Programming Lions

Ep.63 Who’s Raising Who w/ Dr Larry Waldman

• Matt Morstad • Episode 63

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What are the current trends in parenting these days? Dr. Larry Waldman, a clinical psychologist with half a century of experience, joins Programming Lions to talk how parenting has changed over the decades. Hear his advice on how to help relationships thrive in our ever changing world.


Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LarryWaldmanPhD/

Website: https://topphoenixpsychologist.com


TIMELINE

00:00 Intro

03:04 Type of phycology

05:31 Seeking therapy

07:26 Common challenges

10:36 Outsourcing parenting

13:41 Trends in discipline

20:36 Helicopter parents

21:57 Religion & LGBT

26:02 Divorce

29:15 Books by need

31:54 Closing advice

Welcome to the Programming Lions podcast. Today, we have the pleasure of hosting Dr. Larry Waldman. He is a clinical psychologist with over 50 years in the field. He is also a speaker, a consultant, and an author of seven books. Today, we're going to talk about relationships, kids, parenting, and we're going to talk about trends over the many decades that he's seen, and he has seen a lot. So get ready. Let's go. Yeah.

DrW - Dad:

Dr. Waldman, welcome to the Programming Alliance podcast. We are so excited to have you on and your wealth of experience, decades of experience in the field of psychology and bringing that to us and our audience today. We've got a number of questions lined up around relationships, kids, etc. But before we get into that, could you give us just a quick rundown in your own words about yourself, your expertise and background?

DrW - Larry:

Sure, again, thanks for allowing me this opportunity. Yes, I was a clinical forensic psychologist for over 45 years in Phoenix, Arizona. I've retired from active practice, six, seven years ago now. I, so I don't see patients or clients any, any longer. I still do a little teaching coaching writing, speaking, podcast, guesting my practice was quite varied. I did a lot of non traditional kinds of things other than just sitting across from a patient and providing psychotherapy. I did plenty of that. But in the last 15, 20 years of my practice, I spent much more time doing what I call forensic work, working in the legal arena, which would be in the family law area, personal injury, med medal practice, and Things, things like that. So, I still try to keep fairly busy. I might also add in May, at age 77, I completed a two year program to become certified as a yoga instructor.

DrW - Dad:

Okay. Well, that's very cool. So you're, yeah, you're completing the mind body experience there. It sounds

DrW - Larry:

Ex exactly. That's, you got it. Excellent.

DrW - Dad:

I love it. All right. Well, that's very cool. Okay. Well, boys, we we did a little bit of research into you as well. And. Yeah, a very decorated career, and you've got, I think, seven books that you've also published. Most of our questions will probably revolve around relationships and kids, so let's get started, boys. So our first question is going to be, so, in the field of physicology, What are the main methods, do you think, that are most effective?

DrW - Larry:

That's an interesting question. It's it's a good one. There are essentially four different perspectives, if you will, or points of view in in our field. And I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking about that all the way through. Of course, I could but just to list them very quickly, there is the biological view, which is pretty much the realm of the psychiatrist. There's the analytic view, or psychoanalysis, which of course was started by Freud. There's the cognitive view. Which is very popular today, which has to do with how it is we think, which determines then how we feel, and ultimately how we act, and then finally there's the behavioral view. So there's four different perspectives, and there's an old saying in this business that therapists tend to provide. the type of psychotherapy that fits their own personality. So, many people don't realize this when they enter therapy, that what, what kind of therapy they're going to get many times is pretty much what the therapist is most comfortable with. Ideally, of course, what we try to do is to match the kind of therapy with the patient, with the client. So someone who's very well trained in all four of these areas that I just mentioned would hopefully pick the one that's best. Now, when it comes to parenting, for instance, teaching parents or helping parents manage their, their kids behavior, I'm very much a fan of the behavioral perspective. That is being very conscious or being very aware of what the child is learning, and that's what I. basically teach parents to, to do?

DrW - Dad:

If, if one is seeking therapy, how do they go about making sure they find the right avenue and they vet to make sure that they're actually getting proper help? I suspect that there's a lot of therapy out there that has mixed results with people, but how does one know that they're getting the right amount of help when they go and seek help?

DrW - Larry:

Well, that's a great question. It is a bit of a problem. I, but I think the best thing to do is to get a, is to get a good referral from someone that, that trust. For example, your general practitioner, your GP, typically he or she has had experience in referring patients, You know, to some therapist and so forth with decent results so you could be pretty reliant on that kind of referral possibly asking some of your friends or relatives if they've had a good experience with a therapist and so on. Also many state associations like, Arizona, where we're both from here has the Arizona Psychological Association and they have a referral service. you can call in and speak to somebody with association, and they can refer someone who would be appropriate for you. someone skilled in that area, in living, not living, but working in that area. So you're not having to drive totally across town and things like that. So those are, I think, the best ways to go about

DrW - Dad:

So you've been in psychology for 52 years. And, wow what are some of the most common challenges you see in relationships and children? What are some of the most common challenges you

DrW - Larry:

Well, I spent lots of time in two. areas as far as psychotherapy is concerned. And that is, of course, parenting, helping parents learn to, you know, manage their child's behavior. Anyone can become a parent. basically. It's always been ironic for me that, you know, to, to, to drive a car, for instance, you got to take a test, you've got to read a manual, and so on, but to raise a human being, you know, you just, Become one. and truth be told the vast majority of parents are pretty much doing this most important thing of raising a, you know, a healthy human being essentially by the seat of their pants. Every day is a new day. There's no consistency. And so forth. And so what I try to do is to teach parents, if you will, the science of, of parenting. There's lots of research on this topic and so on. I have actually three books that, that relate to it. Who's Raising Whom, Coping With Your Adolescent, and Love Your Child More Than You Hate Your Ex are, are all related. Yes, right. Are all related, you know, to, to parenting. In addition to that, you know, besides, of course, this very important job of, of, like, raising a human being which is, like I said, one of the most important things, I think, Most adults are going to do is the is, of course, having a a solid relationship with somebody else

DrW - Dad:

hmm.

DrW - Larry:

again. Once again, people are just, feeling their way. There are hundreds of books out there today written for couples to help them learn, how to promote and facilitate their relationship. But again, most couples you know, don't, again, it's just by the, the seat of their pants, if you will. So, to me, the, the two most important issues that I'd like to see, you know, further developed is people getting much more information on, on parenting parenting. And of course developing more knowledge about how to have a successful relationship.

DrW - Dad:

Yeah, it seems both are pretty essential. You've got to have a good, strong relationship and able to be, I suppose, aligned in terms of how you want to raise your kids. A good. into another question that I had related to this, which was, kids are so important to, you know, our future, our happiness, everything. And it seems more and more I'm seeing parents outsource parenting, whether it's nannies or two parents are working very busily in their lives because they've got to keep up with all of the needs to have a certain lifestyle. But essentially, I see more and more outsourcing of parenting. And I can't help but wonder what that's going to do in terms of trends for kids their value system gets structured. But what's your observation in this business for decades?

DrW - Larry:

Yes, I, I agree with that. I mean, clearly is, is happening a lot. I mean, obviously today many moms are working and so on. It's financially necessary and so on. Unlike. in my generation, when I was raised, I mean, it, it, it was very common, you know, mommy stayed home, so yes, it, it, it is different. There's no question. And that, that kids many times are with, sitters or they're in after day school that, that, that kind of thing. So, that, what that means then is that the time that the parents do have with their kids is, is even more important. The question I've been asked for, well, better than a half century is, you know, what is the most important thing we parents can give our kids? For me, the answer is our time,

DrW - Dad:

Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

It's quality time, because what let's face it. What are kids learning? Who's their primary instructor or instructors? Who's their teacher? Basically.

DrW - Dad:

Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

and their dad

DrW - Dad:

Right.

DrW - Larry:

and so forth. They don't know, you know, kids, you know, are born, as I say, naked and naive.

DrW - Dad:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

They don't know what's right or wrong. good or bad and so on. And so what they're going to learn, particularly during that, that first half decade, is extremely important. And yet, again, many parents just leave it to chance.

DrW - Dad:

I left corporate world to do this with the kids. So we would spend more quality time together. Right, boys. And it's been, it's been fun. It's been fun. We're getting to know each other a lot better. We're getting to talk to cool people through our podcasts like you and and all of that. So it's really been a great experience. So over Several decades of your direct work with people and kids are you seeing any? Problematic trends in them You

DrW - Larry:

Great question and well stated by the way. Yeah, I have as a matter of fact. Early in my career, I had to often caution parents about the excessive use of paddling,

DrW - Dad:

Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

So back in the 70s, it was common. for parents to have like a big paddle, almost like a, a tennis racket, if you will, small one, and if the kids acted out, they'd get whacked on the behind with it.

DrW - Dad:

Wow, what do you guys think about that? No, don't do that. That's a terrible idea.

DrW - Larry:

Well, that's what was going on. And by the way, That was also happening in school.

DrW - Dad:

Mm. Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

principals, back in the 70s, if a child was sent to the principal, the principal would have a paddle hanging in his office, one of the consequences for misbehavior in school would be for the kid to bend down, and for the principal to give, you know, one or two whacks You know, on the rear end for the Miss D. That's what was being done then. Now, obviously, using violence to raise kids is certainly not a good idea.

DrW - Dad:

Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

So back early in my career, trying to teach parents, that's not a way to raise your kids.

DrW - Dad:

Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

You know, out of fear and out of violence.

DrW - Dad:

All stick, no carrot.

DrW - Larry:

Right. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

DrW - Dad:

you get a lot of blowback from others in your field for trying to let's say, yeah, persuade more, more carrot, less stick, or, or less of these, like, paddling behaviors?

DrW - Larry:

At the time, sure. Cause what's the spare the rod, spoil the child. Oh,

DrW - Dad:

Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

that, you know, I used to hear that all the time. back a half century ago. So clearly that was not a, not a good thing. And, and no question about that. Because basically, if you're going to use, violence as a physical punishment, corporal punishment, as your primary tool, Then essentially what you're teaching the kid is that, you only have to behave, you know, when somebody with a stick is around,

DrW - Dad:

Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

Interestingly, there's been many, many studies done, of people in prison, and, and it's no surprise to me that the majority of them, that as children, they were punished corporately,

DrW - Dad:

Physically. Mm. Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

so so much for how effective that is

DrW - Dad:

Yeah. Wow. Mm

DrW - Larry:

today. We've gone full circle.

DrW - Dad:

Mm

DrW - Larry:

In fact, what I'm seeing today now is that, yeah, there's certainly very much less paddling or physical stuff going on, which is a good thing. But what is happening to my chagrin is that parents are not, are not dealing with inappropriate behavior

DrW - Dad:

Mhmm.

DrW - Larry:

at all.

DrW - Dad:

Yes.

DrW - Larry:

They're not consequenting the inappropriate behavior.

DrW - Dad:

These are essentially habit forming behavioral loops, right? Where you, you get either positive or negative reinforcement around certain behaviors. And I'm not a habit expert, but like seems pretty obvious. Yes, that that would be the right path to take, but so many parents aren't doing that. It's wild.

DrW - Larry:

Exactly. Like I said, it's full circle. We've gone from paddling to basically, ignoring, significant inappropriate behavior

DrW - Dad:

Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

and and we can't, you know, kids need to learn. I mean, obviously, we want to we want to catch them being good when they're when they're doing something appropriate and so forth. We want to reinforce that to let them know what they're doing. Be specific about what you're reinforcing and so on to obviously reward kids for behaving well, but by the same token, there needs to be a consequence for significant inappropriate behavior, like being violent to another child. Like breaking a hard and fast rule, for instance,

DrW - Dad:

Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

when the child strictly disobeys a rule purposely, you know, there needs to be a consequence.

DrW - Dad:

hmm.

DrW - Larry:

Again, not paddling, no maybe some time in their room, maybe a loss of a privilege, something like

DrW - Dad:

Sanctions. I call it sanctions in our house. Yep, that's what they do. Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

That, well, all right, yeah.

DrW - Dad:

fine. No screens for a week. I guess that's one of the benefits of social media, iPads gaming. They, they work as great tools for reinforcing good behaviors, I guess, so. Mm hmm. Yeah. Exactly.

DrW - Larry:

that's what you choose. Yeah, sure. By the way, you mentioned a week, if I don't mind, if you don't mind me commenting. In my books, I make it very clear that punishments should be short and sweet. Punishments typically, depending on the age, of course on the kid. Your kid's age and so forth, probably 24 hours.

DrW - Dad:

Yeah. Wow. So it gets the, it gets the point across. It reinforces the negative or positive behavior. And Yeah, but if time goes on too long, everybody forgets. That's an interesting point. When my kids, let's say they do something behaviorally in public, I will usually take you aside. I don't want to make a scene. I don't want to embarrass them in front of other people. So I take them aside. explain why I'm upset and maybe take them home or take them out of the public space or whatever. Is that what you recommend is a good policy to have in terms of, how to discipline your kids publicly versus privately?

DrW - Larry:

Yeah. Of course you want to keep your sanity. If you're ranting and raving and screaming and yelling, all the kid is sensing is your hysteria. When I used to lower my voice something we need to talk about. They knew, oh, you know, some

DrW - Dad:

Dun, dun, dun.

DrW - Larry:

they were listening to it. When you're screaming and so on, it just goes

DrW - Dad:

So there's another related trend I want to ask you about, which is I don't know if I call it helicopter parenting I notice that parents are trying to solve issues for their kids in school versus maybe letting their kids solve their own problems in school. At what point should parents be stepping in and trying to solve these things for their children?

DrW - Larry:

It's pretty self evident that yes, you know, you, you want the kids to learn how to, resolve their own issues. Now you can give them some advice, of course, our goal, of course, is to raise, you know, independent, you know, responsible young adults. Well, how are they going to get to learn that

DrW - Dad:

hmm. Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

if we're solving all their problems for them?

DrW - Dad:

Mm

DrW - Larry:

Many times my kids would bring an issue to me and I'd say, so, you know, we talk about a little bit and I'd say, so, You know, what are your options? You know, what do you think you can do about that? And so on. And so we would kick around, you know, various ideas. But ultimately, it was, it was up to them. Because that's what becoming an adult is all about.

DrW - Dad:

hmm. Mm hmm. Agreed. Wow. This one, this one Dr. Waldman might be a little bit controversial. A couple of trends in society that, I would like to get your thoughts on There's there's two of them. One is a decrease in Religious community yet, we're also seeing a dramatic increase in lgbt or gender ideology with youth and families You You've been around these topics for decades, and do you have any thoughts on this? I think this is, a topic our audience would be interested to hear, you know, professionals input about.

DrW - Larry:

With respect to the first one I try to really separate theology from psychotherapy.

DrW - Dad:

Mm

DrW - Larry:

Um, obviously we, we have our, we have different perspectives. I think it's up to the parents. Again, to, set the stage.

DrW - Dad:

Mm hmm.

DrW - Larry:

Kids are going to model us.

DrW - Dad:

Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

There's no question about that. Research shows that the vast majority of, of kids become adults, and, and they vote the same way their parents do. We have a, a lot of of influence. And, and the same thing goes, you know, As far as as religion is concerned, you know, if it's important to the parents, you know, then it should be important to to to the kids

DrW - Dad:

basically share a value system that passes on.

DrW - Larry:

exactly. But on the other hand, you know, I've had lots of cases where. People come to me after, going to a, a religiously oriented therapist frankly, I, I might get in trouble by saying this, but I'm going to say it anyhow. You know, going to a priest for marital counseling issues is probably not a great idea. They can give you some insights and so forth, but let's face it, they're not fully versed in the whole process and so on. And many times their ideas are a little outdated. So, enough of that. The, the issue about this gender dysmorphia is,

DrW - Dad:

Mm-Hmm.

DrW - Larry:

yeah, it's really interesting. I read, I, I've read a little bit about that. In fact an article I saw not too long ago is, is that there's an 800 percent increase in this population. current generation of this problem than there was ever before.

DrW - Dad:

right.

DrW - Larry:

Now, to some degree, of course, some of this is due to the fact that, you know, there was this problem earlier, but in previous generations, you know, coming out,

DrW - Dad:

wasn't as accepted. Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

not at all. Okay. So you stayed in the closet. Because, you could be in danger,

DrW - Dad:

Sure.

DrW - Larry:

by announcing, you know, what you are. That's part of the issue. And that is, yeah, there, there was this before. But we didn't, you know, we didn't see it as much or allow it as much.

DrW - Dad:

Mm-Hmm.

DrW - Larry:

time I, I do believe it's becoming just a little more fashionable.

DrW - Dad:

Yeah. Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

And, and for some kids, Or, you know, early teens, typically, when this starts up it's like, you know, I'm looking for more attention

DrW - Dad:

Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

and so

DrW - Dad:

Perhaps there's some linkage to what we talked about earlier with parents outsourcing parenting in a lot of ways and not being around as much and both parents, unfortunately, having to work in many cases. And then, yeah, maybe maybe there's a trend of sort of attention seeking and this

DrW - Larry:

It certainly gets their attention, no question there, yes, right.

DrW - Dad:

Well, I appreciate your thoughts on that. And Max, you had another fun question, right? Yeah. Off the serious one to a more fun question. Let's go. So, what's the most, or, what's the most strangest person you've ever helped?

DrW - Larry:

Hmm.

DrW - Dad:

You've probably seen a lot of really strange stuff, right?

DrW - Larry:

Well, yes and no. Remember I was in private practice, so, typically, strange people, I don't know what you mean by that, but I'm thinking in terms of psych, psychotic people and so on. Typically psychotic people don't go to private practitioners,

DrW - Dad:

Noted.

DrW - Larry:

they may end up in a, in a community mental health center or something like, and so on. But so a lot of the folks that I saw. It depended on the situation. I, you know, there, there was a, there's a, there's another old expression that fits that was, that was told to me a long time ago, particularly as I got into the legal arena. And, and, and what this attorney said was criminal attorneys. See bad people at their best divorce attorneys see good people at their worst. And I used to see some pretty angry deceitful hurt,

DrW - Dad:

Yeah. Vindictive.

DrW - Larry:

in, in the in the divorce arena. I mean, it got, it got. sometimes That's the fact why I wrote that, that one of my later books, you know, Love Your Child More Than You Hate Your Ex, because kids caught in a And an acrimonious divorce really pay a large a large debt,

DrW - Dad:

Yeah. Yeah. It's really sad. That's a trend I would love to see start reversing back the other way.

DrW - Larry:

Running at close to 50%, 45 to 50% most of those divorces occur in the first five years. So if you can get past the five year mark, you've got a better chance. Then you hit the empty nest stage, and that's another period that, that threatens some, many relationships and so

DrW - Dad:

Yeah. Yeah.

DrW - Larry:

I think it's a national tragedy travesty I mean, the United States has the highest divorce rate in the world.

DrW - Dad:

Yeah. Jeez. You've mentioned a lot of your books in this talk. whole podcast thing. You have seven of them. Which one do you recommend the most for our audience? That's

DrW - Larry:

depends on, on the situation. And thank you for bringing them up. My, my first book and which is. My actually the best selling one is entitled who's raising whom.

DrW - Dad:

a great title, by the way.

DrW - Larry:

right. And thank you. Which of course is, is my basic parenting book. My second one is coping with your adolescent. Now, there's an interesting difference there, I, in the first book, I talk about helping parents, train their kids. In the second one, we, we go from training to coping, with your teenager. My third book is How Come I Love Him But Can't Live With Him. That's my marriage manual. My the fourth book I'm quite fond of also. It's entitled Too Busy Earning a Living to Make Your Fortune. And what I do there is, is talk about why people get stuck in their ruts, if you will. The next one is the graduate course you never had. That, that is for mental health professionals. But truthfully, it really applies to any service oriented business. It teaches how to develop, manage, and market a practice. The other, another one is overcoming your negotiophobia. That's, that, I co wrote that with a friend of mine who's a business analyst. And we talk about negotiating your way through life because So much of life is negotiation,

DrW - Dad:

huge. It's a huge aspect of life.

DrW - Larry:

you know, parenting's negotiation, marriage is negotiation, work, you know, you're, relating with your boss is negotiating, relating with your co workers, and so on, etc., etc., etc. So, that, that book, and then of course the book I have referenced now twice Love Your Child More Than You Hate Your Ex, and the The book that actually is out just now, as a matter of fact, is entitled Silver Sex,

DrW - Dad:

Okay.

DrW - Larry:

Insights into Senior Sexuality.

DrW - Dad:

Oh Wow, okay. Okay. Well, we got a little something for everybody here. It sounds like so for a parent for me for you know, new parent new parents parents of adolescents people struggling maybe in their relationships all the way up to silver Yeah, why not so That's great. We'll definitely drop links into the description of the podcast for anybody that wants to check that out. These sounds like some great resources. And then also we'll have Dr. Waldman's Facebook page in there. So you can go there and engage and ask questions as well. As we conclude the podcast, do you have any final words of advice for our audience? Maybe around relationship and kids that you'd like to leave us with?

DrW - Larry:

educated. There's plenty of material out there. I mean, obviously, I, I've made a career. Of, of providing that information, but there are others and so on. Raising a human being and having a lifetime relationship are the two most important things so we need to pay more attention to it.

DrW - Dad:

Okay. Good advice. Good advice. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Your expertise, I think, will resonate greatly with our audience, and we'll drop all of these great resources in there, and we hope that this can really help some people. So, thanks so much for coming on and spending time with us.

DrW - Larry:

Well, thank you. I, I enjoyed it. This is the first time I've been interviewed by two sharp youngsters here. And I thank you for the opportunity.

DrW - Dad:

Thank you for coming on. Thanks for coming on.

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