Episode 26: The Healing Power of Storytelling

“Never underestimate the power of words.”

Dr. Christina Gomez is an oncologist, a published author, and a mom to a young son. 

For 15 years, Dr. Gomez collected poignant things patients said to her and wrote the book Stopped in My Tracks: A Physician’s Collection of Cancer Patients’ Quotes to share their insights with a wider audience. Her book was released in June 2023.

Join this powerful conversation to hear Dr. Gomez’s story of how she started on the writing journey, and how her patients’ words have shaped her as a physician and as a parent.

Connect with Dr. Gomez here -

https://christinagomezmd.com/

https://www.facebook.com/people/Christina-Gomez-MD/100092948124477/

https://www.instagram.com/christygomezmd/

Transcript

0:08

Welcome to the PurposefulMD Podcast. As a physician, you've sacrificed so much of your life for other people. Your patients, your family, your friends, and your colleagues. What would it feel like to spend time doing what you enjoy, and to live without guilt? I'm your host, Dr. Laura Suttin. A family physician, certified coach, and business owner. If you're a medical professional on a journey towards your most purposeful life, a life with more time and energy, and ultimately more joy, then this is the podcast for you. Welcome to the purposeful MD podcast. I'm so excited to talk to Dr. Christy Gomez. So Christy and I have met and been brought into each other's world through our common publisher. So Christy is going to talk all about her book and, and share about that. And we, we worked with the same publishing team and so as I was publishing my book, I heard a lot of great things about her book. And so we got connected that way. So let me share a little bit about Dr. Gomez and then we'll have her hear it in her story. So Christina Gomez is a Gastroenterol, Gastroenterologist, a Medical Oncologist at Banner MD Anderson Cancer Center. She studied medicine at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine and served as Assistant Professor at Yale University School of Medicine, Smilow Cancer Center, did I say that right? For 15 years, Dr. Gomez collected poignant things her patients said to her and wrote the book, Stopped in My Tracks, A Physician's Collection of Cancer Patients' Quotes to share their influ, insights with a wider audience. And this book was released in June of 2023. Christie was born in Miami, Florida to Cuban parents and knew that from the age of five that she wanted to be a physician. She lives in Phoenix, Arizona with her young son Danny. So wonderful to have you on the podcast with us. Dr. Suttin, thank you, I'm honored to be here and to be meeting you, physician, author, because I'm so attracted to that very title. So, thank you for having me. Yeah, yeah. So, tell us, tell us a little bit about you, how you got to where you are right now. Tell us your story. Ah, thank you. That's a beautiful question, um, because that's like the thread of my work. Now, I hate that a patient's stories are everything. So what about the physician's story? So it's true that, that you mentioned that I was very young when I knew. So odd cause I didn't grow up in a family of physicians. I didn't grow, um, in that lineage, if you will, like Rachel Naomi Remen writes that we belong to this lineage of a physician, the lineage of Maimonides. I didn't grow up in any of that hardworking Cuban family. Um, and I, I knew early on and my parents, I think they kind of laughed it off, right? Like my young son is mentioning all these different titles of astronaut and police officer and firefighter and his, his changed, but mine didn't. And I remember I was very close to my dad, I still am. But, I could, I could hear a sense of, um, concern as that didn't change. Uh, and I remember maybe nine or 12, he's like, are you sure you want to do this? It's a really demanding life. What about your family? Um, you know, as a kid, I wasn't thinking about a family, but I was sure that I wanted to be a physician. And so I, I joke that, you know, it never changed. Ah, the answer never changed, but I remember telling him in high school or college as I was applying, I said, you know, I, I have to try it. It doesn't, it hasn't wavered. And, uh, and that's when he said, you have my full support, of course. And, and back then this was eighties and nineties, things were a little different and women in medicine, even then we were still a minority. I think what my class was one of the first ones that were truly 50, 50. So, um, whatever, University of Miami. And that was full speed ahead. I was able to complete all of my training there. It became home. I was there for 11 years. Uh, I was Chief Resident and then I just stayed on as Chief, um, and Fellowship in Oncology, uh, but then it was time to leave Miami. It was time, right? Like you, you're a lifer in a university. And then I got the opportunity through my mentor, uh, to be faculty at Yale, focus in GI Oncology. Uh, and then now I was able to, uh, transfer, go out West, uh, and that's even a movement I think that has happened inside of me or in my work, uh, moving West, right, to a bit of a slower pace, nonetheless, a full practice in Oncology, I'm here at Banner MD Anderson, uh, in Phoenix, but that's my story. And, and this book came, uh, well, we'll go into that, but my book came in pandemic, at the same time that I adopted a little boy, so I think my story is one of of movement, of, of challenge, of hearing a thread, right? Medicine was a thread, if I'm more personal, adoption was a thread, uh and then following that, following that and seeing it through. And so, so that's where I'm at now. Yeah. I, I thank you so much for sharing all that. It's so beautiful. And you talk about the threads of you wanting to be a physician from when you were very young, and like you said, you followed that through you, you stuck with that and you wanted a child, and so you stuck with that. You wanted to write a book, and so you stuck with that and so I'm definitely seeing this pattern here for you. And we were talking a little bit before we hit record about, yes, we'll talk about the book. We'll talk about anything you want to talk about for sure. But you said something really just poignant before we were recording about how you brought your son into your life, so do you mind sharing, Sharing what that was like for you? So, you know, I haven't really thought about it like this, but in the same way that medicine was just a thread that didn't change. So too was adoption. Um, so I grew up in the church and there were words in scripture that, uh, resonated with me. Uh, they kind of popped out to me. And there was a long time that I thought we all heard it the same way, right? A God who loves us in the spirit of adoption, a God who calls us, ah His own or Her own, right? Not, um, friend, but mine, this, this loving ah, relationship of adoption, right? That, that word continued to resonate. And in the Judeo Christian, right? Tradition. Then there was this story of, of Sarah and Abraham and then boom, there's Isaac, right? And so this whole thing of promise and, and that became a thread. Um, Then I came to know Safe Haven and that whole idea, that whole movement of a safe place for babies that were born into really difficult situations, but where there's no questions asked. And as a physician, and as a person who, who honors people's stories, That whole idea became super attractive to me and I said, I need to participate in Safe Haven, either and volunteer, or I'm going to have a Safe Haven baby, or, uh, and I lived in Florida for many years and single motherhood and adoption that was a whole question. When I moved to Connecticut, uh, to work at Yale, and there was all of a sudden this movement to, to recruit families. And I'd walk through streets of New Haven and there'd be on a light post, just a, like a tacked piece of paper, almost like, you know, open mic night or couch for sale, you know, 1 800 KID HERO. And I typed that into my phone and it was the link to, to the foster care system, to Department of Children and Families, and, and in particular, there was this, I don't know, movement to serve the gay community in Connecticut who wanted to be parents. And I belong to the LGBT community and I said, Oh my God, a state that honors what my family could look like. And I'd watch TV and again, 1 800 KID HERO, right, a thread, a thread. And so I went back to, to prayer and spirituality and once again, the same, right, I have loved you in the spirit of adoption. So this calling that didn't, waiver. And then I began to do my training. I started my training no one really knows this. Uh, the open house for DCF was on February 14th and it wasn't lost on me who, you know, who believes in numbers or who believes in dates or that it wasn't a couch for sale and it wasn't a job as a Barista, 1 800 KID HERO um, February 14 was the day that the open house began for potential foster parents. And I've never told this story much less on, on recording or to the world, but I was being invited to love in a different way. And, and, um, you know, people talk about how commercial Valentine's Day is. And so I, I couldn't believe it. Right. It wasn't about a reservation that night. I rushed to a little office in the corner of the Northwest Hills of Connecticut. And there were just about four families. And, and my, my journey began. I did the entire year of, um, prep. I didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell my family. Because I knew that that was their gestation almost. And so I wasn't ready to be told. Uh, but then I get a phone call four days after the world shut down. Uh, March 2020. And there was a, a call that said, you know, there's this little boy. Very few questions after, uh, Danny came home and I knew, I knew that my son was home and I knew that, um, that it was forever. That whole idea, the caseworkers rolled their eyes and said, you know, that's. That's that's unique. Give this time. And I said, Yeah, there's certain things that we know. And so a year later, despite it being Zoom and still in pandemic when vaccines were just making their way and families have not yet been able to travel or gather. Our adoption was finalized. So, uh, he's seven now and I'm in the throes of, uh, the second grade homework. My goodness. That is such a beautiful story. And, and he is so lucky that he chose you and you chose him and you chose each other. And, um, I, I, I agree with you. I think he, you know, you know, these types of things. And, and so it sounds like that that was just a truth for you that's shown in that moment. And especially the Valentine's Day. I, I I'm with you numbers and dates and things like that have the significance and it sounds like there, there's no better place to be on Valentine's Day than in that room where you were starting your journey. Yeah. Yeah. And as you're speaking, I remember my mentor, uh, Dr. Rosha Lima. He was in, uh, my GI Medical Oncologist in my training. I spent my third year with him. It's how I grew into, into GI. And, you know, he taught me the concept of how he wanted us to be better than, than he and he was extremely successful and prolific. And, um, he said that, no, no, you guys are going to be better than me. Like, I want you guys to go out in the world and do better work. Um, and then he, so that was new to me. And then he said something like, you know, we raise each other, right? That you guys, as my fellows are making me the professor that I am. And so I can't believe we're talking about this and we're bringing him up because that's what I learned in parenting, right, that, that Danny's raising me, um, that I want him to be way better or to have, uh, the opportunities, uh, that, that I can offer to him, but that he can take them on. So, uh, that's the thread now, right? Where Onocology or medicine and life, and I guess all of us have that story, but, for me, alone in pandemic, I dreamed that my family would come and the airlines were shut down, it wasn't safe. Um, but yeah, right. That, that, that we raise each other or that, that I needed Dan really have, he's raising me. It's almost like our training in medicine, right? Right, yeah. Yeah. He's training me. Yeah, it's so true, parenthood is, is such that journey where I'm learning from my daughter all the time and learning how to be a better person and a better mom and a better doctor and better coach and, and all the things. Yeah. Yeah, they're greatest teachers. Yeah. Oh, that worked. That didn't. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And the feedback's pretty immediate. Pretty immediate. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to wait for them to be teenagers for the eye roll. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes, for sure. Oh, that's so, that's so awesome. I definitely want to hear about the book. I mean, I want to, I want to know how that thread started for you. And so tell us where did you, where did this idea come from? Tell us about the whole process. Yeah. Thank you so much. And I really mean it about, um, being honored to meet you, physician, author, and I, I can't wait, uh, to read The Purposeful MD, uh, because early in my career, first year Med School, we were given a book, uh, called Kitchen Table Wisdom by Dr., Dr. Rachel Naomi Rehman. And we were introduced to Perry Class and to all physician authors. And we were invited to jot down, honestly, they talked about it as pearls, things that we learned at the bedside that we had learned in the books, but the books didn't really capture it. You know, whatever it be, Caplet Medusa, right? In a, in a very cirrhotic patient, like jot, jot that down because you saw it or draw it, right? Be the scientist that you are. Like when we learned the scientific method, they asked us to keep that. And this was before I'm aging myself a little bit before cell phones or iPads or anything that was digital. Uh, but that didn't, um, yeah, you're good. You're good. Yeah. That's the seven year old. I'm in recording. Thank you, sorry. You can Yeah, yeah. To jot down pearls of wisdom, that which we pass on to our interns, our residents, to our patients. Uh, but Dr. Suttin, I didn't write those things down. I started quoting patients, or I started writing down verbatim, quote unquote, asking them to repeat what they just said, quotes, things they said to me that made me stop in my tracks, made me pause, made me reflect, things that were raising me as a physician and as a person, things about life and death, things about the way they were coping with illness. I remember that my, my, uh, personal essay for my residency was about patients quotes. I quoted patients. So if I really look back, that was my entire medical school career, where what people said mattered. And we were told early on, right, that the, the diagnosis is in the story, that 85% of the diagnosis lies in the history, if you take a good history, 15% of our work is putting that together. And that moved me. Like, I took that, like, word of God. That's what I needed to do. Uh, I would feel the weight if the history wasn't great. Right? Poor historian. Like, we sometimes see in notes, I was like, no. We need to, we need to delve deeper, how do we connect with this patient, right? The thread now is how do I connect to my seven year old, right? That's parenting. But so that's how the book happened. And I joked with patients, hey can I quote that one day, because I want to write a book about what patients say. And I really didn't know if I meant that if it was ever gonna happen, if it was just a joke, um, but fast forward in pandemic, I bow to Yale's, ah care for the physician. There was basically this, this whole movement, ah on how do we take care of each other in this really scary time. And we have been exposed to things and there were mass shootings and there were trauma surgeons who have been experiencing all that, but this was global and young physicians were getting sick. And I personally was with a young child that I didn't want to Re home because I got sick. Right? And add any transition. So they had a writing hour on how us, how, how could we heal, nurture ourselves, serve under global pandemic at the risk of us getting sick at any moment, serving very sick people. I was in Oncology, so infection on top of immune compromised state, and then the physician getting sick, and then our young families at home and there were so many layers. And then the layer of uncertainty. Well, they had a writing hour and Brooke Adams Law was the guest speaker. She's our, our, our mutual, uh, published author, editor, publisher, writing coach. And she led us this one shouldn't have come in here. Ha So she led us in writing in, uh, freestyle. She asked us about writing an experience from med school, something that moved us some experience that maybe we had never shared. And I remember jotting down like my first loss, right. In the middle of the night, admitting someone following up the next morning and the patient wasn't there. I mean, things that. And writing can do and a writing coach was able to nurture or bring out in us and more a writing hour that Yale was having because we need it. So at the very end of the session, she said, anybody have any thoughts? And I said, you know, I've got this collection of Post-Its. I've got this collection of quotes and I joke with my patients, but I'd love to share and see. Is there something here and Brooke in her wisdom was like, can we take this offline? I love this and she ran with it and even still, even then I, I, I wondered if I could capture what happens in the exam room, what happens in that moment of encounter, what happens between patient and physician, what we're taught since first year about that sacred space And so that's where my doubts were, and I asked Brooke, and I don't know if she's told you, I asked her, I think, 50 times, about each 50 quotes, Are you sure? Does it capture what happened? Does it capture what the patient meant? Does it capture how it moved me? Because I wanted to retain the very art of, ah The art of medicine that came from the patients themselves. So from first year Med School to global pandemic, pulling out all of these Post-Its that I honestly had stashed in a box and going through them with her and then stopped in my tracks was born. And it's really a collection of ah, of quotes, a quote per page. And, ah some of them have artwork. I haven't pulled one of those, but um, that's what happened. Then it was born. Yeah, that's, that's amazing. Um, just amazing how So much in what you said. Um, one thing that struck me was when people around you, when you were in your training, we're writing down kind of the pearls and nuggets and that type of thing. You were writing down what the patients were saying. And, and like you said, we, we are told this so often. That the patients will tell you what's wrong with you. You just have to listen. And it's true because how often, what's the study that says that physicians interrupt patients after like 90 seconds of talking or something ridiculous, maybe even less than that. Maybe I think it's. I think it's like 18 seconds. It's, it's ridiculously low. 90 seconds is way too long, but it's so true. And so I just think what a gift it was that you gave these patients, that you're listening to them and you're writing down what they're saying and even asking them, Hey, can you repeat that? I want to capture that. And. So what was the response that you were getting from your patients as you were doing that? So some of them laughed, like scoffed it off, like, ah, come on, they rolled their eyes. You're not going to quote this. Others loved it, right? Others were like, they'd bring you a quote next time. Like maybe this'll make it to your book someday. Um, but some of them, you know, when they talked about life and death, you know, it was a chance for them to pause too. And Um, you know, I, I recommit to that every day when you mentioned it, right? That, um, pausing, uh, what is it that they're inviting us to allowing silence? And so in Oncology, especially asking them to say the things that they had just said, when it was really about accepting what was next or questions that they had, it was a moment for them to really hear what they said and it was like oh my God I really said that or I meant that or you know saying I want to stop treatment and I'd be like wait what? Yeah, I want to stop my treatment and I want to go write my memoir. I was blown away. She made it to the book, of course, and, and she meant it. She, she stopped treatment and then wrote her memoir and didn't spend time at the Cancer Center. Um, so I recommit every day to hearing, to listening. I pray that I'm teaching it to my students. My residents. Uh, because it's true. Something happens there. Our history is different. Maybe the, the plan is different. Um, just today I wanted to do something just by the book. And yet something within me was like, that's not gonna to work for this patient. And I called a colleague of mine and I said, you know, everything says this is the algorithm. But am I missing something? Because I know him and he's like, you know his social history so well. You know, it uniquely. Let it guide your treatment because that's just as important as family history, history, surgical history. So that's my love in medicine. Um, the medicine that happens or the healing that happens. When we really listen to them. So that, that's my thing. Yeah, it's, it's, it strikes me as so incredible and such a loving, compassionate thing that you do, especially in times when you are maybe not able to offer treatments that are going to extend the person's life or quality of life as a, as a GI Oncologist. And you're having these conversations with patients regularly where, you know, we know that the good news, the news is not good. And, and so, and patients are probably confused and scared. And, and so the fact that you're able to really just ask for their story. You're humanizing them. And you're not just saying, not just treating them like another patient with colon cancer. You're treating them as a person and, and listening to them as a person, as a person who has a story and you want to hear that story. And, and I just, I just think that's, I think that's so incredible. I'm I'm it's getting a little emotional about it, thinking about, um just my own experience as a, the daughter of somebody who went through, who my dad passed away from lung cancer about four years ago. And just thinking about that journey with him and about his medical team that he worked with, that was amazing and really treating him like a, like a person who had agency and respected decisions and that type of thing. And, but also how scary it was, even for me being a physician and being in, in kind of in that role. And I had never heard of some of these drugs and I don't know, I don't know what the best thing to do is. And so even though I'm in the medical field, clearly as a physician, I, there was still a lot of fear and confusion on our part. So, um, I just think that's, that's such a beautiful gift that you are giving your patients and that you're now teaching residents and other physicians to do the same thing. Thank you. Thank you. I'll share two, two pieces there, or maybe, maybe three. One is Dr. Joe Greer. Um, he actually was a Gastroenterologist in Miami, was a University of Miami Medical Student who went, uh, under the bridges of Miami when Miami had a really strong, uh, homelessness, uh, issue. He'd go down there in the streets of Liberty City and he later became faculty and taught us about how he learned that Diabetes was rampant and yet here was this optimistic medical student who couldn't bring insulin because you need refrigeration in Miami, the heat and humidity. So he taught us to look at things a little differently. And he said, I've never, he's actually, I want to bring him up because he later won a National Medal of Freedom under President Obama, and so I'm honored that I, I learned from him, and he said, I've never had a colon walk into my office and he invited us to see the patient completely. And he was a Gastroenterologist. Now I'm an Oncologist. I'm seeing this and I'm telling my students or my patients or their families, I don't just want to treat your pancreas cancer or your colon cancer, right? So I got to treat the whole, the whole patient. So today I had a patient who came as a second opinion. She's gone through multiple lines of therapy, metastatic pancreas cancer. It's acting very aggressively. So not responding to the therapies that we have that can really extend her life. And here it was as a second opinion. She dropped the fact that she had been to someone else earlier in the day. So now I knew I wasn't the second opinion. I'm like the third or fourth. And I highlighted the options. But then I was so moved. That she let me go there because then I said, you know, the option that we really need to talk about here is that what if we don't do this anymore? What if we choose quality? What if, and she was, she uttered it in one of her stories, like, well, does that clinical trial give me any quality? So I took that ball and ran with it. Like, if the goal is quality, you know, let's really weigh quantity. What can we weigh in here? And all of that. So, uh, I am practicing this. I am practicing medicine, right? Picking up on these words that, like my book, made me stop in my tracks or made me pause. Today it was that. But now, I'm trying to be a pupil of, of Dr. Rita Cherone. She's out of Columbia University. And she's the founder, or the, the Mother of Narrative Medicine. And this whole field of medicine about exactly what you and I are talking about. Exactly what you and I are doing in our work. Which is that writing, helps us and helps the patient that the way we tell their stories matters and the way they tell their stories. The way that we're trained to tell a story like an H and P can be so different, so vast. We can talk about it or we can talk about this patient who came for a third opinion and is really seeking quality. I can talk about the phase one trials in pancreas. May not give quality and so that's what I love now and those are the three points right that I wanted to make with that because, again, I'm honored to be like Rachel Naomi Remen said right at the front seat, front row to patients. stories. And then that's what, what we're gifted with. So, so thank you for calling it a gift I'm giving them, but they're gifting us with the stories, the words they choose, like blow my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. Um, and you're using the, the patient's words in order to guide how you take the conversation. You heard quality from that patient. So you use that to to say hey we're going to, this is important to you. And then let's, let's talk here. I love that. And we were chatting before we hit record just about this notion of kind of resting for you. And you had this, this need for kind of putting things down and, and resting and slowing down, so talk about that a little bit, cause I just, I have, I have a ton I could talk about, about rest and how important it is. And I did a podcast episode on it. It's it's in my book, so, but I want to hear from, from you and your, your experience with that and kind of what we were chatting about before we started recording. I'm excited then to listen to it because, because we're not taught rest. Right. I remember, um in, in, in our training, we had One lecture on sleep. I remember there was a speaker in Neurology who spoke on dreams once. Uh, I mean, we're taught to take care of ourselves, right? And, uh, I, I loved your last guest talking about returning to ancient wisdom and, and returning to, um, to what she knew in meditation and with the body and we're invited as practitioners of this sacred art to do holistic approach right mind body soul, but what about the rest of the day, like the rest in the day. Sacred what time is sacred right the coffee sacred, the meditation sacred. What do we say no to, or what do we have to put on the shelf or what do we pause. Um, and so I have adored merging my career, and my art with this book and the birth of Stopped in My Tracks. And I had such a fun year when it first came out. Podcasts and book signings. And then I realized that, oh my God, I'm a, a new parent, but he's not an infant and he's not a toddler. He's now a grade school. And so that was a transition. We came cross country to Arizona. And, and then I was like, but I need to do more with the book. I need to do more with the book. How can Stopped in My Tracks continue to gain traction and, um, or how do I continue to listen to patients in the same way I felt that I was going through a listening dry spell that I couldn't hear words that stood out that I wasn't jotting down. So, um, I just said, by need. Let me just put this down the book. is written. The book is out in the world. Um, the people that know it, know it. I'll let the ripple effects of that. Uh, but I missed, I missed the writing. I missed the, the, the presentation. I miss this. So I put it on hold. I started reading the artist's way again, and then things like this, right? Connections. Our writing team put us in contact. I learned about the Purposeful MD and I'm listening to your podcast and I brought my book out and, and I'm invited to share this. Friday, I came to see a patient or I went into his room. The nurse told me he was not well and um, I went in knowing that I was going to give him a chemo holiday. And he said, he brings out this yellow manila envelope and he said hey Doc, I need, I need you to sign these papers for my disability. And he pulls out the book, not disability papers. He pulled out my book. I never told him. He told him, you know, some other patient had shared with him, and he wanted me to sign it. What I mean is, When I rested this project, it showed up to me or it revealed itself or it's finding its way. Um, I'll share that my girlfriend's mom is now listening to the podcast because that's what she's getting to know me. If we rest, I think life continues, right? Momentum and motion. If we were back to scientists, some things continue. And I think art does that. And art has the power to do that, and there's rest to the artist, but the art itself has a life of its own, uh, almost like, never underestimate the power, right, of, you know, painting the room, or adding flowers to the room. For us, not to underestimate the power of words in your podcast, in your writing, or never underestimating the power that this book was a gift to my patients, um, to their families. It makes me think of a patient's husband who, with all of my hip hop protection, went out to ah my page and said, my wife is Page X, please read this. Uh, but then when I rested, when I said, you know what, I want to do all this art, but I can't right now. Almost like when they ask us to write an essay and put it down. It almost takes on a new. So I'm honored to be living this moment of, okay, this is where Stopped in My Tracks is now and, and my hospital, my Med Exec Committee is now asking to maybe do something with our staff and listening to patients. This book is for all of us, that we are all frontline workers, right? Frontline. My MAA, my Hosptial Cafe Staff. They see our patients week after week, they see the changes in them. My hospital now wants to consider doing, I don't know, kind of a, a sharing, uh, listening, an art of medicine to what we do. Like, it's not out there, it's the art that we do. And so, taking a rest for a minute, it's kind of shown me where things go, where Stopped in My Tracks is kind of making its way in the world. So, I'm, I'm really honored, I'm humbled. And I'm sitting back and, and watching it happen. Yeah. It's, it's so amazing how when we, when we kind of step back and, um, and rest, then all these opportunities open up that were never there before. We're giving them space. And then, like you said, art takes on a life of its own. It's almost like we have to let it breathe, right. And then like a, like a fine bottle of wine, we have to let it breathe and then it will breathe and, and, um, and become something more beautiful. So I just, I love everything that you're doing. Thank you so much. It's been so wonderful to talk to you. Is there any, anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners? Thank you, uh, thank you for having me, for, for listeners who could be, uh, physicians, or all of us who are patients ourselves, right, that, that count on your words, if there's something you want to say to your physician, to your patient, to your partner, to your child, right, the power of words, the power of rest and silence. Uh, that there's something in our stories and, uh, tell your story, tell your stories to the world. Um, you know, we're in an election year. Stories matter. I'm moved by the candidates who say, I have been out there and I have heard your story. We as physicians, uh, to listen to patient's story, you're a coach, uh, you hear these stories every day. Um, there's something in our stories and, and they stopped me in my tracks. Thank you so much for being on. And, um, yeah, just thank you for, for everything that you're doing. Thanks for having me appreciate this so much. While I am a physician, the information presented in this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your own healthcare provider before making any significant changes to your lifestyle or routine. By listening to this podcast, you are not creating a physician patient relationship. Thank you for listening to The Purposeful MD Podcast. If you like what you hear, please rate and review the show. Please also visit my website, www.thepurposefulmd.com for free downloads or to discuss working with me as your coach.