Fairy Tale Flip Ep 18 (Pt 2) : Sleeping Beauty

What hidden messages lie within the fairy tale Sleeping Beauty? In Part 2 of our deep dive, we explore the layers of meaning in this timeless story—examining the prince’s motivations, the surprising motif of cannibalism, and the moral and spiritual lessons woven throughout.

Building on Part 1’s look at the earliest origins, we turn to the influence, propaganda, and messaging behind the versions of Charles Perrault and the Brothers Grimm. We also trace modern adaptations, German mythology, and the evolving portrayal of women across centuries.

Don’t miss the conclusion to our Sleeping Beauty series—where this beloved tale reveals “happily ever after ” is much more complicated than we were led to believe.

00:00 Introduction to Fairytale Flip: Sleeping Beauty Part Two

01:03 Exploring Different Perspectives on Sleeping Beauty

01:29 The Poacher: A Dark Twist on the Classic Tale

09:03 The Motif of Cannibalism in Fairytales

14:15 Charles Perrault's Influence and Interpretation

20:49 The Grimm Brothers and Germanic Mythology

28:32 Final Thoughts and Audience Engagement

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Transcript

Sleeping Beauty Podcast Part 2

Introduction to Fairytale Flip: Sleeping Beauty Part Two

[00:00:10] Donna: This is part two of Fairytale Flip Sleeping Beauty. Vanessa and I were so immersed and so excited about this topic. It turns out there. So many more layers than we even expected, and we wanted to share with you some more of the thoughts that we had so that you can tell us what you think. So for instance, in the second part, we're gonna find out what happens if you don't wanna be the prince, if you don't wanna be an activist.

How does Don Otte fit into the discussion of the sleeping beauty? Let's find out. Let's not forget about the motif of cannibalism. What morals are there in the story? Let's go into the spiritual interpretation. What about us as a humanity? Is waking up propaganda motivated Charles prs versions and the grim brothers and their reactions to PRS versions?

And can a spinning wheel really prick a finger? Where's the needle? Let's dive right in. Mm-hmm. 

Exploring Different Perspectives on Sleeping Beauty

[00:01:03] Donna: So, um, I wrote to someone because I wanted to know, there's a whole spiritual idea of sleeping beauty that hopefully I'm gonna have a chance to refer to before we close. But I said, so what do you think about sleeping beauty?

And she said, you know, I've always wondered what she was dreaming about those a hundred years. And I was always wondering about what was the motive for the prince to get through the hedge? And, and when he looked at her, what was he really thinking? I thought that, I've never thought about that perspective.

The Poacher: A Dark Twist on the Classic Tale

[00:01:29] Donna: So when I was doing my thesis, I found this version of Sleeping Beauty by Ursula Lain. I know you're familiar with Ursula Li. 

[00:01:39] Vanessa: She wrote, um, what was, it's a very famous story. Uh, the Earth Wind 

[00:01:46] Donna: Me. Yeah. Queen, the queen of fantasy. Anyway, she also wrote a lot of short stories, and one is called the poacher, and he makes his way through the hedge.

He finds a way into the hedge, and he finds this whole sleeping palace. He finds maid sleeping, and you know, shepherds sleeping and the animals are sleeping, and he walks through the. The palace and he finds this really attractive, very wealthy looking girl lying on a, on a bed. And he thinks, oh, you know, okay, so does he go up and kiss her?

No, he doesn't. He decides he doesn't really wanna do anything. He's just too lazy, basically. So he eats all the food and he takes advantage of all the women, you know, while they're asleep. In other words, he rapes all the women and he lives the rest of his life in the palace. Not doing anything positive, and I think that's really fascinating because those a hundred years are a long time and we only get, you know, we jump from her falling asleep to the prince.

Uh, air quote, saving her what happened in between. I think it's a really, really interesting perspective on someone who doesn't wanna be the prince who doesn't wanna take that on and mm-hmm. Be the savior. 

[00:02:56] Vanessa: What do you think about that? He just wants to live the la the life of luxury. Although he doesn't have anyone serving him, he's just, and I would also imagine you would run outta food quite quickly.

I in, in the version I read to the kids, at one point they talked about how they were holding a chicken, and then as soon as everyone wakes up, they're still starting to pluck the chicken. And I was like. Would you really eat that chicken that's a hundred years old, but I guess it was enchanted and so it's probably fine.

[00:03:27] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:03:28] Vanessa: But how long could he live in that, that, that castle, uh, without any interference or having to go back out through the, the bushes or the, the thorny. It ramble. 

[00:03:42] Donna: Okay. But just think about it. Just think about it. Because a lot of us, um, we get sort of seduced by the couch and, and staring at the TV and being mesmerized by one show after another.

And with streaming now it is really seductive to just sit there and say, ah, I'll, I'll go do dishes later, or, yeah, I'll do the garden later or anything. I'll do it later. I'll do it later. And this is a case of someone who could have been the prince who could have been, um, a noble person. Find the love of his life and he said, nah, I'm just gonna eat and take advantage of women the rest of my life.

[00:04:15] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's, 

[00:04:17] Donna: it's just something, it really got into my head. So she did it well enough. So it's something to consider. What choices do we make? Um, do we wanna be the savior? Do we wanna be an activist or do we wanna sit on a couch and eat popcorn all the rest of our lives and watch streaming?

Mm-hmm. Or do we wanna 

[00:04:36] Vanessa: balance, 

[00:04:37] Donna: obviously. Yeah. 

[00:04:38] Vanessa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a really good question to ask. 

[00:04:41] Donna: Yeah. 

[00:04:41] Vanessa: I, I think is, what story was this one called? 

[00:04:45] Donna: It's called the poacher. Ursula again, and I'll send you the link so we have it in the show notes. 

[00:04:50] Vanessa: When did she write this story? Like how old are her books? Um, 

[00:04:55] Donna: she died in 2018, I believe, and she was in her eighties or early nineties.

And so this book was written. I think 2011, it was one of her more recent short stories. Yeah. Interesting. She was an activist and actually with the Earth's Sea trilogy, it became five stories. I, I'm not sure if the correct term is ology. Let's hope nobody just is pained when they hear that. But she wrote two more stories to the trilogy about how the protagonist, who's a male.

Really was not the most ideal male on the end. And she introduced some female, um, protagonists in the second two in the, in the third, and, excuse me, the fourth and fifth part. So these short stories were her way of saying, you know, let's question the people that we are sort of worshiping and honoring.

Let's question this dynamic of the male hero. So, I mean, I love her stories, love her stories. 

[00:05:55] Vanessa: Yeah. That's very, and it's a very interesting way of, of looking at it. I'm reading Don Kete right now. Wow. Yeah, it's very long. I, I actually, I am sort of, I read it to go to sleep, so it's taking me quite a long time.

It took me quite a long time to read it. Uh, but I, I've decided to start reading stories that don't, you know, they're not thrillers, things that. Are not gonna keep me awake. You know, a lot of books will keep, keep me awake, but Donte is not one. But the interesting element, um, that about Donte is he like leaves his entire life to become a knight, which is not a thing any, I mean, anymore during this time, he just decides he's a knight and he like puts on a this ridiculous outfit that is not actually very nightly, but he considers it to look like a night and he's doing this just because.

He's decided that he's a knight and really just wants like the admiration and he like. He tries to like fight random things. Like he, he comes across, I just came across a, a part where he wants someone to release a lion so that he can fight it. And someone can tell the story of Donte fighting a lion, but the lion is too lazy to come out of his cage.

And so finally the guy locked it back up and donkey Jote says, okay, but you have to tell the story that the lion was too afraid of me. And so he's really, after this, um, admiration. I guess, but most people just see him as this insane person because they recognize that he is not fully with it. Although he has the language, he's very well educated and he has a, he's able to create logical argument, but at the same time, it feels like there's a screw loose.

I, I think that some people are just doing things for the admiration, and I think, you know, in a lot of these stories, these princes are going through not with the right purpose, right? They're not going through the the rambles because they really want to find the love of their life. They're wanting it because they want to be recognized as the prince who was able to save the princess and be the.

Famous throughout the lands and have that, um, admiration from their peers and their underlings. Right? And so I, I think, um, the, the idea of sleeping beauty is that the, the prince that makes it through is doing it for the right reasons, at least the newer versions in my mind. That's how I thought of it.

[00:08:31] Donna: Okay. Yeah, I like that because obviously in, in the earlier versions, he didn't do it because he was trying to save her. He did it, he found her by accident and was attracted to her, and he raped her. So, yeah. But in the, 

[00:08:44] Vanessa: in the later ones, it's, it's, um, intentional. He's doing it intentionally because he wants to, but.

I, hopefully his heart is, is good, but, um, I'm not sure it says I I did want to mention the Charles Perot version. If you, um, unless you had another thought. 

[00:09:03] Donna: No, no. 

The Motif of Cannibalism in Fairytales

[00:09:03] Donna: Well, let's mention the pro version, but I wanted to sort of just talk about the motif of the cannibalism. Okay. If that what we had, just really quickly, because the cannibalism is interesting and as I said, one of the one reason was the dugas felt it.

That was the only way that she could, um, execute revenge or husband, which is not ideal. I mean, I completely. I really do not condone what she did. But if we look at it sort of as a metaphor, can cannibalism of a child, we can interpret it as a woman feeding back her rage into him. So, you know, the rage of what he caused in her, she's feeding it back into him and saying, this is yours.

This is your stuff. I don't want it anymore. Um, you know. 

[00:09:43] Vanessa: I, I completely agree. So I think in, in the storyline that we were just talking about with the, um, the Italian Ian Bale, it's so hard for me to remember how to say it. Mm-hmm. Um, there are two. Women motifs, the, the, uh, archetypes. Right. The Talia is the powerless woman, uh, because she is, uh, passive.

She's in a dormant state and she's in a vulnerable state, and that is in girlhood, and then the queen is cast as the villain, although she is also a victim in this story. Right, right. There's only two. Types of women in this story, and one is the powerless woman who is the one that is the ideal, right? The one who has no agency over her own life, and then the jealous rage filled tyranny.

Uh. Born of betrayal woman who is very, uh, it's understandable that she is furious with her husband for having an affair with another woman, right? And it, it's not really an affair, right? It's not an affair. It's not two sided, right? Not a, an equal participant in this. Um. And, but then the Queen, instead of being, uh, really rageful towards her husband, although he is, she is some, but she really tries to kill the, the mistress, the quote unquote mistress.

Right? Um, instead of trying to kill the actual predator, the actual perpetrator of the crimes. Yeah, that's right. I think that, that, um. Just the position juxtaposition. Just the juxtaposition, yeah. Of the two different female archetypes, um, that are also very two dimensional. Right. She's not, she turns into a villain, but she shouldn't really be the villain in the story because it's the king.

He's the villain. 

[00:11:38] Donna: That's right. And there's. Yeah. There's also, um, very interestingly, I've never heard of this myth. There's a Greek myth that the cannibalism has, has been pulled from. Have you ever heard of the myth, OMA and Proney? No. Two sisters who, because of various things that that, that one of the husbands, did they serve their nephew or one of their sons to the king as a, as a punishment for his betrayal on them?

Both. So this cannibalism really is pulled from history. Um, I don't know if that's interesting at all, but what story is that? It's called Thoma and Prone. Hmm. It's interesting because I thought I knew all the Greek myths and, and I, I don't, I'll put this in the show notes as well. 

[00:12:26] Vanessa: Okay. The ending of his story, there's a, a, a little moral ending, which I also kind of thought was interesting and it's, there's two different versions that I came across, but they basically mean the same thing.

Um, he who has luck may go to bed and bliss will reign upon his head, suggesting that the lucky or. Or the fortunate don't have to work for their fortune. They don't have to work for their destiny. They can just sleep. And things will turn out fine for them. And I think this is also, once again, this is, this is the Italian who is making political commentary on the time period that nobility get away with whatever they want.

And they're born into fortune. And their destiny is what it is because they, uh, were just born into it. It was given to them and it was not something that they had to work towards. That's my interpretation. 

[00:13:16] Donna: Really interesting. Okay. And then what I would like to just add is the spiritual interpretation.

'cause I mentioned that there, there always is one with me. Right. And the spiritual interpretation of the sleeping beauty is really, we are waking up to the fact that we may, you know, in my belief system, we are not just these human bodies that we are. Um, energy and different, uh, dimensions and the world is now waking up into that knowledge.

And so we can look at sleeping beauty as our being asleep and, and seeing an illusion of this 3D reality. And all of a sudden if we just open our eyes and if we just become, you know, soft and aware, we'll see other dimensions and other realities and wouldn't that be lovely? Mm. 

[00:13:57] Vanessa: Yes. Yes. Although also sometimes scary.

I mean, depending on what the other dimensions look like. 

[00:14:04] Donna: Well, the other dimensions totally, very, you know, they're benign. They're they're beautiful. They're, they're loving. It's where we're really supposed to be. It's just this movie theater. 

[00:14:13] Speaker 3: Um. 

[00:14:14] Donna: Okay. Um, 

Charles Perrault's Influence and Interpretation

[00:14:15] Vanessa: okay, so the next story, which is written around the, the same time, in fact, I, I actually might predate by just 10 years.

Yes. It looks like, no, no, no, I'm wrong. It, it comes after Charles Perot was born in 1628. Um, and, uh, busi Le wrote these stories, or they were published in 1634. And so Charles had to grow until, I think he wrote these at like 55 or something. So at least a half a century later. Um, we spoke about Charles Perot before in episode eight when we talked about donkey skin.

Um, I don't think we went into him a whole lot. Um, but basically he lived in France during the time of Louis the 14th. And he was, had elite education. He was trained as a lawyer. He becomes hired as, uh, part of the chief minister's, uh, administration for the academic royal inscriptions, which was intended to glorify the monarchy through classical symbolism.

And so at this time, there's a lot of like, give and take. There's a lot of controversy with the nobility and Louis the 14th because there's some sort of. Uprising, I think it's called, um, LA Fond. I, I, I'll find it at some point. There's an uprising by the nobility and they want more power and. He, he is a child during this time period.

And then when he goes, goes into adulthood, he builds, he creates Versailles, which is what he's most known for, right? 

[00:15:53] Donna: His mother, right? His mother and the advisor. Right. 

[00:15:55] Vanessa: Um, he, they create Versailles and move all of the nobility into. Versailles in 1661 in an effort to control the nobility, they want the, um, the Lords no longer to have the power that they had in the past.

And so their, their purpose is to control the nobility and part of tr Charles Perot's. Um. His mission is to write stories in order, not just stories, but write things in order to help to build this propaganda machine, um, to. Basically make the nobility stay in line. Um, although he did write the, his storytelling, all of his, uh, fairytales were written after he retired, but he was still very much aligned with the monarchy.

So a lot of his professional work is even post, um. Working for Louis the 14th still feels in line with his work prior. So I think that that's really important because when he's telling his story, it um, it's a different messaging. It's an entire different message than what Basle was. Um, so basically this, it's very much the same storyline, a a bit.

Um, okay, so there's. To a, a monarchy, a king and queen. They are trying to have a child and they cannot get pregnant, which is probably very much along the lines of what was happening in the French monarchy. They were having a hard time, uh, giving birth to, to children that survived. And it was really important for the monarchy to have surviving children.

Otherwise, you know, all things went to war and people fought for the monarchy. Um, so there was a lot of that actually happening in France. Um, they throw a party. There's a forgotten eighth ferry. Uh, and she's offended. And the princesses, uh, are blessed with talents. The princesses blessed with talents and beauty.

The elder princess, uh. The elder fairy comes in and curses her death by spindle the young, um, same type of thing right then, uh, the palace is encircled by thorns. The entire court is gone to, goes to sleep. The prince is awakened by the, the prince, but not by a kiss, just by a presence in his, in her room.

And they fall in love and several days later they get married. But instead of announcing it to. Uh, everybody. He keeps it a secret from his parents and because his mother is an ogus, um, and so she's the mother-in-law and at one point the father-in-law dies and so he thinks it's a good idea to bring his children Who to the castle, who his Ogus mother, who is?

Known to be a cannibal. Um, and then he leaves them and at some point she gets hungry and decides that she wants to eat her grandchildren. And, uh, the, um, chef deceives, the ogus hides the family. The ogus discovers the deception, orders the princess's death, and ultimately destroys herself. So instead of the it being an affair, it's the mother-in-law, which.

As we know, mother-in-laws can be difficult and, and uh, and so I think that that might be a, a poke. May I, maybe he had a mother-in-law. I didn't. I don't know. Um, but maybe he was saying something. Um, but he also wrote in the baroque literary style, but it was not satire, right? He still used this lavish ornament descriptions.

Um, but his purpose was different. It was social conditioning, moral instruction, uh, and etiquette and decorum. Uh. In coding. And so there was these elements that were not intended to be social commentary in the, the way that Bale meant them, which I thought was so interesting. Okay, so, uh, the. I will say that, um, the elder fairy in this instance represents the displaced nobility.

So a lot of the nobility felt displaced during this time period. And so, uh, it was supposed to be symbolic of all of these nobility who felt like they had their power taken from them. Um, and so. The princess, once again is intended to to be the ideal woman, and the ogre is the opposite of the ideal woman.

This is not what, this is the type of woman you don't want to be during this, this time period o Otherwise you will be burned at the stake or thrown into a pit of vipers or just ostracized by society in general. And then the last story, which is the one that we talked about at the very beginning, uh, the Grim Brothers.

The Grim Brothers and Germanic Mythology

[00:20:49] Vanessa: It. We talked about the grim brothers and other stories and they were very much academics. They were librarians, they were collecting all of these stories to try and really understand the culture of of Germany. And to try and preserve, uh, the cultural heritage of Germany. And they were very well much aware of Charles Perot and his fairytale stories and, uh, sleeping Beauty, although was a folk tale in Germany, it was not clear that it was a pure German story because a lot of people had heard of sleeping beauty from, um, the Charles Perot version, but in the end, so there was a lot of debate.

About whether or not to keep that story within the, the grim stories. But in the end, the Grand Brothers decided to keep it in because it had such similarities to a German mythology that was extremely well known throughout the lands. That was also very important to the people. And so they, they decided to keep it because it was closely aligned with the story of Bru Hill and, um.

In the, in the Germanic Norse mythology tales. So I'm just gonna tell you real quick about have you heard of the Bru Hills mythology? 

[00:22:03] Speaker 3: Yeah. 

[00:22:04] Vanessa: Um, and this one, it had similarities. It goes kind of crazy in the end, and I'm not gonna go into the crazy part, but basically she's this, the Farris of the Valkyrie, she's a warlike goddess Maiden, and she's a fighter for the Odin who is the king of Gods.

And at one point he, she angers him and he decides that she has to be punished, and her punishment is she has to marry somebody. And she says, okay, I will only marry someone who can beat me in her. Battle. And so she's put to sleep in a sort of castle and, um, so the only person who come, there's a man, and he comes through all of the, I think it's a fire that's surrounding the castle instead of th thimbles or, um, thorn, a thorny bushes.

And, uh, he, instead of kissing her, he takes off her armor and, and she falls in love with him because she, he bested all of the challenges in order to get to her. Um, but they, in, they don't end up having a happy ending. But the two main shared motifs are the enchanted sleep, uh, where she's put into a magical.

Supernatural sleep. And then he has to fight, uh, the magical barrier, the, the fire in order to get to her. And then she has an awakening. Um, and then she also has a transformation. Her powers, once she gets married, which it actually ends up not being to him once she gets married, all of her powers are diminished.

Um, and I think that that is a really interesting, that happens 

[00:23:36] Donna: in marriage often. Yeah. 

[00:23:38] Vanessa: Yeah. So a lot of her, um, her powers seep out of her and she's, she has normal strength instead of supernatural strength. And so that's really the only reason that the Grim brothers decided to keep the sleeping beauty in the grim fairytales was because they found the similarities to bru.

So, um. It's similar. Uh, 

[00:24:02] Donna: so what I, what I get outta that is that again, it's, it's, it's kind of interesting that I included this in my thesis because my thesis was about the witch being the catalyst for the growth of these characters. If you can, if you can sort of wrap your mind around of archetypal characters having evolution, evolutionary growth, which is kind of a, a paradox.

It's an oxymoron, but what I'm trying to say is that. Um, I'm surprised I picked it in the end because what's become really obvious in our discussion here is that it's the men that were really the, and they weren't catalysts for growth. It's the men who made choices that sublimated women as so much so often happens in fairytales.

But the women, the witch, the ogers, the dukes were not, not really catalysts for any evolutionary growth. So I'm just finding it, I'm finding a little difficult to wrap my round my mind around why I chose it, although I find the story absolutely. Add so many layers to the messages that we get. 

[00:25:03] Vanessa: Well, and I, what I found so interesting was like the, the meaning and the messaging was so different per the storyteller, which is the case for most storytellers.

But, um, during this time period there, it was very filled with messages, um, that are not necessarily clear as we are reading them, but they would've been clear to the, the audiences at the time. 

[00:25:27] Donna: That's right. And what's really important with, um, the generation growing up with Disney is that there are a lot of subliminal messages in there for, you could say that it's cultural.

You could say it's contextual, depending on, um, the, the century, whatever it was that men wanted women to be, sublimed, sublimated or, or sublimated, excuse me. Um, and that really did happen. You know, you need a man to save you, you need a man to, uh, make you feel whole. Um, you need, you don't need to protect yourself.

Anything they do to you physically or a decision your father makes or your mother makes is absolutely fine. These are the messages that we get and part of our work. I think Vanessa, I think you'll agree, is to turn these stories on their backs and to look at them really closely and say, no, I don't think so.

I don't think necessarily we need to believe all this. 

[00:26:19] Vanessa: Yeah. One other element that I found that I, I'm not gonna go into in depth, but the spinning wheel prick, I was really curious how you prick your, your finger on a spinning wheel. Um, because the, the spindle is not pointy, there's no way you can actually prick yourself to actually get blood.

There's no needle. And, and I, I kind of went into like this rabbit hole to try and find how sleeping beauty would have. Pricked herself, but there's, there's nothing to have been pricked. The, the closest thing that you would've had on there, uh, was called the Great Wheel, would've been your best choice, but it would've still required a lot of motivation, momentum, and clumsiness to draw any blood.

So, so, um, if you, if you look at any actual spinning wheel, spinning wheel, there's, there's nothing sharp enough to prick you on a spindle. 

[00:27:16] Donna: Okay. But I think, I think, and I can't say that I'm absolutely positive about this, it's not the spinning wheel itself, but it's the needle behind that feeds the flax or the thread onto the spinning wheel.

[00:27:27] Speaker 3: Well, the, the articles that I was reading said that there was not a needle. 

[00:27:33] Donna: Okay. 'cause I'm looking at images right now and there's a needle there. Um, I, you know, that's a really interesting facet of this whole story that I wish I had thought of myself, but I'm looking at images of spinning wheels and behind the spinning wheel where it may not be a needle that we'd think of for sewing, but it's where you put the thread to feed it onto the spinning wheel.

It's so sharp. Does that make sense? 

[00:27:58] Vanessa: Yeah, I, I mean the people who I was, would, I was listening to and reading from didn't think, seem to think that there was anything on the entirety of the spinning wheel that would've done it even historically. 

[00:28:12] Donna: Interesting. Well, that's something I'd love. I'm not, I'm not familiar 

[00:28:15] Vanessa: with spinning wheels 'cause I've never used one myself.

So I was just basing that off of people who had some knowledge of, of spinning wheels. 

[00:28:24] Donna: Okay. Well this is my very, um, you know, last minute. Ditch and looking at them on images. So let's hear what I think our listeners think. 

Final Thoughts and Audience Engagement

[00:28:32] Donna: Vanessa, I'm so impressed. We, um, we, I actually gone through all of the different. Um, items that we wanted to talk about in this story, and we're gonna divide this into two parts so that it's not so overwhelming for our listeners.

But is there, I, I don't have any last minute thoughts because I think I've given them, is there any last minute, are there any last minute thoughts that you'd like to share? 

[00:28:54] Vanessa: Uh, no. It's just to remind our listeners to hit subscribe button and hit like if you're watching on YouTube because it helps the algorithm to help other people to find us.

Um, so don't forget to subscribe. That's so helpful for small podcasts like ourselves, and we are so thankful for you, our audience that continue to follow us and listen and understand all about the fairytales that we've, we've grown up with and, you know, their different symbology and how the symbology changes through the modern ages.

And I'd like to hear from our audience about what their initial interpretation of sleeping beauty was for them. Did they take the misogynist message or did they have a different reaction to it? Because I don't think I took those reactions. I don't think I had those reactions as a child. I don't know, maybe I did, but, uh, and just wasn't aware of it.

But, um. That's, that's not how I interpreted it as an adult either. Later on, I guess, um, just upon first glance, uh, 'cause I, I feel like adults can have their nuanced opinions through their own lenses and see their own messages, uh, by. I don't know, rewriting it in their own mind, I guess, if that makes any sense.

[00:30:14] Donna: It makes a lot of sense. I think that it is very important that you said as an adult, because when we're children, we just sort of sponge, we just, you know, suck everything else in. That's, that's given to us at least until the age of seven, when we become a little more discerning. And so I think what we're doing is trying to unravel what we may have not, what may have taken on, and as you said, may not be aware of even as an adult, even as an adult.

[00:30:36] Vanessa: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It takes critical thinking in order to unravel even things that we watch today. And, you know, even thinking about sleeping beauty, this is the first time I've ever indepthly thought about it to this extent, and I, you know, it, it, it changes how you perceive things. Either positively or negatively.

I still have a positive interpretation of it, but that's just my personality. 

[00:31:00] Donna: Yeah. As long as people think critically, thinking critically is, to me, is the key. It's the key of it. You know? Agree or disagree. Great. But think about it. 

[00:31:08] Vanessa: Yes. Yeah. So thanks so much for to our fairytale flip audience and listeners, and we can't wait until next month when we talk about, how did you pronounce it?

[00:31:20] Donna: Yeah, it's called the YAMA yahoo.

[00:31:26] Vanessa: Yes, that is it. Uh, so, um, I, I believe that's one we were discussing potentially doing next month. So stay tuned. 

[00:31:36] Donna: Thanks everyone. 

[00:31:38] Vanessa: Have a great 

[00:31:39] Speaker 3: summer. Yeah.