Man (Un)Caved

(Un)spoken: Navigating Men's Sexual Shadows with Men's Coach Kate Kali

• Shane Coyle • Season 3 • Episode 10

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Have you ever wondered what might be hiding in the shadows of your sexuality? What parts of yourself you've tucked away due to shame, societal conditioning, or past wounds?

Kate Kali, hypnotherapist and men's coach with a quarter-million followers across platforms, joins us for a raw, unfiltered exploration of the male sexual shadow. Together, we dive into why men often hide their deepest sexual truths and how this concealment creates ripple effects throughout relationships and personal fulfillment.

This conversation isn't just about sex—it's about presence, connection, and authenticity. Kate reveals what women truly desire (hint: it's not about performance) and why many men miss the mark by focusing on the wrong metrics. "We want all of you," she explains. "We want the full animal expression...that is actually what causes us to feel safe and surrendered." When men get caught in their heads during intimate moments, the entire circuit of connection breaks, leaving both partners unsatisfied and disconnected.

The most powerful revelation? Your sexual shadow—those parts of yourself you've learned to repress or feel ashamed about—doesn't simply disappear when ignored. It emerges sideways through destructive behaviors, emotional distance, or relationship struggles. Mother wounds, father wounds, early shame experiences—all create distortions in how men relate to their sexuality and to women. But through shadow work and conscious awareness, these wounds become gateways to profound connection and authentic self-expression.

Whether you're struggling with communicating desires, feeling anxious about performance, or simply sensing there's more depth possible in your intimate relationships, this episode offers compassionate insight and practical wisdom. Listen now to discover how coming out of hiding might be the most courageous—and rewarding—step you'll ever take.

If you enjoyed this episode with Kate Kali and feel called to go deeper, we’ve got you covered. Whether you’re interested in working with her, following her work, or exploring more of what she offers — here are some useful links.

Website: https://katekali.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kate__kali/

TikTok: tiktok.com/@kate__kali?_t=8nYavrBSonK&_r=1

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@kate__kali

Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-deep-podcast/id1612975820

Speaker 1:

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of man Uncaved. I am so excited about this episode. I had the great, great pleasure to sit with a dear friend of mine, Kate Colley. She is a hypnotherapist, a men's coach, with over a quarter million followers across all of her platforms. She specializes in rewiring the subconscious mind to overcome those lifelong patterns related to trauma attachment wounds to, ultimately, those lifelong patterns related to trauma attachment wounds to ultimately achieve our own radical authenticity. This girl is no joke. I am so excited about this episode. In this episode, Kate and I dive into the sexual shadow with men so ultimately we can come out of hiding. Let's get into it. Something that I, when I work with men, that I like to personally go into with men, is the sexual shadow. And have you heard of this? Do you work with men? That kind of talk about this?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sometimes it comes up. But I think it's so important that we're having this conversation and for a light to be on it, because I even feel like in my one-on-one work with men, they will reveal everything except for the sexual shadow. They will even then leave it out or they won't speak to it explicitly because there's so much shame, there's so much fear, there's so much just kind of taboo or insecurity talking about their penis, especially with a woman.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely Penis, and I think, yes, penis is part of that. Um, so what I've found working with a lot of men that we don't talk about. Where I like to actually go with is to and this is more in the group dynamic with men is talk about those insecurities around the idea of sex, and there's so many layers that can create what you talked about taboos around it. You and I talk about it from the wounded place and I'm just going to speak openly from my own experience from sexual trauma, where at a very early age, the idea of sex is very skewed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah right, it's very skewed. At an age I was too young to even understand what sex was, um so, and what I have found worth working with men. But I'm gathering from from anybody the one thing that could be really shaming is going to sometimes be around sex, um, whether that be family systems that aren't comfortable talking about sex with a child. You know, catching masturbation at a young age, looking at pornography at a young age, so it can be internalized very shaming in that experience when it's actually an open expression to understand self.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

You have. You know, religion can play into some of that taboo. Society gives mixed messages about what is sex, what's not sex, how do we behave? And so when I work with a lot of men and we start to look at what is the messaging that we had received and how does that move us into our adult relationships where we can stay, the word and terminology I use is stay in hiding.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Right, do you want to speak to some?

Speaker 2:

of that. No, go for it. Yeah, stay in hiding.

Speaker 1:

Well, stay in hiding because, again, you know, if we understand, shame is about hiding ourselves. So, shame. I'm feeling ashamed of that part of myself, so I hide that because I don't want other people to see that part of me. However, a lot of the work that I know that you do with men and I do is that the one thing to do is to come out of hiding. It's the only way we can be free, because when we're not, then we actually act out on those, and as sex could be not, then we actually act out on those and as sex could be infidelity.

Speaker 1:

Sex could be addiction to porn. Sex could be addicted to. You know casual encounters constantly, so that's one of the manifestations that could come. Or in relationships, engaging in relationships, I know there's a lot of men and I can speak for myself too. You know a lot of performance anxiety right um, size.

Speaker 1:

Size is difficult. You know it's like and, again, you know whatever that means. So I just thought we can open up a discussion and seeing first from a woman's perspective and, um, also, if you have any encounters and and get some insight around that, maybe from another from a woman's perspective yeah, absolutely I'm.

Speaker 2:

I am an open book so I will provide all of the insight. And it's just, it's such a fascinating topic because I could talk about the woman's sexual shadow all day long, right, because I talk to other women and we experience it and it's totally a thing.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

But I don't know if I could talk about the men's sexual shadow unless somebody is actually asking me explicit questions and how it lands in the female.

Speaker 2:

But to the point about shame, I think that's so important because at least in my work and I know in your work, like you said, that any type of uncomfortable emotion in the body so shame relative to sexual stuff, shame relative to sense of self, shame relative to anything when we bring the light of our awareness to the shame, the shame has the capacity to actually elevate into higher realms and shame elevates into uniqueness, Shame elevates into self-expression, because shame is not a negative emotion. It is negative to feel, but shame is actually the self-loving process that the body and the nervous system employs, usually at a young age, to maintain connection with the tribe, with the family unit, with society. And when that gets, when shame gets harbored in in a sexual sense and then part of a man's sexual expression and sexual self, you know, in his cock, wisdom in his root chakra, or however you want to call it, is repressed, is pushed away, then that's what happens, Like you were saying, that's when the acting out happens, because you can't actually get rid of a part of yourself. That's right.

Speaker 1:

It's impossible. That's right.

Speaker 2:

You can look at it, you can stare the fuck out of whatever it is inside of you and up-level it and bring it back to wholeness, but you can't get rid of a part of yourself, and I think that's what a lot of men do, is they have maybe so much shame around different parts of sexuality, different parts of their sexual self, and they are trying to get rid of it. They're trying to, because that's what shame wants you to believe.

Speaker 1:

That's right. Right, that's right.

Speaker 2:

So I'm just I'm excited to hear what kind of questions you have.

Speaker 1:

Well, there's probably so many. Just based on just that alone, I'm in agreement with you, because there's this idea shame can spiral you down. It also can spiral you up.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

You have to look at both directions, and I think, coming from a healthy shame moving to a toxic shame, then we come bound on it. I mean, then we're more willing to act out on it instead of using it as a catapult to move. There's more learning to do, there's more of a connection in the healthy understanding of it, and you spoke to something, and this is another thing that is really distinct is, too, is that men and women talk differently around this subject yeah I think women are openly more, I'd gather I've never.

Speaker 1:

You know, I'd love to be on a fly on the wall actually in this.

Speaker 1:

Maybe I would, maybe what, I don't know yes but they're openly talking about this from a a of connection of sisterhood. So with men it is difficult to engage in that. What do you think? What do you think, because I know you work with men and it could be some of that shame but for men to open up themselves around this idea we're talking about sex, maybe even the desires to have sex what do you think gets in the way for some of these men in the open expression of that? And maybe just looking at it from a partnership Now, this is someone that you're with sometimes.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's tough to say exactly because, to your point, that women talk about it very differently. Not all women, a lot of women obviously just won't have that conversation, but I'm just referencing my best friend and I, who we talk every single day. I mean, yeah, if you were to listen to our conversations, I feel this and then this happened and we will talk about not just in the sexual realm, but we will talk about it's so relational, it's so connected, it's so everything, anything goes, and we meet each other in this very fluid space and it's all really, really welcome in that space. And I'm not, I I'm not sure what blocks a man from talking about it. I'm imagining that it would be that there's so much pressure and I'm not sure if that's biological pressure or if that's um societal pressure but there's so much sexual pressure, I think for a man and potentially even more so for a woman, maybe uh, in which way?

Speaker 1:

in which way?

Speaker 2:

to perform. You know I mean well, do women.

Speaker 1:

So this is something very interesting. Yeah, and again, I don't know, because I'm I'm not a woman, but is that something that exists within women's discussion? So that is that the shadow. What are some of those shadows? This is something very interesting. We're just talking about the sexual shadow. It could be man or women. What are some of those shadows? This is something very interesting. We're just talking about the sexual shadow. It could be men or women. What are some of those sexual shadows that maybe women are kind of holding? Yeah, men don't obviously. No, we're not talking about them.

Speaker 2:

I mean one. I would say one of the sexual shadows that I do hear women talk about frequently is feeling pressure to orgasm or feeling like she owes that, she must give that, that must be something in order for the man to feel a certain way and how.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes because of the time of the month or what's going on in the day, or the feelings or the this or the that or whatever that sometimes it happens really quickly and sometimes it takes a lot longer and sometimes it's really difficult for us to get out of our head.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And in that same breath, a sexual shadow that kind of piggybacks off of that, is that women feel that we are in such masculine roles all the time, all the time. And you know, at the end of the day it's like it's not just this cut dry, like we can just switch from go go, go, go, go, go go to like. Okay, all of a sudden, now we're sexual and like open flower. Totally Like, yeah, like that, and you can't force the flower to open it's absolutely impossible, right Correct.

Speaker 2:

But you can't force it to open, but we can hide the opening Because you know, for a man it's like you either are erect or you're not. You can't hide it necessarily. I mean, as far as I know right, I mean you could take pills or whatever. Yeah, sure, like there's ways around it. But for a woman, we can subtly self-abandon.

Speaker 2:

And we do so. I think a lot of women do so from a place of wanting to be a good partner or wanting to be that sexual self. But it's those little micro self-abandonments of like oh, I wasn't fully feeling in my feminine, I actually needed three hours, or I needed this, or I needed more presence, or I needed more of this, but not wanting to be nagging, not wanting to be critical, and then just those little micro cuts of self-abandoning of like well, I will, I could be open with lube, right, like, or that can just happen, like I don't, you know, like the, the vagina doesn't necessarily, it's always open sort of like I don't know how else to say it Like it's not that you should always enter it, but like it's a different thing for a man where it's like he's either a wrecked or not, but like the vagina is just the vagina, it's like a it's.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's just there. Yeah, god, that's so true. It's so interesting to hear from the woman's perspective on that, and and and as far as as even orgasming climax because I know that for men that is a could be a very big determining factor, right, so have to get her to climax, have to get her to this where it can be very head driven in this head.

Speaker 2:

Hey, thank you for the distinction.

Speaker 1:

Yes, we're not embodying, we're not here, we're here, okay, here, yes, yeah. Which can break up connection from that. But I and I can, I can, I can speak for myself too. It's also, I think a lot of men are like that is the end, all be all, instead of how can we be in this moment of energy?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I think maybe that is received also on the woman's side. There is some of a disconnect. Maybe it can appear very one directional and maybe it's trying to accomplish something which can increase the pressure for women. And then, wow, it's so interesting, because then it's like I love that word you use circuit circuitry yeah um, because it makes sense to me.

Speaker 1:

It's like. Then it comes back to the man feeling, the disconnect feeling I have to perform more, feeling I'm not getting her to the place that I want to be. So then our own, our own stories come up. And I'm speaking it for mine, right? So our own stories come up, um, you know wherever speaking it for mine, right? So our own stories come up, you know wherever that can take them. I'm not good enough in the bed. I'm not this, you know I'm in whatever images you're having of what that should be, and what you're missing is actually the moment that you're having in that moment. How can we connect more in that moment?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, Because it's so important what we're talking about and what you're saying, because if we think about it as this circuitry, then for a man or a woman and I don't know if the chicken or the egg came first who the fuck knows? Don't even ask me because I don't want to answer that, but seeing the circuitry, and we're just going to use it from this example because that's what we're talking about.

Speaker 2:

But if a man enters his head because he wants the woman to orgasm, then he is sidestepping that circuitry, losing connection, and then there's a break in intimacy. And we talked about intimacy is into me. I see there's all these words or phrases around intimacy, but the intimacy is to truly be open and to be present and to fully see, to, to fully be with what is. But if either person enters their head, then that circuitry lessens a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Then all of a sudden the two people aren't the man and the woman are not fully on the same page anymore, because now there's like even you could call it like a covert contract, like, well, I don't feel good enough. If the man's like, well, you know, subconsciously somewhere, I don't feel good enough, I feel like I need you to orgasm or I need it to look a certain way in order for me to feel good enough. Then he has an agenda and then he's taking, and then the polarity is off.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Because the masculine is the giving force, it's the giving of presence. And then you know, for a woman, but you're not present. But you're not. Yeah, you're not present. There's a part of you that is running this story, attached to whatever worthiness or past experiences or wounding.

Speaker 1:

Or that porn you watch and you're supposed to be this like guy who goes like right all night.

Speaker 2:

I don't know I really yeah, I really you know I it's the the porn thing. You know I have this book called um like slow love and it's like a slow love. It's a tibetan book of pillow love making, or I don't know. I don't remember what the subtitle is, but it's so interesting because it talks about the, the nature of sex from the perspective of the polynesians and how they actually will just lay next to each other and not force anything.

Speaker 2:

It's really really slow until these natural things start to happen, so there's no projecting onto it, whereas porn gives us the opposite message, what we see in the movies gives us the opposite message where it's this constant thing that looks a certain way, and I think, because we have men and women have so many of these visuals in our head that we can lose touch to just the natural unfolding of it.

Speaker 1:

The natural energy of feeling of that energy?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that in itself ignites some of the deeper beliefs around it, some of the deeper insecurities that I'm just speaking from the men we carry, and, again, narrative woundings belief systems, and so that just continues to get activated. And as a man and I've seen this a lot with men, and I'm just again, I'm only speaking from my own perspective too so I become restrictive of asking for certain things too, where I we have you and I had this we've talked about even having the desires. Can I have desires? And again, it doesn't have to be in a can I ask for what I'm wanting?

Speaker 1:

yeah in the sexual it pertaining to sex, right yeah, pertaining to touch or whatever that starts to look like am I allowed to have those needs and can I express those needs? Because there is a societal lens that we don't want to be perceived as that guy you know that guy who's. You know that's the main driver, you know the one who's just seeking that. So I think there's a part of that that we also carry that can lay into the shadow of it for us.

Speaker 2:

Right, and so do you find, as a man and with the men that you've worked with, like when you have these needs and these desires pertaining to sex and it's not on the table? Does that also withdraw presence?

Speaker 1:

from the relationship. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, let's open that up a little bit more. So I want to put some more details, let's paint that picture a little bit more. So can you explain that a little bit more?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, which part?

Speaker 1:

Well, the part where you're saying is like well, we're talking about desires, and then when it's on the table, when the sex is on the table, the desires and the needs. Oh, when the desires and the needs are on the table, yeah because sex being on the table is another thing too.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's what I was like. What are we talking about? Yeah, absolutely yeah. So when the desires are there, are they able to communicate about it? Are they able to express it? I think, yeah, yeah, I think that's hard. I think that's what sometimes a lot of I'm not saying all men, I can't speak for all men but there's a lot of men that I do work with that and I think you. So let me just move this in a direction. We're going to get back to exactly what we're talking about. That nice guy is an attempt, right, and if I can do that, but unfortunately it's very manipulative. It's very in the mind. It's losing the connection. Like I say, four plays everything that happens outside the bedroom, so it's like that starts to take on the role. But it is very manipulative If I be this, if I be that, and sometimes it's like they don't want to ask for what they need. So the manipulative strategy is, if I'm this nice guy, I can get those needs met.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

So in the communication of the desire, no, I think it's very difficult for men and I know it's a place and again, all I have is me. So, yeah, can I have those? Can I have my needs? And again, our desires, we can have our needs. But I'm just saying the desire is to have that without the shaming component attached to it, without the stories attaching to it more of a presence, because, as as we've talked about that, that the, the shaming component, if it's in the negative connotation and the stories of it, then it's the fear, right. So then we've lost connection.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

At that point.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's a funny loop that that a man can cycle in, because what women want most above anything else, is presence. Yes, that's what we want, like that's what gets us off, right? Is that? Is that like that steadfast presence, like I'm not looking away? I'm looking right at it.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And as a man and I'm embodied at the same time I'm with you. I'm here in this moment because then that full feminine expression can come out.

Speaker 1:

There's the softening.

Speaker 2:

That's the softening and there's creativity there and there's flow and there's intrigue and there's openness and there's so many dynamics to that expression that that is what a woman wants. And you know, along those same lines, how you're saying. Like you know, a lot of men feel uncomfortable about bringing their needs or their sexual needs, their sexual desires, into the space. If a man is not fully inhabiting his sexuality, his sexual nature, and he's withholding some of that, the woman is not going to be as satisfied in bed. Because I mean again, like you said, I can only speak for me, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I can only speak for the women that I talk to. I can, you know, in most of my friends we have sexual conversations, and so it's not like I'm not necessarily talking about like the, the repressed woman. I'm not necessarily talking about like a woman that's really uncomfortable with sex, Cause she probably has a different set of desires, I would imagine.

Speaker 2:

But, um, we want all of you Like, we want like the full animal expression we want, like we want to be witness to that and that is actually what causes us to feel safe and surrendered. I mean, obviously, like in the context of safety and consent and all of that right, of course, in the context of safety and consent and all of that right, of course, but that full like when a man is fully embodied in, like the animal self and in a way where he's also connected to his heart and also connected to presence, like that's.

Speaker 1:

That's felt, that's hot, yeah, right, so then there's the safety, there's the flower, there's the softening.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And when it's not felt from the woman.

Speaker 1:

That's the closing. Yes, yeah, Right, it's like I can't move into that, or they're feeling the disconnect.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So when you say that, like when it's not felt by the woman, do you mean that, like, if a man is not feeling that openness of a woman, like, does he? Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 1:

A couple of different things. It could be looked at both ways, right. So for the man who's not available, not embodied, not holding that presence or the awareness or the yeah, just the rooted groundedness of this moment, the woman will feel that yeah. Right, and you're saying for the woman to open, like fully open, there is a. So this is where I understand it is as far as like there's a surrendering that is taking place in this dance, Right is as far as like there's a surrendering that is taking place in this dance, right?

Speaker 1:

So one is what you're referring to is why the way I look at it is if the man is too caught into a performance role, if we could just call it this. Sure yeah sure, a performance role. There's something in between that. There's something in between the connection. Now.

Speaker 2:

Yes, there's a block there.

Speaker 1:

There's a block there and why I say there's a surrendering. When there's that surrendering and the embodiment and we can, as men, dive into the presence and the awareness of this love energy or sexual energy moving between us, this fire energy, there has to be a surrendering of the sense of identity and ego in it. And when there's the surrendering to the ego of it, then there's the connection and then there's the opening. It's a full-on surrender from the woman.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Because there's something to move towards, there's something to gently lay her head into, and when there's not and I think that's where it gets confusing with men because again it can be very performance driven and on, you know, we have to get to somewhere, and or I have to get you somewhere, or I have to get somewhere, yeah Right, it's like that. That also disrupts too. So sometimes it's not about that part, it's more driven on their own and that also can cause this look inviting playfulness into it too. It's, you know, like. I don't want to be so rigid where it's like we have to, you know, have fun with it.

Speaker 1:

But I think in the I love what you're saying in the consensual understanding of that, yeah, look, if we're just going to out here and have a fun, like you know, in the middle of, because it's an exotic place and let's just live in the excitement of that, it's not like we're going to put on our best thing to try to make all these things happen, because that's not what we're inviting into the situation. We're inviting the playfulness of it, we're inviting the risk factor into it. We're writing, we're inviting these things that are, you know, fun and, I think, inviting into that as well. So understanding where does that take place is also. But in order for that, what I also think is important is is also for there is a needed for the men to be embodied into that experience as well.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely yeah. Yeah, I think that like um, it is, it's, it goes both ways. When you're talking about, like the performative stuff and the embodiment stuff, there is that same shadow for a woman, and again I don't know which one comes first, but I think when one side of the equation is being performative, the other side of the equation is performative as well because of those blocks, and then there's a lack of intimacy and it just doesn't feed that natural desire for a woman to want to show up to sex because, it was yeah, because now all of a sudden it's like well, this isn't a full circuitry of pleasure for me and

Speaker 2:

so that that is something that actually you know, that, like how you were talking about, like the nice guy or the performative or like the, I need it to look a certain way or this or that or whatever all of that feeds into actually a woman, kind of not wanting to show up for it as much because she wants the fullness of it Like she wants she, she wants to know all of like your, your needs and your wants and your desires, and like that full sexual energy and and the connection and the presence and you know all of that is way more important than.

Speaker 1:

The performance itself Than the performance.

Speaker 2:

Like that is way more important than, like you know, like she's not going to like call her girlfriend and be like, wow, I just had, like we just, you know, fucked for two minutes and I had a great orgasm and it was really fast. He made me come so fast.

Speaker 1:

Like.

Speaker 2:

I don't know any woman that's ever said that. But a woman might pick up a phone and call her friend and be like he was romantic and he was like present and he took his time and he really saw me. It was just so connected and it was so beautiful. Like we're driven by that, by beauty and not physical beauty necessarily. But there's something so divinely beautiful about that shared intimacy in its imperfection.

Speaker 1:

So this is beautiful. What do you think? Some tips maybe for guys to help them to get into that presence.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1:

I know we go there.

Speaker 2:

Gosh, the main one, like, as we've talked about, um, shadow work. Because you know, yeah, in order for a man to hold space for a woman for the range of where she may want to go, he has to have some emotionally or otherwise. That feels unsafe for the man because he hasn't maybe gone there himself or he doesn't know how to hold space for it. It dysregulates him. That's going to be the thing that disembodies him. That's going to be what makes him go up into his head. So it's an elusive answer, I think, because it's like, okay, shadow work, it's not an immediate thing that he can do in that moment, it's something that must be done.

Speaker 1:

It's the practice of it.

Speaker 2:

It's the practice of it. Yeah, and I guess along those same lines. I don't know, that's the answer I have actually. I'm going to stick with that.

Speaker 1:

No, it was a big question too, but I think there is some truth to that is like no, it was a big question too, but I think there is some truth to that. It's like you know, do start, start the work so you can get more into the understanding and shadows. You know that word can be talked about a lot Shadows it's elusive. Yeah, that's what I mean. Can you give more pointers into what would be a shadow, maybe in this department, for a man Like you know?

Speaker 1:

give a pointer to something that I mean the shadow.

Speaker 2:

It would be mother wounding Like that's a huge shadow. And so if his relationship to the feminine, which usually originates with relationship to mother, as like a very general kind of broad statement, it's never going to be fully healed, so that's not even the point. But if it hasn't even been looked at, if it hasn't been worked with, if it's completely in the dark, then he's going to have a very reactionary basis to a woman's emotions. And when there's this extreme reactionary basis to a woman's emotions, then she's going to feel unheard, she's going to feel unexpressed, she's going to become naggy.

Speaker 2:

All of these different come from it, right, Um, and a lot of that has to do with just him learning how to be with his own relationship to his to the feminine Cause, essentially that's what it comes down to Like. The felt sense of emotions is a very feminine experience and because of the, the boy wounding with the mother wound it's not necessarily like his quote-unquote his relationship with the mother, it's actually his internalized relationship with the feminine, correct. So he won't go there and that's I mean, that's sort of where it could begin.

Speaker 1:

No, I get it.

Speaker 2:

yeah, Because if a woman can't, I mean we women. We women like we are multitaskers and we blend everything together. So it's like if we're feeling unexpressed, unheard, whatever, whatever, whatever, like we can't speak, or we're feeling oppressed of whatever way good, right, wrong or otherwise then that's going to translate to the bedroom, like that's going to translate to sex.

Speaker 1:

That's going to translate to every part of our life yeah, yes, um, yeah, you're speaking my language with that, because it becomes internalized, we and we start to the word that I use and I pulled this from somebody too is this internal sex wars?

Speaker 1:

ah yeah, yeah, so it's the internal sex wars we have. So you can actually for men, we can, again, looking at it from the mother, we can hate the feminine with inside of us. So that's going to transmit into your everyday relationships with another woman because it can be a distorted lens. You're actually seeing from, you're seeing the woman from that part which is going to block connection. Um, as well, as men can actually hate even masculine parts of themselves and and I looked at that from um say there isn't even a mom. She can take on those roles, she has to play both and she can take on those roles.

Speaker 1:

Or there is the obviously the obvious, there's the wounding from the masculine. There's an absent father, an MIA, emotionally father. So all of these messagings, covert over direct, indirect messagings, start to relay into the parts of themselves where they start to hate parts of themselves. Yeah, and I think in the healing journey whatever that is and a lifelong journey that we're doing is the deeper understanding of individuating from that the psychological and emotional departure which we can talk about another time because it's a deeper grieving process of that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I think that's where the pain really starts to come through is because you're grieving that your childhood is over.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and nobody's coming for you and nobody's coming for you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and nobody's coming for you and nobody's coming for you. Yeah, and that's a very difficult place to sit Because embedded in all of us there's a child. Embedded in all of us there's a child that says please take care of me, I can't do this, please take care of me. And the coming to the deeper understanding of that is that I have to save myself, which means I have to navigate all of these parts. I have to save myself, which means I have to navigate all of these parts. I have to let go, I have to forgive and move. So I don't know, I got sidetracked on that, but because something you said really called because that's what this work is really about whether it is coming from the sexual shadows. I mean there's so many different shadows, you know, that are in full operation, and they're in full operation when you get exposed, where they become.

Speaker 2:

This hall of mirrors is always in relation Always, because most of our wounds come from, most of them are relational wounds.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And so patterns repeat on all levels, and so if that gets stuck in the neurology way back when which it does, you know it's how we work then, yeah, it's going to be projected in the realm of sex, in the realm of relationships, and I think that's probably the main thing.

Speaker 2:

Just outside of shadow work is like if you're having difficulty expressing your sexual needs, or you're not sure about some of your sexual desires, or you're having insecurities about some of the things that men have, insecurities about which I am not privy to because I don't you know, I don't know really. Um, to actually view that from the point of like, wow, what a gift, this is so useful, this is so great, because I'm now having intimacy with the part of myself that is a reflection from the past and this is an opportunity for me to bring more love and more presence into myself, into the world, into my purpose, into my relationship, into the bedroom, and more presence into myself into the world, into my purpose, into my relationship, into the bedroom, everywhere, like, without seeing it manifested relationally or sexually or wherever. You're just not gonna see it.

Speaker 1:

It's just gonna live there. Yeah, and it will express its way and it usually comes out sideways.

Speaker 2:

Usually, and it's usually painful and it's like a bitch slap.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

And then you're like fuck, I guess I got to look at this.

Speaker 1:

I mean, that's the hopes. That's the hopes, right? Is that you will start to look at you, whoever the yous are, but that will just cause enough light to peer in, just so you can see the darkness.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. That's such a good way of putting it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's just enough light. And I think what most people do and especially like in a sexual sense, because there's shame around it and we have a tendency to just we turn a blind eye to shame because that's our animal biology. But that's the purpose of it is that there is just enough light and if we're not relating to it that way, we're missing the point and instead what most people do is this sexual shame comes up or these insecurities come up and as an avoidance tactic we then try to manipulate outcomes in the bedroom to band-aid that wound.

Speaker 2:

Or we try to come up with grandiose masks and identities to band-aid that wound which just perpetuates the story. And universe will bitch, slap you harder the next cycle.

Speaker 1:

Until you finally wake up, until you try and stop and look at it.

Speaker 2:

Exactly yeah.

Speaker 1:

It would just keep going. There's a lot of layers in there and I just came out with an episode a couple weeks ago and it talks about the sex addiction with men as the manifestation for the mortal goddess and the one that won't leave, and it's the mother that could be emotionally distanced or just distanced, and the father that never initiated us.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

So then it's a constant and I see this a lot because I do come from, obviously, the trauma and addiction world, um, where men will, and I'm, and I'm one of those men where and I talked about this in episode, I'm not gonna do the whole episode, but we get this kind of compulsive behavior situated. It could be substances to manifest in another way, where it's sex, love, codependency. So it's the same mechanisms just moving you because the story and the origin is the same, right? So the work for all the men listening is to start the journey, start looking at what's there, whatever access point, whatever disruption is happening, look there and watch it just, and then there goes there, and then that goes there, and then that goes there and the whole web appears and you see it, everything is everything.

Speaker 2:

Everything is everything, and looking at it from the sexual realm, I think that, like there's a lot of everything there, because, that's the creative energy, that's the root and it's also, like you know, it's the root of desire, and I do really believe that desire is what fuels consciousness. If we have a desire to want something, whether it be sexually or otherwise, there inherently is expansion. In that there inherently is. I must evolve in order to get to that place. I must change who I am, because it's not about what you do to get there, it's about who you become in that process. And I mean again, I'm going into a little bit like hypnotherapy lens here- for a minute.

Speaker 2:

But like what you know, if you're a man, you're listening and it's like, well, okay, maybe you have this sexual shadow starting to imagine and get their creative faculties on board. Of like if you were sexually so grounded, you knew who. You knew who you were like. You are in your body and in your sense of self and you're sexually satisfied in a way that feels good for self and others right, because there's always that component to it as well. And you wake up in the morning and you feel driven and you know your testosterone levels are just like fucking on point. And you wake up because you have purpose in the world and you are this giving presence that causes you to feel more like a man than you ever have before, in a way that you've never even imagined it.

Speaker 2:

Who is that version of you? And it's not. What do I need to do to get there now? That's reactionary behavior, but it's imagining coming up with that third option of who is that? How do you walk? How do you talk? Who's in your life, who's no longer in your life?

Speaker 1:

What are your?

Speaker 2:

boundaries like what are you saying yes to? What are you saying no to? What are you showing up for? What are you no longer showing up for? What's your eye contact like? What's your presence like? What's your self-talk like? What's your morning routine like? What's your bodily routine like when you look at yourself in the mirror? In that vision, what the fuck are you saying to yourself about yourself? That you know to be true? And you have to build out that neural network first, Otherwise your neurology will mark it as unsafe as you approach that.

Speaker 1:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

So then you go, taking it back into the sexual realm. So it's like, without that step, you just have this little desire. Oh, I just, you know, I want to be more sexually satisfied. You're not taking it into, like, the big realm of like, who are you becoming as a man? You're going to go and you're going to get to your partner and you're going to muster all this courage to speak something into the space or to tackle something in the sexual realm. But if it's not fueled by a bigger purpose of desire, it's going to fall flat because there's no safety net for your neurology. You're going to step into that. There's no known outcome there and the neurology is going to wave a red flag and be like absolutely not. Let's quote unquote self-sabotage.

Speaker 2:

But, we both know self-sabotage is not even a thing. It's self-love in thwarted ways. Whoa and that, yeah, that.

Speaker 1:

And that how do men get in contact with you? What do you have working with men so you can help guide them into that?

Speaker 2:

Into that, into that. So I have a free men's masterclass that we can link wherever this is. It's on my Instagram, it's pretty much everywhere and that is the initiation into this work. I share with you my three-step process of essentially like let's reimagine, there's a mini hypnosis and then how to do the shadow work and specifically how to do the shadow work for men, because women like to be very like when we do our shadow work, we like to be very feeling and this and you know it's just it's a different thing, I think for a man it's important Like you go in, you do the shadow work and you have the outcome.

Speaker 2:

So there's like a process to it that I think, or at least that I have found, works really well for a man. So you can definitely watch that. You will experience change. You know for any man that watches that, they will experience change in that 40 minutes. If you want to take it to the next level, I have my men's course, mastery for Men, and then I also have Attraction Mastery, which is like just all the polarity secrets, it's all the sex stuff. Basically, it's all the sex stuff in the bedroom, out of the bedroom for play, like all that kind of stuff and that's in a course that one's only $47.

Speaker 1:

Beautiful and I'll have all that linked in the show notes here so you can get in contact with Katie and really check all that stuff out, because that was that was well put.

Speaker 2:

Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, really good work there. So anything else you want to say, because I don't even know where to go from that. Like I said, that was just really well said there.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, no, I mean, I think that kind of wraps it. Maybe we'll do another episode on Saturday.

Speaker 1:

I think we're going to have to do a couple different episodes because there was so many little nuggets in everything here, that is, I could pull out and be like that could be a little episode in itself, anyway, well, I I just want to thank everybody for coming on again. This is man and caved, my name is shane and we need to come out of hiding.