Programming Lions

Ep.87 Exploring Trump Derangement Syndrome w/ America’s Psychiatrist, Dr. Lieberman

• Matt Morstad • Episode 87

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In this episode of the Programming Lions podcast, Dr. Carole Lieberman, a renowned forensic psychiatrist and bestselling author, joins the hosts to discuss her extensive background and controversial topics. Known as 'America's Psychiatrist,' Dr. Lieberman has been involved in high-profile cases and is an authority on psychological trauma, terrorism, and media politics. She shares her journey into psychiatry, influenced by Sigmund Freud and her time studying under Anna Freud. The conversation delves into her latest work on Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS), its symptoms, and potential treatments, as well as the impact of wokeness in psychiatry and healthcare. Dr. Lieberman also touches on her book 'Lions and Tigers and Terrorists, Oh My!' which offers guidance for parents on discussing terrorism with children. Tune in for an engaging discussion filled with bold insights and clinical expertise.


X: https://x.com/DrCaroleMD

Website: www.drcarole.com

Lions and Tigers and Terrorists: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=lions+and+tigers+and+terrorists&crid=335JN98V0LIJD&sprefix=lions+tigers+and+terr%2Caps%2C181&ref=nb_sb_ss_p13n-pd-dpltr-2-ranker_1_21


TIMELINE

00:00 Introduction to Dr. Carole Lieberman

00:56 Dr. Lieberman's Background and Career

05:04 Discussing Social Issues and Psychoanalysis

06:20 The Impact of Social Contagions

12:18 Trump Derangement Syndrome Explained

22:29 Challenges in Psychiatry and Higher Education

30:20 Conclusion and Future Discussions

Welcome to the Programming Lions podcast. Today, Dr. Carol Lieberman joins us, MD and a board certified Beverly Hills forensic psychiatrist, a bestselling author, a media commentator, widely known as America's psychiatrist. She has served as, as an expert witness in dozens of high profile cases, including the Gabby Petito civil trial. She's also recognized as an authority in. Psychological trauma, terrorism, mass shootings, media politics, and more. A three time Emmy honored TV host and frequent guest on major news networks. Dr. Lieberman brings a clinical expertise and fearless insight to today's most controversial cultural and political topics, and so we have some spicy questions for her. Let's get into it.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Dr. Carol Lieberman, thank you for joining our show today. We're excited to have you on. We got a lot of interesting topics to get into with you, but before we do that, could you give us a little bit about your background education, what kind of work you've done and currently do?

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

It's great first of all that your kids are on. That's a whole, adds a whole new dimension. So let me tell you that when I was eight years old, that is when I decided that I wanted to be a doctor. And when I was a teenager and I, I decided I wanted to be a doctor because I read a book about the first woman doctor in America and how she was helping people and so on. Then when I was a teenager I read a book Freud's, you know, Sigmund Freud. He was the number one psychoanalyst and father of psychoanalysis. And I read hi, one of his books called An Interpretation of Dreams. And that's how I decided I totally connected with that book and what he was saying. And that's how I decided that I wanted to be a psychiatrist. After that, so I went to college and I was, I went to medical school. And then I did some medical sub internships and internships, and then I did a psychiatry residency at NYU Bellevue in New York.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

okay.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

And then when I moved to California, I mean, I'm from New York, born and bred, and when I moved to California. I got a Master's in Public Health on top of my md.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Okay.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

what I do, I do a lot of different things. Of course I treat patients. I also am a forensic psychiatrist, meaning that I'm like one of the experts that they call in a trial, you know, a criminal trial or a civil trial, and I analyze whoever the person, like if it's the defendant for a criminal case or you know, whoever the people are, are involved in that. And I do a lot of television and a lot of radio. I have a host, a podcast, two podcasts. One is called Dr. Carol's Couch, and the other is called the Terrorist Therapist Show. And I. So when I, because when I was going to medical school, when I decided to be a psychiatrist, I didn't just wanna be the kind of psychiatrist that sits in the office and sees patient after patient. I wanted to be able to reach more people, to help more people. And so it was always my plan from before I went to medical school to to do media, you know, to also talk about these different issues in the media so I could reach more people.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Mm-hmm.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

That's the shortest.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Wow. Okay. Well you've done a lot. Yeah. Like that's,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Oh, I've, oh, I left out, I left out something important. I've written four books, I'm a bestselling and or, award-winning author and I was asking about terrorists before we started because my most recent book is called Lions and Tigers and Terrorists. Oh my, how to Protect Your Child in a Time of Terror, and what the first half of the book is for grownups. To how to talk to kids about terrorism and what to do different activities to make a child more resilient. And because of the things coming up in the world, notably, there are gonna be more terror attacks. And then the second half of the book is a children's book. It has pictures of everything you ever wanted to know about terrorism, but we're afraid to ask. And, you know, kids really do wanna know these things. Parents don't realize necessarily that kids are aware of a lot. And so they really need to express their feelings and to understand why. Like, why do, why do terrorists wanna kill us? That kind of thing.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Right. That would be super interesting. So we'll definitely have to get a copy of that and we'll drop the link for your, your books into the description so people can check it out and look at your work there. And, and I think we'll have to dive into some of that maybe here in a bit in terms of takes that you might have or advice for parents on. How to, you know, coach their kids through what's what's going on in the world. So that is really cool. Okay, well we've got a lot to get into. So boys, without further ado, where do you wanna start? So, I'm starting off with this, right? What is your method for like, for kinda like assessing and breaking down social issues that come, that come to you?

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Well, yes. You mean things that are going on in the world?

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Basically, you know, I was talking about how I decided to be a psychiatrist when I read Freud's Interpretation of Dreams. I, in my residency training as a psychiatrist and so on, I have studied more you know, been supervised by psychoanalyst. And I even went to London, lived in London for a while to study under Anna Freud, Freud's daughter. This was right before she died. It was an amazing opportunity, an amazing experience. She was amazing. And so I have the way that I look at my patients, the way that I look at being an expert witness and putting that case into some kind of perspective for jurors and the way that I look at social issues. It's all, all from a psychoanalytic point of view. So I, I try to understand why things are happening and what impact they will have on people, on the why people are doing certain things and what impact it will have on the rest of us

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

So what are your thoughts on social contagions

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

For the most part they are bad, so bad social contagions spread faster than good social contagions, unfortunately. Some examples are on TikTok, the stupid challenges that TikTok has, those things spread like wildfire and they're very dangerous. You know, things like, I know, I know you two are too smart to fall for any of these challenges, but you probably have seen them. There was a challenge about licking toilet seats. You know, you're supposed to do these things and then take video of it or photos of it and post it online or post it on TikTok. And so licking toilet seats doing a thing where, where you sort of try to strangle yourself, choke yourself, and and then you're supposed to stop before you actually die, it's very dangerous because you can't necessarily stop yourself before you've already been made unconscious and then, and then you die. Oh, you know, there have been a number of cases, maybe you've heard about these in the news where children or teenagers, it's not just little kids. It's like to even teenagers do these things to get attention on TikTok or on other social media. And they've, they've died, you know, I mean, some parents have sued TikTok and so on. But that doesn't bring their child back. So that's an example of I. Bad contagion. What's an example of good contagion? One good contagion in my opinion is the excitement that was generated for this election. By Trump with the MAGA hats and the maga rallies and just the MAGA promises of things he was going to do to make America great again. I went to the inauguration, by the way, so I obviously am a big Trump fan fan. The reason why it was good was because the country was really going downhill during the Biden years. And people were, lots of people were very depressed. There were polls that measured how the country was feeling, and the polls showed that most people were depressed, were thinking that the country was going in the wrong direction. And so the reason why I say it was good contagion was because it was really a lift for the country. I.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. Yeah. Well, even like, continuing from that, like depression or something I think it's like PEW or Pew. Studies have shown that liberals are most likely to suffer from like a mental health and low happiness. Like why? And basically how can you explain this? Hmm. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe you've seen this. I think a p pew research was study was done and it showed pretty, like, pretty dominant like that liberals, liberals are gonna be more, and in particular liberal women are less happy, have higher mental health issues than conservative women. How do you unpack that?

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

It's interesting that liberal women are having a lot of trouble finding boyfriends and husbands because, like on the dating apps or even just in real life, if they meet somebody and they find out that the person is a, is a Republican or likes Trump they don't wanna go out with him. They have run out of men to date. Liberal females are angry. It's hard to, they they, they're just not happy with themselves and with life. They are typically people who are the protesters, you know, they were, they're the ones who knocked down the, the statues, for example. You know, they're the

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

SWAs. Stick on your Tesla.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Yes. Or painter or we're part of the protest for BLM Black Lives Matter. They're very, they're activists now. It's good to be an activist in a positive way, but they are mostly activists in a, in a tear down America kind of way.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

And so that is, you know, that makes them unhappy that just they kind of, they, in other words, they kind of have to be angry and unhappy to do protests and to do all kinds of things against America. I don't know if you, a few boys are familiar with Norman Rockwell. He was a painter and he painted if not your father will show you some paintings that he did. He was a very famous painter and he painted primarily scenes of Americana. Of America, America in the good days, you know, in the fifties, in the forties, I, I don't remember the exact years, but it was, you know, around that time so there would be pictures, paintings of fathers taking their sons fishing, for example. Or mother's cooking with their daughters or kids sitting at the at an ice cream stand, you know, in a, in a candy store. Don't think we have many candy stores these days, there were all these positive kinds of woke families sitting around Thanksgiving dinner, these positive kinds of things that was, that were the backbone of America, you know, that is what being in American was. Lots of pictures of the flag, all of that. And so, so that there used to be at least one, if not more paintings of Norman Rockwell in the White House, and Biden took down the painting or paintings and put up I don't remember what, like a picture of himself or something, but the, but it was a very symbolic. Move because he, he was taking down, he didn't want us to remember America in that good way. And so he was, he replaced it with what, it doesn't matter what he replaced it with, it's just that he took down these paintings. He, so that we wouldn't remember what America was in its best days and we wouldn't wanna have that again. So, you know, I thought that

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

of like a racing his like racing parts of history. It's a sort of Orwellian,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Yes, yes.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Social contagions from a, like a psychiatric view in, in your experience I have to ask about Trump derangement syndrome. Is it real and can it be treated?

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Funny you should ask. What a coincidence. I am in the process. I'm finishing off. My proposal for Trump Derangement Syndrome to be included in the diagnostic and statistical manual that the American Psychiatric Society, American Psychiatric Association puts out every, five years or so. We've known about you. I'm sure you guys have heard about Trump derangement

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

yes. We experience, we experience it every day too. Yes. Mm-hmm.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

So, but, but it was, it was around when Trump was president the first time. Okay. But now it's a lot worse. So I was talking about Trump derangement syndrome syndrome in sort of a general way back when he was first president, but now it is much worse. And I will tell you. My definition, Trump derangement Syndrome is an irrational, quasi psychotic hatred of anything Trump resulting in rage and over the top efforts to destroy him and his work.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

You wrote a whole definition on it. You wrote that.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Yes,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

That's pretty good. That should be in the dictionary. Yeah, that seems, well, we might have a little bias because we feel like we've been on the receiving end of Trump derangement syndrome because we espouse a lot of conservative and patriotic values on our channel, and we were advocates for Trump during the election and today, but, and he's not perfect, but it is wild to, to me, you don't even have to say anything about Trump. You'd be talking about a policy, the border. How do we secure the border? And then they'll say, Hey, did you hear about Trump? Trump wants to date his daughter. And I'm just like, what? Like how did this, how did we get there? Like how did we get there? And, and so when you say like, Quas anti-psychotic, is that an example where people will bring Trump up where he's not even in the

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Well, I'll, I'll tell you I actually divided it into mild, moderate, and severe cases,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Oh my God. Oh my. This is amazing. Okay.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

A mild case is a person who reels at the mention of Trump's name with a need to speak up with criticisms and expletives, curse words, yelling or throwing something at the TV when Trump appears stammering.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

mild. This is mild. This seems okay. I can't wait to hear severe.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Right. The major stammering when asked what's not to like about Trump? And an inability to come up with anything that makes reasonable sense. Inability to be able to, that's kind of like what you were talking about. And here's another description of that. Inability to be able to state what policy is objectionable or why deflecting instead with statements like, oh, you know, he's just awful.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Mm-hmm.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

And TikTok rants. So an example of somebody with a mild case, and I've been kind of generous with this, is the ladies of the view,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Oh,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

you know, who are always,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

We are familiar. We're familiar.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

who are always putting Trump down. So a moderate case

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

here we go.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

is someone who, in addition to those symptoms of a mild case, also have these. One's. Life has been overtaken by TDS Trump Derangement Syndrome, interfering with work, family, other relationships and responsibilities. Being unable to distinguish between what one doesn't like about Trump's policies, from what one doesn't like about him personally. Being unable to calm oneself, to prevent lashing out verbally and or physically against supporters of the president. Engaging,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

engaging in actions to protest against Trump, such as joining marches, writing up Eds against him, or giving speeches and interviews against him, threatening, following, or assaulting people who wear MAGA hats. Anything, any of that happen or other MAGA clothing or carry MAGA collectibles and committing road rage upon seeing a Trump bumper sticker on a vehicle.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

So an example of this, maybe you heard this, it was in the news. There was a woman on a sub on the subway in New York who who saw a young man in a MAGA hat and she started calling him a racist.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

He wasn't Caucasian., he was saying to her, how could I be a racist? You know, it wasn't clear really what, what race he was, but but not white. And so he is not likely that he would be a racist. So she chased him off. She was yelling at him, you're a racist. You're a racist. He was, she was saying all kinds of mean things to him, and she chased him off the train, the subway, and on she ran after him on the platform. She was trying to grab the hat and she fell on her face. And this was in the New York Post, and it was on, it's online in a lot of places. Okay. A major case

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

All right. Here we go. Oh boy. Oh, here we go.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

in addition to the mild and moderate symptoms. Someone with a major case quits one's job or leaves one's family to work full-time trying to stop Trump,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I, I know a few of those. Okay.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

leaving the US in protest of Trump and establishing residents in another country, doing something illegal to try to stop Trump, such as to bribe a judge to stop one of his executive orders. Threatening a, a major figure in Trump's administration up close and personal. So of course, Elon Musk and also JD Vance pro Ukrainian people right after Zelensky was at the White House. They went after JD Vance. He was with his daughter and they were shouting things at him. And his poor, his daughter was like three years old and she was very terrified.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Mm-hmm.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Okay. Let's see. Attacking someone's personal Tesla, a Tesla showroom or manufacturing facility by vandalism, arson, gunshots, Molotov cocktails, or the like. Because Elon Musk, Tesla's co-founder and CEO has been appointed by Trump to head Doge

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Mm-hmm.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

doxing, Trump supporters. You know what doxing is putting

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Oh, yeah, we, that happened to us. Yep. Happened to us. Yeah.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

to you.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. Unbelievable. Hmm.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

You'll have to, I'd like to hear about that. So doxing putting someone's personal information online, with their address and all that. And then next comes swatting. Where they call the police and say something, some crime is happening at your house a violent crime. And then the police come with their guns. And it's obviously a very dangerous situation. The person inside the house could be killed and the police could be killed. And then fantasizing about harming Trump oneself. Joining a nefarious group plotting harm to Trump or arranging for someone else to harm Trump, even though knowing that one's punishment would be severe. And, and so an example of this is Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres. Rosie O'Donnell moved to Ireland. El and Ellen DeGeneres moved to England. Then we have JD Vance, I mentioned attacks on Teslas. There, the New York Attorney General Leticia James, who campaigned on the basis of getting Trump so.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

I've debated people about some of this Trump stuff and imagine like Leticia James campaigned. The slogan that Orange Man, bad, I will find crime against Orange Man. That is like, that is, that presupposes a crime they had that they had to go and find. It's that, so that, that's to me like you're a subject of derangement syndrome in that case,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

absolutely. She's the New York Attorney General. She's not just some lawyer or something. She has a, an obligation or responsibility to New Yorkers.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to, to uphold law order and, and so, okay. Those are, I have a question. I have a question, dad. So we all know Taylor Swift, right? Anyway, Taylor, I heard that before the election. Taylor Swift, I think, said that if Trump won, she was going to leave the country, but she didn't leave the country. Mm. So would that make her mild or would that still make her major?

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Moderate, I guess mild or moderate. She didn't really do, I mean, she just used her fame to try to get people to not vote for Trump. I guess that might be moderate.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

I like the breakdown. So, we've been. As we said, we've been subject to a number of what sounds like TDS sufferers from mild, very common to moderate, to even severe. Like we've, we've been doxed, we've been threatened, and death threats, like everything that you could probably imagine for somebody with a social media account and threats against our children. Mm-hmm. All because. We are supporters of the current administration and so that's kind of wild. You're actively trying to get this added to the like official documentation for a syndrome. What is that like?'cause I imagine the peer review process and getting that in is gonna be difficult.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Yes. I was on, when I was a psychiatric resident, I was on a committee for one of the DSM three diagnoses for schizoaffective schizophrenia because I had written an article about it. I anticipate, you know, I hadn't looked at the book, the website of the American Psychiatric Association in a long time, and so I did to try to find out what the proper mechanism is to propose a new diagnosis. I. And it was very scary. It's all about DEI and all kinds of woke, woke stuff. And it's like, these are supposed to be psychiatrists, you know? I mean, it's just like the American Psychological Association. I haven't looked at their website recently, but I know from different articles and so on, they also are woke now. They, these are the two organizations, the main organizations who are supposed to be looking after the Mental Health of America and they have gone crazy.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. Yeah.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Same with the a MA, also being woke and talking about having. You, you're not born as a boy or, or a girl like trying to, you know, teaching in medical school to not like to, to that sex isn't determined by your biology. And so it's no wonder that America is just kind of going crazy if you can't, like, rely on these organizations or people, these people who you know, are supposed to be looking out for you it's just very scary.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Well this like the mental health thing, right? Like you just mentioned. So do you think it's mostly like manufactured versus like, actually real? Maybe what you mean Max is like, is somebody behind it? Like is there group someone behind it or is it just like behind this like a, like a massive psychological warfare? Yeah.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Is somebody trying to make us go crazy basically? Yeah. Well, there are some people who are very powerful. That's something that I've wondered about too, that how could somebody be, who is it that is so powerful or who is an organization that is so powerful that they're able to overcome the otherwise or previously intelligent groups, doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, you know, how, how were they able to. To convince them about these things that are so ridiculous. We know like George Soros and other people, the World Economic Forum, globalists perhaps they are involved in this. It, it's still though, because I used to be very involved in, in the American Psychiatric Association. I was on all kinds of committees and so on and back in the day the people I knew were much smarter than that. And so it's, it's very disturbing. It's a great question, but it's very disturbing because we do, I need to, to know the answer. Even medical schools, you know, medical schools, it used to be. That it would, you'd have to go have good grades and good extracurricular activities and all of that stuff. And nowadays they look more at at what you do, how much social justice volunteer work you do. Now, what if I'm sick in a hospital or anywhere? I want a doctor who has spent his time or her time. Learning about different illnesses and who was the smartest in the, in the class, not the one who did the most social justice work. So it's, it's,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Or is there just because like their gender or their race or something? Mm-hmm. Yeah. What,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

right. Exactly.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

So you bring up this interesting point of this drift in higher education, in medical industry of people being trending in this kinda, let's say woke direction. And I can't, for the life of me figure out why this is happening because yes, these are, you know, people that are. And supposed to be dedicated to science, their craft and making people better, but they seem to be doing some of the opposite. So I'm curious, like what happens? Is it groupthink and is it peer pressure? I just don't understand what happens.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

I think part of it, it, the part of the problem is the fact that these things started earlier, like in medical school, the people who get chosen to be in medical school over the last, I don't know, however long wokeness has been around, and so that's part of it, that they come into these organizations, you know, wanting to be like that. And, and the medical schools are, are teaching classes on wokeness, I mean, classes, they don't call it wokeness, but like, classes on DEI or classes on you know, why isn't trans wonderful and that kind of thing. So it starts earlier, by the time they actually get to be doctors they've, they've drunk the Kool-Aid. They believe in

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

by the time that they're into those positions. I think to your point, it's, it didn't happen overnight. This has been a multi-decade process of getting

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

And we should have and, and we should have recognized it and done something about it sooner. banning Dr. Seuss and banning monopoly. These are, are our staples of childhood. You know, these, I love, I loved and love these things. And for what reason? You know, I, I guess monopoly because you're not supposed to be capitalists. And buy hotels or think about money.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

yeah. Wait. Monopoly is banned. There was attempts to Yeah. Shut down Monopoly. And I think the, the maker of it, is it Hasbro? Hasbro, yeah. Yeah. Has had pressure to stop producing it, but it's such a good game. And we play it like all the time. We play it all. We play it, we enjoy it.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

I used to play all the, with my cousin too when I was growing up. So, you know, yes. Ridiculous. Now the interesting part to this is though, that, that there is beginning to be somewhat of a backlash. There are a lot of people who are anti woke who don't believe in this stuff, and so there is beginning to be more so now that Trump has has won. There is more of, people are, are less frightened to come out and say that what things that they like and how they don't like this, but they do like this. And and so I think it's going to reverse, which is kind of gonna, is gonna be very interesting because what about all these people, you know, who have already gone that way And then most of America is gonna be against them.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Maybe that's a good segue back to Trump Derangement syndrome. Can it be cured?

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

For mild cases of TDS you could try in a very gentle way. To describe things that Trump has already done that would benefit them, like this particular person, you wouldn't really get into, the policies as much as the benefits. Of course they're gonna always have something to say against that, but it's worth trying for a mild case. Then for all cases, individual psychotherapy for cases where there are relationship issues for couples or families. Then couples therapy and family therapy. And then for the moderate and major cases, medication along with the therapy.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Wow. Wow. Medication. Wait, what? Me Medication. What medication would it be? Wait, what kind of, what

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

depending upon what other things are associated with it, like there are some other psychiatric symptoms that can be associated with TDS, like anxiety, depression, obsessive compulsive behavior, hysteria, paranoia, sociopathy, psychopathy, suicidal thoughts, delusions, loss of touch with reality, mass psychosis, anger, irrit.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

to name a few most touch of reality to. So, we can maybe wrap up soon, but as we kind of put a bow on the TDS topic,'cause this is fascinating and I'm sure it'll be fascinating to our audience. It's so, thank you so much for everything that you're doing in this'cause. In our opinion there, it, there's some reality to this for sure, but you must be getting a lot of backlash from your colleagues in the community.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Well,

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

is that? What is that

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

talked about this with my colleagues yet.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Okay. Okay. Oh, okay.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

I know there are a lot of psychiatrists and psychologists who are very anti-Trump. There was this woman who did a thing duty to warn. There were organizations when Trump was running the first time, and I think they also came out the second time, and they, you know, said that he was a malignant narcissist. He was dangerous. All of that. So, yes, it's very sad.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Wow. You've described a lot of issues that we seem to experience and put some credibility to it in terms of your background in, psychiatry we hope you have some success getting it through the institution, into the, the I don't know, what would you call it? The accredited

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

The American Psychiatric Association

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

American. Okay.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

and the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Okay. So that would be amazing.

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

Yes. Why don't you, why don't you bring some of the people on your show who did something, did one of these things to you? And I'll try to cure them

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_348ms-StreamYard:

Yes, we could do that. We, we could definitely do that. It'll be a tall hill to climb. But we appreciate you coming on and talking about this. I can't wait to, read more about the progress that you make on this. Meanwhile, we're gonna catch your book on terrorism, which we didn't get a chance to get into deeply today. And with that, we'll call it a wrap. But thanks so much for coming on. Good luck to you. And maybe we'll do a. Another session in a few months when more information breaks about your progress on this. How about that?

DR_Carole_Lieberman-Carole_Lieberman__MD__MPH-America_s_Psychiatrist-webcam-00h_00m_00s_214ms-StreamYard:

That sounds good.