Musicians Five For Fighting & Edwin McCain | The Latest With Maya

A conversation with John Ondrasik and Edwin McCain.❤️ 


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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's a little bit John Androzic, also known as Five for Fighting, and Edwin McCain are singer-songwriters who are currently touring together. John, it's so great to see you and be speaking with you again. And I'm so excited to meet you, Edwin. So thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Um, so who do you consider to be the gold standard when it comes to songwriting and storytelling?

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Uh well, my hero is a guy named David Wilcox. He's a singer, songwriter out of uh Western North Carolina, Asheville. And I I saw him play um when I was 17. And he just he really sort of opened my eyes to the potential uh that songwriting has. And and he, you know, I I saw him play this little this little place called McDibbs, and he and he was sort of walking people through what he had discovered about his own life. And it was really the sort of the distillation of of all these complex human situations down to three and a half minutes, so that everybody in the room could find this common ground. And I remember thinking, what a what a uh a nice life to live, what a what a a beneficial, uh, kind way to live. And I remember uh thinking at the time that that would be uh boy, it would be amazing if I could play in a room full of a hundred people uh and share what I had discovered about life and poetry, and uh, and so I've always looked up to him. He was kind of the the gold standard for me.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Oh, I love that. Yeah. Um so how do you um keep yourself motivated to create even on days when you aren't fully feeling it?

SPEAKER_01 2:24

I think you know, not all of us are Paul McCartney or Elton John, who can sit down and write a hundred songs that we know. And uh, you know, I think so much of success, frankly, has little to do with talent. Um, it has to do with other things, work ethic, relationships. You know, I've written thousands of songs, and most people know too, right? So it's like I think a lot of it is throwing darts. And, you know, if you're not at the piano writing, um you know, especially early in my career, I I I would, you know, write hundreds of songs a year. I wouldn't finish them all, but um, for me, so much of it was continuing to do it, continuing to do it, work ethic. And as as you as you do that, as it's like any craft, you you get better. And um, but you know, this at this stage in my life, it's a little different where I don't write a song every day. Frankly, I I I kind of just write songs when I moved to say something or feel something or be inspired by something or be angry about something. So in a weird way, I'm kind of back to where I was when I was like 15 years old and just I met a girl and I liked her and I wanted to write a song. So it's kind of a nice place to be. But um again, I think, you know, for me particularly, a lot of it was just kind of work ethic and and um and kind of responsibility to yourself to to make sure you're putting every effort into your not just your job, but your dream.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

I kind of I kind of ignore it until until I feel compelled. And I write things down and and a lot of times if there's an idea that sticks around in my ADHD brain, and if it is there, if it stays there for months at a time, then it's it it's something worth pursuing because most of the time it just floats away into the static. But then if there's if there's something that stays with me, uh then I'll I'll I'll dig deeper on it. Um, but I don't have that discipline like what Hemingway went and stood at a podium every day from you know 11 until five or something. I don't have that. I don't have that in me.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Wow. Yeah. Um so is there um someone who without fail always makes you laugh?

SPEAKER_02 4:55

We've had a pretty good time out here. Is it uh you know, it's been it's been a couple of laughs out here. Uh we we have uh our bands, uh everybody's been on the road, I mean, cumulatively for hundreds of years. So literally so what I think what happens is after a after a few decades of doing this, it's really hard to take anything very seriously. And then and then everything's funny, right? Like, I mean, even I don't you know, I I I'm sure that there's some psychologists that would take this apart as some kind of some kind of deflection mechanism. But but in any event, it is funny, and it there's a lot of really funny stuff that happens out here. So um as long as you take that that tact of trying to find the humor in it, I think it makes it go by a lot quicker.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Oh, I love that. Yeah, I feel like you have to just find humor in um in everything if you can. I my family and I always joke when it's like everything, everything that can go wrong does go wrong. We're just like, well, what what can go wrong next? Let's see what happens next. So um so what is um the best advice you have ever gotten?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Oh wow. Uh I was when I was 19, I was living in Hilton Ed and I was playing like 10 shows a week, and they were all four hour-long shows. And um I would finish my last show on Saturday nights at like midnight or one, and then ride my bike down to the uh there was uh there was these guard houses for this really wealthy neighborhood, and there was a full-blooded Pequot Indian that worked as a security guard. And I I just love this guy. He was a he was old then, he was probably late 70s, early 80s, and he had lived uh a completely different life. Um, he had uh uh fought in World War II and Korea and uh had lost two sons and he he had had this extraordinary life. Like he had been rec relocated out to um the reservation in Arizona and told stories about his parents like turning he and his brothers loose in the canyons for the entire summer, and then they would come and gather them up. I mean, you know, stuff that you would you know, you just couldn't unfathom the life that this guy had left. And I was concerned because I had dropped out of college and was playing gigs, and I I just didn't, you know, my father had written me this sort of condemning letters, you know, saying we love you, but we don't agree with what you've decided to do. And I was asking this old man, like, Am I doing the right thing? And he looked right at me and he said, What you need to do is go be young, go be young and go experience everything that that means. And it was the best piece of advice I ever got because I stopped in that moment doubting this decision to play. You know, I just I just left it there. It was like this this old man's gotta know what he's talking about, right? So um go be young. That was it. That's the best advice I've ever gotten.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

I don't know if mine's quite as powerful as that, but and it wasn't somebody who who necessarily gave me words, but when I was out of college, um for some reason I ended up joining this band with all the ex-members of Pat Benatar, and a guy's name was Scott Sheets, was one of them. And um, every Christmas, Scott Sheets would have this huge Christmas party, and Pat Benatar would come to the party with her husband, and all the rock stars were there, and I was this kind of little kid, and I was kind of shy. And and um, and this was when Pat Benatar was, you know, probably the biggest female star in the world. She was, you know, this is the 80s, and you know, love is a battlefield, hit me with your best shot, like top of the world. And it was toward the ends of the party, and again, I'm kind of shy, and I'm I kind of go sometimes I go into the kitchen and and hide. And so I went into the kitchen and I see this little woman doing dishes, and I kind of say hi, I kind of don't look at her, and she's like, hi, what's going on, and whatever. And then I turn and go, that's Pat Benatar. So she was in the kitchen doing the dishes for the party, and we had probably a 20-minute conversation just about life and anything. She asked me what I was doing, and you know, and all that stuff. And she was so sweet. She talked about her kids, you know, she talked about her family. And that stuck with me because, you know, in this in this business, if you have success, you know, your ego can, you know, get a bit inflated. And I always remember, you know, if I ever start feeling, you know, on too good for my britches, I like, you know, remember Pat Benatar doing dishes. You know, if she can do dishes, you can be humble about your success. So I think it wasn't words of advice, but it was just um just her example that that stuck with me, geez, 30 years later.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Oh wow, I love that. I think, yeah, I think both of those are um yeah, great advice. Um what uh small things bring you joy on a daily basis?

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Oh gosh. Um uh I mean I I really like playing it sound check. Like I actually really enjoy just the playing of it. And I always like think of it as um we you know you get to have this moment and and reset and remind myself that I'm I'm the 15-year-old I once was that because he would have killed, he would have crawled through a river of fire to be living the life that we're living now. And so to get to play with people that I that I love and and uh still be able to do it, uh that's the little thing every day that makes me happy. That and driving the bus. Yeah, yeah, I do like doing that.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

He edwin is, as I say in my shows, the most interesting man in the world because he he he drives his own tour bus. For me, for me, talking for a little touring thing, and this um, and it is a little thing because of my voice. Um, I don't necessarily after the shows hang out with all the guys at the front of the bus because it's a lot of fun and you talk, tell a lot of jokes, and you talk a lot. And we have, I don't know, we've done 20 some shows and 20 some days, so so I kind of land my bunker in the back, but I love hearing the laughter, you know. I hear everybody laugh, particularly our drummer Randy, you know, he just he they're so funny, and and you hear them laughing and you know, and goofing around, and that uh that laughter just makes me happy, you know. It just makes me happy and brings me joy.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Oh, I love that. Yeah. Um, yeah, laughter um brings me a ton of joy. Um to um so what is um the biggest obstacle, either personally or professionally, that you've overcome?

SPEAKER_01 12:47

She has deep questions.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Yeah, no, that's that's an easy one for me. Um in 2007, I checked myself into rehab for alcoholism, and uh that was the at the time was the hardest thing, but absolutely the best decision I ever made. Um turned it all around. Uh made, you know, uh I would say to all the younger musicians out there, don't don't let alcohol tell you you're better than you are, you know. Um and and mercifully, I I you know, I've been sober for almost 19 years now.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

So yeah, that's that's amazing. It's um yeah we have a lot of friends, you know, who have not been able to make that wise decision. And most of the times it's been a very sad ending. Um mine's quite not um as I think personal as that. Um, but I think it it goes to all artists is you know, you have to have a certain spine for rejection. And um, especially, you know, early in my career, you know, was the age of Lilithair and boy bands and grunge music, and and I was writing these little piano songs. And so, you know, I I like to say I'm a 15-year overnight success because um takes 10 years for overnight success. And um, and because yeah, because you know, that there's people can always find a reason to say no. And uh you're a great singer, but your songs are not that good, or you're a great songwriter, but you're not so I think to just have the the will and the the armor to um kind of push through the rejection, um, and it's just you know, it never totally goes away, you know, you're always you're sensitive, but I think that's also a big um key to to the arts and uh having a career in the arts. And um so that would kind of be the obstacle that I overcame. And I again I I go back, I think that's probably much more important than talent, um, is another thing, is will and work ethic and and um relationships too, you know, building relationships with people. Um even if you're a little annoying.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Like so I I'd sent I got rejection letters from everybody, and I just kept sending them. And and after a while, they forget that they sent you rejection letters and they go, Why do I recognize that name? And then if they figure out that you're that persistent, they'll say, Well, wait a second. I mean, he hustled hard enough to get in my face for the 80th time. Maybe this is something worth trying. Um, and that kind of persistence, you're he's 100, you're 100% uh hustle, hustle will outdo uh talent 10 times out of 10 in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah, I I'm always persistent when there is someone like I set my mind to that I want to interview, I don't stop till I get a response.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I know.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah, I was gonna say, as you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

That's why we love you.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Thank you. Um so um is there a song of yours that is your favorite?

SPEAKER_02 16:21

I hope I haven't written it yet. I hope it's out there in the future somewhere. Um, but it usually it it nightly I try to figure out what the audience where they want to go, and you know uh just it's it's always the one that they respond to the best. And I and lately it's been this one that I wrote about the sax player because you know he and I have a 35-year relationship, and so I like to tease him on stage, and the audience seems to like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

So yeah, mine uh mine changes, you know. I think it's you know, it changes today. It's my song I just love you that I wrote with my daughter when she was four years old because it's her birthday today. So today it's I Just Love You. Tomorrow it may be something else.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Oh, I love that. Well, happy birthday to your daughter.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Thank you very much. Vin's birthday was yesterday. Oh, yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Wow, yeah. Um so if you could give someone in your life a star on the walk of fame, who would it be?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Well, for me, that'd be two, because it'd be my parents who kind of, you know, my mom's a musician, so she knew how long the odds are, and and so you know, they uh were very supportive of me, you know, to a degree, you know. I think they they wanted me to have a backup plan, which I did. But, you know, my parents uh I think imposed on me, you know, certain values that that you need in this business to do it for a long time. And um, so it would be uh it would be my mom and dad with uh the joint star on the Hall of Walk of Hall Hall of Fame.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Yeah, I'd have to agree. My dad, um my dad was a pediatrician, he's turning 92 on the hook, but he was a pediatrician, and and as a kid, he used to leave and go to Haiti and do uh pop-up clinics basically sitting under a tree and and help um uh give medical care to people in Haiti. And and he did it uh regularly during the 80s when it was you know it was not a safe thing to to do. And he went with the Episcopal Church and and um that that impressed that left a big um impression on me as a child that that kind of selflessness um and so I think he has kind of instilled that um in me uh that sort of runs uh to this day, but even though he didn't want me to play music, he made me promise I wasn't gonna play music for a living when I left for left at home, but uh but uh but he set such a good example and um so yeah, I'd say my dad for sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Oh, I love that. Yeah. Um, so if you could choose anyone to narrate your life story, who would you choose and why?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Oh my goodness. That is a question I've never been asked. Uh I got it. William Shatner. But he has to do it as Captain Kirk, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Nicolas Cage, but he'd have to do it just like raising Arizona.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Oh, I like those. Those are good ones. Yeah, yeah. I think I think I I'd want um Reese Witherspoon, Reese Witherspoon to narrate my life.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

She would do a great job, no doubt.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so do you have any irrational fears?

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Irrational. What's define irrational? Yeah. You know, I think a lot of fears that used to be irrational are irrational now. Um, I don't, you know, I don't really have any kind of phobias like heights or, you know, um snakes or anything like that. Maybe I'm just silly and foolish and stupid, but I I don't have any uh anything that comes to mind. Do you ledges?

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Ledges, ledges like heights and ledges, like, but I'm a pilot. I have a pilot's license. I can fly airplanes, that's no problem at all. But like just like the a ledge, nothing. I got nothing for that. I think I have that weird gene that makes me want to just keep going. No, it's a weird stay away from that. There's some I I went down the wormhole. There's actually some kind of designation for that instinct that people have, and apparently I have it. So yeah, I say I don't go anywhere near ledges, even if there's railings. I'd like like if we stay at those big atrium hotels that are you know that have like their big open atrium. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I stay close to the wall, walk into the room. Those do make me a little nervous. Yeah, yeah. It's a weird thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah. Oh yeah. I I always joke that my brain's just one big irrational fear so I can understand other people's irrational fears. Yeah. Um, so I am uh pop culture obsessed, uh, as John knows, um, and I go in stages of shows that I cannot. Stop watching and songs that I cannot stop listening to. What show or song are you currently obsessed with?

SPEAKER_01 22:12

There's this show called Tehran, um uh that uh is about Iran, actually. It's about a spy in Iran, which uh me and my wife are loving right now. Um, as far as music, and I'm gonna go completely selfish here. Uh my daughter has a band called Lace and Lee. So um we have her on our playlist. So I listen to her pre-show every night. So and I'm in the studio with her too. So I've been listening to a lot of Olivia's songs. So those are my uh my music and my uh my streamer right now.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

So uh I made friends, uh I have like a lot of parasocial relationships with people that I've met online um through social media, and there's this band called Dury Music out of Minneapolis that's uh brother-sister dirt duo. And um uh they had this song with their first song that kind of hit real big is called Who's Laughing Now? But it starts out, you know, my mom has always said I would regret it if I ever got a tattoo. And that song was buried into my skull for for years, and then I finally got to meet them, and they're just the nicest people, and and so I'm a I'm obsessed with that band. So I want to, I'm actually I offered to take them on tour and drive the bus for them in my bus because they they they travel in vans, so I'm gonna figure out a way to like drive them for a run as like a pay it forward kind of thing and get to hang out with them. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Oh yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I I currently have um uh Catherine Gallagher's newest EP on repeat. Um, that's what I've been listening to a lot lately.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

So what show are you watching?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Uh oh the I'm watching uh the final season of The Bear. Okay. And then I'm re-watching uh Rosoli and Isles. Um and then I just found um the show Ned and Stacy that I started um watching, uh, which is an older show, but uh I'm loving all those. Yeah. Yeah. Um so uh what song, whenever you hear it, brings you back to a specific memory, and what is that memory?

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Me, it's well, we have a lot, right? You know, there's a lot of them, but whenever I hear every breath you take by the police, uh, you know, I'm back at Zuma 6, you know, the beach in California, my summer's out there, and you know, young kid, you know, in the sun playing volleyball, doing the beach stuff. And every, you know, that's the beautiful thing about music. It just it's like a memory, you know, a time machine. And you just hear the song and you're right back there. So that's the first one that came to mind for me.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Yeah, Alex Chilton, uh, the replacements song, Alex Chilton. It's either that or or uh uh driving and crying has a song but called Scarred but Smarter. And uh I I was jamming out of that song so hard I crashed my car. So every time I hear it, I'm right back, I'm right back to that moment. Hope you don't hear it very much. No, no, it was so awesome. That's such a great song.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

I love that. Yeah, uh yeah, there's so many songs. Um I I just love that always bring me back, like right back to a certain place. Um yeah, um so I just uh have one final question for you both. Um so today, what are you most grateful for?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Uh I'm most grateful for still being able to be out here to do this 35 years of playing live shows. Um it's not lost on me that people get up and come come to these venues and let us play for them. And uh you know, I've seen a lot of changes in the music industry, and the fact that we get to still do this is a is really a blessing. So I'm really grateful for that.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

I I could certainly echo Edwin's sentiments and and I do. Uh we've talked about this many times, but instead of just you know reiterating what he said, um, because we're coming up on uh America's 250th birthday, I'd have to say I'm grateful to live in this country and have the freedom of speech to be a songwriter and and have the ability to disagree and and um and settle things peacefully and and live in a wonderful country. And so um that's uh especially as we're coming up on this significant, you know, amazing milestone. Um I look forward to the next 250 years to see what America does.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Oh, I love that. Yeah. Um, well, thank you both so much for joining me. Uh John, I always have the best time talking with you. And Edwin, it was so great to meet you, and yeah, I've just had the best time talking with you both. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yeah. Um, and that's a wrap on today's edition of the latest with Maya.