Episode 21 - The Medical Matchmaker

Join this amazing podcast and listen to Dr. Lara Hochman share her tools and great ideas to help physicians find the perfect job.

Connect with Dr. Hochman here:

Website: www.happydayhealth.co (not .com)

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larahochman/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@medicalmatchmaker

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@happydaymd

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/happydaymd/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/HappyDayMD1

Email course (free): https://medicalmatchmaker.carrd.co/ 

Transcript

0:08

Welcome to the PurposefulMD Podcast. As a physician, you've sacrificed so much of your life for other people. Your patients, your family, your friends, and your colleagues. What would it feel like to spend time doing what you enjoy, and to live without guilt? I'm your host, Dr. Laura Suttin, a family physician, certified coach and business owner. If you're a medical professional on a journey towards your most purposeful life, a life with more time and energy, and ultimately more joy, then this is the podcast for you. Welcome to the purposeful MD podcast. I'm really excited for our guest today, Dr. Lara Hockman. Dr. Hockman is a family medicine physician and the medical matchmaker. I can't wait to hear more about that. She's an advocate for fellow physicians will be amidst rising burnout and dissatisfaction. Her own experiences led her to discover the ways that physicians lost autonomy and how to reclaim their focus on helping patients can't love that anymore. She founded happy day health, a boutique physician matchmaking agency to match well run private practices with physicians who are interested in avoiding burnout and who enjoy practicing medicine. Dr. Hockman, thank you for being here. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Tell us your story. Tell us how you got to where you are right now. Um, okay. My story. Gosh. So I was in private practice, um, previously, and I enjoyed it. I love the medicine side of things, but you know, all the admin and all the, this is even before, A lot of the changes happened, but even then I was burned out, miserable. Um, the hospital, the big hospital in town bought my, the private practice I was in. Um, and at that point still, I was like, eh, I don't know if I want to join, but I'll look into it. So I started speaking to the hospital and they absolutely did not negotiate. So I was willing, you know, I didn't want to give up my patients, um, but their non compete was, um, Outrageous. We're going to have to move out of town. If I ever left them, they, um, you know, they had an intellectual property clause that was really bad at the time. I, um, and I still do, um, run a addiction recovery program, you know, that's all online with my husband and their intellectual property clause just handed over. My business to them. So there was absolutely no way I was going to sign that and they wouldn't negotiate. So I left thinking I had left medicine forever. I was like, Oh my gosh, whatever I can do without medicine. I'm burned out. I don't like medicine anyway. Um, and I see this. You know, the way I was thinking, I see this in so many people now and what I do. Um, and in that time off, I had kind of thought, what am I going to do to help people? Um, there was a lot of, uh, you know, I, I didn't have the confidence then I would think, well, if I, you know, teach doctors to negotiate, or if I teach doctors to stand up for themselves, but no one's going to listen to little old me. Um, or I thought maybe I'll lobby or whatever. Um, Never really came up with a solution at that time. Um, and then fell into a job that I loved as a physician. I loved working as a physician without all the bureaucracy and admin and paperwork and all of that. Um, and then recruited physicians to join the company that I was in. And then where it started spreading that I helped doctors find awesome jobs and. And friends were calling me to say, Hey, you know, I, uh, I have this practice. Can you help me find a doctor? And I put hours and hours and hours and hours into finding them to be people. And the doctors were happier. And then it was my husband who said this, you know, you love doing this. You're changing people's lives, turn into a business. Okay. And so I did and it's been awesome. And, um, you know, I'm so different from I was back when I was like, no, no one ever really wants to hear my ideas. And, um, you know, now I'm like, yeah, my ideas are awesome. Yeah. So that's where I am now. And, um, that's how I started the business. It just kind of, happened. That is so cool that you, you kind of fell into it. Like you started doing it and then turned it into a business because you were so good at it. Yeah. And you know, there were so many, you know, we're all in the Facebook groups where we see private practices struggling to find people and, and doctors who are just miserable in their jobs. So it almost seems like a, No brainer. Well, gosh, why don't we just put those together and we can keep doctors in medicine, enjoying medicine with people they like, who listen to them, who give them autonomy and flexibility and all these things and help these private practices who need doctors to find doctors. Yeah. I, I love all of that so much. It is so just amazing what you were able to do. I mean, in your email to me, as we were preparing for this, you, you, you said, I saw a problem, had a solution and implemented the solution. Like that's the simplest, not easy, but simple is that you saw the gap and you filled it and you're doing really well at it and providing a service that is so needed. I've not, it's one of these things when I saw what you did, I was like, that is so brilliant. I wish I had thought of that. Do you know? It's so, like I said, simple, not easy for you, but just a great way to help the practices that are looking for good positions. And then the good positions that are looking for not just a job, but a job where they're going to thrive. Yeah. A place to settle down and. Enjoy being at every day rather than feel like you're hitting your head against a big wall. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you, I mean, you, cause you work with practices, right. And then you work with physicians. So tell us a little bit about how that works. I imagine there's some vetting involved for you, right? Like if there's a practice that you wouldn't vouch for, then you're not going to work with them or tell, tell us just kind of the, the inner workings of that. Yeah, I'll get to know the practices before I work with them. Um, because I really want to feel like it's a good place for a doctor to be. Um, I want to know that they're going to be financially able to support a physician and they're not going to close down or sell to a hospital system anytime soon. Um, and I really want to know that their people care. Um, so, you know, when I'm getting to know the practice, if I get the feeling that like, they don't, They just want to bum in a seat. They don't care about their doctors. You know, it's my way or the highway. I'm probably not going to take them on as a practice. Um, cause at the end of the day, I want to go to sleep and I want to feel good about it. And this is actually what I was chatting with my assistant this morning about is, you know, there's a practice that wants me to help them. Like I just, Don't want to, I think I'm just gonna not, um, and you and I were talking earlier today, um, just before we started recording, there's a hospital system. I may take on, which is craziness. I never thought that would happen because I haven't wanted to work with hospitals until now. But you know, this hospital system called me a small little critical access hospital who really puts a lot of work into culture and, uh, and making sure that people are happy and their doctors have been They're for forever and ever and ever, but are, you know, when they're late seventies and retiring. So, um, you know, it's important to me, I wanna go to sleep at night. I wanna be happy when I go to sleep. I want to know that I've put doctors somewhere that they really are gonna enjoy working and, um, the only reason they would leave is because they're moving cities or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds super important and just really aligns with, with, with you and what kind of business you wanna create and, and just what. what type of environments you want to help physicians to thrive in. How long have you had your business now? How long have you been doing this? Um, this is my third year. Okay. Three years now. Yeah. So as you were going into it and starting it, I mean the, we know the great resignation and we'd see a lot of physicians at least. So I just left a large health system a few months ago and it just, it seemed like there were so many, almost like a shell game, right? You have physicians going from one system to the other and, and so you probably saw a lot of that, right? Some massive shifts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, big shifts. I think, you know, some were very thoughtful and, and, you know, what am I getting away from and how do I get away from it? And some are just, you know, from one into something else that's exactly the same. So, um, you know, hopefully I can make a difference, you know, even just what I do, but even just in the posts I make on social media, like, Hey, You know, today, I think I posted like, what are your actual values and what are you doing to live those? Yeah, I, I, I really admire that and I love that because I am following you on social media and we'll put links to your, to where you're in LinkedIn and Facebook and everywhere people can find you. I really appreciate your posts that is, they're just very much about, you know, what's important to you as a physician. Hey, let's not forget that. I mean, as you, as we've talked about, you're all about. Finding your autonomy and thriving in your practice. And, and so I think a lot of times as physicians, we just tend to forget that we tend to kind of just go with the flow and we're in this environment for so long. And we just have to. Yeah, maybe I, maybe I do have a value that isn't an alignment with where I'm at or maybe, maybe there's something over here that might align with me differently or fit better, if it's my personality or my family or what I'm looking for. but there's something that. That stops us. And so you probably, you probably see that, right? That kind of hesitancy, like physicians are like, I was talking to somebody yesterday. She was like, well, I'm not really happy, but I'm just going to have to get used to it. Cause I hear the grass isn't greener and I'm like, Oh, that's, that's, that makes me really sad. Well, you know, where the grass is greener where you water it. Yes. So yeah, the You make your grass greener. And if you're somewhere where that's covered in chemicals and pesticides, jump ship, go somewhere else. You don't have to get used to it. You don't want to get used to being miserable. You want to right. Every day. But isn't that, and I'm not, I'm not saying this to, to push back or anything. I just, I feel like that's such an ethos within physicians is that we are so used to suffering. I mean, in our patients, right. But then in ourselves, we, we go through this grueling training. Program, no matter what specialty we are, it's very, very difficult. And it's hard on our bodies and our minds and, and our mental state. And so there's this kind of notion that, well, if we're not suffering, then it's not worth it, or it's supposed to be hard. Then. That's because if it wasn't hard, everybody would do it. And just kind of this, like, we take this on where we feel like we're supposed to be suffering. And, and I, I just, I see that a lot. And as a coach, it just really breaks my heart because I know there's that there is something more, so much more beautiful on the other side. Well, I wonder if a part of it is, you know, we're We are we get into medicine because we care and we're taught to almost numb ourselves. And so it's like a self sacrifice. Like I'm here for my patients and we are, I'm almost all of us are there for our patients and we neglect ourselves. And I think when you're swimming in misery, it's hard to even recognize even It's just how miserable miserable you are, even that you are miserable. And so from there, where do you go? If you don't know. If you don't know what it is, how do you. Change it. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely agree. And. Yeah. If it's something that we've just been. Kind of enmeshed in for so long, then it's hard to. It's hard to even see it. So by the time that somebody comes to you, are they, are they typically, and I mean like a physician who's that you're trying to partner, are they already usually kind of, they've decided that they want to find another job or are they still kind of trying to even decide if it's right for them? What, what stage are your physician clients at when they come to you? Oh my gosh, every stage for everything. I mean, there's just no, I wouldn't say there's a rule. Probably right now, the most people I'm speaking with are people who are actively looking for jobs because I've been focusing more on the practice side. Um, but even within that, there's so much variability. Just yesterday I was chatting with a doc who messaged me about a practice, which is a great concierge, Primary care, awesome practice. Um, but even that didn't quite fit with what she was looking for. And so, um, I, you know, after we'd been speaking a little bit, I was like, you know, have you thought about starting your own thing? And she's like, yes, I have, but I'm too scared. I'm like, okay. Well, that's not a reason to not start it. So, you know, the conversation went that way, but I've spoken to docs, um, who are just kind of curious what's out there. I've spoken to physicians who are wondering if they should leave medicine entirely. I've spoken with doctors who are looking for another job, um, and know exactly what that is. They didn't like about where they're coming from and are able to then use that information to find something better. Um, I've spoken with docs who are miserable and then just jump right back in. So there's a lot of, you know, openness to what's most important to you and, you know, knowing, knowing what you want next. Yeah. Are you seeing a trend at all towards. I mean, you described in your journey, the one particular health system that was really, you know, inflexible and presented you with this contract that you, you know, you read it or had an attorney read it and you were just like, no, this I'd be handing my business over to you. And it's not compete as crazy. And, and so organizations that are kind of inflexible about that and really. Very corporatized and that type of thing. And then, and then don't give the physicians a lot of autonomy, you know, their schedule is set. They can't change it, that type of thing. And then there's systems that more are more flexible, more, more friendly to physicians who maybe want different schedules or, or what have you, are you starting to see a trend more towards physician autonomy, even in larger systems, or is that still, do we still have a long way to go there? We have a long way to go. I haven't seen much shift yet. Um, I have started, um, I don't know if it's a trend or just You know, my message is getting out there. I've started meeting CEOs of hospitals that have a better mindset and attitude towards physicians. Um, but I, I don't feel like it's anywhere close. Um, and when I talk to people about solutions, that's often about adding more regulations and adding more rules and like, no, we need to take them away. We need to just go back to like old school. You know, each doc just charges what they need to charge kind of thing. Um, so I don't see that trend much yet. Um, I think if this FTC ban on non compete actually goes through, um, you know, at the time of this recording, it hasn't yet officially happened. Right. I think if that happens, it's going to be gigantic shifts because at that point, doctors are free to leave. So, um, We'll see. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We're recording this in August in 2024 and it's being challenged in the cord. And so, yeah, it will be really interesting to see. I think that would be a huge, um, a huge shift. There's just, there's so many, I mean, that's a whole, So that's a whole other show, but there's so many, I had Amanda Hill talking about on talking about it. Yeah. And she's amazing. As we all know, but yeah, so many. exceptions that would just eliminate a lot of physicians anyway. So yeah. Um, yeah, it's interesting when I, when I'm coaching, Physicians who are as in these kind of larger environments and they just feel very powerless and feel very much like, well, nobody really listens to what I have to say and I can't change anything. And I can't, I don't have any control over my schedule. And I, if I try to call in sick, I get in trouble. I mean, calling in sick and you get in trouble, like it's, it's horrible. And so it's, I feel like there, there has to be some level of groundswell. From physicians. And I don't even, I don't necessarily even mean like unionizing or anything kind of that extreme, but just a groundswell of physicians that stand up and say, this isn't okay any longer. And, and I think that's where the grass is. Isn't greener comes from, is it? Again, somebody else I heard it from that said, well, I could just, I'm not happy with this environment, but if I go to another corporation, it's just going to be the exact same. And so there's kind of this sense of, well, it's awful here, but it's going to be awful there too. Cause they're just another big company. It's and that's. That's a big part of why I like private practices and to be clear, not every private practice is amazing. There are many private practices who have the attitude of this is how it was for me. So this is how it's going to be for you. Um, but that being said, you know, when I'm working with docs who are kind of negotiating with a private practice versus a hospital, the hospital is often like, this is our contract. End of story. And the private practices, at least the ones I work with are very flexible. You know, you went, you know, if they're offering two weeks of vacation and the doc is asking for five, they say, okay, how can we make this work? And how can we make this work for everybody? Um, so I think, you know, it takes enough doctors. I agree with you. It takes enough doctors to stand up and say, no, I will not sign that non compete and no, that's ridiculous. Um, and I think that's, you know, when I started my business, that was a part of it was to, you know, Rile up physicians and say, rah, rah, rah. Don't sign your non competes. Um, but I think I realized there are so many physicians who don't feel the, they don't feel empowered to do that. Whereas, you know, I felt very fortunate. Like I didn't realize how rare the way I, what I did was where I said, no, I'm not going to sign that and they left. I had no backup plan. I was like, ah, that's just. Like thinking of future me, that doesn't make sense. Um, so I think if enough of us do that, and if anyone's listening, please don't sign those ridiculous non competes. I understand a small non compete is, you know, fine, but there are many that are not okay. Um, and really just chapstock. So. Yeah. On a tangent there about non competes. So don't sign them. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, definitely have your, have a good attorney review any contracts before you sign. And, um, you know, we mentioned Amanda Hill that she's amazing. She practices in Texas and so, um, but yeah, she's a, She's a tremendous asset and advocate for physicians. I, I agree with you about private practices. I think it seems to me that more physicians are moving in towards private practice, that there's kind of a shift, like over the past couple of decades, there was definitely a shift towards physicians employed by large health systems. And now it seems like there's a shift towards more physicians starting their own practices or doing, you know, concierge or telehealth direct primary care or something like that. So that's something that you're seeing as well. Absolutely. I'm definitely seeing a big shift. Um, there was, and I'd say this, you know, there was a shift away from, from private practice up until pretty recently. I think I'm really starting to see that shift because direct care really started taking off around 20, more or less 2016, 2017. Um, but still a lot of people hadn't heard of it. And now. um, how most people have heard of direct care, you know, direct primary care, there's not direct specialty care. That are starting. A lot of concierge, a lot of people wanting their own, you know, kind of sick of being someone else's cog. Um, in their wheel and they get to be their own, create their own cogs. So. I'm definitely seeing a lot more of, um, people. More that are ready to take that leap, but even still some that are strongly pre contemplative and probably will end up starting their own within the next five years. Yeah, that's great. So when a physician comes to you and they're, Hey, I'm not happy with my job. I'm looking for something. What's the first thing that you do? Where do you start with them? A lot of it is figuring out exactly what it is they don't like. Um, cause you know, I can look for another job for them, but. I don't want to put them right back in with where they are now. Um, so most of the physicians right now that I'm speaking with are for jobs that I actively I'm helping out with, um, for other physicians, um, or anyone, really a big part of it is where are you now? What do you like? What do you not like? What are you willing to compromise on? Um, salary is probably the best. The biggest thing that, um, people do or do not compromise on most do not. Um, so really getting an idea of how important does salary to you and why, um, and are you willing to compromise on that for something that may have better, um, better work life balance, better autonomy, um, feeling happy and refreshed when you go home from work. So really figuring that out would be the first step before we do anything. Yeah. Yeah. And then you kind of use your, your database to look for. Practices that will work for them. Yeah, so I can do that. I have a database. Um, I do a lot of networking with recruiters. Um, so, you know, if it's a job that I have, I vetted it. I know they're going to be awesome. Um, if it's a job through the recruiter, I really like to stay in touch with the doctor. Um, if, and I never ever send resumes without anyone's permission, just like, that's like super clear. And I hope that I'd never forget to tell a doc that, but if they, you know, if it's a job they're interested in and I send the resume, um, I really like to stay in touch with them and, uh, work through the interviews with them and work through negotiations. Um, there were some, there was one doc I was working with, um, where she and I, well, she did all the work. Uh, she negotiated something into our contract that then prompted the hospital system to go in and change it for all of the doctors. So that was a big sweeping change. Um, I was able to be made just Um, but yeah, so I like to stay in touch with docs, you know, if I'm not the one fading the practice, I like to help them to vet it as well. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. And you mentioned about interviewing, and I saw that on your website too, that that's something that you will coach physicians on as well. Is the interviewing skills and I've had this conversation with a couple other folks just about how that's not a skill that we typically hone, at least when I was going through training and interviewing for medical school and residency, it wasn't as emphasized. I think it is definitely more now for applicants, but it wasn't really part of what we needed to perfect or polish. CV. Um, when I applied for my MBA program. Almost 10. Well, it was over 10 years ago. I went back to my CV and it was like my med school CV. It still had my high school jobs on there. I was like, okay, I need to, you know, it just wasn't something that I think as physicians, we, since we don't go through the typical kind of job search that a lot that other professions do after college or grad school or whatever that looks like, um, So I think it's so important to have somebody like you to help with the interviewing skills and, and the CV preparation. And just because we are not going to get that anywhere else. Yeah. Well, it's so funny hearing you say that Ryan. See, I only, uh, pulled up my own. CV recently, and it was terrible. So here I am, like helping other people fix their seats, And so I ended up having to read, not that I use it, but it's good to keep up to date. Yeah. Um, so anyway. That's really funny. Yeah. But, but yeah, I mean I really, really like working with docs on interviews and I do it before, uh, if I help match a physician with a one of the jobs, I do it before every interview. Um, because there's so much to know, um, you know. You can be a great conversationalist, but if you, by that point, usually I already know what their, their, um, values are and what's most important to them in finding a practice, but you want to know how to not just get that across, but also you want to vet them and say, Hey, how do you do this? Or what's important here or there? Um, cause interviewing is not just showing off your best self, but it's showing off your true self and figuring out what the practice is like that you're going to, and is it somewhere that you'll be happy? Yeah, yeah, that's so true. And it's a, it's a two way conversation, right? Is this going to be a good fit for both of us? Yeah. Yeah. And then with practices, if you take on a practice, is it kind of a, I guess it's the same type of approach, but in reverse a little bit, you're looking for the physician similar. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, well, it's entirely different for a practice and a physician. So for practices, I normally spend a couple hours getting to know them before I'll start. Um, I like to know everything about the practice before I, uh, before I start working with them. Um, then I'll go out and find them a physician. Um, I don't, you know, text doctors cause I don't know about you, but I hate getting texts from recruiters. Um, but you know, I do all the kind of usual things plus a few extra, um, and helping them to find their physician. And then I like to coach them through it. Like, um, you know, the doctor wants X, Y, Z, and, um, is that something you can do? Is that something you can't do? Is that realistic? Uh, Is that worth it? Like, is that, do you like this doctor enough that you're willing to compromise? So it's a lot of figuring out that sort of thing, or, you know, or if they call me, they're like, I really want this doctor. What can we do to get them then try to figure that out, you know, whether it's the city and, you know, so we'll invite them to see the city and invite them to see a concert if they're into music or whatever, so. Yeah, that's cool. I just, the concept of the matchmaker, um, I just think is really neat because you, you know, you have these amazing practices that want amazing physicians and then on the other side, it's just kind of matching them up. And so, so that everybody's happy. Yeah. What's next for you? Or is there, is there a next next steps or future growth? Oh man, one, one night of coffee and I don't sleep all night and come up with all the next steps. So there are many next steps and I will keep them under wraps. Yeah. Yeah. We'll have to stay tuned and continue to follow you. Well, Dr. Hockman, it's so wonderful to talk to you. Is there anything that, that you wanted to share that we didn't already touch on? Oh, there's so many things. Okay. How do I pick? Um, I'll all right. I'll tell anyone listening. If you're unhappy where you are, please, please evaluate what it is that makes you unhappy. And let's find something a little bit better, you know, with me or even by yourself, but knowing what it is. And knowing what you'll compromise on, um, is so important. So don't stay stuck. There are so many better things out there. I'm happy to help you. Um, Dr. SuttIn is also happy to help you. Um, there's a lot of resources. You don't need to be miserable. The grass will be greener somewhere else. if you water it. Yeah. I, that's so important. I mean, just being miserable, like you said, and being unhappy is, it's, it's such a waste of time. And I say that not to like minimize or, or make somebody feel like, well, it's your fault for feeling this way, but life is way too short to be miserable where you are. And, There are people like you and me that have found doing what we love and, and are really enjoying life doing it and happy and fulfilled. And there's no reason that anybody else can't. And so I'm grateful that there are folks like you that are really helping to support our physicians so they're thriving and fulfilled. Well, thank you. Back at you. Yeah. And thank you. And yeah, we'll, we will definitely share our, share your links with our listeners. Um, we have your website. You have your on socials, Twitter, um, and then a free email course as well that you, um, had sent us a link to, is there one particular way, or if somebody wants to work with you that they can reach out to you? Uh, best way is actually just through my website. There's a little contact form to fill out that goes straight to my email and usually I'll get back or my assistant will get back and I'm happy to chat. Um, I'm most active on LinkedIn, so you're welcome to message me there, but I don't have my assistant's help on that one. So my website's probably better. Yeah. Sounds great. Thank you so much, Dr. Hockman. It's so great to talk to you. Thank you so much for having me here. While I am a physician, the information presented in this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your own healthcare provider before making any significant changes to your lifestyle or routine. By podcast, you are not creating a physician patient relationship. Thank you for listening to The Purposeful MD Podcast. If you like what you hear, please rate and review the show. Please also visit my website, www. thepurposefulmd. com for free downloads or to discuss working with me as your coach.