Ep.84 Dialectics & Detention: Talk with Teenage Anarchist Communist w/ Pablo Valenzuela

In this episode of the Programming Lions podcast, we host Pablo Valenzuela, a 17-year-old senior in high school, to discuss his unique views on anarchism and communism. Pablo delves into the core concepts of Marxism, communism, and anarchism, providing detailed explanations and defending his positions. The discussion covers a range of topics from historical analysis, successful and failed experiments in communism, the role of government, and the practicality of communist ideologies in today’s world. Join us for an extensive and thought-provoking conversation that challenges common perceptions and explores alternative views on governance and society.

Links:

IG: @pablooninsta102

TIMELINE

00:00 Intro

01:47 Meet Pablo: The Young Anarcho-Communist

03:39 Diving into Marxism, Communism, and Anarchism

06:58 Common Critiques of Communism

10:03 Anarchism Explained

12:34 Historical Context and Misconceptions

20:26 Communism vs. Capitalism

31:30 Understanding Private Property in Communism

35:11 Modern Applications and Challenges

48:20 Homelessness and Housing Under Communism

55:21 The Drive for Wealth and Innovation

55:58 Debating AI and Human Dignity

56:38 The Coffee Shop Dilemma

57:33 Marx's Petite Bourgeoisie

58:59 Surplus Food and Capitalist Incentives

01:00:25 Labor, Purpose, and Human Nature

01:01:34 Alienation from Labor

01:10:30 Communism vs. Capitalism

01:19:00 The Role of Class Consciousness

01:38:32 Revolution and Mutual Aid

01:42:30 Understanding Class Struggle

01:42:52 Role of Education and Mutual Aid

01:43:18 Anarcho-Nihilism and Revolution

01:44:02 Transitionary War and Wealth Redistribution

01:45:00 Real World Changes and Healthcare Policy

01:46:13 Moral Imperatives and Self-Defense

01:47:43 Debating the Impact of Billionaires

01:52:43 Communism vs. Individualism

01:53:45 Labor and Exploitation

02:00:13 Cultural and Systemic Issues

02:02:31 Communism and Personal Experience

02:09:58 Government Spending and Military Budget

02:24:09 Philosophical Perspectives on Wealth

02:31:23 Debating Socialism vs. One World Order

02:31:49 Marx's Vision of Global Socialism

02:32:35 Critique of State Capitalist Revolutions

02:33:44 Communist Elements in Modern Systems

02:34:37 Misconceptions About Communism

02:36:11 Common Ground

02:37:45 The Importance of Diverse Sources

02:40:46 Challenges in Academia and Peer Review

02:44:26 Debating Gender Ideology

02:47:54 The Role of Wokeness and Queer Liberation

02:51:50 Identity Politics and Class Consciousness

03:00:59 Historical Analysis of Communism

03:16:24 Encouragement to Research and Understand

03:19:06 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Programming Lions podcast. Today we have a unique episode, for sure, the most unique that we have ever recorded, and definitely the longest Pablo joins us. A young man, very sharp, very well read, articulate, and he had reached out. Saying he had some unique views, particularly on anarchism and communism, and he thought it would be valuable for our audience to share those. And I met with him in advance and I was just impressed with his demeanor and his calmness and his openness to questions and pressure testing some of these ideas. And so we decided to have him on, now this is not a light topic and not one you can cover in 20 minutes. And so we got. Going and it just kind of kept rolling. This episode may not be for everyone. It's fairly long, but if you are interested in understanding how an anarchist and a communist think, what are some of these ideas and pressure testing a lot of these ideas. The second half of this interview, we really go into depth in pressure testing scenarios, issues on both the. Ideologies as well as like real world applications. That part is where for me, it got really fun and interesting. However, in the beginning we kinda lay out the ideas and the frameworks and all of that take a look at the timeline if you wanna pop into different areas within the conversation. This was a marathon. In fact, the boys cashed out about halfway through it because it did get pretty detailed and pretty advanced but Pablo is a senior in high school and he's 17 years old, and you'll find that he has studied this quite a bit. So without further ado, let's get into it.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:47

Pablo, welcome to the programming Alliance podcast. We're excited to have you on just a little bit of backstory on you. You reached out to us over social media in good faith and very politely. And you said, Hey, I've got some different views. I'd love to come on and share some of those views. With you and your audience to give you like a little bit more exposure and context of some other ideas that are out there and we're open to other ideas, especially if they're in good faith and polite and so we're excited to talk about some complex governance topics today But before we get into all that, how about you give us a little bit of background, you know about yourself

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:21

yeah. So hello. My name is Pablo Valenzuela. I'm a senior and I do debate specifically Lincoln Douglas. I'm politically, I'm an anarchist as well as a communist. More often I go under the label anarcho communist. I'm read up on Marx and a lot of anarchist theory and yeah, and I just come to introduce you guys and discuss that and see your guys's understanding.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:46

Okay Well, I think it's fair to say that our understanding of communism and anarchism is fairly limited. We've done some, some reading and research. And so part of what we want to do is learn from you today and maybe pressure test some of the common critiques that those ideas get. And we can bring that to our audience and go from there. So this is, and just for the audience's sake, like this was not intended as a debate. You're a debater, so you'd probably dust us anyway. But this is really intended for us to learn and, like I said, pressure test some of the common critiques that these ideas hear. And, yeah, see what we take away from it.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:23

Disclaimer, my anarchist views are not may not align with the entire body of other anarchist views, or other communist views. Communism and anarchists are a broad term and different ideas apply. However, I'm just educating on the my beliefs on anarchism and communism, and my understanding So first, three terms that I want to ask you guys about. What do you guys think Marxism, communism and anarchism are, you know, you can go list by list by whichever one you want. So what are your guys's understanding of those topics?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:53

Oh. Well, I'm pretty I don't I know a little bit more about communism, but I'm pretty sure communism and Marxism are like almost the same thing. And I mean like, where everybody gets like the same.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 4:07

Okay, you believe that communism is where everyone gets the same, right? That's your understanding? Okay do you, do you guys know what anarchism is?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 4:15

Not really. Not really,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 4:16

Okay, so, first off, I want to kind of just start off on communism and Marxism. So, Marxism is specifically the philosophy and a method of analysis specifically, that Marxist Leninist use, which refers to dialectal materialism, although Marxism refers to the entirety of the body of philosophy that Marx and Engels as well. And is sometimes grouped up with Leninism, which is also the philosophy that he's written when people, when communists refer to Marxism, they're referring to the system of analysis referred to as dialectal materialism and dialectal historics, right, where they analyze How material conditions shape history. Right? And how, how these things impact. So I know that, I know that, that sounds

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 5:03

Those are some big words. Yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 5:04

are some big words. So,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 5:06

for the record, like I'm more studied up on this than the boys, obviously, but I have not read in entirety any of Mark's works, if you were to suggest somebody read one of Mark's works, where would you have them start?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 5:21

yeah, so the foundational work that Marx actually has is actually something that people get really confused is that they believe that the communist manifesto is, is one of Marxist, is one of Marxist foundational work

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 5:34

that's the one that most people are familiar, or have heard

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 5:37

really, when really what the Communist Manifesto was, was a pamphlet to get other communists riled up and to explain and, and you know, introduce the cause. However, the most foundational Marx work Marx work that we analyze is Das Kapital, which is the, which is an economic paper as well as as well as a political paper, but sorry, political text, which analyzes capitalism and an interaction. Yeah, so, just before, just before I get into that I'm going to go more in depth into communism and anarchism, but just so you know, dialectal materialism in, in, in really simple words, even though it's a very complex way of looking at it. And you know, something that you eat as a, as someone who's understanding communism, don't really have to like look into at the very beginning of your journey of understanding it, but something that is a little more complex, but basically in simple words, it's a way of analyzing how historical events and. Material conditions. So the conditions that people live under and and certain things impact and influence politics and society, you know, and and there's different branches of that theory that go into that. But yeah, also on top of that, I wanted to ask you guys so So is there anything else you guys know about communism other than it's where everybody gets the same thing?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 6:58

I'm pretty sure a lot of, I'm pretty sure most countries have, or most countries in like Asia have tried it and they failed and then like I think the only current communist countries are like North Korea and like kind of China. Mm hmm. The other thing, historically it's fairly, like, well known that communism is responsible for more deaths than any other governance system that's been tried or attempted. That's something I think of with communism.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 7:31

well, see, this is a, this is a very common narrative and critique that actually goes into communism. However, a lot of there's the, the, one of the reasons that historics in terms of, of communism is. very hard to dive into is because even Western historians or academic bodies highlight and have a lot of intrinsic biases in terms of interpreting this these things. This is actually one of the things that I began looking into as I began to understand communism and how it interacts. My parents personally grew up in a country that. is, is run by a communist party from Cuba. So I really began to, so in my journey, you know, when I was beginning to understand communism, I began to look at what my parents were saying, and then I was like, okay, this is interesting. And then I began to read and I began to have discussions with them on how this actually interacts, you know, and how this actually tracks with, you know, real foundational evidence. And one of the critiques, even though I, even though I personally am not a, I wouldn't refer to myself as a Marxist Leninist, I would refer to myself more as an Orthodox Marxist. or and specifically an anarchist, one of the beliefs of the Marxist Leninist is that socialism has to be scientific, right? We need to base it on some sort of method of analysis and some sort of factual methodology. for it to actually function, right? So that's when I began to apply this this idea of dialectics into my understanding. I began to actually study the historical conditions, right? And a lot of, a lot of the narratives that come to communism has caused direct deaths, you know, is not one that is foundationally Based on, on, you know, without biases, right? And that's, that's something that a lot of people misunderstand about

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 9:21

So what, what would be a, like a simple way, would you say that, that Stalin, Mao, like those are not, were, were they not pure communists? Is that the argument

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 9:31

so, so no. So, specifically Mao and Stalin, you know, there are, there is some interpret, there's almost no, there's almost no argument that Lenin was a, or It's fully tied and believed into his communist ideology. However, Stalin is one that is more critiqued specifically in anarchist spaces, which is why it's important for me to be an anarchist because I don't, part of my anarchist belief comes from, you know, looking at historical analysis and actually critiquing, you know, Marxist Leninist leaders. Right.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 10:03

what, what is the, what, what's the, the, the uniqueness about anarchists? So it's, it's, it's like, is it a form of communism without hierarchical structures? Like, what, like, help, help me understand what

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 10:14

Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 10:15

Uniqueness is

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 10:15

So, so first off, anarchism is, is a name that gets a lot of bad traction and that's

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 10:21

Yeah. It has kind of a net. Like, it, it, it almost sounds like you're blowing things up. Right? But, but that's not from a, from a like a political or a governance structure. That's not what it

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 10:30

Yeah. So anarchism is the belief that we should deconstruct hierarchy as a whole. And along with that is that there is no necessary there is no necessity for states to exist. Right? So for a lot of people, that's a hard pill to swallow. It's like, Whoa, that sounds crazy. Like, what do you mean states shouldn't exist? What do you mean hierarchy shouldn't exist? Right? And one of the key things that you have to understand here when you're reading into anarchism is that anarchism isn't about hierarchy that we will. It's about hierarchy that is coercive, right? So a teacher student relationship that I can, that I agree upon and that I consent to under my own free will is not hierarchy in the terms of the anarchist lens. Rather, there are other, you know, components of hierarchy that are, are more into, in tune with what the anarchists are referring to.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 11:23

That would say that there's no hierarchy, there's no leadership, there's no authority, there's no like, so when I think about, oh North Korea, right, you've got a, a leader over that. In an anarchist model, you would not have a leader, it would

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 11:36

Yeah. So, so that's it. So here's the thing, right? Is that for some people they read into communism and they read into anarchism and they're like, wow, what, how are these, how are these related? How are you, how can you be an anarchist and a communist? However, the end goal of a communist society, which is something I'm going to go more in depth into later is a stateless, moneyless and classless society, which is, you know, the three tenants that people actually refer to, you know, that isn't a specific, that isn't a specific you a specific way of referring to communism under the text, rather it's, it's the goal or the end goal of communism. Well, anarchism also seeks to achieve stateless, moneyless, and classless society. So, communism, or Marxist Leninism, which is the most popular mode of an understanding of communism, has the same goal as anarchism. However, our difference is how we get there and how we achieve that.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 12:32

Mm hmm. Okay. Okay. And then I know I asked this as kind of a tangent question with anarchism, but back to a common critique you hear about communism is Mao, Stalin, like death toll from communist regimes is massive. What do people get wrong with

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 12:49

Yeah, so here's one understanding or one confusion here is that there is a an issue with analysis in terms of these these places Mao and and and the USSR. There are different historical conditions as to why these occurred and different reasoning. So First off, let's look into Mao, right? Now, Mao was, although I'm not personally a Maoist, there's a lot of confusion that comes under under Mao. Like, there is no set understanding of the real, like, number of deaths under the famine, which is, in a way of, like, understanding history, that's kind of insane, right? Is that we don't have a set number, because I've heard anywhere from, from 15 million to 80 million. I heard 80 million the other day. And it's like, wow, that's a huge, that's a huge confusion. So, so there, so there's a common misconception there and it's, and people take that people take the, the most commonly accepted number or amongst historians is 30 million people hear that. And they, they hear they hear the issue with, with Mao and they're like, wow, communism led to this. However, this isn't, we can study scientifically in terms of, of the condition. Of of china beforehand and afterhand, right? So when we look at communism, I think the best way to evaluate how communist systems have worked Is that we want to look at the position and this of the state before communism and after communism, right? because if before communism, right there were Billions of billions of billions of people dying and then after communism, there were 10 million people dying. The 10 million people weren't caused by communism. If anything, the decrease was referred to as communism, right? That's a that's a more extreme example. So with Mao, for example, there were famines were not uncommon in China. While a lot of Maoist critiques and specific, critiques of Mao are that there was a mishandling of of the the agriculture that occurred there Famines were not uncommon into China. In fact, the deaths from the famine that occurred after the great leap forward predate predating that there were also famines that occurred under that with similar numbers, right? So these, so these things weren't specific to them, it was regular, or it was normal for famines to occur under China. However,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 15:07

had people slaughtered for non compliance, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 15:10

Specifically, who specifically, like in, in reference to what?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 15:16

Well, both Mao and Stalin, like if you didn't, I guess like if you didn't come, you know, comply to the system and everything, then you would be,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 15:26

mm hmm. So,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 15:27

like that. So there's that too, like there's the famine for sure. And I think like it's a, it's a decent point that like there's been famine over the course of history and all. more old history famine was not uncommon. And so there's, I think there's and we don't have to go into this too much depth, right? But, but, like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 15:44

Yeah, and,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 15:45

there are arguments The communist structure led to some of the famine,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 15:50

mm

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 15:50

is I think part of the argument. But even if we take that out, there was, there was, you know, some atrocities that were certainly

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 15:56

Yeah, so. Yeah, so, so, see, this is one thing, too, that you have to you really have to be read up on it to really understand it, and specifically, this historically tracks as to why people are so misinformed of, of communism and actually, like, understand it. So if you, if you've read anything about you, do you guys know about the Red Scare and McCarthyism?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 16:19

I, I think I've heard of it, but I kind of forgot. We have not read it. I know, but I've heard about it, we've learned about it in history. I

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 16:26

Yeah. So in history, you'll learn, you'll learn about McCarthy, right. Who was, who basically what he did was he funneled a bunch of you know, anti communist propaganda across states. And one of the, one of the most important policy decisions that he made was that in Eastern Europe, he funded these countries in order to deter them away from, you know, communism after the Second World War, right? So this was one of the most important policies that refer to that go into depth as to why there is such a, a weird and complex understanding of communism, right? And the Red Scare. Now, on to the deaths of the, of the of the people, right? So, In, in certain countries, right? There are certain countries that they, they are entirely devoid of communist policy, and the only reason they're actually referred to communism is because there is a conflationary idea with authoritarianism and communism, right? So, modern day China is, is, I would refer to modern day China as a country with with communist ideology and a communist party. However, a country, and in certain aspects, and in certain aspects, they've actually, like, gone away from that, which is very,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 17:36

they've developed free markets even now.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 17:38

Yeah, which is very apparent. But countries such as North Korea, there's no indication that they are in any sense of the word or capacity actually communist or run under communist ideology. If any, and it goes kind of more in depth into why people are misunderstanding that right. And

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 17:55

this might go into I think it's a question we had later boys around Like communist societies one of the critiques is they can, they, they are susceptible to authoritarian regime, right? And so that's, that's maybe like a, like a, a risk of a communist society is that they are they're highly susceptible to an authoritarian regime, which I, I'd say it's maybe fair to say that that is what occurred in, in a lot of these instances and maybe in, in currently in North Korea. So, you know, how does one avoid that?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 18:31

Yeah. So, you know, one of the, one of the, the necessary understandings that we have to understand is that communism in nature is anti authoritarian, right? It seeks the destruction of the state and it seeks the destruction of the, the, the bourgeoisie, which refers to the ruling class, which holds power over the the working class the entire point of communism is to advance the working class, right? And before I go back into that just going back into what I was saying before with north korea Is that a lot of those deaths are or one it's two things. It's conflationary it's conflation right with things that are not actually communist communist or socialist in nature One of the most key examples here before I go more into that Is is the national socialist party of germany the nazis? They refer to themselves as socialist and for the working class However, all of their ideologies were anti communist in nature. The first people they killed were the communists They they got they tried to get rid the first people to die on the sorry not the first people to give but the first People who died on the line fighting the nazis were the communists, right? There was a there's a constant battle hitler had adopted the term in order to gain traction with germany right to gain To gain an idea that was popular in order to seize power. However, everything he did was antithetical to the communist cause, which is something that is conflationary. A lot of the deaths, however, I have are defensible, right? A lot of the deaths that were counted. A lot of the propaganda that comes into communism has killed this many people. This number comes from a specific historian. I forgot his name specifically, but he counted. Nazi deaths as part of the the death toll of communism, which is like wow That is that is a very that is a very biased

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 20:15

I've heard that too. I've heard that too. Well, how about this? Instead of talking about the deaths, how about this? When we, when, when any let's say a country that is

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 20:25

Oh, yeah Yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 20:26

when, when you tear down a wall between East and West Germany, or if you were to tear down the wall between North and South Korea, which way would people be running?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 20:35

people people ran towards and I'm gonna be honest about this people ran towards I had the cap of the capitalist side, which was a Eastern Germany, I believe. Yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 20:43

Yeah. And so, so even if we take, let's say the, you know, the death thing out it would seem that people run towards a free market society. And so if communism is so great, and I even think like Cuba and so like they want to come to a free, you know, a free market nation. And so. I, I feel like, you know, a lot of people advocate for this, but it's, there's this sort of argument that is like, it's just never been done right. And I wonder, like, how many times it can never be done right before we realize that maybe it's not, like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 21:20

So, so, so here's the, so here's the thing, right? Here's the, here's the, the nuance. Here's the, here's a more nuanced understanding of this is that Marx actually refers to why people cling to a capitalist society. And he refers to this term, which is why you need to understand communism. And I'm going to go more in depth into that. Oh, before, before that, yeah, I, on the, on before, just the last point about the death thing I was going to say is that. Something that you guys have to under also understand is that part of these deaths are part of revolution, right? No revolution has ever come or no real revolution has ever come across with peace or full peace or non violence, right? Even even the the revolution of Gandhi Which was a generally peaceful thing had, you know violence in in parts of India, right? So no revolution has ever come with that with peace So it's not necessarily that we're saying we're saying that that death as a whole or violence as a whole is unnecessary because in certain material conditions it is necessary, right? And now back, yeah, so I just want to, you know, make sure that you guys had to, you know, that, that is part of, a part of how revolution occurs, you know, the American revolution had, had

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 22:27

Of course. Of course.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 22:29

you know, one of the critiques one of the, one of the things that Marx discussed is that people are so alienated by, from their labor that they cling to the material conditions. That, or they cling to the systems that are inherently exploitive of them, right? One thing in, in Eastern Germany and, and Western Germany is that in eastern Germany, which was the Russian side. There were certain conditions that were, you know, the USSR had, especially the USSR had some conditions that were, you know, damaging to them. It's specific, it's specifically revolution counter revolutions that were occurring famines that were damaging to why, you know, the communist structure has, you know, has failed, which is part of the reason that as an anarchist, I'm critical of certain foundational ideas of Marxist Leninist, I however I do understand that there are a lot of biases and a lot of interpretations that I as an anarchist can't just avoid, I can't simply defer and say, well, Stalin was, you know, all bad. Stalin was bad because this, this, this, and that, right? I need to understand and evaluate the conditions of the working class and how it actually impacted this. Yeah. So that is one of the reasons why people cling to the systems that are exploiting them, which, which is what the communists believe that they're exploitive in nature, right? The example, one of the examples you got, you brought up was Cuba, right? And a lot of people don't really understand what's going on in Cuba because They're not read up amongst Cuban people and they're not read up on, on literature on what's actually going on. Cuba is one of the things that as a Cuban myself, I had to actually go in depth and read on, you know, the you know, experience is good. But knowledge and facts are better, right? The experience of one person doesn't shape the experiences of an entire nation. So I had to understand and read into Cuba. And what I realized and recognized was that there is a strong Imperial US force that has occurred over the years, specifically with the Cuban embargo that has damaged the, the flourishment of the Cuban people. You know, and another issue that is inherently tied to the Cubans themselves and the Cuban government is the nature of policing in Cuba, you know, which I would argue has moved us away and move the Cuban people away from the true communist cause. Right.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 24:48

Just to break that down, so you're saying that the reason it hasn't been successful in Cuba is because America's had their thumb on Cuba,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 24:55

When we evaluate failure and success, right? I think these are generally very subjective terms, right? I wouldn't argue that communism in Cuba has failed because there are a majority, there are a large group of policies in Cuba that were specifically tied to the communist cause that highlight how the Cuban revolution was a success. Right? So I wouldn't argue that communism in Cuba has failed. I would argue that communism in Cuba has been deterred from its full realization by U. S. imperialism or U. S. forces.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 25:32

Okay, and your family moved, like, came to the U. S. from Cuba,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 25:39

Yes.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 25:40

why?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 25:41

So specifically because the Castro regime, in my opinion, is one of the most damaging regimes to the communist cause and has been authoritarian in nature. And specifically, and as well, because there is a nature of impoverishment in Cuba. Right. They're also there are also reasonings behind this. Right. The embargo, I would argue, is one is the key reason for why Cuba has been in such a, a poverty for years. Right. Cuba pre existing the Cuban revolution. Was also not a very wealthy country and relied on Cuban exports. However, the difference between the Cuban revolution, the country before the Cuban revolution and after the Cuban revolution is that there was a system of hypercapitalism where or our hyper, hypercapitalist ideology, where Batista, who was the preexisting leader. Allowed for slave labor relations and exploitation of the working class. And then post the Cuban revolution, there was an emphasis on uniting the, you know, working class and, and this was slowed down and deterred by the embargo, which has exacerbated the poverty that has occurred in Cuba.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 26:47

okay. Okay. Wait. I just have a question. It's just kind of like a random question. I don't really know if it's a good one or not. But, I know that in the Cold War, it was like, basically like, the western half of Europe, basically, and America, versus the USSR, I'm pretty sure. I'm wondering then, are you then, would you then think it would be better if Like, if the USSR won, and if communism went all the way in through Europe?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 27:18

If communism had existed in Europe or had benefited the European ideas, it depends on, because this is a hypothetical, it depends on how Stalin would have continued his regime. So it would have, it would have had, it depended on if Stalin specifically was overthrown and specifically if Stalin had actually stuck to the cause, I'm more read up on, on Lenin than I, than I am Stalin. However parts of the, the parts of the reason I'm critical of Stalin is that he, he championed the state for too long, right? He, they, so, so communism, right, specifically refers to the end goal of, a stateless moneyless class of society. Right. And socialism is, is a broad term, but specifically when Marx refers to socialism, it's the transitionary state between cap capitalism and, and, and, and communism. And actually, let me rephrase this specifically Marxist, you know, Marx specifically, he never referred to socialism. He just used the terms interchangeably, but when Marxist referred to it. They refer to the transitionary state, and something I am

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 28:22

on the way. It's basically like, Marx refers to socialism as a step towards communism,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 28:28

Yeah. Yeah. The Marxist specifically. So, so the, the reason part of the reasoning behind this is, is that I'm critical of the USSR is because there was an over championship of of state, state capitalism, right. Which is what, you know, the socialists refer to it. And Emma Goldman, which is one of the most famous and prolific

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 28:46

to ask you about her. Okay, good,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 28:48

yeah, which is one of the most prolific and and and communist reader. I'm sorry an anarchist propagandist roof has an essay referred to Which says there is no communism in Russia, right which discusses how Stalin specifically, you know walked away from his championship or or his Or, or the Marxist ideology. And she's actually Lithuanian, right? And she was an anarchist, but she was still critical of the things. This is where a lot of the battles come between the anarchists and the communists, even though we are mostly united on most issues, is that there is, there are certain critiques where is there a real realization of communism? Where is this actually occurring? One of the most famous Cuban revolutionaries, Che Guevara's son Che Guevara. which led and spearheaded the Cuban Revolution. His grandson was actually arrested by the Castroist regime. He was arrested by Castro police. And that, that's kind of crazy when you think about it because it's like the grandson of the revolutionary who was painted. On on Cuban houses on all over Cuba was arrested by Cuban police and one of the one of his most famous quotes is that he says my grandfather would never stand from this would never stand for this right he's he's an anarchist, and he was anti Castro is the nature but he was still a communist, he just had recognized where there was a detachment from communist ideology. Right. So there has to be a reasoning and a lot of nuance between understanding communism and how it actually interacts with the material conditions of society, which is why communists say, Hey, communism has to be scientific. It has to be. Based on an analysis of history, right? We have to take a real world analysis, realize where is praxis being applied? Where is communism actually being applied? How is it helping the regime? How is it helping? How is it actually being applied? Is this communism? And is this functioning dialectically, right? So that's why we have to understand, you know, communism. And, and one of the things that Now, now, I, I, now I've yapped actually a bunch of like actual, a bunch of, about the conditions of communism, but I kind of want to, let's go, I want to go more into what is communism, right? Like, what is communism itself? You guys, you guys said, well, communism is, is where everybody gets everything. Right? That's one of the, the, the examples of how American propaganda has influenced understanding of communism. Communism refers specifically to the working class seizing the means of production. Right? That is the idea of the communists, that the working class should own the means of production, and that private property should be abolished. Now, what do you guys think private property is? That's an important question I have to ask you guys.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 31:34

I think private property is basically like what you own because like my private property is I don't know my bed. I mean like, our home maybe yeah our home I just like sleep in my bed really nice. My home is awesome So I feel like that's private property, but I just have like a If, like, did you say, like, abolish the private property, or?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 31:57

Yes, yes, so, so, here's one thing, right? Now you have a, you, you like your bed, right? You like, you like your, you don't want to, you don't want to, you don't want to give your bed away to, to so right. So that's one of the key issues is that private property is not personal property. The things you described are personal property. Private property can refer to houses and other things, but your bed and certain things like that refer to personal property. So one of the things I just said there is. Wait, your house can be private property, but your bed isn't private property. How does that cross a line, right? Here's the thing. Houses can be prop private property in the way that they function and the way that they're used, right? So what Marx is talking about when he says private property isn't beds or personal property, he's referring to the means of production. So things that produce goods and services and things that can be used in order to boost the, the economy and function in terms of, of actually producing work. Right? So,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 33:01

So that means, basically if you, so it means basically communism, with the abolish private property, so that means you would basically give, or that means you wouldn't have a house

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 33:13

No, you would still, you, you still, you, everybody, everybody would, everybody would have a house under communism. Communism seeks to abolish private property in terms of the owners or the private ownership of private property. The word private, right? Communism doesn't seek to abolish property. It seeks to abolish private property, right? Which is the privatization and the own, the, the singular ownership of the individual over the means of, of what is being produced, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 33:41

So that means basically it's where that means that like the person who owns it is not really like the former owner, it's like everyone basically like owns it.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 33:51

In, in, in, sort of, in, in a sense, right, is that people who, people who work and produce labor are owed their labor, right? So let's go into the house example. Mao, one of the most famous thing that Mao did was kill all the landlords, right? It's like, wow, why didn't Mao do that? And it's because part of the issues is that there was an exploitation of land ownership in in pre agrarian, sorry, in agrarian China, right? Is that China was a feudal society. Do you guys know what feudalism is?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 34:26

Oh.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 34:26

feudalism is is a is a is before is predates capitalism and it's the system and predates all of these systems is the system in which there were landowners and people who lived on these lands and then they worked. in that labor, in that labor, right? Sort of kind of like slavery, but more, more complex or more, more tort, more based on land ownership, right? Is that the reason that Mao killed all these is because they were exploiting the laborers. They were basically slave owners, right? So that's part of the reason that there was a killing of landlords, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 34:59

What if the landlord like actually took good care of the people, like gave them a nice place to stay and a meal for doing the work? Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 35:05

The, the reality is, there wasn't really a nice treatment of the people in almost every situation. And if there

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 35:11

we could, we could, maybe we could fast forward it because I, I actually am interested in how you apply the same ideas into like today's society of bourgeoisie and proletariat.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 35:21

yeah, so, so,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 35:22

think a lot of people like, like are skeptical of, of who's really oppressing who.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 35:28

yeah, so, so killing, so killing the landlords, you know, is, is a step that is, that is far into the revolution, you

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 35:34

Yeah. But like, how about, how about a founder of a company and the people that work in the company? Hmm.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 35:39

So specifically a communist revolution in general, right? Needs to function with deconstructing these bourgeoisie ideologies, right? And there, there is, we aren't saying that we need to just kill all the rich or we need to get rid of the rich people, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 35:56

Yeah. Well, I don't know. There's some people that advocate for

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 35:59

We're, we're not saying, we're not saying, we're not saying. See, see, that's the thing. Luigi himself, he was a rich guy. He came from a private, he came from private property. So why don't we, why wouldn't we, why wouldn't we kill, why wouldn't we kill someone like Luigi while we would, you know, kill someone like a, the insurance guy, it's because Luigi was what Marx refers to as a class traitor. He betrayed his, petite bourgeoisie class or the bourgeoisie class that he actively participated in. So there are. instances where people can go into these labors. And the reason that there is any murder or any, any violence towards these people is specifically because revolution does not occur with nonviolence and revolution needs to occur when when we need to defend ourselves from oppression. Right. And there are different reasoning as reasonings as to why this could occur or how this could occur. One of the key, one of the key, let's look and I think that for an analysis in terms of America is let's look at how revolutionaries were, were battled the state, right? Let's look at someone like Fred Hampton. Fred, do you guys know who Fred Hampton was? He was a leader of the Black Panther Party, and he formed the Rainbow Coalition, and he was, he started free breakfast programs, and free education for the black communities, and he aligned different communities communities together in order to support this. And one of the things that occurred was that he was surveillanced by the FBI and then killed in his home. However, and then when police analysis went into the actual scene and the battle between the Black Panthers and Fred Hampton, they found that the Black Panthers had shot one bullet while the cops had shot 99. Right? So there is a, a constant battle between, you know, states and revolution that is necessary. When does the need for violence occurs? That violence occurs when there is an oppression of the people, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 38:00

Who decides if it's oppression or not? Okay.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 38:04

see, we, we view, we view, we, see, this is why we need to look at scientific assault, communism as scientific, right? We need to evaluate where oppression exists, right? So oppression, so oppression can be highlighted and viewed by different people, right? And oppression On the communist scale exists in terms of the bourgeoisie, right? It doesn't really exist in the class of the petite bourgeoisie, right? The petite bourgeoisie is, it refers to, so, so just for understanding of the terms, the bourgeoisie refers to the elite ruling class, which. Gains power over, or has holds power over the proletariat tab? Factory.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 38:48

about, the boys and I talked about the, the, those terms a little bit. They're complex, but you could say like, maybe we can use even like an example. I don't know. Like, I think sometimes the, the theory of all this gets

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 39:01

Mm-hmm Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 39:02

Maybe we can use an example, like, like let's, let's use an example of like, I worked at a company where this is a true story. Okay. I worked at a company where our founder invented a. unique device, patented it, and it became very well known and highly desired all over the world. I went to work at that company and contributed a lot of value along the way. But ultimately, like, this was, you know, his idea. And and so some would say that this CEO, who is now a billionaire, and me, working there, contributing a lot. He was oppressing me, right? Or that I was working and I should control the means of production in this company. But at the same time, like I would not have had the opportunity to work in this company and I made a good living and I got stock options and all this kind of stuff. Right. And, and so on the other hand, I think I was actually exploiting him because it was his idea that I used to get like more wealth in my life. And so, In an example of that, like, I could see somebody coming in subjectively and saying like, Oh, bad guy, billionaire, came up with idea, oppressed all these people, exploited their labor. But from my view, I don't, I didn't view it that way. And I was, you know, a worker and a contributor in the company. So, how does one break that down? Reasonably,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 40:26

so ultimately there are two things that I want to discuss here, right? Is that capitalism alienates us from our labor, right? So in terms of, of, of viewing wage, right? Or specifically, yeah, specifically capitalism alienates us from our labor. So that means that we don't really see the value of the labor that we produce, right? Now, depending on your position at the company, you're either more or less alienated from your labor, right? So A guy who is, is, is is someone who, like a manager, not a manager, right? But let's say this guy is a CEO, right? And he is, you specifically, you worked in a position where you're creating the factory, right? Where you're utilizing the tools. You're utilizing all these things to to, to help function this, right? If you're the guy right under him, you wouldn't say that the guy right under him is, is being exploited, right? Because the guy right under him is making billions of billions of dollars. Right? So capitalism always defaults to these hierarchical forms of exploitation or, or scales of exploitation. And the, the most exploited people are the ones who produce things right now. One of your arguments here is that, well, you utilize this idea and it's. Important to recognize that ideas don't produce wealth, right? There are important, but they don't really produce wealth in terms of actual praxis. They may create forms of producing wealth. So an idea might formulate a method into which you create. Wealth, but the actual creation of the wealth comes from the labor that is produced, right? So if you're a factory line man, you're producing, you're the one actually producing the labor the, the value of the,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 42:13

if I invent, but if I invent something that nobody else has invented, maybe it's a unique alloy. It's super light and super strong. And I invented it and I give people the recipe, you know, on the line, they come in and I give them the recipe of pour so much of this in, pour so much of that in. And then that, that, that puts it out. I guess like. I'm just trying to understand how that's, how that idea is not being exploited by others, then. It's my idea, like, like, this new super ally, let's say. How am I exploiting the labor of the people that make it?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 42:45

Yeah. So

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 42:46

I, I, I took the risk, I built the factory, I took the time, I did all the studies, I invented the thing, I came up with the recipe, I took the risk, I invested in the equipment, they're just showing up, they're, they're literally just showing up by by their own free will to work for a, a wage that they or they can go work somewhere else, so I, I'm just like, I

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 43:10

yeah, ideas.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 43:11

how does that exploit,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 43:12

here's, so here's the thing ideas can be exploited. That's something that we need to understand. It's not necessarily the idea that is the thing that's being exploited because ideas are not are new, are, are not. Concrete in terms of how they produce value, right? So let's say you are a factory. So let's let, let's use a real word a praxis of this. Let's use a real world analysis of this. You're a guy and you start a car company, right? And this car company produces electric cars. Right? And that's your idea. That's your, that's your labor. And you bring it up to your boss. That, that idea is then stolen by him, claimed by him, and utilized by him. This is exploitation that occurs on, on all levels. So, it's not the idea, but in the same nature, you could also take an idea, begin to start a factory, and then

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 44:03

taking an idea and making it reality are two different things,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 44:06

so, yeah, so, so, in that nature, it's not the idea that is the

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 44:10

I have an idea for time travel. I have an idea for transportation,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 44:13

yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 44:14

but, but taking it, like making it a reality, like, like in this case, like actually making the first electric car.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 44:21

so, understand here, it's not the idea that's being exploited, it's the method of which labor functions, right? Or it's the method of how wage labor function that is inherently exploitive in nature, right? And this is, this is one of the key tenants of understanding why the communists believe that communism is necessary is because whenever there is capitalism. slavery occurs, right? Now you guys are like, wait, what, what, what is wait with wage slavery? How does that, how does that make that? That probably sounds confusing, right? So I want to give you guys kind of a con an example, right? And this is one of the things that helped me understand are understood wage slavery. So for capitalism to exist, there needs to be classes. It's impossible for everybody to. To it's impossible for, for there to be a, a unification of classes, for example, because it's antithetical to capitalism. Capitalism refers needs private property, right? Not everybody can get rich under capitalism. It's impossible. It's impossible, right? Historically, it's impossible. Not, and nor do people actually champion this because for production to occur, you need workers. Right. So

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 45:34

So not, not everybody can, oh, go ahead Will.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 45:37

Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 45:37

so I under, I understand your point, right, like, like um, for maybe back then, like, like in the 1800s or whatever, where like, people maybe couldn't get away from like a special job they worked at, right? Maybe they were a slave or whatever. But, nowadays, in capitalism, you're able to choose where you get to work. So you, it's not necessarily, wage slavery, you don't, if like, if you think that this one place is treating you wrong, you could just go to a different place and start working

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 46:06

so when I say not, when I say not everybody can get rich under capitalism, I'm not saying everybody.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 46:13

gets rich in communism, right? Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 46:15

no, well, the country,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 46:18

So not everybody gets rich in capitalism, but nobody gets rich in communism.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 46:22

people, the people become, the working class enriches itself, right? The, the,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 46:26

But not really, that means like you're not really that rich anymore, because then it's all even out. And I think this is where the notion of equal outcomes comes to play, where when Will described communism, he said, well, everybody gets the same. And, I mean, maybe correct us, but doesn't everybody not get the same? So like, let's say you're a beautiful mind and you work harder than other people in the community. You contribute more, but you get the same, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 46:58

no, you don't get the same.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 46:59

So I could have a bigger house, I could have a bigger car, I could have more food, I could have things like that in a communist setup?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 47:08

If you build a big house and you build a bigger house than your neighbor, you don't, you don't owe, you don't owe the house. See, that's the, that's one of the key miscommunications and misunderstanding. The key goal of communism is that The labor that is produced by the working class is owed to the working class. The labor that you produce is owed to the proletariat, the working class, right? So that's why I said when everybody in capitalism. It's impossible for everybody to get rich, and what I mean by that is, I'm not saying that there can't, that capitalism doesn't allow for all individuals to produce wealth, or all, or all individuals to work towards producing wealth individually. What I'm saying is that it is impossible in a capitalist country for everybody to be rich, or every, every single individual in that country to be rich. It needs, it needs classes to exist, right? You guys, you guys, you guys asked, well, if I have, if I build a bigger house, right, that, that, that could be owed to you. If you build a bigger house and you are given that labor and you produce that labor yourself, you don't owe that house to every, to anybody else. Communism now as opposed to communism 2, 000 years ago,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 48:19

Mm hmm.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 48:20

Let's look at, let's look at housing right now, right? How many homeless people do you guys, do you guys know how many homeless people are in America?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 48:27

I saw the number, is it about, is it like, it's like half a million? Six hundred thousand?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 48:33

Yeah, 653, 000 people in homelessness. Now, I want you guys to take a guess. Now, I want you guys to, this is, this is one of the key understandings that, that kind of made me understand more, like, why communism is necessary. How many houses do you think there are for every homeless person in America?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 48:51

At least, yeah, there's definitely space.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 48:54

There are

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 48:55

Now, are you counting for, there's people with multiple homes, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 48:59

I'm counting, I'm, I'm talking about vacant homes, so homes that have, yeah, vacant homes, there are 28 houses. For every homeless person in America, that means if you were to give every homeless person in America, there would be 27 houses for those individuals left over. So it's like, how, how, how does that exist? How does that occur? Well, one of the things, yeah, and why there is so that's one of the things that we have to understand is

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 49:25

I think that's a really good point. That's a pretty good point.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 49:28

it's like how, why is homelessness, homelessness is not an issue that needs to exist. And

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 49:32

Yeah. Well, It's

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 49:35

could give a house to every individual, and there would still be a surplus of houses for, for that to function. Or, or there

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 49:43

Part of homelessness though is, is, it's more than just that they're homeless. It's also that they have drug addiction and mental illness, right? So.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 49:53

one of the issues, but the key tenet here is that you have to understand that there is, when there is a separation, or there is a separation from the labor that you produce, there is an unnecessary and one of the key things that you also have to understand is that in America, especially now, and in society as a whole, there is a, an extraneous surplus of value. Right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 50:15

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 50:16

This is, this is why, in case you guys don't know this, a lot of people don't know this, Marx was an economist, he was actually, this is why we, this is why people read Marx in college, is because he was, he was based, he was an economist, he studied economics one of the key things that you have to understand is that there's such a huge surplus of value that creates all of these extraneous things. issues in order to supply and line the pockets of, of wealth, which is why there are people who are democratic socialists, as opposed to, you know, or, or people who believe in socialist causes and socialist ideas and, and things that are rooted, but don't necessarily argue for the the dismantling of capitalism. Right.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 50:57

If you're just saying that everybody, all the homeless people in America can have a house, why can't, like, for free basically, right? Why can't we just get a free house? That's not fair.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 51:09

well, here's the thing, right, is that houses are already built, right? I'm not saying that individuals don't need to, to work, right? Like, this is one of the, the key misunderstandings. It's like, people don't need to work. Like, if you were to give homeless people a house in America, right, or you were to give Not even just houses, but spaces to live in, right? Which already exists, homeless shelters or things like that. And you were to like work on these things and you were to transform this, this labor into, to housing. And you're like, Oh, why do people need to, why should I have to work to own a house? In part you shouldn't have to work as hard as you do to own a house. Like, I mean, currently in society, there's no necessity for, for this extraneous amount of labor to own a basic house. You know, there's no need to. There's no real need or a moral

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 51:55

Well, I, I, so this is a point I actually really I want to stress because I agree with that. I, the the value of homes is now almost unattainable for a lot of people in America. I feel fortunate, I grew up in a time where I got out of college, I got a job and I was able to buy a little condo. And then, you know, I turned that into a house and I turned that into another house and another house. Right. And property values have gone up tremendously, but that is mostly driven right by inflation and inflation is created by debt and a fiat money supply and a fiat money supply is actually one of Marxist like Marx's Tenants they need to control the money supply, right? so so in my opinion like We have communism in America We have a fiat money supply that the people don't manage the government manages they print when they want they take debt when they want and so I think there's an argument to say that like that idea has actually contributed greatly to inflation which has made Prices of assets go up and that has exacerbated the wealth

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 53:08

Yeah, so so the I believe like what you're referring to the fiat money supply Marx argues that we should That that labor that value comes from labor. He doesn't argue that value comes from money or something that is foundational so so one of the key ideas in Marx is not that that the all that we should own or that the we should own money Right, but rather that We are owed, the working class is owed the labor they produce, right? What is, so, so the working class, the individuals, the people that put in the labor are owed the labor that they occur. And that's where, that's what it goes back into exploitation, right? Exploitation occurs when, well, when the labor that you produce creates surplus value. Right? Which we refer to as profit. Now surplus value is so large and so extraneous in America and in economic conditions that it, that in nature, it has to be exploited, right? So if you all the late, so, so take, so see, I have a job, right? What so surplus value is labor is something that we can actually like track. It's the labor is the extraneous labor that is stolen from the working class. And it doesn't refer to labor or labor. And one of the arguments that I, that someone brought up, he's like, well, what do we need to grow the business? What do we need to grow the You know, those things it's like, well, that is work that is growing the means of production, right? That's not the surplus value we're referring to. We're referring to the surplus value that is stolen and put directly into the pockets of the individual of the individual that runs the factory.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 54:45

Yeah, like if we think about it as a, as the owner of a company and the workers in a company, what you're talking about in surplus is how much profit that owner takes in,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 54:53

yeah, exactly.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 54:54

And you're saying that there's a limit to how much that, that, that should be. And like, who decides?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 54:59

yeah, it's a, it's so, so the working class should own the means of production, which is what the communists believe is that there is, there

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 55:05

So then why would anybody start a business? Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 55:09

communism, there is no, there is no businesses per se, right? There are factories and there are things that function. One

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 55:16

who, who, who, who comes up with those ideas?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 55:19

people

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 55:19

would they come up with them if there's no benefit?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 55:21

people come up with those ideas, people, people come up with those ideas in the car.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 55:26

Like, I want to invent an electric car so that I can be wealthy.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 55:30

so,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 55:30

like, bring, bring, you know, a lot of economic value to a lot

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 55:34

you wouldn't see, see, that's it. See, that's the issue is that is that you wouldn't want to invent in a communist society in capitalism, makes us think that we need to invent things to get wealthy, right? But wealth isn't something that we should, or wealth in terms of a personal value or fetishizing money is not something that the human or individuals should chase after. Right. We should find wealth in other facets of society. And I was actually in a debate about this, actually the other guy, and he's like. Well, and I was referring, it was about AI, and I had this crazy this, this, this theory that, that we need to utilize AI to minimize labor and then humans can flourish and dally and read art and literature and do all the other things that are extraneous, and it's like, And he said, he said, well, well, you know, human dignity needs labor. And I was like, see, see, see that's the thing. It's like human dig. That labor does in a sense give us human dignity, but labor that is stolen from us and labor that it fr needs exploitation doesn't give us liberty. It doesn't produce the value that we

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 56:36

I'm still, though, confused on, like, what's the limit? Like, if I own a, let's just even really simplify it, okay? Like, I own a coffee shop, and And I have, and I make delicious coffee. You know, I came up with a recipe that makes delicious coffee. I got these two guys that work for me and making my coffee. And people love my coffee, so they keep coming in. So then I have to expand, and I, I make more coffee. And ultimately Like, It's so popular that we get a lot of people coming in for coffee and I'm paying these two gentlemen Well, but I'm making a lot of money because you know, it's my coffee shop. I took the risk I took the thing I made the recipe at what point like am I making too much like if is it like

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 57:17

it's not a

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 57:17

profit 20 50

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 57:19

see that's that's the confusion. It's not about what you're making. It's about the way you're making it, right? It's about the function of of how you're taking away wealth, right? So let's say you own

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 57:31

Who am I taking wealth from that

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 57:33

You're, well, you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, let's say you're coffee shop, which is, is actually a petite bourgeoisie thing. It's not, it's not a bourgeoisie thing, right? So, it's a, it's a smaller bourgeoisie, which

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 57:45

it turns into starbucks

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 57:47

yeah, yeah. So let's say, see, see, that's the thing, right? It's a petite bourgeoisie thing until Marx writes about the bourgeoisie. So Marx actually writes about, he actually accounts for this. He's like, wow, wow, look, this is the, this is the petite bourgeoisie. He says the petite bourgeoisie will ultimately, because there was such a distinction. Between the labor, they will ultimately blend in with the bourgeoisie. They ultimately become part of the working lives because as a, as a, as a small business owner or as a small restaurant owner, you are ultimately actually putting in risk, right? When you're a bill, when you're a billionaire, when ri risk isn't really real thing, right? At least not in a real world practice, right? You're a billionaire. You put in a million dollars into a company to grow it. You still have a, a billion left,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 58:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 58:32

So it, it is understandable that, that there is a, a, a driver or, or a, a need or, or, or want right to, to derive some wealth from the labor that you're producing, which is what the communists are arguing, right? Is that labor belongs to the working class. Labor belongs to those who produce it, right? But when you, when you have a, a, such a alienation and such a surplus value of labor, there ultimately comes a, a system of, of exploitation that occurs, right? So let's look at one of the most foundational things, food, right? Let's look at how food functions in America. What do you guys think the surplus like of food is? Like how much do you guys think that food, how much of food do you guys think is actually unsold or uneaten?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 59:17

Oh, it's a lot. I've seen this number. It's a lot. Yeah, actually like too much food is like one of our biggest problems in

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 59:26

Yeah, it is. It is, it is 91 million tons, and that is, that is 38% of our food supply. That is such a, there is such an exacerbate amount of surplus that is derived from that labor and that is unnecessarily derived because it drives an incentivizes profit. Right. Which is one of the issues is that your key, your, when you look into creating a business or creating a wealth, you shouldn't look into creating wealth. to lie in your pocket, but wealth or wealth in the terms of the capitalist sense, but wealth that benefits not only yourself that you derive the labor that you derive from, but wealth that also benefits the community and the working class where it is necessary. Right? So, let's say, let's say you own a cof or let's say you work in an agriculture farm, or you work as a farmer, right? You create these things and you have this, because there's not, a majority of Americans, right, are not farmers, right? Something that is necessary for people to do is work. People need to work, right? People enjoy work, right? Or people enjoy labor specific.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:00:31

I don't know I don't know

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:00:33

Here's the thing. People enjoy labor, right? It, a lot of people are like, well, you know, if there's no, if there's, if you don't have to, if you don't have to work, then most people. In some way, enjoy working. I mean, this is how, this is how societies have functioned for, for, for life.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:00:51

I agree, though, that people find usefulness when they're working or providing labor, right? They have purpose, usefulness, and that it provides reward and like a happiness feedback loop. I agree with that in principle, but when I look around society today, I think there's also a desire to maximize your output. Maximizing your outcomes versus minimizing your level of effort

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:01:16

Yeah, see that,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:01:17

yes,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:01:21

that the work, yeah, the

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:01:23

but, but, but Marxism like promotes the, the exact, well, so go ahead and I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll chime in on this.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:01:30

so Marx argues that we are so separated from our labor. Individuals are so separated from their labor and the value they actually produce and, and we're referring to workers, right? Workers are so separated from their labor that they don't actually get to get that feedback loop, right? I work at Burger, I work at, I work at Burger King, right? I go in, I flip burgers. I'm miserable. I go home, I, I get like 20, I get 20 in my bank account after like five, and I don't, I don't see any of the, the value of that is produced in my labor from my labor, or I don't see a, a, a, while the, the economic output that is hugely brought from me or hugely stolen specifically from my, my corporation. It lines their pockets right now that now this is part of the nature of exploitation right and part of the nature of of how it works is that the working class has been so separated from the value they produce and the actual work that they're outputting that it is so hard for us to actually measure how much value we're actually producing

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:02:37

Yeah, I, I guess like, go ahead Will. The thing is though, with those people that are higher up that are getting more money, those people, they've probably worked to be there, so they're probably, the money that they're getting is probably well deserved. Mm.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:02:54

right is that I would argue that There are certain circumstances where individuals do put in effort in order to climb up, right? There are circumstances where people work towards that, right? Where people work to produce value, or work to climb higher up in society. And the argument isn't that people don't work towards this. The argument, rather, is that the climb towards this, or the climb, the higher you get up, The more you need to exploit someone or exploit some form of work or some form of the capitalist system in order to climb up. Now hop. Now here's a real world example of this. Look at a company like Apple, right? Steve or individuals that work at Apple or people who are climbing up, they do put in work and they do function into work. However, simply just saying that they, they work or they work up to it is ignorant of the fact. Right. That at the same time that they are working up or that they are working like to climb up or to get rich in the company at the same time that that's occurring, they need to utilize slave labor from the Congo to produce their parts, right? So while these individuals are working class, exploitation is still happening, right? And individuals need to participate in this exploitation in order to climb up. Right? Which is why, which is why you need to get the labor that you're producing, right? Which is why you're owed the labor you're producing. So, let's say, let's say you guys, you guys, you guys want to work, right? You guys, let's say in a communist society, you guys want to create a coffee shop, right? For whatever reason, you guys want to innovate the coffee shop in order to produce this, right? Now In a society, in a society where your needs are met and you're producing things, it's like you are, you receive the value of the labor you're producing because you actually own the coffee shop rather than just. Participating it or you're part of the part of coffee shop and you see that labor actually coming to you, right? Which is what is the communists are arguing is that labor needs to come to you and it needs to come specifically To the working class, right? We look at the working class as well as a connect as a collectedness, right? Which is why we need to understand that communism isn't arguing that everybody gets the same thing, right? It's arguing that everybody's needs need to get done and that the individual needs,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:05:18

If your needs,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:05:20

needs needs to be met while the individual needs to, or the working class needs to see the value of the labor they're producing.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:05:29

well, if your needs are being met, what incentive is there to work hard and innovate and so forth if your needs are being

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:05:38

Yeah. So I was actually, I,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:05:39

role in the

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:05:40

so I was actually on an anarchist forum the other day and they were like, asking questions and they were like, well, if nobody needs to work, if, if what incentivizes you to work, and I commented, what would make me not want to work? I would comment, you'd probably die. Like realistically. Right. It's like, it sounds, it sounds

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:05:59

Well, not if your needs are met, if your needs are met by the system, because

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:06:02

what, Yeah. Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:06:04

somebody to work

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:06:05

Yeah, it require, it require, it requires every, everybody to work. It requires, there is no, there is no, you are not owed anything by anyone, right? You are not you are not owed a house or you're not owed things, right? If you're a serial killer or you're a terrible person, specifically if you're, you know, someone who is, is not actually producing any labor, there's no reason for, for individuals to feed you, right? Now.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:06:29

well, that's so that's interesting. Okay. Let's say you don't want to take part in this system You don't want to have a job and Then what happens to those people?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:06:37

Yeah. So there's two things. There's two things. It is that one, eventually people are gonna come into the, under the realization or the recognition that they, they, most people, it is a very minority, right? That will realize that they need to work, right? It's like that they need to produce value or that they want to produce value, right? Sitting, sitting home on your, your phone all day, doom scrolling. While for a week, while for a week might seem pleasurable, in the end goal, there is a need in human nature in order to advance, you know, something or work on something. This is why people innovate outside of that. So, so, or people innovate in terms of working towards this. So let's look at a real world practice application. You look at the USSR, right? People. Needed to work, people needed to work in the USSR in order for it to function, in order to feed

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:07:28

Well, they were given they were they were assigned work

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:07:32

Well, individuals were already working and they were moved towards places where they worked, which is part, which is called which is revisionism. And in part I would argue that Rev Revisionism under Stalin failed heavily. Like it, there was, there's yeah, there's

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:07:46

Well, there's, yeah, there's a part of communism where you can

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:07:49

Yeah. Stop.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:07:50

and

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:07:50

I mean, no, you're not, you're not assigned a job in communism in, in Stalin.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:07:55

want to, if you don't want to find your own job, then you're assigned one, right? Or, they, they kill you? Like, or let you die? Like, what

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:08:01

you don't. Well, I mean, if you, nobody has to let you die.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:08:04

Today we have social systems that take care of people that fall through the cracks, right? We have safety nets for

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:08:10

Yeah. It's like people could, people could, you know, people could die if, if, if society doesn't want to take care of you. But realistically, there would be no need for people to die. There would be no pe need for people to be lazy or, or not participate in, in, in agriculture.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:08:26

people. That's the same human nature. They're the same people that we have today. They're going to be drug addicts or mentally ill. And like, what do we do with them? We got to have programs for them. Right.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:08:34

yeah. So we can have for for drug addicts and homeless and sorry, drug addicts and mentally ill people. We need to have you know, homeless people and not everybody. Needs to work, which is where the the, the phrasing,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:08:46

So why wouldn't I just want to be one of the, my needs are met and I don't have to work. When I think of like human nature, right, I want the best outcomes, right? I want to optimize my outcomes in, in life and I want to minimize my level of effort to get those outcomes. So if the outcomes are, let's say fixed, like, like I can only get to a certain level of outcome, whether it's, you know, wealth or my. Possessions or property or, or, or whatever in, in a, in a communist system. It seems like there's a ceiling on the outcomes. So then what it will do is, it will drive people to minimize their level of effort because that now I want to have minimal effort. For this outcome and if the outcomes are the same then effort is going to asymptotically go to zero and I think this is like one of the real challenges with communism is how do you incentivize people to work hard when it's a Theoretical like always because it's a good because it's the right thing to do to go invent stuff and then then hand that over to Society, but if you don't reap the rewards of that I don't see how people are really incentivized to do that And and so my my view of this and I think a lot of people that would have criticisms of communism say that it is Anti human nature it is anti innovation and it it It puts society into a downward spiral of effort. Mm

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:10:18

Yeah. That is one of the, I'd say one of the most more compelling arguments and more of the, the foundationally backed arguments in terms of, of actually understanding or critiquing communism. So let's go into, let's go into that first thing, right? This ceiling argument, right? There is a, in communism, there is a ceiling, right? And it's the ceiling has I would argue right in terms of what Marx is actually arguing is does the wealth that you have ultimately Is there there's i'd say there's almost two ceilings, right? And the first one comes before the the the first one comes after the

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:10:55

basic needs and

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:10:56

Yeah, so so Is your is is the amount of wealth that you derive and this ceiling I'd argue in reality because there's such a surplus of value is non existent, right? It's if is is the fact that you have so much extraneous wealth while an individual is is suffering is is that it that it that's one of the ceilings, right? It's like. And Tupac, not to, not, not to quote Tupac, but Tupac actually

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:11:24

Okay,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:11:24

yeah, Tupac actually says it's crazy and immoral for a billionaire to, for someone to have billions of dollars in their, in their pockets, right? Now, here's

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:11:32

But you know, they don't have it in their pockets. This is the like one of the fallacies. I

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:11:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:11:36

all in their companies and you, you know, people want

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:11:39

or, or he, he says specifically he says millionaires, you know, or for it to have millions. Yeah, but anyways, but he says he says, he says that and he, so here's the thing, that's, that's one of the ceilings. However, this ceiling is ultimately deconstructed because there is such a surplus value of work that, that the, I'd argue that the labor output that is produced is nowhere near the labor output that is necessary for human survival, right? So human survival, I'd argue now, if we, if we would just wanted to survive as a society, we can minimize labor lower than 10%, I would argue, right? Because the basic, the, the labor that actually goes into producing basic needs and basic cert, and, and, and basic basic things is, is nowhere in comparison to the labor the actual labor produced, right? Only, only a minimal amount of labor actually goes into producing value that is necessary for human survival, right? And we can, and that tracks with the food surplus, right? It's like there is there's such an extraneous amount of food surplus because it drives and incentivizes profit, right? So, so here's the thing, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:12:45

But, but this has also, it's uplifted, like there's less. starving people in America than there were a hundred years ago. The global poverty rate is up since the, the onset of capitalism. The standard of living is up globally, largely because of capitalism and innovation and the industrial revolution. And so, like, I, I guess like, like when I look at outcomes, right, from a system, a governance system capitalism has had. It's not perfect. Like, no, like, don't get me wrong. All of these systems, I think, have similar challenges in terms of they are ripe for corruption, collusion, and so forth. But, Capitalism has produced incredible outcomes for the globe. Communism has provided incredible levels of poverty and death for the globe, historically. So, I just don't, like, understand, like, I think it's just, it's such a hard thing to, to,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:13:42

it's a, yeah, it's a, so here's the thing. Here's the, here's the,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:13:45

How do people still want communism? Tell me, like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:13:48

it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's an understanding of praxis, right? Or it's an understanding of,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:13:53

I feel like I have to be some kind of, like, philosopher to, to, like, this is a utopian idea. Like, the, the, the, the, I guess the point I'm getting at is, like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:14:02

yeah, these

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:14:03

in the real world, in the real world, it's not feasible. It's like, it doesn't show that it has feasibility for implementation or

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:14:12

so these are, these are some of the common arguments I encounter every day,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:14:16

Sure, I, yes,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:14:17

yeah, which is why we need to, we need to, and as communists, we can't just say, well, you know, communism will work, or communism,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:14:25

hasn't been done right yet. That's what I hear all the

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:14:27

yeah, we can't, we can't just say that, we have to actually be scientific in our socialism, so real, real

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:14:34

don't, why don't instead of, instead of, I feel like communist Typically, and a lot of our conversation is in this like value of production, bourgeoisie, proletariat. It's all like sort of like theoretical talk. Why don't the communist anarchists get together? Because you can be an anarchist and a communist in a capitalist country. I cannot be a capitalist in a communist country. So why don't we, why don't you guys prove the experiment? Like why don't you go, you know, find some land and prove this out and and see how it can scale. And prove it out versus talking about revolution and all of this, because it just seems like that would be, that would be a better argument to show people like how it

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:15:16

yeah, here's a one example of that actually functioning. Actually, I'll give you three examples. The Zapatistas in Mexico are one of the most famous. The Zapatistas and the Rojava revolution, I'm arguing. First, are not inherently or specifically tied to anarchists. They just follow almost all or almost or close to all the same principles as anarchism. Right? So the Zapatistas and in Mexico, which have provided and helped highlight some of the autonomous regions in things. And also the Rojava movement. In Syria that is occurring. So those are two anarchist communes that have occurred, right. Or that are currently occurring that are functioning right now and battling for their, and Roosevelt is currently in a battle for independence. And it is it's one of the most foundational battles that a lot of anarchists talk about. And Zapatistas, the Zapatistas are they, they're just functioning as an autonomous region. So there are functions in which, in which this place has occurred. Now

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:16:13

Well, they're still in development, right? They're there.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:16:16

well, this this

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:16:17

revolutionary conflicts

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:16:18

Yeah. The, no, the ziti are not necessarily in a, in, in a quote unquote revolutionary battle. They exist as like their own autonomous. The RVAs are in a battle. Ironically enough, like parts of their, their autonomous region are like helped a little bit by, by like the U. S. Like they're, they are given like some weapons specifically because they are just because it's militarily beneficial to to overthrow, like, to like assist in the Syria, in, in the Syrian battle. But anyways, yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:16:44

don't we see more of it in the United States? Like, those are interesting. I'm not too familiar with those examples. But, like, I mean, we have the Amish. I don't think we'd call them maybe communist. But, like, there are maybe

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:16:54

Well, don't, I'd actually, I'd actually argue like, ironically enough, the, the Amish are specifically in the way they live in commune, communes they kind of resemble primitive communist societies. You know, they, they kind of live in, in that like, foundational

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:17:07

we see more people going to that, then?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:17:09

Yeah. So here's, here's the thing. It's that labor is that the state of labor right now needs, needs people to to work to live, right? It's harder to, to live in, in communes like that. It's harder to, to live in a society or live separate away from a society. Even, even though individuals can do that, and there are individuals that practice in that, it's that it's harder to do that. Right. So why doesn't everybody do that? Well, one, people, companies exist, like late capitalism exists in America. It's hard to, to move

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:17:40

like, how is Nike, how is Nike holding the Amish back from living the way that they want to live?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:17:45

The Amish live the way they, they, okay. Well, the Amish specifically live the way they want to live for religious reasons. And they live without, they live without technology, but most people want to utilize technology. Right. Which is,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:17:58

So, so, so the communists, they want all the benefits of capitalism, but they don't want, like, capital, like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:18:04

Yeah, yeah, so, so that's why we have to be understand, we have to understand what, see one of the things that a lot of people actually don't understand, or, or, or

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:18:13

Well, there's a lot of talk, Pablo, I, I feel like you're telling us that we'd have to understand, like, There's a lot of talk about, like, we have to understand. I don't, what is it that we don't understand?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:18:23

So here's the thing, right? When I talk about this, when

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:18:26

I feel like, like, I'm not gonna go read 20

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:18:28

I got

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:18:28

I've read some Marx, I've read some Marx, and I'm not, like, I'm not enlightened. I'm not enlightened. It's a, like, it's a fictional novel of theory.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:18:37

Here's the thing, right? This, I keep utilizing this word understandingness, right? And actually kind of, kind of, kind of, I know we talked about going into gender ideology and stuff like that. This, and that kind of ties into the word you know, the word woke, yeah. That

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:18:52

Yes. Yes. Yes.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:18:53

that is one of the, that is one of the, the most utilized ink words that is utilized incorrectly. By people what I'm what I say you need to understand is what I'm referring to is is class consciousness, right? or or the the beginning of wokeness, right and it comes from a restructuring of Ideology, right it comes from it comes from a I have to look at I have to step outside of the lens of capitalism and I have to, I have to step from from a scientific lens and actually analyze what's going on, right? I have to use academic and historical Dialectics. We have to be scientific. Now, a lot of individuals they're not so well up. They're not, it's hard for them to read theory. It takes a lot of time to read theory, right? Which is why we need to understand what's going on on a foundational level and that foundational understanding. And what I keep saying is you need to understand not, not to offend you guys, is that we, is that I'm coming from a place of class consciousness, right? I'm coming from a place where. I was a full on capitalist. I believed in the libertarian. I was a libertarian, a left, a right wing, a right wing libertarian. I viewed as

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:20:04

Libertarians and anarchists have some, some overlap actually, right? Like small government, limited government, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:20:10

Yeah, liber Anarchists are libertarians. When I say libertarian, I'm referring to the right wing libertarian. Anarchists are libertarians. In fact, one of the most common names for us is socialist libertarians. Is that, what, unlike libertarians, we realize that that the power structures However, don't can't just be can't just be abolished by by reducing the government or, you know, reducing the state, we also need to realize that that part of part of the people that contribute into this, or the people who own the seat in the means of production. Right. So, so yeah, sorry, I can't we kind of went a little bit off topic

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:20:43

Yeah, yeah, that's okay. I think like, and I'm, I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm, I'm just really trying to

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:20:48

Don't, don't worry, don't worry, don't worry about it. I

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:20:52

you're used to this, but, but like, I'm just trying to understand, like, as you said, I need to understand. So I, I'm not deeply versed in all of this theory. However, I feel like I have a good grasp on reality and what is feasible and what is not and history of What has been tried, and what has failed, and what succeeds, and for those reasons, and, and this is like the common, the most common criticism that communist ideologies get is, like, the feasibility. And so, Every time I try to put a let's say pressure test, a real world example, like, Hey, I invented something cool. Like, how would this work? I, um, increase the value of my home, like, you know, and I think about like, well, why would I do that? What do I get out of that? And I, and I really try to break down these like real world examples. I circle back to the conclusion that gosh, there's just,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:21:49

Yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:21:50

it's a real stretch in terms of like what incentivizes me to want to live in that system.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:21:54

So I would implore you to do. Okay, so when it comes to you. Understanding dialectics and history, one of the things that I would implore you and the audience to do is that, and something I actually do when I read into, when I talk about politics with my dad a lot, is that he reads me out a headline, he reads me out something that he heard online, and I'll tell him, okay, Let me look it up. And then after I look at a primary source, I look at a secondary source to confirm what I'm seeing. I'll read a source from Fox news or a source from CNN, and then I'll read an actual historical or UN source to understand what is actually going on here. And this is, this is one of the key issues that I think is so, so prominent in America is that there is a, a, a large amount on, on. All sides is specifically of misinformation and disinformation and it is it is incredibly becoming difficult to actually recognize what's going on. So one

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:22:51

agree with that. I agree with

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:22:52

Yeah, so one of the things that as and I implore you as Whether you're a communist or a capitalist or, or or anything is step outside of your ideological framework, right? Which is something I do whenever I read anything. Whenever I read, especially, I'm an anarchist, and I read a lot of, I, specifically, I've been reading more about Marxist Leninism. And even though I am antithetical today, I step outside of my framework, and I see, and I, I apply dialectics, right? I apply How is this actually functioning? How? How can I analyze this right? Which is something that we need to analyze, right? And when we look and when we look at and when we look how communism itself has actually involved itself and function within society and and worked towards society, we recognize that it's not necessary that that there is a lot of misrepresentation of information. In mainstream understanding of individuals specific for a variety of reasons. Right? So, so one of the main things is this death toll number. Right. And I've gone into research into the death toll and I, I, I would, I'll give you this. In, in, in contrast to that, the other day I read a post specifically that went into deaths that were caused by capitalist country or capitalism itself. And the post was referred and it said 1. 69 billion deaths, right? So it's like, it's like, whoa, a hundred million, 1. 69 billion. And now here's the thing, right? I didn't look more in depth into the post, but I read some of the events and I understood how they were actually functioning in terms of things. It's like, whoa, these numbers, it's like, we, we have so, there's a lot of numbers here, like, what is going on, right? And it's like, wow, we have to understand we have, sorry, sorry, I can't say we have to understand. We have to Be conscious of what we're reading. We have to be conscious and recognize how different events are actually interacting with systems. Now, real world human psychology, that's a more complex and understanding. And, you know, we can go more into that as we, if you like, but specifically on, why would you want to participate in a communist society? Right. Why would you want to work? If, if you're, why would you want to work? If you're If you just have to give it away to society, why do you want to work if you have to write out and and once more it goes into the surplus value of labor, right? The communist argues that we are alienated from our labor. And the belief is, is that in communism, you are specifically in capitalism, we're alienated from our labor, or the value that we see from our labor, right? And. In communism, you realize the value that this labor is producing more. You see that value going more to benefit you, right? That surplus of value is going into you. And the reason that's so hard and complex to understand, specifically, even now, as a person, I I I not, I don't have a hard grasp of understanding it, but I'm still reading more and recognizing how it's how large that surplus value actually is. Right. That helps us understand is that the surplus of that value is so large. It's so infant, I argue,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:26:07

But how, how do we decide, like, so I don't, I don't disagree that there is a, a large surplus value. We have a huge wealth inequality in, in the country, and there are people that have a lot, right? And then there are people that are struggling and don't have much. And so there's certain left I like no no argument than that exists I believe it's a different cause than maybe capitalism I think it's actually communist influence on our money supply and our systems that have contributed to it versus capitalism and free markets Inflation, primarily, is what I think has caused the wealth gap over time. And that's driven by money, money supply.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:26:49

Yeah, and, and here's what I, and here's, and here's what I have to ask you, right? It's who, who influences inflation? You know,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:26:58

Yeah, the,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:26:59

yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:26:59

Yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:26:59

are, who are the, who are the primary people who influence who is, who is the people who regulate these things? And it's like, this is why we have to be

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:27:06

The government, yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:27:07

Yeah. The government, and not only that corporations also drive and participate in part of the reasons that in, in in inflation has existed. Right. So let's, let's

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:27:17

like, it's also like, but you've got, you know, there's philosophers that you, the, the communist community enjoys, like Keynes, he promotes fiat money systems, he, he wants inflation in these systems, and, and I think it's like largely because he wants to implode capitalism, like, I don't, I can't find another reason why an economist would say that.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:27:37

here's the thing, the communists don't agree with Keynes actually, the communists don't agree with the democratic socialists, right? We view, we view, we view at, we view it as a, a, a, not just a bandage solution, but an impractical one in nature, right? Let's look at something like well, let's look at something like minimum wage, right? I was actually reading into this too, for the debate yesterday. And it's like the issue of minimum wage could. Inherently, or raising minimum wage could inherently damage the working class by creating an inflation, creating a higher inflation rate. And there are some, and this can be reduced in certain measures in certain practices, but we're not arguing for, for government regulation. We're arguing that that surplus value needs to begin to go work, go towards the labor, not just through taxes or, or through a monetary system, but actually go towards the working

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:28:32

so without the, without an authority in, in, in charge I still struggle with like, there is surplus. No, like no disputing that. Okay. There's surplus in the system. Who decides how much to whom from whom

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:28:47

The working class. See, so see, so here's the, so, so there's two things, right? There's two things that you said there, and I want to bring this up and it kind of goes into my dual identity, right? As an anarchist and a communist, right? It's like, it's like, I'm both, I'm both. So, so who decides what right now? Marxist Leninist believe that. There needs to be a this word, which is one of the most confused, confused words of all time, a dictatorship of the proletariat, which refers to when the proletariat takes control of, of, and seizes the means of production. It's when the working class begins to be part of the the working class. I'm sorry, becomes the primary political superior party, right? Not necessarily a literal dictatorship, not that's not what Marx is talking about,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:29:36

Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:29:37

So he's

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:29:38

But I just, it's so, we have, and we have people with these ideas. They come into a lot of our chat threads and stuff too. And like people have deemed, you know, Elon has too much money. Well, okay, maybe Elon does, but like, like who doesn't? Like at what point is like, well, that person's okay. Or that person didn't exploit labor. It seems like there's a real subjective level. of the people who decide, right? It's this, almost like this democratic process by the labors on who decides if this, if this person has been exploited or not. And I just think that's like really scary because what if you. Create a company in good faith and good interest and it grows and you do well as part of it because Stock or the valuation grows and then now people want to end your life Because you've been successful like that's weird That is really weird that like people want to kill elon because he's too rich Like, you know or or somebody like him like a ceo like a luigi like that is Wild that people would think that way

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:30:44

so I had to say two things on that. One when does that end? Right. When does that begin? Right.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:30:49

Yeah, like where's, what's the threshold? It's a subjective threshold to

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:30:52

People who actually practice and believe in communism. It's like exploitation occurs on on minor scales. Right. But this doesn't mean that we kill all these individuals in the in the communist revolution or or overthrow these people. Right. There are there are there are deaths. There are deaths that. Huh?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:31:09

I'm sorry, landlords.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:31:11

Yeah, yeah, there, there are, there are deaths that occur because, you know, those landlords were, you know, futile, they were futile, like, yeah, they were, they were, there are deaths that do occur, right? So when does that stop? And it comes into, when does it become, when do you become an exploiter? And when do you become, yeah, and when

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:31:28

I want to know if I'm an exploiter. Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:31:30

are you part of the proletariat? And actually, one of the reasons, one of the reasons I actually came onto your podcast, or your guys's, and one of the reasons I wanted to discuss is that the liberals have left us. Like, they've, they're gone. They're, they're, I don't, I don't know where they're at. They're, they're, they're, they're waving, they're putting their signs up, they're putting their signs up. They are, they're not doing anything, right? And, and I, and I said this, and I say this, and I say, The, the conservative class is easier to convert to communism than the liberals ever will be. Right? Because the ideas of the, because the ideas of the conservative in nature or, or in desire are actually more in, or more bound or closer to the ideas of the communist, right? Because, because one of the key tenets, yeah, one of the key tenets that the conservative believes on a foundational level is that the laborer or the people, people who put in their work deserve the output of their work. Similarly, communists realize, recognize The people who put in the work deserve the value of their work. However, what the communist evaluates is, is that value actually going to the working class? Is it going to the worker, the worker and the individual? Which is what the, which is what the communist wants to analyze, right? Which is what, what he's studying. He, he wants to recognize a methodology and a, a, a, a form, a, formulate a method of analysis to actually to actually recognize this, right? And. It goes to without saying that a lot of individuals actually, you know, believe this, but they're ostracized or they're, they're moved away from ideas like this or they're moved away from realization, because in large, in large part, A lot of, a lot of conservatives come from where? They come from blue collar backgrounds, right? In large part, they are put in situations where, where they are, they suffer extremes. And then instead of, and one of the things that they'll do is that They'll blame the rest of the working class rather than blaming the government or blaming the CEOs that are inherently exploiting them, right? We are taught from individuals and in a society, and this isn't to say you necessarily, or in society as a whole, to Almost disrespect other workers, right? Where the culture war comes in, it's easier for us to hate each other than to hate the things that are holding us back, right? That's actually why the communists argue that class derives, or that race actually comes from class. All of these hierarchies, they come from class. They don't exist without class. They don't have the power they do on the level they do now. without class occurring. Right? So this goes more into the Luigi and Elon thing, right? When is killing revolutionary? When is murder susceptible, right? And you look at, let's take the healthcare CEO. He's a more, Concrete example, right? You look at, you look at the, you look at the taking of the life, right? And of the, the healthcare CEO and you think about it and on a, a personal level, it hurts, right? It's, it's, it,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:34:38

Yeah. This guy's got

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:34:39

On a, on a, on a personal level, it's hurtful, right? And it might, and not to, not to shock you guys, but on a real level, it's necessary, right? And here's why, right? You

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:34:52

They went after the wrong guy. They went after the wrong, he's working within the system. They got to go after the system. If they don't, don't like what UnitedHealthcare does. UnitedHealthcare is operating on a system based on Obamacare rules and regulations. What I hear about is trying to kill CEOs that are operating within the regulatory structure of the system. This guy's not breaking any rules. This idea of Revolution to bring in a new governance structure. It calls for the ending of a lot of successful people. And I can't help but think like if we don't have an Elon Musk in our society, we don't have satellites in space. He puts 80 to 90 percent of all the satellites in space, his company EVs, right. Boring companies. He's got like, oh, like he. Bought America free speech back. If you don't have the brightest and most innovative minds in society, and I hear the complaints that like, Oh, he didn't do it. Well, he brought it. To reality. Okay, and so I appreciate people that can bring things to reality, whether it's Elon or Steve Jobs or Bezos or whatever and yes, they're super wealthy But like if you take away the most brightest minds of society, like what's that gonna do to society? You know these these countries that kill off their best brightest and smartest and most innovative. They don't tend to do so well

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:36:15

yeah, so I would argue. I would argue that, you know, Elon, in my opinion, is not the smartest and brightest, just based on a few of the things he said and if he is, and if he, and, and I'd argue that intelligence is a nuanced thing, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:36:28

Well, it's not always intelligence. Sometimes intelligence is, there's EQ, there's IQ, right? But he's brought things together and produced it. Elon's probably a whole topic in itself. But, like, you have to appreciate that people actually brought something from idea into fruition, which he's done. And so he may not be the smartest guy, but he got it

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:36:47

Here's how I would evaluate you know, CEO killings, just to go into that. It's two things, right? It's, why, why was the, why was the, the shooting that Luigi Mangione did? Why was it, why would I argue that it wasn't morally incorrect? I would argue that the amount of deaths that occurred, right, under the healthcare CEO, through denying healthcare claims, through the, the, through,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:37:13

He denied them within the construct of the system that exists. He didn't go and say like, I want that lady dead.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:37:20

Yeah, well, I, he, he didn't have to deny them. Like he doesn't, he's a private healthcare company. He doesn't have to deny these individuals. The system itself is harmful, but at the end of the day, people, systems don't run themselves. You know what I mean? So it's like people, people are, are, are actively leaders of systems and actively, participants of systems as well as directors of systems. At the end of the day, at the end of the day, Hitler, Hitler fascism, was the issue was the systemic issue that occurred in Germany, but Hitler was the leader and he had to go to, you know what I mean? Does, when does you know, and it gets kind of gets to a point where, where I was actually one of my friends, he's, he's educating himself on, on these things, and he's understanding him more. He was having a trouble grasping of it and, and the reality of the situation and what a lot of people don't want to accept is that revolution has, there is no revolution that is that isn't violent, that isn't violent, you know, there isn't a revolution.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:38:10

like, yeah. I mean, Emma Goldman called for a lot of violence, and so like, I'm curious then, like maybe this is a good segue into how, from an anarchist communist view, like how. How do you get America to shift that way? What are the steps that have to happen?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:38:28

So there are different viewpoints on, on this specifically. My view specifically is that revolution will only come when the masses become educated. The revolution is two things, right? I'd argue that the revolution is mutual aid, which is working towards as a community to provide your community for things and to provide your community things. And these networks are, you know, are being set up. So it, if you guys to advertise I would tell people go out, join a food, not bombs center, actually, you know, put your ideas and practices and, and go work out. So there are two things right is that the revolution is feeding individuals and feeding things and it is also education, right? so it needs to come from when people become educated

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:39:12

like indoctrination, not education that you're describing though. We want to educate them on, on the way that you want them to think,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:39:19

I don't think I don't think it's necessarily indoctrination, I wouldn't argue that helping someone realize that they might be being exploited is in necessarily indoctrination. I'd argue that any, any teaching any individual an idea would be indoctrination, right? Like you, would you say that you're indoctrinating your kids by, by bringing them on this podcast and, and helping them, you know,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:39:39

Well, we get accused of indoctrination, like literally all day, every day. So I feel this is, this is go ahead, Max. Well, the thing is with every single parent, every single parent indoctrinates their kids.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:39:50

So, yeah, say so. So here's the thing, right? I'd argue, I'd argue that indoctrination is a very subjective term, right? And if, if, if you wanna apply, if you wanna apply, you know, in, in that situation or apply it in a situation where individuals are, are learning things on their own level, I wouldn't argue that that's indoctrination like. Take the, take. Fred Hampton, for example, he led the, the once, once more. Going back to him. He was feeding individuals while he was also, you know, teaching them about socialism. He was providing all these free programs and these, and it, he wasn't, he wasn't just putting a, a spoon in their mouth and a book in their hand. He was showing them and highlighting. the, the, the methods that, that were occurring in the real world examples of how this was occurring and giving actual historics and analysis of this, right? So it's not necessarily indoctrination in my opinion.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:40:36

Well, it can be. He's using food as a tool to get their window of opportunity and time to tell them things that he wants them to believe. That's

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:40:47

Fred Hampton, he, he wasn't using the food as the things, right? He, the Rainbow Coalition

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:40:52

Would they have come in otherwise? Would they have come in to talk to him if not for

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:40:56

individuals came, individuals came to, to, to Black Panther parties. Yeah, without being fed. Yeah, specifically the Black Panther Party was not, the Rainbow Coalition was a, a, a joining of different things that also established a mutual aid network, but individuals had joined the Black Panther Party way before that, and it still exists today. So individuals did come for other reasons outside of mutual aid. That was just something that he helped and individuals didn't even have to like necessarily be educated. He, he put spoons in the mouth of, of individuals that didn't, you know, agree with his cause which is why I say that the revolution is mutual aid because feeding individuals comes before or, or combating a system has to, has to come from within, you know what I mean? Like it can't, it can't just be a non existent and the revolution

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:41:39

back to like, what are the steps, like, what would the steps be

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:41:42

Yeah, I don't, I'd argue, I'd argue that, that classes need to become conscious, you know,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:41:48

But these are like, not, like, like, that's not real, like, how do I say this? Like, I don't feel, like, I'm trying to like, what is that even, like, what does that mean? That's a step. When I, when I think of a step, it's like, okay, we need, we need a lot, like, maybe what you're saying, and I'll try to put this into. My terms Because I'm not as versed on all of these Marxist terms, okay? So, what I think you're saying is we need enough volume of people that agree with us that we can start a revolution.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:42:17

Well, here's the thing. It doesn't necessarily, revolution can be, revolution doesn't have to be transitionary in terms of a war, right? Revolution can just be transitionary in terms of education, right? One of the things that you have to understand is that, in terms of, of, of proletariat to bourgeoisie, in terms of exploitee to exploited, there are, there are a million of us compared to, to the 1 percent that exploits us, right? So there are two things. It's, it's like, it's, it's a, it's a public realization. And, and here's the thing, right? Unfortunately I think there are a lot of things I can do for the communist revolution. And one of the things is, is educate individuals and, and, and participate in mutual aid, right? Participate in actual practice, feed people, help people go out on these things. And, and that is what I've I, I think that the average person should do for revolution, right, is to participate in these systems is actually take your ideas and put them into practice. Right. But unfortunately, the, the reality of the situation is that you know, the, and the anarcho nihilist actually this there's this famous anarcho nihilist. Author, his name is Saren Fiske. He says the, the, the belief of the anarchic I'm gonna censor it here just to, to be more clean, but he says, the anarcho nihilist position is essentially that we are screwed, that there is no path but pure negation. Right? So it's the only thing that you can participate in, in a revolution or, or the only thing that you can do is try to advance that, right? The only way I see revolution occurring or revolution happening is when the masses begin to become educated, right? And if there is a transitionary war that is necessary I would argue that if there's a transitionary war, that transitionary war needs to be on the basis of fighting real world oppression, right? Get rid of the billionaires because eventually the millionaires will dissolve as long as the million billionaires go away, right? It's like the gap between a billion and a million is so high. You know what I mean? It's such an exasperated amount of

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:44:27

Why don't you just negotiate with them to, confiscate their wealth? Like, is that another, instead of, you know, killing people, like, why not just confiscate their wealth?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:44:35

yeah, so yeah, you can confiscate their wealth, but the reality of the situation is that. Slave masters, you know, cling to their plantations, you know, so eventually it does become morally imperative, especially when deaths are occurring. When you look at the CEO killing. It doesn't necessarily peg me as a moral to do something or to do an act that could potentially, save lives. And right after, and one of the things I actually tracked right after is I wanted to see. real world change, right? From the Luigi Mangione thing, right? And two things I saw was a cultural shift. People began to understand more what's going on with Luigi and what's going on with how health care interacts, right? And something I saw is that Healthcare companies began to shift their, their policy. Blue Shield specifically, I believe they're called, actually shifted their, very vastly, or they shifted back like literally a week after, they're unpopular policy on limiting the amount of time that anesthesia would be covered, right? They only had a certain period of time which anesthesia would be covered, right? So it's like these real world changes can

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:45:40

correlation or a causation though, do you

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:45:42

I would argue, I would argue that this is,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:45:45

policies all the

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:45:46

I'd argue that that specifically was, causational because the The, the policy for the longest time was almost, was, there was no sign of it changing, right? There was no real sign of, of, of that occurring. And on a more practical level, I'd argue that on a more cultural level, I'd argue that there were, that death specifically helped individuals realize more how the system was exploiting it. There's this quote I read the other day, and it's that good and evil are not Marxist concepts, they're metaphysical concepts, right, they're, they're, and this is more of a philosophical thing, they're more of something that we interpret based on observations of the world, right, and how I personally interpret it is, is the death of this person, the only time a death in my opinion is necessary, because I am a, a specifically a Christian, although I am very anti death, is this death necessary for self defense, right? Could this be argued that this is in nature some way self defense, right? And I would argue that, yeah, I would argue that it is self defense. It's self defense of the working class, right? It's self defense of the individuals that die under the

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:46:58

But this is like cut off one head of the snake and there's 20 others right behind. He's actually not this, the, the, the CEO of UnitedHealthcare wasn't making any of the decisions on claims.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:47:08

Yeah. And it, but, but the

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:47:10

he, he works within a, like a construct of a system and his employees work and they abide by the rules and regulations within the thing to maximize profit, not and, and so forth. Sure. But like. To say that like killing him saved lives is a really big stretch. Don't you think?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:47:26

right? Here's the thing is that it's that the overall change, right. Or the overall progression of revolution and the overall movement towards revolution is is that it needs cultural change. It needs a methodology to exist, right? So let's look at someone like Elon, right? And I was actually thinking about this the other day. Well, if we get rid of Elon, then Trump. Puts the next guy, the next big billionaire right up next to him. He puts Bezos right next to him. He puts Mark Zuckerberg right next to him. He puts whoever right.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:47:56

Don't think so. I don't think he puts any of them like Elon is specifically unique in in terms of his ability

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:48:03

Right. And let me, let me be clear. Let me be clear. What I say with this, right. Is that replacing one billionaire with another evil billionaire doesn't, doesn't

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:48:11

not all evil, why would they why would they be evil?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:48:13

I think, I think that the, the accumulation of wealth and the necessary.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:48:19

hundreds of thousands of jobs they've created?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:48:22

Let's look at

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:48:22

Giving people, you know,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:48:25

Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:48:26

income, a livelihood,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:48:28

Let's look at, let's look at someone like Zuckerberg. You know what I learned about Zuckerberg the other day, Zuckerberg was, was part of a genocide. Zuckerberg, Zuckerberg's Facebook policy participated and exacerbated the the genocide of, hold on, let me pull up the group of people.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:48:46

Well, I'm not a huge Zuckerberg fan, but like, I know boys, I know we're really long. I'm finding this interesting. If you guys want to take a break,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:48:53

I argue that the, that the level of damage that they've created or the level of, of, Of what is a positive output that they've created is, is not necessarily tied to who they are as individuals, you know, like Elon Musk creating jobs, it's only exists because he needs to exploit workers or he needs to exploit more workers, right? And that,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:49:16

why would anybody want to start a company in this, in this framework? Like, they're, if I start a

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:49:21

that's how, that's how you generate, that's how you

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:49:23

Like, that's crazy.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:49:25

that's how you generate, that's how you generate wealth. I mean, look,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:49:28

I don't want to start a company because I'm going to be, I'm going to be, I'm going to be like, hung, drawn, and quartered. Like, because I'm, I'm exploiting people.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:49:36

That's how you generate wealth,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:49:37

The more successful I am, the more likely I am to be murdered.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:49:40

you, listen, listen, you generate, you generate, you, listen, the, the, the, here's the rea, okay, so, let, let's go into two things, like, one, that's not a true statement at all, the more successful you are, the more success, there

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:49:55

I don't hear anybody talking about their, I guarantee you there are small business owners that are worse to their employees than Elon Musk is to

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:50:03

Poor people are killed on the street, like every day, you know what I mean, it's like, you're, you're not more likely to get murdered because you're rich,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:50:09

in a communist or anarchist revolution you would be.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:50:12

Yeah, exactly. I mean, because you're,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:50:15

You're killing the best and brightest among societies. It's a, it's

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:50:18

I'd argue, I'd argue, I'd argue, I'd argue the best and brightest are generally the ones who are usually getting exploited. You know, I'd argue the best. And this is one of the things that actually drew me into science and anarchism, right? I was like, I came into, to understanding communism and understanding anarchism. from a place of position where I was once more a libertarian, and I was also a scientist. And I was, and, and, and, and I read these things, right? And I, and I read about and I wanted to understand, I was like, well, how am I supposed to function if, if capitalism doesn't exist? And it kind of, kind of drew me out. And I was like, what specific part of capitalism or what specific part of, of, Of capitalism as a, as a policy, as a state needs, it drives science to be studied, drives science to be educated. Right? Because you look at something like the USSR, right? Let's look at the USSR. You look at which wasn't a communist society, right? Which are a communist country. Right. It was a, it was a transitionary country, which was transitioning from capitalism to socialism. However, in, in terms of what they actually were achieving was communist, right? What they were going to do, what they were, their praxis was communist, right? Let's look at the USSR. They. built and innovated and began to, you know, start space programs. They were the first people in space. So it's not that innovation is necessarily driven by a system, right? Innovation is driven by work, the working class. It's driven by people who want to do things right. So I think that, that, that is the biggest.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:51:53

Which system has provided more impactful products to the world? The USSR or America?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:52:00

I would argue that the, I'll bite the bully here, I'm going to say the U. S., specifically because the U. S. has, the U. S. has existed for, for longer I don't think that's a, I don't think that's a necessarily that's a nuanced enough argument to argue that. that just because there has been a certain level of production under, you know, capitalism, because capitalism has existed for other years, right? It's like, how, why don't we try other, I think that the reason that there is a necessity and, and one of the questions you asked me is like, why are you coming to, to cap communism and anarchists is that the reason that there is a necessity for radicalism and change is that people are recognizing That they don't need to succumb to systems, that they don't need to accept these, these outputs, that they don't need

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:52:43

And what if I don't accept a communist system? What happens to

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:52:46

so yeah, one of the things is that you don't, so I saw that question there, and that was one of the questions that more confused me, and it was more, why, what if you don't accept the communist society,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:52:57

Yeah, like, what if, like, let's say, like, even if I really make it basic, like I'm in a small town and we're all farmers or whatever, and I just have a better garden and I produce more out of my garden because I work hard on it and everything else, and then people say, well, you've got to share all of your garden with everybody else, and I'm like, well, no, I don't want to, and I get, I get taken care of, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:53:20

so, so this is more of the individualist, right? This is more of like the, the, what the anarcho individualist argue is that individualism is, is, is necessary. Now, I personally am diametrically opposed to the individualist, right? I don't believe that. Societies can function on an individual level because I think it's unrealistic, right? It's that people produce certain things and that people and other people produce different things that they are good at producing. So you look at something like like, your labor, your wealth, and it's like there is no necessity for that wealth to be stolen if you're producing it. There's that because that labor is yours, that labor cannot be stolen from you, right? What the anarchists are, or what the communists are arguing that should be taken away or should be, sorry, should be moved away is that surplus that, yeah. Take, yeah, take and take, well, take in and redistribute it to the individuals who actually produce that value, right, is the means of production, is the ownership, right? So if you're a farmer, that's different from you being a plantation owner, right? That's different from you owning a plantation that you build, right? Now this is a more extreme example, of course, but owning a plantation or building a plantation that you Or, or owning a plantation in which your slaves work, right, is different from you being a farmer. You're actually producing the work, you're actually getting back the labor that you receive, right? So that labor isn't isn't necessarily stolen from you, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:54:45

hmm. What if I'm a day trip? How about like, so what you're saying is and I, I'm sorry, I just like put this into like my, like my terms, just so I understand. If it's, if I'm using my labor to give myself specific benefits, I get to keep that labor.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:54:59

yeah, if it's for you, if

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:55:00

my garden, my garden produces 10 times as much as anybody else's garden in my community. And I get to keep that because it's my garden and I garden, and I tend to

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:55:08

if you, listen, if you hold, if you hold in your hand that shovel, And you hold in your in your things. Now, there might be, now, realistically, this is how it actually applies, right? This is how historically it would apply. Now, if in the most extreme examples, looking at psychological or, or looking at At very, very, very early stages of development in countries, you would not always see this, right? There is, there has to be a human psychological analysis, right? If people are starving, eventually, what might occur Is that might some people might climb onto your star farm and steal it, right? But this is this is yeah, this is on a very found This is on a very minute like very very like it would have to be an exasperate amount

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:55:57

I, if, if my garden is so good, I'm producing a surplus, even though I'm the only one, I'm the only one with a shovel, but I just work really hard at it. I've perfected my craft. I'm producing more food than I need. So I'm, I'm canning it and I'm freezing it and I'm doing other things just, you know, in case I have a down season next time around, do others have the right to come and take my labor or my food in that situation?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:56:22

I would argue that the labor you owe, right, or that there is a, that you do owe labor in some faction to society, right? However, here's the

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:56:31

So I don't, so I don't get the key. So

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:56:32

wait, wait, wait, wait, here's the thing, here's the thing, right? You, you want to, you, you have a, you have the food, right? You have, you, you make the food, right? But then, Ned, Ned, Nettie next door, she makes sweaters, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:56:49

Oh, so a free market we can trade.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:56:51

you can trade yeah, but trading but you could trade in a communist society They see this this is one of the this is one of the see this is one of the the confusions Is that communism isn't just about just about like dismantling any form of economy or any form of a you know These things it that's not a real that's not a real that's not real practice communism is about the owners, the, the working class owning the labor that they produce, right? So if you, if you have in a farm, if you're in a farm, right? Now let's look at a realistic example. You're probably not going to work that farm yourself. You might build a garden yourself, but working that farm yourself, if you have a farm and then everybody, everybody contributes and everybody produces value. And, and, and there is a, there is a, a, a minimal amount, there is a, a lessening of the, the work effort that is produced in order for commons, for everybody to survive, and then you guys go and you're like, okay, guys, I produce food. Everybody contributes in some way to society, right? Everybody assists in contributing to society. Now. If you're lazy or if you don't want to do that, it's like most people aren't going to be like that. Most people aren't like that. And that tracks with the fact that there are, there's two, there's two things, right? Is that

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:57:58

I don't Like, you don't understand human nature, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:58:00

yeah, most people historically don't want to be, most people historically in all has their, and here's the thing, right? Would you argue that Even in primitive societies where where not every individual worked and participated in a, in an agriculture and, and some people like participated and worked in other things and, and produced or, or late or other things. Would you argue, look at the Greeks, look at the Greeks, right? They

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:58:22

they had to survive. They did it to survive. Like, it's different in today's society. They did it to survive.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:58:28

which is another thing, which is another thing. It's like if you, if you want to survive in a, if you want to survive in a real world application, eventually you're going to have to produce or work in,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 1:58:37

Oh, so if we Sorry, go ahead. Well, the thing is, even with the Going back to like the laziness and all that who wants to work, you know Like Greeks and back then and with their Roman Emperors and stuff. Why would they like this is just laziness. Why would they then get a general when they could like go out their selves? But they had need to hire these people for all these jobs that they need to do so then they can just sit on their phone eating grapes while everyone does their job for them. See that's a real exploit. That's an exploitation example, I

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 1:59:10

Yeah, so yeah, so that's a, that's a method of, of how I, I'm sorry, I didn't really get the question, but like, that's a method of how exploitation occurs. A quote my friend said a long time ago is that most people are actually communist, they just haven't gotten the chance to realize it, or they haven't gotten the chance to, to understand what that actually means, right? And part of the reason that is, is that we are so, we are so propagandized, and we are so In place of a system and even me as a person with parents who are Cuban immigrants was was educated from birth in a way that I had to. I had to, part of the reason and I actually got into an argument with this, about this one day, is that I have always been a, a facts first guy, right? Facts first. Facts have to come first. And

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:00:00

Well, what, okay.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:00:01

where

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:00:02

Well, why are we talking theory then? Well, like, why don't we talk facts about how this is, like, actually performed in

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:00:06

yeah, yeah, so, so, so, yeah, we can, that is one of the things that we were going to go, that I want to go back into,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:00:12

I have to ask this. So you mentioned like people worked in more communal societies because they had to like they had to because if they didn't, they would die of starvation or something right about a long time ago. Today, that's not really the case. And so if somebody doesn't want to contribute, like I don't want to contribute to the system, like I'm just no, I'm not going to do it. Then what I get I get taken away.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:00:33

Individually, well,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:00:34

I get put underground.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:00:35

so on a more, on a, this is from, specifically from the anarchist view, right, which is why, so I'm, I'm referring to my view specifically, it's that the generally accepted or the general consensus is that there's no reason for society to help you. If you don't want to, if you don't want to produce any labor, right? In real world applications. There are individuals that will still feed you, right? There are still people who, despite you not working, may want to feed you. However, society as a whole might not want to feed you. And that has that, that is a realization of. Of what needs that of what occurs right is that laziness is not a trait right now there are certain there are some more futuristic applications of this and there's more futuristic analysis of this that eventually in the future. There will be a less need for labor and there'll be an increase in, you know, in not laziness, but rather labor that is innovative or, or assistant or assist in some nature. Right. But at the end of the day, the reality of the situation is that eventually people will need to work. To to, to survive, right? Society as a whole will need to work to survive. But the issue is isn't how how will people work or when will people work, but rather what the issue we're tackling is, is how will people see the value of that work come to them? How will the working class grow richer? How will the working class you know, continue to grow? And in terms of real world analysis, you know, we can actually go more in depth into that and understanding of that. Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:02:06

I do have a lot of people that come into our comments and our threads and I'm finding that there is this like Gen Z is getting more and more interested in communism you're an example of this. You're a, you're a very by, by the way, are very well read and polite and, and really great example. We've enjoyed getting to know you. There is this like contingent of Gen Z that's growing in their interest of communism. And so what I wonder about a little bit is me Like let's personalize it with me I You know, I didn't grow up wealthy. I grew up in a very like, moderate to lower income family. I saw my dad work hard. He owned, you know, he owned a business and it grew largely on his own labor. Okay. He had a few employees, but then I went to school. I came out, I worked and I saved my money. I went through all these steps, right? Like I, I had to delay my gratification. of buying, you know, a, a bigger house, having a nicer car. And I worked my, my, my butt off for 30 years, okay? And now I'm in a situation where, I'm in a good financial situation. The view of an anarchist or a communist, it's like, I'm not due what I've made, or I, this is what I feel like I hear from people. Meanwhile, like now, like you and I, and no, no offense to you, but like you and I, I've put in 30 years of labor, okay, to have and be where I am. And you are 17, and I'm sure you're going to be super successful, but you and I would get like, we basically like level the playing field and you and I are at the same starting position again, if anarchism and communism takes hold in America, that seems incredibly unfair to me. How do you rationalize that?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:03:52

here's two things, right? It's one thing I had to say to you is, is that you and I are closer to, to are closer in terms of wealth and in terms of, of labor, then Elon Musk's by centuries. Right.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:04:07

Yes, 100%. Yes, yes, yes. He's exponentially further

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:04:11

you, you, specifically you as an individual, you are a, which is why I actually, which is why it goes back into my other point is that the conservative class is way easier to, to, to to, to

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:04:21

But people, I, I literally have people say, you, you live in a nice house. We can tell by, you know, the background of your like videos and you, you know, you've exploited, you're a terrible person.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:04:33

Well,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:04:33

I'm like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:04:34

well, well, I'd argue that these people are not well read and they're, they're distractionary from,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:04:39

but they want to take, they want to take my wealth, Pablo.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:04:43

they're, they're, they're,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:04:45

And they think they're entitled to my wealth.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:04:47

they're distract, you know, they're distractionary and, and, and I, I, I can't speak for, for every individual that says that, you know, but I'd argue that the majority of consensus would, would, would, it would take years to even come close to touching your wealth, you know, when it comes to actual revolution, because the exasperate amount of, of wealth is, is in the pockets of the 1 percent and you, okay. And I are not even close to, to those individuals, right? And that's, that's the issue, right? Is that in the growth of, of our labor, in the, in the in the growth of, of the value that we are receiving from our labor, the, the larger we grow, the harder it becomes to understand The issue that is occurring, right? So I'll take my father as an example. My father is a, is a carpenter, right? My father, in the same breath as he'll say as he'll say it. Damn, this, this wealthy person or this person that is wealthy, just, just stole some money from me in the same breath. He'll, he'll venerate and enjoy the wealth, and it's not, or enjoy, enjoy the wealthy, right? He'll be like, the wealthy, the wealthy, they run, they, they, they run the world. So

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:05:56

But don't you resent, like, like, if I have a nice car, let's say I have a really nice new car. Don't you kind of resent those people?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:06:03

I don't resent those people at all. I resent, I resent individuals and that, that's the thing, right? Is that, is that there is a, a growing issue in terms Of understanding, what I resent is an attachment to exploitation, right? So I don't resent, I don't resent someone who works hard and owns a nice car, right? There are certainly, like, look at it, let's look at a famous political streamer, Hasan Abi, right? He is a person who has accumulated a lot of wealth through streaming, right? He's a part of the petite bourgeoisie, I'd argue, right? Like he is, he, he does a, he does work that is not necessarily exploitive in nature. He doesn't own a fact, you know, he doesn't own factories

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:06:41

That's a great example. Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:06:42

Yeah, so he actually produced, he gains the produce, right? But he also, he also recognizes and, and you know, has the, the, the ability to say, well, guess what? Like that wealth that he doesn't keep that wealth, you know, he distributes it amongst the working class, right? we need to become more accepting of, of, of working class individuals, right? People who are not exploiting, and I think that is a, A key issue that is difficult in terms of of actually getting people on board with our ideas, right? it's like we need to realize that we need to stop this veneration and this admiration of Politicians and and these people who are doing these things we need to stop treating them like gods and we need to realize their role in society and how they Whether it be Joe Biden or whether it be Donald Trump. And that's the, that's the issue is that anarchists specifically don't believe there is a two party system. We believe that in nature, what they actually function to do is work towards helping each other, right? You look at

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:07:45

agree with this. I actually agree. There's not, it's not a two party system. It's a uniparty system. That is, is, is built to protect themselves.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:07:52

I, and I, and you, and, and here's the thing, right, is that you look at someone, you look at someone like Nancy Pelosi, and then you look at someone like Trump, Trump is diametrically opposed to Nancy Pelosi, and then Nancy Pelosi invests in the stock market, which, Trump influences through exacerbating war or exacerbating anything else, and even though Nancy Pelosi claims to be diametrically opposed to him, the money that she invests in, in whatever stock market that is inherently controlled by it benefits her, right? It benefits her more to, to almost create an illusion of a battle between the political parties, right? To benefit her, right? And, and, and, and that's the, that's the issue, right? Is that, that's, that's, that's the issue with, I'd argue that's the issue with With things like doge right in concept doge is a is Necessary right, but the thing is or doge is is is in concept, right? But this is

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:08:47

the idea of doge is necessary. I think every, I think both sides agree that, but like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:08:52

In concept, doge is necessary in terms of, of the fact that governments need to be reduced, right? However, in real world praxis, the richest man in the world,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:09:04

Maybe people can argue that he's making money on Doge, but he seems to be, for a lot of us, good spirited in terms of his desire to limit government, limit government

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:09:17

Yeah, and I argue and I and I argue that in part it's not even it's not even necessarily a spirit. I'd argue that it's more of a misunderstanding of actually what's going on. So, so one of the key tenants here that is that we need to understand, right, is that the budget last year was audited in the same way it was audited by independent investigators over 60 times, right? And the only the only budget Which is kind of hilarious to me. Not, not, hilarious in almost a sick and twisted way. The only budget that has failed an audit seven times is the U. S. military budget, which is our highest budget, right? So I look at something like DOGE and I'm like, okay. You know, I want to I believe in reducing military spending, but I don't believe in reducing it for no reason. I believe in reducing it to, put it into programs that will actually benefit us. Right? And you look at something like you look at something like the military budget. It's like we spend, we spend an exacerbated amount on, on the military budget. Let's take an issue like like food, world hunger, according to UN estimates, the, to tackle world hunger, we would need to spend 40 billion each year, right? This is as a collective, like, as a collective, as a society, we would need to spend 40 billion to tackle world hunger, which is such a difference in value in terms of the military budget, right? So it's like, why aren't we focusing? Why aren't we cutting these programs? Why are we cutting the million dollars that we're sending to Libya, which is there for whatever reason, right? Why is that occurring? Why is that? How is that beneficial? Right? Why? And I think the real world

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:10:57

there's a lot of, there's a lot of erroneous stuff happening with government spending. As you probably know, like, a lot of it is, like, laundering, it's bribes, it's all kinds of stuff. I don't think anybody can dispute that, like, the money could be spent on better things. Solving world hunger homelessness in America taking care of our veterans. Like, there's a lot of things, like, like, so I,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:11:14

And I, and I and

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:11:15

with any of that.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:11:15

and that's the issue. That's the issue, right? Is that,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:11:18

but you, you have to start with cutting the junk. And they've identified over a hundred and ten billion dollars in junk.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:11:25

okay, so here's the thing, right? It's that the junk that is being cut or the junk that is being cut we have to understand that, that the, the things that are, are, we are referring to as junk is a little more complex than that, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:11:37

As an anarchist, you want limited government. Why not just cut, like, when in doubt, you know, I have this theory, actually this, you might enjoy this. So I was often thought of as a fixer. Okay. I would go around my company. Somebody would F up their department. I would go in and fix it. Right. Because it got like over bloated or whatever. And so I would go in and, and I'd say, okay, like, let's look at our processes and procedures. It's very similar. Like theoretically to government, you start getting layers and layers of processes because over time you just create more, you never take stuff out. Right. And so I would go in. I'd rewrite their processes, I'd re look at the staff, and we'd go through, and I, and my philosophy was usually, when in doubt, throw it out. We can always add it back in later, If we're too careful, we won't cut deep enough and I think like we're just cutting like we're just kind of cutting the epidermal layer. We haven't even got into the fat or the visceral fat or like the, or like we're not, we're so far from the organs on, on, you know, our spending that I'm not even concerned. Like we have so much fat in the government that we should be cutting deeper. I want to see them go deeper, deeper, deeper. And I agree that we should be looking into the military budget. It's, it's I used to work in a business that supplied military gear and I know what we charged for it. It's crazy. So there's a lot of opportunity. But

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:12:50

And here's the thing, right? Is that I don't, I don't necessarily disagree that there needs to be a cut. I, well, as an anarchist, I believe that there needs to be an entirety, an entire dismantling. Right. But as a

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:13:01

So, so why wouldn't you be

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:13:02

yeah, but as

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:13:03

for like Doge going deeper?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:13:04

Language is, is dangerous. Language is, is so dangerous. And it's not that we should necessarily censorship, but we need to combat. The danger that occurs in terms of, of some, some, like some of the language

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:13:18

Yeah, who decides that?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:13:20

yeah, with academia, right? With, with,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:13:22

oh, Academia is loaded with people of a specific ideology though, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:13:28

academia is, I would argue that the reason that people cling to a certain ideology is because the ideology is based on, on scientific analysis. I mean, you know, there, there's,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:13:36

There's no, like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:13:38

There is a, there's a, there's a, the reason that, that, that conservatives fail in, in, or, or, like, I saw a clip the other day and it's like, it's these conservatives that were like, oh, I have to, I struggle because, because I have to be liberal or whatever, right? It's like, dude, no, you struggled because your, your economics professor told you, gave you a piece of Marx to read and you, you like refused to read it. Like, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's like there is a, there's not,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:14:02

Well, that's one thing, but what I

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:14:05

Yeah. And that's, and that's, and that's,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:14:06

graded on their interpretation of Marx, and people have different interpretations. Like, I have probably a different interpretation of it than you do.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:14:14

There are interpretations that are. are foundationally based and there are interpretations that are not foundationally based. So you look at, you look at the, you look at, let's look at, let's look at LGBT and, or DEI. Or, or critical race theory, right? It's like people, the main critique of DEI is that diversity. And a lot of the things is, and one of the key issues is that people liberals are liberal specifically, and I have a growing distaste of, I don't know if you saw my post, the liberals are not leftist posts, but I,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:14:45

see that and I liked

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:14:46

I, I

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:14:46

That wasn't the two people in bed or, I don't know,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:14:48

yeah, it's from a, it's from an anime and it is, but the, the, the biggest thing is that, that in my distaste for the, the liberals is that is that they co opt a dangerous mission, right? They, they, they cling on to, they cling on to these, these bandage solutions. They cling on to, to these things because it, and specifically liberal politicians, because it's easier to, to market queerness. It's easier to market queerness and market. Queer acceptance than it is to to, to actually be a liberator of queerness, right? It's, it's, it's, it's easier to, it's easier to put a gay person on a shirt than it is to say, than it is to say that the murders of, of gay people need to stop and that we need to actually foundationally, Actually address these issues on a systemic level. Right? So it's not, so this is the thing, right? The cultural battle between Republicans and Democrats there's four groups of people. There's the, there's the, the alt right, which is. Insane and crazy. And they, they, their ideas are unequivocally and admittedly in all part. Right. They don't even, they don't even like, they don't even like say, Oh, we believe in, in, in strong, strong, super strong government and free capitalism. Right. I'm talking about the, the people who are literally who go out of their way to say they are Nazis. Right, then,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:16:09

yeah. Okay. Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:16:10

then there is the conservative party, right, the liberal party, and the leftist party, right, or, or the, the, the left, right. And, and the, the left does not foundationally or does not foundationally believe in hatred, right. They believe in things that you may disagree on or things that in praxis you may argue. are, are based on things, but those are, those are based on interpretation. However, the conservatives and the liberals, they are constantly engaged in a battle with themselves, which does not benefit them in any nature, right? It does not, it will never put, it will never benefit you

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:16:44

well, I think the greed, doesn't the greed go both ways? Like people, there's, you know, let's just say there's like a have and have not set. And there's definitely like the have nots that haven't put in the work or haven't taken the risks or whatever are greedy and jealous of those that have, and they don't want to put in the time. Like, this is actually

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:17:06

Yeah. And I, and I see. And that's the thing is that I would argue yeah. And this is one of, this is one of the most, this is one of the, the struggling

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:17:14

It may not be with you, but I will tell you, I will tell you. I think there is a challenge with this generation. This is why I think a lot of people are interested in communism, because they want to just like, they just want to burn it down and start over. And, I think part of this is because of this instant gratification generation, like you want something and you want it now and, and you know, I, I talked through my scenario and, and like, I, I worked a long time to get where I am and, and now, and I'm not, you know, I'm not Elon Musk, but I, but like I live a comfortable life. I can take care of my family.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:17:46

yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:17:47

Okay.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:17:48

here's the thing, right? Is that when it comes to when it comes to that, is that a communist who works is usually or a person who claims to be communist or works is usually someone who is more educated on communism than a person like in a jokey sense, but these blue haired, white individuals who, who live with their rich parents and, and, you know, believe in market regulation, right? It's a, a person who is exploited is always going to be more, more educated because they actually

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:18:14

but exploit people can believe they're exploited when they're not like I've had employees, for example, that, they didn't do the greatest work. And they came in, they're like, well, like, how do you feel about giving me a raise? And I'll say, well, you're, you know, you're not, you know, keeping up with the quota of the thing. And so there are people in their own minds, they're thinking that they're exploited, but They may not be, right? Like, they may

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:18:42

I, and I, and I know, yeah, and I'd argue that on a systemically level exploitation occurs, but there are some individuals who have been detached from, from, from labor, right? There are some individuals who, and this occurs specifically in low income communities, is that there is a, a, a deconstruction. Of, of a cultural deconstruction of how labor is to be produced and how labor is, is, is created, right? It's like you look at, you look at you know, you look at communities that are redlined, right? You look at poor communities. Why does theft in terms of personal theft occur more amongst these communities than other communities? Yeah, it, yeah, and it's, it's a, yeah, and it's a cultural issue. And, and a lot of the things, right, is that the Republicans argue is that they say it's a cultural issue, but culture doesn't stem from anywhere. You know what I mean?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:19:35

I'm still a huge skeptic on communism, but, but, but, but I am very interested, like, you can tell, I, hopefully you can tell, like, this is coming from a good place. Some of this stuff is pretty advanced. These guys are 11 and 13.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:19:46

Not to offend you guys, but a lot of, they were very skeptical, you know, my, the people I was talking about, they're like, oh, they're going to clip you out of context. And I was like, no, I've talked to them. They're good faith people. And they seem to be people who are open to actually

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:19:57

I'm not interested in making you look bad. I'm really interested in, in understanding.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:20:01

yeah, so which is something that you know, you guys were kind of the viewpoint I kind of wanted to go into because you know I looked at people like Kirk and I looked at people like all those conservative like debaters and a lot of them a lot of Their arguments are like what people don't notice in terms of like Like, like some people don't notice this, the average person doesn't notice this, but a lot of the things they say are not in, in good faith, right? They're kind of, they're kind of, they're kind of reductionary, especially you look at someone like you look at someone like Kirk and Owens is a less of an example of this. I think Owens, she kind of really believes what she says and Kirk a little bit more, but someone like Ben Shapiro, he definitely, he kind of like talks really fast and it's not a really in a good faith way, right? He's not really making. Logical arguments, but the nature of his voice and the way he talks fast kind of makes you believe it more, right? Which,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:20:52

some people talk with a really good command

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:20:55

Yeah, whereas I, whereas I, yeah, whereas I personally believe that educate that education should come from, from a narrative that helps us I can talk about this stuff for hours. You

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:21:07

Yes, I could I could too. My boys, my boys, almost three hours. Yeah, the boys, the boys are probably getting stir crazy. But I really, I really do enjoy this. I enjoy talking with good faith people. This probably doesn't surprise you, but we have a lot of, I have a lot of people that reach out and they're like, I want to come on and debate you. I'm going to crush you. And I'm like, Whoa, well, this is not good in faith. Like if you said, Hey, I'm curious about how you think about such and such. And like what questions you have or what doubts you have. Bye bye. like you did, then I would say like, okay, that's a discussion worth having. But most nine out of 10 requests that we get are not like that. They're like really they're bias and hateful in terms of like the way that they come across. But I do think like the world benefits when people can get together and talk about these things. And, and I think here's something I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll ask you because I'm, I'm not really, Maybe no big surprise. I'm not really convinced that communism is like the way. However, there are a number of things that I agree with in terms of how, You, you know, discuss and see the challenges that we have. I do believe there's a huge wealth disparity And I I do believe that there's a big surplus at the top, but I don't believe it's created by necessarily the billionaires I believe it's created by the system or maybe there is some some secret oligarchy bourgeoisie That is out there doing all this But I think this, what needs to be addressed and attacked are the systems and it's the Federal Reserve, right? It is it is the people standing up and saying like, I don't know, like, we're not going to pay our taxes until you balance the budget because every piece of debt that is taken fuels inflation.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:22:48

Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:22:49

And so, if people can do that, we need to attack inflation, we need to attack the Federal Reserve, fiat currency, and if we want to really change the wealth gap, the fastest way to do it, in my humble opinion, is address inflation, but bring asset prices down. And there might be things we can do to bring asset prices down home values. The stock market is insanely overvalued. And so if the stock market, for example, went down 80 percent Elon Musk, his, his net worth would come down 80%.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:23:23

Yeah. And I think, I think, see this, this understanding of of things is, is definitely something that we that, that needs to be discussed. Right now I kind of want to go back to the cultural thing just so I can stay on topic, so the issue with the culture thing is that there, there are things that shape these cultures, that shape why, why low income people are. Incentivizes you, right? And I would argue that psychologically, almost everybody and everything, right, is taught everything, right? You are put into a forest and you live amongst foxes and you live amongst wolves, you are, you act like a wolf, you know what I mean? You act like, and this is, this is something that occurs psychologically, like people go feral, like people don't, don't become human, right? So I think psychologically, everything is almost taught. And I think that, here, here's my argument, right? I think that when the value of life If is monetized or put on behind the value of an object, right, it becomes bound to that object in a way that is reductionary, right? That incentivizes the increase of that value, the increase of that thing, right? Attached to that to that, to that object necessarily, right? So, you need money to survive, you need money to live, you need money to exist. And, and this is more of a philosophical thing, but when you are so attached to money, and when you attach money to human life, Right? On a philosophical level, what that generally creates is, is a conflation with the two, right? So the more money you have, the, the more life in a sense you have, the more opportunities you have, the easier it is to live, you know what I

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:24:59

Yeah, right, right. And, and so yeah, I mean materialism is, is Well, I mean, that's a thing, but I like that's, I don't know. I mean, that's like human nature. I think people are drawn to material things, items progression

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:25:11

And I would, and I would argue that

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:25:13

status and

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:25:13

In some nature, people are drawn to material wealth. But I'd argue that there are ways to reduce this, right? Is that once more it goes back into the thing is that human nature doesn't, doesn't derive from, from a general bylaw or a general, in terms of, in terms of, in terms of biology, right? Humans are, are, Ecological creatures. We exist together. We exist unitedly. Right?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:25:40

But do you want to live like, because I think this is an interesting point, like, When I think of Indigenous people that live in a communist structure where they're all sharing, there's no, there's no they might trade things and so forth, like you say. there's no money system and so forth and, you know, their level of happiness and so forth. But I, I don't see people like going and wanting to live like that after they've seen this, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:26:06

yeah, and I, and I would say that there are a lot of indigenous people that do want to live like that. And there are indigenous people who live like, most indigenous people are attached to the reserves that they live in. Right? And they are opposed to these things. This is a, this is like a consensus amongst like things.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:26:20

So why don't, why don't, because you can live, like, as a communist or an anarchist, you can live that way in America. You can go and, like, live that

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:26:30

I could, I could, I could, in a way, I could, in a sense of the word, yeah. Live in, in a, in a commune, right? There is, but what, there are two reasons I wouldn't live in a commune. One reason specifically is that I'm not done here, right? I'm not, I, I could say I'm gonna go leave this system, right? I'm gonna go leave this this nation, right? I'm gonna go leave, I'm gonna go live in Europe, right? But I don't want to. I want to try to fix.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:26:59

Yeah. Yeah, the same problem.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:27:01

Yeah, I want to fix the the issues that are here. I want to work on. I want to work on the people around me. I don't want to abandon them. Right? I could, I could leave. I could leave America, but that doesn't stop the, if I, if I'm a middle class citizen, right? An individual who has the ability to travel anywhere else, I could leave or someone with the ability to travel elsewhere because there are individuals who don't have that ability and don't have

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:27:24

You could live in a, in a communist way here, like in America. I mean, you could

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:27:29

I'd argue that I try to do, I try to live in a communist way here in America.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:27:32

But no, because you're, you're, what you're doing,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:27:36

I don't

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:27:36

is where I think,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:27:37

I don't utilize firsthand things whenever I need. Almost everything I buy is secondhand because I try to minimize the amount, the scale of participation

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:27:45

Yeah, but like, get a group of people together, go out on land, and just live as a, as a communal

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:27:51

and that's another thing. It's

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:27:52

like there's no, no laws prevent you from doing that in a capitalist system.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:27:56

not, well, there are, there are, there, you can't, there are like, there are like zoning laws and issues like that, that, that prevent communes from existing. Like

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:28:04

Mm hmm. But they, but they exist. I mean, well, you could say the Amish, but you could say there's a, I forget the name of them in Vermont. But there are groups that do this in the, in the

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:28:13

Yeah. And there, there are definitely, there are communes that do this, but you know, it's, it's part of that is that once more, I said, I don't want to, I think that there's

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:28:21

you want to, you want to force everybody else into your ideology.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:28:24

don't, I don't, I don't want to force everyone else into

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:28:26

Well, maybe it forces a strong word, but like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:28:29

I want to, I want

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:28:30

I bring this up with communists, I'm like, go do it, go do your thing. And they're like, no, I want you to do it too. The difference is, I will allow you to live however you want. You can live in a communist in my capitalist system, but I I'm not forcing you to live as a capitalist, right? Like, you can live the way you want. Like, like I'm not forcing anything upon you, but you wanna force your system and ideology onto me. And then as part of it, if I'm too wealthy, you want to confiscate my wealth

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:28:59

I like that, I think that'll be good for the episode, but anyways, I like that point right there. I think, here's, here's the thing, right, is that matt, so I want you to think about this, right, is that, let's, let's, this is what I like to do, I like to do, I like to use like logical, like, I like everything logical, right, I like everything with facts, right, it's like, So Matt, you go, you go to, you go to live in your, let's say you, you change it to a communist, right.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:29:23

Mm hmm.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:29:23

you go to live in you go to live in a commune,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:29:26

Okay.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:29:27

And you're, you're, you're happy like that. And you choose to live like that. Matt, while you live in the commune. In Syria, there are drone strikes of children that are occurring in order to produce oil outputs. So, there are issues going on with other people, and I think that it is it's immoral to just say, to turn a blind eye, in my opinion, to the issues that are being caused by this capitalistic force, right? that are being brought. And, and, you know, it's going to be a difference of opinion here, but in my view, these are driven by capitalistic force, right? In my literature, in my reading of literature, in my understanding of history, these are driven by that capitalist cause. So while living in a commune is something that I could do and something that general society can do, there are individuals who are not able to do that. There are individuals who are not able to, to remove themselves from the labor, right? Which is why The communists aren't trying to impose anything on anyone outside of liberation. They are simply saying that liberation should occur, right? That

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:30:33

Communism being liberation.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:30:34

liberation is, communism is the lack of a system, right? In a place where a system does not exist, there is no, there is no, or communism requires the lack of a state, right? Specifically, not just a system, but in a place where a system cannot exist, There is no place where exploitation can exist and where

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:30:54

And then you don't think there's going to be any drone strikes when you don't have a military or any, you

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:30:59

if there's, if there's, if there's, there is no, there is no, there is no reason for, for drone strikes to occur in, in, in any

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:31:06

become highly susceptible to being conquered though, right? Because, like, military,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:31:12

that, well, that's the thing that say, which is, which is one of the things, right, is that sustainability is, is an issue that we need to tackle and that there are examples of, of, of a tackling towards this. And, and in some issues, it's, it's in some parts, it's a little, little harder to, to argue. And this is kind of a. This is a this is a, a, a division amongst communists is, is the difference between one state in socialism in one state versus socialism across the world, right? Marx, Marx says specifically, what Marx says is that socialism needs to exist beyond outside of Outside of just one

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:31:46

is the One World Order philosophy, right? This is why they're pushing

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:31:49

Socialism, socialism, communism needs to exist outside of one state. Now, why does this need to occur? Because the working class needs to liberate itself everywhere in order to prevent. The capitalistic forces

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:32:03

So it needs to be a, it needs to be a world order, is what you're telling

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:32:05

them there. It doesn't need to be a world. Okay. See, see, that's the

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:32:09

But it needs to be a global thing. It can't

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:32:11

Yeah, it has to. So that's what, so Marx is saying that it needs to be a global order in order to stop that exploitation from occurring. Right? So,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:32:19

Marx, you know, the more I, the more that I read and understand about him, he reminds me of Emperor Palpatine.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:32:25

so yeah, Marx. Marx was,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:32:28

With total dominance, we will bring peace to the galaxy.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:32:31

so it's not, yeah, Mark, so, so

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:32:34

That's what it's like.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:32:35

Emperor Palpatine, actually, I'd argue Emperor Palpatine is more like, you know, all of the capitalist leaders and, and, and Luke was an anarchist, you know, Luke was, Luke was combating that empire, you know, so it's not, so here's the thing, right, is that I'm critical of I'm critical of state. I'm critical of state capitalist revolutions. I'm critical of these things. I argue with other communists online all day about these things right about what when they're necessary and when they're not necessary. And I think we need a real historical analysis, but we can't just abandon the cause because some some countries have taken bad tolls or have led this or have left to this thing. A few bad apples do not define a so when you look at, when you look at the same thing with the religion, you know what I mean? I don't, I don't leave Christ simply because there are a lot of Christians out there that aren't good people. You know what I mean? That there are Christians out there that participate in the crusades. This doesn't mean that that Christ himself is inherently negative, but people still choose to believe in Christ. Right? So the argument needs to be more. The argument against communism needs to be critiquing how it actually interacts with society, right? How it actually, how it actually functions and what it's actually doing. And in terms of, in terms of a real world application of real world communism, right? Or

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:33:43

com. We have communist elements in our system. Communist and socialist elements in our system,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:33:48

There are, there are no communist elements in our system. I would argue there are some instances where individuals participate in communist action in terms of how they utilize the system. However, these things are not radical enough to say that they're socialist or communist, which is one of the things that individuals aren't understand that a lot of conservatives don't really understand their life. Oh, and I actually get into my argument with his dad a lot. He's like, Biden's a communist. Biden's a communist. I'm like, Biden's Biden's nowhere near a communist. Biden, Biden, Biden is like, Biden funneled like billions of dollars into Israel. How do you think Biden is a communist at all? No communist on the planet would support that. No communist on the, in, in the, in all of the history of Marx and all of the history of every communist on the pot, on the planet. No communists would, would agree with that funneling of, of, of economy. No communists would, and, and even with, even with Obama, you know, Obama opened one of an oil rig under Obama, not Obama specifically, but under Obama, there was an oil rig that was open. That was so damaging to the environment. So it's like, these people are so detached from, from, from, from the communists, but the reality of the thing is, and the reality of the political situation in America is that politics has become so. So, so tied together, right, is that politics has become so tied together that they think that these minor differences. are actually influencing or actually real world or are actually divisions, right? When they're not divisions, they're a consensus amongst politicians on, on how, on how we should arrive at policy, right? Because at the end of the day, the same policy gets passed, right? The same, whether it is, whether it is pilot or the same effects of policy get passed, right? At the end of the day, inflation still exists because price gouging still exists because corporations still. Influence the thing because the government still ties into, into these things. So at, at these levels, these things still exist. There's just, there's

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:35:59

how does price gouging, how does price gouging exist in a free market?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:36:04

What do you mean?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:36:05

Well, I don't want to get off too many tangents. So, there's a huge challenge with, I think, getting this idea across the line. There's going to be a lot of opposition to this and maybe a place to start. Maybe a place to start is the areas that. conservatives and communists agree on, which is limiting government. And so, for me right now, I would love to see us do more and more to limit government, limit political power, limit terms, things like that, so that we, we don't have, you know, people in office for decades becoming wealthy off the system, and and that the people have more of a voice in what happens. And so, Maybe the silver lining is that we can come together on some of that kind of stuff and, and limit government. And then, from there, maybe, maybe there are other steps that could be taken. But I, I feel like there's reasonable steps, and then there's like, utopian steps that are like, like almost too far to even imagine at this point, you know? So, maybe that's something for us to think about and explore further.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:37:03

So, so I have to, so I, I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell you, and the audience two things, right? Is that I want you guys to take this into account and I want you to you as well, is that I, how, how long have you, how, how you're, how old are you? No, not, not not, no, no offense. But how old are you?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:37:18

I'm 49. I'm, I'm 48. 48,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:37:20

48. How long, how long, how long do you think you will have called yourself a conservative

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:37:30

High, high school. High school. Maybe junior high. Yeah. I, I would say my son's age.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:37:35

yeah, so, so since, since junior high, you have called yourself a conservative. And in middle school, I was also a conservative and I was also educated on this. And then what I did was, is that I, and what I encourage the audience is that, You look up. You don't just look at one source, right? You don't just look at one piece of information. You have to analyze things more in depth. You can't take things at face value anymore. This is one of the most dangerous things that are occurring as society is that the, the idea of, and I, and one of the people in the group chat said this is that he is the believer of common sense. However, common sense still derives from some part of our brain. Okay. Right. Common sense, even, even, even the, the simple axiom that one plus one equals two has to be proved is proved in mathematics. Right. And this is how we scientifically understand things is that we have to look at real world analysis in real world. Understanding. So my advice to you is knowing and listening to all of these things that I have said today is to detach yourself from whatever political ideology you have, detach, try to, try to exist in a vacuum, right? And from there on, try to understand try to understand what is actually going on in historical with the world. And whenever you look at one of your news sources or whenever you look at the media that you're consuming, look at not just one outlet. But look at the source of media that actually prints out the piece of information that, or actually highlights and shows the piece of information that is being that is being discussed, and it's actually reputable, compare and cross compare and analyze the sources. When you come, when the only way that you will ever be a true communist, or the only way that you will ever arrive to the conclusion that communism is a solution. to social ills or, or that you need to be communist in praxis is by reading. There is no way, there's no way to, to arrive at communism by being unhistorical or being unfactual because you will never, you will never understand anything, right? You will never understand anything by, by relying on simple things. Or relying on, on just people's experiences, right? You need to analyze things more contextually. While experiences are a good way of understanding and shaping thought, The actual analysis needs to come from a more general consensus, a more historical analysis, right, that derives itself away from bias. One of the examples, I was actually in your comments section, and I argued with this guy, and I brought up on, on, on a multitude of genders, and I brought up an article, a Britannica, that was, that was actually historically based, and the guy said, Britannica is used by liberal by, instead of refuting it, he was like, Britannica is used by liberals. Look at this Charlie Kirk clip, right? And this in foundation is inherently not a good argument because one source is a person speaking and another source is academic consensus that actually derives from a long line of analysis, right? Which

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:40:46

believe, though, that academic consensus is true? Like, I can show you, for example, if you look at the ITEP study on how they analyze Trump's policies. It's a bunch of super liberals that, like, have been super liberal on social media. Everybody on the, like, internet ecosphere, it references this study about how bad Trump's policies are for inflation. And it's all like hypothetical what ifs on how tariffs work, how his foreign policy works, how his tax plan will work, how the, how it affects markets and prices. And, and so I think there is a legitimate rationale to question news sources, where they come from, because people are like, Oh, this is an ITEP. Well, if you actually look at who wrote it. The authors, the economists that wrote this thing, they're all a bunch of hacks, okay? And they're super liberal bias, liberally. And so they're, they literally wrote it intentionally to try to make Trump look bad. Now, Britannica might be a different kind of a source, but ultimately, like, there is a lot of, like, risk in some of these sources. And I think people have

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:41:52

yeah, which is why, which is why and a lot of people, anyone who's done research needs to understand that these, that there are sources that are more critical than others, right? So, let's look at, let one source, one example, for example one example of this is autism and vaccines, right? The, the idea that vaccines cause autism comes from a paper that wasn't really peer reviewed or foundationally

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:42:15

seen the correlation studies, though, right?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:42:17

Most of the studies and on in terms of vaccines and autism or not are not scientifically back and are disagreed

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:42:24

but there's a massive, but, but, but, but do you agree that there is a massive, like, and we can, we can do, this is where I talk to people about climate change and autism with vaccines, there is a massive correlation of ADHD, autism, and so forth with the onset of mass vaccinations.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:42:39

Yeah. And, and,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:42:40

Now, now there's also, there's also a huge correlation between like ice cream sales and shark attacks.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:42:46

yeah, and, and, and I think, and the thing is, is that, yeah, the thing is, is that a lot of 1, 1, 1 thing is that a lot of these correlational studies specifically are done improperly. And 2, in terms of, in terms of

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:42:57

But why do we believe it for climate change but not for autism?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:43:01

See, that's, see, which is why, which is why my point is here, right, is that that study specifically was not peer reviewed. There are systems and, and ways that we academically actually agree and evaluate things before they're

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:43:13

I can tell you, I did peer reviewed studies. And my buddy reviewed my stuff, I reviewed his stuff. Okay, we're all good. Like, these are not, like, you gotta be careful. I don't know. I don't know.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:43:24

You did studies and they were reviewed by a peer, but peer reviewed specifically has to be by a body of academia, right? And

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:43:32

Lindsay's studies? Where he studied the dogs and rape culture stuff? I should send that to you. You can get anything published. Like, you can get anything published. Even if it's total made up garbage.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:43:43

so here's the thing, right? But Coonan actually speaks about this. He's one of the more prolific anarchist writers. He writes in God in the state, right? That we should only give authority to those that we will. Right. And he argues about how the academic, how the academic body generally has benefits the

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:43:59

They've lost credibility. They've lost all credibility.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:44:02

They benefit. And I, I can understand why, you know, believe that. But I think that in general, I've seen from, from my research and from my study, I would just, I would disagree with that completely. I'd

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:44:13

and I shouldn't say all, but like, they have lost a lot of credibility. They've done things that

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:44:17

I'd argue, I'd argue that there's an over simplicity. There's an over simplicity of. Of analysis that the common man struggles to understand in terms of analysis. Like when you look at the two, when you look at more than a multitude of, when you look at a multitude of gender things, a lot of people don't actually understand gender ideology and why that comes to be right. It's that these things are, these things are studied, right? These things are, these things do

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:44:41

They're studied by people that want it to be real, okay? Like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:44:45

Yeah. And these, I don't, I, I, I, I think that, I

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:44:49

Who, nobody studies like nobody studies gender ideology. That isn't like, oh, I, you know, wanting a certain outcome from it.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:44:58

think, I think there are people who study gender ideology.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:45:03

It's even a studied is

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:45:04

I think, well, I think it is, I think it's an important sociological study. I think that that we need, that it's necessary because the way gender interacts is, is very, in, in, in large part to a certain, to certain narratives, like for example, the, the multiple genders thing, right? It's the, this idea that, so here's the thing, right? It's like, where, what is, what is, what is one of the misconceptions is what is gender, right? What is gender and how is that opposed to sex? Right. What, what is the

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:45:32

a social construct. I

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:45:33

Yeah. Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:45:34

how it's defined. It didn't used to, it didn't used to be, but it has been

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:45:38

Well, yeah. Well, I mean, gender, well, that's the thing, right, is that we understand, we, we understand gender to be more complex than that. Right. So you look at something like gender ideology, you look at something like a, like an understanding, like a, like understanding these things and how they, Okay. How they come to be, right? And it's, it's, the thing is, is that they, they predate Western society. They predate they predate these things. So it's not, it's not like we came, we got these things from anywhere. Indigenous people had a multitude of genders. They had a,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:46:09

but it would be like me, like Pablo, it would be like me calling my priest a unique gender because he represents, you know, like, both both of us in the holy, you know, Spirit or whatever

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:46:19

Yeah,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:46:19

I've looked at some of this stuff and it's mostly like shaman or special people in their society and There are there are societies that have multiple genders. I and I don't we have to go down on this too much But like it's slivers of cultures like pretty much all of Western Asian African Latin America like there are two gender histories as far back as you can as you can find but nonetheless Like I don't really care if what people want to call themselves like Like, but I think it's kind of silly, like if I came up with a term, let's just say I came up with the term right now, I'm going to call it snarf. Snarf is how old I feel.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:46:53

mm, mm.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:46:54

feel 72. So based on my snarf identity, I want to collect Social Security. Now, it's not my biological age. That need be age. So like, like, like this is straw man, but like, but, but like, like that's what has happened with gender. It's taking control of language to manipulate people.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:47:12

so, so here's, there's two things, right? Is that

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:47:15

nobody cares, by the way, nobody cares if somebody wants to dress up as a girl, outside of children, we don't care if somebody wants to be gay, bi, lesbian, whatever we don't care if you want to dress up as more feminine or more masculine, whatever, but when you start compelling my Understanding of the world and and compelling language and forcing me to say things and put things in my bio like that's where Or or we're trying to go after children like this is where that community has lost us and and I think they've Unfortunately, it's like they've gone way too far and now nobody's like on board with

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:47:53

I, so here's the thing, right? Is that and this is why, this is why we need, this is why we need bring real wokeness back into America back again. Okay. Real, and when I say real wokeness, I mean, the wokeness that came from the Black Panthers, right? White people, not, not, not to get into race, but usually white liberals have, Have taken that term and reconstructed it to have a an individual meeting where they are co opting, you know, a misunderstand They're co opting it right there. They're they

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:48:21

taking advantage

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:48:22

Yeah, they, they take these they take, they don't actually, they don't actually want queer liberation, what they want is to market off queer liberation, right, they, they, they want to, they want to put, they want to put rainbows on shirt and in the same branch, they want to continue the, the cycle of oppression that occurs with, with that occurs under queer people, they don't actually want to do anything about it, they just want to sell their, they Their t shirts and that kind of goes into to rainbow capitalism and and why queerness kind of go even all these all these all these different politics kind of go back into to the criticism of systems and things like that. But here's the thing, right, is that you look at the you look at queer people going into queer people affecting kids, right? It's that there is probably very few individuals in America that actually are. are, are queer and, and want to influence children, right? There are very few individuals in America that are, are part of queer culture and want to influence children. However, what there is, what there is a growing example of and a growing understanding of in terms of, of, of queerness is, is certain queer groups wanting to educate people on the fact that queer people exist, right? That, that this is a reality of the situation and, and that's, that's the issue, right? Is that the liberal mindset. is that we don't see color, the liberal mindset, and that has been co opted by some conservatives as well, but usually liberals, like, liberals say this, is that we don't see color, we don't see this, we don't see that. But the reality of the thing, and the reality, the leftist opposes that. He says that it is ignorant to, to, to not say, to say that you do not see color, right? It is ignorant to say that, Something does not exist when that thing interacts with people and other things like that. We need to recognize how we can how we interact with race, how we interact with gender. So we can't just say that these things don't exist we can't just wish them go away. Unfortunately,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:50:15

anybody wants them to go away, but they want to use them as a reason to say that they're oppressed. So, for example, race, like I, I grew up in eighties and nineties, and racism is way more prolific now than it was when I grew up.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:50:27

yeah, and I think, I

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:50:28

I had black kids in my school and like every, like, it wasn't a big deal. It, it wasn't.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:50:33

I think, I think there are, there are and I think, I think that this is, this is something that, you know, we as, as a Latin American specifically, is that I have begun to, you know, understand I, I am, I'm a white Latin Americans to, to be clear. Right. And, you know, growing up, it there are, there are certain aspects of, of racism that I was a little more ignorant to, that I was a little less educated on. I was actually thinking about this the other day, and I have this, this hatred for Anglo Saxon white guilt. Right? For these individuals who, who go to protest for black people and they're like, I'm white and I hate myself. And this is the, and this is the thing is that you saying you're white and you hate yourself doesn't do shit. Sorry, I'm cursing on the,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:51:20

Yes, yes. No but that's, that's true,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:51:22

Doesn't do anything Right. While, while you say you are white and you hate yourself, black people die on the street. You know, they're, it

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:51:28

a virtue signaling thing.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:51:29

Yeah. Which is why this, this, which is why we need to combat liberal, you know, narratives is that, that the, these things don't actually do anything. They're ultimately revolutionary. Right. And I think that, I, I think that we need to, we need to, the, the, the melting, the melting ground comes from a unification of, of individuals, right. The melting ground is when the conservatives and the. Or the individuals that participate in the working class realize that they are being exploited, that there is a nature of, of, of culture and politics that is inherently bound to exploit them, right? There is a, there, it is easier, it is easier to get a group of people to hate themselves than to, you know, hate a system entirely.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:52:11

Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:52:13

And that's,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:52:14

which is why they, which is why they've brought the Like, look I have a theory that there is, has been a massive sort of s PSYOP on America to take us communists, to take us one world order for decades. And part of that has been infiltration of the education systems. Hence why, young people start like believing in these ideologies. And two is creating Identity politics, and it wasn't successful through class system, through financial class system, so they started doing it through LGBT and race, and you need that to start propagating communism. You know Marx. You need you need people to believe that they're oppressed, right? to to propagate communism. And it's it's all part of like this this long game system that they're

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:53:01

I think, I think, I think Matt, you are, you are, this is, this is why, this is actually why I kind of enjoy, I enjoy talking with conservatives, especially ones that are in good faith, because they are so close to the consciousness that is necessary. To, to, to to free themselves. Because they, because in truth is that the, the, the conservatives, they, they, they need, they, they, they're close. They, they, they get, they get it. They get it. In part they get a lot of it. Right. But here's the thing, right, is that you, you look at, you look at the, the, there's two things, right? Is that 2, 2, 1 of the things you said is true, and then the other one, I think you conflated it with the other one, right? There is a creation of social division through other, through economic division, such as race, gender, and queerness

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:53:45

Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't successful enough just based

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:53:48

and LGBT identity. But how, however, that, that division benefits the individuals who are trying to line their pockets more, right? That division, it, it, it, at the, ultimately, it helps the individual who is who is

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:54:07

Yes, it's the people, it's the people that are going to be the ruling class under a communist or heavily socialist to communist system. Those are the people that are going to, that are going to benefit from this. But in your, in, you know, in the way you describe communism is there, there is, you know, there is no hierarchy or authority, which, okay. But these people are setting themselves up, right? Like to be that ruling authority, authoritarian class over a, Essentially a communist world society and, and I, like, I think a lot of this is done by design. It's, it's hard, it's hard to not think that when you want, when you look at it. And so maybe that's the part you think I'm getting right. I think a lot of it's being done by design, but maybe we think like that they want different outcomes. I think that

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:54:51

And, and that's, that's another thing is that you, when you say, when you say when you said the communists are entering the social, the classroom, I don't know if you've ever set foot in a Florida classroom, but you can't say the word gay in a Florida classroom. You can't, you can't, you can't. Yeah, you can't, you, you can't, you, I've been in history classes and this is, this is my personal example, but I've been in history classes where the history teacher cannot, can literally, literally had to say, I cannot, and he jokes around about it because we're, we're teenagers. We're obviously, you know, a little more educated than, than whatever it, but he said, I cannot say that racism has continued systemically in America, past slavery. So, but yeah, and then he just kind of, you know, he was joking around about it, but he, he's being for real, he can't say some of these things. So it's like, how is someone who is arguing that, that, that slavery has not existed in America? It's like, we, we don't see what the shift has been more conservative when it comes to, to, to. Education, right? And, and, and queerness

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:55:53

Well, I don't know. I think in high, I guess maybe I'm referring to academia, higher education and so forth. Florida, obviously like DeSantis cut down, you know, he cut into CRT and DEI and

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:56:07

Yeah, which is one of, which is also one of the more, more missed and understood things, right? And, and, I actually watched one of your episodes on the CRT on the CRT guy, and that guy, like, no offense, but all of the stuff he was saying, he kept, he kept, he said this, and I thought this was hilarious, actually. He's like, Ethnic Studies is this, and CRT is that. And Ethnic Studies is good because of this, while CRT is bad because of that. And I was like, And I, I've read a lot of a lot on CRT and I, you know, I don't know if you've ever seen

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:56:41

But he's an academic, don't you trust him?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:56:44

I, I, I went into, I looked into his paper, I looked into his paper and he wasn't, he's not a, he's not a very prominent, you know, there's always, there's a, which is, I am critical of some academia, you know, it just depends on the academia. I mean, yeah, there's just, there just,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:56:59

implicit bias. Like people want to know what they want to see the papers and the studies that they want to see. Like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:57:03

however, however, what he was saying when he said, when he said ethnic studies is. is from CRT. CRT derives from ethnic studies. It's not, it's not different from ethnic studies. The reason CRT just says that we need to analyze, it's just a way of analyzing how race Implicitly affects society in a way, in a way that is, is critical of it. Right? So critical race theory, like it is a way of, that is way of analyzing that. And when you look at why is, why is, why are people against CRT? Why are people against CRT? It's because one, they don't understand. They don't really understand what CRT is.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:57:44

it's it's creating but yeah, but it's creating more like, identity politics And victim mindset and oppressor versus oppressed. It's it's propagating marxist ideology is what it's doing And so that's why people don't like it

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:57:59

Okay, here's the thing, right, is that one,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:58:01

that. Marx is, you know, he needs that.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:58:06

Marx needs consciousness of things that are, are, Marx needs

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:58:09

Yes, but real things. This is not

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:58:12

CRT, so here's the thing, here's the thing, right, I want, and, and, and you're, you're, you're, you've come to me in good faith, you've come to me in good faith so far, right, and, and I think that, A lot of the things you say are, here's the thing, I'm going to be honest with you. I like you, Mr. Mor I like you, Mr. Morestad.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:58:29

conversation, but yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:58:31

A lot of the things you say are are in, in the faith of, of, of, of things you've heard or things that you've analyzed, right? Or things that you've perceived, right? And there are some, mm,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:58:43

So, like, I hear this all the time, Pavel, and I'm sorry to interrupt. You have to read Marx, then you'll believe every word of it. I've read some of it, and I still don't believe every word of it. I've talked to experts that have read it, and written books about it, right? And they don't believe it. So not everybody that reads Marx is like, taken over

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:59:01

Yeah, there, there are definitely,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:59:02

you read Ayn Rand? Have you read Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:59:05

no, no, no, I

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:59:06

Well, you should read it. So, so, so, so, like, like, it's, it's a completely different, it's, it's an objectivist philosophy. But I don't say like, well, If you haven't read it, you know, like you can't like I don't know. I think it's a weak argument to say that you have to read all those works So, you know what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna read his works But i'm not convinced that it will change my mind because I have a living I have a living example of why mark's Philosophies don't work.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:59:36

here, so, so once more, it goes, it goes more into you know, what I'm saying. And I think that. So here's the thing. I actually, before you read Marx, I think there's other people you should read. And I

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 2:59:47

Don't tell me angles

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 2:59:49

no, not Engels, not Engels. They're kind of, they, they, you know, that's, that's Marx's sugar daddy. But anyways, yeah. So, so going, going, I think that you need to, that communism doesn't come, it doesn't take Marx to become a communist, right? I was a communist long before I read Marx. I was a communist when I began to like realize I was a communist when I began to really study history more, right? I was a communist when I began to study the Cuban Revolution more. As a Cuban myself, I took it upon myself to study the Cuban Revolution. And I read, I read, the first thing I read was I read the academic, I read the body of literature that my, I read, I listened to my father, right? I listened to my father and my mother. And those were two lived experiences, right? Then I read about, I read, I read from people in, in, in, in, I read from people in Cuba. Right. So then I began to, I saw some of their viewpoints too, and I saw the clash between their viewpoints, right? And then after acknowledging people's experiences and acknowledging people's things, I looked into history, right? I looked into the systems, and I realized that

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:00:59

How could you look at history and think communism works? You have to help me with

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:01:02

that's, that's the thing. That's the thing, Matt, Matt, Matt, if you, if you read, if you read the history, I promise you, you're looking,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:01:10

What, what history? Tell me what history I need to read.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:01:12

Matt, Matt,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:01:13

Mao, Stalin, Lenin, huh? Cuba,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:01:17

I want you to, I want you to read, I want you to read about here's, here's one of the countries where. Propaganda, propaganda against, it's, it's, it's, it's a little less known, right? So propaganda has failed against it, right? So you can read, so you can read real, real statistics. There's no, there's no the only, the only information against it is, is, is some of the French disinformation and it's, it's wildly

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:01:43

How do you know it's disinformation?

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:01:45

Mm hmm.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:01:46

How do you know it's like, how do you know what's correct and what's not? You say you read history, but only this history is what you should read,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:01:52

see, okay. So, so the thing is, is you see, that's the thing is that we have to analyze where is, where is the history coming from? Right? So there are, there are some, there are some, and another thing is an example of this in a real world application is I was talking to my Chinese friend about the, the cultural genocide of the Uyghurs. Right? And there were some independents, they were, I read about certain studies, right? I read certain studies from, from independent people that were not bound to, independent researchers that had no, no lens of that had no reason to be subjective, right? Or, sorry, that had no reason to To be biased right that they simply went into the things and they actually studied it right and I looked at those analysis and then I I from that I logically derive what is the correct source of information and there are there are ways of doing this. There are there are methodologies of doing this. One thing is checking. Where, where is the peer review? Where is the, where's the actual study? Where is the, the, the, the actual highlighting of this information? Where is this information coming from? Right? Something. And one of the things that I look at a lot too. When I wanna look into a history or when I wanna look into the USSR or I wanna look into, which is one, one of the, the regions I'm studying more, the USSR, I'm, I'm pretty educated on, on, on the Cuba specifically. And this other country is one of the most I, and I love, I love this country. Burkina Faso. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. It's a, it's, it's a, it's a, it's an African country.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:03:26

Oh, yes. I have heard it. Yes.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:03:28

yeah. Burkina Faso. It's one of the most it's one of, one of like the most interesting countries to

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:03:35

Yes. I looked, I actually looked up like give me some exam. I think maybe with chat GBT or something. I was like, Hey, give me some examples where communism works. At one point. And I think that was one of them, but these are like, now that's like me saying, Yeah. Yeah. Communism works in my house. Like, it's such a small community. It, it, like, how do you, like, where it's scale, you know, and you could argue, like, oh, it worked for, like, five

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:04:00

you look at, yeah, right. Which is why, which is why you look at something like Burkina Faso and you analyze it and it's like, okay, this is a lot easier to digest and analyze. Right? So there is some, there is some you can, so if you look at a country like Burkina Faso, you can understand, at least, let, let, give, it opens your mind up to something, which is where, kind of where I, I begin to open my mind up to that. It begins to open your mind to say that there are, that you have, would you, like, since you, you've seen that country, would you agree that there are some places where communism has worked?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:04:33

Yes, but they're not material enough to, to convince me that it can work on any kind of

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:04:39

Right.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:04:40

For, for, and have longevity.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:04:42

Which is part of the beginning, right, of the journey, in my opinion, part of the journey, not

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:04:48

a journey to death and misery,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:04:50

journey, the journey, the journey to the journey to achieving class consciousness, you

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:04:56

Oh, gosh. Oh,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:04:57

to

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:04:58

We need to,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:04:59

the journey to Living

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:05:00

think one thing.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:05:01

listen, listen, the journey to educate, to open your mind up to new ideas. You know, it's one thing to,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:05:09

Well, I'm here, man. I'm listening to new ideas. I hope you appreciate that. And I really am. And I've learned a lot today, but, but at the same time. I think, I think one thing that would help communists, Marxists, anarchists, like, is we gotta, you gotta start bringing some of this back into plain speak. When you say you gotta understand class consciousness and dialectical material, like, you're gonna lose people right away. You have to be able to put this into plain

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:05:36

Yeah, I, I,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:05:37

this is why a lot of people look at Marx, Marx as a, he's, he's an eloquent writer and speaker, but it's just a fictional, like,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:05:44

I think, I think in a lot of a lot of A lot of the spaces, especially like intellectual spaces, is that people, they become exclusionary because they're, they're not really focusing on the, the, the, the working class, you know what I mean? So I think, I think, you know, coming onto this episode is part of, part of what I believe in uniting the working class in, in terms of, of getting, getting young conservatives on, people who are, are working and actually producing labor. You know, and actually participate in these things because the majority of the working class is part of that proletariat, is part of that working class. They're not part of the bourgeoisie, right? The bourgeoisie is a very minimal part of society. And, and realizing that, that these individuals, that these individuals need to be more united on this front. And, and, and, and, and I think, and I apologize for any of the language I've used that is not plain

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:06:34

Well, well, no, I, I, I think, like, it's just when, when, when when I talk to people on this topic, it's always, like, I think you're going to, I think you're going to get more ground and people understand it better if you can sort of like bring it into more plain speak, even when you say like when you reference things like, well, you know, labor and so forth. What does that even mean? You know, like, like it means like it means money to us today. And so I think if you can like refer to it more as something that we can conceptualize, then people will understand it I

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:07:06

I think, I think the, I think the, I think we should do another episode kind of where we do this in kind of like plain speak. And just kind of discuss it like more. And I think that would be a good, good way and a good method of understanding. Right. So back, yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:07:21

I struggle because I actually think the proletariat exploits the bourgeoisie in a lot of cases, like they have, they don't have to put up any risk. They can swap jobs whenever they want. They they can talk crap about their employees. Like, they have a lot of advantages. They, they, they,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:07:38

And I, and you know, there,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:07:41

the numbers, you know.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:07:42

the risk, the thing is, is we have advantages in numbers, but we don't have advantages in power, you know,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:07:49

It's, it's, it's an ideology based on jealousy and

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:07:52

look at, look at, look at, you say, you say the proletariat has to, had has to take less risk, but you know, the word, there are working class people every day who. who take the risk of sleeping on the street and, and, you know, dying of,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:08:06

not ones that are, well, in a communist system we

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:08:10

I mean, in a, in a communist system, people who, who work wouldn't die. Why would a, in a communist system, if there, if there's food to, to be distributed amongst individuals, then there's no, there's no reason for, for, for individuals to die. The argument, the argument that I'm making is, is more in reference to, to sort of just like an anarchist commune per se, but there's no, there's no reason for an individual to die if there's enough. Food to be

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:08:33

I think people struggle with it for all, all, all of the like common reasons that we've, we've

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:08:38

Yeah, and I, I think a lot of that comes from, from, you know, misunderstanding,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:08:43

it. Right. We don't understand

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:08:45

No, it's not, it's not that, it's

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:08:47

It's always this every time, like every time I get into these conversations, it's always like, well, you just don't understand enough yet. Well, what if, what if, what if in reality you don't understand enough yet, is that

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:08:58

it take, it, I, I think that Judging based on I would say it's I'd say it's highly unlikely, you know, I'd say I'd say and here's the thing Here's the thing here. I'll tell you why i'll tell you why I I I

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:09:11

experience is extremely limited compared to

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:09:13

Yeah, and I don't disagree. It is is very limited to yours. But um in the same in the same aspect, I like to live and breathe the literature I read, you know, not just, not just,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:09:23

I do appreciate that. I like how well read you are, and that's great, but that doesn't, like, make it true.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:09:28

I like to read about theory. I like to read real world analysis. I was a libertarian at first, and then my parents were both like, you're stupid. I kind of read more on to that. And I, I recognized why I didn't believe that afterwards, but not because my parents said it, but because I began to, to read a more understand the historical issues with that. Right. And then I, I became I was more of a Democrat for like when I was in my younger years. Right. And that was more purely based on not, not reading that wasn't based on reading. That was based on. On ideology, right? And that that's where it became reductionary. We, I was just basing what I read. Like it's one thing to say Trump bad, but you have to back up why Trump bad. You know what I mean? You can't just say Trump bad. You can't say Biden good. You can't say all these things you have to actually give. foundational arguments as to why these politicians are good or bad. We have to, and this is something that needs to happen on both. Both policy levels is that the Democrats need to stop championing Biden. They need to stop worshiping him like a God. They need to stop insulting individuals who refuse to vote for him because of harmful policies that he participated in, they need to recognize that part of the reason. That Biden isn't voted for is that he's not giving Americans real real solutions. He's not actually, he's, he's not solving issues by putting a bandage on them, you know, or by putting so by putting a, by putting these, these minimal things and in the same branch, individuals need to stop venerating Trump in the, in the fact that, and I think a lot of the, the veneration and the love for Trump is, is not one that is systemic, but one that is also motivated ideologically, right? Is that It is, it is surface level, right? It is. It is, it is difficult to understand. And here's the thing, right? Is that when I look at something like my dad and I, who he loves Trump, he keeps talking about, he, he refers to the gas prices, the gas prices are, the gas prices are down. He's like, well, I'm voting for the guy who gets me the best gas prices. And I'm like, well, I don't think that is, I don't think that's the primary reason to, to pay for it, to vote for gas. And for someone who has to pay for gas now, the 10 cents that the gas has gone down since the, at least from what I've, my, my viewpoint, is not, is not correlating to, to, to a reason to vote for him specifically for that. And I understand, and I understand where that comes, where that belief comes from, right? So, so there is a, there is an ideological component that drives political forces, right? And I've, I've actually, my part of my AP research paper is, is actually studying this, is that there is an ideological component that Drives an understanding of Of of what we believe and then there is real world facts and analysis that are are foundationally true And while everything is up to some subjective reasoning or everything is there is a chance that everything is false and that we are All in the matrix. There are some ways and methodo

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:12:25

be. Mm

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:12:28

and methodologies that we can arrive to A conclusion that things are possibly true, right? That there are, there are some ways that are a lot more concrete than others overall.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:12:40

Yeah.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:12:42

And that's, that, that, yeah, sorry. Actually, that goes back into what you're saying about the USSR, is that historical analysis, my historical analysis of the USSR, It's beginning to come from different sources, not just one sources. So I'm reading where sources disagree with each other and where the academic consensus is on with historians. And I'm reading between the lines of what historians are saying, right? So a lot of times, even the most biased historians, right? Even the most even the most right wing conservative historians have to face peer review. Right? They have to, they have to say, yo, where are you getting the statistic from? Right? Where are you, is this an accepted body, is this an accepted piece of literature amongst scholars? Right? And one of the things that I noticed is that the, even the most biased authors avoid avoid a usage of incorrectness. Real historians or real accurate historians avoid a, an incorrectness In terms of historic for the USSR and those that do utilize them are ostracized and criticized by other historians and generally not accepted in the academic scholar, body scholar and sorry, body of scholarship and in terms of Russia, in terms of the USSR, they're even the most biased historians admit in part that there are certain things that are, or don't admit in part, but rather, focus on certain issues while discussing While being critical of the USSR, but still being accurate to those things. And those are the people I'm reading from. Those are the people that I'm beginning to understand. The, one of the things I was studying is the Ukrainian Famine, the ho the Hollandarmor, which is one of the more, most discussed things, and one of the things I came to the realization after reading the body of literature on it, is that in part, a lot of those famines were were man made, but they were man made by kulaks, right, which were farmers who, who, like, farmers who, or not farmers, but rather landowners who did not want to give up their land, who did not want to achieve these things who did not want to participate in these things, so, or who, who were revolting against the system, not necessarily Stalin who was doing it, right, and I'm, that's not to say I'm not critical of other aspects of Yeah, I'm not critical of his policies or his or, or the revisionist movements of all, but I realized in another another part of that too, is that the area in Ukraine that the the Hollandamer occurred was susceptible to famines, was susceptible to drought and was susceptible to these other factors. And that's the thing. That's, that's what's so complex about history is that there, when you look at a part, when you look at something like the U

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:15:32

Even if we say there's no deaths under communism, let's just say there's none. They all failed.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:15:38

I would, well, what does failure mean to you?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:15:43

They're not in existence. They've all gone to free market systems. Even China.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:15:49

well, I would

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:15:50

see anybody

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:15:51

yeah, I'd argue, I'd argue that, that Cuba has not gone to a free market system

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:15:58

Okay.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:15:58

or Cuba is not in, Cuba is not going,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:16:00

great. I wouldn't say they're

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:16:02

Cuba is not going in the direction of, of or not going in the direction of a free market system. And they have resisted US imperialism over the past few years.

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:16:12

Okay. Well, I mean,

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:16:15

So I, I wouldn't say,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:16:16

it's a tough, I think if you, if you try to use history as your defense on this, I think it's a tough sell.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:16:22

I

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:16:22

that's just feedback. I think it's just a tough

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:16:24

and that's, that's the thing is that, is that we have to, we have to, we have to, you know, we had to come to these things where, where, and I, and I recommend this to you as well, the audience is that when you want to look into the, when, when you're in opposition to communism, you, you, if, if, And I want to ask you this, right? Do you ever think in reality, right, and I want you to exist in a vacuum, do you ever think there's a reality where you'd ever be a communist, or where you'd ever, if you agreed with the ideas, and you agreed with the historics of it, and you agreed with praxis and application, do you think there's a world where you'd be a communist?

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:16:59

Of course, if I agreed with all that, then I would be a communist.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:17:02

Yeah, exactly. So I, so,

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:17:05

agreeing with it though.

JUAN-PABLO-Pablo_Valenzuela-webcam-00h_00m_00s_839ms-StreamYard: 3:17:06

so here's what I'd say to you. Yeah, I'd say to you in the, I'd say to you in the audience, I'd say, go to your communist friends. Go, go, you, if you are, if you're diametrically opposed to communism, and in a, in a historical sense, right? Go to your communist friends, ask them about the historics of a situation, specifically go to your Marxist Leninist friends, your anarchist friends. They might be a little less helpful because, they, they're, they're opposed to a lot of things. But anyways, but go, go to your Marxist Leninist friends and ask them questions about the historics, right? And then ask them to give you a source or ask them or bring your own sources, you know, and then analyze those sources yourself. Right? Look into, don't, don't just do a self analysis where you're logically analyzing everything. Because although that can be useful, look at, utilize other academic consensus, and when it comes to empirics, formulate a, a, A truth factor to those empirics, right? When it comes to when it comes to ideology, sure. Take into account the body of literature, but formulate your own ideology based on what you're reading and what you're educating yourself on. Right? Formulate your own body ideolog body of ideology based on not your own ex, not just your own experiences. Because if you live only based on your own experiences, then you might become susceptible to ignorant and ignorant of other people's experiences, right? The issues I face as a Latin American man. Are different from the issues of a person might face as a black man, right? So I, I, I might become ignorant just by saying, Oh, well, my way of life is right because this is how I experience life, right? Because other individuals might experience life a little bit differently. So, and that's, that's something that I think is, is, is necessary or common in communist spaces is that they invite a lot of groups of people to communicate their issues and communicate how these things are formulating and there's more of a free exchange of ideas, you know. amongst

JUAN-PABLO-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_270ms-StreamYard: 3:19:05

let's, let's do this. Let's, let's call it let's call it a wrap with that. I think it was a good, good sort of encouragement to reach across the aisle, learn more and research more to make good conclusions. I think that's a great thing to do regardless of which side you're on. So why don't we call the podcast a wrap with that today? We went into a lot of depth today. It was fascinating. I appreciate it. I appreciate You spending time with us in, in, in good faith, of course. And I think we learn, our audience will learn. So I appreciate that a lot.