A Journey through Chris' 16 Acres | with @GreenThumbGuru

An interview with Chris from GreenThumbGuru  on Instagram
Instagram: @greenthumbguru @simple.life.on.16acres
YouTube:  simple life on 16 acres

BIO: Chris is a self taught vegetable gardener with over 14 years experience. His philosophy is around gardening naturally without chemicals, using permaculture principles, focusing on supporting a strong foundation for plants, wild life, and the soil biology

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More about this episode:

Our guest, Chris paints a picture of his journey from nostalgic beginnings, inspired by his grandparents, to the lush slopes of the Manning Valley where he and his family now cultivate life without the interference of chemicals. As we stroll through his verdant domain, Chris unveils the fabric of his ethos: teaching his children the cycles of nature, the interplay of composting chickens enriching the soil, and the integration of permaculture principles that shape his gardening philosophy.

Chris shares the seasonal rhythms of his garden, the careful dance with pests, and the collective wisdom within the gardening community that both celebrates and commiserates over nature's curveballs. This episode is a foray into the future too, where Chris's dreams of market gardening take root, hinting at the aspirations that sprout from every well-tended plot of land.

This conversation is as much an exploration of personal growth as it is of gardening. We reflect on the significance of embracing the here and now, the lessons tucked within past trials, and the quiet fulfillment of choosing a path that's uniquely ours. There's a patience required in gardening, mirrored in life's own pace, that Chris's story so vividly illustrates. Our chat winds down with a nod to the importance of community gardens, the initiation of green thumbs, and a gracious note of appreciation for the insights Chris brought to our table. This episode is a tribute to the green-thumbed enthusiasts and the nurturing of a life interwoven with the natural world.

'How I Grow' is produced by The Seed Collection Pty Ltd.
Find out more about us here: www.theseedcollection.com.au

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You're listening to how I Grow with the Seed Collection. My name is Gemma and today I'll be speaking with Chris from Green Thumb Guru at Simple Life on 16 Acres on Instagram. Chris is a self-taught vegetable gardener with over 14 years experience. His philosophy is around gardening naturally, without chemicals. He uses permaculture principles and focuses on supporting a strong foundation for plants, wildlife and soil biology. Hi, chris, and thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today.

Speaker 2: 0:32

Pleasure. Thanks for having me on your podcast, Gemma.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Oh, it's our pleasure. I'm really keen to learn more about how you grow. I like to start off with asking about what sparked your interest in gardening and why it's become something that's really important to you.

Speaker 2: 0:47

Yeah, certainly. So I think my interest for gardening stemmed back to my grandparents, so they owned a wholesale nursery and we used to well, my brothers and I used to go there on our school holidays and do work in their nursery. So I think a lot of it started back then. When I was younger, and also when my wife and I bought our first property when we were in our early 20s, we had an inspiration also to want to grow our own food. Main reason was we wanted to know where it was coming from and also we didn't like the idea of knowing that, you know, the food that we eat from the supermarkets potentially is being, you know, sprayed with chemicals and all the rest of it. So we like that idea of growing our own food and eating as fresh and organic as we can.

Speaker 1: 1:33

Lovely. I really like to hear about when people are saying they're inspired by parents and grandparents. I think that really enriches the, the journey when someone near and dear to you has started you off on that experience.

Speaker 2: 1:49

Yeah, totally, it doesn't take much as well, and I think a lot of like our childhood memories can you know, really lead us down a pathway of where we end up in life, certainly.

Speaker 1: 2:01

They definitely can. Do you have any like? Speaking of childhood memories, are there any specific plants or things about gardening that really take you back there?

Speaker 2: 2:13

Not really. It's hard to sort of pinpoint a pivotal moment on what actually sparked it, but, yeah, I think it's a collective of everything. I think it's just being being outdoors. I spent a lot of time outdoors, um, you know, like you know, around nature and um, yeah, and that time that I spent with my grandparents in their nursery and they would, you know, ramble on about all the botanical names and you and you had to have a go at trying to pronounce, um, how to say some of them? And um, yeah, so, yeah, I think it's just a collective of everything.

Speaker 2: 2:43

You know seeing the blossoms, seeing you know that the bees interact with those flowers, and also like watching plants grow throughout their stages. You know when you might pot up a particular plant or start it from seed and you actually get to see that plant go through its journey until you're actually putting it into the ground as well. I think that's a really good connecting point. That, yeah, really holds a lot of memories back when I was younger, and even now, you know, like I've got my own kids, so I've got three of my own kids and I'm sort of teaching them as well, and we enjoy our time that we're spending together outside when we're planting seeds and, yeah, spending time in nature.

Speaker 1: 3:23

It is. It's special to spend time in nature with the children. I really think so. You're in the Manning Valley on the mid-north coast of New South Wales. What kind of climate are you in there?

Speaker 2: 3:38

Yeah, we're still in that temperament climate so we still do get. We've been at our property here for 12 months. We've just passed our 12 month anniversary here. Winter last year we experienced a handful of frost, but very mild, and then summer's been quite brutal. This summer we experienced some really intense heat being out in the country so we're sort of about 45 minutes off the coast so we don't get that coastal breeze and we were getting some temperatures hitting like 44.5 in the peak of summer. But the balance in between the spring and autumn they're beautiful, they're really nice, you know mild weather to work with. So, yeah, I found this spring I got a really good head start on germinating a lot of seeds and getting them out into the ground a lot earlier than what most other gardeners I think could that are down further south and that are experiencing those late frosts that still come and then even winter. I found that growth was still quite good and strong throughout the colder months as well. So yeah, oh, lovely.

Speaker 1: 4:45

So you're on 16 acres, chris. That's a lot of land, more than most hobby farmers. Could you give us a bit of an idea for those listening who haven't yet seen it on Instagram?

Speaker 2: 5:03

what your land looked like when you started out in comparison to what it looks like now? Yeah, certainly so. The 16 acres is more of a rectangle shaped block and I would say about 80% of it would still be under native bushland. And we've got a spring creek that cuts straight through our property as well and then around the house site would probably make up. Around the house site we're establishing flower gardens and doing a lot of a big clean-up and sort of reclaiming back the land that was sort of quite overgrown. And then we've got a few other paddocks that we've got some big future plans for as well in setting up some market gardening that we're looking at doing and starting off our hobby farm there. And yeah, so we're looking at doing and starting off our hobby farm there. And um, yeah, so it's a. Yeah, we're still quite sloped.

Speaker 2: 5:48

Um, I I don't mind working on a sloped site rather than a flat. Um, a flat block, I think a lot of um, a lot of people always think that to grow vegetables it's much easier to work on a, on a on a flat site. Um, I could probably disagree, because when you get those real heavy downpours which we're all used to seeing, um, the water's going to run somewhere and if it's flat, yeah, you're going to be swimming. All your produce is going to be swimming in that um, in that water, and it can't drain away properly. So that's what I'm learning is trying to manage the water in where you want it to go. Um, it's quite important, um in. You know, I'm starting to add in a lot of swales into my design as well, into my slopes, to try to capture the water when it does come, but it also needs to be able to feed into those garden beds, but it also needs to be able to run away when we get too much rain.

Speaker 1: 6:36

So, yeah, Lovely and swales. They're a huge point in permaculture, as you would know. For those listening who might know what a swale is, could you please explain that a little bit for us?

Speaker 2: 6:50

Yeah. So swale is basically changing the scope of the land, so changing the form of the land, in trying to create a bit of a pocket and a divot, kind of like a spoon drain. It's got like a slight curve to it where the water can then capture into there. So if you picture like a really sloped site, if it didn't have anything on it at all, it's just when you get 50 mil of rain that's going to come down in, say, half hour. Instead of it being able to work its way down into the soil, it's going to run across that top surface really quickly.

Speaker 2: 7:26

So the idea is trying to slow the water down to avoid the land erosion. You don't want to lose that important top surface of the soil, that sort of 10 to 15 centimetres of soil that we work so hard on cultivating and improving by adding compost and other amendments and manure to it. To have a big downpour come and wash the majority of it away is not ideal. So yes, using the swales into your design can be really beneficial to ourselves in maintaining that water capture, Because what it does is it'll sort of capture it like a drain. It's going to sort of like how a drain would work and it's going to sort of work its way into there and it will head down. Gravity is going to feed its way down, but it's going to slow that water down. It's going to be able to penetrate down further into the water table and slowly work its way out instead of racing off down the hill.

Speaker 1: 8:19

So yeah, yes, and you do mention the soil biology and how swales help preserve some of that. Could you describe for us what healthy soil biology is, what that looks like?

Speaker 2: 8:32

Yeah, so I've never actually looked under a microscope. I wouldn't mind looking under a microscope and seeing how your soil currently is. Now you can do soil tests and and and and many other ways of sort of like looking at your soil. But I think, just like everything, having a diverse range of microbes into into your soil, because there's there's so many different species of microbes and nematodes that we, that we have in our soil and they're so microscopic you can't even see them. So it's hard to be able to understand something that you can't see.

Speaker 2: 9:06

But it all comes down to the compost that you're making has to be. You know, you've got to have a diverse range of material that's going into the compost making process as well. So, like, if you're only just putting horse manure and grass clippings into your compost, that's still fine. You're still going to make some pretty rich compost, but without adding food scraps and you know, banana peels and avocados and citrus and eggshells. You're not increasing your elements that you're going to be able to and the nutrients and elements that's going to come out of the compost. But the types of microbes that are going to live, the microbes and the fungi as well that are going to live in that compost is going to be limited as well.

Speaker 1: 9:49

Yes, very true. And while we're explaining some things for those who are listening haven't yet perhaps been introduced to some of these principles like swales and permaculture, could you tell us a little bit about what permaculture is to you, or just a basic rundown of the general idea?

Speaker 2: 10:07

Yeah, definitely so. The idea of permaculture is to look at putting principles into your everyday life, so creating a design around your day-to-day life that's going to work A for you as a family. It's got to be able to work for you. So you've got to be able to look at making it manageable. There's no point trying to, you know, set up some sort of lifestyle that's not going to work for you. So starting off by doing small steps is probably the best way to introduce yourself into it. And you want to look at trying to support your environment at the same time. So it's using principles exactly like what I mentioned, just with swales. So that's, that's one fine example there in, and it's benefiting us in being able to manage and control the water, but it's beneficial to the soil as well by keeping the soil damp and moist and and then also retaining that important top layer of soil. And even, just another idea, a system that I'm looking at setting up is tying chickens in with the whole system as well. So trying to create this. We call it a closed loop. So a closed loop system is like recycling all your food scraps and you're getting a product out of it at the end of the day as well. So an idea that I want to look at building is I've got two large compost bays currently set up at the moment, and not far from there I've got a chicken coop where we've got 19 chickens that we've recently sort of hatched from the eggs, and I want to look at building where they ro roost over, um, over the top of the compost bays at night time, so they're adding their manure straight on top of my compost pile instead of me having to then further move it around.

Speaker 2: 11:54

So you know, permaculture is also it's going to be time efficient. It's got to be, you know, minimizing the processes of what you do. So, um, it's quite important for me as well. Being on a large property. Now, being on 16 acres, I've got a lot more that I need to upkeep compared to my last property, where I was only on a small block of 300 square meters. There's a lot more lawn that I've got to mow and edging and weeding, so I've got to try to be more efficient with my time each day. So so, putting putting systems down in place, that's going to save on time, but they're also it's got a benefit that's coming out of it. That's basically that for me. That sums up permaculture yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:35

That's very clever, the idea about the chickens over the compost. I really like that.

Speaker 2: 12:40

Yeah, I haven't seen. I've sort of seen a couple of styles like um in, I think jeff lawton, uh, he he done a style, uh, where he was setting up um big rings inside a chicken coop and he would have three or four of them on the go, so one of them would be one week ahead of each other, so when, when, when all those um material is starting to break down, he would then lift the ring and then the chooks would then go at it and scratch it all up and they would get a free feed in there, you know, with black soldier, fly larvae and a bit of worms and all the rest of it. So they're getting a bit of protein. But yeah, the idea of getting manure straight into the compost without me even having to get my hands dirty, I just thought, yeah, let's try to build something like that and get it happening. So, yeah, let's try to build something like that and get it happening.

Speaker 1: 13:24

So yeah, yeah, very crafty, I like it. And what you were saying about more than one use, that closed loop, sorry. I find that really valuable as well Everything having more than one use, so you know the chickens are going to do their thing anyway. How can you utilize that, that sort of thing? And what you touched on before about the small solutions moving slowly, when you know doing something slowly, properly and slowly, that's actually one of the permaculture principles of use small, slow solutions.

Speaker 2: 13:58

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because if you look at trying to achieve everything into a change of lifestyle, in going down into a permaculture style of life, if you try to do it all at once, you're just going to overwhelm yourself. So I think that's how my wife and I, over the 14 years that we've been living out of home, for that's how we've sort of done it. We've just sort of like you change your toilet paper and then you change your toiletries, and then you try to start cutting out all the plastics, and then you're growing a bit of your own food and then you add a worm farm in and then, before you know it, you've got bees and then it just all grows from there and then, before you know it, you're looking at the whole setup of what you've set up and they all start to connect with each other. So it's like this spider web where everything's all linked. And that's when you can really. You know, you look back at it in the end of the day and you go I've got a system that's working and you will have hiccups, but you're going to have weather hiccups, you're going to have pests, you're going to have diseases, and that's just the world we live in. We can't control. We can't control it all, um, and and what I'm teaching myself and trying to learn at the moment is to try to take a step back and and try to um, try to take away, try to try to not be in control as much and try to work with the flow. So try to work with what's happening around nature and the seasons and all the weather patterns and all the rest of it, and just sort of step back and just observe.

Speaker 2: 15:26

Especially with pests, I'll use the white cabbage moth, for example. You've got your grubs and they can lay so many eggs under those leaves and they're like little, tiny, little yellow eggs. Unless you've got the time and you want to garden organic, unless you've got the time to go up there and be squishing those eggs daily, day in, day out. They're going to defeat you. It's either that or netting. You've got to net your produce straight from the get go.

Speaker 2: 15:53

I don't, I don't, I don't really net, I don't spray, I don't squish the bugs and and very rarely do I get out there and pick the pick the green grubs off. Um, I generally will let the chooks at it and they're going to make a bit of a mess of your plants and the rest of it, um but? But they're still keeping the pests at bay. And then there's also the. There there's a tiny black parasitic wasp. I can't quite remember the name of it. It takes time for nature to the good bugs to get in and do what they need to do. But if we're so focused on being in control and taking charge and spraying the produce down, we're not giving nature a chance to actually do what it's here to do to keep that balance and keep it in order.

Speaker 1: 16:39

Yeah, that's very true, very true indeed. That, and I think to getting the chickens involved, that's great. I do have to ask, though, when you say they make a bit of a mess of the plants, do they eat much of the produce that you have out there?

Speaker 2: 16:54

Yeah, they do. Look, you've got to be obviously wise with what you've just put down. If you've just put a whole new run of lettuce and spinach down or something like that, you're not going to let them just go have free room to your whole garden. You're going to want to put a bit of protection down for those crops. But, for example, I've got my market garden area which is roughly about 300 square metres. That's the first area I've sort of set up and there's a chicken coop right next to them.

Speaker 2: 17:23

So often I'll just be in there pottering around myself doing a bit of a tidy up and I'll just let the hens and the roosters in there and they'll just get in there and just have a jolly good old time just scratching around. And there's no crops in there at the moment currently that they're doing any damage to, if anything. They're scratching around the top surface of the soil so they're aerating the soil and they're picking up any sort of tomatoes that have gone a bit bad, that are lower down, and then they obviously can't access the good tomatoes that are up, higher up, that I've got bad. So yeah, using them just to sort of you know, yeah, there could be like diseases and pests and stuff like that. There could be like larvae down in the soil from different grubs that they're getting there and they're having a bit of a feed and cleaning things up and keeping it all in balance and keeping it healthy. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:16

They're quite good on the team Chooks.

Speaker 2: 18:20

Yes, yeah, but they can be very destructive if you haven't got them netted.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Oh, they can be. They are a descendant of the dinosaur. So could you tell us a little bit about what's currently on your property, what you're currently growing right now?

Speaker 2: 18:34

Yeah, so we've got a bit of everything. I've got pumpkins still in. They're coming towards their end and just ripening on the vine there at the moment. So, yeah, my youngest and I have been out picking lots of pumpkins at the moment. I've got some corn that's not too far off, getting ready to pick that as well. And speaking of grubs, I've been monitoring the grubs and they've been getting in the top part of the silks. So, yeah, I've been watching those. I remember watching I think it might have been on Gardening Australia a few years ago when the corn is actually developing to go around and actually squeeze that top part of where the corn is, where the silk is, because when the grubs are in there at a young stage, you're kind of squishing them before they get a chance to tunnel into your corn.

Speaker 2: 19:21

I've still got a lot of tomatoes in basil and eggplant, capsicum chillies a bit of a mixture of all that summer produce that's still around, but we are in our changeover in our seasons at the moment. So I've got a lot of seed that I produce. That's still around, but we are in our changeover in our seasons at the moment, so I've got a lot of seed that I've already put down a few weeks ago, prepping for all our brassicas and leeks and onions, more lettuce, and doing that changeover of the cycle. I think a lot of gardeners know that you can't have produce all year round. There's going to be gaps in between. But it's just all about that continuation of sowing seed. If you're not sowing seed, you're going to have a gap. You're going to have a gap in three months time, so yeah, yes, that's true.

Speaker 1: 20:04

And when you mentioned that you've been harvesting some pumpkins with your young son, I think we can learn a lot from our children, watching how they interact with and respond to nature. What kind of other activities do you get involved with with the kids when you're out in the garden? Do they contribute?

Speaker 2: 20:23

I've got my two eldest, 11 and 9, xavier and Indy, so they had their time when they were much younger. I think kids, they're really into it when they're young and they can see if you're getting enthusiastic about it, then they kind of follow suit as well and I think they sort of inspire us as well to have a bit of fun with it as well. Get your hands dirty, and the older kids don't get as much involved in it as what they did when they were younger. But yeah, look, we had a lot of good days, especially pulling up carrots. Pulling up carrots with kids, yeah, it's quite enjoyable. The thing is you don't go out there just to pick a handful of carrots for dinner. They end up pulling up the whole bed of carrots that you've got, regardless of the size.

Speaker 1: 21:11

Enthusiastic helpers, aren't they?

Speaker 2: 21:15

Yeah, very much so, very much, so much so. But yeah, my youngest, um angus, he's three and a half and um, yeah, we, he loves um the wheelbarrow, ride down to the bottom of the paddock to go down and pick some pumpkins and um, yeah, he was a little bit heavy-handed to begin with. He was sort of hoiking these queensland blue pumpkins into the uh into the uh wheelbarrow and you know, snapping off the stalks. And yeah, it's quite important to try to leave as much stalk on as you can so they ripen off properly and it stops it from rotting down into just basically, just so they last longer over winter. So he was sort of hoiking these four kilo. I don't know how he was lifting them, to be honest with you, but yeah, he was damaging a few stalks. So the second pick, he was much more gentle, a few. But yeah, he was damaging a few stalks. So the second pick, he was much more gentle. Once I sort of showed him to be more careful with them.

Speaker 1: 21:58

So yeah, yeah, and that's how we learn. It's great, fantastic that he's getting out there and helping you. I did see that clip on your Instagram. It's absolutely adorable, and something else I've seen on your Insta is that you've been growing some giant pumpkins. Can you tell us a bit about how you went?

Speaker 2: 22:16

Yeah, I went, okay. So the Atlantic giant pumpkins. So, yeah, like, I got some seed online and, yeah, gave it a red hot crack and tried to grow the biggest that I could. There was a handful of us growers. Yeah, there was Penny, justin and Mark and Steve. They're all mainly down that Sydney and Victoria area. Penny actually grew. She won an award, she got first place, I think, at the Sydney Royal Easter Show last year and I think she grew one up around 380 kilos. It was a monster. So I think she sort of put us all into gear to try to try to grow and it was a bit of a, you know, a bit of a competition it was. It was all for fun anyway.

Speaker 2: 23:01

But a lot of us didn't do too good, except for Steve growing in Camden, if you, if you check out his profile, he, he grew. He grew a handful of really good sized ones, I think nearly I don't know how many kilo. I don't think he's put up how many, how many kilo they got to. But a lot of us other growers, yeah, the vines didn't do too well this season. I think it was something to do with, um, pumpkins and zucchinis, um, yeah, the season must have just been too hot, um, the the rain and humidity kind of got in and set a lot of powdery mildew in and a bit of fungus as well, that kind of mucked with a lot of the vines. So yeah, I ended up getting two decent sized ones, but they were only like you know. They look big but they're only about sort of 10 to 15 kilos. So nothing to go entering into a show this year, so maybe next year.

Speaker 1: 23:50

Always next year. I also saw that you were having a bit of friendly competition with some zucchini growing efforts. Are there any secrets you're willing to share there?

Speaker 2: 24:01

You just forget to pick them and they just grow massive overnight. Yeah, that was the same sort of thing online. There was a lot of growers on the Instagram community that were just growing these huge zucchinis and a few of us just started yeah, let's just start a giant zucchini challenge, I think was the hashtag. So, yeah, I didn't grow the biggest. I grew a few that are around 46 centimetres and I seen some that were getting some around 53, 54 centimetres and weighing like three and a half to four kilos. So, yeah, it was good fun, good fun.

Speaker 1: 24:39

A bit of friendly competition is always nice, especially when it's encouraging us all to get out there and get our hands dirty. I'd say that's a good thing.

Speaker 2: 24:46

It certainly is, certainly is.

Speaker 1: 24:48

Yeah, so are there any plans for your garden for the future, something that you'd like to try, perhaps?

Speaker 2: 25:05

This journey that I'm on now in setting up a hobby farm is a whole new ballgame. So I've come from a small block living in Newcastle of 300 square metres was our whole total site, including the house, so our backyard was probably less than 100 square metres. So having a space restraint, as opposed to having so much space to garden that I can barely even keep up with all the weeding and mowing at the moment is it's gone from one world to the other. So I'm just trying to teach myself just to grow what I can, what I can manage at the moment. But our goal is to look at setting up, you know, a hobby farm where we're going to be growing totally organic and we're going to be growing seasonal produce to bring to market.

Speaker 2: 25:47

So we intend on trying to go to farmers markets around our area. We've already been connecting with a lot of locals around the area, starting to sell some of our produce as well and sharing that out with family and friends and just grow it from there. So we're not going to be focusing on growing like just one particular type of vegetable. We want to be trying to offer, you know, fruit as well. We've put a lot of fruit trees in and like eggs. We've got a couple of beehives, so we want to include in honey and just a mixed range of all different types of goods that we can offer. So yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:25

Oh, that sounds really amazing. Do you just it's just sticking with the fresh produce, or do you do any preserving and plan on taking them along as well? Or?

Speaker 2: 26:36

Yeah, we do. My wife's really good in the kitchen in utilising produce that's coming in. We all get that glut at times in the season when you might plant too many zucchinis. We definitely experience that at the start of spring and into summer. Yeah, my wife's great at preserving.

Speaker 2: 26:53

So, just looking up, you know, like a lot of different recipes online and having the gear, you've got to have a lot of jars to be able to store all this produce. So whether we'll bring that to the markets or not, I think you've got to go through a few other licensing with all the health sort of checks that you've got to do. So look, we never know, that might be something that might be on the horizon as well. Yeah, at the moment we're just doing it for just our own household sort of use, but we'll see how we go. We might chat with a few other people at markets and stuff and see what's involved and the cost in setting up a kitchen, because I think you've got to have a dedicated kitchen to be able to bring that sort of produce to market.

Speaker 1: 27:37

Yeah, you mentioned the zucchini glut. Do you have a favorite go-to? Because I I think that issue is something many gardeners actually come across. Is there a favorite recipe or uh?

Speaker 2: 27:49

the wife. The wife had to get really, really creative. Uh, the kids got over it by the end. They were like, oh, zucchini again, like we were having zucchini for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Almost she was making cakes with it, believe it or not. So, yeah, there was some really nice cake recipes and you can do zucchini muffins. She was using it in pasta zucchini slice. The list goes on. There's so many uses there.

Speaker 2: 28:19

So, yeah, I'm sure if any, if any, um, if any listeners out there, they do want to know that they're more than happy to, yeah, send me over a message on instagram and I can ask the wife and we can put together a list of maybe some recipes that we've got and some some ways of using it.

Speaker 2: 28:32

Um, because that is the problem in is having, yeah, a glut of one particular, uh, vegetable or fruit that comes through, and and what do you do with it all? Um, you know, besides sharing it with friends and and the community, I think it's another great way of sort of you know, sharing, sharing your produce around, because you know it's it's that good karma. You know, if you're connecting with others and you're and you're giving, you're giving produce away and you're not expecting any anything for it. You will get that back and you will reap the rewards. Other people are going to do the same thing, and I think that's really important for society is to continue to connect with people and just stop thinking about our own individual selves, but try to connect with others and, yeah, it brings us all together.

Speaker 1: 29:17

Yeah, I agree with that, Chris. I think that's really important, and not only does that produce swap allow us to connect with the community and the people around us, but it also teaches us a little bit more about food security. You know, if we can grow our own food and we can share with our neighbours and family and friends, we're less likely to run into food security issues if we have the skills and the community to support it.

Speaker 2: 29:42

Oh, totally, totally. When you look at the food miles, like how far you know a certain produce has to come from that farm land on the shelves or it has to go to a warehouse first and then it's further than transported to the supermarket, the food miles is ridiculous. The amount of like energy and fuel that goes into producing this food. And then you hear stories I think, grace, recently that you said that you interviewed she shared a really important topic on her social media page about the amount of food waste that got chucked out from one of these recent storms and it was perfectly fine.

Speaker 2: 30:22

It was just because their refrigerators went off and um, and yeah, and all this, all this perfectly fine produce that's taken up so much resources to grow, it has just been turfed where it could have gone to charities to be able to put it to use. You know so. Or or just yeah, give it away, like just yeah, but I don't know. It's a big problem that we're facing here, nationally and globally. Like I said, food waste is massive. I think it's one of our biggest topics that we need to definitely try to bring to the surface and get that problem solved.

Speaker 1: 31:00

I couldn't agree more. It is quite confronting when we look at the statistics and the information around that, it's quite eye-opening. So back to your garden. Could you share with us some of your biggest triumphs? What's something that you're most proud of about your garden at the moment?

Speaker 2: 31:21

Triumphs at the moment, yeah, trying to just trying to think of the biggest triumph not having bandicoots ruin and scratch up all your gardens. That was a challenge, fencing these little critters, because you don't experience them when you're living in the city. But yeah, as soon as we got out out here, I was so naive and gullible to like start garden beds without even having them fenced, and then, and then I come out and there's like holes everywhere and all my seedlings are all turned over and they're all uprooted and you're like, oh my god, what are we dealing with here? I thought it was, was like rabbits, and then I started and I was going out at night time seeing the bandicoots running around.

Speaker 2: 32:04

So, yeah, so to get a win over them and actually to be getting some produce coming in that hasn't been destroyed before you had a chance to pick it, that's a bit of a triumph, yeah. But yeah, look, I think just for most gardeners is picking that fresh, ripe tomato that hasn't been the same thing that's been destroyed, or eaten by a bird, or a grub's gotten into it, or blossom, end, rot, the list goes on. You know like tomatoes can be really tricky to perfect and you know exactly the right growing conditions that they need and then you put them under your net or your bag. The fruit you can start to pull in some really good, really good tomatoes and that's a good win, I think for most gardeners?

Speaker 1: 32:52

yeah, I agree, I think everybody loves growing their own tomatoes. Do you have any secrets around growing tomatoes that you'd like to share, or something that you've found really helpful, any secrets around growing?

Speaker 2: 33:02

tomatoes that you'd like to share or something that you've found really helpful. One thing I struggled with this growing season was airflow. I was growing them out in full sun. They do need to be out in full sun. If you're trying to grow them in shade, it's not going to work. They're a crop that needs full sun, but airflow is really important. So I had them probably spaced a little bit close to each other. I was trying to pack as much into the particular garden bed where I had them grown and I was trialing a different method. So I was trialing them up like some string line, but instead of getting them to grow right up to the top, I was kind of like leaving the leaders down a bit lower and I think I left them too low to the ground for too long.

Speaker 2: 33:46

So when we had some real big, heavy rain, I think a lot of that rain was then splashing down onto the soil. The soil then might have had some fungal spores in there and then all of a sudden, I started getting black spot and a lot of those fungal issues that tomatoes can experience, start getting black spot and a lot of those fungal issues that tomatoes can experience, and the plants are still in the ground, but I haven't been able to combat the fungal diseases. That's gone straight through. So yeah, diseases are tricky to manage.

Speaker 2: 34:13

You've just got to basically just keep picking, like pulling off all those affected leaves and you've got to bag them and actually get them off site. You need to put them in the bin. A lot of people say that you can't compost it as well, because the spores are still going to be able to survive through the compost process and then just protecting the fruit. Pretty much You've got fruit fly are probably the biggest pest for tomatoes, and the grubs that can get inside them, the caterpillars that can get inside them as well. So, yeah, just those exclusion bags are going to be your best friend pretty much.

Speaker 1: 34:49

So yeah, they are handy and I like how you pointed out that removal of those plants that are affected by fungal diseases is the best key, because it does it spreads. You know, a strong wind blows through, it can easily spread from one plant to another, so I think that's really vital information for people to be aware of as well. It's not uncommon with tomatoes either, unfortunately.

Speaker 2: 35:14

Exactly Like I was almost ready to give up on the whole lot of the tomato, like the whole garden bed.

Speaker 2: 35:20

All the plants went downhill, they stopped flowering, they stopped all the growing tips, really were struggling, and I was just just about ready to snip the whole lot out and pull them all out. But I started treating the problem. First I was being being observant, going out there and observing what's going on. You're then able to then read the plant, that the plant will tell you what what it needs, basically if it's deficient in something or if it needs some more water or if there's a certain disease that's affecting it. So I was able to identify that it was the fungus straight away. So I just spent a good couple of days just going through every day, going out there, picking all the leaves off, and as soon as I'd done that, I gave them a good feed and a liquid feed and they came back and they're now producing a second flush of tomatoes. So yeah, had I not persevered, I wouldn't be still getting tomatoes now, I would have just been left short.

Speaker 1: 36:11

So yeah, Perseverance is key, and could you please explain for us just for anybody who might not be so sure of identifying fungal disease what that actually looked like in your tomatoes, how you identified it?

Speaker 2: 36:25

Certainly, yeah, so it's always going to start lower down, the lower leaves that are closest to the ground level, and I think there is a couple of different types. You've got like there's the black spot which I was experiencing, but you've also got early blight and a lot of them can kind of look the same. They're all going to do the same kind of damage. They got. They're all there. They're there to attack the plants and they're going to shut them down and feed off the plants. So you've got it. You've got to remove those leaves. So you've got to look underneath the leaves as well. Sometimes the top surface of your leaves can look nice and green and healthy, but underneath they might be having those little spores. So your best just to basically strip the leaves right down before it continues to spread. So you may not be able to control it completely, but removing majority of those worse affected leaves is going to help the plant to be able to rebounce back.

Speaker 1: 37:20

Excellent, thank you. So, while you're out in the garden and you're applying these things, is there anything that you have found absolutely indispensable? That could be a garden tool or a certain method that you weren't using previously and have now employed?

Speaker 2: 37:38

The method of gardening is definitely mulch. Uh, the method of gardening is definitely mulch. I, I'm I'm a big advocate for having mulch um over across your top surface of your soil rather than leaving soil exposed. Uh, I think that it just it just kills off that the life in your, in your soil you've worked so hard to to get the microbes and and your soil ecology so healthy. And to leave it bare and exposed and have it completely cooked in summer, it just doesn't make sense to me. But it can be a catch-22. You know that's where it can harbour, yeah, excess moisture and you can have disease and fungal issues that can come from your mulch as well. So trying to apply the right layer of top dressing as well is quite tricky, and some crops don't benefit from being mulched. Like when you think about carrots. You can plant them that closely together that you can avoid the need to mulch.

Speaker 2: 38:37

But a tool, as you said before, like what piece of equipment? Pretty much your hands, your hands, are tools, right. Like, sometimes, instead of going and getting a trowel and you're putting like seedlings in the ground, I just get my hands and you just use your hands and your fingers and you just dig a hole with your hands, like they're our best tool, I think, in getting the job done. But if I had to pick another piece of equipment, a nice, good, sharp pair of secateurs is definitely probably my go-to. You can spend hours of fun going out there and you just put your secateurs in your holder and you go out there and you can do so much pruning and neatening up, improving airflow and light as well. To come through for certain crops with a pair of secateurs, yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:27

You can get quite in the zone doing that too. It can be quite meditative once you start snipping away and seeing it take form.

Speaker 2: 39:34

I do. I find it very meditative going out into the garden and in that right time of the morning, and it's your own time, to have that, your peace of mind and quiet, and listen to the birds. And you're right, you can get carried away for hours. You go out there just with the intention, just to pick a couple of fresh herbs for dinner and all of a sudden you find that you've been out there for like an hour weeding and you're like well, what did I come out here for?

Speaker 1: 40:00

I get that, I do. I like what you said about your hands as well, because there's a whole world of benefits getting your hands in the soil, all those microbes and just good for the soul. I find I really like that answer to that as your favorite garden tool and I'm going to use it.

Speaker 2: 40:18

Definitely, definitely, and I think you know definitely when you're using your hands. Look, some gardeners like the idea of using gloves and others prefer to go, you know, bareback. I'm not really a glove person, but I can see the reasons why people do wear them. You've got to be wary that we've got a lot of like spiders as well that can be living under mulch, and I did see last year, I think, a gardener on on Instagram. She got bitten by a spider not wearing gloves and and she must have had an allergic reaction to it and she was in hospital for a few weeks. So, yeah, you know, you've got to be, you've got to be, you've got to be wary. You've just got to be very cautious of your, of your surroundings. But now I like to, I like to garden without gloves.

Speaker 2: 41:03

I think the connection, uh, that we have with healthy soil um, it plays a a big role in our mental health, um that there has been some books that I've read. There was a guy over in america who wrote a book, um, I think it was something to do with, yeah, getting your hands dirty or something like that and uh, and his that and his book basically summed up that the microbes, the connection that we have with our microbes. It can come through and it can improve our gut health by that connection that we have with good, healthy soil. So, yeah, that's the importance that I think of. You know, not using gloves basically is to sort of. You know, you still wash your hands when you come in. You get a bit of dirt under your fingernails, as we all do. We always get a bit of dirt on our hands when you're gardening. But I think that connection with the soil really brings us back to our ancestral roots of how we used to live off the land.

Speaker 1: 41:59

Yeah, Very well said and it plays a role as well in the differences between buying, you know, large supermarket chain food and growing your own. We don't get as much of that connection with the soil with the supermarket food, do we Not, as much as growing our own and getting out there and eating the food from our own garden.

Speaker 2: 42:20

Oh, totally, you know you would think about the types of soil that is produced on a mass, on the mass scale on those big farms. I don't think there'd be a lot of life in that soil whatsoever. It's all synthetic fertilisers that keep those crops going and then we're consuming the food that's being grown in that inorganic fertilizer. So, yeah, I think definitely doing it how nature intended is the way. How more of us should be thinking and the more of us that are out there growing our own food at home and sharing it, sharing that bountiful of produce. When you do get a gluck with others as well, it just further grows. That grows that web and that connection between us all, I think yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:07

Beautiful. I certainly agree with that. So, beyond more people connecting with each other and the produce swap and things like that, is there anything that you'd like to see more of in the gardening realm?

Speaker 2: 43:21

Is there anything that you'd like to see more of in the gardening realm? I think community gardens are a big, important asset to city life when you've got people you know a huge amount of our population that live in cities now and you know they're growing and you've got apartments and villas and townhouses that don't offer the growing space like what a normal suburban backyard can. So I think a community garden is a really good way to get out there and get started, even before you want to waste the time in, you know going out and buying the pots and then all the soil and then trying to grow these seedlings. And if you go to a community garden, you can learn from others that have already. You know a few steps ahead, can learn from others that have already. You know a few steps ahead of you and you're connecting with other people around your area.

Speaker 2: 44:05

Um, and and yeah, I think that's a great way. I think that's a great way to get started, um and yeah, so I think councils, the council shires that are backing to support community gardens, which a lot of them are, I know. I know newcastle um was was quite strong in setting up a lot of community gardens, which a lot of them are. I know Newcastle was quite strong in setting up a lot of community gardens. There's quite a number of them all around the city really, so you can find them and they just need more members. One of the community gardens that I was working at for you know, volunteering at for nearly a decade we just we struggled to get good, consistent numbers to come along each working bee. So yeah, Yep.

Speaker 1: 44:44

Oh, so that's fantastic. If you've been thinking about getting involved with a community garden to anyone listening, have a Google, just search community garden near me and see what comes up and get involved, lend a hand and maybe learn some things as well.

Speaker 2: 44:59

That's it. And if you are in an area and you don't have one, contact your local council and find a parcel of land that's just sitting there that they just mow every fortnight, and take the initiative. Let's set one up.

Speaker 1: 45:13

Make some noise.

Speaker 2: 45:15

Make some noise. Make some noise. You can't do it solo, but get a group of locals that might live in your street or some other people, and if you get together and you've got a small crew to take it on, yeah, approach your local council and put in the application to set one up and you find a lot of councils will back it. If you can show that there's community. They want to see if there's going to be support to keep it going. They'll supply you with the materials. They'll supply you with mulch and soil and the materials to build the garden beds. They just need the people. They need the interest there for people to want to do it.

Speaker 1: 45:54

That's it and, like you say before, when people get involved with these things and there are often others there a few steps ahead we've also got that wealth of knowledge being shared as well, which is really really precious, especially when it comes to gardening and things like you know heirloom varieties and traditional methods, new methods, odd tips and tricks. You know, I hear a lot of really interesting things from the people I connect with in the garden community about you know what they put under their tomatoes or how they're growing zucchini vertically, for example. It's just fascinating to get out there and learn. So if you haven't started, it is a fantastic starting point. I really love that you have mentioned this, chris. I think it's fantastic.

Speaker 2: 46:36

Yeah, thanks, gemma. No, I think it's very important. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And that's you know, even us experienced gardeners that have been gardening for like half our life you still, you never stop learning. You know you're learning more things when you've got your mind open to it and you're open to wanting to learn new ways. If you're stuck and you're stubborn in your own ways, then probably, yeah, look, if you had that attitude and you brought that to a community garden. It's probably not the best way to go into a community garden, but I think, yeah, definitely, having some good mentors and leadership at a community garden, structured in the right way, can work really well, can work really well. But sometimes you can get people that personalities might butt heads if they're not willing to. You know, listen to another person and take on some other advice from another gardener.

Speaker 1: 47:29

yeah, so go ready with your conflict resolution skills. Perhaps Hopefully they won't be needed. So, speaking of the gardening journey from beginning to end and people in the beginning of their gardening journey, what advice would you give them? So perhaps it could be something you wish you could tell yourself back in the beginning of your journey.

Speaker 2: 47:55

Yeah, yeah, look, one good point of advice that I share with people starting out is just plant that seed. So planting a seed, it all starts from that. When you think about it, you know we've all come from as well when we're born. We've all sort of started from a seed as well when you think about it. So you know when you go and get that new packet of seeds, or if you order one online, or if someone's shared a packet of seeds with you that they've grown through generations, it all starts from that. And I think that's where the gardening journey and that bug sort of starts from, and you start from there. If I was to tell myself a piece of advice from when I was first starting out, hmm, that's a good one. If I went back sort of 14 years to tell Chris, I don't know, I can't think of something right now, but I'm sure it will come to me once we're finished on the call.

Speaker 1: 48:58

Oh, it's always the way.

Speaker 2: 49:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't really like to look back at the past or too far in the call. Oh, it's always the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't really like to look back at the past or too far in the future. I'm living life at the moment and try to live life in the present, and I think, being present right now, we're more focused and in tune of what's going on. You definitely have to remember things that happened in the past and remember failures. When you're gardening or just in general life, you still need to look back at where you've come, where you've come from as well, but don't plan too far in the future as well, because then you become fixated on the future. So, yeah, that's my philosophy at the moment is just live day in, day out, be present, be present with your kids, be present with your garden, observe. You know what's going on around you and you're more in tune, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 49:54

I really like that to be present, and not just with the garden, but in all the moments in your life. I think that's a really beautiful philosophy.

Speaker 2: 50:01

Yeah, definitely, I think you start a really beautiful philosophy. Yeah, definitely, I think you start to really appreciate life a lot more. You know when you actually, when you stop and you're present and you're looking around you, just you appreciate those special little moments. You know, like I'm just sitting here looking outside at the moment, I'm just seeing butterflies, you know, bouncing and hopping all around and birds jumping all through the trees and it's like, yeah, it's just simple things like that, but it's life.

Speaker 2: 50:28

Well, I'm here and I'm seeing other life around you and that's where I found that it was hard to get that living in the city, some places start to become so sterile and depleted of life other than our own life.

Speaker 2: 50:43

So, yeah, being out in the country has been a good change in our lifestyle and getting some fresh air and, yeah, it really connects you. It connects you to your environment and I feel very much a part of the land. The more I'm out here and I'm walking barefoot and I'm gardening bare hands yeah, I feel connected as one with the whole land. The more I'm out here and I'm walking barefoot and I'm gardening bare hands, yeah, I feel connected as one with the whole land and I'm kind of that custodian of our parcel of land here now to care for it and bring it into the next journey and chapter of what's ahead. I don't know where it's going to lead to from here in the next few years, the next 10 years. It'd be interesting to look back at photos of what the land was like when we first started here.

Speaker 1: 51:27

I have seen one video on your Instagram that demonstrated what it was like early on in comparison to what it's like now. So when you mention that they are fantastic to get before and after photos, that's a great bit of advice as well for other gardeners out there. Don't forget your before and after photos. That's a great bit of advice as well for other gardeners out there. Don't forget your before and after pictures.

Speaker 2: 51:47

Exactly exactly. That's a piece of advice that I would give to someone starting out. If you've got a new blank canvas or you're looking at starting on, you know, reconverting like changing over an overgrown garden space and you want to do something a bit different, take a couple of photos of what it currently looks like and then it gives you something to look back on and it's also a good reminder then in time that you shouldn't beat yourself down and feel bad that you haven't achieved anything or it hasn't turned out and looked the way how you wanted it to look, or you feel defeated because the crops didn't grow right. When you, when you take that step back in time, you go back and look at like how it was when you first started, then you can you should be able to give yourself a pat on the back and go, hey, look at what I have achieved, look at it.

Speaker 2: 52:35

Has take things. Things take time to mature, you know so, um, yeah, you know you're not going to achieve what you want overnight. It's going to take time. Sometimes it takes like a good decade, like our last place that we're at. Uh, it was a good decade until our garden was like really in churn and and and all the insect life and the beneficial um insects that were coming in there were really insured by 10 years in. The whole system was taking care of itself almost organically without having to use no sprays like right from the beginning. We started right at the beginning not using any harmful chemicals and yeah, and we've seen that evidence looking back at it on time.

Speaker 1: 53:20

So yeah, oh, that's excellent. And again it ties into that principle we spoke about earlier using small, slow solutions. It's about patience and learning and not having that expectation, letting go of that need for control and just enjoying the journey.

Speaker 2: 53:37

Yes, enjoy the journey. I like that. Yeah, definitely enjoy it, because we're only here to live once, right? So why try to replicate and do something just because someone else is doing it and try to do something the same way? That may suit that other person, but it may not suit you. So choose your style of how you want to garden. Some like it really nice and neat and up in raised beds and being in control, and then other people like that style of doing the whole food. For us like pick and choose what you like to do and what works for your lifestyle, because we don't all have the same amount of hours each day to give. So, yeah, you've got to make sure that it fits in with your schedule, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 54:21

That's very true, Chris. Is there anything that you would have liked to discuss or mention today that I haven't asked you about?

Speaker 2: 54:30

Oh, another good question. I'm just trying to think Maybe I'll throw a question back to you, maybe if you want to ask me a question on something that you would like to know about my lifestyle here, or something just in general may not even be gardening related, or something that you may not have even seen on my social media, that might be interested to know.

Speaker 1: 54:53

Yeah, yes, actually you mentioned how everybody has different amounts of time for the garden. I am curious how much time roughly would you say you spend per week on average in your garden.

Speaker 2: 55:09

That's a good one. It definitely outbalances how many hours I'm working a week at the moment. So my sort of working week before we moved here I was working roughly about sort of 42, 43 hours a week and I've cut down my work hours to about sort of 16 to 18 hours a week roughly Working out on the property. I reckon I'd be doing like a 60 to 70, maybe 80 hour work weeks, like I work seven days a week because it's just what I love doing. It's like I'm up like six o'clock in the morning and I do a few hours outdoors before even starting my actual sort of work that I'm doing, and then once I've finished that and sometimes during summer I'm out still outside like 7, 30, 8 o'clock, you know still watering or weeding or planting something or putting a new fruit tree in the ground and yeah. So the hours, just they just rack up and I think you lose track of how many hours you've actually put into the whole project. It's just that labor of love. I'm sure one day I'll all burn out.

Speaker 1: 56:12

Hopefully not, but it doesn't feel like work when you're doing what you love, does it?

Speaker 2: 56:17

It sure doesn't. No, no, when you're doing it, you've got the sun on your back and you're sweaty, but you get to the end of each day and you just still wake up the next morning. You just still want to wake up and do it again. It's something that gets me out of bed and I think that's very important for me is I've got something that I need to do outside and that's kind of what gives me that initiative to get up and to keep going each day. Yeah, yeah, I think that's what we all need a driver that's going to drive us, to get us out of bed. And, yeah, keep us going, have that fuel to keep us going.

Speaker 1: 56:56

Yeah, and it's a great motivation. So, Chris, for any of our listeners that want to find out more about you or what you do, well, have a look at some of these things on your Instagram that we've discussed. There's some lovely photographs. There's lots of information up there. Where can they find you or find out a bit more about you?

Speaker 2: 57:15

Yes, I'm most active on Instagram Page. Name is Green Thumb Guru and we've set up a like a farm page here as well, which is Simple Life on 16 Acres, and we've also got a YouTube channel set up as well, connected with the Simple Life on 16 Acres as well, but not on Facebook. I haven't got a Facebook page set up for those as well. So, pretty much Instagram or YouTube. You'll be able to find me and, yeah, love you if you want to follow along, and I'll probably follow along back as well and send me a message if you want and look forward to catching up with any new followers that might be listening. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:51

Fantastic, and not to forget those recipes you mentioned earlier either.

Speaker 2: 57:56

Definitely so. Yeah, if you want those zucchini recipes, send me over a message and I'll get the wife to put a list together. And yeah, so that way we can all combat that zucchini glut that we get.

Speaker 1: 58:07

Fantastic, great on the team. You and your wife Wonderful. Thank you so much for your time today. Chris Really appreciate it. You've been wonderful to chat with, very interesting, and I look forward to continuing to follow you on your socials.

Speaker 2: 58:21

Yeah, thanks, Gemma. Thanks for your time.

Speaker 1: 58:24

If you haven't already been following Chris's journey, jump onto Instagram or YouTube and check out what he's doing. Those accounts again. A green thumb guru on Instagram, or simple life on 16 acres on YouTube. You've been listening to how I Grow, produced by the Seed in melbourne, victoria. It's our aim to make gardening more accessible to more people and this podcast is one of the many ways we're doing that. If you don't already know who we are, jump online and visit wwwtheseedcollectioncomau. That address again wwwtheseedcollectioncomau. Thanks for listening.