The Soil Network

Making No-Till Work with Livestock & Manure: Swain Beef’s Honest Approach | Crop Chats

• Ian Virtue • Season 2 • Episode 2

Share episode

Send us a text

In this Crop Chats episode, Ian McDonald (Crop Innovation Specialist, OMAFRA) visits Swain Beef near Blackstock, Ontario, for a candid conversation with Scott Swain about making no-till systems work on a mixed farm with livestock, manure, and highly variable soils.

Scott doesn’t claim to have it all figured out—but what he offers is an honest look at what’s worked, what hasn’t, and how their team is constantly adapting. From using RTK for precision, to selectively incorporating tillage, to dealing with the challenges of manure management in no-till systems, this episode is packed with real-world insights for farmers trying to strike the right balance.

🔑 Topics Covered:
• The realities of no-till with livestock
• Managing manure and soil compaction
• Equipment decisions: when to hire and when to invest
• Cover crops: lessons from 20+ years
• Tillage as a tool—not a rule
• Patience, planning, and knowing your window

🔗 More from the Series:
Watch the full Winning with No-Till playlist:
👉 https://www.youtube.com/@ONfieldcrops/featured?utm_source=osn&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=winning_with_no_till

🌱 Learn more about the Ontario Soil Network:
👉 https://ontariosoil.net/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=crop_chats_series

Thanks for tuning in to the Soil Network Podcast!

If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a fellow farmer or agri-curious friend. Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss a conversation about farming smarter, growing better, and building stronger communities.

🌾 Stay Connected:
📢 Explore more stories, events, and resources through our Linktree:
👉 linktr.ee/ontariosoilnetwork

Let’s keep growing—together. See you next time!

1:

Well yeah, because there's just reasons not to no-till, and there's reasons to no-till if you're capable of doing it. I think the no-till world says to producers that if you're no-till, you have to be a no-tiller. And yeah, and with no till working not in the dust all day, that is a great experience.

2:

Hello and welcome to this episode of Winning with No-Till. This time we're at Blackstock Ontario with Scott Swain. Thanks for joining us Scott in this conversation and we're just here to talk about the enterprise of the farm and you're unique in the group in that you're the one with livestock and so we'll bring manure into the conversation in a no-till context which will be interesting to the audience. So if we can start off just talk about who's currently involved in

1:

Yeah, sure. So on this farm we have myself as full-time employee, one full-time employee, Chris McVeigh, My dad that's retired from the farm but he also would be a part-time employee on his demands. And my wife would be very seasonal. Whether she's involved in equipment or the livestock side of her operation.

2:

and the history of your journey to no-till. When did you start and and what were those sort of steps that got you to?

1:

Yes, when I came home from school or University of Guelph, my dad was farming part-time and it was a small amount of acres with old equipment and we didn't have a lot of tillage equipment at our accessibility level. to make any time and I started renting more. and we partnered. and then I bought a no-till corn planter from a... And he was my mentor on helping us decide that we were going to go towards as much note to learn.

2:

Okay, so then, you know, what were those sort of steps from that point?

1:

today. Yeah, so I work with a couple of consultants in the industry, and one had really advised me to go to the NoTill Conference down in the U.S. And I found that was a real good of experience on how to get your head wrapped around that NoTill is the only one. arm. And I followed that path for a while, until we found what fit best for what worked for us. It was a bumpy journey, we made a lot of mistakes, or I made a lot of mistakes. taking the same mistakes, trying to no-till in the same conditions where we were planning. And yeah, that was, it was a real positive part of our experiences and a bit negative. And I think we just kept adapting and figuring out what we were doing. and and it's

2:

today. So you had said something to me Scott last year, probably late in the fall, that your comment was essentially I understand why people till. Can you maybe sort of--

1:

on that a little bit? Yeah, so even this year of 2024 we had a very wet spring and I've been putting myself in trouble before where we lost our patience and we get in towards the middle of May and haven't got many. in the ground. And the reason we were hesitant on planting is we were experiencing, if the ground's too wet, smearing or, or opening that furrow, closing it improperly. And then the ground dries out from a wet spring to a dry spring. And we're looking. seeing the seeds. We were running out of patience and in some of our wetter land, we just knew we had to find a way to dry. And because we have livestock as well, some of our manure applied land, we're just not comfortable always moving that trash on top of the soil. with our planter. So we hire a neighbor to do some quick till. one past quick till, and we know we're going to get just the best out of our plan that we can get. And generally, I'm going to say in the last three years, we would work towards that manureed land or to some tillage for the first 20% of our land and then extend into more ranging land where there's a lot more elevation. steeper hills and the last 80 or 70 percent we would know.

2:

I'm talking mostly corn. So we'll get to that a little bit more as we go through here. Can you talk about the soil-to-mortar?

1:

that you're dealing with? Yeah, so we vary everywhere from brick sand to sandy loam to heavier clay. Where we get, we farm some land that we own on Oak Ridge Moraine. And part of that farm is so sandy that we don't even generally grow wheat there because it would just dry out in the month of July. We would even change our rotation and just corn, soybeans, or a cover

2:

on it so we'll end up putting some tile on it. And when you say you put tile in rented land, do you have a longer term lease agreement with those landowners because of putting the tile in?

1:

Some of our landlords have given us written agreements. given as verbal agreements and a good friend and model. that's also a mentor of... A cashcropper told me probably 10 years ago that if he tiled every farm he rented, when

2:

have been a lot better off today than. So this soil is from that field up on number seven. that you tiled half of it and the lower part I guess which was the... and then planted the more steep part of that. And so that's sort of...

1:

nice sandy loam soil in there. - Yeah, so that was a McGill farm. and they had that farming pasture I'm gonna say for probably. 10 years before we. They rented that farm. They just were changing the farm. lifestyle and it became available. And, yeah, so we've only done, we only did a little bit of tillage this spring on that farm down on the lower side of it. You can see where it was quite wet and anywhere to higher land we would just continue to no till. And it's so steep that anywhere we do work,

2:

the hills would have significant washouts. So when you look at this field today... and stuff, you know, did you do the right thing? Because the problem is in this farming game, because of the weather difference from year to year, the one thing that's right for our field this year, not necessarily right for the field next year. And so like, how do you make those decisions?

1:

what gets tilled and what doesn't get tilled. - Yeah, so I guess to go back to the question you had before. Is that, do I see a reason for tillage? I really do. Especially if you're like for us, if we're scaling in size, because I think the window of planting is the month of May, and we're vulnerable to the calendar, whether we like it or not. And if the land and the sun's not, the heat's not drying up the land ourselves, that planting in that mid or first to mid or end of May. We will these sandy soils, sandy to

2:

generally will produce a crop. mixes and what the rotation is for that that sort of.

1:

the no-till and reduced-till system. Yeah, so we're a corn-soybean-wheat rotation with a cover crop after our wheat. That would be our main four rotation right now. We have interceded a lot of corn acres, silage especially, with cover crops. We aren't anymore just because we're we just didn't see the long-term. benefit for all that work that was involved. Um, so a lot of our sides ground we just go in and plant a cover crop after if, if the season allows us to. Um, but with the no-till, one of our biggest, um, key things that I think we, we did that allows us to, to manage that system best was the RTK on our tractor because we have the RTK it, it, whether it's

2:

the row just allows us to deal with the trash. And then, cover crop and goes back into soybeans.

1:

corn would follow back into soybeans. Correct. Yeah, yeah. And we can usually see, especially like that's one of the reasons that I would say no till isn't just the perfect system for us is the soybeans usually can be more advanced in that silage ground opposed to the corn stalks. Right. Where we get that sun in the heat doesn't mean we change our practices. I think just because we huge investment in intelligence equipment. We're just trying to keep those costs low. on, but it's in the feedlot scenario. Do you have forages? We do. Yeah. We would have, I'm going to say, anywhere from 60 to 80 acres of alfalfa grass hay. We just have taken any of our marginal pieces of dirt that we're not interested in getting the big equipment in and see it down. So we haven't rotated that through the rest of our cropping system. for us for the introduction of our livestock. So we just like to...

2:

I talked to many no tillers, they are into it because of, you know, there's the tangibles, so the costs and stuff like that, but there's the intangibles. And you sort of mentioned, you know, cutting back erosion on your slopes. But is there sort of a philosophy of why Swain beef is into?

1:

tillage system that they're into, which is primarily no-tillage. Yeah. So the number one reason we were heading into the no-till world was for... investment reasons. to buy a planter and we end a tractor to scale, to start scaling up our operation, and we didn't have. to invest in all that good tillage equipment at the same time. So and either when my dad was was farming part-time or I was farming part-time we didn't necessarily have the manpower to be doing both jobs same time. So now that I farm full time and he's retired it we keep our operation I'd say fairly tight so or someone else would be the seed tender guy or the fertilizer tender guy. to Shuffle Man for repairs and that's been a great system for us. Can we talk about the cover? sort of when did you start into cover crops relative to when you started no tilling? Yeah, so cover crops started I would say when I spent my first year down in Indiana at a no-till conference. I don't know if it was close to 20 years ago when it was going gang bust that in that southern part of the US and they were doing it to conserve moisture. That was, I remember those conversations and those presentations. And I really believe that we were going to potentially go into drier and drier seasons and we were looking have that biomass to hold that moisture. longer and longer. And yeah, so it was we were planting green and, and doing everything that the presentation said it worked great, it was amazing. worked, but it didn't always work the way we were expecting it. You know, we just didn't have enough experience. And I think all that stuff can work and work very well. Just we didn't know when to apply and when not to apply it and how to address those wetter soils and dry soils and what are would be of what that crop's going to look like and we're always adapting. When we remove a crop from it, especially wheat, or we used to grow barley, if we go crop into that field. and graze it, we would be able to get not only spread that manure for free, but get that interaction of that soil biology working from the grazing activity. I have a lot of neighbors in our cow-calf operators and do fantastic job with pasture management and I think I've learned.

2:

lot from them, and that's what we've been trying to do, especially on our home farm here that we're on.

1:

Is it a recipe or is it a very simple mixture and has it changed over time? Yeah, I guess so. We used to focus on cereal rye and I would struggle with no tilling corn back into cereal rye, especially if it wasn't desiccated early in the fall, and that was a frustrating process for me. So now we would still use some cereal rye but a lot of oats, tillage radish for the stuff like that. Anything that's, uh, easily to be eaten, or-- break down quickly. And where in the system to cover crops fit for you like after wheat for sure? Wheat's the easiest and that's when we generally have the most time and then right after we harvest. go in and plant. whatever we have left, whether it's even leftover soybeans or whatever and, uh, something living on the ground. Yeah. Interseeding corn and soybeans. I just, it's just, it's just not for us. Our sprayers are busy. We're kind of looking for more downtime in the summer. And when do you terminate the cash crop or the cover crops? Do they overwinter at all? Yeah. So we've overwintered a lot of our especially on our home farm where we're going to have livestock out there for the winter. And now I'm in a split position where 50% of the cover crops we would spray out in the fall and 50% we would spray out in the spring. And just, just, just to keep that we're always looking for those those wheat fields to go in with the planter first. So I always had a challenge of had challenges with just the cover crop is too too green. and that hasn't been a great experience with corn.

2:

experience with soybeans. Okay, so let's talk about the manure a little bit because that's what's, you know. Most no-tillers do not deal with... at all. And so how do you handle?

1:

the system and what benefit is it giving to you? Yeah, so it can be a great experience or a terrible experience for us. And our challenge with manure is we've hired a lot of our manure spreading down the past. And it's not necessarily operator error. It's just the way it goes is you get these masses of piles of manure in the field. And when you add them up, they're right now. It's going very well since we invest in some of our equipment again or so.

2:

And what portion of your crop nutrients do you think you're getting out of your manure? And I'm assuming it's not just the manure of the--

1:

You've had manure on those acres for many years. Yeah. So our experience that we've kind of come to an agreement of is that our manure does not give us a direct nitrogen, phosphorus or potash kick within that season. We're more likely just to get some nitrogen and nitrogen. And because that's variable, we could get five pounds that year or 25 pounds that year. our corn fertilizer consistent and use that as a perk or an advantage. Our corn, per program we do a split application on all of our corners. acres anyways. So.

2:

Our manure goes on our best producing land. And I think that's why we don't tend to run out of nitrogen. And so just explain again why that tillage sits there. So why did you make the decision to work the ground up at the Highway 7 farm?

1:

Yeah, so we worked that farm and we worked our home farm and then we were also in a position where we had to put some corn on corn. And actually, that farm was for sale. So I'll kind of swing back to that. And I think when we're in a no-till position for a long period of time, I do believe that nutrient stays in that top part of the soil and takes a long time to grow. way down. So in a corn on corn situation, I think we see a benefit from some tillage in a and getting that nutrients to where we want, as well. It's going to be a dry year. But going back to your question, we decided to work a home farm, one, if we have a lot of hoof impacts. So if the weather hasn't been cold enough and there's a lot of imprints, and we're just not sure our planter is going to get even seed to soil contact or depth control. If the manure piles are staggered across the we know we're sandy loam soil then we'll hire a quick till command and get a

2:

going. And do you regret that lack of patience or is it the right decision or I guess it depends year to year?

1:

Yeah, so no, I don't because and like I said, we're. we're size of scale, what you don't plant in the second week of April you'll be planting the first week of June. So, I think that's a balance and I know. our window of what we're capable of. we need to work in the month of May. So talk about this implement that you have to come in to do that. Yeah, so this is Mellatheb Farms quick disc. We also use Kenny Down from Deesboro Farms, the two of them, depending on whether we're at the South end of the concession, or the township, or the North end. And yeah, they both have quick tills. That one's 20 feet, and Kenny's is 30. across farm worthy. for 15 years that tillage would really level out the soil and smooth it out. Yeah, really.

2:

happy with them. And you think you're losing the sort of no-till effect when you add...

1:

this tillage every now and again? I don't think so. I just, I just, uh, I think the longer we've been involved with no till, uh, the more we know we have to adapt to what's coming towards us. And I was, I think the no till world to producers that if you're no-tiller, you have to be a no-tiller. But I don't think that's the way we're ever going to look at it because... And I don't think that... way to look at it. Yeah, because there's just reasons not to no-till and there's reasons to no-till if you're capable of doing it. And if your equipment's worn out, then you can't no-till. Right, I think that was the biggest, another learning curve that we learned is, if new discs and we don't have good bushings and our. isn't rebuilt, then it's not going to do what we're adding.

2:

So in the tillage side of things you have neighbors locally that can help you out. equipment. What is the equipment that you need to own, and it has to be top-notch, that makes the no-till system work for you?

1:

Yeah, just a planter. Really? Now how important is the sprayer in the context of the system? Yeah, I guess sorry. So a planter and a sprayer. Yeah. So having a self-preserve. Well, the propelled sprayer has been a game changer for us because we can spray on time adequately, and multiple times. short period of time and you know everything gets desiccated or burned down either pre-plant or within planting.

2:

you get the soybeans planted with this unit here and then your cover crops you get... use your own.

1:

Yes, so actually, so that that's the Melthebs unit, they would plant a percentage of our wheat. Spring Grove would plant some of our cover crops and then we have an old drill that we're using. would plant a percentage of our wheat and all... or a percentage of our cover crops, we'll run the drill when we know. But all of our soybeans are planted in 30 inch rows. So our corn planter planter... plants all of our soybeans. Okay. And so we don't plant anything. in seven and a halfs.

2:

wheat. And the self propelled sprayer is

1:

of a game changer in terms of making the system work? Yeah we've been really lucky. I've got a couple of neighbors on that that's a case sprayer. I think that would be our fourth case sprayer we bought new, that were a third, a third and a third and we've either operated them ourselves or one of our employees would operate them and rotate through that machine and we have a second New Holland sprayer with a fourth partner and Yeah, it's just giving us-- ability of covering all of our acres and our motto was if we don't plant or we don't harvest it, we don't spread. And the combine, how important is the combine vis-a-vis sort of residue management setting you up for a no-till in the next crops? Yeah, so this is a 5088 case combine. We've had it for I think four seasons. Nothing extreme.

2:

100% of our, well, sorry, 95% of our straw for bedding. So we don't blow a lot back on. work with my current planting equipment. So if you're going out to buy a new planter or a new Do you think that that is?

1:

unit because you've got significant amount of no tilling in the operation, then you would buy if you were straight conventional tillage? No, I don't think so. I just I have not seen the difference. I think all these planters have the capability of cutting, cutting well if the discs are not wore out or the closing wheels, you may be putting an aftermarket closing wheel on or a trash. which house how particularly.

2:

but I really think any planner is capable of doing it as long as it's well maintained. And we talked about the equipment key components of the system. What are these sort of other pieces of the management that is critical to making the no-till system work? We talked about residue management a little bit. You talked about equipment setup and maintenance, crop rotation, cover crops. What about this whole thing? timing and patience. Um, you, you seem to indicate you struggle with that a little bit. If you get into the middle of Maine, you haven't been able to do anything.

1:

Talk about that a little bit. Yeah, so moisture content in the soil is very important and the more seminars or no-till courses I take, they talk patience, patience, patience. And I'm learning that from some of my neighbours that are fantastic farmers and their patience is unbelievable. And I'm not as patient as some of them. And when you get enough, I don't have enough experience, but I think as we're getting more experience, we know what our window is. And I think that means.

2:

we're if we're planting too late we don't have big enough equipment and I think that's what we would adjust for but right now where we are we're we can manage that. in terms of, yeah, if I don't get it in on the... but I get it in on the 25th of May, it's not going to make that much difference to my overall yield. Do you buy into that or do you think that that... Because again, one problem that's always been out there is that the whole idea about planting timeliness had... is possible when the soil is fit. And the last part of that seemed to fall off of the radar for many people for many years. Yeah, I would agree.

1:

you, I'm no expert in genetics or seed varieties as far as that goes, but I definitely am seeing our yields or our maturity of our, our, our chromatis maturing much quicker in the window that we are growing in. I think climate change has also had an impact on that. Right? We're, we're, we're generally have more frost-free days and I'm going to be

2:

saying that we don't have a frost in early September this year, but we tend to get that extended season, so our seed wrap is pushing us into longer varieties as well. We talked about residue management, I just have these pictures. This is the wheat field outside the yard here, and you combine it, and I sort of looked at where the combine was, buying wasn't. And so you can see... left side of that picture a lot less chaffiness than sort of right in front of us. And then when I went over to the Javi part, it-- like heavily there, but that drill that you're using to put the cover crops in and it's still early.

1:

that doesn't seem to hinder you very much. I think it's an advantage so yeah because our combine doesn't have great trash control or fine control the cover crop is almost a pass a tillage right as we're breaking that soil and it's replanting and as that crop emerges it's breaking that open and then the allowing the insects to... come up and get some soil contact and it's been an advantage. So I think maybe that's our...

2:

the Combine Win Row. this path. And you talked about a little bit in the conversation we've had so far, some of the hurdles that you have to think about in terms of notes. or reduced till and the common ones are fertilizer management. I get the stratification, delayed planting, slower emergence, uneven crops and even soil compaction.

1:

things that you've come up against? Are there other hurdles that you just want to make people aware of as they look to explore? Maybe following a path where it's less tillage? Yeah, so I think fertilizer for us is very important to go inner 2x2 if we can. And I understand why people don't, right? For sizeability and but for us, it's worked very well. And the last times we have to hire someone to apply for or have someone spread fertilizer. We know how much we're putting down, we know where it is, and all of our crops tend to respond very Very happy and especially sandy loam soil where we're really low in magnesium and potash. We're trying to concentrate as best band we can. Going to slow emergence, uneven crops, soil compaction. I think all those factors are usually causing no till by planting too soon when it's too wet. And we've got soil compaction down here on the list.

2:

What's intrigued me about talking to the no-till guys is for guys that in many cases have to be less concerned about compaction because unworked grass. equipment better, you seem to be even more conscious of soil compaction than the ant. because you don't want to have to go and fix some problem that has been driven down deep. Yeah, like I'm just looking at these new tires that you put on the combine.

1:

Yes. Yeah, I think we just know from the... that's teaching us that compaction has such a long impact and can be devastating for a better part of a decade that we just can't afford to make those mistakes. And I think that's as much as harvesting in the fall or spreading manure in the spring, right? That's spreading manure in the spring is just something we really try to avoid unless we need to move some, some yard, or waste just to-- stock or clean up some workspace, but it's, I think as long as we make a good plan, then we can avoid a lot of those scenarios.

2:

is with the... You can say that field again on number seven. not some not to. And the knot tilt is on the flatter ground, and the tilt is, sorry, the knot tilt is on the upper ground and such. When you go in with the combine, are you going in with the sprayer? Do you feel that difference? - In the field? - In the field. - In the soil type? - Yes, like, are you more susceptible to, you know, cutting deeper with the combine and stuff like that? - Yeah, especially if it was so Chris, the sprayer operator, if he's going into heavily tilled soil,

1:

that machine will not touch a plant on either side. And so it's just far more stable. You know, it's a far more pleasurable job. to. And with no-till, working not in the dust all day, that's the problem.

2:

Great experience. Yeah, nobody's really talked about that. That's true. Yeah where you're not Is your equipment in general cleaner working whatever operation you're doing on no-till? Oh for sure yeah absolutely okay I would say most of our stuff would stay a lot cleaner. Okay so in this have you know they struggled to come up with any place that they're losing. We control no. I don't think we have had any. I'm going to actually, uh, run through it. I don't know if it's going to be a good idea, but I'm going to say that we're going to be looking at the no-till. You're going to be looking at the no-till, you're going to be looking at the no-till. And I think that's a good way to put it.

1:

and say, I think our weed control is much better because we're earlier and we're using. where he's only ãŒã‚“ã°ã‚Œ back about the deed and then are targeting those problem weeds. We're not waiting. And I think that's very important for us. We're using a desk it and whether we're using extend or pre emergent that if we're not getting good control and in that emerging corn, we go back and it's not even a question that we just. We're ahead of it, which is mean it a I say a big impact on We know we're trying to keep that critical weed free period clean. Okay. wetter crops, as arm crops maturing. than what you would expect from a human being. really know. I'm gonna say I don't think so. I think there's a window where I those crops will finish and the only time I would say that's happening is if we were pushing that element of wet soils at planting, then we're going to see that weak germination where it's uneven. If we hit it proper or if we hit it timing right, if we're patient, I think we can have.

2:

success has the feel beside it. A lot of non no-tillers really don't like the looks in that first few weeks after it emerges and such. But the no tillers that I talked to say we don't worry about that part of the season at all.

1:

combine gets in there is all that matters. Yeah. Yeah. And I do an uneven crop doesn't change itself, in my opinion. And I would see that in the combine and I'm not, I'm not saying those guys aren't correct, but if the crop doesn't emerge and especially a corn crop, it doesn't usually fix itself. And I don't really even mean emerges, I just mean, if you look at a soybean field.

2:

or like up to your knees. can look the no-till one, you always can tell the difference. But that is always, very seldom is that indicative of a big yield difference. Very true. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think you're right. Interesting. Okay, so, and again, your system is different in that the livestock is in there, and you're... turn them into these different soils and get a little bit of tillage in there to get that season started if you need it. Where are you winning with this?

1:

Yeah, so as I think this through. One of the great experiences we're having is we don't have multiple people in one time and that generally can cause headaches or breakdowns or restriction of manpower. So if we have a sprayer and a planter running, then sprayer is operating or the planter is operating. So we're self-contained. So Chris can do his job can do my job and we're not worried about going to help an employee fix something that's above and beyond what they can do. And that allows us to focus on what we're doing and get it done. And I think it really allows us to concentrate on keeping that window of planning window really short.

2:

you back to sort of full conventional type of a system. Ah, full no.

1:

more tillage would be if we were to increase in size. If we had way more to do and a smaller window and farm more marginal land that was wetter, I think some of that land, one past tillage, they can go they, you're able to systemize. system that I like I see some neighbors that are huge farmers and do a great job until they know they can go in that field plan two days. And it's just, it's, they're capable of doing so much. And like last question,

2:

and we're almost at the end here. Are there any next steps in your operation?

1:

to see you changing the sort of footprint and the way you farm right now? Yeah, I think instead of investing in equipment like tillage, we would partner with somebody, or if we can't hire them, then I think because if we're only going to use tillage in a small fraction of our operation, we would try and bridge that with someone else that. It would be a good fit for them and good fit for us. If we're going to scale larger, then I think bigger planter, bigger combine, and a bigger sprayer. Those would be the three things we would find.

2:

on. to others that will be taking the chance to watch these series in terms of, you know, what you should start with if you're thinking about a...

1:

boringness. Yeah, I don't think I can advise anybody what's, what's right and wrong. That's for sure. Because we're just still holding our head above water. of time. Which is interesting too, Scott, because you say you've been doing this for over 20 years. There's a lot to this. I think there's just a lot to the whole industry. Yeah, we aren't better farmers than any of our neighbors and I think we learn from them every year. And we're in an area where I think a lot of them are sharing a lot of information with us, which has been a great place. But yeah, what I think the... Yeah, like we control patience. and listen to it you know. job or doing if they're willing. share their information, it's probably right. - And somebody--

2:

it by just trying to take a field of their own with their old regular conventional planter and doing that. Is that the way to go or would they be better off to try and rent that job done by somebody that and no till so that the equipment is right. because that farmer is helping them make the decisions. It's kind of hard to go cold turkey. conventional till a conventional planter and just drop it in until ground. Maybe both. I don't think there's any.

1:

you wouldn't try. Like there's enough information out there. I don't think it's that complicated. As long as your equipment is capable of cutting a trench and closing a trench and you can measure your seed depth that's about it. Good. Okay. Well Scott on behalf of those that will take the opportunity to see this.

2:

episode. Thanks very much for contributing. Thanks for letting me see... around in the last... how the farming side of it.