Man (Un)Caved
Welcome to Man (Un)caved podcast where we explore the complex landscape of masculinity in men. Hosted by facilitator /life coach Shane Coyle, this podcast delves deep into the multifaceted nature of what it means to be a man in today's world.
Join us as we embark on a thought-provoking journey, navigating through topics such as societal expectations, emotional intelligence, mental health, relationships, and personal growth. Each episode features insightful discussions, personal anecdotes, and expert interviews, providing listeners with valuable insights and tools to navigate their own journey towards authentic manhood.
Whether you're a man seeking to understand and redefine your masculinity, or someone interested in gaining a deeper understanding of the male experience, this podcast offers a safe and inclusive space for meaningful conversations.
Join the conversation as we challenge stereotypes, celebrate diversity, and embrace the richness of masculinity in all its forms. Tune in to Man (Un)caved and discover a new perspective on what it truly means to be a man.
"Not until we are willing to come out of hiding, will we truly experience our greatest potential"
Need support? Our free recovery services and weekly support groups are here to help both individuals and families affected by addiction and mental health challenges. You don’t have to do this alone. Schedule a free, confidential call today and start the healing process for everyone involved.
www.manuncaved.com
Man (Un)Caved
(Un)wavering: Fatherhood, Personal Growth, and Harmony with Mike Gazzo
How can we truly channel our emotions to avoid being overwhelmed, especially during the transformative journey of fatherhood? Join me, Shane Coyle, as I sit down with the remarkable Mike Gazzo, a musician and holistic practitioner. Mike's incredible journey from platinum music production to mastering NLP, hypnosis, and breathwork is nothing short of inspiring. We reminisce about our life-changing first meeting at a meditation and breathwork workshop and discuss the tranquility Mike found after moving to Auburn, which brought newfound balance and peace to his life.
Mike and I dive into this question, sharing our experiences with mushrooms, ayahuasca, and other spiritual practices like Akashic records and Theta Healing. We emphasize the importance of aligning with one's true self. This chapter in his life is all about finding harmony between ethereal experiences and practical daily routines, illustrating an ongoing journey of self-discovery and integration.
Discover how fatherhood fundamentally reshapes one's life and priorities. I open up about my pre-fatherhood anxieties and the continuous challenge of setting a positive example for my son. We delve into the powerful lessons children teach us about presence and emotional fluidity. Balancing personal growth with nurturing a family environment, we highlight the importance of recalibrating relationships and fostering self-sufficiency. Mike and I explore how early parenthood brings both joys and challenges, sharing insights on maintaining strong couple dynamics and the invaluable contribution of external support like a nanny. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of the transformative power of parenthood and the ever-evolving journey to authentic living and explore Mikes "fathers-to- be" course Parental Instinct.
Mike Gazzo: https://www.instagram.com/gazzomusic/
Where are you channeling it? Because if you're not channeling it toward the type of father you want to be, then you're going to be pulled into every emotional storm. You're going to be pulled into every fear. You're going to feel like a little bit out of control at times.
Speaker 2:All right, everybody. Hey, welcome to man Uncaved Again. My name is Shane Coyle, welcome. I am really excited about today and I'll tell you why. First of all. First, I'm going to be introducing one of my mentors, the one that I really look to for holding space, just being from man to man. So I'm really honored that he's here with you and that everybody gets a chance to meet him and hear him. But let's just talk a little about you. So I'm really honored that he's here with you and that everybody can get the chance to meet him and hear him. But let's just talk a little about you. So, first of all, let me just put this together for everybody Musician, amazing musician. If you haven't heard him play, he's amazing. So any instrument brings him, he'll play. Platinum music producer, a master in NLP, and the M M E R Is that. Is that the specialty within that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so then I are in hypnosis.
Speaker 2:Yep, hypnosis, uh, certified breath work, uh, cold plunge, uh, enthusiast, I don't know how to say that, but um, so I'm really honored and and I think really you know how we came together was just a beautiful thing. This is maybe over, just over a year ago actually, maybe an over a year ago I attended one of your and your wife's workshop where we kind of dipped into a lot of meditation, we did some breath work, we did a cold plunge, we did a sauna. It was just a raiment of all these things. It was like a four or five hour event that we just kind of pow, wowed and cried and held each other in. So and it was just beautiful and obviously being in the work myself and really just kind of gravitating towards you and how you held that space, you and your wife, and how you held that space. So again, really honor. And I forgot to add this, if all of that didn't tickle your fancy, I think you're the only one that I know that has climbed Kilimanjaro.
Speaker 1:So I just want to put that that's definitely another thing, that's probably a full-blown talk show in itself.
Speaker 2:Just a three-day journey of that. So anyway, I just wanted to throw that if that didn't get you excited enough. So anyway, thanks Mike for taking some time out of your day. I know that you guys recently moved, so how is that going? Kind of settling in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's going really well. I feel like we moved a little bit over a month and a half ago and we moved up to Auburn. Definitely a lot more land, a lot more stillness, a lot more. I mean, our land is super quiet, the whole neighborhood is so beautiful change of pace. We love the house, we love the area and we've just been grounding into the space, getting things set up. And it's a pleasure to be here, man. I know we've been trying to get on here for a bit and it's good that we're grounded here after the move. And it's a pleasure to be here, man. I know we've been trying to get on here for a bit and it's good that we're grounded here after the move and it's just so exciting to be here, man. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know it's been a lot. I mean you're busy, I'm busy, you're moving and we'll kind of get into a lot of this stuff that's also been keeping you busy. So let's get to learn a little bit about you. Obviously, what a beautiful resume. I mean just the dips and dabs of all the stuff that you really do. But also I want to know a little bit more about you and really, what was the catalyst and I'm sure there was many catalysts that really got you into doing the healing work, the transformation work, whatever you want to call it? I want you to hear more about your journey so people can understand how you got here.
Speaker 1:Call it I wanted you to hear more about your journey so people can understand how you got here. Sure, yeah, so, as you mentioned, I've been in the music industry for a long time over a decade professionally and well over a decade unprofessionally. You know, as a kid I was super, super in tune with pretty much everything to do with music. I mean, I was an orchestra, jazz band band. I had four other bands a ska band, a metal band, acoustic band and it took over my life in a beautiful way. And as I continued to pursue it, I went to college, ended up getting Well, going to college, originally for a double major in psychology and marketing. My idea was like, if I'm gonna go to college, I'm just gonna figure out how to sell things and understand how to mind, how the mind works, and I was always interested in that, uh, but needless to say, most of my collegiate time collegiate times were social capital. I was a huge partier, like top, top tier partier, and word as a as a badge of honor and a point of pride in my life. And as my music career continued to grow and grow and grow, it got to a place where I eventually moved out to LA in 2015 and came out here and was just like go, go, go. I was touring at the time as a DJ and getting to play these amazing stages and then moving over to producer and songwriter, which is really what I wanted to do is develop artists and work behind the scenes.
Speaker 1:And when I was an artist, I was exhausted, I'll be honest. I was living a certain lifestyle and I actually thought that moving to the behind the scenes would slow my life down and all that it provided was more time to do all the things that I maybe didn't want to do, right, but but felt pressured, you know, uh, and I was pressuring myself. You know, there's like a social capital aspect of you know, the industry itself, and so I kept doing it, and it was years. I mean, I started drinking and dabbling with things when I was like 11. So it was kind of a part of my life and a part of like what I had experienced as culture. And so many, many times, in the path of being on, specifically, the music path, I recognized that, no matter what I achieved, I was feeling empty. I was feeling beside myself. I felt like I always had to be somebody else around other people and truly I just didn't even know who I was. I couldn't even pin it together, put it together on who I really was grounded in.
Speaker 1:And so in 2018, it was kind of a combination of a breakup that was happening. At the time, I was doing really well in my career. I mean, I was at the tippy top of I was making so much money. I was working with incredible A-list artists all around the world doing crazy studio sessions. I had started working with Steve Aoki around 2017, 2018. So I was flying to Vegas all the time going to shows. A lot of stuff was happening.
Speaker 1:Even in that summer post this breakup, I ended up in Mykonos with Lindsay Lohan. It was crazy. I was living such a crazy life, friend of a friend type situation but still, every time I'd have the little hit, I'd get the excitement and then it would go away and I'd feel alone. And so in that period of time, a gentleman by the name of Marco Hanzel I don't really know how to pronounce his last name, but this amazing human being, marco, stumbles into my front door. He was going to be subletting a room a friend of another friend and the gentleman was just. He was vibrant, he was completely glowing, he was so happy, so clearly in tune with himself. He was so happy, so clearly in tune with himself.
Speaker 1:And my first instinct is like what are you on? What drug are you on? What are you taking? You know, are you drunk? Are you like, where are you coming from? Coming from a crazy party? And he basically described this silent meditation retreat that he had just gotten back from in Thailand Seven days in silence, meditating, 10 hours a day, sometimes more. And I was like, oh, I want to do that and it just kind of happened. You know, I wasn't necessarily fully seeking, but I was definitely calling in some answers in my life, right right and I just so happened to subsequently start some headspace.
Speaker 1:You know, three minutes a day, the clouds in the sky kind of meditation, and I propelled myself. A month later I went to Hong Kong alone and did my first 10 day silent meditation retreat. That was like a really big catalyst moment, but it wasn't the full catalyst that like changed everything in my life, Because what tends to happen, as you know, is it's really easy to fall back into old lifestyle patterns and old behaviors. So I would like try to hold the vibration of what I was feeling for as long as I could, and in the beginning it was about six months. Six months later I was like, okay, cool, I guess I need to go back because I'm feeling whatever I was feeling before and don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1:that meditation retreat moved a lot for me. So I went back, and I went back again and again and all of a sudden I was on my fourth retreat, still feeling the same way that I was feeling in my life, not during the retreat, but in my life.
Speaker 1:Right, I really didn't have the courage at that time to change the things that I needed to, and so that kind of went on and I definitely had some growth points and fall back into the old lifestyle stuff. And then around, I would say, really, when it really kind of all came together was when the world slowed down in 2020 and I actually had spaciousness and an excuse to not go out. I mean, it wasn't even an excuse. No one was going out, right?
Speaker 2:No one was going out. Yeah, no one could go out. So I was already on.
Speaker 1:yeah, no one could go out so I was already on a fitness journey. I was already boxing for like two, three hours a day. I was hiking, I was getting involved with a lot more, you know, I would say healthy habits, and that whole period of time I started to open up a more conscious and intentional relationship with mushrooms, took mushrooms for nine months straight. Wow, on high dose or like a micro dose.
Speaker 2:Where were you?
Speaker 1:It was everywhere, man it was I always laugh with. I laugh with people now that I know what I know around around micro dosing is because, like you know, at the time I thought I was on a, you know I was micro dosing but, I, mean I would take anywhere from 0.25 up to three and a half random days.
Speaker 1:I mean it could be one day. I just decide to take a little more, maybe a little less. And my intention around that time was presence. It was simply presence. Like, can I be with what's here? And one of those nights, middle of the night, woke up and got this kind of calling and this urge to start to research ayahuasca centers ended up going down to Peru, peek in the jungle, in Iquitos. It was as if, like two years of searching had come to fruition and I started to really see my life and see the choices I was making and see how they were not aligned with how I wanted to feel. I could see the relationships I was maintaining that were I had outgrown. Truthfully, I had just outgrown Again, not in any superiority way. Just like we have different interests, there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:So, that really propelled me. I mean, man, I went down a rabbit hole. I sat with a tremendous amount of different traditions and medicines.
Speaker 1:I opened up a connection to Akashic records and to Theta Healing meditation practices, which is a limiting belief guided meditation. I started to work with breathwork on a daily basis, anywhere from 30 minutes to two hours, and it was just, I was in. I took integration like a full-time job. I had all the spaciousness right and it gave me some some context on what was so dissonant about how I was working in the music industry. It wasn't music that was the problem, it was how I was working. It was how I was working with my creativity and you know, so that you know that was like 2020, 2021.
Speaker 1:And then moving through, I mean it's just been skill acquisition after skill acquisition, like retreat after retreat, and there was definitely like a really deep two year pocket where I was just going hard. I mean, I was just going so hard with everything I would take the most amount of everything I would. You know I was looking for new modalities. I had multiple mentors, spiritual mentors and all different types of mentors, and at one point it became really abundantly clear that I was being kind of invited to a path of service and I had already kind of been doing that.
Speaker 1:I mean, in the music industry, I've always was the guy who linked people together with not needing anything. I didn't need anything out of it. On top of like, I was starting to think, like what do I really love about the music sessions I have? And beyond the creativity, it's the connection.
Speaker 1:It's sitting and talking about life and helping people and also listening and learning about how I can grow and growing through the session itself. You know, fast forward. It brought me down this whole path of getting into the breathwork facilitation space. My wife and I started hosting our own breathwork meditation groups and workshops and that's where we met. And the original version of those workshops were just Eileen and I loved breathwork, we had a coach and we were like, let's do a like a family ceremony space.
Speaker 1:It was a beautiful experience actually with you guys together. Yeah, thank you, thank you, and that that was like an iteration of a, of just the, just the intention to want to share breathwork, that's all. And even that, even in the beginning, we weren't even holding space, we were like we weren't yet fully trained. So we had somebody that was fully trained our teacher core at the time, uh, helping us out. And then we went to training my wife and I. We went to go sit with more medicines, we sat with the Weechul Indians, we sat with the Shipibo Kenebo, we sat with so many different amazing traditions as well as started to take note on what modalities and what frameworks really we resonated with.
Speaker 1:Really, it was a combination of all of that alchemy of self-discovery and personal growth in my own life that propelled me into a position to hold space for people in a more formal way. That propelled me into a position to hold space for people in a more formal way. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm always in a state of learning, I'm always in a skill acquisition, always digging deeper, always. I think now I feel a lot more grounded in how my approach is. I take a lot more time to integrate things. I am much more. I got lost in a little bit of the ethereal stuff for a while and I think it's pretty normal for people that get into a spiritual path to get a little bit lost in like the woo-woo heady stuff yeah it can be yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's nothing wrong inherently with that.
Speaker 1:But what I did notice was like the one question that kept popping up for me was how does this apply to my life?
Speaker 1:No matter what space I was in, no matter what amazing transformation I went through, that was just 10% of it.
Speaker 1:90% of it was my waking life, the mundane, the challenges that arose, and so I started to look for frameworks and mentors and coaches and teachers to help me integrate and apply the learnings that came through these tremendous experiences, and so that's essentially what I do with people now is like whether the transformation is specific to our container, meaning we're focused on the breakthrough session or breathwork or whatever it might be in the alchemy of the container, or it's that they've already been on the path and they're looking to go deeper and integrate and create habits and behaviors and strategies around that that are going to help them live, feel the life they live, the life they want to live. Feel what they want to feel, see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear in their life. That's how I work with people and I absolutely love it. It's a gift, and I do wear that with a badge of pride and honor, and it just infiltrates every area of my life. It's like you know how it is.
Speaker 1:It's how I view the world now and so, yeah, yeah, it's been. It's been a hell of a journey. I still work in music, I'm still a producer and a songwriter and and work with people in the creative side, but a lot of what I'm focused on are transformative experiences through those sessions, through those retreats, through those immersions and those coaching.
Speaker 2:Let me ask you a couple. Thank you, mike. That was beautiful man and it's also great and it's it's apparent. So, for those that don't know, working with Mike, what he spoke to was the integration and it comes through with this guy and that's what I was saying in the beginning. And again, you know, every, every coach needs a coach, every healer needs a healer. All these people we all need to keep.
Speaker 2:I always like this idea of I'm on the wrong side of my face and I'm on the wrong side of my face and I need people to show me me, because I'm in my blind spots, and Mike is definitely one of those men that has really held and I love that word container in in helping me see those spots that you know.
Speaker 2:Look, I don't give a shit how long we've been doing this work right. There's still room to grow, there's still space to evolve. I mean, I think, and that's what life is about. So the integration part is the necessary thing, because I get that, you know, out here in this and it's great and I can float out there all day, but I don't live there right. I don't live in the cosmos all the time. I have to operate in this physical form. I have to operate in this human humanness and I think that's where I think what you're calling to is that integration part. It's beautiful and I can be in the woo too and I can live there, but in this connection from human to human is where we have to operate. But in this connection from human to human is where we have to operate.
Speaker 1:You know, 90% of the time, yeah, that's where all the information comes in. You know, like I found myself for many years, it was kind of convincing myself that I was doing this like deep work and it's not that I wasn't right, it wasn't that I was ignoring my problems but it would always have to mean something spiritual and I would have to connect to something bigger. And what I found was I was kind of spiritually bypassing myself. I was bypassing Mike and the responsibilities that I have and the relationships I hold and the goals that I have set out for myself, whether that's directly associated with my purpose or it's just directly associated with resources for my family or for my ecology, whatever it is. It became clear to me.
Speaker 1:And so, again, I can go down K-holes of philosophy, k-holes of philosophy. I can go down K-holes about spiritual essence and alternate dimensions and Akashic record readings and all that stuff, and I think it's brilliant and I think it's amazing and I still hold true to that connection. But again, like you said, we're human beings, we're here to learn through this body, and so my work has been a combination of both directly associating and the humility of being me and dealing with what I've been through as a human being, and then also disassociating healthfully to see a bigger picture, to have that kind of you know, 35,000 foot view where you see your life and you see the context. But you have to know how to move through the move through, uh, back and forth from the two, the flow between the two. So I just I needed to feel more, you know, wholeheartedly. Now I've been opening up even more and more to that, especially with my son.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do want to get to that. So we're going to pause just right there, cause I do want to, cause I want, I do want to get to that. So we're going to pause just right there because I do want to go into that, because I think this is a lot of the work that I'm really excited about what you're bringing and I'm going to let you do that because that's your baby to talk about little talk that we had. I think that was one of the meaningful ones and there's been many meaningful ones with you, mike but one of the ones I think was in the very interim of our meeting with each other and you said there was a lot.
Speaker 2:I can't verbatimly say exactly what you said because it was so elegant at that time but the whole understanding of it was exactly that.
Speaker 2:It was a lot of out, and now it's like here and again, you know, in, in, in, what we were just kind of describing, but it was coming back into here and you said it in this beautiful way and it was just this light and and there's been many lights with you, let's just put it that way and actually some of the stuff we do, we we've had many conversations where I think in actually at that workshop with you and your wife in the beginning, we kind of I love the flow of it. So, absolutely, I appreciate you. Yeah, it's so good to hear more of that now. Yeah, I like to, because, yes, you just brought up you and your baby and I think that has been somewhat of another kind of like a rite of passage, a new opening in your own development itself and being this brand new father and from father to father, I can understand that. So I would love to hear more about that journey and kind of you know your visions behind that and maybe kind of what you're doing with that work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, of course. So before I dive into that, because it is, it's a, it's kind of a parallel to it, it may have been this concept when we were talking in that moment of living vertically versus horizontally right.
Speaker 1:So, living vertically just means being in your own space, your own energy, your own body, your own heart. And what is really interesting is when my son came to us and he was born and there's a whole portal of pre-fatherhood fear and all this stuff before fatherhood portal of pre-fatherhood fear and all this stuff before fatherhood. But when he came, there was like this understanding that if I'm going to lead my son and he's so young right now, but I think every moment counts If I'm going to lead my son to be self-sufficient, then I need to lead by being self-sufficient, meaning I need to take care of my own heart, I need to give space and time, have healthy habits, all these things. So living vertically so that I can live so deeply horizontally and from that full cup, so with my son, you know it, it, it has completely opened up so many depths in me as well as in my wife.
Speaker 1:And you know again, you know we're, we're always doing this work. It's not like I think people in the beginning are focused on a fixed destination, Like if I just get there, if I get this awareness or if I clear this out, I'll feel this and it's not untrue At the same time. This path isn't a fixed destination.
Speaker 1:It's an ever evolving moving target destination. It's an ever evolving moving target and one thing that I can say is my son, coming into my life, completely gave context to everything I'm already doing. It lit all the shit up that I shouldn't be doing, that I'm still doing, right. And that was the whole portal of becoming a father and the pre fatherhood period, as well as, like, a little bit of the post too, and it's always happening, you know, in subtle ways, right. And then also clarifying, like, where is it that I'm leading my family and myself. And one thing I said on.
Speaker 1:I was on another podcast and I said something along the lines of, like you know, I think oftentimes I mean this is clear for everyone we don't want to be like our parents, so we do everything we can more deeply so that we're not hurt in the same ways, or they're not hurt in the same ways we are. It's natural psychology, right. At the same time, what I'm beginning to learn more and more about At the same time, what I'm beginning to learn more and more about is that I truthfully do not have a vision for my son. I don't have a vision of what his life should or shouldn't be. I don't have a vision of what he's supposed to talk like or not talk like, or what he's going to be interested or should be interested and isn't interested in.
Speaker 1:I have a vision for myself and my wife, and when we hold true to that vision, we're able to guide in a much more visceral way by being the example right.
Speaker 1:If I want my son to have. For instance, if I want to gift my son the opportunity to be emotionally intelligent, again opportunity, because it's always a choice. There's so many variables, but just the opportunity to be emotionally intelligent Again opportunity, because it's always a choice. There's so many variables, but just the opportunity. Teaching him the skills is one thing, and of course I will, but being emotionally intelligent will take him in a whole other depth right.
Speaker 1:Being responsible, being accountable, being loving and kind, being forgiving is going to be a lot more important than the words that I speak to him, but even the places I bring him Right. So when I really think about our lives, I really consistently gravitate around this idea that if, if I, if I can stand true to a vision of myself, a vision of Eileen, and then just a vision of our family container, not him, but our whole container of how we would like to operate, and, of course, as fathers, we set boundaries, we set structure, we have to put some type of stuff around it. Right, I'm not going to watch my kid run into traffic, I'm gonna be like hey, bud, you know, it's a teaching moment and also honoring that, this whole being's coming in and I want to honor the being, not the, not the projections that I have, right.
Speaker 1:So I need to address my own projections. Then I need to address my own deep, you know, shadow and and anima, animus, work within myself, within my wife. All of that, plus the spiritual content, the energetic content and even the limiting beliefs that are present, that are still present, that are subtle, right Even in the way that I interact with my family and setting that example. There's so many depths to it, that I interact with my family and setting that example, there's so many depths to it. What I can say is and you know this too as a father, having a son specifically, but having a child grounds the shit out of you Because no matter where you're floating in La La Land, you have clear responsibilities, at the very least to keep this child alive. Clear responsibilities at the very least to keep this child alive, to keep a roof over their head there's, like you know it's like there's real human things that you have to
Speaker 1:set up insurance, you have to do all the things right and sometimes there really isn't like a spiritual context to it. But what I found in that is that you can look to those as an opportunity to grow right. For instance, if I call insurance and I'm setting insurance up for my son and I'm sure you've experienced the craziness of California insurance it's like all over the place.
Speaker 1:You know, I can choose to just set up insurance or I can choose to look to it as an opportunity to build patience because my son is going to be in a position when he's older, set up insurance, or I can choose to look to it as an opportunity to build patience, because my son is going to be in a position when he's older whether he's getting insurance or talking to someone that may or may not be helpful to find it in himself to still be patient in those moments. So, again, it may not be extremely spiritual to be on the phone with an insurance agent, but there is an angle that you can approach it, and I've approached every single angle with my son as not only in an opportunity to grow myself but also as an opportunity to show up fully for him, fully.
Speaker 1:And I mean like being able to just play with him, with, with no prerogative, like just be in that play with him and, of course, the by-product of that it's it's extremely healing for our inner children. It's it's extremely healing for even playing.
Speaker 2:You are your. Your child is playing with his child, that's what's so beautiful?
Speaker 1:It's that beautiful exchange right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so, you know, the more and again that can happen, naturally, and it does, and we can get caught in the responsibility and the weight of being a father. So it's a combination of grounding into the clear responsibilities you have, not taking all of those responsibilities too seriously as to take away from the moments that you'll be able to connect and play with your, with your children, with your son, with my son, and so it's this kind of dance, it's like which is, which is a parallel to life. Like you know, there's moments to be in the seriousness, like if someone comes to me and they're a client and they just lost their parent, like I'm not gonna sit there and crack jokes you know I'm gonna.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna to hold space and I'm not going to give them maybe advice if they're asking, but I'm not going to sit there and coach them. They just need space to be held.
Speaker 2:They're going through a moment and that is a serious moment.
Speaker 1:And then there's a lot of things that we label serious that aren't that serious. So, my son's been teaching me that because his oh my gosh. Thank you for calling it yeah. His, his, his ability to move in and out of emotion like water is is mind blowing. It's mind blowing and it shows you that there is, first off, there's space to feel emotion Always.
Speaker 1:There should be space to feel emotion. There should be space to feel emotion. And how quickly you return to a semblance of presence out of or even if you're present with the emotion. If you're truly present with the emotion, you'll eventually change into something else, and he does that. He'll be like, he'll go through a crying spell for like three minutes and then I'll make a sound and he'll be like and and that's it he's out of it and it's, and it's not even about distraction, it's about, in a way, redirection, but it's just, his presence is so visceral.
Speaker 1:You know, both my wife and I have been learning a lot from him and continue to learn a lot from him, and, you know, I think that's what we're going to continue to hold in our prayer and in our awareness and in our intention is yes, we're here to set up bumpers so that he doesn't get hurt and he learns the things that are going to be helpful for him. But at the end of the day, we're sitting here with probably a being that's much more connected than we think we are. Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's what these little people are teaching us and you know, and again, just from father to father, I mean, our kids are at different ages, but still I'm learning this patience, this acceptance, this just being in that moment, because that's all they really are is in that moment. And you know, my son's name translates to gift and it's that idea is because he keeps giving me that gift to show I mean speaking from the example, right, they're in the present moment, say, they're playing with legos, and that's what they're doing. They're playing with legos, I'm building legos. Yeah, the person that's anxiety driven and thinking about the next thing that we're doing is me. Yeah, and it's a moment, right, it's me, the one that's like, oh, how long do we have to build this castle for? I mean, right, it's my impatience, it's my stuff that I'm pressed up against, it's my edge, like you say.
Speaker 2:And at that moment, the gift right there, oh, wait, and then he teaches me be here now. All that is not important. You know the calls you have to make, the work you have to do, the dishes you have to do. Right, here is the importance. And even if it's for that hour, or even for that 45 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever, if you give that presence, it's everything. Your whole world opens up. And these little beings, these little beings are like teaching us this all the time and it's just so amazing to witness. So I agree with you. I would imagine too. I mean, if you know, not only is he teaching you and your wife, but you and your wife are also learning in the engagement now with this. You know this extra person here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a, it's a whole new dance. And one thing I'll touch on kind of what you were saying that was really beautiful is my wife very gently pointed something out to me that I wasn't aware of, and it was super simple. Marcelo is playing with a toy and he's in a position now where he's able to kind of entertain himself. Right Now there's two things popping up when I go and do this thing that I'll talk about in a second, so I'll go and I'll, and I'll go play with them, right, and my wife I'll talk.
Speaker 1:I'll talk about those two things. But my wife said simply to me hey, so when he's playing, let him continue to play with what he's playing, and then when he moves on, that's an opportunity. And I started to think about that and I was like okay, where's?
Speaker 2:that coming from Where's?
Speaker 1:my need to go and, like you know and it's love I want to go hang out with my son. I want to. That's undeniable, undeniable, and there's a subtlety of needing something from him right, needing to create a moment with my son when he's doing his thing. He's out there playing with his toy. He's completely immersed. It's like I can learn so much by just watching him play. I don't need to infiltrate the moment. It's a really subtle thing that my wife had pointed out to me really beautifully too, and it completely changed the game. It also helped me as well. It helped me when I am taking care of my son. I think the tendency is that when I was first a father, I wanted to make sure he was good, entertain all the things, and sometimes at this age, sometimes my son is just doing his thing. I don't need to do anything. He's just doing his thing. So why am I not doing my thing?
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Like whatever that looks like, whether it's just sitting silently or it's maybe there's whatever it looks like and so it's helped me shift as well A really beautiful balance when I am watching him, of those moments we do share and, and you know, every every morning I have a moment with him which I'm it's like my favorite thing in the entire day is like turning over. He's like just waking up and he always smiles right in the morning. And you know how it is when they're that age like, they're kind of like, just like for him. He just kind of chills and looks he's not yet getting active and moving his body, he's just like and I'll smile and I'll go over, and those moments are so priceless for me.
Speaker 1:So priceless, and I've also let go of the need to go and be a part of what he's doing. You know which? Back to my back to my original point. If I want him to be self-sufficient and I have to be self-sufficient as far- as as far as my relationship with Eileen. Yeah, as far as my relationship with Eileen. Yeah, I mean, you know it is a huge recalibration.
Speaker 1:Huge recalibration, not only individually but as a relationship and like time, was a really important thing that I needed to learn like respect and reverence around and take back my agency around my time, especially because if I don't, it's just a domino and at the same time, also propelling us forward. With my wife and I like setting up date nights, setting up times where we do connect and being more in that dance, and it takes time. First three months it's a lot of transitioning and a lot of mom and child moments, because that's what the baby wants it's needed.
Speaker 1:But, Eileen and I, part of the beauty of moving up here is the spaciousness we have and we just onboarded. We haven't had a nanny at all since till this point and we just found an amazing, amazing nanny.
Speaker 1:She has a two year old she like is in the same spaces as us, and so her coming over is also allowing Eileen some alone time to do the things she wants to do take care of herself, whether it's meditate, work out or just be outside on the hammock. And eventually, you know, in the next probably two weeks, three weeks, we're going to have more of spaciousness for us. It's kind of like the Wawa West for a while, because, you know, you think the baby's?
Speaker 1:going to stay asleep and then all of a sudden, mom's in and out of the room every two 20 minutes or 30 minutes. Um, so, yeah, it's a great recalibration moment. Um, it's a deep recalibration moment and I think it strips away and pokes at all the holes, right, yeah, in the relationship, in a good way. We're in a position where you know our son, he's, he's aware, but he's not, you know, not communicating and observing in the same way that he will be in a year.
Speaker 1:So we have this time, and we're taking the time with our respective coaches and mentors, as well as with each other, to make sure that, by the time, marcelo is communicating, speaking, observing more and more and more that we're ironing out the kinks of our relationship.
Speaker 2:I was going to call that because there's many more right. There are, yeah, more and more and more that we're ironing out the kinks of our relationship. I was going to call that. I was going to call that because there's many more right. I mean, there are many seasons of recalibrating. As he's recalibrating in his life, you guys are going to be recalibrating as well, individually and as in that relationship.
Speaker 2:This is why I love that you're really building that now with that deeper understanding, which is going to get way into one thing that I do want to ask you because of that preliminary work but hold on that one, because when you were talking about this, I have this thing that I talk about, obviously working with clients and being, you know, coaching and stuff and this kind of healing arena, and there's this idea of knowing when to follow, knowing when to lead and knowing when to wait. And when you were talking about Marcelo, it's like that moment of playing and it's like knowing when I need to lead it, knowing when I need to wait do I need to follow him? But also, individually right, we're knowing when we need to lead it in our own personal development of life, where do we wait, where do we follow? And as well as the relationship. So this you know if you're talking about the units and the family or whatever and creating that. So absolutely it was a beautiful yeah, it's a beautiful vision. I want to dive into it. So I don't want to lose where we were going, because, as we're really putting this and really setting that nice foundation A lot of like what you said the internal work, you know, the preparation individually we started this journey with what was the catalyst for you and really grounding into understanding how do I integrate this and then the blessing of marcello into your life, right, I mean, obviously your wife too, but then another blessing of this of marcello, and so I really want to bring this into this nice thing about where do you vision this?
Speaker 2:Because here you are brand new father, you're seeing some stuff. I really would love for you to speak from that, if you can, if you could take some time into your vision around that and fathers.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you know one thing, that was at the time that I was becoming a father. There were a few other fathers in my field. You know you were in my field. We haven't we hadn't yet at that point been communicating more frequently. And then there were some fathers that had had their children about a year before me.
Speaker 1:But in that time I kind of felt like I was going through it on my own and I had a coach and he was very, very helpful and is still very, very helpful, and we didn't work directly around fatherhood, we worked around career and masculinity, which was a beautiful kind of alchemical container that worked really hand in hand. Of course it positively affected me in all the other areas of life. But I was really like I was searching for some kind of mentorship, right, at least some level of initiation, because the only initiation that was imminent was I was having a baby. That was the only initiation I was having. You know, the months leading up into his birth, you know I went on a diet in Peru. I started working with that coach. I was doing a lot of my own work and as it got closer, you know Eileen was taking some birthing courses that were really helpful and I and I really I told her I was like the moment it starts to be things that I should know. Just tag me in and so I'll like tag, team it with you and I'll learn what I need to learn.
Speaker 1:Really, it never got to that place. You know, anything that was talked about with the partner we were already doing we're breathwork facilitators, like we work in the space, so like we were already foundationally communicating on that level. So I started doing some research and I was like, is there anything out there to help fathers prepare for this immense transformation that's about to happen? And I found a couple things. I took like probably three hours of a course and it was really about like changing diapers and you know shit you could fucking find on YouTube. To be honest, it was, it was 49 bucks, so I should have known.
Speaker 1:But, but the but? The point is I was like where, like what you know again, some of my mentors, my mentors even my coach, he hadn't had a kid yet my spiritual mentors didn't have kids. I was like, shit, I need some like brothers who are fathers to like lead me into this. Yeah, I'm so grateful that I I really didn't have that at that time, because what I was able to figure out on my own was what really worked to help prepare me, first and foremost, for the birth, because I believe that the birth whether you're having in the hospital or at home or in the middle of the woods, doesn't matter, or birthing center being grounded and present are the only two things you need to focus on like all the information, all the stuff less important Grounded, focused, present.
Speaker 1:I did all the work around that. I was like whatever is in me that needs to move and needs to be addressed and needs to be released and processed, that's holding me back from being grounded and present on my day-to-day. In my day-to-day, I'm going to work on that, Plus communication styles, plus all these other things that I knew would be the foundation of preparing for what it's going to be like, not only as a father later, but also in the relationship, Because, again, you know what we're really. Our role in the, in that whole container of nine months and then even the first three months, is supporting our partner. It's supporting our partner. It's making sure they're good, making sure they're ready. They're going through way more changes than we are. We're going through changes, but they're going through.
Speaker 1:like I always say, it's like 95 to 99% the woman and then the man is like maybe 1% to 3% is like your responsibility during that time.
Speaker 1:But it doesn't mean that that one to 3% isn't important. It doesn't mean that what you're going to be doing is it going to be impactful. So, after this whole period of time, after Marcelo came in and, you know, shook my world, shook Eileen's world, shook our family's world and our college's world and I was like, damn, I really need to make something. I need to create something because because I didn't have, like, specific people to lean on or frameworks to lean on, you know, including my own father, who I love dearly, by the way, and you know he was a young parent. He did really well, all things considered, having me when he was 19, right, like did really well.
Speaker 1:There wasn't as much support there, because he's also going through his transformation and his own stuff.
Speaker 1:Right, he's figuring his stuff out. And so I was like, first and foremost, I want to arm people with the tools that I learned. I want to arm people fathers to be, soon to be, fathers with communication styles, learning styles, with emotional intelligence and understanding what stoicism is, understanding the masculine core, which is structure, safety, your habits again, I'll talk about baggage and release work but your habits are the framework, they're the architect of your life, what you do on a day-to-day basis. Now, if you have baggage and you have things and traumas that you need to address, you could change all your habits. They're going to come back and they're going to come back in all different ways. Right, you're not going to feel what you want to feel as a result of your habits. You have to address the deeper stuff, and that's what I did, and I have parts of the container. It's called Paternal Instinct.
Speaker 1:It's a six-week incubator and part of it is around release work and around how to work with limiting beliefs and what questions to ask yourself and, more importantly, to just become aware that there are things holding you back that are deeper, that you have to address at some point, hopefully now, before your kid comes in and then you're going to address it later too.
Speaker 2:It's not like you're done.
Speaker 1:So I brought five gentlemen through a beta, a beta group, and we finished up two weeks ago and I created, created the whole course, kind of channeled it. I knew exactly what I wanted to be in the course and I just kind of tested it with these brothers. A lot of all, all five people that I knew, some people that I hadn't spoken to in a while but just like, came through my field, all about to be fathers. Two of them had their babies the last day, the day of the last super Epic. They got five weeks of really amazing content and, um, it was amazing. You know everybody, everybody had a really beautiful experience in it. They, they learned something new through it and that's the most important thing for me.
Speaker 1:It's not about absorbing every single intricacy of the teaching. It's like as long as what this incubator is makes you feel more prepared for what's next and allows you to start to put some attention on some of the fears that are coming up. I think the number one fear for most fathers is um is being able to provide. That's like the number one fear. The second fear, after not being able to provide, is usually will my anger come up? Will will my, will my stuff come up, will I be like my father? Will I be like all that, right I agree, yeah, which is?
Speaker 1:yeah, which is, which is equally as important as the first, of providing. Providing tends to be the first thing. Everyone thinks that. Everyone has the idea that babies are really expensive. It's undeniable, depending on what you want to do later for schooling and all that it adds up eats, he sleeps, that's what he does, right, like he plays with six toys A lot of the time he wants to play with, like, other things that aren't his toys. He's really simple, most babies are. They don't need a lot. So, but anyway, that that providing aspect. And then the fear there's. Really, it's just fear If we want to pull everything into fear, fear of not being able to show up fear of not being able, it's just fear.
Speaker 1:So in this course I talk about that, you know I talk about and try to take away some of the, like you know, stigmatism around having those fears, because something that became really clear to me even up to this last weekend, this past weekend I had an immersion with a coaching client and one of the things that came through was around fear. It's like you know, fear is sacred. Having fear means that what, first and foremost, you're growing, you're evolving, changing, and the fear can be an indicator, if you choose to look at it that way, that whatever is next is even bigger than you can imagine. Because when you're on the edge of a forest that you've lived in your whole life and you've never ventured out of the sequoias, and you take one step out and you look over the horizon and there's a huge forest, you're probably going to fear a little bit of that experience. That's good, it's good, it's good, it's not negative, right, and so you know, a lot of it is around addressing and putting some energy around the fear, not necessarily putting energy into amplifying it, but more so putting energy around being intentional and aware of it, and then tools and frameworks that help you move past it.
Speaker 1:Like most communication between your partner and between you and a child is miscommunication. That's it. It's just one person saying another and hearing another thing and vice versa. Absolutely the communication styles I learned. That I learned through NLP and some other frameworks. That alone is really amazing Setting up an avatar of what kind of father you want to be, what kind of family you want to have, what values you have all that stuff.
Speaker 1:You're putting yourself in a position where you're not just thinking about I'll get to the birth and figure it out. You're like, okay, yeah, what I want to be during the birth, I can think and put energy in that. And beyond that, where am I leading my family? What kind of values are most important to me as a father? And that is the way that we weigh and measure our behaviors. And you just look at that.
Speaker 1:So it is partially to prepare for the birth, partially to prepare for your own transformation, becoming the father and and stepping into that role. And then it's the third part of it is visioning into the future of where you're leading your family and all the little intricacies around that. So yeah, man, I'm I'm super excited, I'm getting into the filming and the you know the all the little intricacies around that. So, yeah, man, I'm super excited, I'm getting into the filming and all the course is done. I just need to go and film it and then post it and then I'm going to start marketing and getting everything out there. But it's been in the incubator for over a year. At this point it wasn't, you know, and it's a passion project for me, beyond just an offering it's. I'm really passionate about it, because there's just nothing out there. There's nothing out there.
Speaker 2:And then I was really excited when you were speaking of it and this is this is really also, too, why it's calling us together. I mean, obviously this is, you know, a lot of my audience is kind of men. I mean, women can listen to some of this stuff as well. I think it's needed for everyone in the system to listen to it. But you know that importance for men and, speaking for my own, I'll just join you on that from speaking from my own experience obviously and you know a little bit of mine I have an absentee father. We don't have to go into all the detail when I was about to have my child, I was scared. So when you brought up that fear, I felt it right. I remember that moment of just being so scared that the fortunate thing because I kind of accessed my transformation, getting clean I was six years clean at the time and I kind of held it with faith and I can lean into that. And obviously it's not being a perfect father, we understand that. But I think that was enough foundation and the reality was what I've come to understanding is from that experience, the deep, what you talked about trauma, work around that. I am the father I am today because of my father. It was like this beautiful loving space instead of like I don't want to be my father. I don't want to be my father. It's like, wow, the gifts that were presented because of that experience gave me this permission and invitation to be a father. So I just wanted to call that and this is. I love that work, I love what you were doing when you talked about it and that's why I want people to really hear it from you Again.
Speaker 2:This is your baby and I think it's needed for all the men out there again planning to be fathers amongst the days of being fathers wherever you might be. Just the work in itself. Again, that is just part of what you do. Yeah, but Mike, does this really beautiful work with men as well. Tomorrow or nine months from now, if there's anybody in your life really working on the embodiment, the masculinity work, the emotional regulation stuff, looking at your belief systems that are keeping you stuck in stories that are affecting you know, all facets of your life, well, mike does beautiful work. So, again, love the fathers to be.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge fan of the work that you do. You already know that I call you. I've called him crying. Yes, it's true Because, like I said, I am on the wrong side of my face. I need to see me where I'm not seeing me. I think people, we come in almost as auxiliary consciousness, right, I'm stuck somewhere, I'm stuck somewhere, I'm stuck somewhere, and then you just show up as that auxiliary conscious, I'm like, oh wow, I'm very grateful and honored to serve you in those moments.
Speaker 1:And you know we learn from each other. I think we all do, and I agree. I mean we no matter what area in your life you're at, whatever part of your journey you're at, whether somewhere in you you're single and you know you're going to be a father one day, everything you do now will absolutely prepare you for that. So, even though you may not have your ideal partner or a partner, but you have something in you that is saying I will be a father one day, or you're in a relationship trying or wanting to try at some point or any point of the journey, whether it's paternal instinct because, again, paternal instinct niche is soon to be fathers it doesn't mean that someone who isn't having a baby right away won't benefit from it, because that information is beyond fatherhood. That's. I wanted to make a course that applied more than just to soon-to-be fathers, meaning I wanted it to hit every area mental, emotional, physical and spiritual. I wanted it to really be a deep learning and deep teaching. But even beyond that, I work with a lot of women and men around habits, setting up your life. Of course we, first and foremost, we got to become aware of that which is in the way and we have to release that which is in the way. Process that, feel that and then from there it's like, okay, now that you're seeing more clearly. A lot, lot of people say, well, now what? Okay, we need to strategize and look at your life and set up the habits, set up the skills, set up the behavior, set up all of the things, even if it is skill acquisition that you're looking for or it's just straight up your vision of your life. Who are you going to be in 10 years and nine years and eight years and seven years? What are you going to feel as a result of being that person? What are you going to be doing as that person? What are you going to be needing to have along the way as signs on the side of a highway?
Speaker 1:It's like I gave this analogy today to a potential new client. I said to him that we're like ships at sea wanting to go to this amazing island. We see on the forefront of the waves and we see the island, but we're not moving. And the reason we're not moving is because our anchor a thousand fucking pound anchor is propelled into our roots I mean propelled into the ground when we cut that out or when we trim that baggage, when we let go of what we need to. If we don't steer and put in any sort of directions and allow everything to happen the way they are, you probably won't hit the island you want to hit. And we look at that island. Even if you see it or if you don't see it, you know it's out there. That's your ideal life. The boat itself is you and everyone that's working on the boat is your unconscious mind.
Speaker 2:The engine itself is you and everyone that's working on the boat is your unconscious mind the engine.
Speaker 1:That's right, so that's right again. It's like, yes, first, the first and foremost, you got to address anything that's keeping you in the quicksand and then, from there, it's clarifying where you're going, putting in the coordinates. And it's not about being rigid. I have to be there, I must have these criteria. It's not about that. It's about giving yourself some good bumpers of direction. Where am I going to channel all this new energy toward? And that's what the course around fatherhood is about. All this new energy that you're feeling, all the fear, all the beauty, all of it, where are you channeling it? Because if you're not channeling it toward the type of father you want to be, then you're going to be pulled into every emotional storm. You're going to be pulled into every fear. You're going to feel like a little bit out of control at times, and I have a phrase like wouldn't it be a lot more beneficial to choose to fall apart consciously?
Speaker 1:than to allow life to throw you and smack you around like a doll Take back your agency, take back the power that God gave you as a co-creator and start to directionalize your life. And so the fatherhood is one angle. I believe that course hits all other angles too, because it is deep. And then there's so many other angles. There's relationships, there's career, there's spirituality, purpose and energy. There's personal growth, your relationship with self, your mental and emotional state. There's physical health. There's a lot of different angles, but it's all leading to who you want to be, what you want to feel. Angles, but it's all leading to who you want to be, what you want to feel. I mean, think about this for a second. What are we doing or having? That isn't for a feeling. We're in a relationship to feel loved, accepted, seen, even forgiven. We go and work out to feel strong, feel the vitality, feel the energy in our body, feel like we're capable. Everything that we're putting action toward is to feel. It comes back to being so.
Speaker 1:In the alchemy, I mean specifically for fathers, to be, soon to be fathers. You're in the most transformational pocket of your life, straight up, and then the second pocket of that life, as far as what's most transformational is eventually when you got to let go of your child and he or she is off in the world and you got to deal with all that, and I have no idea what that feels like. I'm not even going to be able to do that, and even from your vantage point, I don't know what it feels like to have an 11, 12 year old either. So it's like you know. That's why I'm not teaching how to be a father. I'm teaching how to be a father. I'm teaching how to prepare for fatherhood, because the frameworks apply and I probably am going to figure out that they apply as a father, absolutely, but there's going to be iterations of it that'll shift around focuses.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you're a visionary man. You're going to put it all together.
Speaker 1:It's going to all come in, it'll come together.
Speaker 2:I trust it. I trust it. I trust it. Yeah, a hundred percent man. It's going to all come in, it'll come together. I trust it. I trust it. Yeah, 100% man. Whoa, and with that man I don't know. That was just beautifully put there at the end. I think that was all it, mike. So, honored man, I can't wait to get up and see your land. I am going to obviously have all the ways that you can get in contact with mike here on the little uh caption underneath. So reach out, see what he's up to, if any of these things. Again, he does work co-ed right, so that is also available. Uh, amongst this beautiful thing that he's putting together with fathers to be um, mike man. Miss you, brother. That was. It was hard when you moved away.
Speaker 1:I already told you that but but I can't Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. I don't know if I have anything more to say after that, because the way you wrap that into this beautiful package, there's no need to touch it. There's no need to touch that stuff. Again, thanks everybody for tuning in. This is Matt Uncaved, I am Shane, as we need to come out of hiding.