The LFG Show
Talking with movers and shakers who grew up with nothing and worked their asses off to achieve success. Let's 🤬 Go!!!!
The LFG Show
Keep Your Ears To The Street ft. Jamal English
💥 What does it take to become one of the fastest-growing companies in America?
Jamal English, CEO of EDM Network — ranked #33 on the Inc. 5000 list — pulls back the curtain on how he built a multimillion-dollar lead generation machine that’s redefining how publishers and advertisers do business.
🎯 This is more than lead gen — it’s a full-blown ecosystem:
✅ Media buying at scale
✅ Publisher support and monetization tools
✅ Advertiser platforms built on real transparency
✅ Innovative SaaS products that give everyone an edge
EDM stands for Evolving Dynamic Media, and they live up to the name. Their secret sauce? Radical transparency.
By showing advertisers exactly where every lead comes from, they took 90-day retention rates from 30% to over 90%.
But this episode goes deeper than growth headlines. Jamal gets real on:
💸 Writing off nearly \$2 million in one year — and what he learned
🧠 How EDM protects itself with credit checks, terms, and receivables insurance
📊 Turning business goals into equations and hitting numbers with precision
📈 A financing program that’s taken media buyers from \$10K/month to over \$1M
🗣️ Quote you need to hear:
"Turn your business into an equation. Reverse engineer the number you want, then build the activity required to get there."
This is a must-watch for:
🔥 Media buyers looking to scale smart
🔥 Publishers who want more from their traffic
🔥 Advertisers tired of guessing where their leads come from
🎙️ Welcome to The LFG Show. We bring you the top minds in media, marketing, and making money.
Connect with EDM Network today and see how their ecosystem can help you hit your growth goals.
Subscribe for more.
Big shoutout to our sponsors: RoofsInABox.com and Ringba.
👇 Drop a comment and let us know your biggest takeaway from Jamal’s journey.
Timestamps:
0:00
What EDM Network Does Exactly
3:00
Growing Pains and Challenges
12:25
Transparency and Trust in Lead Generation
19:30
The Power of Media Financing
29:52
Creating Value Through Technology
40:05
Networking Strategies for Success
50:10
Entrepreneurship and Personal Growth
58:30
Final Thoughts and Contact Information
What does EDM do exactly? Edm stands for Evolving Dynamic Media, and when you think about EDM, I want you to think about an ecosystem, and that ecosystem is comprised of a lot of different facets. We do media buying ourselves. We also have a publisher division. We have an advertiser division where we host exchange, and we also have an offer network where advertisers or brands that want to host their offers through our platform and use our technology and service and support. They can use that for that capacity as well. Media buyers and publishers can plug into that ecosystem. We have a BPO side of our business which we just converted into another platform it's called EDM Global Solutions which allows businesses to be able to connect directly with the resources for whatever they need. But that's not really where the value is created. The value is created where we can give people the autonomy to be able to control their own destiny, and it ends up costing them a lot less money ultimately.
Speaker 2:Get ready to level your shit up with the LFG Show. We travel the globe to bring you heavy hitters from all walks of life. We've been talking some serious business, from the best digital marketers, government contracting experts to top athletic and celebrity doctors We've got it all covered. We're talking to guys who've cashed in for billions with a? B and the best thing is we're just getting started. So hold on tight. We're about to crank it up a notch. Get ready for next level networking and masterminds within the LFG community.
Speaker 3:Scare money, don't make no money or honey. Hit the subscribe button, drop a like, leave a comment and let's fucking go. Lfg Show. We are back. We are in Hollywood. We're in Hollywood. Man, how does it feel to be in Hollywood? I?
Speaker 1:love Florida, I love Florida, but it's always good to be down south.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're in Hollywood with Jamal English EDM Network. I don't even know your title, man. What is your title at EDM? I'm the CEO, ceo of EDMm, and we got rita, rita, ceo or what was rita?
Speaker 3:he's the president he'll be, he'll be next, he'll be next up over here, presidente. So listen guys, leads, it's a great business I spoke in puerto rico a month ago about. My first thing I said was in my speech was how many of you guys love leads? People raise their hands. How many of you guys hate leads? They raise their hands. Same motherfuckers that raise their hand, that love it, hate it, right, yeah. So listen, it's a great industry. We've we've done good business together.
Speaker 3:We made good money with leads, but my whole conversation there was about how the fuck do you get deeper, how you take more piece of the pie, and I think that's one thing you guys have been very successful at. I know that's been one of your obsessions and your passion, so there's going to be I'm very happy to have you and have Rita on the show, because I want to talk about that. How do we go make money with leads? How do you go deeper and make more money and bring more value to your clients? Because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about, and you guys have been good partners to us at Connection Holdings very trustworthy, credible. We made good money. You've also given us suggestions that have helped us from losing money. So I want to go deep with you on this show. Man, I appreciate you being here. Man, no for sure I appreciate you, david.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me man.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so for the audience. A lot of people know you guys. You guys do a great job with branding. But for the audience that doesn't know you, what does EDM do exactly?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so EDM stands for Evolving Dynamic Media. A know a lot of people don't know what EDM stands for, but it stands for Evolving Dynamic Media. And when you think about EDM, I want you to think about an ecosystem, and that ecosystem is comprised of a lot of different facets. So we do media buying ourselves. We also have a publisher division. We have an advertiser division where we host, exchange, an offer network where advertisers or brands that want to host their offers through our platform and use our technology and service and support they can use that for that capacity as well. Media buyers and publishers can plug into that ecosystem. We have a BPO side of our business which we just converted into another platform that's called EDM Global Solutions, which allows businesses to be able to connect directly with the resources for whatever they need. So in the past you know it's a lot of pressure to create all these different services that an agency can be able to provide.
Speaker 3:There is a new endeavor called Roofs in the Box. It's just man from day one. It's taken off.
Speaker 4:When I first started getting in the roofing industry, what was happening was my fixed costs were always there, and so for me, I was looking at how can we kind of one, save on these costs and then, two, how do I not lay people off during down times, but also maybe even the ability to pocket more money during the slow season or even the peak season.
Speaker 4:Since we've done this before, like with our lead gen companies where we have virtual staffing and from Argentina or Columbia, I'm like why don't we do the same thing in the construction business? Now, once we figured it out, we reduced their fixed costs by 70%, and so now during the downtime, they have real seasoned veteran type of players and but during the uptime they pocket. 70% of their operational costs are now going back in their pocket, and then, when it's time to scale, you have the backend prepared, already ready to go to help them lift off. Depending on what state you're in, you're averaging about 12.5% on what you pay out on taxes, insurance, like all the different insurances that you have to pay out, right? So, yeah, you don't have to pay out unemployment, you don't have to pay out bike insurance, medicare, social Security the things that business owners have to eat.
Speaker 4:Roofs to Box is not just limited to roofing or home improvement companies. You can use it for any services, right? You can use it for IT. We use them internally for data cells, for hygiene, for analytics. It doesn't even matter what the vertical is Like business in the box at the end of the day, pretty much, yeah, but that's not really where the value is created.
Speaker 1:The value is created where you can give people the autonomy to be able to control their own destiny and it ends up costing them a lot less money ultimately. That's really kind of why we created Global Solutions. You know it's a place where, all right, I'm going to give you the direct resources that know how to do what you're looking for them to do and just plug them into your business. So that's become another big facet of our business. And then, of course, we do have some SaaS-based products where to connect you directly with brands, curated offers, things that you guys can be able to monetize with consistently across every single industry, vertical and product type that you want to be able to sell, and we think about the business in those categories. So there's industries, there's verticals and there's product types, and everything kind of follows that sequence.
Speaker 3:Got it. So let's walk through an example. Let's say I'm a media buyer right, because a lot of our audience is media buyers. We have a lot of brokers. We can give both examples. Let's say I'm doing very well in roofing, for example. I'm like we're doing very well in roofing right now. We're doing very well in bathroom as well, siding's doing good. So how does let's walk through that? I connect with you guys. And then you're saying you'll connect me directly to, let's say, abc Roofing. Let's say you have $100 million a year, $200 million a year advertised. You'll connect us through them directly. So what's the value? I mean there's big value there, but yeah, let's walk through that, yeah.
Speaker 1:So all those brands like, if you're looking for a very specific brand, you can come inside the platform, find that specific offer. You can filter based off of all right, I'm looking for home services, I'm looking for roofing. All right, I'm generating inbound calls and you'll see what specific advertisers are taking that specific traffic and you can apply for those offers. Everything is transparent in the platform. We tell you what payouts are, epcs are. We show you exactly what average bids are. You know we're transparent in what our rev share rates are as well. So you know it's not just a blind auction, as far as you know. Just send us calls and we'll bid and you know you'll see low bid averages. You know everything will be fully transparent for you.
Speaker 3:So what makes you guys different? And first of all, they've been very successful. They hit 33, and congratulations on that. I appreciate that. 33 on Inc 5000 list of fast and growing companies in America that's a massive. Top 1% yeah a round of applause.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:That's a massive number. I mean our company. I think the best we did was 187 or 150 a couple years back, man, so I know that must have been a great feeling, obviously, yeah. So you guys I'm saying that because you guys are have to be creating value and doing something right to hit that number. It's not, it's not easy to do that. I think only like one percent of people make it, make it to that list right, and it's not like a bullshit list. You have to provide, like tax, information. I've done it. I've done it four times, uh, the last four years or whatever. So I know what that's like. So congratulations for that, first of all.
Speaker 3:But you, you guys are we'll talk more about that later but you guys are legitimate. You guys are real We'll talk more about that later, but you guys are legitimate. You guys are credible. I'll give you my stamp of approval. We've done business with you guys. So, aside from that, what makes you different than, let's say, another network? Because there's a lot of networks and there's all these people you can go to. So what makes you different than all those other people out there?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So when you think about most networks, you're usually joining curated offers, so they're offers that exist, that other advertisers are just plugging into, and you also will get into situations where you'll see a lot of churn in some of those campaigns and it only takes one okay, it takes one person to ruin a campaign for an advertiser. So, like, what we've created is a lot of transparency inside of our platform. So what you're going to provide as a publisher is going to be seen directly by the advertiser. They're going to be able to approve it, know who you are, know exactly where the media is originating.
Speaker 1:And what usually happens is like when we built our software, we built it to solve a lot of different problems for the business. One of the biggest problems was how long we were able to retain an advertiser and we were looking at our 90-day retention and we were seeing almost over 70% was falling off after 90 days because of kind of poor management, not a lot of transparency, bad expectations, and this is where we kind of built the system to be able to solve those issues. Now our 90-day retention is over 90% Because of that transparency, the visibility, knowing exactly where things are at and if something is not where it needs to be. Instead of cutting the whole campaign, they cut what's not working, and that allows for a lot longer sustainability. And then all the bids are direct. So when you're working with us, you don't have to worry about other people being on the other side of the equation that are eating into the margin as well. All of our advertisers are direct.
Speaker 1:And then when you think about our publisher network, we're looking for publishers that are originating and have control of the consumer journey from start to finish, and this allows for congruent transparency, because if you start sending traffic and the traffic isn't up to par or the expectations aren't properly set up front, what's ultimately going to happen is they're going to hear that in the first few calls that they take anyway, like the creatives, don't line up with what the consumers are saying on the phone, and what's going to happen is going to get cut.
Speaker 1:But the best success comes from the transparency. Let them know what it is. When you let advertisers know what it is now, they have an expectation of how to handle that. When you let advertisers know what it is now, they have an expectation of how to handle that, and then they're not as reactive and, you know, upset or frustrated if things aren't where they're supposed to be. So I would say that's a very big aspect of what makes us unique and different is the transparency that we provide on both sides and the understanding that there's sustainability to be had.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that. It's funny. I was just on a. Two hours ago I was on a call with a media buyer. Who's just fucking great. A paper call for medicare, right, and I'm on, we're on with the advertiser. I've known these guys all of them for a long time, right, yeah, and they were saying same thing you're saying. So it comes out transparency, just make sure they that that ad matches what their call center's getting. So listen, there's stuff you can run aggressive with. We know where place that. There's stuff that you have to be squeaky clean, but if you don't give us a bait and switch, we're all fucked here, right? So that's really what it comes down to, and I tell the audience you got to be transparent. You got to let your buyers know what the hell you're running.
Speaker 1:Don't play these games because it's short term.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you might get away spreads fast in our industry, like you know right.
Speaker 1:And I promise you more people are willing to play ball if they know what it is than if you do that bait-and-switch tactic. You know it's just it's not ideal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I saw somewhere you guys and this might be an outdated number, it probably might be higher now, but it probably might be higher now but you're paying off like half a million dollars, like is it 500,000 a week to your publishers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a little bit more than that now. Wow, yeah, there's a lot of earnings to be had in the platform, and, you guys, this is where the biggest opportunity lies because, like now, because of the less friction that we've created, there's a lot of distribution available. The budgets that we have access to now are way larger. A lot of distribution available. The budgets that we have access to now are way larger, and with that, we have the ability to work on volume instead of margins, and this is where you make more money ultimately as well, so I do expect that number to double. As far as what we're going to be paying out on a weekly basis, I want you guys to take as much money as you buy as possibly can from the platform, because it's there to be taken.
Speaker 3:If there was a pie chart. How would you break it down? Let's say the number is 700,000 a week, whatever. What's the highest, what are the top three verticals and what's like one that's growing, that's coming out of nowhere?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so top three ACA is still booming for us.
Speaker 3:Well, that's surprising considering all the stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So ACA is still booming for us. We're seeing a lot of success there. Still A lot of the advertisers that have made pivots in the ACA space is due to a lot of regulatory changes that are going to be coming to the space, but a lot of them just can't sustain the operation anymore.
Speaker 3:That's hard, right, You've got to bankroll. A lot of them just can't sustain the operation anymore. You know it's hard. Are you going to bankroll a lot of money?
Speaker 1:No, it's the persistency Like when you think about. Like. We started off in the insurance space. I know what these contracts look like, I know what chargebacks feel like, I know what all that stuff is. So when these call centers are buying all of this traffic and then their 30 day persistency goes from being almost 90 percent to being averaging around 70 percent, they can't sustain that business model the same anymore and most of them have just made the decision, like you know, it's not worth to run it anymore and they just get out. But the true clean shops.
Speaker 1:Yeah they're still pumping, they're still writing business. I think it's going to be around here for a long time. I think the customer service aspect is going to change as far as how they retain the business. I think it's going to be around here for a long time. I think the customer service aspect is going to change as far as how they retain the business. But ACA would be a big one, and then I would say MVA would be another big one. So motor vehicle accidents is still big and then the third biggest would probably be debt settlement. Debt is still booming. Debt is booming.
Speaker 1:I think there's a huge need there now is more so, creating new alignment on debt, because most of the consumers that are coming through unfortunately don't hit most of the the debt targets that a lot of these rooms are looking for. Um, what's the 15k they're looking for now? Yeah, most of them are looking for over 20. Wow. But you think about, like, when you look at the actual ratios as far as what that really blends out to be, they're filtering out probably 50, 60 percent of that traffic that's coming through trying to hit those debt lows. What do they do with that traffic?
Speaker 1:It goes on monetize. So we're coaching advertisers now on. Hey, here's a market you can play in. That's nobody's wanting to monetize these leads you can play in. That's nobody's wanting to monetize these leads. Give us another outlet to be able to monetize these and you guys just work on lower debt lows and do more volume and your conversion ratio would be better. Now you'll be able to have a much better customer experience. You know, of course the commissions aren't as high, but we could definitely work on hitting lower CPA targets to make sure that you know everybody's in line with what they're looking for.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's interesting. I'm not shocked because I know you have a real strong insurance background, right, but I hear so many people crying and struggling with ACA. But that creates opportunity for you guys because it washes them out and you have the solution which you guys, you've been in it for so long.
Speaker 1:You're able to survive and not just survive you're able to rush them out and you have the solution which I mean you guys, you've been in it for so long, you're able to survive, not just survive, you're able to thrive. Yeah, most people that are running ACA are doing mostly social traffic, right Like we have our G2s, so we're running heavy on Google. That's a big outlet for us and that's something that you'll see like a lot of the media buyers, especially like the bigger ones, now they're getting their insurance license just so they can start tapping into that google market because the effectuation rates are so much better. So like they're seeing better, stronger persistency on that business is good. Um, it's not as saturated and there's a lot of intent-based traffic that's coming from there too. So I see, like most people that are having issue running heavy social and they're doing a lot of kind of back-end automations trying to re-engage those consumers, but the records just get so saturated and the consumer pool is just so saturated, which causes a lot of problems yeah, I would imagine.
Speaker 3:I mean, it seems like these people they probably got. So it reminds me like solar in new jersey, everyone the mothers got seen a solar ad gotten called. Yeah, it's just crazy, right, so they just keep keeping serve the same ads and this and that. So, yeah, well, congratulations on making that work. Yeah, so let's. Uh, I want to go into the, the whole thing about, um, the, the ink and the growth. Right, because, man, everyone, I've known you guys for a long time. Man, it's great to see the, the growth and the trajectory. But behind all that, I mean, what were some of the challenges? As you go, as you scale, like it's like scaling an ad campaign yeah, you could, you, it's easy. Not, it's not easy, but sometimes it's easier to run a business with just fucking three, four or five people and then, when you have you start scaling to dozens, hundreds of people, right, so that I, I saw that with our growth, right, and then we have to take a step back because we grew so fast.
Speaker 1:I mean yes, what were?
Speaker 1:your, what were your challenges and the biggest ones were support yeah, being able to support everybody. You know, getting back to Jack's fast enough, you know that's why we're so focused on making so much of our product self-service, because we don't want people to be so dependent on having a conversation with somebody to get something going. So that was a big growing pain. Was the support side, just kind of having more resources there to kind of interact, help people on a day-to-day basis, like just faster communication. Uh, the next thing was probably terms. You know being able to float terms, manage cash flow, like that's huge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's talk about that because people forget about that shit. Yeah, especially with these big advertisers, they're fucking monthly net 30. I got another one yesterday, fucking. You had to switch me to net 60. I'm like this motherfucker man, you know, but it is what it is. You want to play in the big leagues that you almost have no choice sometimes, man, yeah, I mean floating terms.
Speaker 1:It does get crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it gets crazy real quick, um, but I've kind of I've looked at terms a little bit differently because the net, like people are usually focused on the net aspect of whatever the term is, but what matters more so is the frequency.
Speaker 1:So, like you'll usually hear, like weekly net seven, weekly net 30, monthly net 30. Like the first thing tells you what the frequency is and then the next number tells you how long you have to wait. So if someone's looking for, like super long net terms, I'm usually negotiating faster frequencies and that allows for us to be able to recoup some cash a little bit faster, before we start to be able to be in a cash deficit situation where we're not able to float terms, or even if they are late by you know, a couple days, we can't sustain it. So it's kind of figuring that aspect out. And then, of course, like ensuring our advertisers have been invaluable, yeah, um, you know, everybody that wants to be on terms has to put a credit up on file. You know they have to give us credit card authorization as well. Um, and there's just, you got three days. That's the max, that's huge.
Speaker 3:And you know what I I who was on we interviewed, uh, allianz. I don't know if you use allianz, who you use, but man, uh, adam young told me about allianz fucking october 2022. I didn't do anything with it got burned. We got probably burned 200 250 000 during that period of time. We finally signed up with insurance, maybe aug or July of last year. Bro, it's been great for us. I mean, we got stiffed by three people. Nothing massive, we had like 30 grand, but it was good to collect. On that. We collected like 90%. So I can't emphasize that enough. A lot of people don't even know that exists. I didn't know that exists until Adam Young told me about it.
Speaker 1:No, oh, six years in the industry it's invaluable, yeah. And at least be able to get a credit profile on these advertisers, like, get something. You know you should be able to get some type of model of these businesses, especially if they've been around for a long time. It'll give a lot of validation to it and, you know, the advertisers actually feel reassured knowing that, hey, they actually have a process to make sure that everything is good. They obviously do this a lot. So, you know, it does kind of standardize the processes a lot for those advertisers, especially the ones that are really struggling with that. I mean, really like I think a few years ago the most we got burned for was like what? $2 million.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, I had no idea, and that's what we rolled off. Was that Health IQ? No?
Speaker 1:that was over the course of a whole year. So over the course of the whole year we probably rolled off almost $2 million worth of business that just wasn't able to get collected. And honestly, this is kind of where, like growing to, that's another big growing pain. You know, it's just not being able to kind of keep up with the pace of production as well as making sure that your collections is in line. Like Rita and I have just been burning the cash just making sure that we keep our reputation clean, make sure everybody gets paid. But you know it does eat in ultimately to the profitability of a company if you're not collecting on everything that you could collect on. But it's a big problem, it's definitely a big problem. And these advertisers out here, some of them like, if they've been in business for less than a year, I typically wouldn't give them terms yeah, 100% Like just don't do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's why we have experts, veterans, on the show, because that's look at the collapse timeframes and learn from our mistakes, right, whatever I lost, you lost. You still talked about $2 million. I mean, that's, it's going to happen. I think it's almost like if you haven't been burned, you haven't been doing business long enough, it's going to happen. Try to minimize that and learn from this stuff, because, man, if I had listened to Adam back then, that would have saved me a few hundred thousand easily, right, and if you hadn't known about it, you probably would have done it too. And then the people that aren't insurable we just don't do business got to freaking prepay you're prepaying all day long and then it saved their asses a few times and some of these advertisers are happy to prepay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, more happy to prepay than you think you got to ask?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, you just got to ask the numbers game?
Speaker 1:you know it's not. Don't turn away the business. If terms is a requirement, you know, apply for terms and get approved. Let's do it yeah that's huge.
Speaker 3:I want to talk about the tech side of it, but before we we do that, I think it's something we I don't know if I've ever told you this, but I feel like you got your ears to the ground. You pick up things, man. I don't know you ever watch Game of Thrones. There was this guy. I love Game of Thrones. This was before technology, this was like the 1500s. This guy he would hear whispers Like this guy can hear whispers like a thousand miles away.
Speaker 3:So people don't want to talk, they're like this motherfucker's going to hear, right? But I feel like you're kind of similar. You'll come up with, you'll find like a new vertical out of nowhere. Like you hit me up with one like a month which is on me. I gotta get this going with you. But yeah, out of nowhere, like you, you've. You've like two or three times man, you come up with shit like what the fuck? And then like three months later it blows up man, what, what do you attribute that?
Speaker 1:to man paying attention, having conversations. I still take calls. You know a lot of these guys that are running these bigger businesses. Yeah, they think they're too good to take calls. I get on on the phone, it's true, and I have conversations. I talk to pubs, I talk to advertisers. I see what's going on where the demand is at, like we're, we're really, we're really out there, I'm working still. Like there's a joke where, when you had EDM, you're on the plantation, like you're on the plantation, you're working, you know, and you know, el Presidente over there, that's who we got to answer to no, listen, I agree, and I think that that gives you an edge, right, and that's just leads into the next thing with the sass and all this stuff.
Speaker 3:It's all about having an edge in the game, right, and it's giving me I try. People like why you fucking travel somebody listen every time I travel, I and it might not happen right away. Yeah, we, I was talking about budap. Affiliate World was one of these shows in Budapest where there wasn't much juice out of that. But then, fucking, in January, someone I met, we got something going with bathroom and now we're doing great, we're putting up six figures a month in bathroom. We're about to do multi, six figures a month, right, and you just never know A lot of these shows, and it's not always the first exposure, it might be a second or third exposure. Meet somebody and then bam, I think that happened with us too. We had our first. We met during COVID, right. We had dinner or lunch somewhere in Florida I think Orlando, and it took a few times, right, and we keep seeing each other and then we started doing business. Then we started doing some good business.
Speaker 1:But it's about being out there listening and having a team that brings shit back to you and trying Like last year we traveled 40 weeks, wow, like we went to 40 shows last year and like I do attribute that to a big part of the expansion, keeping our ears to the street, knowing what's going on, because you hear like so much innovation that people are thinking of that. You'll only have that conversation just out of getting drinks, kind of a little fucked up, just talking to them a little bit, and then you know some of y'all get a little loose and then this is where we start having the discussions, learning everything, and this is where we can kind of really dig deeper to know, kind of like, what's really going on 100.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and not even speaking of that, there's an art to doing that stuff to drink and listening, it being out late, right, I've got so many deals, like at the cosmo, las vegas, or got some information that could help me, like, figure something out, right, and again it doesn't. Sometimes it takes like a year or two for that to materialize. Yeah, but yeah, it's about, and what I do is I go to shows, I put everything in my notepad and then I go back to I review it later, man, because it's amazing you could forget so much stuff. That goes on.
Speaker 1:Well, let me give you the super game of how to work a show. Okay, and the game of what you should do when you're at a show is art. You meet somebody none of the business cards. Don't give me your card. Give me your phone number. I text you, come here, we take a picture together. I send that in the text. Now, when I hit you back, you have a point of reference as far as who I am and who you talk to. So it's not a surprise, because sometimes you just get the information and you hit them back. I don't remember what we talked about and it's a big problem. So just kind of that picture can really allow you to recollect as far as who you saw, what y'all were talking about, maybe, and then it'll also help you book those follow-ups and make sure you get in front of the right people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I've been doing a lot more of that. Ed has been doing that like crazy. It's funny. I know it's a real opportunity when I see him at a show doing he's doing them selfies, man.
Speaker 1:It's hilarious, yeah, no, ed's a hustler.
Speaker 3:I love Ed. Yeah, ed's do edges right and I feel like, more than ever, people in our industry in the lead gen space. There's a lot. Everything's getting compressed right, Margin's getting compressed. It's becoming more expensive to generate a lead. Everyone's feeling it. Economy is the way it is. Everyone's trying to cut costs right. So you really got to have a freaking edge now, more so than ever. You agree with that 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something you're doing is creative and unique, but that's also why the transparency is so important, because without that transparency like some people may not be willing to take that risk with you. You know what I'm saying. So, like figuring out what that edge is, being transparent about it, and I like to move fast and break things. Personally, that's my style with everything just move fast and break things. That's kind of how Rita and I have done everything Move as fast as possible. We're going to break some stuff, but we're going to figure it out along the way and just perfect it, yeah.
Speaker 3:I love that. So, speaking of edges, right, you guys are doing a lot of shifting. You're still doing a lot of lead gen. You're paying out more high six figures to publishers every week. You're creating value there. Let's talk about the SaaS products. What are they exactly? What's the value they're creating? You talked about it briefly earlier, but let's dive deeper into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like first part, like the core business of EDM, for example, so that's now been productized and turned into a platform so it serves both advertisers, publishers. And then we also create a white label of our platform where we created like a hosted network for other people that want to utilize all the infrastructure that we've already built. So it's kind of multifaceted in that regard on the EDM side and people monetize with us. Either as a publisher, you can come in there and just simply sell all the media that you're already originating. Publisher, you can come in there and just simply sell all the media that you're already originating. Or if you're looking for a new vertical or a new product, like we'll have all that stuff there on your publisher side. And then on the advertiser side, this is where we host our exchange. So advertisers that want to buy media we support both retail users, enterprise users. They can come in there kind of choose what type of media they want, based off industry, vertical, product types, see all the creatives go through the whole catalog, select what they want, eliminate what they don't, set their bids, all that stuff from the platform in our exchange and then we have our marketplace. That is the place where publishers that have aged inventory that they want to monetize and sell with us. It gets hosted in our marketplace. Advertisers also come into that marketplace, buy those age records for whatever industry, vertical and product type and then they check out. It's all self-service, immediate delivery.
Speaker 1:And then we have our custom offers where we host offers for advertisers. So advertisers that are looking for like, a vendor management software, they use us for that. If they're looking for a hosted offer software, they use us for that. If they're looking for a hosted offer network, they use us for that. If they're looking for a call routing system, they use us for that. So that's kind of where our custom offers are used for specifically. And then on the other side is where we have our BPO side of the business, which is our EDM Global Solutions product. So this is designed for freelancers. If you're doing sales and marketing, customer service, administrative support or any type of engineering work, you can come on there, host your talent there and we have recruiters that are looking for talent and they're directly coming in there to be able to source those resources that they're looking for to help grow their business directly at cost, very nominal service fee, through that platform.
Speaker 1:And then our last SaaS product is where we have our whitelist data ecosystem. So this is where we provide a lot of like contact center suppression software. So they use us for, like all their DNC and litigation suppression. They also use us to host their custom data sets. If they're trying to manage duplicate suppressions. They can use us for that as well, as well as data enrichment through API or single lookups. We do that as well, as well as our new identity resolution pixels that are available for media buyers that want to be able to identify those raw visitors that come to their sites that don't convert. We have mechanisms for them to be able to visualize those consumers. And all of our products are consumption-based. So you know, no subscriptions, none of that type of stuff, just use it and make money.
Speaker 3:That's amazing, I didn't realize how in-depth they got. Man, I know you were talking to me a while back about how you're developing this again. Hats off to you, yeah, and what kind of spurred this aha moment to to shift this way or try to dive, is it? I know when you, I feel like you, you and really like you, obsess over these things, you want to like create the much value is positive, you get that edge, see ahead of curve, yeah, so like, when you think about, like what we build up until now, it's everything we wish we would have had when we were getting started.
Speaker 1:Like everything now that we're creating is what I wish I would have had when I was getting started, and just how simple we could have made it to, you know, just allow everybody to be able to eat and participate like it's really hard out here to be able to, you know, sit here and tell you like, oh yeah, we just been thinking about this forever. But it's like we have been thinking about this for a long time but we've been filling in the gaps of everything we wish we would have had and when we needed it. You know, that's kind of been the biggest thing for us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and again, I think it comes down to also evolution, right. How the hell are you going to grow as a company, grow as a person? You want to be static. Things are moving so fast in our society with AI and technology that, man if you're still I was talking to someone earlier a lot of people still think I think they still think I'm a call center expert man, and I feel like, bro, I'm like an old school guy, like there's so much tech, these call centers and stuff they have to employ the tools you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's the stuff I'm not familiar with, right? So the stuff that worked for you when we first met is not going to work. The stuff that worked six months ago isn't going to work now. Right, there's so much quick-paced stuff going on. We were talking about Samar before doing great stuff with AI. I'm seeing he can do so many ad types real fast with AI that would take you forever to do back in the day. So things are really time's collapsing and if you're not on the train, man, you're going to be left behind 100% and you really kind of need to have as much of your stuff as possible that is unique.
Speaker 1:Like the way I introduced EDM, it's an ecosystem. I don't want it to just be a singular product where you come to us for one specific use case. If you're a business, there's something we can help you with in some capacity, at some level that you need, and you know I just I like to help everybody, but it's more so like whatever I can help you with. I want to make that as easy as possible, whether it's in a self-service capacity or if it's a service that we could also offer that's curated and hosted for what you're looking for specifically, but a lot of people are going to get left behind. Specifically, doing the slimy stuff is one of the.
Speaker 1:I think the slimy stuff is coming to light faster than ever yeah, you know, like all the ai that we've been implementing inside of our business is catching all types of stuff that people are trying to finesse or do different things. Like our system now is able to see if recordings have ever been submitted in our system and who to attribute it to. Wow, so, like now we can see, like you know, you're saying that you're originating this stuff, but this was submitted two years ago by this person. Why are you doing this or what's the situation here? Walk me through it. You know, like we can start to see all of this stuff and you know what's unique and what's not unique, and where people are being honest when they're not. Like I do think we're going to accomplish a whole lot more working together than trying to compete against each other. Yeah, 100 like that's the, that's a big problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, being proactive too is what it comes down to catching things before it turns to a fucking nightmare and whatnot. I can't emphasize that enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the faster you can catch something. I think if you catch something, you're proactive about addressing it. It'll reduce so many issues.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, huge man.
Speaker 1:And it actually will instill trust in whoever it is that you're working with, that you're paying attention.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one issue we had talking about growing pains before we grew so fast we started breaking so much stuff. Like I'm a believer too. Just fucking run, we'll figure this stuff out as we go, right. But man, we started. Man, we'll catch mistakes like a week, two weeks, three weeks and man, it was a big mistake, right. Whereas now we're able, were able to utilize some of this technology to really catch stuff the same day Like it's a lot, because you're going to make mistakes as a business. It is what it is right, but catch them quicker and minimize the damage. That's what it comes down to. And, man, that's been the biggest thing I'm happy about. I used to hate it, ed and I would lose our fucking minds. Three weeks later we catch this thing Like what the fuck? This, instead of being like a $200 issue, it's a $20,000, $50,000, $100,000 issue, like that fucking. That sucks. Man, that hurts it does.
Speaker 1:And those problems they get bigger and bigger and bigger, they get exacerbated and like that's how it adds up to $2 million. Yeah, it's just a lot of those little ones just continuing to add up that you just saying, all right, we'll just move on, keep money. You know, like that can't be the solution to the problem. You got to pay attention. Look at the numbers.
Speaker 3:you know it's a factional feelings operation, yeah, and you got to invest in the right resources. Right, you got to invest in the right resources. Have someone that knows the hell they're doing in charge of the resource, report that stuff to you and catch stuff. You know we have a compliance system. It's not a big compliance, we have a compliance. I want your job is to catch shit. You detect us, find shit, snoop around, figure out what's going on. Try to try to try to figure out, because we don't, we're doing like we're on.
Speaker 3:We got so much momentum going on now I can't afford to fucking go backwards, right, and I think anyone has a company. That's why I think your, your, your solutions are so important for for call centers, for advertisers, for everybody and these advertisers I mean you're talking about these medicare companies, home improvement they're big companies. They're not nine-figure, ten-figure companies, right, yeah, big business. And if they get fucked, you're on the hook for it. I have a client haven't been doing as much business with them, but they just got a $20 million TCPA settlement. Blew my mind away. $20 fucking million. The biggest I heard prior to that was like $2.5 million. So $20 million, man, they out here, man.
Speaker 1:They are out here. They are out here and it's getting worse. This is why none of these advertisers want these transfers 100%.
Speaker 3:yeah, and that sucks. The transfers are fucking the best product out there, Because when you can vet that shit out and send them a good product, it's just all these guys fuck it up right.
Speaker 1:That's the truth. You guys. If you're listening to this, you got to pay attention. Here. David is dropping facts right now.
Speaker 1:I do believe a transfer is a superior product, but the sentiment in the market, you guys just aren't doing what you're supposed to do. You're not. Like. The sad part is is there's a few things everybody cares about How's the data getting originated, how's the data getting dialed or communicated with, and then what is that person saying and doing, like those are the three things everybody really needs to make sure that they vet and confirm. Like if you are doing that, I'm pretty sure people are. Like the market is going to transition.
Speaker 1:Everything is cyclical, you know, like the compliance constrictions that exist on the live transfer side. It's just because those three things aren't really being done that needs to be established for these advertisers to have security. They don't. They don't feel secured by what's getting provided right now and the end of results being a lot of unhappy consumers. People getting dialed hundreds of times, data vendors, vendors saturating files, like all that type of stuff is killing the market. It's completely killing the market. Actually, I had a conversation with a data vendor last week who we completely blacklisted from the company and I told him. I was like look, I can't work with you. Everybody's saying they're working with you and everybody that's working with you I'm having problems with.
Speaker 3:Like those two things, don't like, yeah, those two things. Such a small world, bro, especially the better, more successful you become here you're gonna find everything out.
Speaker 1:You can't fucking I, you're gonna do some bullshit, yeah and you know, when I told he's like it's not me, it's like all right, it's an isolated issue because I look at the attribution at every level, like you're the only common factor that's associated with everything. And this is kind of where it's just like all right, we got to be honest about how this stuff is happening and we got to go through it. We got to make sure we pay attention to the diligence and we just got to hold people accountable. Like the hard part is it's like we're on the hook for the lawsuit 100% we're on the hook. Edm is the one that's putting the identification in place with those advertisers that I'm committing to to give everybody those hosted offers. We got to make sure we do them right by these people because otherwise we're going to fuck ourselves, we're going to fuck them at the same time and it's not going to be good for anybody.
Speaker 3:Yeah and it's a shame because you've done a lot of transfers like good transfers, and then to hear the marketplace there's so many home improvement companies, they won't touch transfers because they've been burned. But if you can somehow win their conference, whether it's home improvement, whatever vertical it is, because I feel like all of them they've all been burned, all these big advertisers, right. But if you can somehow do the right thing, get your foot in the door and bring that value and you stick to your word, then you could that whole market share over is what it comes down to and that's how it is.
Speaker 1:So usually, when we get started, you can get whatever you want to pay for with me. Whatever you want to pay for, you can get. But at the same time, it's like all right, what's going to be the most beneficial for what you're looking for specifically? All right, if you have compliance risk associated with this, we ain't going to talk about that. Although it may be a superior product, like we were talking about earlier, it may not be what's best for your business right now. Let's start here. If this doesn't work to where your expectations are, let me give you what I know is the best, and this is where, like once you build that trust and start instilling that with them, like that's why I'm down here that FaceTime is important, important. People need to see you. That's why going to all these shows matter so much because you're relevant, david. People want to be around you. They see you. It's a familiar face. You know you're not. You're not someone that they don't know. You know it just makes people feel better. They're willing to trust, do things with you.
Speaker 1:Um, I had a meeting earlier today, which is so interesting, but one Like one of our advertisers. I love him to death. He's probably one of the best operators I've met on the ACA side specifically. And you know he's like why are you down here? And I'm like got a lot of people to see and I was like you're a great client but you're not the best client and it was just kind of like you know there's a lot of people out here and you want to spend time with everybody, but everybody needs to get that time and you got to make sure you show your face to the biggest or the smallest client. Make sure that everybody knows that you're here. You care about them, you want them to be successful. You're going to do whatever it takes to make sure that you make it happen. Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 3:It's a relationship business, right. So things aren't going to go perfect. There's going to be some things that go wrong, right. But when you see them, it's like you get like a longer leash. You're like, okay, this guy's good, I've seen him, he's had dinner with me, he's met my family, da da da. Then you're able to get through like whatever tough time because the business and I'd catch up with people at the shows, but doing it not just for the shows, but you're always building the business. Yeah, that's what it comes down to.
Speaker 1:You're always building the business. I do think now your time is more valuable, and the upside and downside of that is you can't give it to everybody, which sucks, but when you do, it means a lot. Yeah, it does mean a lot and, like I, I put a rule in place. I gotta keep calls to 10 minutes. If I can't, let's, let's get it out the way as fast as possible.
Speaker 3:By the way, yeah, let's keep. It's funny, I like you think it'd be a five minute call, 10 minutes, then you look like holy shit, I'm on this bitch for 35 minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, happened to me yesterday but I think it's kind of the pace in which you control that call yeah, like some stuff, that like. We do a lot of product demos as well. Obviously I'm not. I can't take the time to do all the product demos all the time, so usually I'll usually open up, have the conversation, address whatever specific points I have to pass it off to the team, let them go to the the demo, wrap it up. That's how we get the business and we can speed it. You will have so much time knocking out those 10-minute calls back-to-back. Just get those done super quick. A lot of people will really appreciate that too, david. And then you'll also see like it'll just increase the uptick of production because more and more people are going to start getting more stuff done because you're holding them accountable to them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like that advice and that's for anybody, right, and I think also too. Going back to EDM and the solution you provide, we work with our company, works with a lot of media buyers that are like they're not nowhere near America, they're in Eastern Europe. They might be in fucking somewhere in South America and some of them have never been to America, right? So they like to work with companies like us, someone like you, because we have we're putting in that face time. They don't want to manage relationships, they just want to do what they're good at, drive the damn lead. And I feel like and let me know what you think about this, you'll probably agree these guys, they want to dip their toe in managing up. They don't know how to communicate. It's not the right thing. Stay in your lane, do what you're good and partner up with the people that know how to do that shit right 100%.
Speaker 1:Do what you do best, Don't do the rest.
Speaker 2:Do what?
Speaker 1:you do best. Don't do the rest, because it's like all right if you're good at media buying, focus on that Master that craft.
Speaker 1:Go's more of your vibe as far as sales get in the like. Here's the thing. It's like the distribution is so valuable, like people want to get plugged into distribution wherever they can but they just don't know what to do and sometimes pivots have to be made when there may be saturation in a certain market where it's not as like. Some people started reaching out to me a year ago saying they were getting into Medicare. That's not the right time to get into Medicare.
Speaker 1:You're behind the wave, it's too late at this point and it's kind of like all right, you don't know what to focus on. Let's point you in the right areas of what markets are booming right now where there is uncapped distribution and budgets for you to be able to make as much money as you want, and just kind of figuring out where those arbitrage points are, because that's where the biggest difference is going to be made for any media buyer, especially these guys that just don't know what businesses to go after. It'll help them out a lot and just kind of getting plugged in and tapped in with the right people. That's kind of why we built the offer network, like we did for publishers is hey, come in here, choose everything that you're looking for. For every single product type. There's a home for every configuration. Just choose what you want.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure. Do you have any success stories of, maybe on both sides the publisher and advertiser side Like, let's say, prior to working with you they were doing X and then you got them up? Obviously, if you're paying out high six figures in commissions, there's obviously something going on right here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we had a media buyer. Well, he's a media buyer now, but he started off as a call center operator, Ended up shutting down his whole operation, Ended up having some big issues there. He reached out to Rita. Everybody said call his brother Rita for everything. And you know, this is where we started offering our media financing. This is the first time we introduced.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, yeah, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:That sounds interesting. So we introduced a program where you know media buyers would be able to come in. Like I said, we have G2 accounts on Google and that type of stuff. So if you know how to buy media, we have the assets. We'll finance the budgets. We operate on a different ref share structure but we'll finance everything if you can run profitable campaigns and then from there we buy the media back, all of it ourselves. We have the first right of refusal. You can still sell it to external distribution. Ref share still applies for whatever that is. We just route it through the platform. But we built out that media financing program.
Speaker 1:He started off initially on the live transfer side. He was probably doing maybe 10,000 a month when he first started off with us. Once he got into our media financing program he was able to get that up to about 50,000 a month. About a year and a half ago he switched over completely to do his own in-house financing. Now he's doing almost a million dollars a month with us. So he's definitely a big earner and just kind of seeing the growth and progression of what people can start off doing and what they can kind of convert into. You know he figured out the whole business financing game and how he could be able to leverage that to do his own internal financing. So it's a beautiful thing to be able to see people go through that journey, but that was definitely the most positive experience that I've ever personally been able to kind of witness.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's huge, right, and that goes back to what I was saying, or we talked about earlier, about staying in your lane, right, and stay in your lane and you can go from what? 10,000 a month and partner up with the right people while you're in that lane. You go from $10,000, $50,000, $100,000, a million a month in revenue, right, it's just incredible.
Speaker 1:It's more so just knowing how to ask and what to ask, because, like, people reach out and ask for crazy shit all the time, like just give me this, give me this. No, that ain't how this works.
Speaker 1:That's not how this works. When you reach out to Rita and they have a conversation, first thing he's talking to Rita about is value. Hey, I can do this for you. I know how to do this. Let me do this for you. Don't pay me anything. I just want to be able to make a pivot for my business and you know, that's just the impetus to be able to grow and to build something so much bigger. So, yeah, that was a beautiful story.
Speaker 3:That's a great story, man. You made me think a lot here. I met a media buyer in Dubai. Man that years of my first affiliate world ever, guy was doing solar in Europe, wasn't doing anything in America, right, this one solar was like probably the last good year in solar back in 2022. Maybe it was 2020. I don't remember. But man, the guy was doing he wasn't doing huge numbers. I convinced him to go to America. I seen him. We started doing some. We did at least over a million with him over a stretch of time, maybe 2 million, I don't remember. I saw him at a show in probably Legion World in 2023. He came and gave me a big fucking hug. Man, you changed my life. I had no idea.
Speaker 3:The guy was like a dentist or some shit and he hated being a dentist. He got to meet everybody he couldn't figure out. Like this guy was doing over a million a month. He was probably doing 300, 400 000 a month with us at that point, right, and then he got other guys. Like he grew, but seeing that, like the guy always had fucking tears in his eyes and that's the stuff we do as business owners. Like we don't realize the impact. You know, and obviously you guys with these call centers but that's, it's amazing, right, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:That's why we built our, like our white label. So so many people were trying to like hey, how can I work with EDM? Or they were just trying to buy from us, but we don't sell If you're not a direct consumer. That's going to be converting that. So we had to find a path for them and this is where the whole white label came into play, because it's like all right, any distribution is valuable and you may know somebody that I don't know and there's value there. And it's like all right, I'll give a 50% of what I would make on this to be able to build a relationship and capture distribution I wouldn't normally have. And this is kind of where we can create these new paths and new lanes.
Speaker 1:This is another crazy story. So we had a single mom that joined us and she reached out to me on Facebook and she was like hey, I see your program and what you guys are doing. I can't afford it. And okay, you know sorry, but you know can't afford it. There's not really a lot we can do for you. And you know, she just kind of she's persistent. She kept following up, which we appreciate.
Speaker 3:I love that. I love that, I love that. I'm a sucker for that shit.
Speaker 1:Somebody that just won't stop, just got a gnat that she just can't slap off. But she just kept following up, kept following up. And I will tell you I was like, look, obviously can't do the same rough share structure. Things got to change. We got to do something a little bit different and unique here. We obviously can't do the same rough share structure. Things got to change. We got to do something a little bit different and unique here. We put a deal together. She didn't white label the system, she kept it under our brand and she wanted to represent us. And she just went out and started prospecting. And she prospected so ferociously I have never had a busier week in my life and I told her I was like I'll run your first appointments with you myself. And I told her I was like I'll run your first appointments with you myself.
Speaker 3:I regretted that because she booked so many appointments. But what?
Speaker 1:was this for? What was it? What vertical or what was the? She was going after everything, but she was focusing in the insurance industry. Okay, so she was going after auto insurance, aca, private health, final expense. She was going after everything, but she and here's what I told her I was like like all right, if you do exactly what I say for 30 days with no deviation, I promise you'll be successful.
Speaker 1:And those type of people that have genuinely listened and gone through the process of doing exactly what I say for 30 days with no deviation, made the calls, had the conversations, booked the meetings it's just a byproduct like everybody should be thinking about. How do you turn your business into an equation? Yeah, whatever number you're looking to get to. How do you reverse, engineer that, turn it into an equation and figure out what variables are required for activity to get you to that number? And that will solve every issue that you have in your world right now in terms of how do you be able to get to that next level or hit the number that you're looking to achieve yeah, that's what you said right there, and if I was someone listening, I'd rewind that part that.
Speaker 3:That was huge rewind. Is that even a thing nowadays, man? I'm fucking old.
Speaker 3:My birthday's tomorrow, by the way I've been doing a lot of thinking birthday. Yeah, thank you, but anyway. But the point is it's so freaking, true, man. It's like it's like in life what you ask for, right, you get what you think about all day long, right? There's another guy I know you're following School of Hard Knocks. He's been in Scottsdale. He'll talk to these guys.
Speaker 3:Some guys are worth billions, some guys are worth a few million. It's like the gamut of successful business people. But the people that got the billions they just reverse, engineered bigger opportunities. Is what it comes down to, right, and I think that's what it comes down to. What you guys are doing. You're trying to create this field for people that they can make millions doing. They can make tens of millions, hundreds of millions. They can do whatever it takes right, whatever and that's beautiful to hear, because I love that stuff. Yeah, it's possible, and sometimes people forget the simple things. Just reverse fucking number you want to hit, hit that number, then do a bigger number but people are so scared of the phones they they are, I know, especially the younger generation the phones, which is great yeah, honestly like that's a deal breaker for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a deal breaker. Like you, scared of the phones, this ain't gonna work.
Speaker 1:100 and I'm a big like. I believe a lot in just pushing people in the water. Yeah, like, all right, you don't know how to say everything. Your only initiative is this only focus and solve for everything. To focus on this specific action. Keep it simple, keep it stupid simple, yeah, and then if you don't know something, just say, hey, that's for the next call. I just need to be go ahead and book a meeting or whatever the action is and, like when you break it down like that, figure out what those activity variables are that lead to the output, because you don't know how to do everything and you don't know everything. It's accepting that and doing what you can do. That's going to allow you to be able to reverse engineer exactly what it is that you're looking to accomplish ultimately, anyway, yeah, this has been great, man.
Speaker 3:I know we're going a little bit over, but I want to ask you this question because it's more of a personal question. I was doing some research, obviously, before you came on, and I didn't know this about you. I didn't know that dad passed away at five years old. Is that right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, my birth father died when I was young, yeah, man, and to think of like, and I think that there's life insurance and all that kind of like. Do you think that? Obviously, listen, I was 40, whatever. That hit me hard, man, but how do you think that impacted you as a business person? I could imagine like you probably have to take on like a lot of responsibility, right, like a lot of pressure. Do you think that like helped you later on develop your business acumen?
Speaker 1:Well, let me tell you this. So when my birth father died, I was about five, actually it was. He died 10 days before my birthday, and what's crazy is, you know, it's not the fact that he passed away. I love him. I hope he rests in peace. But a couple years later, my mother ended up getting remarried and my stepfather is who I see as my father. I call him my dad and he's the entrepreneur and he's the one that had a bunch of businesses. I've been working since I was seven. Wow. So he put us into restaurants. I used to leave elementary school, go peel shrimp in the kitchen, like that was my life growing up, and so for me there wasn't a lot of relatability in school with other people because I was working. Like this is the expectation was this in arizona?
Speaker 1:where was this? No, this was. This was in Colorado. Okay, so started working out in Colorado they actually call it CPS with my parents, because you know they tried to say that they were working us too hard, or some crazy stuff, but yeah, it was my stepdad ultimately who I call my father that really kind of instilled that entrepreneurial spirit. He was just a hustler. He didn't go anywhere have conversations, make stuff happen with people. You know, I always admired that about him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's awesome. I like to know. Success leaves clues, right, and obviously you have these people that are just. They shape who you are right. For me it was. My aunt was the one who did it. It came first. One came from Venezuela. I actually went to college and just pushed me to do, to do better, right, and I think this is amazing the the marks we leave on people, and I love that.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think about my kids. How the fuck am I going to instill that work ethic into them? You know it's, it's, it's crazy. I talked to Manny Zuccarelli about that too, because he's I think he took his son to Japan, had a great time, and you know we're all. When you're an entrepreneur, you're a hustler. You know it's like it's hard for people to relate to that, the ups and the downs. You know, one day you got all this fucking money and like you get far, like what, like what's going on, right, it's crazy. So I think that's amazing and I try to think how am I going to instill that in my kids? Right, because my son's six right now. How am I getting him doing? My daughter seems to have some of that in her, which is good, so I don't know any advice on that it's just hustling man.
Speaker 1:Honestly, this is one of the biggest things that I really admire about reading and spending time with him. It's like he puts that time in with his youngest Jed so much where he is the business. He knows how to pick up the phone. He's not scared to talk to somebody. That's awesome. He'll look you in the eyes when he shakes your hand.
Speaker 1:I think it's just leading by example and letting them be around you more, and for me I know this is a hard thing because, like I don't like clutter in my space, I don't like people running around, but like the best thing that I think any parent could do for their kid is let them be around their environment and learning how to interact with other people and what responsibilities, what traumas look like. Like one of the things that I talked to my dad about, because he really wanted me to take over his businesses. That was a big thing for him, but I had a vision for something bigger and one of the big things that I told him was a negative was he wasn't very transparent. He didn't let me see what was painful, some of those things that he really struggled with. Like a different perspective on a situation is invaluable and the kids are smarter than you think.
Speaker 1:These kids now are they're on a whole another level. They're super smart and you ask them their opinions, they may look at it from a completely different perspective give you a whole nother angle that I think could allow you to execute on things that are whole like so much faster. I think it'd be great that was awesome.
Speaker 3:Great feedback there. I know we dove into a lot. Was there anything we missed? Anything you want to touch upon?
Speaker 1:No, you guys check us out, reach out, let us know. If you have any questions at all, we're happy to help anybody. You know I really appreciate your time, David. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3:I appreciate you being on. We're going to put a link here so you so you could join the network or learn more about it. These guys are great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll drop everything for you guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure. And listen, we'll put a link to Jamal's profile, everything as well. You've been really great Again. There's been stuff where we were like a weird situation you have your ears to the ground. You've been doing this a long time, a lot of good business, acumen, so it's all about the people. You know to do the right thing by them, to do the right thing by you, and you've just been a giver man and we appreciate that in a big way. Man, glad to have you on the show. Let's fucking go, guys, let's roll.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys.
Speaker 3:Good shit, man. Thank you, that was awesome.