Fairy Tale Flip Ep 12: The Girl Who Danced with Fairies, An Irish Halloween Tale

What do fairies have to do with Halloween? And should you be afraid? That is the question we discuss in episode 12 of Fairy Tale Flip this month while exploring "The Girl Who Danced with Fairies, An Irish Halloween Tale." We take a deep dive into the history of Halloween in Ireland, including Samhain, celebrated by the Celts 2,000 years ago. While diving deep into symbolic elements, we examine dancing, music, food, spiritual growth, and self-discovery. Of course, we also explore fairy abductions, changelings, liminal spaces, and connections to the supernatural. This is an exciting Halloween episode not to be missed.
The Girl Who Danced with Fairies Video

• ‍♀️ Introduction and Story Overview (00:02 - 08:07)
• Podcast episode 12 of Fairy Tale Flip
• Hosts: Vanessa Y. Rogers and Donna Lee Fields
• Monthly discussion of fairy tales, flipping them for deeper understanding
• Halloween episode: 'The Girl who Danced with Fairies' (Irish tale)
• Story summary: Girl falls into fairy world, dances with fairy king, refuses food/drink, returns home
• Historical Context and Symbolism (08:07 - 20:39)
• Halloween/Samhain origins in Celtic festival 2,000 years ago
• Four seasonal signposts in Irish tradition
• Veil between worlds thinnest on Halloween
• Donna's interpretation: Story as spiritual growth opportunity
• Vanessa's view: Possibly an urban legend or cautionary tale
• Symbolic Elements and Interpretations (20:39 - 28:27)
• Five key elements: Dancing, Music, Fingers, Food, Voice
• Dancing as expression of freedom and letting go
• Music as spiritual connection and awakening
• Fingers representing spiritual connection to true self
• Food/drink refusal as missed opportunity or self-preservation
• Voice as personal truth or spiritual communication
• Fairy Abductions and Beliefs (28:28 - 37:16)
• Reasons for fairy abductions: punishment, genetics, servitude
• Changeling beliefs and practices
• Methods of protection against fairies
• Strong belief in fairies in Ireland, past and present
• Liminal Spaces and Spiritual Connections (37:16 - 49:46)
• Thin spaces where veil between worlds is thinnest
• Water sources as spiritual connections (wells, springs, rivers)
• Other liminal spaces: hawthorn trees, burial mounds, caves
• Water as Earth's bloodstream in spiritual interpretations
• Importance of water in the story as entry point to fairy world
• Symbolism and Final Thoughts (49:46 - 56:38)
• Significance of king's red sash and gold band
• Different interpretations of fairy interactions: abduction vs. embrace
• Discussion on immortality in fairy world
• Encouragement for audience engagement and feedback
• Announcement of next episode on La Llorona

Follow us:

Fabric of Folklore website

Youtube channel

Facebook Page

Facebook Group

Instagram

Twitter

Linkedin

Transcript

 00:04
Vanessa Rogers
Welcome. Welcome to Fairy Tale Flip. This is Fairy tale flip episode 12, I believe. We were just trying to figure out which number this was, which is awesome. Amazing. I'm Vanessa Y. Rogers. I have a podcast called Fabric of Folklore. And this is Donna Lee Fields from Scaffolding Magic. She also has her own podcast, which is currently on hiatus. Doorways to Learning All About Education. And we come together once a month to discuss one fairy tale and kind of flip it on its head and look at its context, its history, and all of the symbolic elements about it so that we can better understand what the story is attempting to tell us. And this month, which actually we're recording this on November 4, just because life happened instead of doing it in October. But this was supposed to be our Halloween episode. 

 01:05
Vanessa Rogers
This still is our Halloween episode. So we put up a poll, and the poll kind of gave us a tie. And so what we ended up deciding was for this month, for October, you know, pretend we're in October, were gonna do the Halloween tale, the Girl who Danced with Fairies. It's an Irish Halloween tale. And then for November, this. The one that also had a tie was La Llorona, which is a Mexican folk tale, which is also kind of a dark, ghostly story. And so because those tied, we're doing this one, the Girl who Danced with Fairies, today. And it's a really fascinating episode. I think you're going to find this really fascinating. It's. It's different than a lot of the ones that we've done before. I believe at least the research I did was a little bit different. 

 01:59
Vanessa Rogers
So, Donna, you want to give us a summary of it and then we can get into it? 

 02:05
Donna Lee Fields
Sure, sure. And I just want to mention that actually Today is the 6th. The 6th. 

 02:10
Vanessa Rogers
And. No, it isn't. 

 02:11
Donna Lee Fields
Yes. It's the day after the elections. You're so funny, Vanessa, because we're just talking about them, and we are not going to talk about politics. But Vanessa and I were just processing it, and for, I think both of us, we are just going to send love to everyone. And this is our sort of, like, card, our love card to all of you. We're going to move on. And theme of the story is really renewal. And so no matter what is happening in politics, you can let it affect you as much as you want. We just want to send out love through stories. How's that? 

 02:43
Vanessa Rogers
That's right. Yes. You can hear all about politics elsewhere. 

 02:48
Donna Lee Fields
It's kind of funny because I mentioned very briefly that each time where I'm going In my process of moving from Spain to Mexico. And today I've moved up to the big house. And you can see behind me, my dog is just lying there on the floor. There's no furniture up here, but the good news is that she's sticking with me. I thought she would stay in the other house. So my loyal dog is behind me. And it's wonderful. It's wonderful. So the story, the girl who danced with fairies, it's another one of those stories I didn't want to do. But I always trust Vanessa, and she loved the story. And once I got into it and started studying it, I loved it. I loved it. So there's a lot of symbolism here. 

 03:28
Donna Lee Fields
And if you've been listening to us for a while, you know that Vanessa picks up on some parts of the story and I pick up on another, just naturally. And so we are going to have this fantastic discussion. And the story is so simple. It's just about a girl. It's an Irish tale. A girl who woke up one day. She was the prettiest girl in the village. She went for a walk. She slipped, she fell into a hole. She was kidnapped. We couldn't say kidnapped by. By fairies. Maybe at the end, we'll call it something else. Invited to dance with the king of the fairies. And she had this fantastic time. She was asked to come down and eat a whole banquet with them. Something told her not to eat or drink anything or she would have to stay there forever. 

 04:12
Donna Lee Fields
And when she didn't eat or drink, she offended all the fairies. They threw her out of the land that she was in. She went back home, closed up her house, locked all the doors, hid in her bed. And the last message she heard from the fairies was, we know. We know you didn't drink anything this time, but just wait for next year. 

 04:36
Vanessa Rogers
Yes. 

 04:37
Donna Lee Fields
So that's the story, and then we're going to get into details. Okay. 

 04:41
Vanessa Rogers
What were your initial thoughts, Donna, when you read the story? 

 04:45
Donna Lee Fields
Again, I thought it was so simple. I thought that it was just, you know, nothing really interesting about it, until I realized if you look at it from a growth perspective, a spiritual perspective, then there's a lot going on here. There's a lot of. You can either look at it from the perspective of fairies being mischievous and having their own agenda and being kind of not evil, we could say, but not really having their best interest at heart. And then I looked at it as the fairies giving her an incredible growth opportunity that she didn't take. So that was my odyssey. 

 05:29
Vanessa Rogers
Interesting. I'm Interested to hear more about that. My first. Well, you know, I actually just had this thought as before, we. We hopped on and I. We. We talk a lot about. About differentiating these types of tales from one another, whether or not it's a fairy tale or a folk tale. And I almost think that this one sounds more like an urban legend. And the difference between a fairy tale and a folktale, just to reiterate, a fairy tale is often a story that has an author, and it usually has supernatural elements. And a folk tale does not have an author. It's an orally told story that is told and passed on. And there's lots of different versions usually of these stories, and there's not usually a time or a place that it's connected to. 

 06:20
Vanessa Rogers
And the reason I wonder if this is potentially an urban legend is because an urban legend is usually about a bizarre, supernatural, inexplicable event that is presented as true. And in Ireland, especially today, there are still people who have strong beliefs in fairies. There are all over the world, not just in Ireland, but there are people who strongly believe in fairies. But it was a strongly held belief just 50, 100 years ago. And so I think it might have been a tale of a cautionary tale to warn people not to be going out on Halloween or on Samhain night, not dressed up to scare off the spirits. So that was something that popped up for me. 

 07:15
Donna Lee Fields
That's really interesting. And yes, first of all, I believe in fairies. I don't know if I believe in the same fairies the Irish sort of portray them to be. But, yeah, when I was in Ireland, one of the guides was telling us that there was a highway being built, and apparently it came right up to this little. Little tiny hill that was known as a fairy hill. The fairies lived there. And these are big, husky Irish workers. They refused to dig in that hill. They refused. They actually had to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to turn the highway around this little fairy hill. So, yes, there's a strong belief in it. I had never thought of it as an urban legend. It could very well be. It's portrayed because of the illustrations that I see from the story. And there aren't a lot. 

 08:03
Donna Lee Fields
It even says there aren't a lot of illustrations from the story. It's a hard story to find. I thought it was just a typical fairy tale. 

 08:11
Vanessa Rogers
Yeah. And I couldn't find any other variations. That's one of the things that we always look for, or at least I particularly enjoy looking for different variations to see how it's changed through the years. And I did not find any variations on this particular story. But I think part of that is that. But there are so many different stories about fairy abductions, especially in Ireland, and that happens. And so there's lots of stories about that, but not necessarily on Halloween night. But it's interesting that you mentioned that the highway in Ireland, because I had a guest on Nancy Marie Brown, I believe. I think it's episode 16, and she wrote a book about Icelandic elves. 

 08:56
Vanessa Rogers
And the same type of thing happens in Iceland, that if there are places where it's believed they were, they have strongly held beliefs that elves are there, that they will reroute highways, they will rework general construction projects so that they don't disturb the elves. And one of the things that she pointed out was, regardless if you believe that there are elves or not, the belief helps to maintain environmental sustainability. I guess it helps people have a love or a respect for their environment. 

 09:49
Donna Lee Fields
I agree with you completely. I think that it's really important that remember that just this 3D world we're living in is not the only existence, that there are so many other. There's so many other elements going on in our 3D world. But even if you don't believe there are other dimensions, we need to be more respectful of the nature around us. And this is one way of reminding us, you know, through fairy tales, we usually learn these important stories that we need to think about other people than ourselves, other beings. They're living beings other than ourselves. The important thing here, I think, to go into the story, because to me, this really is about perspectives. How do we see fairies? Let's first talk about Halloween. I know you have a lot of information on Halloween. 

 10:33
Donna Lee Fields
I didn't go into it a lot because I know you researched it more. But Halloween very generally is a reminder that death doesn't necessarily have to be an end. For me, strongly believe that the death of this body is not the end, that we're eternal and Halloween marks the beginning of a new cycle of life. So do you want to tell us more about what you found Halloween really means? 

 10:57
Vanessa Rogers
Yeah. So a lot of people know that it started. A lot of people have an understanding that it started in Ireland as a Celtic festival 2,000 years ago. And they called it Samhain. If you look at the spelling of the name, it's very strange. It's S A M H A I N. But of course, Gaelic pronunciation of letters is always very interesting. And there seems to be some discrepancies on what actually happened on Samhain. Because the Irish, the monks, wrote about it about 400 years after the fact. And so a lot of what we understand about what the Celts and how the Celts celebrated was written by clergy that many centuries after the fact. And so a lot of it is kind of guesswork, but it's one of the four sign posts, the four seasonal signposts that were. 

 12:05
Vanessa Rogers
There were festivals that were held in Ireland. One of them was Samhain, and that marked the end of summer and the start of winter. It was when people were supposed to bring in their animals inside to protect them from the cold winter nights. They planted seeds, and it was supposed to be the night directly in between the equinoxes. So between the summer equinox and the winter equinox. So it was directly in the middle. The other three were. Imbalik celebrated February 1. This marked the start of the lambing season and spring planting. Beltane was celebrated on May 1. This marked the start of the mating season for both humans and animals. And. And Lun Sada was celebrated August 1st, and this marked the start of harvest. So a lot of these festivals are really all about, you know, farming. 

 12:56
Vanessa Rogers
But Samhain has a lot of ties, especially to the Day of the Dead, where they were really celebrating past ancestors. And they see it. They saw it as a time when the veil between our world and what they called other worlds. And it's kind of unclear if it's one other world or multiple other worlds, because the other worlds included their dead, their deities, the fairies. And so I'm. I'm unclear as whether this is one other world or if there's multiple places that they believed in. But I really wanted to understand why that particular date was when the veil was the thinnest. And evidently that's when the ancient burial ground mounds where they buried their dead were opened. And so I'm not sure if they physically opened them. I wasn't clear on that. 

 14:02
Vanessa Rogers
But that's why they believed that the veil was opened during this time period. And so at least the Irish after the Celts believed it was a time when you should come in from outside and not tempt anyone from those other worlds so as not to be kidnapped. And that's one reason why I say it's a cautionary tale, because it was not recommended to be outside. And if you were outside, it was recommended that you were masked and you were not dressed as yourself. And so people would put treats out on their doorstep and on their window steps to appease any otherworldly creatures that were Coming around so as to not make them mad. And a lot of. 

 15:00
Vanessa Rogers
At least I'm familiar with the Jack O'LANTERNS the tradition came from the Irish and originally they would take turnips because pumpkins are very American, as in like throughout the Americas, not just North America, but they would have turnips and they would carve basically a face into the turnip to scare off jack, which was a spirit they wanted to keep away. And when the Irish immigrants came to America, they didn't have turnips because ill. Who likes turnips? You like turnips? 

 15:35
Donna Lee Fields
I do. I do. 

 15:37
Vanessa Rogers
I cannot. I mean, maybe there's a way to cook them and I don't like. But, so, but pumpkins were very prominent and they were also a lot easier to carve. And so they would carve pumpkins instead of turnips. And so that's a lot of the ties, the different ties between what was Samhain 2000 years ago and then the kind of how it progressed throughout the years. 

 16:09
Donna Lee Fields
Yeah, no, that's so it's so much information and important information. And all I'd like to add is that it was a pagan holiday. And pagan doesn't have to have the connotation of ignorant, you know, sort of wildly spiritual fanatics. Pagan was a very concrete religion with people who were very dedicated to mysticism and they were very wise and very knowledgeable. And this hol was, as you say, created around a time where the veil was thinned. And what we mean by that is that it's easier to hear spirits on the other side and you just need to listen. We all have the ability to do that. Even today. It's just we're so involved with our physical surroundings, we don't do it. 

 16:53
Donna Lee Fields
And when the Christians came in and were trying to sort of take in people, the pagans and people who believed in paganism, they decided to put October 31st on the calendar. You know, fix it. But really the holiday itself is more an astrological following. And so the date changes depending on the geometry of the stars and the constellations and everything like that. So. Yes. 

 17:18
Vanessa Rogers
And it was actually in 834, Pope Gregory IV decreed November, the day for celebrating All Saints Day. And then All Hallows Day became the night before October 31st. And so he was the one who put it on the calendar. He really wanted the All Saints Day. But everyone else continued to celebrate those pagan celebrations despite the Church not wanting them to. And then also the All Souls Day is November 2nd, and they want, they celebrated by praying for the souls of their lost loved ones, hoping that their prayers would help their dead relatives out of purgatory and into heaven. And they would beg for soul cakes, which I'm not familiar with. Are you familiar with soul cakes? 

 18:09
Donna Lee Fields
No, it doesn't sound familiar, but what you're saying is a really interesting cross between Christian beliefs and the paganism. So I find that, yeah, I think. 

 18:21
Vanessa Rogers
Most of our holidays, we find are a cross between them because the Christians wanted to Christianize it, but people wanted to keep their old festivities and the old celebrations. And there was actually a time when Britain tried to squash it. They, they took, at least they took out Christmas. They, I'm sure they probably took out Halloween as well. And they, at all of the festivals because they saw them all as sinful. 

 18:57
Donna Lee Fields
But this is, you know, just as a real side note, the Irish are very stubborn in a good way, and I feel a good way in this respect because when the Catholic Church started coming in, they would, they had to let the Irish priests, the new Catholic Irish priests, continue being married because the Irish priest refused to give up their right to be married. And so all over the world the priest had to take a vow of celibacy. Except in Ireland, where they were let to continue having families. 

 19:29
Vanessa Rogers
Is that still the case today? 

 19:30
Donna Lee Fields
Oh, no, no, no. That was just, you know, transition period for, I don't know, 100 years or so. But yeah, as far as I know, no, they, you know, if you're a Catholic priest, you need to take a vow of celibacy. But it's just a side note. So what I'd love to do is just then sort of transition into how I see the story. And I would love to hear your perspect. I see it as an opportunity for her to take a different spiritual path. And I find it fascinating that it is considered a Halloween story because part of the Halloween pagan belief is that Halloween was the time to confront your fears and connect with unknown parts of yourself. And it was a time for self discovery and healing. 

 20:14
Donna Lee Fields
So for me, I have five things I would like to talk about briefly each one, see if I can convince you, Vanessa, and our listeners about how I see this is a story of not this fairy is trying to frighten her, but the fairies, giving her an opportunity to take a hugely exciting new path. And she decided not to. She was scared. So the first one, and please break, you know, break in and go any on any tangent you want, but the first one is about the dancing. 

 20:47
Vanessa Rogers
Okay. 

 20:48
Donna Lee Fields
The first element that I found was really important was the dancing. And there is an illustration that is tied sort of loosely to the story, where there is an illustration by Arthur Rackham and it says, fairies never see I feel happy. They say I feel dancey. 

 21:06
Vanessa Rogers
So I love that quote. Yeah, isn't that great? 

 21:10
Donna Lee Fields
So what is the importance of dance? And dance is all about expressing yourself. It's about letting go. It's about shedding any fears you had that day or any problems you had you're going through. And it's just about being free. So that's my first one. Do you have anything you were going to talk about? The dance itself? 

 21:29
Vanessa Rogers
No, but that's a really interesting thought. And I. And I love that you. You thought about that, because, again, it was not something that came to mind. But, you know, being a mom of children, one of the first things that you see when your children are really young, when they hear music, they dance. It's almost involuntary. It's like it's just a human reaction to music, the need to dance to something that brings you joy. And so I love that fairies choose to dance when they're happy and when they're married. And I wish as adults that was something that we did more frequently, because dance does really bring us joy. Right. When we. When we're free and we're. We're dancing, as long as we're not feeling judged by other people. 

 22:19
Vanessa Rogers
I think that's when people stop wanting to dance because they feel the judgment of others, as if their. Their dance moves are not acceptable to those around you. I particularly recall feeling like that in middle school and middle school dances, which seemed just torturous, you know, because everyone's just doing the same exact dance moves so that no one is. Is being judged. But dancing is very central, I feel like, to human nature, and I guess not just to human nature, but to fairy nature. 

 22:52
Donna Lee Fields
That's right, because that's what he does. When she first goes down into the fairyland, the king asks her to dance. And her response is, well, how can you ask me to dance without music? And so that was very interesting because I thought we can dance without music, but the story insists on music. And so I wanted. I sort of pondered the significance of music. And music also is a very sensuous experience. It's a spiritual experience, and it helps us connect with our inner beliefs, our inner desires. It's used almost always for spiritual communication. When you go to a channeler, when you go to an astrologer, when you go to anyone who is dealing with anything that's not 3D or even a psychiatrist. They'll play gentle music. And it can be seen as a sign of spiritual awakening. 

 23:40
Donna Lee Fields
And so this story, again, to me, having the. Now we have two elements. There are three more that I think are very important. The dancing is giving her an opportunity to leave behind all of her, you know, sort of qualms and problems in her a life above the earth and music to connect with her spiritual soul. 

 24:02
Vanessa Rogers
So she does. I want to point out that she says it felt like they were floating as they were dancing. And so I wonder if that connects with what you're talking about, how it feels very spiritual to dance. 

 24:16
Donna Lee Fields
Well, the people I know who really are very into mysticism, and there's a phenomenon. I don't know if you're familiar with it, when you're just about going to sleep, your spirit actually can leave its body. And if you're aware, you follow your spirit floating to different places, and you can have a very strong spiritual experience. So her. I love that you said that, because floating is very important. She has this experience with the king of the fairies that she actually leaving her body so that she can have a completely fulfilling spiritual experience. 

 24:52
Vanessa Rogers
Interesting. 

 24:53
Donna Lee Fields
Yeah. 

 24:54
Vanessa Rogers
And I also wanted to point out, when you talked about music, and my daughter particularly pointed this out when I was reading the story, that they described it as delicious music. And I think that was just like a turn of phrase, but I thought that was. She also really thought that was a really fun way of describing the music. 

 25:11
Donna Lee Fields
Say that again. She described it as what type of music? 

 25:13
Vanessa Rogers
So it said in the text, delicious music. And she really liked that. She thought that was really fun. And I think that's a really interesting way to describe music as well, that you particularly enjoy. 

 25:26
Donna Lee Fields
Right. Because we have to think about what is her life up on, you know, up above, not in fairyland. Was she expected? Did she have a lot of expectations? Should she have to marry? Did she have to be a housewife? Did she have to have children? Did she want children? You know, what was her life outside of fairyland? Was she following societal expectations? So again, there. There's the third element I want to talk about is hands. Fingers. It says in the story, the king asked her to dance. She said there was no music. He had started music. And then he took her fingers. It doesn't say he took her hand. He took her fingers. And so I'm thinking that's very interesting. What do fingers mean? And I was looking into palmistry. I don't know if you've ever looked at it. 

 26:12
Donna Lee Fields
You read the lines of the palms and both fingers. And I never heard the people read the fingers. I always thought it was the palms. And he says so he palmistry. And reading the fingers is the learning about your spiritual connection to your true self. And I think that's fantastic. So here she is down in fairyland. She's asked to dance. She's asked to dance with music so that she's floating and someone is reading, is touching her true soul by asking for her fingers. So what do you think so far? 

 26:46
Vanessa Rogers
It's interesting. I hadn't thought about the finger element, but yeah, go ahead, keep going. 

 26:51
Donna Lee Fields
Okay, so we have the fingers, and then we have two more. We have food and the voice. So food is very interesting because we know this in other stories. In Greek mythology, very often you're not supposed to eat food if you're invited by some spirit on the other side. You're not supposed to drink or take any bite of food because then you have to stay forever. Now, we are taught that's a bad thing, to stay forever. But my. What I have considered is that being down there is knowing yourself more truly, is getting to know your true nature, is letting go of all of societal expectations. And so she's not. She doesn't eat the food when she's offered. She doesn't drink anything and she escapes. 

 27:39
Donna Lee Fields
They throw her out because for us, we're supposed to think, thank goodness they threw out, she can go back home. But what does she do? She runs back to her home, she locks herself in and curls up in her bed. Now, to me, that's not a very attractive thought. When she was with fairies, she was free and she was happy and she had friends around her friends. She had people who cared about her. I say, and so why is it so important that we don't eat food which nourishes us? Why is it so important that we don't drink the wine, which could just let us let go of a lot of judgment and ego and all of that sort of thing? 

 28:18
Vanessa Rogers
Well, I think maybe what I see is that it's not a choice. Like, if you eat, then you are stuck. Then you don't have the choice. So eating, it has to be your choice whether or not you want to stay or go. And it was kind of mischievously like a trick, like it was just offered to her without her knowing that by her taking a bite, then she would have to remain there for all eternity. And so I think that, particularly for me, would make it Less of an appealing thought of wanting to stay if I'm being tricked into it. 

 29:03
Donna Lee Fields
Okay. So I think that's very. I think that's very important to consider that it is sort of a trick if you don't know. But if you do know, if she did know that she. She heard a whisper in her ear, don't drink anything. You'll feel have to stay forever. Now, is that her ego talking? Is that her consciousness talking? Is that a voice from society? 

 29:22
Vanessa Rogers
Yeah. It was unclear who the voice was from, and I thought that was interesting because I thought it would. I didn't think that a fairy would give her that warning, but maybe it was. Maybe it was someone else who had potentially been another human who had been abducted by the fairies. Because that was one of the points that I was talking, looking at before was it was very common for people to have believed that other humans were being abducted by fairies. And so, I don't know. It's interesting. I hadn't really thought exactly who the voice was from, but I. It was. It was confusing. 

 30:06
Donna Lee Fields
Well, it is confusing, and it's all open to interpretation. And that's what you and I are doing. We're interpret. We're interpreting it, and our listeners can sort of evaluate in another way. But for me, it's more society. It's more of the voices of her mother, of her father, of her neighbors saying, don't enjoy yourself too much. You're not allowed to enjoy yourself. Get out while you can. Come back to where you're. Where you've been living, and live your life the way we tell you to live it. Instead of staying with the fairies, staying with her dreams, staying with desires, being happy like children is what we're supposed to be in my belief system. And I don't even do it very well. Vanessa. I wish I were happier more often. And childlike. Like your children, Society tells us how to act. 

 30:53
Donna Lee Fields
And I see the story of her having an opportunity to reject what society has taught her. 

 31:02
Vanessa Rogers
Well, and then there's also, of course, Eve eating the apple, Right? Eve eating the apple is a choice that she makes, and then it throws them out of the Garden of Eden. And I have read a paper that said it was an absolute choice because it was an apple of knowledge or free will, I guess. And so being in Utopia isn't always necessarily utopia. If nothing happens, there's no happiness without sadness. And so I'm curious if maybe that idea came. I don't know where, you know, at what point it came from, but then there's Also the story of Persephone, right. Persephone also ate food when she was kidnapped by Hades. Is that right? 

 31:53
Donna Lee Fields
Yes. 

 31:53
Vanessa Rogers
And, and so. But she was able to come back on Earth for six months of the year how. Right. Six months of the year actually depends. 

 32:02
Donna Lee Fields
On where the story is told. If it's in the northern countries, it's she's comes back for she has to be in Hades for three months a year or six months or nine months, depending on how cold it is, wherever. 

 32:16
Vanessa Rogers
Country, the story, because she's around during the warmer months, like spring and summer. Right, right. 

 32:25
Donna Lee Fields
So it depends how much, how long your winter is, wherever you're telling the story. But yes, absolutely. 

 32:29
Vanessa Rogers
And my other thought about food though, was that in our culture, if someone is offering you food, it is rude not to accept it. And so I found that really fascinating that it's important in fairy world that if, unless you want to be stuck there, that you can't accept any food or any drink without having to stay there forever. But in our society, if you were being offered food, you can't refuse it without coming off as a rude individual. 

 33:03
Donna Lee Fields
That's interesting. You know, I'm American and I probably believe that to a point, but I'm vegan, so it's very easy for me to say, I'm sorry, I'm vegan, I can't eat. That. 

 33:20
Vanessa Rogers
Made me bolder. 

 33:20
Donna Lee Fields
If someone hands me a plate of cake that looks delicious, but I know that has more sugar in it than any, you know, than in the grocery store, then I usually say no. So am I being really rude? I may be. 

 33:33
Vanessa Rogers
I don't know. I think there's exceptions, right. If you have an excuse, but if you're just saying no to food for no real apparent reason, I think that makes, that makes it come off as, I don't want your food. Right. You off your. 

 33:49
Donna Lee Fields
Yeah. And in this story, the fairies were very offended. They were angry. 

 33:52
Vanessa Rogers
So they were angry. Yeah. 

 33:54
Donna Lee Fields
But then there's the last one that I wanted to be sure to talk about was the fifth element that I wanted to sort of present as her. The journey, her spiritual journey that she rejected was this voice. You know, first she heard a voice saying, don't eat the food, and then she hears a voice saying, you didn't eat it this time, but just wait till next year. So this sort of disembodied voice. What does a voice mean? Usually voices represent our personal truth and it's authenticity and it's about. Can also be spiritual communication, which in this case, it was more spiritual. So voice can be the soul's expression and spiritual awakening. So it's, again, the fifth element of the story that I thought it was important to present as possibly she was offered a spiritual awakening and she rejected it. What do you think? 

 34:50
Vanessa Rogers
I mean, anything is possible. That's not how I interpreted it, but I interpreted it as, you should not come back out on Halloween night because you. You should have known better. The tales tell not to come out on Halloween night. And what were you doing gathering water when you know that the other worlds are opened at this time. But I think that's the literal translation. Right. You're looking at the more symbolic relationships, and that's potentially, you know, a potential reading of it. 

 35:26
Donna Lee Fields
That's why we do this, because there are different ways to look at the story. Either the literal way, or I just go deeper. Whether it's too deep, I don't know. I enjoy it. 

 35:37
Vanessa Rogers
Well, I think it's important to look at it from all angles, and I appreciate that you're able to do that. 

 35:44
Donna Lee Fields
So let's just. I'm not sure which way you want to go now, but I would like to sort of address the whole connotation of abduction, because was she abducted by the fairies or was she embraced by the fairies? 

 35:58
Vanessa Rogers
Yeah. So what were your. What were your thoughts about that? Because I. I did a little bit of research on abductions as well. Okay. 

 36:06
Donna Lee Fields
Well, obviously, since I've been talking about her having the opportunity of a spiritual awakening, and I. I would say that she was embraced by the fairy, she was welcomed into their world, and she rejected it. But usually we hear these stories as an objection. So let's hear what research you've found. 

 36:25
Vanessa Rogers
So I wanted to know why fairies wanted humans and a lot of the adoption, you know, and we asked this question with Rumpelstiltskin as well. And Rumpelstiltskin, when we. When were talking about it, was. What was he? We define. I think I defined him as a goblin. But a lot of these tales, when we use these words, trolls, elves, fairies, goblins, they're kind of all intermingled. And now we kind of have distinctions in our brains about what those. What those signify and what they mean. But I think. I think that actually there was a lot of interchanging between what a fairy was, if it was more like a goblin, and it depended on the area. So I don't think that there were these. These strict line distinctions that we have today when we think about fairies. 

 37:21
Vanessa Rogers
So I think in some interpretations, Rumpelstiltskin could be considered a fairy who wanted a baby. Just like a lot of fairies would steal babies and replace them with an older fairy as a changeling. And that was one of the most common abduction stories that you would hear, is that a perfectly healthy baby would be replaced by a sickly baby. And when they would notice that their baby was sickly, they would consider that it was a fairy that had stolen their healthy baby and replaced it with a dying fairy that just happened to look like their baby. It was. There was a really interesting case, and this was very rare, but in 1895, there was an Irish crime record in the National Archives. There was a woman named Bridget Cleary, and she went missing on the night of March 15th. 

 38:23
Vanessa Rogers
And she had been killed by her husband, her father, her aunt and her cousins and two men. A lot of people were involved in her murder. And they, one week later, they did an extensive search and her body was found by the police. And it was found that Bridget had become seriously ill. And the family was convinced that she was actually a changeling, that her illness was that of a changeling, and they were trying to drive the changeling away. Now, the interesting part about this, and this is very weird, is that it was part of legend not torture and kill a changeling, because then you're human would have revenge exacted upon them. And so usually only threats were given to the changeling to try and get them to go back and change places once again. 

 39:23
Vanessa Rogers
But Bridget died of her torture from her family because they believed that she was a changeling. So that was a rare instance. But it was so strongly held belief that this was a potential, you know, something that could actually happen, that they killed their own family member when she became sick. So the different reasons they listed for punishment for abductions was punishment. One is for trespassing or doing something like going into a territory that is fairy territory. Don't go into a fairy mound, don't go into a fairy ring. There's always those stories like, don't touch those, don't mess with those, because fairies will come back and take the revenge. And so genetics, it's also thought that fairies needed the red blood of humans in order to better their genetic stock. And so they would often take prettier babies because fairies had uglier babies. 

 40:33
Vanessa Rogers
It was a little unclear. And so finer children were thought to have more desirous of the fairies. And they had a preference, a strong preference for blondes, actually. And one person quoted I, I found a funny quote. So fairies get Some cute babies. And also find a cheap retirement home for grandpa. Two birds, one stone for the changeling. Sometimes they were thought that humans, they wanted human servants. And so that's one reason why they would steal boys so that they could have human servants. And then there was also a lot of overlap with symbolism with death and illness and disability when it came with the fairies and the dead. And so a lot of these changelings situations or abduction situations happened during vulnerable times in the lives of mothers and infants. Right after a mother died, gave birth to a child. If the. 

 41:39
Vanessa Rogers
If the mother died during childbirth or directly afterwards, they thought that she was carried off to fairyland. And the same type of thing infants were most vulnerable before they were baptized. And so different things that they would do to protect their children is to baptize them as quickly as possible. Sometimes they would put urine on them because fairies didn't want dirty babies. Sometimes they would put tongs of iron across their crib because fairies didn't like things like iron or salt. And so there were all sorts of different things that people would do to protect themselves from fairies. It was said that you needed to make sure. Okay, here are some. If you. To keep fairies at bay, garlands of marigolds, primroses at your door, the wood of ash, rowan or blackthorn, a bag of clover around your neck were all means of self protection. 

 42:37
Vanessa Rogers
Sometimes people would turn their coat inside out when passing a fairy. So these are all things that people did to prevent being abducted from fairies. But I think in a lot of cases, it was. It was a scapegoat. If someone died, if someone was lost, if someone ran away, if someone was missing, fairies were to blame. 

 43:01
Donna Lee Fields
Yeah, I think the people. That's the lore. What you've been explaining is the lore about fairies that I think it's important to know about. Now that I'm getting more into mysticism, I see that there's a big difference between how fairies are depicted in stories and the other way we can see them is that fairies. I believe fairies do exist, but they are opportunities for spiritual giving us spiritual wisdom, giving us an opportunity to dig deeper into ourselves. The way I understand fairies, either in stories or outside of stories, is that they are a bridge between the human world and the spiritual realm, which is what we're seeing in this story. And it's not so much an abduction. And I'm not saying I don't agree with what you're saying. It's just that I see the story differently. 

 43:50
Donna Lee Fields
I see it as fairies giving her being the bridge, giving her the opportunity to delve into the spiritual realm, to sort of practice magic, to experience enchantment and experience the world of fairies and perhaps make different choices in her life. So both are valid. 

 44:12
Vanessa Rogers
What about liminal spaces? Do you do any work or research into liminal spaces or do you have any knowledge of liminal spaces? No, but I. 

 44:20
Donna Lee Fields
No, we talked about this a little bit, and you did you know what this is, so why don't you tell us? 

 44:27
Vanessa Rogers
So liminal spaces, or sometimes they're called thin spaces, are places that. Where the veil, like were talking about, the wall between the other worlds and our world, is the most thinnest. And like we talked about before, Halloween is a time period when the wall or the veil is the thinnest. But there are also places, physical places, that are thought to be places where you can connect with those other worlds. And so there were lots of places. One of the things that I looked up was wells. Because originally when I was thinking in my story, in my head about the story, I know I read the story with a spring, she went to the water. She went to the spring to get water for her household. And for me, I just read it a well, because I imagined her having a well. 

 45:21
Vanessa Rogers
But when I went back to the story, it was actually a spring. But either way, it was believed that waters from the other world flowed into our world as springs and rivers. And if you look at most ancient sites, a lot of holy sites are around water, around springs, around rivers. And I found this interesting quote that says it is thought that there may be over 600 sites of holy wells in Britain, although some sources say more than 3,000. But all over the world, sacred wells exist as shrines and places of worship. So it's not just in Ireland or in Britain that it's believed that water is a place of holiness or spirituality. But all over the world. And so I wanted to. I was trying to figure out, how does she fall into this other world? 

 46:20
Vanessa Rogers
Where was she in particular that caused her to fall into the fairy world? And it was right when she was at the spring and getting water and she tripped and she just happened to trip into the thin wall. There were other places. If you think of any natural place, that's where fairies or other worldly creatures are going to be found, right? Hawthorn trees, lone hawthorn trees were thought to be a place where you could go into other worlds. Ancient burial mounds were another place where the other world entrance doors were caves. Places of those nature were how you could enter other world. And like I said before it was a strong belief in Ireland and by many today, or I'm not sure many, but some today, that there are other worlds. 

 47:22
Vanessa Rogers
And if you see that in the scientific term, as, you know, parallel dimensions, you can see it as a spiritual, how Christians see it as heaven and hell. Those are, you know, different dimensions that we're, you know, near and far. Some people are very. Have a strong belief in the ghostly world. Right. And so a lot. There are a lot of beliefs all over the world that you can find these liminal spaces to enter or to make connection with these other worlds. 

 48:01
Donna Lee Fields
I love that you brought up so many different places. And I want to just go back just very briefly to the water aspect, because we talked about in one of our episodes, maybe in the third or fourth episode, about how the Earth can be. The Earth to me is a living being. It's ascension being. And we need to. What we're doing is helping her wake up. But if you believe that, then there are different parts of the Earth that are. That are. Correspond to the parts of our human bodies. And so you can say that, you know, there, the crown chakra is up in as Antarctica and the spine is where the Andes, for instance, the whole mountain range and water is considered to be the blood of the earth. So it would correspond to our red blood. It's her. 

 48:48
Donna Lee Fields
The water is her blood. And so it comes up in so many different places on the Earth. So if we're touching water and she fell into water, she's really falling into the very bloodstream of the Earth. And where would she find more power than that? Where would she find more access to a different realm than in the very bloodstream of a planet? So I think that's a way to look at it. 

 49:15
Vanessa Rogers
Well, I think we've covered most of what I researched. I'm glad that you enjoyed the story more than you. You thought, oh, you had something about sashes. 

 49:27
Donna Lee Fields
I did. I'll talk about that really quickly. I don't know if it's the most important thing, but they really did make a point of talking about the king who had a red sash and a gold band on his head. And so I wanted to look up what the meaning of sashes are. And historically they're used exclusively by emperors and kings. And it's a symbol of authority and leadership. And he didn't introduce himself as the king, but with this red sash he presented himself. His whole posture is, I am a leader here. And so I have the authority, I have the power to help you make a Change. That's how I interpret it. And the goal, the red is throughout history, something, you know, only red is more expensive to make in historically. And it's also considered to be. 

 50:15
Donna Lee Fields
It's showing that you are an important person. You have the money to. To have red clothes made, and you want to stand out. The only other part of that was his gold band. I thought, you know, gold has a different vibration. It's considered by mystics to have an. Everything has vibration, and gold has a very specific vibration. And he didn't just have a gold band on his head. They drank out of golden cups. And that is, again, it's considered to be an extension, a way into divine getting, gaining divine wisdom, personal empowerment. And so it just reinforces the whole idea to me that this is a gorgeous story about someone being given the chance to dig deeper into herself. And she was too scared. So that's fine. We don't want to judge her in this instance, she's too scared. 

 51:05
Donna Lee Fields
But at the end, the voice says, just wait till next year. Let's just hope she makes a different choice next year. She's like, I'm all in. 

 51:15
Vanessa Rogers
But I'm. I wonder if, you know, people who are abducted into the fairy world have, you know, fairies are not thought to die. They're immortal, right? Or sometimes some. I guess, in some beliefs that they do die and they're afraid of Judgment Day. And that was specifically after Christians took over the pagan areas. But it's. 

 51:44
Donna Lee Fields
It's. 

 51:45
Vanessa Rogers
What happens to humans. Are they. Do they turn immortal as well? Or do they continue to age like their human bodies normally would? 

 51:55
Donna Lee Fields
Are you talking about humans that are, I would say, embraced into the world of fairies? 

 52:00
Vanessa Rogers
Yes. 

 52:02
Donna Lee Fields
I've never. I. We don't know. We don't know what the lore is about that. The folklore is about that. My answer to you and what I believe is that once you get into the fairy world, you have transitioned to an. Into a different vibration. What I believe in our world, our 3D world, is that these are space suits, and these are great for what we. We need now, but the body will die. We will live eternally, just like fairies do. So. But you know who. I would say a human in the fairy world is doing pretty well. 

 52:40
Vanessa Rogers
My last thought was I was really curious as to why there was even a fairy story about Halloween. Because most of the time, at least in American lore, right, we love to talk about monsters, right? We'd like to talk about ghosts and goblins and zombies and scary witches, right? But it is. I Think that it is something to consider that the way that we in modern day think of fairies a lot of times, like, we have this image of the Disney fairy, the Tinkerbell fairies, of being sweet and kind, but fairies, for a lot of the ancient people were frightening. And so. And maybe it's just because, like you were saying, they were the unknown. Right. But they did like to play mischievous tricks on people. 

 53:41
Vanessa Rogers
So I guess that would be why it would be a part of Halloween, because tricks are a really important part of Halloween, are they not, in mischievousness? 

 53:52
Donna Lee Fields
And I would just say it's about culture. You know, the Irish. For the Irish. The fairies are very potent. We were just saying they're very potent personalities. And so it was easier to say fairies. They didn't need to make up monsters. For us, we have that, as you say, Walt Disney view of fairies. Although Tinkerbell wasn't that nice. 

 54:09
Vanessa Rogers
You're right. You're right. You know, we always compare everything to Tinkerbell, but when you watch, I don't know. I haven't read Peter Pan, but when I watched Peter Pan with my children, I was quite surprised at how much of a bee Tinker Bell was. She was not a very kind person. She was the Peter Pan, but not to Wendy. I mean, she did try and kill her. 

 54:30
Donna Lee Fields
Right. But again, that's a grande size. But, yeah, it's interesting that it was chosen. But it's an Irish tale for Halloween. Very important. It's very cultural in that respect. So. 

 54:43
Vanessa Rogers
Right. Yes. 

 54:44
Donna Lee Fields
But I. Yeah, I love talking about this, as usual with you, Vanessa. 

 54:49
Vanessa Rogers
Well, and I would just want to encourage our audience. If you have thoughts about what we've been talking about, we would love to hear from you. So if you. If you're watching on Apple or on. Sorry, not watching. You're not watching on Apple. You're listening on a podcast. But if you're watching on YouTube, you can comment down below. You can always comment on my website where I post these up, which is www.fabricafolklore.com. And they're also on Donna's YouTube. I believe it's on the doorways to learning. Right. 

 55:24
Donna Lee Fields
Yeah. Yeah. So please, yeah, let us know what you think. 

 55:27
Vanessa Rogers
We want to hear your thoughts. Do you believe in other worlds? Do you believe in fairies? Do you believe fairies have a place in Halloween tales today? Do you have a fun Halloween story for. For us to delve into for maybe next year? Or maybe a Christmas story that you want us to talk about in December? And so we would love to hear from you. Make sure you're hitting that subscribe button so you get notifications when our podcast drops every month, because this is a monthly podcast and we love doing this with y'all and want to continue doing it. 

 56:07
Donna Lee Fields
Thank you, Vanessa. This is wonderful. Thank you all listeners. And I'm just going to add one more question. Was it an abduction or was it an embrace, a welcome into their world? 

 56:16
Vanessa Rogers
What a very excellent question. Yes. We want to hear what your thoughts are. And join us next month, hopefully in November instead of early December, for La Llorona, when we talk about that very famous story, which I think you will also very much love. 

 56:34
Donna Lee Fields
Yeah. 

 56:35
Vanessa Rogers
Until next time, keep the fairy tales alive.