Fabric of Folklore
Folktales can be strange, mystical, macabre and intriguing. Join us as we explore the stories, culture and people behind the folklore. We go beyond retelling the legends, myths and fairy tales of old. We look at the story behind the lore, behind the songs and traditions to understand more about what they mean, and their importance. These stories, many originating as oral histories, inform us of what it means to be human; what it means to be an integral part of this Earth. Stories of magic and wonder bind us. They connect us through invisible strands, like the gossamer fibers of a spiders web. Folktales have the power to demonstrate how, although we live in drastically different locals, our hearts and minds beat as one human race. We are weaving the fabrics of our past and present stories, to help us better understand ourselves and to awaken us to a more compassionate and caring world community. As we explore the meaning of existence through folklore we hope to inspire future generations to lead with love and understanding.
Fabric of Folklore
Ep 14: Fairy Tale Flip: La Befana, The Italian Christmas Witch
Have you ever wondered why some folktales stand the test of time, captivating generation after generation? Join me, Vanessa Y Rogers, and my insightful co-host Donna Lee Fields from Scaffolding Magic, as we unravel the enchanting legend of La Befana, Italy's beloved witchy gift-giver. This episode of Fairytale Flip takes you on a journey through the intriguing story of Old Bafana—a tale wrapped in Christmas, Epiphany traditions, and the enduring themes of redemption and transformation. As we explore the cultural significance of La Befana and compare her to other global gift-bringers like Austria's Perchta, and the three Magi you'll discover how these narratives resonate with personal experiences and highlight the universal values of giving and renewal.
Our conversation delves into the portrayal of La Befana in literature and culture, sparked by the children's book of author Tommy dePaola. Together, we explore the evolving representation of older women in today's media, as well as the dual nature of La Befana as both a cherished and satirical figure to the symbolic significance of rituals like wood burning in various cultures, our discussion invites you to rethink and reimagine these rich narratives.
As we journey through Epiphany traditions worldwide, our exploration uncovers intriguing cultural interpretations and symbolism, such as the of sweeping and the mysterious chimneys through which La Befana delivers her gifts. These themes are woven into a broader tapestry of renewal and transformation—a reminder that even the most old-fashioned tales can offer fresh insights. So, join us as we celebrate these timeless stories, questioning and reshaping our understanding of them, while embracing the power of redemption, generosity, and cultural diversity.
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Fabric of Folklore website
Welcome. Welcome to another episode of Fairytale Flip. I'm Vanessa Y Rogers and my co-host is Donna Lee Fields from Scaffolding Magic. I have a podcast called Fabrica Folklore and every month we come together and we discuss fairytale and kind of dissect that we look at its hidden meanings, its symbolism, its history and what it means for us in modern days. This month we are choosing a story called La Bafana Sometimes it's called Old Bafana and Donna is going to give a summary of this story.
Donna Lee Fields:Okay, thank you, hi, I'm Donna, yes, and it's such a pleasure to be here with Vanessa, as usual, let's see if we can find some really interesting tidbits about this legend. Legend of Hotel. So I'm going to tell you the story of Old Bafana, which is particular to Italy. Hopefully, I never heard of it before. Vanessa chose this one and I love her choices, so I've been really interested in finding out the history of it. And Old Bafana is really about Bafana and the wise men, and it's a Christmas tale which is usually only told in Italy, but let's go into it. Tale which is usually only told in Italy, but let's go into it.
Donna Lee Fields:So one night the three wise men were following the story of Bethlehem, as we know they did, and they stopped at old Bifana's house to ask for directions. And old Bifana is known in the neighborhood as a woman who was very antisocial. She baked and she swept and she swept and she baked all day long, and she didn't talk to anyone else. But these three wise men came to her house, asked her for directions for Bethlehem and she pretty much ignored him. She was very rude to them. She the Magi invited them even though she was rude and even though she didn't know where the child Jesus was born. They invited her to join them on the journey and she said no, she had too much work to do.
Donna Lee Fields:And then later, after they left, she realized that she might have made a mistake. And so what she did is she started baking obsessively, and then, after she baked, she realized her house was still dirty, so she started sweeping even more obsessively, and then she packed up all what she baked and she ran to try to catch up with the three wise men, but she never could. And what happened is she kept running and running and finally she started running up in the sky, and now she's known as Old Bafana, who wanders the skies in the Epiphany Eve and she's looking for the Christ child. And what she does now is what the folk tale or the legend says is that she visits every home, leaving gifts for the Christ child. And what she does now is what the folk tale or the legend says is that she visits every home, leaving gifts for the good children and for the children who haven't been so wonderful coal. And she has a lot of symbolism with it all, and that's what we're going to go into.
Donna Lee Fields:So, Viespa, I'm going to ask you what you always ask me why did you choose this tale and how long have you known about it? Also?
Vanessa Rogers:I just learned about it this year. So I came across it when I was looking up different mythical creatures for Christmas and I was kind of intrigued by her. And you know I usually do an episode every month, but we didn't do one for December and so I had suggested La Bafana, because we could do it in the very beginning of January and it would still be very close to the time that La Bafana generally gives gifts, which is January 6th, which is Epiphany Day, and so I thought it would, you know, kind of cover Christmas and also cover a partially separate holiday, but it's within the 12 days of Christmas celebration. So I was really intrigued by that element.
Vanessa Rogers:To La Bafana was when I was reading the story and the three wise men come and they have the three gifts that they're going to give to the baby Jesus and she decides no, I want to give the mother presence of treats and I also want to clean up for her.
Vanessa Rogers:And to me, speaking as a mother that spoke to me, Because you know three men giving these really obscure gifts, although gold, I guess, is not that obscure, but in the moment gold does not do you very much good. I loved gifts of service, when people would come and help out with things around my house and also when they would feed me, Because when you have a newborn child, they take up every ounce of energy and space in your life, and so I felt like she was speaking my language, Whereas the three Wiseman gifts, especially now, so far removed from the time period I know that they had a lot more significance during that time period when they were being given, but baked goods and someone cleaning for me that sounded like a perfect gift to me when I had a newborn child.
Donna Lee Fields:Yeah, I love it, and you have three, so you've had three newborn child children, yeah, so I I really do like that there. It is a really nice note in the story that she was focused on the mother, not just not the child necessarily, and and that's really nice because people do focus on the, the babies, because they're so sweet and so have so much possibilities. But especially in the story and I didn't grow up Catholic, I'm not Christian and um, I think I I take these stories more globally, more, um, you know, more holistically. But the mother of this pure baby was pure herself and Bafana, even though she didn't know the mother, really recognized her as such, as as a pure person who needed to, needed to be recognized as such, and she brought her broom to sweep the wherever the baby was going to be born. It really was a very sweet touch now.
Vanessa Rogers:You currently live in mexico and you have lived in spain. Have you come across any epiphany celebrations in the countries that you have lived in?
Donna Lee Fields:well, that's really interesting. I think mexico is more, more religious. Spain is a Catholic country, but they're not really religious. The culture is more Catholic, but it's a very small part of the population that really goes to church and is devout. In Mexico, they're much more. It's going to sound really judgmental when I say this, but they're more honest about their religion. Going to sound really judgmental when I say this, but they're more honest about their religion. They really do live their religion and I really do appreciate that. And so epiphanies. Since I'm not really focused on it, vanessa, I don't really I can't say yes, there are a lot of celebrations, but in Mexico there are more.
Vanessa Rogers:Yeah Well, I remember as a child hearing about people getting three wiseman gifts in january, and I wasn't from, I didn't know what that was. Um, I I didn't see it, uh, or hear many people talk about it, but I I didn't know that it happened and I just didn't really know much about it okay.
Donna Lee Fields:So yeah, in spain christmas is less important than the three kings Day, which is January 6. So it's the same thing, yeah, but again, it's a day of it's more commercial than anything. It's not religious for the popular culture. So when you say epiphany, I don't think of the King's Day as an epiphany, because that's very religious and it's sacred. So that's my answer here Commercial or religious.
Vanessa Rogers:I think it's always a little intertwining. Did you have a reaction to it or any other reaction to the story when you first read it? Because I remember sending it to you and you saying, oh, I really like this story, I see a lot of symbolism.
Donna Lee Fields:I know and I wish I had found, I wish I'd saved that link where I found all the symbolism. And I found another one, but I didn't realize when I first saw it that that Bafana was a religious figure or that was really tied to a religious day. I didn't realize that then but and so I was very excited because, you know, I love symbolism, but I do. I started reading and I'm not I'm not crazy about stories that are tied to one day or one religion and that sort of thing, so I wasn't really enthusiastic about it at first. But, as always, when I start researching and find symbolism and finding different ties to other cultures and other tales, then I get excited and so, yeah, now I see a lot of different ways. And also, since you also know that I think it's very important to look at these stories and see how they influence us as children and how they influence children.
Donna Lee Fields:You have three that listen to you all the time. It's very important to be aware that they might be giving us subliminal messages that may or may not be what we want, and so we're going to go there as well. Okay, yeah, but the first thing I really need to establish this Now, when I look it up, it says the Legend of Old Bafana Old Bafana but I found something that says it actually is a folktale. It has supernatural powers, it comes from one specific culture, it doesn't have a specific author and it teaches a lesson. What would you think?
Vanessa Rogers:so the title, the legend of old bufana is by tommy de paula, who is a very famous italian, american uh, children's illustrator and author. He wrote a lot of different. He took a lot of different folk tales and made them, uh, into books. So one of my absolutely favorite folktales of his is the Legend of the Blue Bonnet, which is very specific to Texas because that is our state flower. Another of his books is the legend I think it's just called Strega Nona, and that is Strega is witch and nona is grandmother in italian, and that is another folk tale. So he is famous for taking folk tales and popularizing them. Um, and so I, you know I'm not a folklore, so I, I I'm gonna take a stab here. It is a legend in that it is rooted in a time and a place, but I think it's primarily told as a folktale, because I don't believe people feel that there's truth to it. So that's my take.
Donna Lee Fields:Okay, I like that. People know that there's no truth to it. So let's talk about, if you don't mind, how about if we start with her physical appearance, because that also is very important to me, and about the subliminal messages. And first of all, we always, in English, you always say old Bafana. It's not Bafana. She's portrayed as an old woman with just a couple of teeth. She has raggedy clothes. She doesn't even have the high boots that a witch in most fairy tales would have. She has low shoes and comfortable socks, so she looks like an innocuous person who won't hurt anyone. My question is why does the? But later on she's portrayed as this woman that is very generous, she gives gifts, she saw the light. At first, she rejected what the three wise men wanted her to do, which is go with them and celebrate the birth of this very special baby. So why is it that she had to be portrayed as an old woman who was obsessive, who had old clothes? That bothers me.
Vanessa Rogers:Oh, that's interesting. The old element bothers you, I think. I think primarily because, um, she's grumpy and we think of a lot of grumpy people as older, even if they're not necessarily old. The grumpiness makes someone feel older. Do you know what I mean? Like, if I feel like crankiness ages a person.
Donna Lee Fields:That's so funny. I love that. It's very possible and that could be at any age actually, because there are a lot of grumpy 20, 30 year olds aren't there, Right?
Vanessa Rogers:Yes, and if you look at like TV television, you know. If you look at older shows, like when I was a child and I was watching people who were my age, you know. If you look at older shows, like when I was a child and I was watching people who were my age, you know who are in the middle age. I feel like they were portrayed looking much older than our generation currently dresses and looks like the way they they're. They portrayed themselves, seemed like they, they looked older, whereas I feel like my generation, which is I'm an elderly millennial that's what I'm called the geriatric millennials we still kind of dress with a youthful flair. I don't really know, but I've seen people comment on this trend where in the past, middle-aged people dressed frumpier and now it's not quite the case.
Donna Lee Fields:Well, I think that's really important, because when I was younger I think I'm about 20 years older than you and we used to think that all of a sudden you become an adult, and when you become an adult you have to dress differently and you act differently. So we're talking about something similar, but, if you notice, even in the ads they're now portraying older women as beautiful, as wearing beautiful, flowing clothes, and so there is a movement to show older women as different than frumpy, yeah, and so we have Bafana, who's the same thing. You know, she has an apron on and this, to me, this comes from the fact that we know now that the Catholic Church took so many pagan holidays and made them Christian, just to sort of appease the general public. But they had to. They couldn't have a beautiful woman because that would be for them too threatening, so they had to make this woman who was so beloved in this legend, to make sure that she was ugly and frumpy and grumpy.
Vanessa Rogers:I found several different descriptions of her. It says most modern representation is she's an elderly woman with a dark shawl, wearing a kerchief on her head and writing a broom. Most of the time she's writing it backwards. Sometimes she's described as being ugly and toothless, while there have been iconographies that show her with feline teeth that are sharp and she has a cutting tongue and a sooty face from all the chimneys that she's going down tongue and a sooty face from all the chimneys that she's going down.
Vanessa Rogers:Grimm I'm not sure which brother Grimm described her as a misshapen fairy, which I thought was interesting, and there's a lot of different controversial elements about her, and I thought that I found this quote from a folklorist. He summed it like this she is grandmotherly but witch-like, the target of endless mockery, but deeply beloved, ridiculous and dignified domestic, yet a wanderer, weak and dependent, yet feared and powerful. She is an old woman played by a young man. So I guess in all of these processions and all of these uh locations in italy where they have labafana, uh days where they're they're celebrating labafana, she's played by a young man dressed up as an old hag. Interesting.
Donna Lee Fields:Well, see, now let's go to what I think that she symbolizes, because what I really like is that there's a lot of depth to her. She sweeps obsessively. She's very antisocial, and what is this sweeping? And what happens? She's sweeping obsessively. She wears an apron also, by the way, so what you were saying.
Donna Lee Fields:There's this big contradiction in between someone who takes care of the home but also someone who wanders, which is the opposite of what most women are portrayed to do. Mostly men are the wanders and women stay at home. So there's a really nice contradiction there that I like. But also, this sweeping symbolizes any of us who have an obsession about something. So if we're so obsessed with what we're doing that we're ignoring an incredible opportunity, we need to look at that, and that's one thing I really like about her.
Donna Lee Fields:So she's sweeping obsessively, she rejects the whole opportunity of going to this blessed event and then she realizes, she changes her mind and realizes what she's done and she goes after it. And it's described almost as if this weight on her is being lifted, this weight of having to obsessively clean we could say anything, obsessively do art, obsessively read, obsessively eat Whatever it is we're obsessive about. All of a sudden it leaves her, and she literally flies up into the sky, and so the weight is now off of her, she realizes that she doesn't have to be obsessed about something that is fairly meaningless and menial, and that she now she's flying through the sky and she becomes a sort of goddess, which I like. So this is a lesson we learned from the story.
Vanessa Rogers:I found it interesting that she was so grumpy and she was not friendly, and yet she keeps this incredibly tidy house. Who is she keeping it tidy for? Like I know, everyone has their own ways of keeping house, and generally I clean my house when people are going to come over, like that's, I'm cleaning for other people, but she's cleaning for herself, or maybe it's like you said, it's just an obsession. It's something that she has to hold on to. Um. The element of sweeping is interesting, though, because I found that there are these parallels with the Roman goddess that she is connected with, and she sweeps away the old year's troubles and hardships, making way for renewal and prosperity in the new year, and so that was one of the symbolisms I found of what the sweeping represented that she's sweeping and clearing out all last year's echoes and last year's troubles and customs, and making way for the new year of prosperity.
Donna Lee Fields:Yeah, I love that and I think that's absolutely one of the ways we can look at it. And the other way is that she's she's sweeping for no one, as you say, there's no one's visiting her. She's sweeping obsessively, she's baking obsessively and doesn't invite anyone over and we in fact never see her eating. So I would you know me, I would say it's more that this obsessive need to do something in, instead of taking this opportunity of you know, a blessed something that might mean more to her is what I would say. But the interesting thing also is that you were saying she wears a kerchief, and a kerchief is often seen and symbolizes a trip. It's a chance you're going to go see places. So again, we have this dichotomy of this woman who's obsessed about her home and doesn't want to leave it, but she's dressed with a symbolism of someone who's going to be traveling, Mm-hmm.
Donna Lee Fields:Yeah, there's also the symbolism of the broom is, which I also like, because you're saying sweeping away the old year. A broom also can symbolize sweeping out bad energy, negative energy, and so she keeps sweeping out negative energy. And look what she brings in. She brings in the three wise men. Yeah, that's pretty beautiful. So another way we can look at. What's happening is yes, she's obsessive about cleaning something that's meaningless, but also if she's cleaning away bad energy. She did it. She got to another side, she broke karma, which is beautiful too.
Vanessa Rogers:Yeah, really a redemptive story.
Donna Lee Fields:Yeah, I think so All right. What else have you been interested in about the story?
Vanessa Rogers:Well, I wanted to know how far back the story went. And the story is linked to Roman traditions, like we were talking about before. A lot of these traditions were kind of incorporated from pagan rituals and taken by the church and remade in church language Because people didn't want to give up their old traditions. And so the church, instead of making the people give up their old traditions, just kind of rebranded, and so the roots are connected to Strenia, which was a Roman goddess who's associated with the new year, purification and fertility, and there was a festival people would also burn, they would give branches of vervarian, which was from a sacred grove, as a good omen on the first day, and then they would also burn branches and leaves and things. I'm not really sure what that symbolized for them. It was originally introduced by King Tatius. He was a Roman king, and so this makes it as old as at least 2,700 years old.
Vanessa Rogers:And you were mentioning the witch element, which is believed to have come in during the Middle Ages, because that's when a lot of the Middle Evil superstitions about witches and spirits really started to take shape, I guess, in the minds of Christianity, and so I think that's really when that witch look got tacked on to old Bafana and then she really got firmed up in the Renaissance period as part of the Italian folklore, especially in central and southern Italy, with written records from that period that mentioned and tied her character specifically to Epiphany. And should we define Epiphany? Because you know I wasn't actually, if you're not in the Catholic tradition, I was not familiar with what Epiphany was. Had you heard of that term?
Donna Lee Fields:Well, I use the term a lot. Oh, I just had an Epiphany. An Epiphany is have you had you heard of that term? Well, I use the term a lot. Oh, I just had an epiphany. An epiphany is, you know, sort of something incredible. I made connections, or really strong connections, not just something light. Is that what you've come up with?
Vanessa Rogers:no, it actually has a. Um, I'm trying to find. I found the actual definition of what Epiphany was, but Epiphany and the 12th night of Christmas are the same day and I don't know if they're celebrated the same by. I think they're celebrated differently. I did look up. I'll find what it meant, but let me go into a little bit of some of the different ways people celebrate Epiphany.
Donna Lee Fields:Okay, but just before you go into it, I did want to comment on the wood burning, because that really is very cross-cultural, because we have wood burning. In Spain, they have faes, which where they burn it, started by burning all the wood the carpenters didn't use for the rest of the year, and now they make these huge structures, supposedly out of wood not anymore and burn it. And in the United States we have burning man, and that is in New Mexico. It's a big celebration, and in California so is that we have other traditions of wood burning. So I like that you brought that up yeah, and I actually had a well, I've.
Vanessa Rogers:I interviewed my guest and I have not aired the show yet. It will come in, it will probably be in February when we air it. But we talk about Burning man and how, at the end of Burning man, all of the structures are burned to the ground and part of that is just releasing things and the act of letting go and allowing yourself not to hold on to everything, and I didn't realize that that was really a core principle of Burning man. Now, I've never been, but I have heard that it can be pretty magical and life-transforming.
Donna Lee Fields:Well, they also do a lot of drugs there, so that's also part of that.
Vanessa Rogers:Do you know that there's a kid section, like a section for families, so now they're trying to make it more family friendly? I guess there's only certain there's probably only certain sections where it's probably safe to bring your children. Okay, probably.
Donna Lee Fields:No, no, it's, it's pretty crazy, it's pretty manic and I never I went to the one in santa fe once okay, with crowds, but it's you know, huge, huge, but it's you know, huge, huge, but it's more Native American. The Burning man in California is pretty we'd say gringo down here, but you know, it's pretty established in the popular culture. What I was, oh shoot. Now I forgot what I oh, the soot thing. So, yeah, again, bafana was covered in soot and it's all about getting. She's sweeping and sweeping and trying to get all that negative energy off of her. And it really the story is about redemption, as you said, where she does get the negative energy off her. She does get the soot, she is burning off negative energy and she literally is lifted and weightless and flying in the sky. So these things work.
Vanessa Rogers:Well, okay, so you, you mentioned that there are three different variations of that I found like main variations of La Bafana. There's the one that Tommy DeFaola wrote about, where she's just a cranky old woman who's kind of, who doesn't make friends easily. The second version, um, that I liked, uh, is she is a grieving mother who lost her child to Herod, who killed all of the firstborns when he learned that there was going to make sure no child took over as king. He had all of the firstborns murdered and she's actually a grieving mother and that's why she's cranky. And the third version I heard was that she is basically a healer, and healers, as we know, have this kind of controversy around them because people try and keep them at arm's length until they need them and then they seek them out. Right, they have all of this knowledge.
Vanessa Rogers:And they're intimidating but they're also outsiders, right, they're always considered outsiders, and so one version is that she's a healer and so she's kept at arm's length, but she has this ability to already help others, and those women were always portrayed as witches. A lot of times, right, a lot of times they were called white witches, which in turn, meant that they were good witches, but still with the terminology of a witch, right.
Donna Lee Fields:Okay, so you brought up the like corresponding to Greek mythology twice, and I just wanted to add that what I found is that she has been cross culturally connected to Hecate, from the I don't know if you'd pronounce it differently Hecate. Wouldn't you say?
Vanessa Rogers:Yes, that's how I pronounce it, but I pronounced everything wrong. The Greek goddess.
Donna Lee Fields:I actually looked up how to pronounce Bifana. We're saying it the same way that we would in Italy, so that's good, okay. And we're saying it the same way that we would in Italy, so that's good, okay, okay. What I was going to say is what I find fascinating. Again, this is back to the physical appearance, and the Greek goddesses are, like, lauded for being gorgeous and beautiful and aesthetically pleasing, and I think it's very interesting that it's really the only place where women are what we would say aesthetically pleasing, for whatever culture you're talking about Maybe not the African culture, because they're usually depicted as very slim and blonde and they have Caucasian features normally. And I'm going to go really woo-woo here, I don't know if you want, but what they say about the Greek gods is that they were really, um, depicted as alien cultures, that that sort of founded humanity and sort of seeded for not humanity, and so they were allowed to keep their physical features because they came from figures, characters, people, um, you know, living beings that actually were on the planet, which I find fascinating.
Vanessa Rogers:Okay, wait, wait, okay, let's clarify. So you're saying that the Greek gods and goddesses were actually aliens?
Donna Lee Fields:Well, we would call aliens it's such a horrible word but yeah, they were people from other planets.
Vanessa Rogers:Yeah, Okay, and so they looked so stunning because they weren't actually human.
Donna Lee Fields:I would say that what they say is the Greek gods are really seeded, the part of humanity that are now Scandinavians, and so Scandinavians look very much like what you would depict a Greek goddess and god to be. You can follow that.
Vanessa Rogers:And so, but where in this woo-woo theory? Where are they now?
Donna Lee Fields:Well, they've left the planet, but they've seeded humanity, and so some of us look more like them than others. But I guess the point that I'm bringing it up is that in the Greek mythology they're permitted to retain their beauty, whereas in most other legends women are depicted as being fairly unattractive. And you know homely that sort of thing, and are you, can I?
Vanessa Rogers:Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.
Donna Lee Fields:Okay so anyway, for letting me share that part.
Vanessa Rogers:I'm trying to, I'm just trying to think through that. It's interesting. I'm trying to think of other cultures with different goddesses and gods and how I mean. Really, I only know, you know, of the Celtic gods and goddesses, but I don't know how they're depicted. That's something I feel like we should dive into more on another day because that seems like an interesting trail to follow yeah, just sort of how how women are depicted in in tales.
Donna Lee Fields:Yeah, um, in fairy tales they're. They are beautiful and yet weak and needy. And in greek mythology it's not like that at all. And I guess in the german tradition and the fairy tales and most of the fairy tales that we talk about, the princesses are not able to take care of themselves in most cases right, right.
Vanessa Rogers:They're either the princess, who's the maiden, who has no life experience and needs someone to come save her, or the powerful witch. Right and ugly, powerful, ugly witch right, as in this case.
Donna Lee Fields:And yet in greek mythology they are powerful and they are scary sometimes and they do know how to take care of themselves. That's right, yeah, but what I was going to say just to finish this up, I mean, and she is sometimes thought to be cross-cultural connection to this hecate, and but, um, she's believed, and hecate was believed to be living in both worlds, which I was fascinated with. She's, she holds the keys that that, um, you can go through to change your boundaries, to change your world. And bifana was on the earth and then she lived in the sky. So she also is a division between the physical earth and another boundary, you know the heavens.
Donna Lee Fields:Yeah, I thought that was really interesting yeah, I definitely like that.
Vanessa Rogers:Um, okay, I was gonna talk about different ways people celebrate epiphany around the world.
Vanessa Rogers:Okay yes, okay, so for this, yes, okay, so epiphany, it means the appearance of God, so it's basically the celebration of when the three wise men come and meet baby Jesus. Now, biblical scholars can't actually they don't even actually know if that element of the story has any truth to it. A lot of times the historians try and find where the truth of the biblical stories lie, and I think there's only one element, one story, and that's in Matthew. Of this telling, there are people who name the three wise men, and I think that comes from text outside of the Bible. But within the Bible itself there are no names for these three men who come to visit the baby and they say that it wouldn't take them 12 days, it would have taken them one to two years to actually find Jesus.
Donna Lee Fields:But in, you know, so it's a very important number. 12 is very important yeah.
Vanessa Rogers:Oh, so what does 12?
Donna Lee Fields:signify. Well, I mean, if can we go back to woo-woo, not before. Okay, so 12, there are 12 suns. Um, in each of, in each of the universes of the sun, there are 12 planets. I mean 12 is a very important number. Um, the 12 apostles, you hear. You see 12 over and over again. If you really want an answer, I'm gonna have to research a little bit more. But, um, it's one of those numbers where it's inserted in many fairy tales because it's so important.
Vanessa Rogers:Interesting. Yeah, that is something we'll have to look into. The number 12. Okay so Epiphany celebrates when the three wise men come and give the gifts to the baby Jesus. So this is celebrated all over the world in different ways. So the five main ways that it is celebrated is with gift giving, as in La Bafana, she gives gifts to the children as she's visiting them around Italy, water-related rituals, processions and parades, house blessings and special food. So gift giving happens in countries like Argentina, paraguay, uruguay, philippines. Children often leave out shoes for sweets and money and they're waiting for the three wise men to give them gifts. Not La Bafana, because La Bafana is very specific to Italy, whereas most other countries three wise men visit children and leave gifts. In Spain, they have parades where the three kings distribute gifts. In the parade In Belgium, netherlands and Luxembourg, children go door to door in groups of three and receive coins or treats. Okay so the water-related ones. This marks the baptism of Jesus, so this doesn't always actually happen on January 6th, which is Epiphany. Sometimes it happens a couple weeks later.
Vanessa Rogers:In Bulgaria, young men race to retrieve a wooden cross that's thrown into the water by a priest. In Ethiopia, in Eritrea, a celebration called Timkat features blessing of water and processions. In Ukraine, people swim in icy lake and river believing that the water is blessed. In Romania, they have also a boys' race to swim and grab a cross. There's lots of different parades all over the world. There's 90 cities in Poland that hold a Three Wise Men procession. Puerto Rico, children also lay out food like grass and water for the camels, which I thought was really cute. There's house blessings where people mark doors with chalk for blessings, and also there's more. In austria and germany, children go singing door-to-door um, singing carols for donations.
Vanessa Rogers:And then this is interesting because I did not realize that Mardi Gras in New Orleans is connected to Epiphany. Really, because Epiphany marks the start of carnival season, and so one of the most special foods that is created for Epiphany is the king cake, which basically is like a Bundt cake and there's a baby Jesus. At least in the Mardi Gras ones that we have there's a baby Jesus. At least in the Mardi Gras ones that we have there's a baby Jesus baked in, and so the person who gets the baby Jesus, I think, is lucky. In other places there's a bean, and the person who finds the bean becomes the king or queen for the day, which that sounds really fun. So this is a really common treat with Epiphany. Any thoughts with that? Do you have a king cake in Spain or Mexico? Have you seen that?
Donna Lee Fields:Yeah, that's really popular. That's really popular. And what I love to tell people is the kings are very adaptable, because I used to live on the beach and the kings came in by boat. They didn't come in by camels, they came in by boat, and so, and then they, and then they'd get on. Well then they probably have the camels waiting for them, but instead it was a truck and they'd throw candy. So you know the candy is the gift, but yeah, I mean, as usual, you have all this history, which is so wonderful to know.
Vanessa Rogers:Well, I was also curious why we don't celebrate this in America, like why it's? You know, even people who aren't necessarily religious at all or don't identify with Christianity. A lot of people celebrate Christmas as a giving time, a time to spend with family. They don't necessarily have the tie-in necessarily with Christianity, and so I was just curious where, where this 12th night where the epiphany went, how it's kind of disappeared from our, our culture, and evidently we have shifted our focus towards new years instead, and so there's not really a lot of room for both new years and 12th night is what I came across. And, um, so there's just kind of a mind shift, change that it's no longer Christmas, it's now it's the new year celebration.
Donna Lee Fields:Well, that's interesting. I mean, I would say it's really about commercialism, because there's a big push on Christmas and it would just be one more push that maybe people couldn't handle. I don't know, I know yeah.
Vanessa Rogers:Yeah, I mean, you've already overspent everything right at Christmastime. So one more push for buying, although the gifts from La Bafana and the Three Wise Men are really little, they're not like big gifts, they're just little treats and trinkets. And um, oh, there's a cute little candy that most kids get by with la bafana. Evidently this represents coal. Um, it's like a rock candy that's supposed to be black and evidently all children are supposed to get this because you know, everyone's, everyone's a little naughty, that's right.
Donna Lee Fields:Yeah, well, I like that. Yeah, I would say also, you know, it's all about Americans being so independent also, and it's one less time that we can all get together on the street and learn about each other. So it's probably, it would probably be very beneficial to us to have this sort of this holiday here. Beneficial to us to have this sort of this holiday here, but I think it's Halloween is the closest we get to people visiting neighbors in in what's supposed to be really, um, kind and generous exchange, and that's not even. I think people are nervous about that now at this point, aren't they?
Vanessa Rogers:there is some. I mean, I think at one point people started feeling nervous about it and that's why Trunk or Treats became really popular. I take my kids to Trunk or Treats because they happen prior to Halloween and then we still do Halloween. You see, I mean, I I don't see a lot of controversy, at least in my specific community. Most people I know do do trick-or-treating and they're not actually that anxious about it. One of my very first guests, christina Downs, talked a little bit about the urban legends surrounding Halloween candy and how at one point, there was all these urban legends that talked about children being poisoned or razor blades being put in their candies, and there was like one or two incidences that that actually occurred, but they were by family members. They were not. They were not by neighbors giving out candy. It was specifically family members who poisoned children, their own child or their nephew.
Donna Lee Fields:We have to go to it. We have to leave this behind. We are not going to end on this note.
Vanessa Rogers:Okay, well, I have a few other things. I wanted to look at the parade of the wise men, because biblically this does not happen. I was really confused by this, because in the story there's a whole procession of these accompany the three wise men that visit La Bafana, and anytime I'd read the story of the three wise men, there's only the three people, not a procession of people, and so I wasn't clear on where this came from. So I did a little research on that. I wasn't clear on where this came from, so I did a little research on that, and what I found was the Magi are interpreted as astrologers, scholars or kings. So from the idea of the three kings, they would have traveled with an entourage to signify wealth and importance and probably for safety, because it wasn't really that safe to travel alone, and so they would have been traveling in some sort of caravan with servants and guards and animals, and it would have looked like a formal procession. And so, if you see, in a lot of these countries that have celebrate the epiphany, in medieval and renaissance art it's almost always depicted with large processions or parades, and so you'll see, and so that's, there are these parades, that's why there's parades on the Epiphany or Twelfth Night or whatever day that they're celebrating in that specific country to signify their symbolic importance.
Vanessa Rogers:I also did a little bit of research in the gifts because, like I said when I was thinking about what La Balfana brings to Mary, you know she's bringing housekeeping and treats, which sounds like a perfect gift for a new mother and the three wise men. They bring gold, frankincense and myrrh and I was like great, those sound like I mean gold, great, cool, I can use gold, you know, anytime, but I can't use it specifically at this moment. But frankincense, there's symbology behind these. So gold is because Jesus is king and his royal authority, so associated with divine or gods. Frankincense is divinity, his role as God to be worshipped, because frankincense is a resin from the Boswellia tree, traditionally burned in an incense in religious rituals, and it would have symbolized him as a priest acting as a mediator between god and humanity.
Vanessa Rogers:And then myrrh, uh, because it represents jesus as a savior, as sacrificing and suffering for his humanity, which, which I don't really know if it was already implanted in their heads that Jesus was intended to sacrifice himself. I don't know if there was that cultural understanding, I don't know why this would already be part of the symbology if he hadn't already sacrificed himself, if that was foreshadowed that he was supposed to be a sacrifice I'm not sure I don't it was. It says it foreshadowed his suffering and death. Um, and so those were the symbologies behind the, the three gifts, and evidently those would have actually been extraordinary gifts to have been given. So in modern times, if someone handed me those things, I'd be like okay, thanks, you know. But during that time they were quite important to trade and commerce and they were very widely seen on the incense road and the silk road, which were common during those time periods.
Donna Lee Fields:Okay, well, that's really important. It's really fills in a lot of holes there. Vanessa, as usual, I guess I would just like to finish with. This is just for me, you finish out, you know whatever it sort of sparks your interest. But I would just like to finish with our considering how women are portrayed in fairy tales, and I think the fauna is just this lovable character that I didn't I didn't really I wasn't attracted to at first, and now I am more so. And yet she doesn't need to be portrayed the way she is. I think she could be a beautiful old lady. You know there are beautiful older ladies who are very fit and generous, and so we could think of her in that way as well, but rebrand her.
Vanessa Rogers:Sorry, rebrand her, rebrand her, let's rebrand her.
Donna Lee Fields:Yeah, I do like that she finally got. She finally got that she had more opportunities in life and took it. She really went for the positive opportunities. So that's my takeaway from this.
Vanessa Rogers:Okay. So my last thought was I was curious because she seems so similar to Santa Claus to me, because she brings gifts and she usually comes down a chimney. She's riding a broom rather than a sleigh, but she's still very similar to Santa. So I did a little bit of research into gift bringers, specifically Epiphany gift bringers. There are tons of different gift bringers all over the world that are associated with Christmas, but the three wise men, like I was saying before, are the most popular epiphany givers. They usually give gifts to children in shoes.
Vanessa Rogers:Then there's La Bafana in Italy, and then there's Persta. Did you come across her? There's Persta. Did you come across her? She's from Austria and high Germany, in the areas with the Alpine range Interesting.
Vanessa Rogers:She is interesting because she is very similar in that she is witch-like. She's similar to La Bafana in that she's witch-like. She rewards good children and hardworking servants with silver coin during the epiphany season. But she's also known for her harsh punishments, including slitting open the bellies of misbehaving children or lazy workers. She has a dual nature, sometimes depicted as beautiful and kind, kind, and other times she's fearsome and violent, and so she has this like dark dichotomy.
Vanessa Rogers:So she um, you know labafana, she's not mean she's grumpy and she will thwack you with her broom if you insult her, uh, but she does not go around splitting children's throats or bellies. And then the last thing I found was the symbology of the chimney, because she uses the chimney and so that's why she's often covered in soot. She does it because she doesn't want to disturb sleeping families and it connects her to the ancient hearth gods and domestic traditions. Because the hearth I'm sorry, I'm saying hearth that is hearth the hearth is the center of family life, because that's where, you know, all the food is made throughout the day. And you know I'm not very familiar with hearths and their symbology.
Vanessa Rogers:Maybe you have something more familiarity with them um, no, I didn't look into it, but I will look into it for the next time um and so, but all of these gift givers do encourage children to behave and emphasize morality, and so, anyways, those are my last thoughts on La Bafana, but in general I like her. I do like the idea of rebranding her to maybe being a beautiful old woman. I can see her being this kind of ugly, misshapen woman prior to her redemption. But maybe, as she flies through the air, maybe the weight of her past misdeeds or her past grievances as they fly off, maybe she also transforms into an older beauty. What do you think about that?
Donna Lee Fields:Beautiful, gorgeous, love it.
Vanessa Rogers:All right, any lasting thoughts.
Donna Lee Fields:Nope, nope, I think we did it.
Vanessa Rogers:All right. Well, thank you everyone who's been listening to Fairytale Flip and, as always, we'd love to hear your thoughts and your opinions, and if you have a story that you want us to do a deep dive into, we would love to hear what your thoughts are about what our future fairy tale endeavors should be. And, as always, make sure you're subscribing. My channel is called Fabric of Folklore and Donna has Scaffolding Magic, where you can find her YouTube channel, which is Donna Lee Fields, I believe, but also she has a website where she offers educational resources for educators from all grades. Right, what grade levels do you have?
Donna Lee Fields:All ages, all ages.
Vanessa Rogers:Yeah, thank you so much for mentioning that, yeah, and so you can always find great resources on Donna's scaffolding magic. And so make sure you're hitting that subscribe button. Hit that notification button so that you get notifications when these podcast episodes drop. And until February, keep the fairy tales alive. Bye everyone.
