Episode 31: Advocating for Change

Dr. Andrea Austin is a leading emergency physician, simulation educator, author, and advocate for physician well-being. Her book, “Revitalized: A Guidebook to Following Your Healing Heartline,” was published in October 2024.

Join this heartfelt and empowering conversation to hear how to create a thriving career and advocate for impactful change in healthcare.

Connect with Dr. Austin here:

www.andreaaustinmd.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaustinmd/

Instagram @andreaaustinmd

Transcript

0:08

Welcome to the PurposefulMD Podcast. As a physician, you've sacrificed so much of your life for other people. Your patients, your family, your friends, and your colleagues. What would it feel like to spend time doing what you enjoy, and to live without guilt? I'm your host, Dr. Laura Suttin, a family physician, certified coach, and business owner. If you're a medical professional on a journey towards your most purposeful life, a life with more time and energy, and ultimately more joy, then this is the podcast for you. Welcome to the purposeful MD podcast. I'm so excited to have our guest, Dr. Andrea Austin with us today. Um, I'll give her bio and then have her introduce herself. Dr. Andrea Austin is a leading emergency physician, simulation educator, and advocate for physician wellbeing. Her book, Revitalized: A Guidebook to Following Your Healing Heartline transcends her personal burnout narrative. Offering physicians insights into navigating the healthcare system, emphasizing the need for emotional intelligence and innovation as essential to thriving in healthcare. Definitely want to get into all of that and talk about your book since I read it recently. Dr. Austin, thanks so much for being here. It's wonderful to be here. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about you and your background and how you got to where you are right now. I recently was on the creative careers podcast, um, a group out of Australia and they introduced me to this term, um, a portfolio career. And I really like it because a lot of times when I'm talking with people, they're like, what do you do? You have a lot of different titles and institutions that you, you're, you work with. And I think that's the most concise way to say it is just like there's people within, you know, we have investment portfolios. I really view my career as a portfolio. And, and the reason I think that's important is we're going through a lot of disruption in healthcare right now. You know, I, when I joined my current emergency medicine group, ah we, we have a lot of different issues happening in emergency medicine with contracts right now. And I asked, I said, hey, is the contract stable? And I was told the contracts rock solid. We've had this for over 10 years, nothing to worry about. One month in, I get an email for an emergency meeting and guess what, the contract's not very stable. And I had some, ah, particular values and boundaries around what type of, um, groups that I'm willing to work for in emergency medicine. So one month into a job, I was faced with possibly leaving, um, if it went to one of, in my opinion, one of the bad actors, um, with corporate management groups in medicine. So that could have caused a lot of panic, but because just like an investment that goes down, I, I have this portfolio career and yes, my income would have been affected by that change, just like when we lose money on a stock. But I had other things going on. So I will now answer your question to, to kind of explain to the audience, you know, what do I do? A big part of my career is being an educator and my background is simulation. So I teach in a, a fully remote certificate program, and that's part of my job. I would say maybe around 10 hours a week. Um, I'm, I'm doing online remote work and actually just came from a meeting with a, a student on, on Teams before I was here. And then I also, uh, oversee a simulation lab. And, uh, that's with a health care system in Southern California, and they added residents and fellows about six years ago. And so we provide all the simulation services for residents, fellows, and we're also, um, now providing services for nursing and larger institution. So that's exciting. And then I still work some clinical shifts. Then, you know, I, I wrote a book and I take coaching clients. So that pretty much catches people up. So I, I just want to, it's all so amazing. And when I first talked to you and, and learned a little bit more about simulation, it's fascinating. Um, I just want to say, oh, and I wrote a book like, congratulations, um, you and I, we both published our books on the same day, you know, of course we didn't know each other, not planned, but, um, but congratulations. Your book is amazing. And I just, uh, I just want to say how much, when I was reading it, um, how much of, of myself I could see in you and, um, and just how you share your story and you should get really personal and share, um, we just get the sense that we're not alone. And so I just, I appreciate that. So thank you for, for sharing your story and writing the book. Yeah, I, thank you. And, and that is the feedback that I get from people. And, you know, I think there's so many different moments in working in health care that you're like, am I crazy? What is happening here? This is just, you know, not okay. And so I did want to lift, um back the veil, um and, and really let people into, you know, what was going through my head, um, during some of these really challenging times and also show, you know, a path out. Um, right now, 63% of emergency physicians are burned out. And I tell, you know, physicians, honestly, it's probably not a question of if, it's when, and, you know, what are you going to do, um, when that happens? And if you're not experiencing it, probably somebody around you is, so knowing about it and knowing, um, you know, some options on how to harness your agency, and move beyond burnout, um, and, and thrive. Um, it is possible. Right. Yeah. I mean, it, it starts with, it starts with our training and it starts with how we, how we're, um, you know, our undergraduate, our medical school residency training. And that's why I think that it's so important and just so wonderful that physicians and teachers like you are, have learned kind of these skills, you know, you've gone through your own hard times and not that we ever want that to happen. And at the same time, you can pass down those lessons on to your students and your residents. And so that you can see and kind of pick up if there's are signs of burnout and you can be the one to, to help them. Um, so that we don't continue this, kind of mass burnout that we're seeing in our physician community so that we can prevent it and stop it in its tracks and so we can really heal ourselves as a community. I read the book, uh, It Ends With Us and, you know, there was recently the movie that came out and when I talk to people about what we experience in healthcare, especially if you have non-healthcare friends, and you, you them some of the things that happen, it's really abuse. Um, and I have another, you know, group of friends, um, the whole physicians and, and and they talk about this narcissistic cycle of abuse, that there's a lot of narcissism in medicine that contributes to an abusive culture. And I feel very strongly about being a person that's breaking the cycle. Um, and I know that some of my colleagues think I am woo woo. And Andrea has gone soft, and Andrea is always talking about, uh, this well being stuff and it, it comes from a place of still loving our patients. And I feel that in order to take care of our patients in an ethical way, in the best way possible is to be these, whole humans, um, that have a growth mindset. And that's going to be the way forward to really have the type of healthcare system that our patients want and that we can actually be fulfilled working in. Yeah. Like you said, our, what our patients want. And there's so much research that shows that physicians that are burned out have worse patient outcomes. They are like, likely to commit errors, pat, patient satisfactions decreased. And so I, I like you, have talked with my non-medical friends and family, and I think all of us probably have a story of healthcare gone wrong in our lives, right? And unfortunately, and so, um, I was talking with a family member a while back, just about, just some frustration that she had about a, a recent medical experience. And, um, I validated it. I said, yeah, that's, that sounds really hard, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Um, and it's not a justification, but your physician probably had to deal with X, Y, and Z, and all these other challenges. And, and, so again it doesn't justify poor behavior. Um, but I think bringing some of these things to light, to the, to the general public, to the people that are seeking medical care can help for all of us to advocate, because it's in all of our best interests for our physicians to be taken care of, just like our pilots, right, I mean you talk about this in your book and, um, you know, you have ah military experience of, uh, retired from the Navy or not retired, but a Navy veteran, right?. Correct. Yes. Um, and so, you know, this too, I mean, our, our pilots and our, um, service members need to rest and there's mandated rest for a lot of, a lot of those careers. And so why aren't we doing that for our physicians too? Um, so I just, I, I love that you're advocating for this and that you're part of that community that can pass along that knowledge to the next generation. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I, I talk about in the book that we've, we've all had those, some of us have experienced poor interactions in the healthcare system ourselves. And I just want to share, a, a brief example of how doing this work and the power of coaching actually matters. I, I recently had my gynecology visit and it was a new gynecologist, you know, it's a sensitive exam, and, it was brief. She was probably, the interaction was probably, it was definitely less than 15 minutes and it may have been 12 minutes, but she was so caring and her presence was she, from a coaching mindset, she was so present in her interaction with me. And she asked, you know, some really like, open-ended questions. Like, how are you? What are you doing to take care of yourself? And I was just struck by her presence. And because she asked these questions and, you know, found out that I was a physician, we started talking about coaching and, and my book. And then she said at the end, oh I'm part of a coaching community for women physicians. And I was like, oh, of course you are, like you were able to show up even during this very brief interaction. And the emotional intelligence, the way you, you showed up here, it's clear that you've done the work and juxtapose that with a visit I had two years ago that was just horrendous. Not with her. It was with somebody else. It was absolutely horrendous. And the person was so dysregulated, and so rushed, and so. Uh, it was just a really icky feeling after that exam. And I had such compassion for that doctor, cause I was like, oh yeah, I've been that, I've been that doctor, you know? Um, so I get it. So for anyone listening out there that, you know, I like to say coaching curious, um, it really does make a difference. Yeah, yeah. I, I, I love that. And I, um, what comes to mind for me is that it doesn't take more time in order to be compassionate and to be really fully present for an exam and again, a lot of data showing that even brief visits when we sit down, when we really engage with our patients, that the visit can feel longer, and the patients leave the visit feeling seen and feeling heard um, but it does take, it does take emotional regulation, like you said, this other position was dysregulated. And so it does take, it takes work. Um, in the sense that we have to make sure that our own needs are taken care of. And we have to advocate for ourselves in those situations where maybe somebody else isn't there to advocate for us or to make sure that we are eating, and sleeping, and using the bathroom, and all those, all those basic functions. Right. Um, yeah, when I was writing, when I was writing my book, um, I had my, I worked with a kind of a, an editing team, but also a, um, a writing coach and she was a non-physician. Um, but she was shocked at some of the stories, um, that I wrote about and you and I have a very, uh, almost exactly the same story writing about a physician who was rolling their IV fluids into the exam room with a patient. So, we can imagine a physician that is ill enough to need IV fluids themselves seeing patients rolling in their own IV fluids. And I, I, in my own experience, this was probably 10 years ago when I heard about this. And my first thought was, what does the patient think? If I'm a patient, sitting in an exam room, whether that's an emergency department, an outpatient clinic, whatever that is, and my doctor rolls in with their own IV fluids, like my spidey senses should be going off. Like maybe this doctor needs to go take a break. Yeah. I mean, we wouldn't want to get onto a plane with a pilot like, hey everyone, no big deal here, I've got my IV bag bag here. You know, I just need a little hydration and planes pretty much on autopilot. We should be okay. Yes. Yeah, exactly. That I would get off that plane immediately. Mm hmm. Yeah. So how do we, how do we turn that, how do we kind of turn that culture? So when you, you said something that I want to go back to, cause you said that, that the perception is that you, you know, you're woo woo and kind of going soft. How do you respond to some of those comments? You know, it's, it's been very interesting because I think that's the reaction that a lot of people have and, you know, from the coaching psychology world, I'm not in charge of anybody else's reaction. Um, I'm only in charge of the way I show up to interactions. And, being authentic, and having the evidence behind what I say, and being consistent, and being the person that people can come to, um, with problems, it's starting to pay dividends. It's, it's a slow process, um, but what I'm starting to see now is people are starting to get it, because there is credibility in doing this work, and it's the nurses that are able to come to me, and confide, and share things that are happening, um, and me being able to, um, advocate for them, and, and they know, and it doesn't mean that I'm perfect, you know, I have days that I show up to work, and the ER is a very difficult place to be, and I have moments that aren't, um, my, most Zen self, um, but owning those and saying, yeah, I, I want to show up better. Um, and being able to have that vulnerability and build trust, um, with people. So I think at the end of the day, the beauty of coaching, is I really know who I am now and so somebody saying, oh Andrea's woo woo, or she's soft, or she's always talking about this well being stuff. Um, I'm not really concerned about, that for me, I'm more concerned or curious about, um, what that says about the other person. Um, and I'm hoping that having this cadence of, um, consistency around what I'm saying, and how I'm showing up, and how I'm trying to support other people, um, eventually starts to, um, change the tide. Yeah, so, just so much on what you just said, I want to unpack that, thank you. A couple different, you said it in a couple different ways, but basically that, you know as a coach, that you're not responsible for another person's response, reactions, emotions, behavior, speech, any of that. And I just want to, I just want to highlight that. I think that is, that's probably the most important lesson I've had to learn in my life. Um, and it's something that I'm also trying to, um, trying to instill in my daughter, who's a 17 year old, she's in high school. Um, I just, I think it's just such an important lesson that we, we're not responsible for other people's behavior. And then the other thing that you said, that does the other side of that coin, is that whatever they say is a reflection of them and their, their model of being, or insecurities, or whatever their fears, whatever's coming up for them and has nothing to do with you. And so that's just so, so important. If we could take one thing away from all of this, uh, I would say that, that, that just is really hit home for me. And then the other thing I heard you say is consistency and authenticity, and just keep showing up and doing what you do. And that nobody's perfect, and you're not perfect, and you have off days. And yet, I imagine that your off days are probably fewer and shorter than they were years ago, uh, when you were in your training and kind of before you, um, became this, um, you know, kind of different version of yourself. And so, you know, you're able to recognize it probably more quickly and take care of yourself in those ways. So, um, I just, I, I appreciate that. And I just want to kind of call out those two things that I heard that you said. Yeah, absolutely, the concise version is let people be wrong about you. Yes. And the first time I heard that I was like, what do you mean? Like if somebody saying something about me, I'm going to go correct it. Um, and you know, there's a time and a place, there sometimes you factually have to, you know, go to bat for yourself, but for the most part, um, just let your actions speak louder and, um, you don't really need to manage your image. Yeah, yeah absolutely. That I, I couldn't agree more. Um, we, we do what we do, and people are going to say what they say, and it's just, it's a reflection of them and not us. And so it's too much time and energy wasted in trying to fix what somebody else thinks about us. Yep. Yeah. So how do you approach when you have either clients, or maybe students or residents that you're working with that are, you see yourself in them and where you were 10 years ago, and you see this burnout starting to creep in? What, how do you, how do you work with somebody like that? Yeah. Um, you know, I think it kind of depends on the setting. Um, certainly with coaching clients, um, you know, we have an in, I have an intake process, um, that I, I use to really better understand, um, more of their, um, you know, their life history and story and, you know, where they want to go. Um, and we inevitably start with values work. Um, but even in a short interaction, I think, um, starting with values, um, can happen even if it's just, um, checking in, um, with somebody. I think when, when we talk about burnout, um, it has such a negative connotation, like, oh, you're burned out. And, and really when you look at the history of wellness around physicians, burnout was something that physicians were shamed for, like, what's wrong with you? You should be happy that you're a doctor. It was so hard to go to medical school. So many people want to be in your shoes. What's wrong with you that you're not happy. And instead, one of the most insightful things I've heard about burnout was from Michelle Woolhouse, who I quote in the book, and Michelle introduced me to this concept of befriending your burnout. And when you first hear that, you're like, what, why would I befriend something that's causing me pain? And it's something we don't want. Um, but if you follow your burnout down, it's trying to teach you something. And for me, and I think for a lot of physicians out there, your burnout is trying to teach you about the way you're doing things isn't working. Um, and I also learned following my burnout down, that one of the root causes was moral injury. And so once I was able to clearly articulate that, and I can do it on shift now, I can say when, you know, the elderly patient that's been boarding in our hallway, this literally happened the other day, this poor gentleman was like, doctor help me. And he's like, I need to go to the bathroom. And nobody had taken him to the bathroom in like six hours. He was, he smelled bad. I mean, it was terrible. It was absolutely terrible. And I was able to say in this moment, like, I'm feeling very upset right now, and I don't like my job at this very moment, because this is an example of moral injury. I am feeling distress, because the system has allowed our emergency department to be overcrowded and we're not prop, properly staffed. And he shouldn't have to be in a hallway. Um, so that level of granularity, um, that I have is from following my burnout down and just kept trying to uncover, like, what is this? What is this, uh, really uncomfortable feeling? And then what was underneath of it was a feeling of, you know, I believe in justice and fairness, um, and I believe in being a compassionate doctor, and I'm not set up in a lot of situations to provide care in line with those core values. Yeah. That's such a, thank you for sharing all that. And I mean, you mentioned justice, and fairness, and compassion, and those sound like those are core values for you. And starting with the values, um, so that we can recognize, ok, this is something that's going against my values and in this situation, um, and just, um, this is my understanding of the definition of boarding, since I'm not in the ER or hospital medicine, but it's when a patient is admitted, but they are still in the emergency room awaiting a bed. I'm like, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm hearing from my ER colleagues that that's just happening more and more often lately. And so, um, and so in this situation, this injustice of this patient shouldn't have had to have been waiting for so long to get some of the care that he needs. And, um, I think where, where I hear a lot of physicians mind goes is, well, but I can't fix it. You know, I can't fix the, I can't fix the overcrowding, I can't fix the staffing, and kind of this railing against some of the injustices that we see. So how do you rectify that for yourself, and for your clients, and your students? Yeah. So I have a, um, paper that's going to be coming out this year on physician change makers. And, I had to take a really, you know, I, I took a sabbatical, I took three months off, and I had to really ask myself, am I going to go back and practice healthcare in the United States? Am I going to do this? And the only way I personally could go back, was adopting a new identity as a physician change maker. And so, what I challenge physicians that say, well, it's a system and I can't do anything about it. I'd really challenge that. Really? Um, you, you are a very educated, integral part of the health care system, and many people that you interact with consider you a leader. And so, yes, I understand when you're on shift or in the clinic, you may not be able to work on a systems change in that moment, because you need to take care of the patient and you have another patient waiting for you. But, the way I deal with it is I take note of these issues. I do show up to staff meetings. I do voice my opinion, um, and then I am, uh, a member of several professional organizations and paying dues, is an active agency, because I know that, um, they use that money to talk to politicians and do the advocacy work. Um, so what I challenge physicians to think about is there's individual agency. So I have agency to speak up during a staff meeting and say, I'm concerned about this, um, situation. And here's my suggestions on how we could improve it. And then there's collective agency, and collective agency is professional organizations or other, you know, groups you join, because the problems and the dilemmas that we're facing cannot be solved by one person. And it's going to take collective agency to fix them. And so I see this gap, um, with physicians and I understand how it happens, because none of us really got much education. Whether it was a medical student or residency on how to band together to have collective agency. And so then we, many of us hit early, mid career and we're like, wait a minute, this isn't what I signed up for. And I don't have the skills to be able to navigate this really difficult system. Um, so, you know, I think obviously I, I, I do change making a pretty, um agressive level, um, with how active I am in various organizations, my podcast, all my book are all examples of taking change making to a really, um, high level. Um, but even, you know, the physician that says, I'm going to continue to work full time. I don't have admin by, by down. If all physicians took 30 minutes a month to do some form of change making, I, I think our healthcare system would look, look a lot different. Yeah. I love that. I think it's, um, it's just really, even just hearing you makes me feel so much more empowered. And I think a lot of times we, we feel like, yeah, we don't, we don't have a voice or, you know, we don't have, um, we just don't have the kind of the collective, you know, we're not unionized and there's all this talk about physicians and in certain parts of the country, um, in certain countries forming unions. And, um, so lots of discussion about this now. Um, especially as we're seeing so many changes in our, in our, social political environment, and especially within healthcare, um, just knowing that we really do have, we do have a voice and our opinion matters. Um, so professional associations I'm hearing just kind of thinking through, ok, if I'm a, if I'm a physician and I have these ideas, you know, where do I start, um, professional associations, I do know that talking to our Congress people and their staffers has a big impact. Um, either at the state level or at the, even at the U. S. level, um, part of my master's program was a public policy course that was in D. C. and we talked to a couple Congress people in, and their, um, and their staffers, and I was chatting with some, um, some colleagues the other day who are, um, essentially advocates, lobbyists, and they, they agree. They said, yeah, it makes a big difference when they hear from their constituents. So, um, yeah, help me expand on that. What else would you, what else would you add to that? Yeah, so I would start. You know, hyper local and I'll give you the first day this like really clicked in my brain, is I was at my new hospital, and I was invited to attend the code blue committee meeting and I was running a couple minutes late. I, you know, took a seat in the back and I told myself like, I'm going to be quiet. I'm just going to observe. Um, and then I'm, I'm looking around the room and I suddenly realize I'm the only physician. There's like 30 people in the room. And I'm the only physician and I thought, well, this is strange. And even though I thought to myself, I'm not going to say anything during this meeting, I'm going to observe a few minutes in, they're like, oh my gosh, Dr. Austin's here. You're like, Dr. Austin, can you come sit down here? And then they brought me down to the front of the room. They start asking me questions, and they were yearning for physician leadership. And I thought to myself, oh my gosh, they've been waiting for this. And so how many opportunities are there like that in your hospital? And I get it. And you should have a boundary around, um, unpaid work. The truth is a lot of times unpaid work can turn into paid work. Um, and you know, I think everyone should be in charge of their own life and enlist the help of a coach. Um, I was fortunate that my time at that meeting was compensated. Um, so starting with local, um, change, because oftentimes that's where you do have the most influence and you can like start to see things happen, which can be very, um, exciting and add to your, um, energy reserves. So start local. Um, and then I think medical societies, um, you know, I follow the California Medical Society, and they're always telling us what laws are coming up and have different actions that we can do to get involved in. And then I'm also an ambassador for the Dr. Lorna Breen Foundation. Uh, Lorna Breen was an emergency physician that committed suicide, um, early on in the pandemic, uh, she was working in one of the hospitals in New York that, um, was essentially overrun with COVID patients and she became, um, depressed and, um, was convinced that she was going to lose her medical license if she sought help, and ultimately committed suicide, which was just a huge travesty. Um, part of being part of the Lorna Breen Foundation is again, they provide advocacy updates. They say, this is the various laws that are coming up, and this is what we'd like you to do to help us, you know, um, enact change. So a lot of these things don't take a lot of time. Um, even social media, it can be as simple as resharing and amplifying a post, um, can be a form of change making. So I guess what I'd really challenge people to do is pick one thing and make sure when you're doing that thing, you're telling yourself that it is an active agency, and that you are making a difference. Um, and our world moves very fast and some clinicians like emergency doctors, um, are used to getting more instantaneous results, you know, shoulder dislocation, comes, comes in, I pop it back in. It's very satisfying. But the changes we're talking about in healthcare right now are not going to be that quick. And so, and a lot of times it's three steps forward and two steps back. Um, so getting to better understand the tempo and also the complexities. So, you know, that way you can be a resource for colleagues around you. Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe our reimbursements went down again. And you can say, well, all right. So Medicare hasn't been, um, essentially properly funded for 20 years, physician wages, reimbursements related to Medicare have gone down. Hospital reimbursements related to Medicare have not. So now we have a conversation. How are the healthcare administrators ensuring that the hospital is getting their Medicare funding and the physicians aren't? Yeah, yeah, so arming ourselves with knowledge for sure. Um, so that we can engage in those conversations. Um, and then you said starting hyperlocal and I think, yeah, I, that sounds like a really impactful way. I, I, similarly, I was in a lot of, um, initiatives and engage in, uh, organizational, um, efforts within my previous company where I was the only physician. And I thought, man, if I hadn't, if I hadn't been here to kind of speak up for the doctors, um, things could have gone off the rails. So it can make a huge impact and it sounds like your presence did so. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I know I just gave a little zing to healthcare administrators out there. Uh, one of the most impactful conversations I've had in the last two years was with our hospital CEO. And, we talked about boarding, and you know what's going on, and she shared with me that they have every intention of making the hospital bigger and one of the real issues in California is the cost of construction, and right now it's estimated that building a new hospital room, not a hospital mind you, one hospital room in California is estimated to cost 3 million dollars right now. And that's related to the infrastructure around that room. And since we have so much that is required by law related to earthquakes, a hospital has to have one week of water and like one week of like sewage capabilities. And it, so it gets to be again, more complicated. And so I suddenly had to re-examine the story in my head around healthcare administrators, that they're all money grubbing and out to screw over the doctors. Where in actuality, many are trying, they chose to work in healthcare. They could have chose to work in, put in any other industry, um, but they chose to work in healthcare. So many healthcare administrators are experiencing moral injury. They understand the problems and they're trying to do their best to address it. And we're all feeling this collective pain that it's not enough. Um, so I would again, challenge listeners that if the story in your head is that your healthcare administrators are terrible, you know, is there a way, um, that you can speak to one of them, or if that's not appropriate with the chain of command, can you talk to your medical director and ask very pointed questions and say, you know, what, what conversations are being had when you bring these issues up with the administrator, what are they telling you? Um, and sometimes the answer you get back is, yeah, we're working on this, but it's going to be five years, which that's a, that's a tough one to hear, but it also helps like, ok, they do have a plan, it's not on the time schedule I think it should be, but that might help quite a bit. Yeah, yeah. Getting really curious and assuming that everybody's just trying to do their, do their best and do the right thing, um, rather than kind of making negative assumptions right off the bat. Absolutely. Because that's, that's how we, that's how the conversations have to start and that's how we work together is when we can see ourselves with that compassion and, um, just like you saw that physician that was, um, you know, not at, not the best bedside manner a couple years ago. So. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here, Dr. Austin. It's wonderful to have you. Um, so where can our listeners find you? Where's the best place for our listeners to get in touch with you? Yeah. Um, my website is andreaaustinmd.com. Um, that really has every way to connect with me. Links to the book, um, links to the podcast. Uh, for social media, I'm most active on Instagram and LinkedIn. And again, that's andreaaustinmd. All right, we'll include those in the show notes. So thank you so much for being here, wonderful to have you. Well, thank you, Dr. Suttin. And I'm looking forward to having you on my podcast, so listeners, um, can, um, listen to both and get to, to hear you in the interview chair. Awesome. Thank you. I'm excited. Thanks. While I am a physician, the information presented in this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. It is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your own healthcare provider before making any significant changes to your lifestyle or routine. By listening to this podcast, you are not creating a physician patient relationship. Thank you for listening to the Purposeful MD podcast. If you like what you hear, please rate and review the show. Please also visit my website, www.thepurposefulmd.com for free downloads or to discuss working with me as your coach.