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Generations of No-Till on the Bay | Crop Chats (Part 1)

• Ian Virtue • Season 2 • Episode 6

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What happens when you mix three generations of farmers, waterfront clay soils, a serious focus on soil health, and a no-nonsense approach to no-till? You get the Kaiser family farm.

In this first half of our two-part deep dive, we sit down with Eric, Max, and Rob Kaiser at their farm near Napanee, Ontario—right on the shores of Hay Bay. From their early days of acquiring fragmented land to now running a full no-till and livestock-integrated operation, the Kaisers walk us through how their system evolved, why they ditched tillage without looking back, and how they manage everything from manure to multi-species cover crops.

You'll hear stories about:

  • How they reclaimed and restructured fragmented farmland
  • Why manure management is more than just nutrients—it's about timing, tools, and community
  • The trade-offs and evolution from strawberries to sweet corn
  • What it really takes to maintain soil structure on challenging terrain

👨‍🌾 “We didn’t try no-till. We just did it.”

🔄 This is Part 1 of a 2-part conversation. Part 2 drops next week—don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss it!

🎧 Listen, learn, and walk away with practical insights for any scale of operation.

Crop Chats is a collaborative video and podcast series between the Ontario Soil Network and Ian McDonald (OMAFA). Watch the full video on YouTube or listen on your favourite podcast platform.

🌱 Watch the full series on YouTube: youtube.com/@SoilNetwork
🌾 Discover more from OMAFA: youtube.com/@ONfieldcrops/videos

Thanks for tuning in to the Soil Network Podcast!

If you enjoyed this episode, share it with a fellow farmer or agri-curious friend. Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss a conversation about farming smarter, growing better, and building stronger communities.

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Let’s keep growing—together. See you next time!

1:

We knew it would work, we knew the planter would do it. There isn't a planter made today that wouldn't do it. And I always say, if you can no-till Naphthene clay, you can no-till anything. You kind of have to not constrain yourself to a label too much, and not let it be a gospel that you, thou shalt never put any sort of tillage into the field, but it's a very strong guideline. I mean, I started heading for no-till 30 years before we did it, because I could see that we had to do something different, and I just had to figure out what and how.

2:

Hello and welcome to another episode of Winning with No-Till. And today we're at Kaiser Lake Farm south of Napinney on the Hay Bay and I've got Eric and Rob and Max with me to talk about their adventures in no-till farming and they are a little bit of a twist from the other ones in the series in that they bring livestock into the equation and we'll talk about that and maneuver management

3:

Yeah, I'm actually one of my latest buzz lines lately is I'm the son of a farmer I'm a farmer and I'm a father of a farmer, but actually there's there's one more who's not here So so dad's part of the operation My wife Jessica is part of the bookkeeping and whatnot and Robbie and his sister Molly Bath are involved in the day-to-day operations We have a full-time hired person, and we have some summer students that help out every summer, too. We call upon some professionals when it gets into electrical work. The chicken handling, of course, there's crews that help us out with that. But certainly in the fields, it's us, and not much else.

2:

And one of the unique things about... out.

3:

These were old lots developed, you know. at the time of settling. So they're 100 acre lots, but we're surrounded by waterfront. And the County Road basically goes around our perimeter. And anything that's on the water side of the County Road is a waterfront lot, a lot of homes. There's over 200 homes within a mile of the edge of the farm anywhere. So having said that, the farms were not very attractive for farming in the previous generations, and we were able to acquire all of our land into one contiguous block.

2:

And Eric, can you talk about that a little bit? Because you're the one that sort of pulled that.

1:

- Well, of course, the basis is that the loyalists came here 240 years ago, and they spent the first 100 years clearing the land, mostly old land. for us. Over the second hundred years an interesting phenomenon happened in that all, without exception, of the smart kids and eventually all the kids left. So there were no family members to take over the family farms. When I arrived here 55 years ago, whenever a neighbor wanted to retire and quit, there was nobody to take over the family farm, and they said, "Oh, we'll just go up the road and see that dummy. He'll buy anything." And I did. And so For the next 50 years I and we spent every cent we could beg, borrow, or steal and buried it. And that was the step one in making this stuff farmable.

2:

And so Eric, one thing that you and I have talked about in the past, and you know, Max, we've had the...

1:

conversation too is you're not doing so much now, but still a little bit. But before you had strawberries and other things on the farm that allowed you to better interact with the public around. Maybe talk about that a little bit because that's so important these days. Well, there were two reasons for that. One was we're part of a community and we did for a number of years, we had community barn dances here. The strawberries were a reaction primarily

2:

corn but so you're not really into that now does it make sense to go back into that now with the way the the area is changing again you must be getting a turnover of yeah all the people along the lake the problem was

1:

strawberries was that. demographics changed. And so people no longer picked large quantities to freeze and make jam. They wanted to get both husbands and wives worked and they had kids, so they had summer activities that required time and attendance and soccer and baseball and softball and so on. And so it just slowly died after, I don't know, we did it for close to 20 years. the traffic got less and the amount picked got less and less and it began. became non-viable. Would that change now? No, we're not in a location where we could get pickers easily. Right. We're too far from town and so I Don't see it as an opportunity to be a commercial to be a viable Commercially, we still do sweet corn. That's mostly Max's doing and sell sweet corn at the road, but it's not a big item but but contribute to the.

2:

to our presence.

3:

- Well, a lot of that started before my influence for sure. Back in the early 80s, Dad had figured out pretty easily that the more activity you had on the dirt, the tougher it got. And it tended to respond negatively. And we've seen impacts of even driving really high flotation tractors across the field. The one planting tractor, we run it like four and five PSI in the tires. structures, the biomass, it just sort of became... progress forward. So left the mold board went to a chisel plow. You know, went from 8 inches to 4 inches, just kept reducing and reducing and integration into Nautilus. and evolutionary and to the point where in 2000, no-till corn planter and actually it was intended to be pulled behind a cultivator as the previous one was but it was so much heavier it pulled the cultivator sideways on the hills and things like that.

4:

we got to get the cultivator out of there.

3:

And then the planner did just fine. And even still, over the next 10 years, we figured out we don't need those roll calls. to double disc openers. And what I've observed in, I'll say, 30 years is the 10 years of my life, I've observed, So much that it crumbles and grinds. so much easier, you can get through there. talked about the sweet corn. I plant sweet corn with a 1970s International Cyclope 400. And I plant from the first of May to the early July. I'm not... into what was... I do nothing to the surface except go and do my own thing. old corn planter and I go drive across the field on the 10th of July and get out and look at the row unit and that zone is just crumbled and nice and that's like clear evidence that what we're how we're managing the farm and the soils and our activities there are having a very positive impact on that seed zone.

2:

surface preparation. So, can we talk about the soil types and slopes that you deal with? And so, in terms of the no-till, and what are these soils that you're dealing with? 'cause they're not sort of a regular soil that a lot of people are used to.

1:

of course the glacial morenche which there are two there's a larger one at the back and there's a are the organic matter in those soils is lower two and a half percent as opposed to three and a half to four and a quarter and the rest of it. For example, for years I ran a rotary hoe. And so that I would just, you know, I would just keep it that way. - Showing mean planning or- to facilitate emergence.

3:

I haven't used it for a long time. 20 years. The last time we used it was actually we put it on the back of a tractor with a small herd spreader on the front trying to establish a cover crop in the corn. So we actually were using it to establish a cover crop. the emergence of the planted crop.

1:

And so, as Max said, we've changed this soil structure to surface. They got away with it for 200 years because they were mixed farms. They plow up 10 or 12 acres in the fall and plant oats and seed it down to Red Clover and Timothy. And that was forage and pasture. Yeah, I grew up on a farm. But when you're 17, you do what your dad tells you and you don't look for reasons. and I went everywhere I could to learn everything I could. And as Max said, we got that new planter in 2002. having realized that we couldn't do what we had been doing, we didn't try no-till. We just did it.

3:

2001 corn soybeans and wheat all with that same white planter last year soybean harvest the ground was so phenomenally dry at harvest we actually finished planning week we irrigated, that week came up, the rest of the week came up a week later after we got some And so that's as dry as it gets. And honestly, those cracks weren't that bad. And you could still--

4:

that apart you could get a

3:

if you wanted to.

1:

We've just changed the soil structure. I remember two years ago back in one field back, we were a little late harvesting. in November. and there was some water on the surface. And we didn't make ruts. All we did, all you could see were the cleat marks from the combine. It didn't cut in at all because the soil has the structure to carry the load. Yes, we used low-pressure large-volume tires and all of those things. been there. We went in that direction after a really land stewardship came along and that's where we really started the transition. Before that we were doing things like putting clover into winter weaves. and we could see the benefit of that. Like Mack said, it was an evolution, it wasn't a revolution. Can we talk about the slopes? When we switched to no-till, we didn't try it, we just did it.

2:

would work. We knew the planter would do it. There isn't a planter made today that wouldn't do it. Can we talk about the slopes on the farm because there's the significant drumlin here? Yes. And, but it's not, like it's a small part of the overall.

3:

much more of it is like this, maybe talking about that a little bit Max. It's continuous slope, you know, mostly towards the bay, but somewhat towards the Bay of Quinney on the other side. So, as much as it looks flat, nowhere is it ever really flat. And so there's usually some kind of surface flow. But the significant slopes, I mean, like you say, the drumlin, even the front of better. Green cover is good. We have a couple spots where we have some channels that happen in the field and if we're planting wheat, we tend to go back over those. With a no-till drill you can plant willy-nilly if you want. to and so a couple of them will plant the whole field systematically with... And then go back up those channels just add a little bit more. Yeah. Okay. Um.

2:

Rob, can you talk about the crops that you grow here on the farm and the rotation that they follow?

3:

It's a very high demand crop. I mean, we have a pretty typical for the most part, corn soybean wheat rotation. crops and over the past few years we've been adding a area of sunflowers to the rotation every year and uh... usually replaces either, would you say, soybeans or corn? rotation. It used to be soybeans now it's more in the corn spot. Yeah just as we figure out where it fits and we usually plant that along road sides again just for the sake of the name. visit there were a couple of cars parked over there. And then lastly, arguably after wheat, is a cover crop, which helps... that's the only tillage we do here, that's the big exception, and that does a lot to our... in all those nutrients in the manure and helping make them more ready for the new year. corn the next year. And then that just... we...

2:

with glyphosate usually, and then whatever doesn't get killed off will get killed by frost. the feeding because... produce all if you want. but you guys made a decision to change that.

3:

Uh, we, it was kind of a decision across. time we'd been making our own feed with an on-farm mill and uh... That system had been there for several decades. It was starting to get old. be economical today. anymore unfortunately. And so eventually before that it was, it was had a nutrient cycle on the farm because we were using a lot of our own crops towards that, and not that we aren't anymore.

2:

now that the hatchery is producing our feed we still sell back corn and wheat to them. And so all the corn now and beans they go to that place? that goes off not associated with the feed side. So... Sorry, go ahead.

3:

portion of the corn... towards the mill. We just started doing this in the past year. - One year ago. - Yeah, a year ago. And I'm not sure how much wheat we've sent their way. - The soybeans for the longest time have been pretty much straight cash crop. Chickens can't digest soybeans raw. They have to be roasted or milled or whatever. So that's been treated as a cash crop. The wheat and corn, we tended to sell off the excess for a long time. they'll bring in a load of feed and typically take a load back, and it's been primarily the corn. more of every chicken ration in the province anyway. So that's a pretty easy one for them to accommodate on a regular basis. And this change in terms of the longterm.

2:

as you and Molly sort of get-- involved in that. It just makes for an easier day you don't have to.

3:

piece of the equation to have to worry about. It did change a lot of things for the most part for the better. Yeah it leaves us with a lot more time to just do other things around the farm address things that have needed to be addressed. At the same time like it was something that was a regular part of the day for a long time.

2:

change like you kind of find yourself missing it at first even if it was necessary and you had wanted it beforehand. As all the sunflowers going for...

3:

the cover crop mix and what other crops are you guys growing that hold back for cover crops? In the early spring before anything else we will plant some field peas. Five acres of field peas or more is enough peas for us to use in our own cover crop mixture when we harvest them. The sunflowers were kind of started on a bit of a whim. Somebody said, suggested that our soils would be a good fit for them or they would be a good fit for our soils. I guess. So we tried them. The first year was a phenomenal crop and I thought this is great, we'll do this every year. Two years later, it was an abysmal crop, but we were kind of stuck with it. So mostly they get sold to a local farm supply. They bag them up for backyard bird feeding. And he has a need for so much year. We don't supply all of his need as it is. We keep back some for they become part of the cover crop mixture. But it's a cash crop and it's a decent cash crop. And it's also kind of a fun one. - So with the three generations of you, I want you to each answer this question.

2:

and it comes back to why. no-tiller. And so what I'm saying is that a lot of people that are into no-till, they have a philosophy that that's

1:

So from each of your standpoints, why are you a no-tiller, Eric? Because we had to be. It's a simple answer. We couldn't go on doing what we were doing. It wasn't working. The corn responded poorly to even minimum till. And if there's tillage in the expression, there's nothing conservation about it. impact on the soil. The only way you can do that is by using a tool. its firm without any impact is to fly over it. You've got to have the ability to fly over it. There was a no brainer.

2:

right, like, you knew it.

3:

And Max is the next generation. Why are you a no-tiller? beside five acres and we can quantify it. We sort of did try a long-term tillage plot back in the 80s, but at some point you just give up and you stay with it. One thing that I… is we're on the field as early or earlier than. So it's not holding us back at all. You always look at the crop in May and June and think, "Man, I drove by that cornfield closer to town and it looks so nice, you know, the bright green And ours kind of looks a little rough But at the end of the day when you're pulling it off and you see the crops and you see the the yield And you know we A plow we didn't have three tractors running in the spring. We got one piece of equipment one tractor one person So we've we've cut the we've cut the the people down. We've cut the iron down We've cut the diesel down and in the end the yield You know, we're I'm not gonna say we're the best in the county because that would be the wrong thing to say But we're not in the bottom half for sure and we never are and when I compare us to the rest of the province even you Know the wheat yields the bean yields and even the corn yields they stand up just fine and there's a variation and what people are doing across the province and it's not costing us and in fact we're and making it at the tail end. It's really you can't pencil it away on a balance sheet. And yeah, there's a time factor. There's the fact that we get out there in the fall, we take the crop off and you park the machines. There isn't mud up the side of the tractor. There isn't mud between the duals. There's no ruts in the fields. We don't have to fix ruts because we don't make them. It works for us. It's easy time to. the end result, the yield makes sense. I can't see changing it. Yes, we compromise it every three years with the manure, but that's also planting a crop. And it's also our one-- - And that's a give and take. - It's a give and take. It's also our one time in the rotation to do any leveling that we gotta do. If we've had a tile fix, there's a hole there that we gotta try to level in. So there is a bit of a compromise and there is a give and take, but even that cultivation's shallow. of the root zone and we're letting that-- accumulate we're letting that that's. diversity and the healthy soils, talk about soil life and worms.

2:

I don't know why you'd want to go backwards. And one of the first comments you said when you started that statement is that it didn't look as good compared to some of the other crops that you sell out from Tillage, but again the same thing with cover crops that we leave over winter. Nature has always been sort of chaotic and violent and we as farmers have tried to make it simple and consistent and I think that's a paradigm thing and when you know I see it with thought process of doesn't have to be black going into the fall doesn't have to be smooth going into the fall that we win with the with the complexity of it. Yeah. So Rob, coming on and taking into the parts of the management of the farm and stuff. What's your thoughts in terms of no-till? Yeah, so the farm went no-till.

3:

2001 is that correct? I was born in 96, so it's really easy for me to say I know but also I like dad said I have an experience working off the farm and tilled land that was

1:

and between everything that...

3:

to have already said, I don't have much reason to, you know, leave it or try something else. To that end, for the future, I do have ideas for how to model. and maybe change different things about it. thing I've had on my mind recently, just because of... of manure season and I you know I just spent some time out in the field spreading manure. pulling around it, you know this big heavy tanker, putting down all of the... field and then we spread the manure and it's cultivated in. I don't remember too well because I was so young. try incorporating with the real ones and it didn't go well because of the feathers so that's a big hitch and spreading chicken manure is you can't really incorporate it because of the feathers so i ideas for going into the future. technologies like composting and anaerobic digestion, but those

1:

I think the big thing is...

3:

Two decades or more driving that big tanker through the field and cultivating worked. and that's the biggest reason why we still do it. - Understood. - So I think for the mindset that you need to know 'til you kind of have to. not constrain yourself to a label too much and not let it be a gospel that you...

1:

diligent to the field but it's a very strong guideline that has a lot of basis to it behind it. All right, awesome. And so far... the manure goes, it is essential. maintain the organic matter level and I've done organic matter soil tests for 25 years and we haven't increased it but we haven't decreased it. So I just want to quantify that a little bit.

2:

others around No-Till because you said that manure has... to be. But there's, when you were saying that, are you? context of this soil.

3:

no-till are making it work and and stuff just any comments on that max well yeah shit happens um it it has to happen i i think that when it's not just npk right and if all the plant needed in in its entire existence is npk yeah you could grow it in water right or you could grow it hydroponically and the microbiology in the soil and in terms of maneuver or mobility of nutrients and stuff. And you know you got to feed it. And just like humans, we can't just simply live on bread and water. We have to have a diversity of food in our diet.

2:

of the soil. Let's talk about cover crops a little bit and the way I've set this- about the cover crops and then adding the manure into it. So in terms of the time that you've been no-chilling, have you been cover cropping that entire time? Oh yes.

1:

We were cover cropping back in the 90s, 80s, probably before, but we weren't doing it...

3:

- Oh, we were cover cropping when we started cover cropping. - Yeah, that's it.

1:

And then I met Dr. Jill Clapperton at an innovative farmers conference. I happened to be the program chairman that year and heard about her somewhere. And she was with Ag Canada at the time, the Lethbridge Research Station, so I knew I could get her without expense. life. Well, hell, that was the first thing I heard about soil life, but that was part of my life. experience. And so, on the way home from that conference, Max and I were discussing it and we were already growing a few peas in the strawberry operation, just for extra thing for the customers. We could plant a few peas. We'd plant peas and what else come out of it? And so we ended up with, we've tried different things over the years, but we're down to about seven or eight species in the soil like. variety, every species. will function differently. with the weather that you got that year. So if you have more than one, you're never subject to... because you're planting in August, for God's sake. You don't plant things in August, you know. But we're planting cover crops in August after the winter wheat. And so, the more diversity you can put out there, the more successful you will be. And the primary goal, back to what I said at the beginning, is to... was erosion. That's that's the primary goal for that particular cover crop. And it does, as Max says, you can't do one thing without having a whole lot of side benefits.

2:

talk about what... picture up here of when you were doing.

3:

last summer and sort of what's the things that go into the spreader and how do you make that mix? back of the combine. And to some extent, we used to turn the air up and intentionally-- blow a little more seed out that was a cheap spread an easy way to do it. When we got into the multi-species stuff yeah there's guys who put stuff in the manure tank and spread it with a manure tanker. We came up with this we got an old fertilizer spreader from the local uh supplier, it's a four ton spreader and so that's where we mix it. We throw a little bit of our own wheat from just having harvested it. We keep it in the overhead bin and we'll add in peas that we've grown, sunflowers that we've grown. And then we've bought bags of sorghum, sedangrass, oilseed radish, tillage radish. I usually am able to get some barley locally that was leftover or bad germ or something that we throw in there. And then on top of that, any the last load. Soybeans too, so in that picture you can see a bunch of soybeans that went in because we had a lot of soybeans at that time. So everything gets mixed in there and we actually use a 3.5 inch auger and a cordless drill to just reach in and just stir it. We've seen over the years if you don't do that. the first pass across the field is pure wheat. And then you get a little bit of this and you get sunflowers over there and peas over there. So stirring it means it's more uniboyish. It's still not perfect and we're not trying for perfect. You're not really growing a crop. You want something green growing in that landscape. You don't want it planted like a crop. Right. And we want the diversity and it's our fourth, fifth, and sixth crop in our three crop rotation, right? And it gives us that diversity. - Or the ragweed. We plant this cover crop and get a good take on it. We know what's out there and it's easy to control. Everything in our mixture is frost controlled. We've had buckwheat. Buckwheat's a good one too, but man, if you see blooms out there, you got seeds next year. You can't stop it fast enough. We've had other things that didn't kill easily or would frost survive the winter. Now you've got something that you planted and it's now a weed in next year's corn.

1:

over top of it. And by noon, because we're using low volume manure, we're only putting 1800 gallons to the acre whereas dairy and hog manure they're talking five or six thousand gallons. It's not wet. And so Molly's out there at noon. scratching it in so that it's not on the surface very long and like I said that of the smell, you don't lose the ammonia nitrogen and you're not subject to the next hurricane delivering it to Hay Bay.

2:

So when do you plant the Kibber Krop versus when the wheat comes off? Right after. Okay. And have you thought about...

3:

the cover crop or spreading the cover crop and letting it grow up a bit so that it's green and and photosynthesize and put the manure on there without having to incorporate it? No, we also we don't want to not incorporate the manure okay we've talked about that a bit the the ammonia on the surface would largely get lost okay because if you allow it to dry and then you can put the manure on. you're gonna lose half of it or more even if it's going into a green standing crop if it's laying on the surface and dries It dries off that in drying is the water leaving and water. Leaving is taking ammonia with it, right? so No, we want to incorporate it and it's not just planting the cover crop. We're also tipping the wheat stubble in. We're also mixing in, we've chopped most of the straw. So we're stirring that in. Scratching the surface. We were probably cultivating two and a half inches deep, right? There's enough dirt rolling that we're mixing everything in. But it makes for an opportunity to do some leveling to tip the wheat stubble. We tend to cut the straw a little high. So, you know, you got six or eight inches of wheat stubble sticking up. That'll still be there and we see that where the corn stalks. are still there after a year of soybeans and after a year of... we're still we're tilling in corn stocks too at that time so if it's laying on the surface it's gonna be there a while okay yeah and did you terminate this or does is this way it comes out of the winter so both it'll all frost kill except the winter wheat right but we don't want we were a little early, April 20th-ish. on our soils, that's going to lead to slotting. If we can kill the wheat in the fall, so really the glyphosate is... needed for the wheat and it kills easily. But it's also shadowed by some of the other crops that are above of it. Yes. And so we'll have killed 90-95% of it and there will be some green spots in the spring. But that residue... has broken down so much. that the no-till planter with no coulters minimum row cleaners slices through their hair pinning is not an issue because what's there is so brittle and dry and thin the planter just goes through it. planting green into a specific crop, usually a cereal rye or things like that, which tends to be very

2:

stemmy and vertical. And when you get through that, you can you can get through that with a real planter without that hair pinning because you're not, it's not laying down, cutting across it, you're going through it standing. And there's some functional differences there. So we've talked a little bit around the tillage aspect and I've had this question out to all the people in the series. And a lot of them think that they need it for cell fertility, moving it, sort of avoid stratification, stuff like that. But you're, you know,

3:

out trees, leaves, holes and you got to get over it and work things in. I remember a few years back, I think it was 2012, 2013 we had acquired a piece of land and it was some heavy clay and those tiles are running on 30-foot centers. just maybe talk about what that implement is and what kind of shovels it has on it, how deep you run it. XL 19, 22 foot cultivator, it's a five bar cultivator, nothing fancy about the cultivator. What I don't like is the mulch harotines on the back. They're not quite aggressive enough to level out the shank pattern. only reason that that plow is on the front of the tractor is just to give a little more traction when you get those big fat low pressure tires. pull very well. They don't give you a lot of pulling traction. A tractor has duals on it that year but we have big sixes.

2:

usually go on it. So that was just counterweight for the purpose. And it's funny that you would say that Max because in this scenario, in terms of the traction you're talking about, if it was tilled ground you'd have way more traction. But when you've got unconsolidated, no-till soil that you're on, that's why that's happening. And chopped straw.

3:

And chops drop. Right. And more slippery. And a little manure that can get sticky at times. Yep. The tractor we use this year is the newer Puma and it has duels on all four corners and it pulls like a locomotive so it's a lot better than the big C.

2:

So, I'll even. You know her story around here is a lot more complicated than it is. a little bit. But, you know, Rob, you're the manure man here, so, you know, talk about a little bit, you know, what's the manure? How much are you putting on? When are you putting it on?

3:

we have an annual quota for 30,000 people.

1:

layers and. about a hundred thousand...

3:

And together they produce, what would you say about? Half a million dollars. of manure I was thinking more tons or pounds but.

1:

thing. And we're putting out 1800 gallons.

3:

an acre that's our goal 1800 to 2000 and uh. 300, 350 acres of each crop per year, so... minus one large field. We usually miss one of the fields near the front of the farm.

2:

And it's not as desperate for nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus from all that pasturing.

1:

that Eric but it it I can't say it wouldn't work without it but it works a hell of a lot better with it okay it you know like I said I've read innumerable multi-person what you call them reports yeah and the conclusion at the end of all of the reports without exception is that without organic amendments and in

3:

in the NP and K multiple times more than it costs to spread it. It's a byproduct of the egg production, as is usually a byproduct of any animal agriculture. But it's a huge value and when you spread that over the land and spread it well, I remember Rob's sake from something... challenging one year. He was on his annual speaking tour that winter and he said, "I'm challenging you to use as much nitrogen as possible." He didn't want us to apply as much. He wanted us to use whatever we apply. concept was use it as much as possible. So we're using it as much as we can in terms of spreading it as uniformly and Rob talked about our goal, our goal is to cover as much of that wheat ground so every ground every egg. three years. So, using it as well as we can, spreading it as well, means that we are not buying commercial fertilizers. We buy nitrogen for corn, nitrogen for corn, nitrogen for for wheat, starter for corn and wheat, no potash, no phosphorus. I mean, once in every 10 or 15 years, when you target some lime or something to do some leveling of pH's and stuff, but the manure is the prime and key nutrient source in in the cropping system. And through the no-till and the incorporation that makes that more available to to be able to count on that for the crop. That's right. Okay. Just carrying on with the manure a bit. I promised them something fun.

2:

And so, Rob, you seem to be the main guy in terms of manure application, but it seems like your dad reserves the next thing for himself still. I'm not sure if you drive that or not. Maybe talk to this a little bit and then.

3:

to talk to get Rob to talk about spreading it. - So liquid layer manure is not common. And there's a lot of reasons for that. Rob talked earlier about the feathers and distributing it. Splash plate spreading works, but agitating. So that manure goes in there over the span of a year and comes out in a week or three days. Then we do have a screw agitator for the back of the tractor to try to break up the surface and stir it up, but even still it gets thick or berms in there or just... It just gets thick, it gets 10, 12% dry matter and it stops moving 'cause that calcium's heavy. And so, years ago, we came up with, we used to have ramps and we would roll it down the ramp into the pit. That actually became a little bit dangerous. And Tachi, you had that old tractor, that's a 1969, 165 Massey. Well, that's pretty deep. I would, that's right at the front end. That's probably the first day I've been in there, or the first hour, because if it gets much higher, And so he's busy enough just coming and going there was a couple years in there where I did both and before that day this while I spread. So there's a migration and in a few years, Rob will get to enjoy that part too. Or Molly's out cultivating so she can't come in and out. I certainly wouldn't want to put one of my summer students in there. And honestly, that old tractor's a bit of a handful. And how much time do you have to be in there? Like once it gets down that far for the rest of the time until it's empty, I don't have to be continuously moving, but I'm in there for the last half day. So it takes us about three days to spread this 280,000 gallons. Mm-hmm. We get down to a certain point and Rob says, "Okay, it's not moving. I need you in here." Okay. And I start going and... the first hour I'm pretty busy and I'm stirring while he's out spreading. And then it gets to a point where I come to stop and I wait and he comes back and as soon as he starts to pump I start moving. Just create waves to the pump and keep it, keep it.