The Soil Network: Episode 4 - Jeff Cook, Murray McLaughlin, and Guillaume Tant

Join us for an insightful episode of the Soil Network podcast, recorded live from the Innovative Farm Association of Ontario 2024 conference in Kitchener, Ontario. Host Ian Virtue sits down with three distinguished guests: Jeff Cook, a cash crop producer from London, Ontario; Murray McLaughlin, an expert in agricultural bioeconomy; and Guillaume Tant, a French agronomist focused on plant nutrition and health and a current Nuffield Scholar.

In this episode, our guests share their perspectives on the interconnectedness of global markets and their impacts on local farming decisions. Jeff Cook discusses the influence of international trends on his crop choices and profitability. Murray McLaughlin delves into the potential of the bioeconomy and the innovative uses of biomass. Guillaume Tant provides insights into the challenges European farmers face due to the war in Ukraine and the excess grain in the market, emphasizing the need for flexibility in crop planning.

The conversation shifts to the broader implications of these trends on sustainability and resilience in agriculture. Our guests explore how Canadian farmers can position themselves to better adapt to these changing circumstances, highlighting the importance of innovation, technology, and community cooperation.

Listeners will gain valuable knowledge on:

• The effects of global market dynamics on local farming economies.
• Strategies for making farming systems more resilient and sustainable.
• The role of biomass and bioeconomy in future agricultural practices.
• The importance of building strong farmer networks to share knowledge and support innovation.

Tune in to hear real-world examples, expert insights, and practical advice that can help farmers navigate the complexities of modern agriculture.

Guest Information:

• Jeff Cook: A cash crop farmer with a strong focus on technology, profitability, and sustainability, farming near London, Ontario. Contact Info. Connect on Twitter
• Murray McLaughlin: An agricultural bioeconomy specialist with extensive experience in facilitating the commercialization of biotech innovations.
• Guillaume Tant: A French agronomist dedicated to improving plant nutrition and health, helping farmers achieve sustainability and profitability, and a current Nuffield Scholar.  Connect on Twitter

Don't miss this engaging discussion that connects the dots between global trends and local farming strategies.

Thanks for tuning in to the Soil Network Podcast!

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Let’s keep growing—together. See you next time!

Transcript

00:00:00:000 - 00:00:19:075
Unknown
Well, first off, thank you guys so much for being here. My name is Ian Virtue. This is the Coffees and Carmine's podcast. We're at Ifo, the innovative farm Association of Ontario 2024 conference here in Kitchener, Ontario. I'm here with Jeff Cook, Jim Tom and Murray McLaughlin. I'm going to have them introduce themselves.

00:00:19:075 - 00:00:19:081
Unknown
We're

00:00:19:081 - 00:00:22:081
Unknown
have a great conversation about economics and,

00:00:22:081 - 00:00:23:083
Unknown
see where things take us.

00:00:23:083 - 00:00:26:115
Unknown
Jeff, I'm going to have you start. Sure. So my name is Jeff Cook.

00:00:26:115 - 00:00:35:035
Unknown
I farm with my family near London, Ontario. And so we're cash crop producers. We have a strong focus on technology, and,

00:00:35:035 - 00:00:37:115
Unknown
overall profitability and sustainability.

00:00:38:005 - 00:00:38:039
Unknown
Also,

00:00:38:039 - 00:00:53:013
Unknown
I'm Jim Towle, I'm French farmer and agronomists. I run a business where we are really focusing on plant nutrition and plant health all over France. And the goal is to help farmers to be more sustainable and have more profit at the end.

00:00:53:013 - 00:01:05:035
Unknown
Hi, I'm Murray McLaughlin. I'm focused on agricultural bioeconomy in the biotechnology sector and focused in that area for many years and helping to help facilitate commercialization of the in

00:01:05:035 - 00:01:07:101
Unknown
those types of technologies into the industry.

00:01:07:111 - 00:01:11:106
Unknown
Working with government and provincial and federal governments and

00:01:11:106 - 00:01:18:092
Unknown
also with industry and farmers to really build, build a bio economy industry within Canada. Amazing.

00:01:18:092 - 00:01:20:045
Unknown
All right. I'd like to start

00:01:20:045 - 00:01:23:014
Unknown
broad. Quite broad. Global, actually.

00:01:23:014 - 00:01:36:118
Unknown
I wanna talk about the interconnectedness of global markets and how this international trend affects local farming economies. So, Jeff, I'd like to start with you. How have these trends influenced your personal farming decisions?

00:01:36:118 - 00:01:43:010
Unknown
sure. So I think about, you know, as growers, we we want to meet with the the market's demanding, right.

00:01:43:010 - 00:01:56:005
Unknown
So our crop, you know, which crops we grow is going to have a big impact on crop prices. So you know we we certainly are. You know we have the environmental factors to consider. But

00:01:56:005 - 00:01:58:059
Unknown
you know, if we were able to expand to a

00:01:58:059 - 00:02:01:007
Unknown
global markets for, for wheat, then,

00:02:01:007 - 00:02:07:048
Unknown
certainly I think that could impact the profitability of that crop in the system for us here locally, for sure.

00:02:07:057 - 00:02:16:063
Unknown
Can you tell me a little bit more about these global trends, like what are you noticing, especially from an economics perspective, when it comes to like being a farmer or

00:02:16:063 - 00:02:22:111
Unknown
is it becoming more more typical or what are the new challenges being faced? I want to keep it broad and see what direction you guys take it in.

00:02:22:111 - 00:02:33:040
Unknown
so a specific example in Europe at the moment with the war in Ukraine, we have massive amount of grain going through Europe and marketing in Europe on the Euro brands.

00:02:33:049 - 00:02:44:066
Unknown
And so this kind of decision making massive impact caused the price of the grain for Poland, for example, in Germany just decreased because we have too much grain locally available.

00:02:44:066 - 00:02:56:090
Unknown
And so because this grain, while leaving Ukraine from the south before and going towards our country, no, it's living reaction from north and also north and markets are flooded with excess grain at the moment.

00:02:56:099 - 00:03:12:106
Unknown
So we have to change the crop. We are growing in the farming system. We have a farm because if we are focusing on wheat, for example, market is offloaded not in Europe and domestically. So yeah, changing in

00:03:12:106 - 00:03:13:042
Unknown
not

00:03:13:042 - 00:03:19:068
Unknown
this kind of change kind of big decision. And redesigning all farming system by himself.

00:03:19:068 - 00:03:24:055
Unknown
Fascinating. It's interesting. Globally, it seems like we're at this point where

00:03:24:055 - 00:03:32:046
Unknown
especially Western markets are no longer happy with the globalized world, that they played such a pivotal role in creating.

00:03:32:046 - 00:03:51:071
Unknown
We're almost seeing this decoupling of systems. How have or is that a trend you've seen in farming, in agriculture as well? And if so, how can people position themselves to better adapt to these more difficult circumstances?

00:03:51:080 - 00:03:52:054
Unknown
Well, I think that,

00:03:52:054 - 00:03:55:033
Unknown
farmers, farmers have have a good

00:03:55:033 - 00:04:12:113
Unknown
trade, a good track record of adapting as they need to, but we need to really help them and understanding what are the opportunities out there. And I, I look at by the bio economy and by products of biomass. Biomass is one of our Canadian opportunities. We we produce a lot of biomass that we don't use today the

00:04:12:113 - 00:04:15:001
Unknown
other than to go back into the field.

00:04:15:011 - 00:04:33:056
Unknown
And in most cases, that's been a been a good use of it to create stability in the soil and nutrition. But now what is the point that we are using gotten to the point of corn. That biomass has become a problem. Is too much biomass on top of the soil that we need to figure out how we can reduce some of that and use it for other uses.

00:04:33:056 - 00:04:50:044
Unknown
So we're looking at creating opportunities where the for by a percentage of the biomass come off the field and then use that for producing other products in the bio industry. Interesting. You guys have anything to add? Yeah, I just think that, you know, that being said,

00:04:50:044 - 00:04:57:086
Unknown
you know, it might seem like we're trying to take a little more out of the, the land, but I think, you know, even if we are able to harvest the biomass

00:04:57:086 - 00:05:05:047
Unknown
that's left over from a corn crop, say, it may open up other opportunities to utilize things like cover crops and,

00:05:05:047 - 00:05:10:036
Unknown
organic amendments, manure and integrate those into the system as well, so that, you know, the

00:05:10:036 - 00:05:26:061
Unknown
overall system's not just more profitable, but from a sustainability standpoint, it becomes more resilient, more diverse at the same time. So I think there's a great opportunity there. Well, you know, and I definitely agree with that. I mean, it's a matter of getting the right balance.

00:05:26:061 - 00:05:35:043
Unknown
We we don't in the in the biomass quality network. We, we were recommending taking up to 50% of the biomass off based on yield.

00:05:35:052 - 00:05:47:057
Unknown
If your yields were high and you could take 50% of your yields or lower, then you would reduce that or maybe take none off until you get to a certain point, because the biomass does adjust based on yields on.

00:05:47:057 - 00:05:57:078
Unknown
So you want to manage you need to manage that because biomass is a resource. As I mentioned earlier, there's a good farmer friend of mine said there's no such thing as waste, just underutilized resources.

00:05:57:078 - 00:06:05:074
Unknown
So I imagine if you look at it as an underutilized resource, how do we utilize part of that to do something else to create a benefit on the farm?

00:06:05:074 - 00:06:18:023
Unknown
Very cool. And I really like that idea to look at and utilize resources. There is biomass, but on the farm we are able to create many opportunities within the energy of solar or or with agritourism or other.

00:06:18:023 - 00:06:38:097
Unknown
And the idea so producing food and produce to sell, it's one way to make money on the farm. But if we can increase the way and the streams of bringing money back to from that create more resilient system, and you are able even if the food market is not the best one this year, you still have money coming on your system and you create something way more resilient.

00:06:38:097 - 00:06:50:111
Unknown
And with the cycle, we can increase the variability of the market and crisis. We need to be able to have a system that we call antifragile. So as a result of that, we can have

00:06:50:111 - 00:06:57:017
Unknown
I really want to explore that deeper. Talking about like building, I can antifragile system or

00:06:57:017 - 00:07:00:111
Unknown
farm or I like I like the system more, more broadly.

00:07:01:000 - 00:07:02:099
Unknown
can you give some examples of that?

00:07:02:099 - 00:07:13:014
Unknown
one of them I was talking about earlier, before that square. So pressing piece to make. Jean, usually you proceed to produce alcohol, you use,

00:07:13:014 - 00:07:21:053
Unknown
grain. So to grow grain, you need some nitrogen. So they change the system to produce peas. And with a pea, you will don the nitrogen.

00:07:21:053 - 00:07:41:096
Unknown
So you lowering your inputs. And at the same time, you add nitrogen in your cycle. And also on the same farming system, they were looking at suppressing the genes. So you need a lot of it to boil the water. But to boil water you can use natural gas or natural resource. But they say why not switching to solar.

00:07:41:106 - 00:08:10:073
Unknown
So they start to eat with electricity, with solar. But you can run your system only during the day. So how to run your system during nighttime? And when you boil and distill, you need to run 24 seven. And so they were looking at batteries. But at that time batteries were not efficient enough. So they look at hydrogen. And so they made hydrogen with the excess of electricity drinks a day and storage to use it during the night and during the cloudy days.

00:08:10:082 - 00:08:19:091
Unknown
So by just creating a produce, you are able to embrace many bricks together, to be able to be less fragile as you can

00:08:19:091 - 00:08:23:013
Unknown
now, these systems or anything you like that?

00:08:23:013 - 00:08:35:037
Unknown
no. It's just I'm just thinking we haven't even really touched on, you know, potential for carbon markets and what that might mean for, for, you know, diversifying the income streams for, for farms.

00:08:35:047 - 00:08:57:054
Unknown
That's the first thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, there's that whole other we started the carbon market in Europe and in France, we already sell more carbon market. And yeah that's countries that's another income stream. And I think this is where Canada needs to learn other to get going on and get going on it because we're we're losing we're losing and falling behind on that, that sector.

00:08:57:054 - 00:09:07:043
Unknown
So there's been some some willingness for the government to step in and help us move that piece forward on carbon. Now, you've seen like the

00:09:07:043 - 00:09:15:033
Unknown
you've seen a successful carbon markets program being adopted in Europe. Are you familiar with the Canadian carbon market. Not. Okay.

00:09:15:033 - 00:09:17:025
Unknown
it ruins my follow up question.

00:09:17:025 - 00:09:21:004
Unknown
are you guys familiar with Canada's, carbon market?

00:09:21:013 - 00:09:44:030
Unknown
And if so, what do you see as like the primary challenges to farmers entering this system right now, outside of the fact that fundamentally just is not profitable? I know I'm not overly familiar with it, and that's because there just hasn't that, at least in my understanding right now, there's not enough to kind of incentivize us to get familiar with it and do what we need to do or, you know, taking advantage of it.

00:09:44:058 - 00:09:48:042
Unknown
So we're ready. It's just like, come on, give us some,

00:09:48:042 - 00:10:04:028
Unknown
some incentive here. What does the system look like in Europe currently? So we have two main system. We have what we call the carbon credit system where you need to be certified. And so you measure you solve, test and you measure. It's your carbon test and your merging.

00:10:04:038 - 00:10:10:026
Unknown
After five years. And you see the difference and you're able to certify some credit and to sell that.

00:10:10:026 - 00:10:27:086
Unknown
So that's the main market. But it's a long time market. And you don't have money on your farm until you're five. And so other people will create another model where you are selling carbon certificates and not credits. And so the company creates certificates.

00:10:27:086 - 00:10:46:064
Unknown
There are not as strong as a credit carbon, but a system. And so they are looking at private companies that are looking at certificate to be greener and not only to compensate their emissions. It's about more about the big picture and be able to communicate about the carbon system. And with this,

00:10:46:064 - 00:10:49:085
Unknown
carbon certificates, they're able to create them every year.

00:10:49:085 - 00:11:00:088
Unknown
And you've got an income stream from the first year. So that changes the whole game. And at the same time, they're looking to be in the carbon credit market after the five, a few years.

00:11:00:088 - 00:11:07:113
Unknown
So it's to link both systems together to be able to create an income for farmers. But we are talking the funding or much carbon.

00:11:07:113 - 00:11:09:091
Unknown
You talk but we are talking at

00:11:09:091 - 00:11:32:027
Unknown
€5,200 per hectare okay. So significant. Not significant. Yes. That we're nowhere close to that in Canada. No. Not even I think by what is it by 2020 or by 2030. We're supposed to be like, I think it's 160, $470 a tonne. And but that's, that's we still have six years to go for that.

00:11:32:037 - 00:11:34:084
Unknown
it's just fundamentally not possible.

00:11:34:084 - 00:11:49:068
Unknown
Murray, do you have any thoughts? Yeah. I don't have a I have a follow the carbon market well enough here to be an expert on it. Sure. But I think when I listen to what Europe's doing, and if I look at what the U.S. is doing, they are doing some things as well.

00:11:49:078 - 00:12:01:019
Unknown
We need to we need to be paying attention to that. And I think our our governments need to think about what are other countries doing and what can we adopt from those countries rather than reinvent the wheel and

00:12:01:019 - 00:12:07:070
Unknown
we don't have time to reinvent the wheel again. We have we need to catch up and be creating the value for the farmers.

00:12:07:070 - 00:12:26:082
Unknown
Now, Guilherme, you've had the opportunity to travel to over 20 countries through your Nobel Scholar scholarship, correct? What are some practices that you've seen? Not necessarily in the carbon market. If it's in the carbon market, great. If not, that's okay that Canada or France could really be exploring or

00:12:26:082 - 00:12:27:053
Unknown
practicing.

00:12:27:053 - 00:12:31:078
Unknown
That's a long topic. Many of them know you

00:12:31:078 - 00:12:33:035
Unknown
to be short of that.

00:12:33:045 - 00:12:51:046
Unknown
If you are doing something, you need to do it well and focusing on it and really doing well. I visit many countries and there is many practice, but ones that are different than the other ones. I really push the system and really focusing on details to be great and doing something great. One of them was the use of biologicals.

00:12:51:046 - 00:13:13:050
Unknown
Brazil, for example, use a lot of biologicals, all the nutrition at the same time, and they took the old system and design the old system around it. If I'm looking in Europe, we use some biologicals, but most of the time we use them in greenhouse but not outside because we think they don't work, because we don't look at the old system and how to manage all the system.

00:13:13:075 - 00:13:25:099
Unknown
So it's one topic where we can go deeper. Another one is about nutrition management and the impact of nutrition on the quality of the crop, like storing crop for longer. Carrots,

00:13:25:099 - 00:13:40:035
Unknown
onions, garlic, any other crop, and also the impact of the nutrition on the disease and the insects. And we really see when we start to feed the plant better, we decrease the amount of disease and insect.

00:13:40:035 - 00:13:58:104
Unknown
And quite often we increase the yield at the same time. And so we are just looking at Europe, just scratching the surface of these two topics. And we can go deeper and we every time we start on it we see massive benefits. And there is many other topics.

00:13:58:104 - 00:14:03:013
Unknown
one of them is not directly on farming and not technical about farming.

00:14:03:028 - 00:14:35:092
Unknown
It's about creating a brand and setting the brand. I see last week I was in Oregon looking up at some farms and one of the farmhouse growing blueberries. Really successful farmer, good blueberry. But the market is not here and even by being really good technically is not able to reach the point where it's making money. And so by being able to create a brand around to produce and show the value of its or its your own brand, or you show the value of it to a distributor or to,

00:14:35:092 - 00:14:44:016
Unknown
a food company, but by being able to create something different, you are able to market it and have more money and then be profitable

00:14:44:017 - 00:14:45:011
Unknown
in your farming system.

00:14:45:011 - 00:14:55:011
Unknown
I feel like this might be a good direction for you. Branded your farm Maple View Farms. Can you talk about the intention behind that? yeah. So that wasn't my my name. That's been,

00:14:55:011 - 00:14:59:078
Unknown
I think the farm name for nearly 200 years now. So, yeah, my family,

00:14:59:078 - 00:15:02:077
Unknown
they started farming in Canada in 1825, so.

00:15:02:092 - 00:15:03:012
Unknown
Well,

00:15:03:012 - 00:15:22:106
Unknown
as far as branding, that's, you know, part of what we try to sell is, is, you know, the history of farming, you know, farm families, the sustainability aspect. And you know what that means, like when we're multi-generational farm, you know, obviously we're in it for the long haul. we're going to do everything we can to take care of the that soil.

00:15:22:106 - 00:15:34:018
Unknown
And that's that's something that I think doesn't get out to your, your average person walking into a grocery store these days. I think we need to do a much better job at kind of selling that story. And,

00:15:34:018 - 00:15:41:088
Unknown
you know, just educating people on how important it is that, you know, we're taking care of our farms and for what it means for future generations.

00:15:41:088 - 00:15:43:009
Unknown
Right. Can you tell me more about that?

00:15:43:009 - 00:16:04:101
Unknown
specifically the challenge of getting that to the consumer. Yeah. I think, you know, based on some of your thoughts, you know, and talk to me about, you know, what our individual farms might do differently. But I think any energy that we spend, I'm trying to communicate kind of some of these sustainability aspect of our individual farms, you know, other farms kind of see that.

00:16:04:101 - 00:16:15:033
Unknown
And, and as a whole, you know, as agriculture as a whole, as an industry here in Ontario and globally, obviously, if we can together kind of, you know, broaden that message,

00:16:15:033 - 00:16:17:049
Unknown
to your average consumer.

00:16:17:049 - 00:16:24:078
Unknown
you know, I think, I think we're going to benefit in the long haul. And that might open up doors, as far as, you know, the feasibility of carbon markets.

00:16:24:078 - 00:16:28:080
Unknown
If people see the value, then it just opens up, you know, new markets.

00:16:28:080 - 00:16:28:115
Unknown
and

00:16:28:115 - 00:16:30:105
Unknown
obviously more profitability that,

00:16:30:105 - 00:16:32:001
Unknown
helps support those,

00:16:32:001 - 00:16:43:022
Unknown
sustainability factors and to keep going on direction, like doing everything by yourself as a farmer or one people. It's very hard and time consuming. And I really see

00:16:43:022 - 00:16:52:113
Unknown
impact when farmers go together as a group and they have a voice because they're strong enough as a group to invest in someone, to have that voice and push that story.

00:16:52:113 - 00:17:02:017
Unknown
But yeah, if we are able to work as a network, as number of people, we have way more power to push the message. Absolutely, definitely.

00:17:02:017 - 00:17:23:053
Unknown
And I think there's a an opportunity, I think, to bring farmers together more. And that exactly what you're saying. And I think the for certain certain types of projects, I think a co-op system, specialized co-op system is something that can work because as if we had tried, we had set up a farmer co-op around corner store over in Sarnia.

00:17:23:063 - 00:17:34:087
Unknown
You, a few years ago. Unfortunately, it didn't go to commercialization because the technology didn't get properly funded from that. Canada trust that we had all the industry money there except the one one small envelope.

00:17:34:087 - 00:17:43:090
Unknown
But that farm co-op to me make a lot of sense because the farmers are going to be very specific around corn stover. The farmers would commit so many acres

00:17:43:090 - 00:17:45:039
Unknown
to the to the corn stover.

00:17:45:039 - 00:18:04:069
Unknown
How much control would they want to provide? And then most farmers are going to commit 100% right off the bat, but then they would go into maybe 20% of their acreage or whatever, and pay so much in the co-op. Otherwise a one time payment on on that. And then the co-op would invest in the sugar mill that we were going to build right now.

00:18:04:076 - 00:18:16:101
Unknown
So the dividends would come back to the co-op and back to the farmer. So the farmers make them getting paid for the corn stover. And then when we get a dividend the other way, and that was to me, it was a perfect scenario.

00:18:16:101 - 00:18:20:055
Unknown
and the co-op would also look after the harvesting for Stover. That's amazing.

00:18:20:055 - 00:18:30:038
Unknown
And, and transported, you know, and so I was in an awkward place to accept this one piece of funding that didn't transpire at the end, unfortunately, with our federal government.

00:18:30:038 - 00:18:48:031
Unknown
But anyway, that that to me is the type of thing that is a way to help set up some of these things that not a specific area like that specific Crawford biomass, because that you can really pinpoint to the value and show the value that's going to be created with it. And so I think,

00:18:48:031 - 00:18:50:033
Unknown
you know, having a cooperative system,

00:18:50:033 - 00:18:57:061
Unknown
like in today's type of co-ops versus the old broad based co-ops is now the kind of kind of thing we need to be looking more at

00:18:57:061 - 00:18:57:096
Unknown
the,

00:18:57:096 - 00:18:59:046
Unknown
traveling globally.

00:18:59:071 - 00:19:02:117
Unknown
How have you seen or what is the adoption of these co-ops? Doesn't look like it. It's,

00:19:02:117 - 00:19:05:091
Unknown
a trend that you're you're seeing is really building.

00:19:05:091 - 00:19:10:021
Unknown
It's pretty close in France, all over Europe. We have a lot of co-ops and

00:19:10:021 - 00:19:16:030
Unknown
you need to keep them in a certain scale. And I use it many of them I was in,

00:19:16:030 - 00:19:16:111
Unknown
in New Zealand.

00:19:16:114 - 00:19:24:002
Unknown
Other. So if you have, you need to be big enough to have a voice and to have

00:19:24:002 - 00:19:38:091
Unknown
you share on the market, but you need to keep them small enough to keep the farmers leading the co-op. And we see many example in France where the co-op are so big, so huge, and we don't know now where is the direction of it and who is leading the system.

00:19:38:091 - 00:19:43:112
Unknown
It's not the farmers they lose. It's not farmer driven. Exactly. It's not any more farmer driven. So it's where you found

00:19:43:112 - 00:19:58:054
Unknown
it's not an easy line to find, but it's you need to be big enough to have the power of a big one. But you need to keep in mind to be driven by farmers, because you need to have do that for the farmers and to drain the money for the farmers that invest in.

00:19:58:054 - 00:19:58:111
Unknown
You've got.

00:19:58:111 - 00:19:59:081
Unknown
But,

00:19:59:081 - 00:20:08:097
Unknown
one of the example is not exactly a corporate system similar. It's Zespri for the Kiwi. And so they are a group of farmer Kiwi farmers in New Zealand. And

00:20:08:097 - 00:20:21:047
Unknown
they sell that kiwi all over the world. And no they don't have enough kiwi for all the seasons. So they contract growers in the northern hemisphere to grow Kiwis to be able to have Kiwi all year long.

00:20:21:057 - 00:20:39:113
Unknown
And if you want to grow Kiwi, want a brand in the northern hemisphere, you need to pay them royalties. And all of these royalties aren't going directly as a dividend to the farmers. So by creating a brand strong enough, they are able now to have money on the dividend of the brands, not only in the produce they sell.

00:20:40:003 - 00:21:07:116
Unknown
So that's a really good example where you are able with good production, because the Zespri Kiwi, they need to be perfect in size and in taste. They paid the kiwi on dry matter contact and the dry matter is about to taste. So you need to have the better taste all your own. But by creating a really good produce, you're able to create good brands and then you're able to add produce on your brand or add more volume on that brand and make money with the brand.

00:21:08:006 - 00:21:18:067
Unknown
So it's it's really a perfect case study where the farmers are able to create value with the old system. And in a co-op or group system.

00:21:18:067 - 00:21:28:097
Unknown
Jeff, I'm curious, what do you think it would take, I guess, from a government structure or what systems need to be put in place in Canada to really see this uptake in adoption in co-op systems.

00:21:28:097 - 00:21:32:109
Unknown
So at least from my understanding, like they're they're not very prevalent. Yeah.

00:21:32:109 - 00:21:35:036
Unknown
there's certainly there are some co-ops here. But

00:21:35:036 - 00:21:38:117
Unknown
as far as government and, and what role they may play,

00:21:38:117 - 00:21:40:067
Unknown
Oh, I'm not sure. I think,

00:21:40:067 - 00:21:47:113
Unknown
you know, a lot of times this is a matter of us taking things upon ourselves as a is growers and networking and kind of building those

00:21:47:113 - 00:21:48:057
Unknown
on our own.

00:21:48:057 - 00:21:51:016
Unknown
And, you know, if, if there's some government programs,

00:21:51:016 - 00:21:54:027
Unknown
that can can promote that, that that would be great.

00:21:54:027 - 00:21:54:084
Unknown
I think that

00:21:54:084 - 00:21:57:076
Unknown
it would take us as farmers and, and,

00:21:57:076 - 00:22:07:071
Unknown
co-op basis as kind of pitching that and trying to obtain some funding. So I think we need to take it upon ourselves and can't rely on government to do it for us.

00:22:07:080 - 00:22:27:036
Unknown
I mean, that and I agree with that. I think that it has to be driven at the farm. Yeah, at the farm level and the farmer be able to see this as something that's important for them. I mean, the the old co-op systems that we had, they were almost all disappeared now, but they, they just got too big for themselves and they weren't really come out on their own late.

00:22:27:036 - 00:22:30:105
Unknown
They weren't run by farmers. Anyone of really became a cooperative,

00:22:30:105 - 00:22:33:046
Unknown
you know, their business type became

00:22:33:046 - 00:22:35:015
Unknown
no noise engine. So

00:22:35:015 - 00:22:35:096
Unknown
definitely

00:22:35:096 - 00:22:52:097
Unknown
I'd like to take a little bit of a pivot. Still focusing on the farmer. So I'm wondering where should the focus on investment be in the agriculture sector to foster both growth and sustainability? I feel like that's something that all of you have touched on in some way today.

00:22:52:097 - 00:22:58:086
Unknown
yeah. And how are you able to highlight any key areas where innovation is really driving economic benefit?

00:22:58:095 - 00:23:04:037
Unknown
for everything I see for summer months, you have to invest in one thing and only one. It's true. So

00:23:04:037 - 00:23:22:092
Unknown
because if you invest where you should be for some equipment and also. But if you invest or it's not one your investment, it's a long term investment. But if you invest in you, you will be able to have good yields and reproducible yields year after year, and after that will bring enough money to invest in something else.

00:23:22:102 - 00:23:44:099
Unknown
And I've got example of farmers at but drill for example. And we will look with not enough money to invest in the soil anymore. So we made the decision to sell some equipment to be able to reinvest in the soil, to be able to have way better leverage system for that investment is so bring money to the farmer that could buy it back and buy equipment after that.

00:23:44:109 - 00:23:45:053
Unknown
But,

00:23:45:053 - 00:23:57:056
Unknown
so there is technology and many stuff that called out, but really thinking about the system in general. And if I have one point where I will invest purposes is to create money for every single software that

00:23:57:056 - 00:24:05:076
Unknown
just I feel like there's something you can really speak to. Yeah, sure. I agree with that 100%. You know, you invest in your soil early and often and always.

00:24:05:084 - 00:24:26:100
Unknown
Then it's going to continue to, you know, boost your productivity over time. And that's just there's just some exponential gains that have come along with that. And so obviously other investment opportunities, if you've kind of got the ball rolling with it with your soil and it, it, generating extra profit, then there'll be more money there to invest in kind of long term.

00:24:26:110 - 00:24:27:050
Unknown
I think,

00:24:27:050 - 00:24:49:024
Unknown
you know, overall information technology, data management, that's going to be something that becomes even more and more important going forward too, is kind of we, you know, we're we're generating vast amounts of data on the farm. It's just a matter of kind of harnessing them and putting them into systems that, where we can get some actionable insights and then use that on our farm with data.

00:24:49:041 - 00:24:57:059
Unknown
Yeah. And from my understanding, especially in, in Canada, because the data is so segmented, it's such a challenge to

00:24:57:059 - 00:25:00:078
Unknown
draw true insights from from what's going on. What do you

00:25:00:078 - 00:25:05:102
Unknown
what do you think the ideal. We'll see how this goes. Like the ideal

00:25:05:102 - 00:25:13:027
Unknown
democratic open data system would look like in Canada, ordered doesn't have to be carried out in

00:25:13:027 - 00:25:13:075
Unknown
it.

00:25:13:090 - 00:25:14:073
Unknown
Farming systems.

00:25:14:073 - 00:25:15:035
Unknown
But I think,

00:25:15:035 - 00:25:27:051
Unknown
you know, part of the the wheat yield enhancement network that we've taken part in, we spoke about today, that's a perfect example. It's kind of funded through the grain farmers of Ontario. Now, tell us more about that. Yeah. So,

00:25:27:051 - 00:25:29:095
Unknown
you know, any grain that's sold within the province?

00:25:29:095 - 00:25:33:060
Unknown
corn, soybeans, wheat, other grains, there's fees that go towards,

00:25:33:060 - 00:25:36:042
Unknown
the Jfo and of course, CFOs.

00:25:36:052 - 00:25:38:049
Unknown
they've worked in conjunction with,

00:25:38:049 - 00:26:02:074
Unknown
the team in Michigan to establish this yield enhancement network where we're measuring everything that goes on with our wheat crops. And then, you know, benchmarking and trying to tease out some, some insight as to, you know, what, you know, what fertilizer rates, what chemical applications, what planting dates, planting rates, and what all those do for overall, productivity and profitability.

00:26:02:074 - 00:26:08:019
Unknown
And so I think that's a that's a great example of just, you know, farmer funded,

00:26:08:019 - 00:26:10:068
Unknown
research and cooperative activity.

00:26:10:068 - 00:26:19:043
Unknown
you know, if we can broaden that database or kind of scale that up across different crop species and in greater geographical,

00:26:19:043 - 00:26:25:050
Unknown
you know, areas, then, you know, I think, you know, we're getting to the point where that's going to become easier and easier.

00:26:25:059 - 00:26:26:054
Unknown
so, you know,

00:26:26:054 - 00:26:27:005
Unknown
hopefully,

00:26:27:005 - 00:26:28:096
Unknown
a sign of things to come from amazing

00:26:28:096 - 00:26:34:043
Unknown
work. I thought, you know, I think, well, I think it's pretty well covered with all this talk, both here and now.

00:26:34:043 - 00:26:43:013
Unknown
And the farmers have to be a key part of it all the way through that system. I mean, we can't ignore that which sometimes people get to do, and that shouldn't happen.

00:26:43:022 - 00:26:54:072
Unknown
I think another area was touched on briefly with you as biological. You know, one of the things I haven't done a lot of work directly with biologicals, but I'm starting to get into more discussion around those.

00:26:54:072 - 00:27:01:039
Unknown
I think we're seeing now that there's a lot of biologicals that are starting to come along that are more significant than what they used to be.

00:27:01:039 - 00:27:16:094
Unknown
You know, they're usually targeted to a certain pasture disease or something and showing results. And we need to be looking for those and and if there are some out there, make sure that we got the opportunity to test to in Canada against our our problems here and diseases and insects

00:27:16:094 - 00:27:17:044
Unknown
because,

00:27:17:044 - 00:27:18:009
Unknown
I'm hearing

00:27:18:009 - 00:27:24:079
Unknown
you know, I'm hearing more so people starting to think about biologicals as an opportunity from a farming perspective.

00:27:24:079 - 00:27:47:015
Unknown
If there's a problem out there, what can we get? What's out there that'll help us just deal with this problem from a biological perspective spectrum. And I think through history where we're hearing the industry here in the large industries today, the big chemical industries are are starting to have a biological line within their portfolios of products, too. So I think it's something we need to look more at in Canada.

00:27:47:024 - 00:27:48:022
Unknown
You guys have any thoughts on that?

00:27:48:022 - 00:27:49:050
Unknown
If not, it's say, okay,

00:27:49:050 - 00:28:01:107
Unknown
that's amazing. I don't want to take up too much more of your time. You guys have been so generous so far, but I would like to give each of you the opportunity to talk to our audience, to talk about something that's going on in your life, something you're really excited about.

00:28:01:116 - 00:28:04:106
Unknown
in the ag sector that you think people should know about.

00:28:04:106 - 00:28:06:087
Unknown
Jeff, if you're ready, I'd like to start with you.

00:28:06:087 - 00:28:08:082
Unknown
yeah. Some, I don't know, I think,

00:28:08:082 - 00:28:13:064
Unknown
yeah. Overall just. Yeah, I think I spoke a bit about it today. What we're seeing is,

00:28:13:064 - 00:28:21:099
Unknown
kind of our, our productive land, the land that we own, the land that we really put a lot of investment in and a lot of focus on soil health.

00:28:22:001 - 00:28:28:093
Unknown
We're seeing the the yields on that ground compared to maybe some firms that we just acquired or just started renting.

00:28:28:093 - 00:28:41:098
Unknown
the yield increase that we're seeing on the land that we've been farming for a while and continually investing in terms of soil health, those, you know, yield increases are just way higher than what we're seeing on kind of some of the new land.

00:28:41:099 - 00:28:49:039
Unknown
So I think we're really learning that, you know, some of the investments that we made in soil health through cover crops, you know,

00:28:49:039 - 00:28:51:064
Unknown
other things that affect soil structure,

00:28:51:064 - 00:28:59:066
Unknown
years ago, ten years ago, we're reaping the benefits of those now. So that kind of goes back to the conversation we had, a little bit earlier. Right.

00:28:59:091 - 00:29:05:097
Unknown
Awesome. You know, it's just continual exponential growth over time. So. Yeah.

00:29:05:097 - 00:29:06:089
Unknown
Awesome. Thank you.

00:29:06:089 - 00:29:24:035
Unknown
something specific, I don't know, but I will speak about my trip and my new field journey, of course. So I'm halfway at the moment. I still have almost a year to travel. And so last year I was 20 countries. And the idea is to look at fossil fuel free farming and adding value.

00:29:24:036 - 00:29:37:118
Unknown
So after every trip, I do a small webinar to look and to share information and the idea. So this show I'm going to Africa, India and China mainly, and many other countries on that direction and on the way. So

00:29:37:118 - 00:29:52:007
Unknown
there is a lot of different topics that I'm looking for in that research and new fields really. But if people are interesting and want to look deeper, they need to follow the journey and see what's happened.

00:29:52:017 - 00:29:59:054
Unknown
One step by one. And agent that will publish a report looking at everything I found. So if people are interested in

00:29:59:054 - 00:30:03:116
Unknown
keep you updated, check it out and we'll be providing all that information to check out. What,

00:30:03:116 - 00:30:10:047
Unknown
Jeff Kiam and Marie are up to in in the description below so you guys can take a look at that.

00:30:10:056 - 00:30:16:055
Unknown
And finally, Murray. Yeah, I guess my, my, I've been in agriculture for,

00:30:16:055 - 00:30:22:031
Unknown
I guess, all my career. And so since universities which, I'm 78 now so I

00:30:22:031 - 00:30:25:034
Unknown
knew that for years that few years. But,

00:30:25:034 - 00:30:29:010
Unknown
I mean, I've been a lot of changes over that time. And most of my work and career have been

00:30:29:010 - 00:30:34:077
Unknown
on an Ontario in Saskatchewan, those back and forth between those two provinces, a few times,

00:30:34:077 - 00:30:36:065
Unknown
my home province is green is New Brunswick.

00:30:36:065 - 00:30:40:023
Unknown
But, everybody worked there after university.

00:30:40:023 - 00:30:41:082
Unknown
it's an interesting,

00:30:41:082 - 00:31:00:003
Unknown
cycle how agriculture has moved forward. And I think, you know, maybe moved in some ways and full circle in certain things. But certainly I know my farm. I don't, farmer, but I got some very excellent farmers. I do look after that. And, you know, things like you mentioned early rotational crops and then cover crops coming in.

00:31:00:013 - 00:31:20:023
Unknown
I mean, they've started those probably 10 or 15 years ago and you start seeing that impact now, but sometimes it takes a little bit of patience. You can just try it once and then walk away from it. So you got to kind of work at them and and see those things come forward. I think in the biotech, biotechnology and biologicals area and by our economy, we've got a lot of work to do here in Canada.

00:31:20:023 - 00:31:23:059
Unknown
We're, we're we're falling behind a little bit. I worry about,

00:31:23:059 - 00:31:40:075
Unknown
and we need to catch up and create some opportunities for farmers that we can move, move forward in a commercialization perspective and create that value, add it, and then always have to be value added if there's no value. And what's that from an economic perspective. And and it's not probably worth doing.

00:31:40:075 - 00:31:54:014
Unknown
But sometimes it takes a while to see that value. I, like you mentioned cover crops. You don't see the first year you put a cover crop and you don't see that benefit. Next year it's probably going into 5 or 10 years down the road when you start seeing those benefits. So understand the, you know, patients with some things.

00:31:54:014 - 00:32:07:071
Unknown
So yeah that's perfect. No ten about starts and ends with soil. Yeah. Gentlemen thank you guys so much for your time. Really appreciate it. We still have a whole day and a half of the conference. So we're going to have a lot more interviews coming up.

00:32:07:071 - 00:32:10:028
Unknown
guys, thank you so much for being here. It's been a pleasure.

00:32:10:037 - 00:32:20:003
Unknown
we touched on just a few of the questions, which I think just speaks to, the knowledge you guys have and your ability to to connect. So I really appreciate,

00:32:20:003 - 00:32:24:069
Unknown
your time and everything I guys today. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. Thanks. You guys,