Programming Lions

Ep.85 The Libertarian Lens w/ Hannah Cox

• Matt Morstad • Episode 85

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In this episode of the Programming Lions podcast, hosts welcome Hannah Cox, the president and co-founder of Based Politics, owner of Athens Media, and a renowned political commentator. The discussion dives into the libertarian ideology, differences between libertarians and conservatives, and Hannah's journey into politics. The conversation also covers topics like the flaws in the public education system, the benefits of homeschooling, and the impact of social media on modern politics. Hannah shares her views on the TikTok ban, the challenges of escaping the two-party system, and her work with the Atlas Society. The episode concludes with a fun rapid-fire question round and valuable advice from Hannah for aspiring young influencers.


Links:

IG: https://www.instagram.com/hannahdanielle_cox6/

TikTok: tiktok.com/@hannahdcox

YT: www.youtube.com/@HannahCox

Website: hannahcox.substack.com


TIMELINE

00:00 Introduction to the Programming Lions Podcast

00:50 Hannah Cox's Political Journey

02:24 Libertarian vs. Conservative Values

05:50 Debating Drug Policies

09:40 Challenges of the Two-Party System

19:18 The Role of Media in Politics

22:39 TikTok Ban and Free Speech

24:58 TikTok Ban and Its Implications

27:01 Content Creation Strategies

30:08 The Realities of Being an Influencer

34:03 Homeschooling Insights and Experiences

40:29 Collaboration with Atlas Society

42:47 Rapid Fire Questions

44:48 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Welcome to the Programming Lions podcast. Today, Hannah Cox joins us. She's the president and co-founder of Based Politics. She's also the owner of Athens Media and a political commentator, a social media influencer, a libertarian, a writer, and an activist whose work has led to dozens of public policy reforms, both on the state and federal level. She's incredibly sharp and well-informed. We got a lot to unpack, so let's get into it.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Hannah Cox, welcome to the Programming Lions podcast. We're excited to have you on. I have been following you and a fan of yours for a long time, and we love your takes on things, and so we thought what a great opportunity to get you on the show and talk about some of this so we can get right into it. All right? All right. So. I've never heard of the word libertarian, so I'm wondering what are the main differences between libertarian and conservative?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

You know, it's really funny. I had also never heard the word libertarian until I was out of college. I didn't go to school to be in politics. It wasn't even on my radar at all, and I'd grown up traditionally Republican and homeschooled. My dad's a Southern Baptist pastor, so I was. Politically minded. I had, you know, been given a lot of instruction and had a lot of strong beliefs, but it just wasn't something I was looking at as a career choice. So growing up, the things that my parents really instilled in me were a staunch belief in free market capitalism. It's. Been the engine that has propelled the world faster than any other mechanism known to man. I mean, it's absolutely astounding what has happened since Capitalism's invention only around 250 or so years ago. And then I also was taught to uphold the values of a limited government, really believing that the government should not be involved in people's lives. That when it does try to get involved, it usually creates more harm than good, and that our Constitution was structured in order. To ensure that people who were in power didn't try to constantly grow that power that was entrusted to them and increase their presence and roles in our life. And then lastly, I was brought up to believe in individual liberty, which is also enshrined in our constitution, and particularly in. Our bill of rights and to believe that people have the right, the God-given right to have free will and to pursue their version of the American dream, so long as they aren't hurting other people. And those are still the values that I believe in above all else, unfortunately, as I started tiptoeing into the political sector and working around the Republican party more and more, and just learning about the actual policies that were on the books and what the politicians were actually doing. While a lot of people under sort of the conservative moniker would claim that they believe those same things, it did not line up in practice very often. And so I was becoming more and more disenchanted with the entire nature of sort of the right wing apparatus in politics. And I had started working on the side for a Second Amendment group, which was very, very conservative, but the guy who ran it, as I was talking to him about what I was seeing and sort of the conflicts I was feeling, he said, I think you might be a libertarian. And I said, no, I don't think I'm, that. That sounds like a liberal. Mm-hmm. Not that he said, no, it's not a liberal, it's, it's very close to conservatism, but. Typically the real difference. I mean, depending on how you define conservatism, I find it to be a bit of a squishy term these days. But de depending on how you define it, if you do you know, define it traditionally, then I would say the main difference between conservatives and libertarians is that libertarians are a bit more stringent when it comes to what we believe a, a limited government means. We think there's a smaller number of areas that the government has a right to exist at in the first place. And then secondarily, I would say that we are. Much more stringent in our application of individual liberty. We really don't think that there is ever a right for the government to come in and tell people what to do or to take away their liberties unless they have done something that hurts another person's property, orano another person's personhood. And so that's really the main difference.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Okay. Okay. Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I think there's a lot of takes that we have are, that are very libertarian minded as well in terms, especially in terms of limited government. But on the conservative side, there is this element of like traditions that we find are important and carry on. And you come from a, a religious background, but obviously, you know, there are time tested things like a monogamous relationship, for example, that, you know, we feel like tied to our real, our say conservative values. And so there are things like that that like tie us to it, but certainly I like your explanation. It helps us, like we gotta probably unpack that a little bit, but that's very good

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

And I would agree with that. You know, I'm a very traditional person. Personally. I am beyond monogamy and married, love my husband, not interested in any other men. And you know, I would say that as a whole, my life is actually pretty. Conservative as far as the values I live out, but that ends where my household ends, right? I don't think that I have the right to insist that other people live that way, even if I think that it's the best way, even if I think that it has harmful negative consequences for them to pick other pathways. I just don't think that I have a right. To mandate that via the government, and especially when you consider what that means, at the end of the day, anytime you have a law put on the books, what you're ultimately saying is that the government has the right to strip your liberties and ultimately even kill you if you violate that law. And so I'm not willing to use those. I'm not willing to take my viewpoints, even though I think they are correct and force them on other people. And I think that's often a debate, a big debate between conservatives and libertarians about where that line is.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. And I, a little monogamy, I have a follow up question on this. Yeah. I'll explain monogamy to you guys. That's basically where you, you are only with your partner. So mom and I are together. I'm not, we're not out. Oh, he does. With other men and women that, that'd be, that'd be weird. In, in our opinion, so, yeah. And so I think one of the catches that I've seen too is something like, let's just say drug use and if somebody wants to use drugs, go ahead. But then what happens is they get addicted and then they need social programs to like get them out of addiction. And so then it, like it by not having a traditional sort of, or a, let's say rules and regulations around it, then it requires these social programs that are tax funded to, to. Help those people out of those situations. So how do you balance that in terms of like, like individual liberty and then pulling people out of things that we know are destructive?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Mm-hmm. I think this is one area that Libertarians as a movement at least, have failed. I think that this is a divide amongst libertarians even. You know, I think there's a difference in people who have a hedonistic approach to these choices and say, who cares? Do drugs. There's nothing wrong with it. It's your prerogative versus people who say, I think drugs are awful and harmful and should be discouraged, that we need to educate people away from them. But I think the negative consequences of. Of criminalizing them are far more significant than the consequences at an individual level of people experimenting with them. And I think that that has played out in this country with the war on drugs. It's been one of the most devastating failures of our government. Not only has it been used as a bit of a Trojan horse, not a. It was a bit, it's a complete Trojan horse that has been used to undermine our liberties and our rights, but it's also a program that we spend vast amounts of money on that we use as an excuse to violate the rights of innocent people. And at the end of the day, all that's happened over the past 50 years or so that we've been pursuing that agenda is that drug addiction has exploded. We've seen far more issues with this. We have people in our streets who are strung out. At this point, we are spending so much money and nothing is getting better. We've created a black market that is attracting. Criminals and the cartels into our spaces and into our communities in order to fill that demand. So I think this actually traces back more to my belief in free market capitalism than it does my stringent application of individual liberty. And what I mean by that is that economic realities are that. Supply will always rise to meet demand, and you cannot get in the way of that, right? If you try to impede that law of economics, all you are ever going to do is create a black market and create all of the crime that comes along with it. So I think what you actually have to do is trust the free market to work. And I think if you were to do that with this example, what you would see first and foremost is that. Drugs would get safer almost immediately. Drugs would get safer. We would not see as many ods because people would know exactly what was in the product they were buying. They would also be able to test the amount that's in it. Sellers reputations would be on the line. If they sold bad products, they could face consequences and liability for that. So it would clean up the entire atmosphere immediately. It would push the cartels and the criminals out. It would bring everything above book and into light. And then I think what we should do, and this is where Libertarians drop the ball, is that we should follow that up. Educational campaigns, I think Americans have actually responded historically very well to educational campaigns. I mean, if you just look at what happened with cigarettes beginning a couple of decades ago, we didn't come in and ban cigarettes. What we did is we started educating Americans and warning them about the harmful effects of cigarettes. And over that time period, usage of those products has completely dropped off. So I think that's what we should focus on. It's difficult because obviously there are lives on the line when we're talking about some of these substances, and the reality is there are negatives. People will still die, but I think it's a bit delusional to think that the war on drugs has prevented people from dying in the first place.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Good take. Limit regulations, but increase education so that people know what good choices might look like, but not necessarily infringe on rights in terms of regulations over them. Is that, yeah, that makes sense. I'm wondering like if there's an escape from the two party system.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Currently, no. There's really not. The two party system has done a lot over the past century or so to entrench itself. You know, you often hear people say Third parties can't win. They're just not popular. That's not the case. I think the vast majority of Americans are not in alignment with where the two parties are. In fact, the data shows it's about 25% of people are like hard line leftists, and 25% of people are hard line on the right. Most people are over here. In the middle. But the reason that third parties have not been able to get off the ground is because of what the two parties have done while in power to prohibit them. So they've passed laws. For example, like in Tennessee where I used to live, in order to get on the ballot as a Democrat or Republican, you only needed 25 signatures. But if you wanted to get on the ballot as anything else, you needed a third of the number of people who voted in the past governor's election to sign, which equaled like 30,000 plus people. And the Libertarian Party Party actually went out and solicited that number of signatures at one point, and the Secretary of State just randomly threw out, you know, a third of them without having to provide any. Explanation. So they do things like that. They do things like blocking third parties from participating in debates. They have passed laws that limit the funding structure for third parties. While we are all made to prop up the two parties, even though they're private entities, our tax dollars are taken and given to those parties to support their primaries, and they can just turn around and rig the primaries however they want, which

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Right. We saw

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

too a few times now.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yep.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

So, we've got a lot to fight, a lot to undo. I don't know. That third party is really a relevant strategy right now. That's one reason I've chosen to focus more on public policy and working with whoever's in office to move things in that way. I think in the long term aside from dismantling those laws, which are tough to do because you need the Republicans and Democrats who are in office. To vote against the laws that are currently protecting them from competition. I think we could try to move things like rank choice, voting, and I really think it comes back to education again, but educating Americans. Americans have got to learn to get off their couch and start paying more attention and look for other candidates who are out there, pay attention to independent candidates and do their research and start to really rally. We could do it through organizing, even though it is a big lift. We saw that happen significantly in the nineties with the third party candidate. Was it Ralph Nadar? I'm gonna mess this up. So I think that, that could happen again, but Americans have to actually do the work. And a lot of them, you know, they don't even know. If you went and asked the majority of Americans right now, I don't think they could name who the vice president is. So they're, they're really not doing their due diligence as citizens to get informed and participate.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

so he can't escape the matrix. It's, I think it's, I think it's pretty difficult. To your point, that's Max. It's so entrenched, the two party system, in fact, like. I said we have, I, I'd say some middle, a lot of like middle ground views on things and we put out takes on this and trying to find common ground, for example, on social media. What we found, and you may have found this'cause you're in this space of social media, is it's the more polarizing views that you have or the more views that bring in a lot of controversy, hate, et cetera. It's like all these social media platforms if you're in the middle, it's almost like, well, we don't know where this person stands really. And so I'm not sure. So we're just gonna kind of move on to somebody where we know. And so that's a little bit disheartening because I do think most people are reasonable, and I think most people can find common ground on issues and we can get something done.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

The human brain works against it. You know? I mean, really if you look at how our minds have developed over time, we want to group, we want to find our tribe. We want to be able to put people in boxes and to not have to think too deeply about things. So I think the reaction I often get is like, wow, you're so nuanced. That's amazing. And it's so outside the box. I haven't thought about things this way, but then. The minute you say something that actually challenges them, there's this recoil, right? Like, I thought you were with me. I thought we were in alignment, and now you're saying something that pushes back and all of a sudden you're an enemy. You're maybe the bad guy. I see you as a threat. So I think some of that happens subconsciously, and it's something people really need to try to fight because. I don't think a whole lot gets better until people do get past some of that and really start banning together. There's so many issues in this country that the left and right should be able to come together on, and unfortunately, I think everything including the algorithm rhythms are pushing people to be more hyper-partisan. They're working to make people more divided and they as a whole are working to make people think that the enemy is the other team versus the actual enemy, which is the government.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Hmm mm-hmm. Yeah, well said. And we're we're toying around with this idea where the boys will take a topic and they'll argue both sides, and we'll do a little fun, fun little YouTube videos on that. And. And that does a couple of things, right? It gives them skill sets on arguing both sides of an issue, whether they agree with it or not, and just get more educated, right? Because there's usually good points on both sides of every topic. And then ultimately, you know, you weigh, weigh those out and make an opinion. But but

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

very good practice to learn. It is to learn how to understand other people's arguments even so that you can better counter them. You know, that's one thing I I see so often happening is that people have a complete straw man mentality of what the other side even believes. They can't even fully articulate it or understand it, and so they have really poor attempts at trying to counter it.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of yat Trump or Yat Biden responses to anything anybody says out there in the ether. It's wild. Do you think Doge will be good for America?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

I mean, it, it can't hurt, I guess, is the good news, right? It can only go in one direction, so I'm hopeful that it will do good things. The messaging I've heard around it. So far has a bit of a rose colored glasses mentality to it. Seems like it's coming from people who've never tried to overturn government laws or policies. So the thing with Doge is it can identify things that need to go, it can highlight actions that need to be taken, but they don't ultimately have the constitutional authority to do something about it. So they have to either get. Congress to pass laws and change things, which is what should happen. Or they've got to extend the executive office's power even more and Trump has to come in and seize control of that, which I wouldn't advocate. You know, even for ultimately in good end goals, I still think we need to do things through the actual legislative protocols laid out for us. So I think it'll be a lift. I think there are very serious, entrenched interests. There's a lot of money. Working to keep many of these things in place, but I do think shining a light at the very least on what's on the books, on what's going on behind the scenes is an empowering thing to do for Americans to better educate themselves and equip themselves. So hopefully that they can apply the pressure on their lawmakers and that we can see things get done. I mean, that's really kind of the linchpin is will Americans do something about it as they are presenting what they find.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Right. In fact, boys, we did a review of the Festivus report. You wanna tell hand what we found? Oh, that was so interesting. There was some weird things there, like really, really weird things. Mm-hmm.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

What stood out to you?

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Well, maybe like I think they spent, there was something around, or in total they spent$1 trillion in waste or in things that are not necessary. Right. Including interest on our death. Yeah. Which is the largest on one, but yeah, that was insane. I forget what it was, it was like an$800 million truck loan. It's like a bunch of trucks, and then they just failed immediately. Oh, spinning kittens. Yeah. Spinning kittens max. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Until they barf trans monkeys. Yeah. A lot of interesting stuff. No, that was, no, that was like two years ago last year. Oh, that was, yeah, that last year. That was last year. Mm-hmm.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

There's a lot of, I work with a group called the White Coat Waste Project that works to end taxpayer funded animal torture. And so we have been involved with providing a lot of those FOIAs and reports that are in the Festus report and ran Paul in an incre incredible job highlighting, that and all the other abuse going on. But it is, it, I feel like Covid kind of blew the lid off of this. A lot of people were not aware of me either until that happened. Just how much of our. Funding was going towards these kinds of very risky experiments that are animal torture when you boil down what they're actually doing in those labs and it's created a really cool coalition. Speaking of things right and left can come together on, that's really been gaining traction. So that's one of the things that I've loved getting my hands on lately.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Oh, good. Glad to hear that. Rand Paul, I think he, he's done a great job and he's the OG of Doge, I think in, in some ways he's been highlighting a lot of this for a while, and so I. I agree with you. I think it's gonna be very difficult. A lot of people are like, oh, doge is gonna like highlight all this stuff and we're just gonna zap, zap it out of the budget, but it has to be passed by Congress. And so they've got a huge task ahead of'em and they've gotta have bi bipartisan agreement and they've gotta have legislation get passed. And boy, those things are really complicated.'cause then they wanna weave in 50 other things in there for their buddies and their lobbyists and all this. And that's a whole other. Issued potentially unpacked is, is is these crazy bills and why we can't have single simple bill legislation. But we're hopeful that Doge is effective. However yeah, I think they have a, yeah, they have a big hill to climb. It's different when you own the company. Like you, you are the sole owner of the company and you can like enact whatever you want, but Elon's gonna have a harder time, I think, with the government. So we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Same. Same. And we need it because the, you know, the deficit keeps increasing. And I, per personally, I think about these two young gentlemen who are dealing with the, the the residuals of inflation and continued inflation and how expensive it's gonna be to live or even have the same lifestyle that we have now in their generation. It's very concerning if we don't get it under control. Next question, you are basically the owner of a few companies, kind of, it is based podcast and it's also Athens Media or something like that. So can you tell us like about those things?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

So base Politics is actually a nonprofit that I've been running for the past three years alongside Brad Palumbo, who's another political commentator. And we both sort of came up through the ranks together and felt that there really needed to be a media apparatus for the libertarian liberty movement that was. Focused on new media, we really believed that traditional media would continue to die out, that platforms like TikTok and YouTube and Instagram would become ever more dominant. And that increasingly younger people want to get their news and their information and really a lot of their opinions from influencers and personalities that they follow versus organizations. And that really didn't exist when we looked around. And so we created this and have been working on behalf of our donors who have been absolutely incredible. Credible to help grow our platforms and put out content that can move the needle that's both engaging and entertaining, but also informative. And that kind of packs in subliminally sometimes the underlying ideology that we're trying to progress. And then my company, Athens Media, is a for-profit company that's totally separate, but I have come out of the world of lobbying and organizing and a lot of grassroots work. And the media is very, very important. That's one thing people need to know if they want to pass a piece of legislation or kill a bad piece of legislation, is that having the media on your side is often vitally important in order to whip up the grassroots support that you need to put pressure on lawmakers so that they do the right thing. When you're not lobbying on behalf of a corporation, you don't have, millions of dollars to come in and donate. You have to have not only the facts on your side, you've gotta really whip up a lot of moral support in order to get lawmakers to do the right thing, because you always have a lot of money fighting against you on the other side. So. In doing that work over a period of couple of years, it really became apparent to me that a lot of the organizations in our movement don't have that ground game. And especially as media transitions to new media, they don't always have the infrastructure they need to ring the alarm and whip up that support. And so I work with a lot of organizations who are continuing to do the. The work on the ground, you know, they're at the state capitols or they're at the, the National Capitol and they're lobbying and they're organizing and they're meeting with lawmakers and I work as a go-between to get their message out about what's happening around the legislation they're focused on, to educate people in the grassroots, to encourage them to contact their lawmakers, to shine a spotlight on what lawmakers are doing. That's one thing that can also be a nice carrot and stick. A lot of them are used. To just operating without really any attention on what they're doing, because the mainstream media doesn't cover it. You know, if you have a backroom deal where the speaker of the house is selling out a school choice bill, because he struck some deal with an education company that doesn't get covered by the mainstream media. And that's something that I've been able to do via content. So I do a lot of work with that. I do a lot of work to train other people who are interested in doing this kind of work. Both organizations comms departments, and also people on an individual level teaching them how to. Build brands, how to grow their social media and how to use content to actually make an impact in the political sphere.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

How did you feel about like when TikTok was banned for a

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

I felt badly about it.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

you mentioned that.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, I actually, base politics was a plaintiff suing the government and our lawsuit went all the way up to the Supreme Court a couple of weeks ago. We were working alongside the Liberty Justice Center who took on the case pro bono as our lawyer. So we sued on free speech grounds. It was really. A great thing to be a part of. I have done a lot of work behind the scenes on other people's cases in the pro bono economic liberty space. This was my first time in the other seat being a plaintiff. So that was an interesting experience. But it was, even though we didn't win, I think it was an important lawsuit to fight. I think the TikTok ban is unquestionably a violation of the first amendment of free speech. I think the government's excuse that they're doing this. Because of national security as utter hogwash, they've never even remotely attempted to prove that there are national security threats. In fact, their briefs that they submitted in response to us in the courts were completely redacted. We sold t-shirts with their briefs'cause they were so hilarious, like just blacked out the entire thing. Their whole argument. For why it was so dangerous and sensitive. And I think if it actually were a national security threat, then they would be going after all of the other Chinese based apps like Team U or Sheen. You know, there's plenty of apps out here that are collecting Americans data and they are not attacking them. So I think this is unquestionably a matter of. Free speech and getting control of tiktoks algorithm, which I think is very powerful. I've, I've had a great bit of success being able to ring the alarm about legislation on there to educate other people about politics. And I think that the government's running scared right now. This is one of many bills we've seen going after tech and going after free speech. And they'll tell you it's to keep you safe. Always. That's what it's. You know, supposed to do is to keep you safe, or it's to keep the kids safe, but it's because they can't control the narrative anymore. There used to be three, four newspapers and they would tell them what the story was, and then the newspapers would cite them as the experts, and that was what the American people got. Fed. Apps like TikTok have completely shattered that control that they've had, and they're desperate to get it back.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Well, what do you think of a future for TikTok

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

I think it's very much up in the air. I'm curious to see the approach Trump is going to take. I think it's encouraging that he has flipped on this matter. I, I think that that's a good thing when people can recognize that they were wrong and change their tune, and so he certainly has come. I. Around. I think he is going to try his best to strike a deal. The reason I don't really know exactly what that will look like is that the law was written very explicitly. It was very much tailored at TikTok and at Bite Dance. It was pretty, it was written to make sure there were not loopholes intentionally, and it's been upheld by the courts. So the only thing I can really think that he can do is to pressure Congress to pass a bill, overturning it, and, and crafting a different infrastructure for by dance. I, I. Find it implausible to think he's going to be able to strike a deal to get them to sell a part, a portion of their company just due to the intellectual property around their algorithm and due to some of the laws in China that regulate their ability to have different ownership models. So it's very much up in the air. I'm, I'm, I can't wait to see what happens. And, you know, Trump is a deal maker, so if, if he's able to get that done, incredible. But it seems like there's few options on the table.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, well, there's a lot of people that are making their living on TikTok these days, and so this could be a huge impact to a lot of people who are in the influencing and creator world out there. If people want to use an app that even if they think it's spying on'em, it seems like that could be their choice. Like the, They can use it if they want to. They take the risks. It's another example of like government saying, we know best and we'll decide for you what is best. It makes me, just, reminds me of like the horrors of the Patriot Act in a lot of ways. Using a horrible time to justify spying on Americans. And so, anyway.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

and you know, I've seen some people grave dancing on influencers and saying, oh, they'll have to get a real job now. And I don't get that mentality at all. I don't make my money as an influencer on TikTok, but I applaud those who do. I think that's incredible. It's provided a lot of economic. Freedom for people, but aside from just influencers, there's a lot of Americans who are just making supplemental income that they've used to get through the past four years, and there's a lot of people who have built their businesses on TikTok who have built their marketing strategies around its platform. So we are talking about an economic impact for millions of Americans, and I think that's a very serious consequence that people are taking a bit lightly.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yep. Agreed. So back to your podcast, right? You know that stuff and in the Athens media anyway. So how do you, dad really likes the stuff that you do on your platform. So I'm ans I'm asking this question for him. What do you, or how do you come up with these crazy ideas and stuff that you talk about on your channel? I don't know if they're crazy ideas. Well, not, it's crazy. Basically. Like how do you come up? Well, right. How do you, yeah. How do you come up with your content?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, I think the, the, the most important thing for being a content creator is actually the same thing I used to say. When people ask me about being a writer, you need to consume a lot. If you wanna be a good writer, you need to be an avid reader. If you wanna be a good content creator, you need to consume a lot of content, which I have to admit is. Sometimes my least favorite part of my job because spending a lot of time on social media can be very negative. It's not always the best for your mental health.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yep.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

But I think it's important if you really wanna have your thumb on the pulse of what Americans care about, about what they are currently discussing in order to be able to better relate to them in order to be able to help them connect those concerns or those feelings to public policy matters. That's really. Very essential, and it's also essential for the algorithm on each platform that you sort of know what the conversation is that's going on. If you go on YouTube, and most people on YouTube today, for example, are talking about the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni lawsuit because his legal team just released some new footage that completely debunks the claims she made against him. In her lawsuit. And so this is, you know, all the rage on YouTube. You could probably talk about something else, but it's not going to do as well on that platform that day, as if you talked about that. And so it's smarter to talk about that and tie it into political things that you care about, or cultural things or whatever your niche is. And that's true across, every single platform. If you log on to TikTok. The dominant conversation is often very different than whatever the dominant conversation is on Twitter. And if you try to take the conversation that's happening on Twitter and talk about on TikTok, it's like you're speaking a foreign language. People. Users on there have no clue what you're discussing, and they're gonna scroll past it.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. We've got a presence on all the, social media platforms. Content will do Differently, on all of them. And so the strategy of just putting out content that you think is gonna do well and spreading it across all of them simultaneously, it doesn't really work. You've probably seen this yourself. So yeah, it's I

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

yeah, it's few and far between unless there's like a just dominant news story of the day that is saturating every platform. You know, something like the inauguration or like I had one kind of random video, but the day the Chevron deference got overturned last summer by the Supreme Court. Everybody was searching it because nobody except for us weirdos knew what it was. And so all of a sudden it's in the news and everybody's looking it up. And I had been patiently awaiting that, that decision for some time and was really excited about it. So I made a video, put it across every platform and it, you know, it went haywire everywhere I. Because of that, the nature of that day. But most of the time it's a lot more customized. And so this is one reason I tell people, especially organizations that I work with, or even people who want to be influencers, there's often this perception that it's just this fun, chill job. You know? You just jump on, make a TikTok here and there, and there's so much that goes into it behind the scenes, it's

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

mean, like I've seen dad, dad works day in and day out 24 7. It's a lot of work. It's a lot like if you're doing a podcast and you're doing short form material, depending on how much they're polished or I. Or how professional they are. It's a lot of work. And if you're doing it yourself, like if you have unlimited loads of money to, you know, outsource everything to get done, that's one thing, but it's a lot, especially if you're starting, you know,

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. And especially starting now, I think when I started really focusing more on media, it was around 2020. This whole world was kind of just getting off the ground and now it's, I. Everywhere and everybody wants to be an influencer and there's so much more attention on it. I also think it's gotten easier in some ways. Making videos is a whole lot easier today than it was in 2020. I remember when I first started recording my YouTube show, my old YouTube show, the initial based podcast. I didn't know how to video edit, so I had to get it in one take and we're talking. 40 minute videos, you know, where I just had to be perfect and that if I didn't, I had to do it over. So now there's cap cut. There's so many different softwares that you can use. Even, you know, apps like TikTok have made it a lot easier to create videos and short form content, much more expediently so you don't have to have that technical knowledge which is great. It's great for people like me who don't have it, but it's also made it far more competitive because so many more people are trying to access that same field.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Right, right. We found that too in terms of like just editing software, using AI to help with different things. It's hugely beneficial. It's cut our processing time down a lot, and then that allows us to. Build more content. So yeah, I definitely. Feel for people who are out trying to get started.'cause we've been through that over the last year. part of why we did this, I'll just share with you, is this day and age, it's so important to create a brand. And just about every Gen Z or Gen Alpha kid that you talk to, you say, what do you want to do when you grow up? And they'll say, what boys? Be a YouTuber. You wanna be a YouTuber? Yeah. And so my boys told me this and I come home and I'm watching them, you know, scrolling YouTube and I thought, well, okay, we need to turn this model. From consumption into production. So we decided to take some ideas and start creating stuff and we went through, you know, different sort of avenues. And this is kind of, this is sort of where we've lined up now, but, but, ultimately we're learning skills. We're building entrepreneurial spirit because we're seeing how hard it is to build a business and get it up and going. And we've had some success, we've had some setbacks, and that's all part of the learning process and we get to do it together, which is super cool. So,

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, this is what caught my attention. I loved the entire premise of it. I love to see young people, seizing the reins, working to learn real skills. I would, like I said, I was homeschooled, so that was a big part of my upbringing too, and I think it's something that we're really losing in society. I've noticed this, you know, as around younger people, that they're just not being taught. Just to get started, just to go try things, just to really get their hands dirty and, and, and start something new. So I love that you guys are doing this. You, you're both excellent interviewers, very well poised, and I I, if you get that kind of foundation when you're this age, like I can't even imagine how far ahead you'll be when you're actually launching into the world with a career.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Thank you. Yeah. Well, and that's, and that's the idea. And we've learned other skills, like Will's got an eBay store, we set up a, oh, I love eBay. A print to order merch store. Now we're not making money on merch. No, I don't think anybody, not many people anyway, make money on merch. But we, we set that up. But just the process of setting up a website, which will did most of, and then a print, a print file integration. And so now we've got this like, and none of these things cost money. They just take time. But you learn so much about. The process and all those things can carry forward into what, whatever they end up doing in life, which will hopefully be grand.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Exactly.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

yep. But now you mentioned, this is a good segue into the next question about homeschooling. I'm wondering if you recommend it to most kids. Yeah. we're actually thinking of it a little bit, so

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

I think it's not a one size fits all answer. I advocate strongly for it being on the, on the table for people. I actually had a video I think last week on my YouTube discussing a lot of the people who were trying to. Malign homeschooling or fearmonger people about it, or tell parents that you're not certified, you're not qualified. I think, you know, there's a lot of people who are very invested in keeping that off the table for people because they want people to stay in the public school system because it makes a lot of adults a lot of money. But what it doesn't do is position most kids for success. In society in the long run. So I am very anti-public schools to be candid. I know there are some exceptions, there are some good ones out there. But as a whole, I think the public school system is structured to indoctrinate people. It's meant to condition you to having to ask permission to being at a nine to five at a desk, you know, doing exactly what you're told, staying in line with the rest

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Obedient factory workers. Ugh.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

and not to mention the curriculum that I think is often meant to indoctrinate people to a mentality that benefits the government. You know, they're not really teaching people critical thinking skills or logic. They're not teaching them. To push back. So I have a lot of problems with the system. That being said, I very much do understand and recognize that homeschooling is not viable for everybody, and I did not homeschool straight through. So I was homeschooled just at home with my mom and siblings through fifth grade. And then I lived in Louisville, Kentucky, predominantly growing up, which is one of the states that first legalized homeschooling. So. It has a huge infrastructure that has built up, it's really far ahead of some other states, and they had a lot of schools that were like supplementary type institutions. So through sixth through eighth, from sixth to eighth grade, I went to what was called a cottage school, which was super prominent and popular in Louisville. You would wear a uniform, you would go to a full class schedule two days a week. You would take your test, you would have instruction in the class. You would then be given assignments for the other three days a week. You would come back, your teacher would grade those. So it provided a lot more social interaction. It took a lot of the work off of my mom's plate, particularly once I was getting older and the subject matters were getting denser and a little bit less within her area of expertise. So that was a really good medium for me. And then when I got to ninth grade, I went to private school. Ninth and 10th grade, and then we moved to South Carolina. My grandfather, my mom's dad was unfortunately dying. He got cancer and so we moved to South Carolina for her to be closer to him, and she dumped us all in public school. Like she was just drowning, you know,

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

seen it all.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

of him.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. You've seen it all. That sounds like you've had to assimilate to a lot of different types of schooling, and so that's interest. I,

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Oh, I got to see all of it. And I will say the public school system was as expected, just academically very far behind where I was at. You know, by the time I got there, I coasted through because they were doing things I'd done in eighth, ninth grade, and it was pretty easy. There's benefits to all of them though. I mean, certainly I think it's important if you homeschool for parents to be proactive about getting in a very big homeschool group, being involved with that community, making sure the kids have access to sport leagues or to drama, and my mom was just excellent about that. We were never unsocialized at all. Not only did I have three siblings. And a large church that my dad was a pastor of, but also we were constantly doing things with that group. So I, I personally loved homeschooling. You will be shocked how little time you have to spend on school. It really is crazy how quickly you can move through the curriculum when you're not held back by the rest of the class and get that one-on-one attention and the ability to.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

boys? Yeah, that's, that's actually why we're thinking of it, because I wouldn't necessarily say I am a genius, but like

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

I could

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

a lot of the people, like a lot of the time spent in our class is on things that I am not interested in, and I don't think we, I need.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Mm-hmm.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

we learned Latin for like three years straight. I'm not, I mean like Latin is an interesting language, but I think Spanish or something would be more better to learn'cause you know it in a lot more places. And also like, who do eats math? Like what Max, what what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna veto that one Max. But anyway, there's like a lot of time I feel like that. Are spent in school that's unnecessary and that we could spend for much more useful things. We've, we've like broken down their day a little bit. I'm like, okay. And in class, like how much time do you spend actually learning versus there's disruptive kids in class like you, you mentioned, I. And a lot of things, they have to go over material again, even though some kids retained it and some didn't. That causes a lot of challenges in terms of productive time. If you already get this, then you can move on to the next thing and keep, you know, going forward. And then also just being able to spend time on things that you are particularly interested in.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

A lot of potential to lean into your interest, you know, and figure out, and I think that's, that's a huge time suck too, is by the time you're in ninth, 10th grade, you probably have a pretty good idea. I mean, I knew I was not going to be a mathematician, so I didn't need to take geometry. There was absolutely no reason for me to be doing that. I. Whereas I would've benefited significantly from leaning more into other subjects and, and focusing where my talents were pointing me. And I just think you get so much more capability to customize your education and to, to spend your education time where you want. You know, I think that's the other thing. You can do school from anywhere. You can travel when you want to. You can fit it in in the day where it makes sense. And I love that. And lastly, I'll just add, I love the time with my family. I'm very close with my siblings, even as an adult. And I, people have always asked, you know, why are you guys so close?'cause I think. Between me and my youngest brother, there's eight years, but we're thick as thieves and it, I really do credit the homeschooling part of that to that closeness because you just get so much time with one another and it's awesome.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Right, right. Well, the homeschool data is like hockey stick right now. It's going through the roof and I think a lot of people are waking up to this and a lot of people that are able to work from home is maybe a part of it. And also there's so many great tools out there now. It's like when I grew up and we didn't, I have the internet, I'm old. So now though, there's apps and great Online tech that you can get into. Social groups that you can get into and be a part of in your local community. So it's something we're considering, but we're at a charter school and yeah, we'll see how it goes. Not fully public, but not fully private. Mm-hmm. I wanna ask you about, you've done a lot of collaborations with Atlas Society and I love their channel, I became obsessed with Ayn Rand. Right around 20 19, 20 20. I read Atlas Shrugged when I was younger or part of it, I didn't remember that much. I think it didn't register that much. And then I. I read it again during the onset of Covid and so much clicked for me. I don't wanna say life changing, but I was like, wow, this is like, this is the model. And, and then I got obsessed and I read all of her other books and works, maybe not all, but a lot of them, and watched, videos of her interviews and just was really fascinating about it. Could you tell us a little bit about like how you got involved with them and what your work is like with them?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, so I also meant Ayn Rand fan girl, I love that you reread her 2019 to 2020. What a time to be re-upping her work.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

yeah, exactly.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

always, it always feels like she was a fortune teller, but especially during that time period that's I. That's wild. So I got I guess introduced to the Atlas Society, just kind of through the broader Liberty movement. You know, we are, we're kind of a small circle, a small club of a hundred or so organizations of people who are working in this space. So you have a lot of overlap and are at similar conferences. But Jag, who runs the Atlas Society is just. An absolute queen and an icon and kind of a Ayn Rand in her own making. And she's been a excellent mentor to me and a huge champion of my work. And I just so appreciate her leadership and her vision. And she's just absolutely crushed it since taking over the Atlas Society. They're really good at educating people on the. Theory, I think they have their feet on the ground. They, love Ayn Rand, but will admit her faults. And she did have a lot of faults and they I think strike that balance really well. They especially stand out because they're so great at new media. I mean, they really have done such a good job on

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Their posts are brilliant. I think their posts are really, really brilliant. They're well done, they're well crafted, they look great, and they just like, when you look at it, you can't help it sort of go yep.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Yeah,

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

So,

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

game, they've got their ground game going, and they're very, very smart and I think they do an excellent job. So I, I don't work for them, but I have partnered with them on their Instagram series over the past year or so, and gotten to interact with their audience a good bit, which I just absolutely love.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Great. Great. Okay. With that, Hannah, we are gonna move into a section that is very fun, as you can tell. We already rapid fire. Oh, all right. Okay. It's around eight questions. You just gotta answer them as quick as possible with no explanation. What is the coolest invention in your lifetime?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

The iPhone

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Would you rather dive to a great white shark or flaming hot volcano?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

flaming hot volcano.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

If social media was banned tomorrow, what would you do for work?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Oh man, that sounds nice. Some days I think I'd go back into lobbying full-time.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Oh, okay. Excluding us three. Who is your idol?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Ooh. Well I rand's fresh on my mind right now, so I guess I'll throw her out there.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Okay. All right. If you had one executive order as president, what would it be?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Single page bills or single line item bills,

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

I love that. I don't even know what that is. I love that. If you had a superpower, what would it be?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

reading minds.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Reading though. You might not like what you reads

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Yeah.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

All right. And our

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

killed the cat.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. And our final question is, have you ever been stuck in a bathroom stall without toilet paper?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

I'm sure I have. But what sprung to my mind is I've been stuck in a bathroom stall period twice, like floor to ceiling doors that will not open. No matter what, and I freaked out immediately and one time I didn't have my phone, so I was like banging on the door, screaming for help. And fortunately, some people heard me and save me, but I never go to the bathroom without my phone nowadays.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

That's wild. And that concludes rapid fire. Okay. So that, that, was interesting. That wraps it up.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

It was hard not to give explanations. That was the hardest part.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, usually is. That's normally the hardest part for everyone. Well, Hannah, how do people best get connected with you and your work and your organizations?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

So the best way is actually to head to my YouTube. That's where I'm making daily shows for the Base Politics podcast. They can find me at Hannah Cox on YouTube. They also can look up the podcast on any audio platforms under the Base Politics podcast. And I'm under Hannah D. Cox on most social media platforms.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Okay, we'll drop those into the description. So with that, we can wrap up the podcast. Any final words of advice for these two young gentlemen?

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

I think you guys have it handled. You're crushing it, so congratulations. Keep your nose to the ground. You guys are absolutely killing it and you're doing all the right things, so I think you're gonna be set up for success.

HANNAH_COX-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_311ms-StreamYard:

Thank you. Thanks so much. We appreciate that. Thank you for coming on. Bye.

HANNAH_COX-Hannah-webcam-00h_00m_00s_313ms-StreamYard:

Thanks for having me.