Programming Lions

Ep.90 Trans Athlete Controversy w/ Kaitlynn Wheeler

• Matt Morstad • Episode 90

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In this episode of the Programming Lions podcast, we are joined by athlete Kaitlynn Wheeler, a recent addition to Turning Point USA. We dive into her experiences swimming at high levels, doing CrossFit, and the controversial topic of transgender athletes in women's sports. Kaitlynn shares her memories from her swimming career, and her first-hand experience with Lia Thomas at the NCAAs. She also discusses the broader impacts of gender ideology on women's sports and her new role with Turning Point USA alongside Riley Gaines. 


Instagram: @kaitlynnwheeler19

X: @WheelerKaitlynn

TikTok: @kaitlynnwheelerr


TIMELINE

00:00 Introduction 

00:51 CrossFit 

04:52 Swimming

05:44 Leadership

12:00 Controversial Moments

17:00 Lia Thomas

18:34 Locker Room Tensions

23:16 Speaking Out

24:50 Gender Ideology in Society

26:35 Facing Backlash

31:18 Advice for Young Athletes 

36:15 Turning Point

Welcome to the Programming Lions podcast. Today we have Kaitlynn Wheels Wheeler on the show. She is an athlete and a recent addition to the Turning Point USA organization. We're gonna talk about swimming at the highest levels. We're gonna talk about CrossFit, and she was teammates with Riley Gaines of the University of Kentucky in the infamous Swim meet. So we're gonna also talk about transgender athletes in women's sports. So let's get into it.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Caitlyn Wheeler, thank you for joining our podcast today. We're excited to have you on the show. You've got a tremendous story and a lot to talk about. So, without further ado, why don't we get into some of our questions? What do you say?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, I'm excited. Thanks so much for having me on.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Alright, very cool. And boys, where did you line up? So, first off, I heard that you're gonna, you're doing CrossFit right?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yes, I'm

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

are you gonna do the Murph and are you ready for it?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

unfortunately, I probably will get roped into it, but that's next week. So I'm not looking forward to it, but it always ends up being fun to do. Definitely get sore after. How about you guys?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Mm-hmm. I haven't actually done the full thing before. I did a half one with dad, but like, we split it and that was torture. Yeah. This time we're gonna actually try it. We're gonna do it. That's gonna try a weighted vest. He's insane. We're gonna do it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna attempt it with the vest.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

I don't

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, that's, that's what a lot of people ask. I think in the CrossFit world, it's like, it ends up being just like a group suffering. I think that's what we like to call it. We like to suffer. We like pain, but it's always fun.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

right. I expect it will be a lot of suffering, but we're gonna, I. Do it on Memorial Day. So we're excited about that. I actually ran the other day with the vest on and it's horrible. It feels like you're suffocating because of the weight of the,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yep. And

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

on you and everything. Yeah.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

pullups and everything. Of course, I didn't do it with the weighted vest for the pullups because I struggle enough just doing them body weight. But it's always fun having, like you said, the community aspect. I think that's why I. I got into CrossFit. It was'cause I loved having the comradery, the people to push you. Obviously in my sport and practice we always had people next to us pushing us and so CrossFit, I did the whole gym thing where you go and put your headphones in and everyone just kind of keeps themselves and I thought that was boring. And so CrossFit adds that cool community aspect.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, it is kind of boring. So it's definitely that competitive vibe and everything. It's, it's fun. Now, you as a, as a high level collegiate, swimmer, champion all of that, you must bring a lot of good conditioning though, to the sport. So I suspect that the conditioning part is maybe the easier part for you and maybe some of the lifting and technical skills and the gymnastics skills. Is that where you're pick you're picking things up? Mm-hmm.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

I beat some of them, that I don't normally beat them in the strength portion. So I think they were just a little frustrated. But I have that swimming background, so it gives me great endurance, great lung capacity, and helps me with those more cardio, focused workouts. So it was fun though. They, they had a good time.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. Why is it where you chose CrossFit instead of like heavy lifting or something like other than that?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, so my older sister she had been involved in CrossFit, so she kind of introduced me to it. I'd gone to the gym with her a couple times and then where I was living in Kentucky, I found a gym and I started going. I was like, oh, I'll just try it out. You know, this seems to be more exciting, more structured than I. Just going to the gym by myself and just fell in love with it. I know you guys probably understand this, there's something about picking up a barbell and dropping it and hitting prs and encouraging one another, and. All of those aspects that I think CrossFit brings, which are very unique as opposed to going to the gym or maybe other sports. I, I really loved it. It gave me a way to continue setting goals for myself to continue to push myself. Something I think I missed when I finished with my sport, which I think you guys probably understand that doing CrossFit yourselves

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Mm-hmm. For sure. For sure. Also, it's pretty fun. It is, it is.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

is.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

and fun at the same time. In fact. will and I went this morning and it was Murf Prep. We did half a Murf and it was pretty miserable. Max decided to be lazy and just slept in. Yeah, that's right. That's

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

have his mornings too, so he.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Well, okay. That's very cool. We have a CrossFit in common and if you're in Phoenix someday, you have to let us know. Have you pop into the gym and it'd be fun to do a workout together. So, what else? Let's maybe get into a little bit more of your swimming career. What do you say, boys? Yeah. All right. So moments really in your swimming career, like stood out as like particularly defining

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Hmm. Well, there's, I think, a lot that I could pinpoint, especially early in my career of swimming. I, I fell in love with the sport. It was something where I could kind of. Go and be away from the world, away from the noise away from the drama and the homework and all those fun things. I could just go and turn my mind off and, and get in the pool and block all the rest of the world out. It became like a safe space for me. I know that sounds a little cliche, but it really was. I love swimming. And as far as transformational moments. Sports, you know, you guys being athletes yourselves, they teach you so many incredible life skills. And for me, I think one of the biggest for me was being a team captain in college. I was voted as team captain my senior year. And I, I was very thankful and I guess honored to have that role. But it changes, it changed my perspective of. You know, sports and the opportunities I guess that it gives you it made me, you know, I think a lot of people sometimes may think, okay, well this, this is gonna be about me. This is more, you know, what are my goals? What are my times in this race? What do I wanna achieve? It made it a little bit different. Wanting my teammates to succeed even though I had had that previous mindset going into it. But I felt like a responsibility to ensure that my teammates were, being held to the standard. As well as, you know, I would expect them to hold me to a standard. So I think being a team captain it taught me some great leadership skills. It wasn't always easy. It wasn't always easy standing up to the coach. Sometimes even when. Voicing things from my teammates, maybe some frustrations with the coach. It gave me a different skill that I hadn't really tapped into before, but I'm very thankful for that.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Speaking of a coach, like what is a good coach in swimming? Like, you know, like a tough hardworking one or like a one that kind of does like other stuff

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

My coach in college, he was really hard on me specifically. I think coming in my freshman year, he was very hard. We had some really good girls that had just graduated. They had just left. We needed people to fill those roles and even do better. So immediately when I came in, my coach held me to a very high standard. It would get frustrating. He'd be yelling at me even though I would be in practice trying my hardest. He'd be there at the side of the pool. Every time I finish, he'd be screaming at me saying, you need to be hitting these times, these paces. But I eventually learned that I would rather have a coach that held me to a high standard that pushed me to those standards than someone who completely ignored me and didn't care about my overall success or achievements. I, I was. Thankful for a coach that, you know, set high, a high bar. Because he helped me be the best swimmer that I could possibly be. His goals were my goals and that worked out well for me.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, that's good. You hear that boys? It's good to be hard. I'm right here. Yeah, it's good. It is good to have adversity and be hard

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yes, it makes you be resilient.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Now what, so the boys also are competitive swimmers

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Oh.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

What did you focus on or what was your,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

events. Yeah, so I was an, IM, I did, IM in high school. I, I wanted to be good at all the strokes. I wanted to do them all. So Im seemed to be a event that I did well in. I loved it. I loved the 200. Im, that was my favorite event. It kept, it was quick it kept interesting. You didn't get bored doing the same stroke for one event. And it was fun. It was, it was my favorite event still to this day was. Will forever be my favorite event. But in college I was a freestyler, so I did the 200 free and the 500 free and the a hundred free. So those were my three main events. What about you guys?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

and long distance

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yes, absolutely. What do you guys swim?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Well, I, like, IM also, yeah,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

my, IM is a pretty fun stroke. I mean, I'm more of a like. short distance swimmer. I don't like long distances even though, I mean, 500 is kind of fun, but I'm more of like a 50 or a hundred type of guy.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, that takes a lot of skills. So, mad respect for you.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

wait, what was, what was your a hundred free time

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Short course or a long course.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

course.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Short course. My best was a 47 high, so it was like a 48, a 47.8 0.9, something around there.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

That's fast. Wow,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Best time, lifetime, best ever.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Wow. That is that's really fast. I swam too and I swam in high school, so not nearly the same level, but wow. I mean, we were competitive in high school. That's a fa that's a, that's a fast time. You swam at a high level and now, and you were the captain of the Kentucky and you all like did well year after year in swimming. Right. You're one of the powerhouses in the swimming space. Correct.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, we our coach who was there for about 10 years, he really grew the program. We were very much a low level team in the SEC which is the best conference I'm bias, but it's the best conference. We were kind of on the lower end of that, but as he came in, he really built a. Of the program and we were able to, during my time, my sophomore year, actually it was during Covid we won secs for the first time in school history. It was a really cool opportunity and a really cool experience to be a part of you know, history like that. But yeah, we, we definitely were able to make a name for Kentucky for sure.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. That's very cool. Congratulations. Yeah. I'm

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Thanks.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

how do you like train your mind and stuff? Like when you're behind the blocks and like you're just like about to jump in, you just like, oh my gosh, I'm so scared? Because like also all the coaches always have like different ideas of what you should do before you. like to

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

as I've heard from some others, to like stretch others to just like stay warm.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yes.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

what do you think is the best option to do?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

I really liked to just have peace and quiet. I tried to just really focus and envision my race, you know, what was I gonna do? How am I, what am I gonna do into this certain wall? What's my race strategy? I didn't like to get behind the blocks. You know, some of the girls like to, I. Talk to each other. I kind of liked just, you know, to loosen up, I would do stretches and just really focus in on, my racing strategy and knowing that I had. Put in a lot of work and time and effort in preparing for that race. So just remembering that I had worked, I had done the work, and here was just another way of executing the work was done and it was gonna pay off. Obviously there's a lot of pressure, a lot of anxiety. That's something I don't necessarily miss, although I do feel that, I don't know, when you guys do like max. You know, days in CrossFit when you're doing those heavy lifts, I feel that same type of nerves and anxiety was when we, put that barbell on your back or whatever the movement is. I get a little nervous for those things, but it, I think it's good. It, it builds character and failure is a skill I think.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Very true. It's very cool. Well, how about we transition, I'll use that word carefully, literally, literally and figuratively into another aspect of your swimming career. You were part of a very controversial moment in swimming and in culture with Leah Thomas, and. locker room incidents and everything, and you are teammates with Riley Gaines who had been outspoken about this for a while now. So why don't we transition into that topic and we'd like to learn more about sort of that experience.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. Well, I guess I'll take you back to kind of my beginning of college. There were, there was a lot of obstacles, a lot of adversity. My freshman year was the 20 19, 20 20 year, which we all know what happened in 2020. The world shut down. At least our country did for sure. But. That year, we were at the end of the season. It was my freshman year. It was really difficult. I was homeschooled growing up, so going and moving away six hours away from my family and my home. Being thrown in a completely different training schedule. Very intense. I thought what I had done in high school prepared me well for college, but little did I know day one was not at all what I thought. But it was, it was, it was good. It built a lot of strength and adversity for me, but. I was fortunate enough to make NCAAs, which is our national meet arguably one of the fastest meets in the entire world. You're racing against the phenoms of the Sports Olympians world record holders. I was fortunate.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

people that have better times in, in that event than in the Olympics.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yes, exactly. It is crazy. And, and the people you're competing against are people of course, that I looked up to a lot in my career and so. I was fortunate enough my freshman year to make it to that meet, and about two days prior to leaving we were pulled out of practice, told by our coaches that NCAAs was canceled and that we would have to pack up our stuff and go home. We thought we would be home for, maybe a week or two due to Covid, but we were ended up. Doing school remotely the rest of the semester and being home that entire summer, unable to train. Although I found other avenues to train I ended up swimming at a pond down the street from my house, which I'll say is very cold and God knows what was in that pond. But you know, you did what you had to do. I wanted to have a good sophomore year. So sophomore year rolls around, of course. We're faced with a lot of adversity and obstacles there. A lot of masks, mandates, contact tracing, vaccine mandates. Which was, is another story. But of course there was a lot of obstacles that we faced in order, to have really, essentially consistent training, which it, it made it difficult, but we, we prevailed as a team. We ended up winning secs that year, which I mentioned before. And then junior year rolls around. And at this point I'm like, okay, all the things that could happen have already happened.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

What could, what else could

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

what could possibly go wrong now?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

get weird? What? Do you know what could possibly get stranger than this?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. So about halfway through my junior year, of course, we're your entire season you're focused on secs and NCAAs. But in order to make it to NCAAs, you have to fall within the top 60 or so. Within each event. So, we go to what we call Midseason meet around November, December time NCAA's being in March. This mid midseason meet you, you swim, you suit up. By suit up, I mean we put our racing suits on and we see where we're at ranked. In our events to see if, you know, maybe we're on that threshold of making NCAAs. And of course we're seeing where everyone else is ranked. I remember we were at practice and it was after mid seasons. We were waiting for all the other teams to compete in these rankings to come out. As we were looking through the rankings, we noticed a name that was ranked first in. Multiple events ranging from the, the 50 to the mile, which isn't common even in the sport of running. It's like having your fastest sprinter be your fastest distance runner as well. It's not, common to, to have that. Of course, the same also was one we never recognized before. It was a senior coming from the University of Pennsylvania, which isn't commonly known to produce very fast swimmers. So it stuck out to us like a sore thumb. Of course in, in freestyle events too, because those were my events as well. A few days after that we read an article about this swimmer who's breaking record, conference records, team records, finishing body links, I mean, videos come out, body links ahead of the other female athletes in these events. And so in this article at the very end. There's one line that says Leah Thomas, formerly known as Will Thomas, swam at the University of Pennsylvania men's team and is now swimming on the University of Pennsylvania women's team. And this, you know, put all the pieces together for us. We were like, oh, well this isn't actually a woman. This is a man that's breaking all of these records. Being ranked first in the country. It was crazy. It was something I was like, never personally I think I'd heard at that point instances of men competing in women's sports, but it was so, I guess. It. I never ever thought in my life, real life, you know, I would come across this. And, and of course I didn't really see it as an issue'cause I thought, okay, this is the NCAA is the only opportunity that we would ever see him possibly. They're not going to let a male compete at the women's NCAA championships. You know, no way we're gonna see it. How we see it, have common sense in a brain. But they didn't see it that way actually at all. About a week out from our meet, they released a statement saying that Leah Thomas would be allowed to compete at our meet. And of course, as swimmers, you're told by your coaches, focus on your race, focus on everything you've been preparing for this season.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

distractions,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Exactly. You know, and it wasn't our job to necessarily, you know, deal with the situation. It was up to our leaders. It was up to the people within the ncaa, people with within our coaching staff, our administrators people who are supposed to be looking out for us. But that's not in fact what we saw. We saw our leaders completely and utterly. Fail us. Not only in this instance, but to so many other female athletes across the board in all sports, all levels, all age ranges. Ever since that experience, which the whole Leah Thomas story is very well known now, but there are so many other stories just like ours of female athletes being sidelined on podiums, being exploited in locker rooms. It's truly heartbreaking. But that instance for me, you know, I watched my teammate Riley. I. Ty with Leah Thomas and the tune freestyle, they ended up giving her trophy to him and told her that she would have to go home empty handed. I watched him take away an ncaa, a national title from a deserving female athlete, and I had a change in the locker room with him. That was something that I never in my life thought I would see in a locker room. Changing of course turning around and seeing a six foot four man. Which I'm six feet tall. I'm a tall girl, but I had to gaze up at this man in our locker rooms who was frankly changing and, you know, dropped his pants, exposing everything to us in the locker room while we were, were simultaneously undressed. So, crazy, crazy stuff. But I felt, I think, obviously humiliated and violated, but betrayed by the ncaa, an organization who, ironically that very same year was celebrating the 50th anniversary of Title ix. Which for those who don't know, is to protect sex based opportunities specifically for women. It was crazy that they were allowing this to happen and never in my life thought that we would be dealing with men and women's sports, men and women's spaces but really in many other areas as well. Now

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

It's unbelievable.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

it is.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

It's so wild to even imagine this. So the fact that you were there and experienced this firsthand, of course most of us were reading about this and like, this is crazy. Anxiety or awkwardness of being in a locker room, turning, to look at somebody next to you and, and it's Leah Thomas changing in, in, in your locker room and you see their dingdong. This

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yep.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

like,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

It is a, i I mean,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

making any sense.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

it's as crazy as it sounds. I, I'll kind of paint the picture here for you. A locker room isn't necessarily a place of modesty. You're. Throughout a five day meet, you're going into the locker room, you're, you're changing at least five to six times a day between sessions, you know, warming up in your, changing into your practice suit, warming up, going back in the locker room, taking your practice suit on, putting your racing suit on, going back out, doing your race, coming back in, putting your practice suit on warming down, and then coming back in and putting, changing outta your practice suit, putting your clothes on. That's just for one session. And we had two sessions every single day for a five day meet. So you're going into the locker rooms a lot, and of course, you're undressing in these environments. Growing up in the sport of swimming, doing this for most of your life you, you have to kind of get comfortable being vulnerable in these environments. It's hot, it's humid. But it's also a place of chatter and excitement. You have those pre-meet race jitters, you're excited, you're talking with your teammates and girls. You had known for the majority of your career, you'd been racing against them maybe had come from the same state, so you know each other well at this point. And I remember that first night we got there. I went into the locker rooms to change, and of course I'm talking with a couple friends. And it got really quiet all of a sudden. And I noticed this, and of course you're not normally gazing around the locker room looking at everyone but I noticed how quiet it got and it got kind of awkward. So I turned around immediately. I mean, he stood out from everyone am mere 10 feet from me you could immediately tell that every single girl in that locker room felt uncomfortable. I mean, our instinct was to cover ourselves. I think I was looking around like, are, are we supposed to be running out of here screaming, like, should we call the police? Because it was everything innate within me to. Feel as though this wasn't normal. And, and I think that they had just thought we would accept it as normal. But that's, of course not how we felt. And I think the majority of the athletes felt the same way. We even had a girl her name's call Alon an amazing phenom athlete. She was a 31 time all American which is almost unheard of. In, in sports of course NCAA sports, but she. Went and changed in a storage closet because she felt safer in a storage closet than she did her own locker room. So just to kind of paint the picture for you of what we were faced, not only on the competition side of things, but in the locker rooms. It's truly heartbreaking and I honestly, my heart breaks for the athletes, the female athletes who had a change with him. Multiple times a day, every single day for weeks and months on end. Who were teammates with him? Paul Scanlon, who's one of his teammates. She's very outspoken about this. And their experience and the emotional blackmail that they even faced from their university. So truly heartbreaking. That that was what we were faced at this elite, you know, prestigious meet these female athletes were subjected to.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

So what, like finally saying all of this. basically. Right. What finally motivated you to like, speak out about it and like eventually you got talk with turn turning point and stuff, so like.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah, no, it's a good question. I I share my story, but at the same time I share my younger sister's story. So about a year after this meet Riley had very much come out at this point and shared her story. It caught, national news, attention and became a very well known story. But I think at the moment I felt as though. I didn't wanna see myself as a victim. I didn't want to feel as though, this issue would be an issue that we would have to face again, I thought this would be the one-off issue and it would be resolved. But a year later, my younger sister, who was also a swimmer at the time, she was 16 she was kicked off of her swim team and banned from A-Y-M-C-A for speaking up about men going in and changing in the women's locker room. Keep in mind this isn't. 18 to 22 year olds. This is a 16-year-old, a minor, and her under her other underage teammates, you know, five and 6-year-old girls changing in locker rooms with 56-year-old men.'cause there were multiple of them. And she was kicked off. So I reached out to Riley and I was like, look, this has happened to now my younger sister. This is crazy that this is happening. And of course, opened my eyes to. All the other areas, women's prisons, men being allowed into women's prisons, you know, men wanting to be a part of Girl Scouts, men wanting to be a part of women's sororities men going into women's domestic violence shelters. I mean, it was crazy. I think that was the eye-opening moment for me to realize that this issue was way broader than just sports. And then see the. Truly evil of this whole gender ideology movement, which I could talk for hours about. But that's really what motivated me to speak out was, not only had it happened to me, but it happened to my younger sister, of course changed. It changed a lot for me.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Wow. Thanks. Wow. Do you think transgender issues are a social contagion or like

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. I truly think it is. I would even take it a step further. I think I. That it's almost institutionalized now. I think that yes, we have our phones, we have social media. Kids have access to so many evil things out there that people are posting on social media to I think, brainwash people. It's unfortunate to see, how this has been institutionalized, put into public schools and being taught to kids, the books that they're putting in schools and having kids read, I think starts to mess with. The minds of the innocent. And so it's definitely become I think a more popular topic to talk about and parents are, have become more aware about it. And I think Covid really opened the eyes of parents. We saw during the pandemic where parents, in order for parents to even find out. What schools were teaching their children. They had to sue school districts. And once they found out what they were teaching their children parents were outraged. The content that they were teaching young kids about sex and gender ideology. And it, it was truly crazy, I think to parents. And I think that's when a lot of parents started homeschooling, which I'm a big proponent of.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

It is really wild how this has become really mainstream and normalized. And I suppose you've been, now that you've come out and spoke up about your experience and some of the dangers of it, I imagine you've had threats and been called all kinds of names. Tell us how that experience has been.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

I will say that. Of course, anytime you take any sort of public stance on controversial issues, three years ago this wasn't a popular topic to discuss. I think before when I would bring it up to people, you could tell they immediately got awkward. They didn't even wanna talk about it. The issue that men cannot be women and women cannot be men. The most common sense, black and white basic biology. Fact people were so uncomfortable even having an opinion on. So I think obviously since then it's changed a lot. I think a lot of it's due to our current administration, president Trump and him fighting for First Amendment rights, fighting for free speech has definitely changed. I think the cultural landscape and, has allowed people to feel more free to exp express their opinions on it. But of course, back then it wasn't as popular. I got these crazy dms on Instagram, which I'm sure you guys get, crazy dms and crazy hate comments from these no profile picture profiles with zero F followers who are just trolling. You know, anyone who they disagree with calling names, hateful, bigoted, transphobic, all these, white supremacists, all these crazy terms, which some of them I didn't even know, what they meant. I was like, what? This is crazy. But that's what it is. All it is is name calling. And we know what happens when people resort to name calling. It's because they know they've lost the argument. Developed thick skin when it comes to those hate comments, but compared to the support that I received, it would mean it was a thousand to one. The amount of people who have reached out and said, oh my gosh, your story has been so inspirational to me. We've, faced this in our, YMCA or our public schools or at our, you know, soccer team it inspired and gave other parents, other athletes courage to speak up and share their own stories, which I've been able to help so many other female athletes and parents do that over the past couple of years. Which I think has helped get this, topic a lot of traction. But of course you're gonna get hate comments but when you're getting hate comments, you know you're doing something right. I would just say that, that kind of comes with the territory. You learn to brush those things off.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

We get a lot of hate. I mean,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Imagine.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

oh, that came, oh yeah, we got a, we dad, what's it called? Like when they sent you your personal information? Doxed. Yeah. Yeah. We got docx. Yeah. Like all of it. So it was, and then I feel like we get more hate than actually like love for channel. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But I feel like the good thing is that maybe you should look at it for like, I. This is what normally I do. I like only look at it for a little or I don't really look at it and I only look at about like at it like once a month. like, okay.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah. And you know what, like, it's crazy. It's like how do the people have the time to do, like, comment this stuff on people's stuff. Like do you have a job? Don't you have a life? But apparently they have better to do.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

they just sit in their a basement while just going, like, they, they don't, unfortunately, it's actually, I find it quite sad. A lot of them are real degenerates. Like they, they're not working, they're just out, trolling. And when you look at their profile. The people that are really nasty, you'll realize that they're just angry. Their life is hard or difficult, or they, they feel helpless or whatever it might be, and then they lash out at other people. It's pretty sad, that's typically what we see when we look at them. But we just try to brush it off similarly. Back to the, the transgender trend, the institutions and the media and political ideologies have been pushing to normalize and normalize this. yes, there's finally, now I think, hit a wall Trump's election, I think this was a big part of it.'cause it really is an 80 20 rule. Like 80% of the people are saying, Hmm, this is,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

is bananas.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

I would argue it's even higher than that. I would think it's like a 97 3 issue.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

It might be. It might be.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yeah.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

and so I think that is you that reflects in Trump's election and some of the orders that he's put in place now. In my humble experience talking to, we've had transgender people on the show and we engage with people online and so forth. They're not giving up on this fight for access to women's spaces like they. They still are gonna demand access to women's spaces and justify it through various means. So I guess that leads to the question what advice do you have for young athletes that face this awkward experience?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

I think a lot of the, what's been spoken from the trans community is, we just wanna exist. Just let us exist. You can't erase us. Well, let me be very clear. We're not trying to erase anyone. We're not going after trans people. We're not telling people that they can't exist. We are very much trying to protect women, protect women's opportunities, protect women's rights to privacy of areas of undressing. I believe that God created us all uniquely and specifically he did not make a mistake in how he created us. But I also believe that he gave us the freedom to live our lives the way that, that we each so choose. And so I would never want to tell someone they can't live. A certain way, I, I, you know, want people to make their own decisions and live their lives, I respect that. But also respect my right to, believe in what I believe. And that's truth, that's sanity. It's common sense. And I think truth ultimately comes from biblical truth. We know this. As far as advice for, to female athletes, I would tell them to trust your instincts. Stand firm in the truth. And I think this goes for anyone, for young kids, boys parents, teachers, coaches, administrators, anyone stand firm in what you believe in. I think truth is under attack. There's now your truth and my truth. But we're quickly, escaping the truth. And there can only be one. And so I would just tell young girls, if you're experiencing this if you're being faced with this stand firm in what you believe in, I was always told, be compassionate, be respectful, be loving. But I quickly learned that, you can be loving, you can be compassionate, and you can be respectful. But you can also do those things and still simultaneously tell the truth. I think this whole issue it has helped me find my voice, has helped me become a stronger. Person. I think it's helped me really be able to find the strength and the courage to speak out, not just on this issue, but in other areas that I very much believe are right and wrong. I would just encourage young girls, don't wait until you're faced with it head on. Start having conversations with your circles because whether you believe it or not, you all of you have circles of influence. So it doesn't have to look like a, 10,000 followers on Instagram or TikTok to make an impact. Just start having conversations with your circles of influence. That can make a really big difference, especially with someone who, maybe doesn't know how to express these certain viewpoints

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Obviously you can s speak out to the school, the board, the coaches and things like that? I'm seeing more people boycott these events. They'll show up and they just won't compete. that really sends a message. It's, that's really awkward. What's your opinion on that?

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Absolutely. I mean, just this past week we saw a Doge subcommittee hearing where they called in for. People to testify, two of which being two female athletes who have been impacted by this issue. One being Stephanie Turner, who was a, fencer who took a knee. She decided, I'm not gonna compete against this male. She took a knee and that video went viral. She decided that, I'm not going to go along with the charade. Enough is enough. We've seen many other female athletes. Do this specific strategy of boycotting races, matches, whatever it is. It's been very effective in sending a message that we're not gonna go along with this. We're not okay with this. I think the initial stance is to stay silent about it, but silence, begs compency and we can't act as though we're okay with it. The other female athlete was pate McNabb, who was the volleyball player who went up against a trans player, got spiked a ball in the face has permanent brain life changing injury brain damage due to this, the impact of the ball hitting her in the face. The other two people they called in to testify was the USA fencing chair Damon LA Felt, and then a National Women's Law Center representative who. Don't be fooled. They're not at all for women. They fight against women actually. But they were grilled. They were questioned about their stance on, after Stephanie Turner decided to take a knee. In that instance, she was then given a black card and punished. It is now not gonna continue off fencing anymore. So, so crazy stuff. But we're starting to see these people actually be held accountable. I'm in a lawsuit with 19 other female athletes that's suing the NCAA over this whole. Issue and violating Title ix. So we're seeing a lot of pushback. We're seeing the tides turn courage is contagious and so it's only encouraging other people.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Good. Wow. Well, good for you. And it's, it is great to see some of these young ladies standing up you work your whole life to be the best at something and then you get to, I. In the race and there's a dude standing next to you. It's just so strange. But nonetheless, let's let's wrap up with the trans topic. And then I wanna talk about, now you are moving on to a new sort of career trajectory. And so do you want to tell us a little bit about your role with Turning Point

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

yeah, I'm super excited. I am gonna, I officially now ri and I have both Riley Gaines and I have both joined Turning Points. What Charlie has built is just a huge machine. We definitely believe that this whole men and women sports issue is. Obvious, obviously a common sense issue, and we believe it has a shelf life. We believe that truth will prevail in the end, and that eventually this battle will be won. I don't know how long, if it's gonna be two years or five years, hopefully it's one year. Obviously, standing for truth is something that I'm passionate about and wanna keep fighting for, and, providing people with the opportunities to speak truth and have, the First Amendment rights to be able to do that, especially on college campuses. And so, what Charlie has built, as far as, these same issues and broader. I think it's just a great avenue to, unite on on these issues. I think that's something that the Democratic Party does very, very, very well. As they're united, they're in lockstep with one another, and I think that's something that we're learning. I think we need to do more of it and not fighting each other. So I'm excited to be a part of Turning Point and what they've built thus far and help contribute to, the momentum that the Republican Party, I think is making for sure.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

Let's, yeah. Turning Point is pretty cool.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

Yes. Awesome.

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Matt-webcam-00h_00m_00s_338ms-StreamYard:

congrats on the role with Turning Point. It's an incredible organization. I guess with that, we can wrap up and we'll wish you luck on your. Next stage with Turning Point. And thank you so much for speaking up and doing it. It takes a lot of courage and hopefully your story and your example can lead the way and the path for other young ladies to speak up so thanks again for joining us. Goodbye. Thank you all,

Kaitlynn_Wheeler-Kaitlynn_Wheeler-webcam-00h_00m_00s_297ms-StreamYard:

So much. I appreciate it.