount, bottles up front for the full amount. And what was good about that and what I learned about that is, in this industry there's such a herd mentality, 100% Right when it's like.
Speaker 1:When I got into this industry, affiliate marketers I idolized as rock stars because they were not afraid to push the envelope, to test new things, new angles. They wanted to be the first to market on everything. And I feel that over time the industry shifted in a way where there's a lot of risk-averse affiliates out there who, unless somebody else is already doing something, they don't want to try anything new. It's not worth the risk, right? So I learned back then about doing that. I zigged when everybody else was zagging and I have kept that mentality with me my entire career. If everybody's moving one way, I like to move the other way.
Speaker 1:And when I was a native media buyer myself, instead of going to my affiliate manager and being like yo, what's the top converting offer on native right now, I would be like yo, what's the newest offer you've got that accepts native traffic, that you need data on Right, because sometimes I can get a GEPC deal on that where they would guarantee me a certain EPC to get data.
Speaker 1:Or I would just be able to run something that nobody else was running. Because the important part on native is your ads are right next to other people's ads. So if there are three guys running diabetes offers and they're running the same type of offer, the same type of angle, the same type of headline, it causes ad blindness. You want to stand out as much as possible. Plus, I don't want my ad being next to other people in the same vertical and that's why a lot of people with native not to like derail all of this. Asking for a whitelist on something is completely an old school, obsolete mentality, because you're not zigging where others are zagging, you're zagging where everybody else is at. You're not going to stand out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love what you're saying, especially now. You know. I know we're talking about new chart and all this stuff, and lead gen is really my, my main, my main, my main focus. And what I've seen in relation to what you're saying is that everyone was putting on big numbers on the paper call side, on ACA insurance, and then there's all this new regulation, a lot of stuff going on that's caused people to start panicking.
Speaker 2:I was at a show in New York. I sense you know you get to feel the vibe in a room. You know when shit is good, when shit's weird, but people are nervous about what's going on. People are owed a lot of money, and it was. It was interesting to feel that, because I haven't felt that in a long time, and I think that's one of the cases where everyone jumped in.
Speaker 2:It was trying to make as much money. They pillaged the vertical and then now like what the fuck do I do? So that's, you're 100 right and that's what I've been doing too. I've always. Solar has always been good for me. Uh, it started to go the other way. We still make money in solar, but we started getting all these other verticals, that people. We got into stuff like debt that other people were into. But don't get me wrong, but we got into other shit and now it's starting to pop. Took a little bit of time, took some money, but, boom, now it's starting to work right. So I think that's what you're saying. It's so critical now towards the ACAs and all that stuff, right. So it's very important to start doing this. And how do you identify those areas, Like is it talking to the affiliate managers or what's your recipe for that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, and you're dead on right, because, again, going back to that herd mentality, it's like, oh shit, dave's making money at this, I got to do that too, right. And then this is where I think spy tools have kind of ruined the industry, because all they're doing is going there saying, oh, this is the top spending one, I'm going to rip that, I'm going to do it too, but they have no business doing that like it's not an angle that they even know works, right. So what? I always tell people, when you're trying to research something, find the big thing that's out there, right. Like you said, ozempic, right. If ozempic is the big thing that's out there, right, you know what else is out there right. Now there's tort that's around Ozempic. Yeah, 100% Right. So if you know Ozempic's hot, find something else that's adjacent to that, right. Or if home services is super big, right. If solar is super big and you have a bunch of home services data, find some other offer like pest control, right.
Speaker 2:Like I've been harping pest control for six months. It's evergreen too.
Speaker 1:It's evergreen right, you got homeowner data. You need homeowner pest control.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you something not to go off subject. This is really related. So chance was here. He was he. Uh, he sent me something early instagram about a guy making a thousand dollars a day leasing out his cats. Have you heard about this shit? No, it sounds fucking, but I thought it was some bullshit. Like they're gonna like punk me at the end, right? So what happened was what he sends him out to restaurants, to hotels what, what do you? What do you think he's doing this for? Like what? What? Restaurants, hotels, what?
Speaker 1:I have no idea.
Speaker 2:Anxiety relief I have no idea pest, rats, rodents, right, yes, so check this shit out. Wow, he charges like, oh, you got to fucking. Where are the rats? They're in the kitchen. He puts a cat in the motherfucker $300. And every time he catches a mouse, another 50 bucks or whatever the fuck. So he's got like 10 cats that live with him. And then, boom, every day he goes to these places pick them up. They do their work Because cats are natural predators. But it's related to what you're saying Homeowners, pests, right, fucking. Hey, you got cats, you got your fucking. You heard a ton of cats. Someone died. Put those motherfuckers to work, get some ROI New campaign look.
Speaker 1:You heard it here first. We're going to have a link by the end of this episode when you can rent cats For $300 a day.
Speaker 2:What an ingenious idea. It's the pussy campaign. It's the pussy campaign.
Speaker 1:Without all the drama. Without the drama, yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Instead of taking all of that, find something that's adjacent. Everybody needs pest control, right? How many pest control? I mean we're in Florida, you live in Miami. Right, you understand many pest control. I mean, we're in Florida, you live in Miami, right Like, you understand how pest control works. You get how that. Everybody needs it down here regardless. Right, like, take it and do that. Instead, you'll stand out, you'll do better. People haven't seen that before.
Speaker 2:Why do you think people don't do that, though? I have my thought process around it, you know. You talk about risk aversion versus before, people were more willing to take those shots. I mean, is it just that, as simple as that, or is it something else?
Speaker 1:Honestly, I think it's a combination of risk aversement. It's also laziness, right? I mean, think about it. I'm in this industry because I'm not good at physical labor. I'm in this industry because I don't want to go to an office every day, right? This is as dressed up as I've been all week right Like I get that.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that. Thank you, man. Yeah, I put on my nice hoodie for you today.
Speaker 1:But I get it right. Like I understand, like you know, a lot of people get into the industry because there's so many people on Instagram, tiktok, youtube, like I work an hour a day and I make 300 G's a month. It's like that's not realistic. Do we know guys that do that 100%? Is it possible? 100%? Does it take a ton of work? 100%, and you don't see that work, right?
Speaker 1:So if somebody's getting into the industry let's just say they have an initial ad budget of 10 grand, right, they want to spend that 10 grand where they feel they have the best chance for success. And so you feel you have the best chance for success. And so you feel you have the best chance of success. If you know that Chance is renting out cats to kitchens for $300 a day, well, this sounds like a good investment for my $300, right? But not realizing that Chance probably did his research, probably did kind of figure out what the demographics were, probably did a ton of testing leading up to it. Probably it probably ab tested the crap out of images and creatives and headlines and did all of that work before he got to the point where he was making 300 g's a month on renting out cats, which, if you're doing that, love it to death great idea so that's where I think it comes from.
Speaker 1:It's a a mix between risk aversion, but also a little bit of laziness. They don't want to put in the work work.
Speaker 2:And it probably ties into that herd mentality, like you say, and especially with social media, and I think that's that could be another thing. You know, social media keeps growing and growing year over year, and not that it wasn't big when you first got into it, but I feel like I wasn't on social media in 2012, 2013. I really got back involved in 2019. And it really recently started to really with the show right. But the point is that I think people see, oh, what do you? They go to the shows, they see the social media, what are you doing? They see this guy driving this car. I'm like, oh, he's an aca or he's in home improvement.
Speaker 2:I got to jump on it and adam young said something on one of the shows about. You know, if someone's dave says he's on solar, you I should that he's not gonna get in solar because he knows nothing about solar. You're getting something that you, you have familiarity with, that you have an edge. I had an edge in solar because I knew guys running call centers that had. They trusted me. They're like dave, I need solar leads and I was actually doing solar. That made that. That caused my gave me a leg up, you know. So it comes down to what you're familiar with, what you have an understanding of, and not following that her mentality. Doing what you, because no one was doing solar. Back when I got involved I didn't know anyone fucking doing it, but now, like in a year or two years, everyone was doing it and that was kind of like the peak. It's almost like stocks. Everyone's jumping in, jumping in, jumping in. You got to get the fuck out, man. By the way, shout out to Adam.
Speaker 1:Young though. Oh, absolutely yeah. What an industry pioneer that guy is. I mean just is just changing the game, so shout out to Adam Young out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was on an IG Live in Pakistan and people were talking about paper calling Read the book, it's all there. We did a podcast, a three-hour podcast. We should have charged for that. It was so many nuggets. I was there like blown away. And it comes down to experience. I mean 13 years with you in the experience. It's worth something. It helps you collapse timeframes.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, oh, oh for sure, and but a lot of people don't see that Right. And then I think the other issue is these people out there, you know, selling these guru courses right it's like everything in those courses, for the most part right Is typically obsolete.
Speaker 1:Now I know there are some good guru courses and they're good masterminds within the industry. I'm not even going to blow them up because they got their own thing going on. I don't want to send a ton of things in there, but there's a lot of people I follow on TikTok or anything. I'll comment on it. I'm like cool, you're in affiliate marketing and you're an expert. I've never heard of you.
Speaker 2:And they lead people down these paths where they end up being unsuccessful or maybe they had success five or six years ago, but that's not applicable to now. It's like you talk about what worked when you first got into the industry. She's not going to work now.
Speaker 1:No, no, right now, honestly, like if I were to get into something Right, I'm a, I'm a native guy, right, like just because I'm not at a native platform anymore doesn't mean I don't still believe in that platform and other native platforms I honestly would start a listicle and I would find a vertical that wasn't really too beat up yet and I would start a listicle where I'd have five or six different cats.
Speaker 2:Cat Pass control cats.
Speaker 1:Well, even like accessories for cats. How many crazy cat people are out there, right? Yeah, these are the top five best accessories for cats in. Many crazy cat people are out there, right? Yeah, these are the top five best accessories for cats in 2024, right, and I find somewhere that has cat products. I get my affiliate link. I write a little blurb link right to their page, right, yeah, because no one's doing that. But how many crazy cat people are out there?
Speaker 2:right crazy I'm just talking about these at the shows either?
Speaker 1:no nobody's talking about these shows. Um, I've actually and I was telling Chance about this earlier I actually had. One of my best experiences was Affiliate World years ago.
Speaker 2:Which country was it? Barcelona, barcelona, okay.
Speaker 1:And James that you had on James Van Elswick. Yeah, he gave a whole thing on Native and it changed my world. Everything that guy said was spot on.
Speaker 2:We were going to drop his podcast, I think tomorrow tonight.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no, that guy, I mean that was one of the best that was.
Speaker 2:he blew my mind away.
Speaker 1:And I remember talking to him afterwards Cause there was like a meet and greet and I I just I'm not going. I literally lost like 10 grand on that platform. It was right when I transitioned from Facebook and I'd asked him, I said you know, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Like I followed everything that my account manager had told me and he goes why are you listening to your account manager? If he was that good, he would be a native media buyer and like the light bulb went off. I'm like you're right, and he gave me some tips that really helped me out, like me out. And it's finding those people that actually care about raising the tide of the industry, who are actually putting good information and valuable information out there.
Speaker 3:Age data, there's only a few months left of this, a lot of different ways to monetize data. Data is a very broad term. There's a lot more money in it. You already spent the money. Let's just say it cost you $10 for a Medicare. You make a million dollars in sales. You've only made a hundred thousand bucks and you might not get paid by your advertiser. What if I can get an extra 50 cents dollar, $2, $3 per lead in perpetuity? What does that do to my marketing campaign? What does that do for the stress of the profits of my company? A percentage or two at those kinds of numbers are huge as moving the needle. So for us, what I love about age data, the hard part's already been done. Now it's just the revenue left for your company. What would the extra 10, 20, $30,000 a week do for your business? Absolutely All of our big partners are making hundreds of thousands, if not millions, a year with us. They're never going to have this gold rush again.
Speaker 1:And that's one of the things I love about the Affiliate World Show is like the speakers they get. Oh, they're incredible. And that's one of the things I love about the Affiliate World shows is like the speakers they get.
Speaker 1:Oh, they're incredible. I just, I go almost just to learn Right. The networking is great, but I go to learn Right Because if you're new in this industry, I would highly recommend sitting in on all of the seminars and all of the lectures that you can go. Go to some of the masterminds that are out there, because not only do you get to absorb really good knowledge, you get to network with some of the best people in the industry. And if I could give any advice, and you understand this personal branding huge getting out there, putting yourself out there, creating a voice for yourself right, becoming somebody that becomes a thought leader Right, and my, my passion in this industry is to help lift other people up. I love talking to people who are new in the space, who come to me and say what advice would you give me? And it's talk to everybody.
Speaker 1:Relationships in this industry are the most important thing Relationships and your integrity, and if you can keep both of those things rising, you're going to go far being able to be out there. And I love talking to new people. The first thing that I always ask people when I meet them how can I help? What do you need from me? Do you need me to open a door, you need to meet somebody, you need advice. What can I do?
Speaker 1:And there are people that I've met on the very upswing of their career, who I've been friends with for years, never worked anything together. Suddenly they find themselves in a position where we can work together and it's a no brainer right. Or I've been in positions where I needed help, I needed a leads, I needed more traffic, I needed more offers and I have a great network of people that I can reach out to for that, and you understand this more than most people Like. You've built this whole amazing podcast around providing value to people in the industry, and I appreciate that so much because there needs to be more of that in this industry, of people willing to help other people even if it means they don't get anything in return, and you two guys that put this on are some of the best people in the industry.
Speaker 2:It means a lot where you said in the audience. Listen to what Sean just said. I mean, what you said was incredible. I know James Van Elstrup for a long time. He really was really instrumental in me getting into the industry. I learned how to scale campaigns with him and that's the kind of guy he is. I could see him talking to you. I can envision this. You know years ago him doing that. And I think the other thing is that you had the balls to actually speak.
Speaker 2:There's people, especially, I think, a lot of media buyers. They're not really natural salespeople, they're more introverted, like to be behind the computer. That's their gift, right. But you have to step up and get out of that comfort zone and ask questions and at those shows after an expert speaks, you might never see that person again face-to-face and they might live 3,000, 5,000, 6,000 miles from you, stand in the line or whatever. Use that time to speak to them. I've gotten deals off of that, I've made connections off of that. It's crazy man. And I've had people where I've spoken on stage at a Philly road, people waiting to speak with me and then boom, now we're doing business together, right. So you got to take advantage of that stuff.
Speaker 1:Put yourself out there. It's the biggest advice I can get, and LinkedIn's great. Yeah, a lot of people sleep on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:I love it. Yeah, it's not sexy like Instagram, TikTok, whatever, but that's where the fucking buyers are at, I mean listen.
Speaker 1:I've been blessed enough to be able to grow my own LinkedIn presence over the last few years and get that out there, and you'd be surprised the amount of people that you have access to, who you think you know what. If I saw you speak at Affiliate World, even if I couldn't find time to talk to you face to face, send you a linkedin message it's easier to access people on linkedin than it is any other methods.
Speaker 2:I think as well, but it's important.
Speaker 1:I think in this part of the conversation that I reveal something to you. Yeah, let's go. I don't have many things in this industry that upset me. Things in this industry that upset me that you what? That upset me, that make my skin crawl, make my blood boil. You know what? The number one thing that makes my blood boil is.
Speaker 2:All right, it's got to do with LinkedIn. It's got to be like these cold DMs, like something along those lines.
Speaker 1:What I call the pitch slap. You know what the pitch slap is. I've talked about this before. When somebody sends you a connection request on LinkedIn, right, like, oh, dope, whatever. Like, yeah, I like this, let me request it. And the second, the second, you accept that contact request? Five paragraph essay, cal only link at the bottom. They did no research and nine times out of 10, they have no idea what I do or if it's even relevant. Right, like I hate that. Like, I have information on LinkedIn. When I was, you know, working at the native place, you know, rev content for a while.
Speaker 1:I'm not in paper call. I have nothing to do with calls. Nine messages a day. Are you buying or selling calls? Are you buying or selling calls? Are you buying or selling calls? Are you buying or selling calls? Are you buying or selling calls? Are you buying or selling calls? No, no, I am not buying or selling calls. Right, take time with it. Send an actual message. It's not copy and pasted. Sean, love your Skype profile picture. It's so fun. Right, which was taken here. Right, something that just says hey, you know? Hey, I'm new in the space. I need some help. I'm curious to learn more about what you do. Great, I'm happy to tell you. But I'm not reading five paragraphs and then clicking your Calendly link so we can set up a call. That has nothing to do with anything, right? So that is the pitch. Slap. That is my number one industry pet peeve.
Speaker 2:Don't pitch slap. And that's huge, because in the world of sales and what we're doing, we've got to differentiate ourselves. If you're doing the same shit everyone else is doing, you're going to get the same results. There's a reason why 90% of people are fucking struggling or whatever. You've got to be that 10, 5, 10%, 1%. That's doing something different. And if you do look at the picture or you did your research, you're going to already stand out. And if you wait, you take your time to do what you're going to do, it's going to come across. See, I hate that too, man. It happens to me all the time, especially with the show now.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to give a little LFG exclusive, I'm going to pull back the curtain and I'm going to give you a tip that I've used on LinkedIn for years. That has made me a ton of money.
Speaker 2:Here we go.
Speaker 1:I send personalized videos on LinkedIn to people that I've identified as a good lead for me. A personalized video, so I'd be like hey, david, really love the podcast that you're doing. I'm a big fan, I'm a follower, I'm a subscriber. I saw you're in the solar space. I've got a ton of homeowner data that I think would be really good because no one's sending for solar right now. I think this would be good for you. Is there a chance that maybe we could connect? Does it make sense to set up a call? You let me know, but my information is below. I hope you have a great day, wow.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, I love it. How many personalized video messages.
Speaker 2:No one's ever done that to me and if they did, wow, that's great. He just made me think I have a biohacking doctor. He doesn't like to say biohacking, but when I first got connected with him he sent me a video of him and the guy's in shape and whatever. I'm like, bro, this guy looks great and he talked good. I didn't realize he was from Jersey. I signed up the next week, but he separated himself, yep, and that helped. Who knows, maybe he didn't do that. It would have taken another month or two or whatever, but I was like yo, I like this fucking guy already. Right, he separated himself, no one else. That's the first one I ever did. And that wasn't through LinkedIn, that was an SMS. How?
Speaker 1:many personalized video messages do you have in your LinkedIn? Zero, but I can attest I know you sent me one at one point years ago.
Speaker 2:So I can't. And you remember that and it works. Yeah, and you remember that. How many? You must have got 1,000, 2,000, since then he's a. Well, that's less than 1,000. The one I sent him.
Speaker 1:I was shirtless, though, so Thankfully it.
Speaker 2:Thankfully it.
Speaker 1:I was like we got to get that video. That's right, I just wanted the video.
Speaker 2:so we could put it on the show.
Speaker 1:Listen, that's the LFG exclusive content right there. That's for my OnlyFans and OnlyFans only. Bro, this is good you guys missed.
Speaker 2:We have the pussy offer we're about to do. It's about pest control. No, it's not what you think it's about. Right, not what you think. Yeah, not. What strategy. Boom, we gotta start charging for this shit.
Speaker 1:This is like fucking uh I'm telling you, it only works if they're a solid lead like don't just cold video I don't want to get 19 video messages tomorrow in my linkedin inbox because find somebody that actually makes sense and it's one shot one kill on that, bro.
Speaker 2:That is such a great idea. I love it. Man. Like my brain, I get excited when I hear that kind of shit because, like my brain's already like I want to call the salesman yo motherfuckers, let's go, let's do this right now.
Speaker 1:Come on, man and it tell you it makes all the difference in the world. Like, take two seconds, look at it and I I trained sdrs like this. I said I'm not paying you based on how many messages you send out. I'm paying how many leads you set up. Yeah, how many calls you set up. Right, I want you to find the ones that are fit, even if you only give me two meetings a week, as long as they're like solid that's all you need that's all I need.
Speaker 1:I don't want to waste my time time is right, man yeah and so, like you know, when you're developing talent and you're bringing talent up, teach them about the value of quality over quantity. This industry isn't a. It isn't a boiler room where it's just like the more dials you make, the the more calls you get. No, like it's quality over quantity.
Speaker 2:Which is what you learned initially, because you were used to doing.
Speaker 1:I was that guy.
Speaker 2:The door-to-door guy, the hard-to-know sale, and you had to get a train kicked out of you right, Smiling and dialing, you know that was the thing the more doors you knock, the more sales you get Get out there.
Speaker 1:So much different and I was lucky enough to have really great mentors early on and I'm not going to shout them out, because they don't like when I shout them out. They know who they are, who instilled a lot of this stuff in me 12 years ago that I have taken with me and that's worked since then, that I've trained other people with and it's just about, like you said, setting yourself apart. It doesn't matter if you're media buying, if you're prospecting on social media, if you're at a show and you're networking like how many people know me because of the bright orange pants that I wear?
Speaker 2:It was funny. I just thought about that right now. You talked about shows and how when I first saw you and I see you many times with bright colors on and whatever yeah, it's amazing, when I first started I was wearing these like bright blazers, pink blazers, like nice looking blazer, but people knew me as a blazer guy, or initially yeah, I'm the orange pants guy.
Speaker 1:Wow, uh, but you do that because you want to set yourself apart. 100 right like uh. One of the the books that I've read I'm an avid reader, uh was the 48 laws of power by robert green great book, right, and there's a law in that book that says court attention at all costs.
Speaker 1:Force people to come to you, set yourself apart, right. What's better than bright orange pants? 100%, yeah. People came up to me at shows like, dude, what's with the pants? I got to know what's with the pants. Dude, those are great pants. Right, and you know Affiliate Summit, right, it's coming up. You might have a meeting with somebody. You don't know what's better than at the bar bright orange pants.
Speaker 2:It's the worst when you can't find someone at those shows.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because then you're walking around like this?
Speaker 2:Like a jerk-off Tom.
Speaker 1:Tom, it's like you know, I'm not that guy. Bright orange pants. Now here at Diablo I got some fire red pants Nice Are you going to wear them at ASC? Oh yeah, they're at my tailor. Shout out to Florence here in Delray Beach. Florence has got them right now she's tailoring them up because I have the weirdest body proportion ever. Leather, no, I wish, please.
Speaker 2:I love having an audience too. You got me thinking.
Speaker 1:I might need to get some red leather pants.
Speaker 2:I need to get some leather pants.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, now I'm literally I'm going to go home and Google red leather pants for a man with a big belly and short legs. But yeah, it's all about setting yourself apart, right, and making that difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know what you got me thinking because I'm a big believer, especially after starting the LFG show. It's really wild to me how we work with all these media buyers. People put up stupid numbers. This guy's doing $100,000 a day, $200,000, $300,000, $400,000 a day in revenue. You've probably seen guys do more than that, but their branding sucks. They have no LinkedIn presence. Mine was soup, truthfully, back in years. It's gotten better and better and Chance has done a great job of building it up.
Speaker 3:It's gotten better and better and Chance has done a great job of building it up.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Chance. Shout out to Chance. Chance in the background wearing the no Money, no Honey t-shirt. That's right. The point I'm trying to say is that they know how to get people to click on ads. They know how to do these crazy fucking ways ad copies and that but they get shy about promoting themselves. It's crazy and I'm realizing, even when I'm interviewing people, I'll like, I'll have some chance to see it.
Speaker 2:I've had some Titans putting up stupid fucking numbers that you're like don't add nine figures a year in revenue, and then they're like man, I came off looking terrible. I'm like what the fuck are you talking about? You came out looking good but like people are so self-conscious. So you gotta, you gotta break through that because really, that these guys are doing ACA. That got fucking crushed there where they pivoted to next. So that brand recognition is what's going to help you stand and whether you, whether it's going to shows and it kind of compliments you. When you go to show, people like, oh, I saw you on that podcast, or so you speak here, or I saw you, you know, wearing those pants on LinkedIn, whatever. That shit goes a long way. So it's it's mind-boggling to me how there's such a big disconnect between these amazing media buyers who are just terrible, and I think maybe, if I had to say it, I'd probably say there's 1% to 3% that are actually good at it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that led me to make the move to Diablo right is Diablo's been around for 18 plus years.
Speaker 1:They've got really good industry presence. I feel like they have a really good sense of how the industry works and the importance of relationships. They've gotten really good branding themselves Like ownership is really great. And so when I was making the transition I wanted to go somewhere that had that industry presence already right Like it is tiring for me to have to come in and then carry the weight of also being the presence for that company right With Diablo, like it's a, it's a door's already open and what they've got with the affiliate network side and they've done a really good job of building up a really good, strong affiliate base, vetted, strong affiliates.
Speaker 1:They have a really good group of advertisers and campaigns with great payouts. We have an internal product. We have all of our own owned and operated pages. We have our internal product, that we have all of our own owned and operated pages. We have our own path. And then what a lot of people don't know is we have a really good data management and data monetization department as well. So when I even when I started I didn't realize anything beyond a lot of the network capabilities. But once I've kind of gotten in there and been able to kind of work with the team, see where we're at. There's a lot of different opportunities there able to kind of work with the team, see where we're at.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of different opportunities there and one of the things that excites me the most about that is a lot of affiliates and a lot of media buyers out there aren't taking advantage of the big picture of all of the different opportunities they have. They're so laser focused on. I have traffic here, I send traffic here, I get money here. But there's so many other opportunities to collect data, to do retargeting, to look at other areas of revenue that you can work on bringing in Other than just the binary. I send traffic, they send money. There's so many other opportunities to venture into different traffic sources.
Speaker 1:If you're only running Facebook right now, why not get into native traffic? Nothing's stopping you Like, why not get into native traffic? Nothing's stopping you If you can, if you can navigate the waters of Facebook and the complicated ads manager and the platform and all of that stuff. Native is easy, right Like. Native is easy.
Speaker 1:And if you want to get into native, shameless plug for my boy, will, who works over at rev content. Will is immensely talented and he will help you get into it. If you want to get into it, shout out to. Will have to do that because he's my boy. Love to see him succeed. But get into those things right. Start experimenting, start collecting data, start doing email right Like data is huge. There's so many opportunities and so many people are sitting on a mountain of data they're doing nothing with. Why, right Like? That's what excites me about this opportunity that I've got is we have the ability, like they, have foresight into what other areas can we do to make money, and they've literally answered the call every single time. So if you're out there and you're only focused on one thing branch out. Go to these shows like Affiliate Summit, go to Affiliate World. Meet people, shake everybody's hand, figure out what they do, ask how you can help diversify out, find other opportunities to make money and grow your revenue.
Speaker 2:Great advice and I can't emphasize that. What you're saying is amazing. I want people to hear that again because it's out there for you. The gold's under your feet. Get the gold, make the connections and talk to people. The more you talk to people, the more you're going to find them, the connections, and you talk to people. The more you talk to people, the more you're going to find them and people are willing to help out, like you say. You like that. You ask people how can I help you? You talk to the right people. I mean by you talking to james at their show that help you collapse time frames. I'm a big believer in how can I get from a to z quick, as quick as possible. You gotta go to an expert that's already doing it and he told you you talk to him, maybe a few minutes and boom, he saved you so much fucking time and money right at the end of the day. So it's out there. That's a beautiful thing about the industry.
Speaker 1:And there are people who are genuinely looking to help. Right, we all are here because somebody sent the ladder down for us. So I think we have a responsibility to put the ladder back down for the next generation coming up. And I'm I'll tell you, I've taken so many calls that benefited me nothing, but I was able to find out what they were looking for, connect them with who they were looking for. Like even right now, whenever somebody's out of a job, I'm typically the first person they come to. Hey, what do I do? Hey, do you know anybody looking? Like, I don't know where to start my search? Right, and I'm there to help. Right, they start a new job, like, do you know any good affiliates? Do you know any good offers? Right, like, be that resource for other people. So if you're a veteran out there and you're shutting those people and you're not taking those calls, like, take those calls, get on that call. Right, because that person that you helped today might start their own company that could make you a million dollars tomorrow.
Speaker 2:You just don't know that what you said is so important, is so massive, and I'm a good example of this. So I have someone that I used to do a lot of business with in solar right and something happened. I don't know what happened. Wasn't there anymore, it was shifted, went away, went one place to another, didn't work out and gave him advice, hooked him up with a bunch of people. Lo and behold, two months ago gets into another company, man completely different, vertical bro. We're about to hit 200 grand this month. Of them, first fucking month, and the kpis are amazing. You know I'm going to get this campaign 500 000 million a month. Yeah, you know, and it's all because of those little things.
Speaker 2:And when someone's going through a hard time, if you're there for them and I'm not saying you do this to, you know, because you expect I wasn't expecting shit and you're like you said. There's been so many times I've had these conversations with people help and get well, I was like that, that that ear to listen to or whatever, and nothing came of it. I wasn't expecting anything. But that's just one of those examples where you just do the right thing. Eventually the right thing will come back to you and if it and sometimes it doesn't happen right away like my part business partner had.
Speaker 2:I met this guy in 2017 at ase in new york. We didn't fucking do business for like a year. Then we did tiny amounts of business and, bro fucking, four years later, we merged one of the fastest growing companies in the industry. We've got tons of different verticals going on, like diversified, different revenue streams, but that's what happens. You don't have to expect this shit to happen right away. It takes time, but if you do the right thing, this shit will come back to you one way or the other 100% and listen.
Speaker 1:I practice what I preach, right? My nephew sitting right back there is recently got into the industry working for a company that does marketing for gyms. I've been sitting there listening to him all week working, putting together content, writing scripts, learning about media buying. That's why I wanted to bring him today because I wanted him to see how good this industry can be for people and whatever that kid needs back there I'm willing to help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. And that's shit. You never know. He might get involved with something and boom, it opens doors. Yeah, that kid right, there is my retirement plan. I love it, man. So that's my kids too. I got to train their asses up. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So if you could have a chance to help, help and if you need help, reach out. Like I don't care if we get on a call and you just ask me questions for an hour and there's no benefit to me. I want to help you if I can introduce you to somebody. If you're looking for something like, let me be that resource, let me be that person great stuff, man.
Speaker 2:So now we just talked about a lot of good. We talked about all these beautiful things we like about the industry. I want to talk next about what's. What's the shit you don't like. What's like the the icky shit man that fucking drives.
Speaker 1:Man, well, we covered the pitch, slap number one. But with Affiliate Summit coming up, right, I tell you what? Like? I've worked the meat market several, several times. Right, and ASE is not as bad as ASW.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that I can't stand is when you're working the booth, somebody comes up. You both realized there's no business to be done, and then they just keep talking and talking and talking. And then you're watching people that are good leads walk by and talk to somebody else, so they're going to the booth of your competitor down the and it's just like okay, let's move on. Like I hate the people that linger at the booth of your competitor down the and it's just like okay, let's move on. Like I hate the people that linger at the booth to linger. It's like there is a large floor there. There is a lot of people to talk to. Like, I get that. I like to talk. I am a people person and the thing is I don't have the self-control to tell you I'm done talking. I will sit there because I'm polite and I will keep talking and engaging.
Speaker 2:What are you thinking on the inside? Please stop talking to me, oh my god, did that person just?
Speaker 1:walk by. I know they're running a ton of leads right now. Yeah, I need that person like what am I going to do later? Which happy hour is it? Do I have enough liquid iv with me for this trip? Did I bring visine? Do I have a modium? Like it's just like. It's just like. Oh man, I hate that so much. Or, worst case scenario, you're at the Chandelier Bar, which I Love the Chandelier Bar.
Speaker 1:I call it my second home. It's weird, I tell you. It's weird, when you go to the Chandelier Bar, when you're there for, like, personal reasons.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's way different.
Speaker 1:And there's civilians there no-transcript and then somebody just walks up was like what are you guys talking about? Fuck yeah, it's so. So those are the things I hate. Like don't interrupt meetings and don't linger at somebody's booth. If you've already swapped information, move it on, unless you're talking about business just trying to close, shout out to the people that are closing, but if there's nothing closing, then you've got to keep it going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dude, that's great. Now, you guys, I agree with you. I'm trying to think what my worst? Yeah, what's your industry?
Speaker 1:man, what do you hate besides miami traffic?
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, yeah, miami traffic and the drivers, man, they fucking, they drive me nuts. But anyway, uh, probably there's something similar. I'm not on skype much, but when I got so many skypes I got like thousands of these motherfuckers, man, it's like non-stop. You buy leads, you buy calls, like they're just cold, hitting you up maybe because they saw me somewhere and not understanding what I do, man, and just you're trying to. You know, what happens is you're trying to find a fucking message. You got to go through all this kind of stuff so, uh, that that drives me nuts. And I guess it comes down to you.
Speaker 2:As a salesperson, someone that got into salesman I've been in sales fucking 20, over 20 years. I think there's an, there's an art to it. I love the art of sales and I think that's what you were saying, that's what, that's what bothers you as well. You gotta, if you respect the art and you do the steps you're supposed to do, it'll pay you back, right? So when I see people try to like jump through that or try to get from point a to point z and like I want to get there quick, don't get me wrong, but there's certain steps you got to follow too, especially in the sales process. So that drives me nuts. And then when I see other people from other companies, you know they might seem like they're. They're nice people. Maybe they weren't trained properly, I don't know what it is, but you got to train yourself, you got to take that kind of the initiative to get better is what it comes down to.
Speaker 2:And I think that our industry could be. It could jade people because you see, especially on social media, you might see this person driving this or doing that or wearing that watch and then like, boom, I want to get there, or if I'm not at that level, i'm'm not successful. But everyone is at where they're supposed to be at that time, and that could be bullshit. That might not even be a real fucking watch. So I think, don't get caught up in that kind of stuff. So I think that when people they get caught up in it and they try to cut corners or they bullshit you. Really, I guess my biggest thing is the bullshitting that goes on. Oh yeah, and I feel like the longer you but every so often the shit slips gets on you, especially with fucking referrals the time that guy I'm burned someone I trust refers someone to me, and it doesn't happen often.
Speaker 2:90 something percent of the time it'll be fine, but that five or ten percent, that's when you really get fucking burned. You let your guard down. So we put things in place in our company to to prevent that like ways. Okay, I, I pat, they pass my sift test. Now they got to go this, we got compliance, we. You know what I'm saying. So that's probably my biggest thing is people trying to collapse timeframes the wrong way by not respecting the art of sales and also just bullshitting their way through it. Eventually you're going to get caught, man Bullshit referrals are the absolute worst.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm getting pissed off just thinking about it, man. It's a fucking waste of time. It's a fucking waste of time. I am Dude man.
Speaker 1:But you know what's? One thing that I've seen over the last decade or so is the industry's grown up a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think a lot of that more professionalism and more like actual business type of things I think has come from the amount of women that we now have in leadership.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great point. Glad you brought that up.
Speaker 1:Like right now I have tons of of fomo because all of my friends are at link unite in nashville, right like the movement that amanda and sarah have started there about, not only like empowering the women in the industry, but like networking them together and creating this group like the industry has become leaps and bounds since, because when I got in, I mean it was a boys club, it was the wildest, I can't imagine man.
Speaker 1:It was a weird place back then, but we have grown up so much and we've gotten so much better and I personally attribute it to the fact that we've got more women in leadership in this industry and I think much more is even needed. So I love the fact that you've got, you know, the Link Unite crowd, you've got the female entrepreneurs and the business owners groups and you've got the more of that the better, and I am the biggest advocate of all of that because it really helps make the industry more legitimate. But I think it helps grow the industry and helps all of us make more money because of their influence and what they're doing. It's phenomenal.
Speaker 2:And it's always become a self-policing at that point, because if you're a female in Link Unite, I mean you're obviously going to look to grow the organization, be a good representative of the organization. If you screw something up, that's going to look bad on them. It's a reflection. You're not going to be part of that right. So you kind of have it's like someone watching over you without watching over you.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying. Yeah, so I mean again, if you're a woman in this space and you haven't joined Link Unite yet or haven't gotten involved in that kind of movement, I encourage you to do so. Like I said, they're all in Nashville right now at an amazing retreat. I know some of the different speakers they're going to have. I'm jealous, I can't be there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wish I was there too.
Speaker 1:I'm sure it it's going to be fantastic and I can't wait to hear about it after the weekend's over and to see everybody in New York. But you know what? I'm here at the LFG show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we are making a difference here right now, with our audience of hundreds that are back there, and a bunch of beer over there too, and a bunch of beer over there.
Speaker 1:So I think those things really help push us forward, and the more of that we get, the less we get of the bullshitters and the people that can't make it. This industry, I feel, does a great job of removing the people that don't belong. In Every two, three, four years, there's like this thing that comes around, just washes a bunch of people away, and I think it's the best thing ever.
Speaker 2:It's a big. There's a great point, man. I went my first leads kind of ever went to was in 2017. First affiliate summit was 2017 and it's it's.
Speaker 2:I would love to go back in time in a time machine, because there were some people I see that I saw the first two or three years and it turned out they're a bullshit artist, right, and then you don't, they're gone. They like, every year there's, there's, there's an attrition that happens and then you get some new bloods that come in as well. But it's just, it is. It is. It's an awesome thing and it's just one of those things where it's it's an industry that rewards the right shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you do wrong shit. Boom, you get the reputation and then you know you might make a mistake here, that you fix a mistake. Great people fucking appreciate that. But you keep doing the same shit. It spreads and then, boom, your income is going to go down dramatically. You're going to be in another business is what's going to happen. So that that's what I like about it, but I keep thinking about that. The first leads con, the first affiliate summit. I remember faces, man. They haven't seen these fucking guys in years and years and years. Like what happened to them is because it's the industry man. If you do the right thing, you stay right with the right principles, it's going to come back to you. It really does. It's a boomerang.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. And this is what I to the shows. Go to as many shows as you can go to, because the more that you're in front of people, the more that you see people, the more people see you, the more trust is built, the more relationships you can build. And I always tell people in this industry if you're out of sight, you're out of mind. Because if I'm an affiliate and I'm spending $100,000, $200,000 a month, I want to know that your company is going to pay, right. But there's also, like so many people, that look at it from a different perspective, like you have to look at it. If I don't go, what am I missing out on? Right? Sure, there's an expense to sending people, there's an expense to going, but it's a chance for you to network in person, which is super important because you can develop those relationships. But it's also important to be seen Right.
Speaker 1:I'm going to have bright red pants on. People are going to see me. They're going to associate me with Diablo, and that's what I want, because Diablo is my home. Those are my people right now and I am happy to be there and I want to let the world know that Diablo is here. We have a presence. We are open for business and we are doing well, right. But the second you stop going to these things, people are going to start wondering what happened? Oh, what happened? Like, oh, you guys still good, you didn't have a booth this year, yeah, you know, we're good. And it's like are you good, like you know, and you start wondering and, like you said to your point going to shows in 2017, like I would love to see a list of people at affiliate summities 2017, who are also still there in 2020.
Speaker 2:the company's in the exhibitors right. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Like you have your mainstays that I would trust with. You know anything because they've been there. But there's so many companies out there that come in, spend $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 in sponsorships and they're all over. And next year, where are they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy that longevity man.
Speaker 1:Memberships, integrity, bringing it all back right. Chance told me that he's like you got to bring it all back. At the end you got to do a throwback to the beginning of the episode, so we can tie it all back in.
Speaker 2:So the promo looks good. I love it. Last, another thing I want to talk about is we were talking about Philly Summit Alliance. It's in four weeks. It's funny because I don't know what's going on recently. Maybe it has to do with covid, but these fucking, these conferences being jammed up. I when march, there was a ton april. I was in vegas three times in april. Man utah, once it was insane, uh, and then. So there's been a little bit of a lull, which has been great in terms of getting back to people following up, because that's the other aspect of it. So now it's about to start again. We got affiliate summit, first conference in a while. Then you, there's contact io coming up right after that. Then there's Affiliate World. It's going to get crazy again. What are you looking forward to with Affiliate Summit? Another question is any tips on navigating it. It's not as big as ASW, but it's still a big show. When you're in New York, there's a lot of shit going on.
Speaker 1:I'm going to reveal some more stuff. These are personal secrets of mine.
Speaker 1:That's all I'm trying to get to things that I've been doing that you know there's not many people in the industry that know how I work these. So I love shows because I love I'm a people person, right. Like I work in an office in my house, largely by myself, right, I crave people for energy, like I need that after a while. So going to these shows is so great because I get the energy of seeing the people. So a couple things that I do I like to wear pants with different pockets because I will triage cards that I get based on the opportunity. Great advice, right, like, if you go into the back left, that's the money, that's the money pocket right Back left, if you go front right, you're probably not even getting a follow-up from me, right? So I like to make sure. Sure, because at the end of the day you don't know. You're like, oh, which ones are good, which ones are bad? You have to sift through there. No, front right goes right into the suitcase. I don't throw them away right in the suitcase. I'll deal with them later. Back left is the money pocket. I will email them follow-up question their follow-up emails. That night in the hotel room I get back, boom, right there, done, because I don't want to get home, right, because, again, standing out that that you know, first day back after the show everyone's sending up, everybody's inboxes are flooded, I like to get to them that night. A great meeting you. Today let me drop my link. You know, let's set up a meeting for when we get back, pick any time that makes sense. Right, done, right. Also, if they don't have a card, I like to take a quick selfie with them and then text them my information and say you know, this is Sean from Diablo Media. You know, like, you know, I'm excited to talk about, you know, homeowner data, right, and then I remember what they look like. I got their name, I got their information and I'm good, right, it's another way to do it. The other thing that's really important to do and the biggest lie that you'll tell and I hope you tell it a million times hey, I'll be right back, right. Once I'm in the conversation, once we're good, we've gotten to that point again, like where we're just bullshitting, I need to move on, like, hey, listen, I love this, I'll be right back, right.
Speaker 1:And then also try to, you know, try to work every room, do a lap, stop at every booth, grab cards. Talk to people. Try to talk to as many people as you can. You're only there for two, three days. Right, work everything, wear comfortable shoes. Right, you can sleep when you get home. Try to hit every event. You can Talk to everybody in every event. Get out there. The more people you meet, meet, the more relationships you can start working on and the more business you can get right. But I like to email that night back left pocket. They all get emails that night right away, so it's fresh in the inbox I love the selfie idea.
Speaker 2:I've been doing that a lot more recently. You talk to so many damn people, especially if it's a big opportunity. Hey, you're digging a selfie, getting a text right away. So you stand out. Because how many people are doing that? I bet you only. Maybe I'll say 10, 50 if you're lucky. They're actually doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the other thing is that there's a warp sense of time at the, especially in vegas. Man, I don't know what the fuck it is of the vegas. I'm there and man and expect I'm an east coast guy, and when I'm there I'm like I, I don't set meetings for me, so I'm missing all my fucking meetings. I'm there, I it's, it's all a mess up. But the point is that you feel like even a show like ASW or Elisa there's one that was three days. Those three days are like a day, because a show is usually like nine to four, nine to five or ten to whatever. There's a half day and it goes by so fast. It's incredible. Like you said, you've got to really be cognizant of your time and what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, triage your time, figure out where the best opportunities are. Big on setting up meetings before you go. Right Like, I like to be one of the first people out there on LinkedIn saying, hey, I'm going to be an affiliate, somebody is, here's my link. Right Like, I like to be first out there because I've been in the position where it's like I decided last minute to go and then all the good meetings are already taken. Right Like, I'm going out there scouting, hoping I can put something together.
Speaker 1:But do your homework. Go to LinkedIn, click hashtag ASE, look at all of the posts, reach out to people, engage with all of those posts, because when you engage with all of those posts and you comment on all of them, when you get to ASE, it's like dang, dude, I've seen you all over LinkedIn. You're that guy from LinkedIn. Like dude, you're on everything right, everything right. Like, stand out, you know, put the time, put the effort in to work the show properly. Right, I don't think that there is a show that I can even recall where I haven't came back with roi.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I will find a way to make roi right, because I'm there for a purpose. So many people and, like I, did a whole thing when I started at rev. I have a whole blog post out there called the Booze and Don'ts of Affiliate Summit, how I get away with going. I mocktail it. I wear comfortable shoes. I choose between staying out late or getting intoxicated. If I'm staying out late, I'm not getting intoxicated. If I'm not staying out late, then I might have a few more. How early do I have to be up in the morning? There's a whole science behind it and you have to really live to the code.
Speaker 1:Right Now there are exceptions. You know what I'm talking about. You got a whale in town. He's only in town. That first Cause I usually first night before meat market I'm not drinking. I am not drinking the night before meat market because I got to work that booth all day and I do not want to sit at that booth looking at you. I don't want to sit at that booth and I want to be hungover all day because I'm not going to get any business done Right. So, but if there's a whale in town, it says I'm only in town tonight, let's go out. You got to do what you got, what you gotta do, make it happen. Right, you make it happen, but it's all about again, contacts. Talk to people, set yourself apart yeah, that was.
Speaker 2:That was fantastic what you just said. I do believe there's a I. I should put down my, what I do, because those events to me are like the fucking playoffs. Sometimes some of them are super bowl. Uh, for, for your year, you can make your year, you can make your fucking career off one of those shows 100%. So you got to be at multiple places, you got to be out late and you're right, you sleep when you get home. I mean, I fucking there's been at some of those shows one hour, two hours, three hours, like four to six hours over three days. I've slept and I'm like, why the fuck do I do this to myself? But, bro, the amount of business that gets done at the after parties, early morning breakfast, it works, man, you can't deny it, especially if you do it right. So, yeah, I'm glad that you did that, man, and I should probably have my.
Speaker 2:I have similar rules to yours as well, but everyone's got to have that game plan. If you go there without a fucking game, we're talking about playoffs. These coaches have a game plan. Right, they have things. If the game plan doesn't go through, like you said, there's a well in town. Okay, that's what I'm going to do. You've got to go there with a fucking game plan. If you don't, you're going to miss out, man, you're going to miss out to your competitor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, listen, we're here in South Florida, right, shout out to Florida Panthers Stanley up, paul maurice had a game plan, but sometimes any well plan can go off the rails at any time and you got to make that adjustment to come back right. So it's the same with affiliate summit. Like you got to know, like I got to push this hard this day, I got to back off. This day. I could take a little break here, I could take a little break there.
Speaker 1:There's a rhythm, but it is game time. The second you get off that plane, like I want to have meetings set up when I get off that plane. I like I want to have meetings set up when I get off that plane. I go right to a meeting Non-stop. I'm just throwing myself at the front desk of the hotel, take it up to the room, I'm business mode, I'm out there and that's how you got to handle those shows.
Speaker 1:A lot of people go to those shows and they're like, oh, I'm here to party, I'm here to work, because if I don 10 times ROI on what the company spent to put me out there, I failed.
Speaker 1:Right Now there might not be ROI that you get right after the show, right, but you should be able to look back at the 12 months from a show and say here's the ROI I made directly from that show and it's important to track all of that.
Speaker 1:All those leads you get should go into some kind of system, whether it's a Google Doc or something, so you can attribute where you met that lead, so you can figure out the roi from each specific show, because there are so many now. Right, like when I got in, there was affiliate summit east, affiliate summit west, there was ad tech and san fran and there was maybe one other one. But now there's so many shows and they're all great because we've niched out, which is fantastic but it's really good. You have to track the roi from those shows to make sure, like next year, which ones are we going to go to where we can maximize the opportunity? Which ones do we get a booth at? Which ones we just send one or two people? Which ones do we sponsor a party? Right, and you're not going to get that without tracking those opportunities yeah, great, great advice, man.
Speaker 2:And the other thing is that it might not, you might meet someone. I got a couple situations like that. I met Affiliate World a couple of years ago and they were in a vertical. I wasn't even in. But sometimes you want to be in that vertical. You stay in touch with them. You go back to that master sheet and you put a simple thing Maybe it's fucking final expense or whatever. Control that final expense. Hey, are you still doing that? And it's good to have that system, because if you don't have that person's card, you're not, you're going to forget. It's happened to me too, on the other side, where I don't know what the hell I did. I lost a damn card. I can't find the number. I know I had it somewhere and like it's gone. I'm like what the hell? I mean, it rarely happens, but it's happened to me too and I'm pretty good, I'm pretty militant when it comes to this shit, but even happens. The front, right pocket people.
Speaker 1:I told you I don't throw those away. I have an old school baseball card binder where all of those cards live, because I never know I might have to go back and figure out who was that guy that I talked to. Right, I save all I've got cards from like 10 years ago. Yeah, because you never know. You never know.
Speaker 2:You never know, fucking love it.
Speaker 1:This has been amazing. Chance is standing up now, so I know we've got to wrap this up. He's standing up.
Speaker 2:This has been amazing, man. I mean God, whenever you have time, whenever you have, anyone in life has the ability to talk. Someone's been doing something for a long time. They've mastered the craft right, so you've got to learn from them. So that's how I look to you, az, and a lot of people we try to have on the show. But there's been there haven't been many people on the show who've been doing this for more than a decade man. So the fact that you've done this over a decade man, it says a lot and I just I love the everything you talked about. You talked about you. Pull back the curtain, man. Give us some good nuggets here and fucking excited.
Speaker 1:All boats, rise there. If you want to work with diablo, you want to work with me? Shout out. I'm sure chance is going to put the link for me, or how do you get a hold of me somewhere? And also shout out to the best nephew in the world back there. His name is riley. I'm going to tag him in my linkedin profile too. Go ahead and follow him. Shoot him a connection request. Let's blow him up a little bit too yeah, let's do it guys.
Speaker 2:We'll put a link so people can follow you. I'm gonna be doing shit with diablo. We talk offline about.
Speaker 1:I've got a bunch of stuff Good shit my man.
Speaker 2:Dude, good shit, Follow me on social. Let's fucking go baby.
Speaker 1:Let's fucking go Done that was good man.
Speaker 2:Good shit man, that was good.