Hello and welcome back to the Basic Bee podcast. I am so happy to have you here, as well as my friend Lindsay. We are going to be talking about financial therapy, financial self care. I'm so excited for this. So we're going to be speaking primarily to entrepreneurs, but don't worry if that doesn't apply to you. Stick around for the conversation because she's got some gold that she shares. Before I bring her on, here's a quick intro.
Lindsay Concher is a financial therapist here to help you feel excited about money. Yes, it's possible. Money is more than just a math problem. There's always so much more to the equation. Merging behavioral therapy and financial coaching, Lindsay helps you live your dream life. And one thing I love about Lindsay is her approach to money and that she actually is a licensed mental health professional, a mom, and she keeps things shame free. So we've got a lot of cool things to look forward to. And we actually initially connected on Threads. Pretty immediately I was like, oh, my gosh, I have to have Lindsey on the podcast. So we are here and making it happen, my friend. Finally.
We're doing it. We're doing it. It's always so funny talking to someone that you normally just like, type with on the Internet. It's like, oh, you're a real person over there. Hi. Like, wait, you exist in real life. What? I know, but I love Threads. I've actually met so many amazing people over there, yourself included. So I'm so excited that we're actually doing this. Me too. Yeah, I. Threads is a happy place for me. I really enjoy it and I think. Aren't you doing like a bit of a podcast tour this year? Yes. Was that you? Yes. Yeah, it was.
I think that's actually like, my goal is to be on 40 shows this year, and I. I'm almost halfway through, which is I'm kind of on in line. I did 30 last year, so I was up in the goal a little bit. So that's exciting. Of course, you with the numbers and the goals.
Right. Very fitting. I know. All right. On Brand, I don't deviate too far. That is perfect. All right, so one thing I want to start with is just like some of the biggest stories, beliefs that you see, especially entrepreneurs telling ourselves about money and finances. Without a doubt, the very most common thing that I hear is I'm just not that good with money. And this is often out of the mouth of babes. Right.
Women are telling ourselves this story, and we have been telling ourselves this story for decades. And it's really not even ourselves that are telling the story. It's like, that's what we've heard from so many people, and so we've just managed to internalize that. What is interesting to me about this is actually women have close to 90% of the purchasing power in, like, traditional households. Meaning we are doing most of the grocery shopping, we are doing most of the clothes shopping. And even now, there are more female buyers of vacations, of cars, of even, like, traditionally. Again, if we're talking stereotypically male versus female roles, women are now taken over the world. Who runs the world?
Girls. Right. It's us. And yet we are still telling ourselves the story. Like, I'm just not that good with money. But the truth is, that's not real. And we are changing that narrative, which is a super fun narrative to change, actually. It's a great transformational process that I love being a small part of.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you're bigger than a small part of things, but that is very interesting to hear because even when you said it, I laughed and I'm like, yep. Is that something that, again, with your background and your knowledge and expertise, is that something that you see tied to an even deeper belief?
Everything is tied to a deeper belief. Okay, so what I will say is my background is therapy. Right. I'm a licensed therapist in Minnesota. And so with bringing in that, like, financial component of it is such an interesting toggle because while I'm not doing, like, deep inner child work with people, it is still so important that we actually examine and explore your money story. So where you came from, the messages you received when you were growing up, both implicit and explicit, and how that is now impacting your money today and your behaviors with your money, your feelings about your money, we have managed to live in a world with old white men telling us forever and ever and ever that, like, well, this is your income and these are your expenses on this. Right? And it's like, wait, there's actually a way bigger story here because there is comparison.
There's trying to keep up, and whether or not we want to say, like, oh, I don't care what other people think about me, that's bogus. Like, we know that that's not true, and we can get into more of that if you want to, but I think it is deeply, deeply emotional, and we need to actually start letting it be deeply emotional in order to actually then take control of our money in a little bit more proactive and productive way.
I like that you said that. Because even just like, personally, I've been on a journey the last, I would say, year and a half of feeling emotions, getting comfortable with that. Even though I was like, oh, I'm fine. I'm good with my emotions. No, it was, let's just plaster a happy face on and, like, we're good to go. It's totally fine. I can take care of my stuff. And what that actually meant was, like, I wasn't taking care of my stuff. I wasn't dealing with. I wasn't feeling it. So then the soda bottle gets shaken and boom, there you go. So that's really good to hear that It's. We do have to acknowledge those things. And then what's the phrase? Like, you have to feel it to heal it. That kind of mentality. Yes, that's such a good one. And here's the thing is, actually, I encourage all of my clients. Every single purchase you are making, business owners and your personal. Doesn't matter. There is some emotion that we are after. All of our purchases can be very emotional, all of them. And so whether it's, you know, the happiness emotion where you're like, I'm riding a high. I want to keep this high going. I'm going to go get myself a latte because I want to, like, keep this happy feeling up. And it can be negative where you're like, I'm having a bad day. I just need something to cheer me up, so I'm going to get the latte. Like, there's two very different reasons why you may be getting the same thing. But what I often see is this, like, haphazard spending that people are doing. It's mindless, it's impulsive, and it's because we are trying to feel entertained. We're seeking a quick hit of dopamine. And so because of that, like, that's emotional driven, that's hormonally driven. Right? That's really important to acknowledge instead of just trying to, like, shove that deep, deep, deep somewhere inside and be like, oh, it's just me. I'm just pad with money. I'm like, actually, there's way bigger things at play here. I'll give you an example.
Even if you go into Target, there is now typically a Starbucks at the front of each Target store. This is intentional because the more caffeinated you are when you are out shopping, the more likely you are to buy unnecessary items, is what the study says. This includes, like, throw blankets. This includes candles. This includes all of that kind of stuff that we're all of A sudden like, oh, we're just bad with money. No, you're actually just over caffeinated, honey. You and I fall prey to this. I am not saying that I am immune to it, but I think it's really important for us to start acknowledging there are external forces at play. And so how can we actually just insert that intentionality back into our spending to make sure that every dollar that we're spending has a purpose and intention behind it.
And I'm good with spending, I like spending money, I'm good at it. And I encourage spending so long as it's done intentionally. And that's kind of where I think there's a greater conversation. And those emotions are so important to address during that work. Oh, for sure. And it's actually really interesting that you even called out that study with having Starbucks at the front of Target as you were talking about that. I was like, you know, I used to go, sometimes I wouldn't do it every time, but I always did it on my way out. Usually I was going to Target and then going somewhere else, going back to work or going home or whatever. That's one messed up. But two very interesting. Totally. This one is a little bit more commonly known. But like the layout of the stores. Oh yeah. And like if we're talking about specifically entrepreneurs here, I mean if we're talking brick and mortar, those are the layouts of the stores. Right. But now the online scape is so interesting to have like that frictionless shopping experience.
Like Jeff Bezos is the one that said he wants Amazon to be a magic carpet that you can press a button and magically have something show up at your door. Well, guess what? He obtained that. He did his job. You know, it is like listening role magic.
And so to have that frictionless experience is really creating this challenge for people in their finances. And I think for entrepreneurs especially, like, yes, we keep our business expenses and our personal expenses separate, but the two are inextricably linked because whatever it is that you're buying in your business is money spent that is then not going to. To your personal money.
Right. Which can be used for different things and, and whatever. So there's a greater conversation in there too. But I think it's important to recognize, like it's really easy for us to fall into. Like, well, it's a write off mindset. Yeah. And that's not always the best approach.
There's just different reframes that I really help my clients kind of walk through into understanding. Like this is maybe a better suited venture for you. And again, I always leave room in the categories for space. To have that impulsive drive, to have that emotion purchase, that's totally fine. But just making sure that we're having that awareness around it.
You said the magical word. Cause even as you said that, I was like, yeah, it's just like, we need to bring attention and awareness to it. Of like. Okay.
And not to judge, not to. I say this very ironically because before we hit record, I was talking about how I'm a type one, and that's known as, like, the perfectionist. So it's not to judge, it's not to, like, throw shade at it, but just like, what's going on? Okay. What can we notice?
And I think that that can be. Well, I know for me that that's very challenging. Well, yeah, as a enneagram type 1, I imagine that is very challenging. Super challenging. It's so hard when it feels like there is something that you're either doing right or you're either doing wrong. And if you're not doing it 100% perfection, then it feels like you're doing it in the wrong category. And that is my whole thing is I am not here to ever shame anybody about their money, to judge them. We already put enough embarrassment, shame, guilt, and everything else on ourselves. Like, nobody else needs to be doing that for us, you know? And so showing yourself a little bit of grace, showing yourself a little bit of compassion can go a long way in this work. It really can. Okay, so with talking about Enneagram, I know that that's like, all stuff that really stems from childhood and what you've done to protect yourself, to motivate yourself, to make yourself feel safe as a kid. And I know that you've talked about how money habits are established by the time you're. What is it, like 10 years old or something. So I feel like that's a good lead in to just like. Could you say more on this? I can say more on this. Yes. There is a study out of the University of Michigan that took a ton of kids, and they were just watching how they would behave with money.
Kids as young as five were showing tendencies that were similar to their parents. So again, how you were raised is so, so, so important to understand. Like, if you were the person that had a household that, let's say dad was kind of the. In control, if you will, of the money, and so mom needed to like, sneak the grocery bags in or sneak the shopping bags in. Right. I've had clients tell me, like, yes, we literally had to put our shopping bags under our clothes and, like, run upstairs so dad didn't see it and we wouldn't get mom in trouble. A little unhealthy. And also, it's still happening now, right? So it's like we bring these habits with us because it's what we saw. And I'm not saying your parents were bad parents. I'm not saying that maybe they were. I don't know.
I'm not here to diagnose anyone. But I think it's important to recognize, like, if there's arguments in your partnership, what is that about? And is it because that's all you ever saw? Like, for me personally, money was constantly fought about in my household. It was just always a huge source of contention between my parents and ultimately led to their divorce. And so I, for a really long time, just avoided it. I was like, well, ew, if that stuff leads to fights, I want nothing to do with it. And then things happened where I was kind of noticing, like, wait a second, Money is actually, like, the tool that could propel me forward in my life. It doesn't have to be this icky, negative thing. And so, yeah, I think, like, the beautiful part of all of this is despite your money habits being established, by the time you're 10, if you're hearing that and you're like, oh, shit, oh, my God, I'm doomed. I'm screwed. You're not. Because habits can always be changed.
This is true in any category of life, but especially true with your money. Like, you can change your habits, but to our earlier point, having that self awareness is kind of step number one. And then deciding how we want to make that change, that's the really powerful stuff. Yeah, I feel like that is a really important point to like, bold, italicize, underline, which is you can go from this place of really feeling disempowered with your finances and avoidant. Like, I have been avoidant. It sounds like you are too. To actually feeling like it is a tool and like, you can be empowered by it. And I feel like it feels so far away for some people. So let's go there. What is maybe like a step? I mean, we've talked about awareness, but, like, beyond that, what's a step that someone could take to start that transformation of their financial health? I guess. Really? Yeah. It's such a good question. I think what I really start with a lot of my clients on is establishing their goals. We talked about this a little bit, right? I love goals. I love numbers. I literally call Them your North stars? Because I use them as your guiding lights for how I want you to be making purchasing decisions going forward. And so to me, it's really important to have that kind of laid out now. What I often hear from people who are, like, deep in credit card debt or deep in, like, the black box of shame in their money stuff, they are like, I can do my short term goals, but beyond that, it's almost like it's so far out of sight, out of mind that I can't even wrap my head around the possibility of what that's gonna look like for me.
And that's okay. I think it's really important to meet yourself where you're at.
With that said, I also really encourage you to get other people on your team. As a entire society, there's an epidemic of loneliness happening. Right.
We have actually created this hyper individualized state.
And we're like, here to combat that a little bit. And I'm like, bring people in, whether that's your partner, Albeit I do couples work. And I often see that couples aren't maybe their biggest cheerleaders yet.
We get them there and that's important. But if you're like, yeah, my spouse is not the person I can lean on right now because we're just fighting about it, that's okay. But find other people that are right. If it's your best friends, if it's your mom, if it's your sister, if it's a financial therapist or your CPA or like, who's on your team.
And we have this mentality in our country where it's like, I parallel a lot of finances to health stuff because it is truly a part of your health. But, like, physical health is just a really easy parallel. Yeah.
And we really encourage somebody. We're like, oh, you got a personal trainer. That's amazing.
Like, good for you. But if you're like, oh, I have a financial therapist, people are like, something's wrong with you, you know? And it's like, no, we need to change that, like, every facet of our life. We need to have supporters, we need to have community. And so I think it's so cool that that can be a part of your journey. Here too is like, where can I find those supports? And they come from all over the place. But I do really encourage people who are like, I just cannot get myself out of that black box. Then, like, cool. Bring other people into it to help you get out. Yeah. And whether it's someone who's like, maybe on par with where you're at or like a bit behind where you're at or even where you want to go. That was one thing that I kind of subconsciously did where I was like, oh, yeah, you're where I want to be. Tell me what's going on. Then. It encourages, I think, different conversations, and especially too, like, with wherever those supporters are. And that's been one of the most healing things for me has been to be in groups or just in conversation with other entrepreneurs, other women, where it's like, what's going on with you? Let's just, like, be really raw and vulnerable and honest, talk about this thing that no one wants to talk about.
And then it's like, the more you have with these conversations, the more it's like, oh, we're all in the same boat. Totally. Oh, my gosh. Some of my favorite conversations are with other entrepreneurs because the longer that I am in this game, the more I have realized that nobody knows what the hell they're doing.
And there's so much simply not one right way, like, at all. Not even close. And so it is super fun. But I think it's so important, like I said, to have that community aspect to it because otherwise you're just gonna keep telling yourself that same story. I'm just so bad.
It's just me. It's my fault. I'm the problem. And it's just simply not true. Yeah, I recently did bring on, like, a few more supporters, I would say, and one person in particular, I was like, okay, I just need you to take a look at this stuff. Like, am I actually terrible? Like, what's going on? And she took time, she reviewed things, and she's like, no, you don't have like a problem, a spending problem or this or that problem.
It's just like, the income isn't matching what needs to go out. So then we were like, okay, what are some different ways that we can bring in different income to, like, help you dig out of this a little faster? And even just having someone look at things, an unbiased third party, and be like, yeah, no, you're not actually this, that, the other thing that you think you are, it's like, huh, okay, cool. Yes, you can breathe again. It's like you get this permission slip that we're all kind of like looking for, right?
And I don't think it's a bad thing. But even me, I teach at length, financial self care. And finally I was like, okay, I think I'm to the point now where I actually need a second set of Eyes on this stuff. Because, like, my husband and I constantly have money dates. You know, I have all my people. But I was just like, I've run these numbers like, 38 different times, and I've done 12 different scenarios. And I'm such a nerd that way. But I finally was like, we need to get another set of eyes in here. And as soon as I did, she was like, yeah, all looks good. I was like, okay, sweet. That's all I needed. I just needed confirmation that I'm not a moron. Cool. Thank you.
Right? And that's like, I see that with my financial health and where I am. And then I also see that with, like, even what I spend my money on. Like, I'm getting the courses, I'm getting the books, I'm doing the things, I'm getting the mentorship. And when I really sat down and looked at that recently, I was like, why are you doing this? And I think it really just came from this deep seated, I don't know enough. I'm not good enough. And even saying that out loud, I was like, you're a silly goose. Like, of course you know stuff. Of course you are. Like, let's table this for him then. Yes.
Yes. But it's so funny too. When I have people that are on my caseload, you know, they'll come back to me and just like, me being like, their accountability buddy, you know, it's like, I'll see people once a month for months and months and months, because they're just like, I need to know that somebody is, like, checking my work, right? That, like, I'm not doing it wrong or that I can be a voice of reason in their head. I had clients one time go on vacation, and they ended up, like, making a joke out of it. Cause the woman wanted, like, a mug or something, and her husband was like, would Lindsay approve that purchase? And they're like, joking about, like, is that okay to buy? Or is that, like a silly, unintentional, impulsive purchase or whatever. But so many times I have people come to me and they're like, well, I didn't want to put that on my spending planner, so I didn't end up buying it. And you know what? I felt so good being able to walk away. And it's just like, just having that checks and balances is so, so helpful. And so it's fun to see, like, the leaps and bounds that people can make knowing that, like, they are having that, like, little voice on their shoulder peeking.
And they're like, mom, do not buy that thing. You do not want that thing.
Like, you know, are you sure? Is this really what you want? Wait 48 hours to buy it and then come back? So yeah. Oh my gosh. That actually reminds me. A couple weeks ago, my friend and I went out. We both have birthdays in the same month. And so we went out and we took a little trip. And one thing she wanted to do that I've never done was go antiquing. And so we go around the store and of course I find some cool things. And like, we're in the process of house hunting, so I'm like picturing all these things and like, what I could do with them in the house. And I found this one little, like, vase that I really liked and I was like, I'm gonna walk around with it. So I spent like two thirds of our time there walking around with it. We got to the end of the store and I was like, it's really cute, but I've also seen like four other ones. I can come back and get it if I really want it. Yes. Oh, brava. Brava. I love this. Yes. And here's the thing. We are often, like I said at the beginning, as that dopamine hit, we're seeking that dopamine, right.
Especially as entrepreneurs. A lot of entrepreneurs are women with late diagnosed adhd. So those are a huge population that I am working with. And the dopamine release that we're looking for is actually happening in anticipation of buying the thing. Once we've actually bought the thing, the dopamine is like, yeah, I already did it. Like, it's circling through you, but like, it actually diminishes really quickly. And so just like to your point of holding that vase and walking around with it, your body gets what it wanted to get. It, like, got the excitement. It was like, yay, we're gonna get a thing and blah, blah, blah. And then you putting it down, your body was still like, well, I don't know, I still feel good. Like, you know, didn't need to actually buy it. And so what's different about this? With like, again, the in store shopping is like that anticipation is so short lived.
This is why a lot of women will go shopping for like clothes, for example.
And by the time we come home with the clothes, they actually just sit in the bag in, you know, on a chair in our bedroom or whatever the case may be. It doesn't even get hung up. Like, and if it does get hung up, it's out of sight, it's out of mind, we don't care about it anymore. Versus shopping online where that dopamine release is extended a little bit. Because not only do you get the thrill of the shop online, then you get the thrill when you're actually like clicking the button. But now it's like almost extended release dopamine where you're like, okay, but now I get to wait for it for a day or two days or whatever the shipping window is. And then you get another hit when you actually get to open the thing. And then after you open the thing, same thing, it sits on the counter and you don't actually put it away for days. It's because now your dopamine has already been released. It's gone, it's done. And so once we can like be in control of when we actually want to release the dopamine, release the hound, you know, do that in your own body, but you kind of understand how the releases work. And if you need to find a different way then to get the dopamine, then there's other things that we can turn to versus just having shopping be the thing. Right. I often say spending money is a really powerful coping skill, maybe maladaptive.
Let's figure that out. Okay, let's explore that a little bit. I love that. Just all of it is so wise. And I'm just over here like, uh. Huh, uh huh, uh huh. This is great. There is one more thing I want to make sure we touch on and we may already have, but that's one thing I want to clarify. This financial self care that you speak of, can you tell me more? Tell me everything.
Yes. Essentially what I have found, a lot of what I do is research based because I like to read about this stuff and I like the articles. You know, I'm lame. But this is why we're friends.
That's why we're friends. It's just, it's more than lame O's. Okay, cool. Yeah, exactly. The American Psychological association says that 72% of Americans are feeling financially stressed at least some of the time. There's another study that came out that is now reporting that 90% of Americans are feeling financially stressed daily. And there's negative symptoms and side effects that are coming with that. And it's now the number one stressor in the United States. So my resolve to the financial stress that we're feeling is financial self care. And I realize with full body realizations that self care is a buzzword now. And I'm actually wanting to like kind of flip that on its head because here's the thing, my angle is to help you take care of yourself by taking care of your money.
Most people think of self care as a luxury. They think of it as massages.
They think of it as a red light face mask thing. They think of it as like all of these things that are promised to you that you need in order to feel better. But at the end of the day, actually for me is if you're going to that massage and you're like, yes, I'm just having so much tension in my shoulders. Well, guess what, you come home and if you're still feeling financially stressed, that tension is coming right back. It's a band aid for what you're trying to actually accomplish. Financial self care is actually like peeling the layers back and getting to the root cause of what is going on. So then you actually can go to that massage. I personally love massages, but I'm not coming home and feeling financially stressed again. Instead I'm like, I know how I am paying for the massage and I don't have to like, you know, come right back to attention.
And so I think when we can start understanding, like, okay, yeah, this is a thing that I am buying because I'm actually feeling financially stressed and I want to reprieve from that stress that I. Right. It's just, it's like this burning cycle that we keep going through. And instead I am very much like, root cause, root cause, root cause. What's going on?
Let's start there and actually fix whatever problem you're having and then you can go on and again spend the money that you want to spend on, the things that you want to spend it on. I'm all for it, but you have to understand how that is impacting your bigger picture. And so that's kind of my angle of what financial self care truly is. I really love that. And also, I don't know if you even know this, but my background is as a massage therapist, so that example could not have been more perfect. I didn't know that. How do I not know that? Actually, I used to talk about it. A lot more than I was like, I'm confusing people so that I stopped. That's why.
Yeah, that's probably why I don't think. I've talked about it much on threads. But yeah, I mean, to your point, most of my clients were pretty well off financially and so it wasn't a big deal. They would buy packages, they would come in, they just wanted a place to go and be taken care of for a little bit. But, and I can totally see even reflecting back on some of my clients in some of their situations. They were getting away, they were escaping for a little bit. It was a band aid.
And that was one thing that I eventually did not love about it, was that it wasn't getting to the root of it. It's like, what's actually going on here?
What do we actually need to take care of? So I really like your approach to that. Good. Yes. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, it's that it hits so hard. But, yes, I'm like, again, I have, like, my own individual shame free spending account. And one of the things that you will catch me buying a lot are massages. I try and go at least six times a year, usually a little more. Like, I love it. But I'm also like, I know full well what I'm going there for. It is to relax. It is to probably take a nap, like, you know, whatever. But, yeah, I think it's so important. And we do this in so many parts of our life, right? Where we're, like, even just, like, sitting and scrolling on social media. It's like we're just actually trying to feel entertained for a minute instead of, like, dealing with whatever the thing is that we need to deal with. And because again, particularly women are so avoidant with their money, it is really easy to just keep avoiding it and just to keep forgetting that it exists and not really deal with it. But when we can really start taking care of ourselves by focusing on our money, your whole life changes. I could not agree more.
Okay, so on that note, because you've given us some, like, tactical things. You've given us lots to, like, chew on and think about. Where can we get more Lindsay in our lives? Oh, what everyone needs.
I mean, I do. Please. Actually, yes.
I am most active on Instagram and threads. I am financial therapist Lindsay. It's ey. And so you will catch me in my own dms. I'm actually still a solopreneur. I like it for now. So if you are messaging me, it is me responding to you, which is great. My blog is financialselfcareblog.com, and then I have my podcast, Financial Self Care with financial therapist Lindsay. So I'm kind of all in that space there. I work one on one with people who, again, need that support, who are like, I need the accountability buddy. I need the cheerleader. I need a supporter. I need help looking at my numbers and understanding what they mean. That is my whole role.
So I work one on one with individuals and with couples. And you can just find my financial therapy page on my website and there's a little space to put your name and your email address and then we get you on the books for a free 15 minute consultation about like, are we a good fit? Does this make sense or is there somewhere else that I need to refer you to or whatever the case may be. So that's how you can find me and work with me. Amazing. I'm so grateful that you came on and gave us really so much to think about and just even to be aware of it. So if you're listening and you're like that's a good place to start is just to be aware of it. And I can say that having been the person who was avoiding all of the numbers and the like things for so long, it's just, it's much better when you start looking at it. It is. Out of that black box of shame is a really nice place to be. It really is. Well, thank you so much. I'm so grateful and I will catch you next time. Yes, thank you.