The Mother Who Forgave Her Son’s Killers and Brings Hope to Prisons

In this deeply moving episode of the Jesus Studio podcast, we welcome Lyn, who shares her extraordinary journey of faith through unimaginable tragedy. Lyn recounts the story of losing her son, Paul, to an act of violence, and how she found strength, purpose, and a deeper relationship with God in the aftermath.

From her early days of faith shaped by a loving community to her transformative ministry in prisons, Lyn's testimony is a powerful reminder of God's ability to bring healing, comfort, and restoration through the darkest times. Her story is a testament to the power of forgiveness and the peace that comes from trusting God fully.

Whether you're navigating your own challenges or seeking inspiration, Lyn's story offers profound hope and encouragement. Don't miss this episode, which beautifully highlights the truth that God can bring purpose out of pain and turn mourning into ministry.

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Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker 1
You're listening to the Jesus Studio podcast.
00:00:04 Speaker 2
And see from his head his hands and his feet. Sorrow and love flame mingled down today. Such love and sorrow meet all thorns compose so rich a crown, you know nun.
00:00:19 Speaker 2
We can trust God for everything, can't we? And I said yes. And I thought, what a lovely conversation. And it was to mean a great deal to me because when I got back to the house.
00:00:31 Speaker 2
It came back to me.
00:00:32 Speaker 2
We can trust God for everything, can't we? Now? And as I walked in, there were two strangers of our city, a man and a woman, very formally dressed. He just said.
00:00:45 Speaker 2
Hall has been stabbed and he's dead.
00:00:49 Speaker 2
And I remember just supposed to be insane, father. They've killed my son, and I don't know what to do.
00:00:58 Speaker 4
Hello and welcome to the Jesus Studio podcast. I'm Jem.
00:01:02 Speaker 3
And I'm ash.
00:01:03 Speaker 4
And today, I'm so grateful to have Lynn here with us. She's taken the time to tell a tragic but also beautiful story of how God's just worked in her life through tragedy. So we cannot wait to hear. Welcome, Lynn. Hi.
00:01:21 Speaker 2
Thank you. Thank you very much.
00:01:24 Speaker 4
We will let you tell your story from the beginning.
00:01:27 Speaker 2
All right. Thank you. I have made some notes just to keep me on track. Otherwise I'll go off in tangent.
00:01:35 Speaker 2
I suppose in the beginning, really I've I've titled this first bit sort of good beginnings, because I think I'm so fortunate to have had good beginnings because so many people don't do their in life. And but for me.
00:01:49 Speaker 2
I grew up in a home that wasn't necessarily Christian. You know, my mum and dad never went to church.
00:01:56 Speaker 2
But they always made sure we went to Sunday school.
00:01:59 Speaker 2
And it was just one of those times where I think probably they wanted a bit of peace and quiet and they sent us off with our little tuppence in our hand for the offering. And it was literally over the road from where we lived.
00:02:14 Speaker 2
I wasn't so fussed on it really, but we've just it was one of those things that, you know, we just used to do, but it's it's looking back on things from your childhood that you realise that there's a pattern, you know, to what happened in, in my life really.
00:02:30 Speaker 2
First of all, I grew up with two brothers and a sister, so there were four of us in the House, but obviously I was very close to my sister. So the two of us really would go. I don't really remember. My brother's going to Sunday school with us.
00:02:45 Speaker 2
But it was just an hour, really, on a Sunday where my mom and dad had peace and quiet. But.
00:02:53 Speaker 2
The funny thing to me is, considering my mum and dad didn't go to church, my dad used to pray with us every night and it wasn't. It was just like a four line thing, you know, it was thank you for the food. We yeast, you know, thank you for the birds that sing, you know, thank you, God for everything that was.
00:03:14 Speaker 2
It was just that little simple prayer that my dad used to pray with us. My sister and I because we shared a bedroom.
00:03:22 Speaker 2
And when I look back, I often think it was at the beginning of really God touching my life because we were very young then. But I just remember my dad doing that. And later on, of course, in life, I found out that we actually had missionaries in our family.
00:03:40 Speaker 2
Which I didn't realise, but we had this. It was my dad's cousin and they were missionaries in it was called Thailand and then and it's.
00:03:52 Speaker 2
So I think probably they prayed as well, maybe for us as a family for us to come to know the Lord in our lives.
00:03:59 Speaker 2
So looking back, there were things in the beginning that were really good and a good background, you know, for for what my life was going to be.
00:04:08 Speaker 2
But I wasn't forced on that church one really that Sunday school. But then my friend round the corner said there's another Sunday school down the other end of the road, which we could still walk to very easily. And it was a tiny little mission.
00:04:24 Speaker 2
In the middle of a row of houses and it didn't look much bigger than the houses, just a tiny little mission.
00:04:30 Speaker 2
That was like the whole from the main church up the road.
00:04:35 Speaker 2
And it was just called St. Michael's Mission, and there was a lady there and she had a funny name. Her name was Nellie Hooligan. You wouldn't forget that name, would you?
00:04:47 Speaker 2
But she used to ask us to call her Miss Ellen, which was far better for us as well.
00:04:52 Speaker 2
And when we went to this Sunday school, it was so different. It was more family. It was more fun. You know, we had lots of singing of choruses, and we had quizzes, all that sort of thing.
00:05:07 Speaker 2
And there would be prizes as well, and tax cards given to us. And so really, Miss Ellen was the one who really made me think more about knowing the Lord in my own life. And really she won me to the Lord just.
00:05:23 Speaker 2
By the way, she was with us. She was an unmarried lady, and so she took us like a Sunday school class where her children and she treated us, just like, you know, a second mum, really for us. So one day she took us to us.
00:05:39 Speaker 2
A missionary called Kantahhoven, a whack missionary.
00:05:44 Speaker 2
And I don't really remember much about what he said because, well, I was only very young. Still, I was only 14 and probably distracted by a lot of things, but I can just remember him telling us the story about his daughter.
00:06:00 Speaker 2
Who was really ill and they prayed for her and she got healed. And then I began to listen because I thought those things only happened in the Bible. I didn't realise that God was still doing those things today.
00:06:16 Speaker 2
And so I began to listen and then at the end of the time, he made, like, an appeal. I can Billy Graham that you see. And he just asks for people if you want to receive the Lord into your life.
00:06:31 Speaker 2
And come forward. And so I remember we were singing just as I am without one plea, which is an old hymn.
00:06:39 Speaker 2
And I think Billy Graham actually used to use that himalos as well. It was familiar to me. And so I remember when it got to the third verse, when it talked about see from his head his hands and his feet.
00:06:54 Speaker 2
Sorrow and love flow mingled down today. Such love and sorrow meet or thorns compose so.
00:07:03 Speaker 2
And I just had that picture of Jesus on the cross and knowing that he died for me. And so I stood up to go forward. And then when I looked, my sister was standing next to me and my 2.
00:07:19 Speaker 2
Which was pretty much our class and when I looked over at Miss Ellen, she was crying in the corner because she'd probably been praying for us to come to this place, and she was just so thrilled that we'd all.
00:07:33 Speaker 2
Given our lives to the Lord on that same day.
00:07:38 Speaker 2
So that was really when my life absolutely changed. You know, as I say, I was 14, I was still at school.
00:07:46 Speaker 2
And it was just such a change, and even the teachers noticed in school. I was like, the nerdy one at the back of the class, you know, with glasses. And one friend that was me never opened my mouth, really.
00:08:00 Speaker 2
Just very, very quiet and.
00:08:04 Speaker 2
But all of a sudden I just gained confidence. Not in me.
00:08:07 Speaker 2
But just confidence in in God and in this new life. I was just so excited about everything.
00:08:15 Speaker 2
And in those days, of course, we had school assemblies, and sadly, we don't have so many of them around now. But even school assembly took on new meaning as we sang the hymns all of a sudden I knew the one I was singing about.
00:08:31 Speaker 2
And it just made a huge difference.
00:08:35 Speaker 2
And over time, that last year at school, I really enjoyed it because I didn't really enjoy school. But when I was a Christian, I just really enjoyed it so much.
00:08:46 Speaker 2
And I remember praying with my best friend, and she was called Linda as well.
00:08:50 Speaker 2
And they used to call us the two lenders, you know, and I think I prayed with everybody in the class at some point. We used to give out tax cards, and if there was any line around, people would push it outside our class because they knew where they'd come from.
00:09:08 Speaker 2
And it was just the freedom, really, that we had at school to be able to just talk to people and.
00:09:14 Speaker 2
We were just so excited about our new life.
00:09:18 Speaker 2
There's just one story I'd like to share with you from school, which I thought was amazing. We we had Ari, you know, religious education.
00:09:30 Speaker 2
And I always felt sorry for this.
00:09:32 Speaker 2
Because everybody really ridiculed.
00:09:34 Speaker 2
She was very quiet, teacher, not much confidence and maybe because it was Ari as well, people would just treat it quite badly, used to feel a bit.
00:09:43 Speaker 2
For her.
00:09:46 Speaker 2
But we used to take turns having the assemblies. Each class would take a turn and now as a Christian, I just remember saying, oh Lord, I'd love to, you know, give something in the assembly to say something.
00:10:02 Speaker 2
Even if it's just reading one verse.
00:10:05 Speaker 2
The Bible would like to do that.
00:10:09 Speaker 2
And so the next day we heard it was our class was turned to do this assembly, and Miss Evans, the teacher sent for me, and I was excited. I thought, oh, I'm going to get to do something.
00:10:24 Speaker 2
But it was what she said, she said. I'd like you to do a reading, she said. But I'm awful sorry. It's only one verse, and I remember thinking, I remember saying to the Lord, even if it's only one verse Lord, and then when she said, but it's just one verse.
00:10:40 Speaker 2
I knew then that God is everything we.
00:10:43 Speaker 2
Say even at that age and simple things that I used to pray, I just felt the Lord, you know, I got me one verse, and when it came time for assembly, I remember just.
00:10:58 Speaker 2
Reading that one verse, but before I was reading it, we were all in a line on the stage, ready to do our bits, and we'd rehearse this beforehand.
00:11:09 Speaker 2
And I was standing next to this girl, and I thought the whole class are here. I could actually, the whole school. Sorry. And I thought I could actually speak to the whole school here. And I knew it was an opportunity I probably wouldn't get again.
00:11:24 Speaker 2
And so I remember just saying, Lord, if I get that chance, I can't hesitate because of a do the next lady will begin, she'll begin her bit, you know.
00:11:35 Speaker 2
And so when I finished that verse I just carried on and said, you know, you have an opportunity to give your life to the Lord.
00:11:43 Speaker 2
And I just did this almost without thinking, and afterwards the deputy head asked to see me and I thought, oh, oh, I'm in trouble. And when I went, she came out and a very hostile woman with a tight bun in her.
00:12:01 Speaker 2
And she was quite austere. I was a bit frightened of her. Miss Smith name was.
00:12:06 Speaker 2
And she came out of the heads office and she said, well, I don't really know what to say to you, she said. I just want to tell you that I admire you very much for what you did, and we'll leave.
00:12:18 Speaker 2
At that.
00:12:20 Speaker 2
So I was just walking on air having that opportunity, you know, so young and to do that, I look back now and I think, Oh my goodness, you know.
00:12:32 Speaker 2
But that was just the change in my life from being this very quiet person.
00:12:37 Speaker 2
It's just excited at the reality, really, of who God was right at the very beginning.
00:12:44 Speaker 2
Later on, we heard about a coffee bar. In those days, they used to have these coffee bars attached to a lot of churches and all young people would go from different churches and they would have Christian gospel singers.
00:13:00 Speaker 2
And groups on and. I was still only 14.
00:13:05 Speaker 2
And I heard about these coffee bars and my sister and I and my two friends, we all decided to go to this coffee bar in Toxeth in Liverpool and it was called Maranatha and Maranatha's actually mentioned in the Bible. And it means that he could come with.
00:13:23 Speaker 2
Talking about the Lord coming back again, so it was called Maranatha. And as we went in, we thought we'll help out because you know, they needed people to make tea and coffee.
00:13:35 Speaker 2
And all the young people from the area would come in to extend, and lots of other people as well from other churches would all come because it was something for the young people and it was music.
00:13:51 Speaker 2
And it was free drinks. So there was nothing not to like.
00:13:56 Speaker 2
And I met Mick there as well, who I was later to marry.
00:14:02 Speaker 2
And Mick had just been saved as well. He'd just become a Christian and he was 17 and I was 14.
00:14:11 Speaker 2
And they were just brilliant days because I think a lot of us, because it was like an interchange thing, lots of churches with young people would all mix together, which was great. So a lot of us really met our partners for life there.
00:14:27 Speaker 2
So that was a great experience really. So I met Mick and I loved his spirituality. You know, the reality of God in his life and for a 17 year old who knew nothing.
00:14:42 Speaker 2
He I just loved his relationship with the Lord I was.
00:14:48 Speaker 2
Really struck by his wisdom, for for such a young person, I'm sure at the time I wouldn't.
00:14:54 Speaker 2
Talked.
00:14:55 Speaker 2
This about him. I'd have just said, oh, he's really nice looking, you know.
00:14:59 Speaker 2
It was.
00:15:00 Speaker 2
That's funny.
00:15:02 Speaker 2
But we started going out together and I got married four years later when I was just 18.
00:15:10 Speaker 2
And Mick was coming up to 21, so they were great days, good beginnings. We had good mentors as well, people, people in the coffee bar would really mentor us.
00:15:24 Speaker 2
And look after us, the little mission where I used to go. I think they knew this. I was going to move on from that little mission.
00:15:35 Speaker 2
Because sometimes you stay in a place because you feel obligated to the people who've helped you and have been there from the beginning. But I think they understood this. You know, God does move a song and with their blessing.
00:15:50 Speaker 2
We move to that church because there was a lot of outreach going on there.
00:15:55 Speaker 2
Whereas the little mission was a very elderly congregation and they didn't have anything other than just the services.
00:16:02 Speaker 2
And so we were involved, really in a lot of outreach. They were always very outward looking in the coffee.
00:16:11 Speaker 2
And so really we we began to testify on the Friday night in between the groups singing songs and, you know, our faith would just grow as we see people coming in, people giving their lives to the Lord.
00:16:26 Speaker 2
And so there were great days really.
00:16:30 Speaker 2
When Mick and I married we we had this little 2 up to down House when we first got married.
00:16:37 Speaker 2
Cost us the princely sum of 1200 lbs.
00:16:41 Speaker 2
And so we were. We were very happy. We had a lot of tent crusades as well in those days.
00:16:49 Speaker 2
That was something which we really loved, and when we began to do the 10 crusades, we were looking for somewhere just really to store the tent this marquee and.
00:17:04 Speaker 2
We'd gone to marquee meetings and we'd always loved them, and so it wasn't any surprise that we would have our own marquee.
00:17:13 Speaker 2
But we did have trouble finding somewhere to store it.
00:17:18 Speaker 2
Anyway, my husband may he worked for the gas board at the time, and as he's he'd read metres and as he was reading the metres this day, he was on this road where there were really big houses.
00:17:34 Speaker 2
And as he's walking past this house, there was one for sale and the Lord said to me.
00:17:42 Speaker 2
I could give you the house.
00:17:45 Speaker 2
And Mick always says I was really shocked, you know, just to hear, almost an audible voice saying I could give you this house.
00:17:53 Speaker 2
He thought no more about it, but then when it came round to doing that road.
00:17:59 Speaker 2
Later on, he stopped and the Lord spoke again.
00:18:04 Speaker 2
Would you like me to give you this house? And we didn't understand at the time. Well, what would you want to big house for? But we thought maybe we could store the marquee there.
00:18:15 Speaker 2
Anyway, we decided to have a look at it and to go and find out about this house and it turned out that it was actually 2 houses.
00:18:26 Speaker 2
And they were, I think, 15 rooms in each. And when we went, they were in trust and they've been on the market for two years. Nobody was interested in.
00:18:36 Speaker 2
In them. And so they said, you know, what would you use them for? And we said, well, we're involved in outreach and we'd like to use to house, you know, not just the marquee, but we would probably begin a church.
00:18:53 Speaker 2
Like house, churches were very popular in those days and still are, I suppose. And so we had no money, of course.
00:19:02 Speaker 2
And they said, you know.
00:19:04 Speaker 2
Well, what were you thinking about? And we thought we've got no idea. These two massive houses in a nice area as well. And they just said in the end we'll just offer them 50 and see what they say. And we thought, gosh, we haven't got 50,000.
00:19:21 Speaker 2
Pounds, you know? And he said no. Offer them 50.
00:19:23 Speaker 2
Just see what they say.
00:19:25 Speaker 2
And they accepted it and it was just one of those miracles along the way, a real adventure. You know, finding this House that God has spoken to us about. And Mick said to the Lord, can you just confirm it just this is right for us, you know, that's the right place and it's right for us to do.
00:19:45 Speaker 2
And the Lord said to him, you'll see a room that is all green when you go in, so very excitedly when we got the keys. Finally we went round the House.
00:19:57 Speaker 2
Each house and then the very last room in the house was locked.
00:20:02 Speaker 2
There's a bedroom and so we had to break into this room to get in, and when we walked in, there was massive green carpets. It was green walls and very green curtains.
00:20:17 Speaker 2
And again, it was just another thing, just Lord confirming that the guidance you know is right. And so we were there for seven years and we had, oh, just amazing times of fellowship there. People would come.
00:20:33 Speaker 2
From other churches as well. We used to have, you know, visiting and.
00:20:38 Speaker 2
And so that was an amazing time as well. In those seven years, we lived above the fellowship we we knocked through the two houses and we had one big room where we had the meetings and we had an office there and.
00:20:53 Speaker 2
We were still only like 2324, you know. So there were lots of things that happened there. I wish now I'd have kept a journal. Of all the things that happened.
00:21:04 Speaker 2
Happened, but just the fact that we we didn't even have the £50, to be honest to pay for them and then somebody came and gave us the 50 lbs and to pay for them. And you just think, you know, God just intervenes when we can't do something, then he intervenes.
00:21:23 Speaker 2
And he sees two things, doesn't he? So that was an amazing time as well.
00:21:29 Speaker 2
Couple of years later, of course, we had our children. We have a son and a daughter.
00:21:37 Speaker 2
Joanna arrived 1st and just a delight to to have. We still didn't have an indoor bathroom at that time. We used to go down the yard to the to the loo, so it was it was. It was OK looking at it now the kids laugh about it, don't they, you know?
00:21:56 Speaker 2
They may. You had to go in the yard to go to the toilet, but we were happy in this in this House for a long time till we moved into that big house.
00:22:05 Speaker 2
The big houses in dry, dry, dry.
00:22:08 Speaker 2
But in the even in get in the house that we got, then there were times, you know, that we learned things and we've been given this water heater.
00:22:21 Speaker 2
And I remember somebody else was getting married and they were getting married before us, and they needed a hot water heater. And we decided to give that to them.
00:22:33 Speaker 2
And then when we moved into into our little house.
00:22:38 Speaker 2
There was a more newer 1 already there, and again it's just in every part of our lives we saw the goodness of God just providing for us and you can never out give God. You know, when we gave ours away.
00:22:53 Speaker 2
God gave us something better, you know, and it's just the generosity of of seeing God provide for us in those days as well.
00:23:03 Speaker 2
So really going forward now.
00:23:09 Speaker 2
A bit further on.
00:23:11 Speaker 2
In 2002, I was 50 at the time, and something happened in our our lives. But you know, when things come up in our lives, we had all that history that I've just shared with you.
00:23:26 Speaker 2
Very quickly, of course, that took years to live those lives.
00:23:30 Speaker 2
But just that overview of of life growing up, we had so much.
00:23:36 Speaker 2
Blessing in our lives and so many answers to prayer.
00:23:40 Speaker 2
And then so when things happen in our lives, we had all that history to look back on, all that testimony, to look back on of God's faithfulness in our lives. But this day in it was August the 27th.
00:23:55 Speaker 2
And.
00:23:57 Speaker 2
Our children, as I say they were, they were grown up then.
00:24:02 Speaker 2
Paul was 28 and Joanne was 13.
00:24:06 Speaker 2
And Paul had just gone out to work as normal.
00:24:11 Speaker 2
And then we didn't think anything of it that he didn't come in because he was working late.
00:24:17 Speaker 2
But the next day I was at work and.
00:24:24 Speaker 2
I got a phone call just to to say, you know, that my granddaughter had been hit by a swing in a school playground and so would I look after the older grandchild. This has moved on now, hasn't it? To grandchildren.
00:24:41 Speaker 2
And so I decided, yes, we'll, we'll look after Jenna at the time. Mick would go to work. He was pastoring a church at the time.
00:24:51 Speaker 2
And I just wanted really to look after Jenna. She was 8 and I just took a really shopping because she was worried about her sister in hospital. And so I just decided to just occupy by taking her shopping and looking around the shops.
00:25:09 Speaker 2
So on the way home, I remember a conversation we had in the car.
00:25:15 Speaker 2
And she was just this little 8 year old. But I remember, you know, worrying about her sister. And I said, you know, God never sleeps. The Bible says that he neither slumbers nor sleeps. And I say God's awake all the time and he's looking after Sally, you know, in hospital.
00:25:32 Speaker 2
And it went quiet in the car. And then the next minute, she said, you know, Nan, we can trust God for everything, can't we? And I said yes. And I thought, what a lovely conversation.
00:25:44 Speaker 2
And it was to mean a great deal to me, because when I got back to the house.
00:25:50 Speaker 2
It came back to me. We can trust God for everything, can't we now?
00:25:56 Speaker 2
I didn't have my dorky on me and Mick would have been at work, so I wasn't really expecting to get in the house, but I went round the back and I was surprised the door was open and as I walked in, there were two strangers on our city.
00:26:12 Speaker 2
A man and a woman.
00:26:13 Speaker 2
Formally dressed and as I walked in with Janet, these two people stood up and took my granddaughter off me and went into the kitchen with her.
00:26:23 Speaker 2
And I wondered who these people were. It wasn't a total surprise to see strangers in our house because there were always people in our house.
00:26:33 Speaker 2
But there was something different about the atmosphere and and as they took Jenner into the kitchen, Mick was there when he had his back to me. And then as he stood up and turned round and I could see that he'd been crying and he began to panic a bit then.
00:26:50 Speaker 2
Thinking about my elderly parents and all sorts of things went through my mind.
00:26:55 Speaker 2
But it certainly wasn't expecting what what said?
00:26:58 Speaker 2
And they said that he just said Paul has been stabbed and he's dead.
00:27:06 Speaker 2
And you never expect to hear something like that just on an ordinary day of your life, everything can just change. In a moment, I found out, of course, this the two strangers were.
00:27:21 Speaker 2
The lady who was leading the investigation and the other man was a liaison officer, which I didn't even know what that was.
00:27:31 Speaker 2
But he was just there to take us through what happens now, you know.
00:27:37 Speaker 2
Paul was just 28 and he was about to be engaged. The ring was on order, and so we were planning a wedding in our house when all of a sudden that all just came crashing down and our whole world.
00:27:52 Speaker 2
Just changed in that instance, everything changed.
00:27:57 Speaker 2
And his girlfriend was actually in Ecuador at the time on a Christian mission, and Paul should have gone with her and decided at the last minute not to go.
00:28:07 Speaker 2
And there's so many of only's to my story, like most people's stories. If only he'd gone, or if only she hadn't have gone, she would have been with him. You know, all of those things.
00:28:21 Speaker 2
But he he worked in a sheltered in a home.
00:28:27 Speaker 2
Sort of. Well, a job with special needs people, special needs children and adults, and we just thought he was there, you know, overnight.
00:28:40 Speaker 2
So we didn't understand what had happened or how, but I'll come to that in a little bit a bit later on. But at the time I remember saying to me, you know, as I sat down trying to take in what he said.
00:28:56 Speaker 2
I just remember saying to him, you know well.
00:29:00 Speaker 2
We just have to trust like we did with Derek and that was my brother who died 4 years before. Derek was sadly an alcoholic and he died at 52 and and that was quite a trauma thing as well in our family.
00:29:16 Speaker 2
But this was different. You know, this was just so different.
00:29:20 Speaker 2
And I remember thinking, I don't really want to talk anymore, you know, to about anything. I just needed to go and pray. You know, I was desperate to know what God had to say because.
00:29:34 Speaker 2
I knew people would have things to say, but I just really wanted to hear from from God, so I excused myself.
00:29:42 Speaker 2
And I said to the police, you know, I just need 5 minutes and I went upstairs and I just knelt in the bathroom.
00:29:49 Speaker 2
And I remember whispering because I was so aware of God's presence, just almost tangible presence of God in that little tiny bathroom. And as announce, I just remember whispering because I felt a bit like I was on Holy Ground.
00:30:06 Speaker 2
Like Moses took his shoes off. You know he was on holy Ground. It felt a bit like that to me when I looked back. And I remember just been saying, father, they've killed my son and I don't know what to do.
00:30:18 Speaker 2
And it was just that, really, that cry of help. You know, I didn't know what to do. And I just remember saying, will you just please speak to me? And he did the next minute.
00:30:32 Speaker 2
He asked a question and he said will you trust me? That was all he said. Will you trust me? And it was like he didn't say anything else because he was waiting for an answer. And I remember, just put my hand up saying yes because I had all my history.
00:30:48 Speaker 2
Of trusting him.
00:30:50 Speaker 2
And it was a relief, really, because it wasn't a hard thing. It wasn't a hard thing. He asked. Just will you trust him?
00:30:59 Speaker 2
And that's what my life was all about. It was all about trusting and following.
00:31:04 Speaker 2
And then the next thing he said was it was an instruction and it was just simply follow me, trust and follow.
00:31:13 Speaker 2
And that was just such a lovely thing, because I couldn't really have taken in anything else, to be honest. It was such a simple conversation, and it was a backward and forward conversation. I spoke and then he spoken.
00:31:28 Speaker 2
And then I just responded and I thought, well, if he says, follow me.
00:31:33 Speaker 2
That's easier for me than me having to find, you know, to try and find a way out of this.
00:31:39 Speaker 2
I was just following.
00:31:41 Speaker 2
And I thought he has a plan. There must be a plan here and we know in the Bible it talks in Jeremiah about a plan and says I know the plans I have for you.
00:31:54 Speaker 2
Plans not for harm, but to give you a future and hope.
00:31:59 Speaker 2
And so I knew this. God knows what she's doing. We often forget that, don't we? You know, God knows what she's doing.
00:32:07 Speaker 2
And he permits things that we don't always understand. Why?
00:32:11 Speaker 2
But hopefully by the end of Mysterio you get a glimpse of why.
00:32:15 Speaker 2
But he didn't ask anything hard. He just wanted that response really from me that I would trust him and that I would follow.
00:32:25 Speaker 2
So it was very difficult bringing Joanne, our daughter back from the hospital looking after her daughter to tell her that Paul had been killed.
00:32:36 Speaker 2
And it was just.
00:32:38 Speaker 2
We just cried in the hall really for about 20 minutes and but we had to go and identify Paul as well.
00:32:46 Speaker 2
So sometimes people say, you know, life just sort of was on hold, but for us, I felt like it was going 100 miles an hour.
00:32:56 Speaker 2
It was just so much to do, you know, the police were still there and they were asking us questions and all sorts of things that we were just thrown into this world that we knew not nothing about.
00:33:09 Speaker 2
And but we said to Joanne, we're really sorry, but we have to go to identify this body that they think is Paul's.
00:33:18 Speaker 2
And so somehow she drove herself back to the.
00:33:21 Speaker 2
And I always regret not having that time really, that she needed at that time.
00:33:28 Speaker 2
But when we went, we just followed the police in a car behind the police. We decided to drive ourselves. And as you're going along, it was a familiar route to the hospital. I'd been to the hospital to visit loads of people.
00:33:43 Speaker 2
I didn't know that there was a room at the side of the hospital that people like us would go to identify people.
00:33:52 Speaker 2
That was new to me and and you see people you know as you're looking out the window. We didn't really speak, Mick and I, we were just still in shock.
00:34:02 Speaker 2
I just kept saying I can't believe this. I just can't believe this, you know? But you're looking out at people. Just getting on with their lives, you know, and you want to say to everyone, don't you know what's happened to me? You know, it's just seems odd seeing people getting on with their lives.
00:34:19 Speaker 2
Normally when this huge thing.
00:34:21 Speaker 2
And in our lives.
00:34:24 Speaker 2
But as we got to the place we walked in and the police said to me, you know?
00:34:30 Speaker 2
Go.
00:34:30 Speaker 2
This side and they ushered me around the other side, and we could just. I saw straightaway Paul's face.
00:34:38 Speaker 2
But he was covered.
00:34:39 Speaker 2
And he had, like, this cage over him.
00:34:43 Speaker 2
And they said to us when they asked us, you know, was it poor? We said yes. Yes, it is awesome.
00:34:50 Speaker 2
And I can remember still sensing God's presence was just so real with us because I was very calm. And that's not like me, you know, I was the most emotional person you could meet.
00:35:05 Speaker 2
But I was just very calm and I felt.
00:35:09 Speaker 2
Although we were in shock, I was thinking clearly because they asked a question that Mick was unsure about and I could answer that question. So I was thinking very clearly and I was understanding everything that was happening.
00:35:23 Speaker 2
But I just remember as I went round to see the other side of Paul, I remember saying out loud it was important that I said is out loud and I just said I trust you.
00:35:37 Speaker 2
And when he said, will you trust me earlier on, you know, as I got to that place, I just felt it was almost like a declaration.
00:35:46 Speaker 2
I'm going to trust you, and I felt the Lord just say.
00:35:52 Speaker 2
This isn't the end of things. This is, you know, there's something I can higher purpose to this. And so for me, just hearing this, it wasn't just some tragedy that had happened, but something good was going to come out of this.
00:36:08 Speaker 2
And of course, at the time, I can't imagine what good is going to come out of this, but I just had that sense of.
00:36:16 Speaker 2
There was a purpose to it, and that God was going to do do something through it.
00:36:23 Speaker 2
And everything in me wanted to prove God in that situation because, you know, we'd had health issues, financial issues, things like everybody goes through in life. As I say, this was off the scale. And I remember saying to the Lord.
00:36:38 Speaker 2
I don't know how you're going to guess us through, but I know you will, but I don't know.
00:36:43 Speaker 2
But everything Amy wanted to just prove God in this situation.
00:36:48 Speaker 2
You know, Romans 828 talks.
00:36:52 Speaker 2
About written it down here, it says we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are. The called according to his purpose. And that's a lovely verse. All things work together for good.
00:37:08 Speaker 2
Does it mean all things?
00:37:12 Speaker 2
But as I read that many, many times over the years, and I've always thought what a fantastic thing for God to promise, that everything that happens in our lives, good or bad.
00:37:24 Speaker 2
There's something more. The reasons we don't always know the reasons here, but we will one day know why, but probably then we won't need to ask the questions. But I just knew this and that was a verse. This. Yeah, all things.
00:37:41 Speaker 2
Work together for good.
00:37:44 Speaker 2
The police asked us the next day. Would we be happy to do a press conference?
00:37:50 Speaker 2
And.
00:37:51 Speaker 2
We'd never done anything like this. You know, everything was new. That was happening to us. We'd never experienced any of these things before. But the police said, you know, the media will come in and they'll ask you questions. And the reason we do it is because we were they wanted to push us on Granada reports.
00:38:10 Speaker 2
The local TV station, and it's really just asking for help.
00:38:15 Speaker 2
The community to find out who's committed the crime.
00:38:19 Speaker 2
And though so we said yes, we'd do it. And this was just the very next day. And so, as I say, everything was going 100 miles an hour.
00:38:29 Speaker 2
And so again, the police came. They picked us up and they took us and they took us to the room and explained everything that was going to happen. And we had a cup of tea and they made us feel as relaxed as we could be.
00:38:43 Speaker 2
And then the press began to come in, and as they filed in and nobody spoke, everybody was very respectful.
00:38:52 Speaker 2
And as they began to ask US questions about Paul, I'm so glad that this one man asked us a very important question. And he said, how do you feel about the people who've killed your son?
00:39:06 Speaker 2
And Mick and I looked at each other because we were still grieving for Paul. We hadn't even given any thoughts.
00:39:12 Speaker 2
Whodunit or why any of that? We were still trying to take in the loss of our son, you know, and.
00:39:21 Speaker 2
We just said we forgive them and it just came out of our mouths almost. You know, we didn't even have time to think about it or talk about it. But I think because we've been a Christian 36 years, I've been a Christian by this time.
00:39:37 Speaker 2
And so I knew about forgiveness in my own life, and I'd seen God's forgiveness over the years in many people's lives. And, you know, you think you know about forgiveness. I thought I knew all about forgiveness.
00:39:51 Speaker 2
But I was to learn more about forgiveness, but it was just.
00:39:57 Speaker 2
I was so glad I felt God intervened in him asking that question because I think that that was the moment really that we made that decision to forgive. And they also said.
00:40:11 Speaker 2
Is there anything else you know you want to say? And I just wanted to read a couple of verses because the Lord has spoken these verses to me and I'm reading from the living Bible. This is 2 Corinthians and it's chapter one, verse 8:00 and 9:00.
00:40:29 Speaker 2
And I remember reading these, and the Lord really spoke to me through them. And it says this.
00:40:37 Speaker 2
It's talking about the apostle Paul and he's saying about the hard time he had in Asia and he uses these words. We were really crushed and overwhelmed and feared we would never live through.
00:40:51 Speaker 2
We felt we were doomed to die and saw how powerful were to help ourselves, but that was good for them. We put everything into the hands of God, who alone could save us.
00:41:04 Speaker 2
And that was it. Talks about, you know, these things that happen.
00:41:10 Speaker 2
To us. But we're not destroyed by us. You know, we're not destroyed by all these things.
00:41:18 Speaker 2
Also, sorry, there's another verse as well which probably says it's even better. And that's in two Corinthians as well. But it's chapter 4.
00:41:31 Speaker 2
And it says this.
00:41:36 Speaker 2
But this.
00:41:39 Speaker 2
We are pressed at every side by troubles, but we're not crushed and broken. We're perplexed because we don't know why things happen as they do, but we don't give up.
00:41:51 Speaker 2
And you just think, you know, that was how I felt at that moment when we were in that press conference and I was able to read that house.
00:42:00 Speaker 2
And I had lots of lessons after that from people from Christians, you know, who were encouraged by those words because you don't know until you're in a situation what you'll do.
00:42:12 Speaker 2
And to forgive the way we forgave just the next day, people are amazed. But I often think if that man hadn't have asked that question, I think I probably could have struggled for years over that, you know, with unforgiveness.
00:42:27 Speaker 2
It's not like degrees of forgiveness, it's forgiveness.
00:42:31 Speaker 2
But I, as I say, I thought I knew all about forgiveness, but I realised that actually there's there's a lot more to it. And although you know, we were grieving the loss.
00:42:46 Speaker 2
We felt really spiritually strong at that time and it's like the Bible says, you know, his strength is made perfect in our weakness and that's exactly what was happening. There are so many Scripture verses now that jump out at me. And I can say.
00:43:01 Speaker 2
That's true. That's I've experienced that. I've experienced that, you know, and the Bible's just coming alive to me, things that you know the Lord had spoken over the years, things that I'd read so many times, but now they were so real because I was experiencing things that I hadn't experienced.
00:43:20 Speaker 2
But it was also true.
00:43:23 Speaker 2
There were two things really I wanted to just talk about for a moment that really have brought peace and healing in our lives and that have been so important. Forgiveness, obviously.
00:43:37 Speaker 2
I didn't realise how important that step was, just that next day and I think we've done well really.
00:43:45 Speaker 2
Over the years, because we forgave so quickly very early on, but I can understand that it can take people a long time to forgive.
00:43:53 Speaker 2
I've taken a long time to forgive trivial things over the years. Stupid things.
00:44:00 Speaker 2
But now I can measure anything that happens. Now I measure it by that. We'll ever forgive the people who killed Paul. There's nothing you can say is that everything else must be forgiven easily. But you know Unforgiveness is is a terrible thing. We've met lots of parents, people.
00:44:19 Speaker 2
Who've lost their sons and daughters like we have. And when we've met with them, you know they're full of hatred and bitterness. They're angry. They have chaos. It lives.
00:44:30 Speaker 2
But you know when we forgive, it sets us free from all of those things.
00:44:35 Speaker 2
And it sets us free in our minds. It sets us free in our hearts, and we're able to live free. For me, it was like letting go of the pain.
00:44:45 Speaker 2
I'm not saying it's easy, but what I am saying is it's possible.
00:44:51 Speaker 2
And sometimes people have said, well, even if they've shown no remorse because they never have.
00:44:57 Speaker 2
And I would say yes, because it's good for me now. I always grew up thinking forgiveness is all about the person you're forgiving. They get all the benefits of forgiveness. But I realised actually forgiveness is for me.
00:45:14 Speaker 2
Is for me as well, maybe more so.
00:45:19 Speaker 2
Because if we don't forgive, then we're just left with the gaping wound that just never heals until we do forgive.
00:45:26 Speaker 2
And so, you know, I realised that there's so much benefit to forgiveness. And so we've lived with, with forgiveness, really. And it's come up. I've had to forgive a number of times, you know as things have come up over the years.
00:45:41 Speaker 2
It wasn't a one off, you know. I've I've forgiven again and again when I think about things. But the other thing this wanted to say is about comfort. You know, people say, well, did you want answers? Well, we had all the answers.
00:45:58 Speaker 2
But we just didn't have that comfort that we desperately needed.
00:46:03 Speaker 2
And the Bible says in Corinthians one that he's the God of all comfort.
00:46:10
And.
00:46:10 Speaker 2
You know, maybe people who are listening to this story today may be dealing with grief and loss.
00:46:20 Speaker 2
And maybe you're feeling heartbroken as well today.
00:46:23 Speaker 2
But you know, he is the God of all comfort. And I came across a great quote and it says anxiety, depression and panic attacks.
00:46:35 Speaker 2
Are not a sign of weakness. There's signs of having tried to remain strong for too long. And I thought that's somebody who understands, you know, loss and being heartbroken. And sometimes, you know, we try and be strong for everybody else.
00:46:54 Speaker 2
And for me, you know, I had to be strong for Joanne had to be strong for the family.
00:47:01 Speaker 2
As I say, Mick was the pastor of the church.
00:47:05 Speaker 2
And, you know, people look to you to see how you're going to respond. You know, Mick used to go over to the local pub. He had a whole different congregation over there. They were looking. Everybody was looking to see what our response would be.
00:47:20 Speaker 2
And so we needed a lot of healing.
00:47:23 Speaker 2
At the time and, you know, God is our comfort and he can comfort like like.
00:47:30 Speaker 2
You know, not just through his word, but just his very presence. You know, people were so kind.
00:47:38 Speaker 2
We were overwhelmed with people's kindness. You know, we had bouquets of flowers left on the doorstep, you know, from people we didn't even know we had over 300 cards and letters.
00:47:51 Speaker 2
And people brought shopping to the door. I mean, it was endless visits and phone calls, just overwhelming kindness.
00:48:00 Speaker 2
But none of it could touch the pain I was in.
00:48:03 Speaker 2
I'm speaking personally now, but obviously for Mech as well, and the family, everybody who knew Paul couldn't believe it really, but the pain was so deep and it was only God could go deeper than that pain.
00:48:18 Speaker 2
To bring that measure of healing that I needed. And people are wonderful as well. People are so kind, but really we need that encounter. I think with them, with God, to get the comfort that we need and to get that measure of healing.
00:48:33 Speaker 2
And someone for stead and says he heals the broken horses and binds up their wounds. And that's been so true.
00:48:44 Speaker 2
If I can take you on a bit more now to our story, I was actually working at the time in a residential place for elderly people.
00:48:55 Speaker 2
And this was two weeks later I decided. I think I'm going to go back to work because I wanted some normality. If there was such a thing after.
00:49:08 Speaker 2
I couldn't have the funeral for five weeks and so we were in this limbo, really.
00:49:14 Speaker 2
This past partly felt like limbo and I just decided to go back to work because they were all elderly.
00:49:20 Speaker 2
People and I'd been there for two years and I knew they'd be worried about me because they will have heard what happened, a job shared with a friend, and I worked 2 days and Sue work 3 days. And so I knew they'd know all about what happened and I decided to go back.
00:49:38 Speaker 2
This lady.
00:49:40 Speaker 2
Knocked on the door of the office where I was.
00:49:43 Speaker 2
And my role really was just to make sure everybody was all right all the time.
00:49:49 Speaker 2
Anyway, this lady she came in and she said I'm so sorry to hear about your son. And she began to share his story and she said, you know, my son was stabbed and died. And they never caused you did this. And she was talking about years ago.
00:50:06 Speaker 2
And as she talked, I thought I've waited for two years.
00:50:10 Speaker 2
Years and yet two people have shared really painful things with me.
00:50:16 Speaker 2
And it really began to feel like a place of privilege. You know, when people open up and they can share these things with you.
00:50:26 Speaker 2
And began to feel like a place of privilege. And you know, in Corinthians when it talks about.
00:50:33 Speaker 2
God's healing in our lives. I just go back to that scripture.
00:50:43 Speaker 2
In two Corinthians.
00:50:51 Speaker 2
I can't find it now, I'm.
00:50:52 Speaker 2
I can't find this, I won't bother, but in Corinthians it talks about the God of all comfort.
00:51:01 Speaker 2
And it goes on to say, Whoso comforts us that we're actually able to comfort others.
00:51:07 Speaker 2
And part of the reason you know that we need that comfort is to be able to help others, because you can't help other people if you haven't experienced.
00:51:17 Speaker 2
That comfort for yourself, it's impossible to really reach out to people. And I think often, you know, even in the churches, there are people who will never, ever witness or speak to people because they're still struggling themselves with things.
00:51:33 Speaker 2
And it is really a time where I hope that people who are listening will take that time to just deal with. Maybe that hurt and that pain in their lives to be able to get the comfort that they need.
00:51:47 Speaker 2
From the Lord so that they can help then others. You're free then to help. Aren't.
00:51:53 Speaker 2
It's like if you're in the water and you're struggling yourself, you can't actually help people until you're in the boat safe, and then you can reach out and help others into the boat. It's a bit like that, you know? And and I felt able even 2 weeks later, I felt able to help other people.
00:52:11 Speaker 2
Because of what God had done in that very, very short time, too many stories to tell really about God's comfort.
00:52:20 Speaker 2
Just amazing comfort. Maybe I just share one.
00:52:24 Speaker 2
You when I was going to work, I would come down in the morning and put the kettle on and and I just would look out the window as I was waiting for the kettle. And this was September now.
00:52:39 Speaker 2
As I looked out, it was pitch black, but there was just like this line of blue and I was really taken with the beauty of this blue in the sky. And I remember just saying to the Lord that's beautiful and.
00:52:54 Speaker 2
In the middle of this blue was this bright star.
00:52:57 Speaker 2
Are and I'd never really noticed stars. I think this it was different than what I'd ever seen, and I remember telling Mick about it. And I came down the next day.
00:53:13 Speaker 2
Going to work, put the kettle on.
00:53:16 Speaker 2
And a look then, and I began to look for it. And there it was, the same thing the next day, this piece of blue sky, everything else was dark around it. But just this piece of blue with this star.
00:53:28 Speaker 2
And I remember saying to Mick, I woke him up, actually. And I said you've got to come and see this *. And he just said nonchalantly, you know? Oh, it's the morning star. And I knew about the morning star, but I knew Jesus.
00:53:43 Speaker 2
Was called the Morning Star as well and.
00:53:47 Speaker 2
And again, you know, I remembered. I remember reading in revelation. Let's think about the morning star and in Revelation 2 it talks about it.
00:53:59 Speaker 2
I probably should have bought my own Bible instead of using the living Bible because it's just a bit different in here, but it goes on to talk about the morning star and it says to everyone who overcomes.
00:54:14 Speaker 2
Who to the very end keeps on doing things that please me. I'll give power over the nations and he talks about ruling them with a rod of iron. But then he goes on to say, and I will give you the morning star. And Emma notes, it said the morning star.
00:54:31 Speaker 2
Is Jesus himself heralding the dawn of a new day?
00:54:36 Speaker 2
And I just thought, yes, that's what the morning star does. It heralds the dawn of a new day.
00:54:42 Speaker 2
And it said, and Jesus is our ultimate reward. And as I thought about what I'd looked at, and as I read that Scripture.
00:54:52 Speaker 2
And Jesus is the morning star.
00:54:56 Speaker 2
I just thought, oh, I can't tell you what it did for me that day. I just felt like the Lord put on.
00:55:04 Speaker 2
Really Heavenly Show just to speak that to me, you know.
00:55:11 Speaker 2
Were overcomers and he will see me through what we were going through and the reward is Jesus himself is our ultimate reward. So he was just reminding me of this is all temporary. This life we have.
00:55:26 Speaker 2
Things that happen to us, it's all temporary.
00:55:29 Speaker 2
And that's great to know, isn't it that, you know, things aren't always going to remain the way they are?
00:55:36 Speaker 2
And so when I left work that day, after talking to these two ladies.
00:55:42 Speaker 2
I felt had a glimpse of why God allows things to happen, and I almost felt like God trusted us with story like he trusted us because he knew what our our, our would be.
00:55:56 Speaker 2
We didn't know because you don't know until you're in the situation how you respond. But you know, he knew what our response would be. And I felt like as well as us trusting him, you know, I felt maybe he could trust us.
00:56:11 Speaker 2
With this, because I never, I've never questioned from that date of this. Why? Because of things that happened. I remember saying Lord in two days two people have shared such painful things. Is there anyone else?
00:56:27 Speaker 2
And that prayer, the floodgates opened. It's one of those prayers that just happened. And you remember, God had said to me, will you trust and follow me?
00:56:39 Speaker 2
And six weeks later, I heard about a meeting called impact on crime and impact stood for in Merseyside Police and church together.
00:56:49 Speaker 2
And because of what we were going through, this was just six weeks later, I decided to go along. I felt there's something there for me. I need to hear this. What's God doing with the police and the church?
00:57:03 Speaker 2
We still were very much in touch with the police all the time. They were amazing. They kept us up to date. They visited us often and kept encouraging us with information and we would say, you know, we're praying for you.
00:57:18 Speaker 2
And.
00:57:20 Speaker 2
You know, they would say we'll keep on praying because this case is different, they said. Normally we don't in that area where Paul was killed, we don't get information from people, they they hate the police, but we were getting information from.
00:57:35 Speaker 2
And she said so, you know, keep praying. So that was really encouraging. So we had those things in our minds as well. So Mick didn't come with me. I went along with one of the elders from the church to this meeting because Mick had something else on.
00:57:50 Speaker 2
But I just felt there was something for me there and.
00:57:56 Speaker 2
As it turned out, you know at that meeting.
00:58:01 Speaker 2
They said, you know, we're going to pray for the police and for crime issues and we haven't prayed as we should have done as as church. And there were lots of churches, lots of people there, probably a few 100 people. And there were uniforms in the meeting as well police uniforms.
00:58:19 Speaker 2
And Norman Besseson was chief of police at the time.
00:58:22 Speaker 2
They presented him with the Bible and said we commit to praying for you and for the police.
00:58:28 Speaker 2
And then they said we're looking for prayer coordinators who will be given a link person in the police who will give them things and pro requests to get it out to the churches to pray.
00:58:43 Speaker 2
And they said if you're interested, you know, or want to know more, come to another meeting, which we did.
00:58:50 Speaker 2
And when I went to the other meeting, of course, the people in that church, they knew what's happened to us. And so I said.
00:58:58 Speaker 2
Now I feel this is my way forward. It was like God put something in my hands to do.
00:59:06 Speaker 2
You know to to move forward with our lives because my job in Blake Court where I worked was it was a very old building and they were all getting moved very shortly. So my job was coming to an end there and then this came up and I just thought God's timing.
00:59:23 Speaker 2
Paul dying and this stage we were at now and my job coming to an end and I just knew this was trust and follow and this was God's guidance.
00:59:34 Speaker 2
And I just thought, well, his perfect. His timing was just perfect. And so I became a prayer coordinator.
00:59:42 Speaker 2
With impact and my role was what I wanted to make it really. And so as I went round churches of every denomination over the years I'm I'm still doing this today. Guessing prayer requests from the police.
00:59:58 Speaker 2
All sorts of opportunities opened up.
01:00:02 Speaker 2
And I began not just asking them to pray for crime, but also able to shame a testimony Emma story with youth leaders, you know, all sorts of meetings I would meet with the leaders in a church who led prayer meetings, you know, when people like that. And it was just.
01:00:21 Speaker 2
Amazing opportunities went into schools, things on the media as well. All sorts of opportunities came.
01:00:29 Speaker 2
But it was four years later, and I often think back.
01:00:34 Speaker 2
Something else came into my life which I don't know whether I would have coped earlier than this four years later. Again, God's timing I felt was just perfect. He lets us get used to working with the police and what we were doing with the police.
01:00:48 Speaker 2
And I thought that was the whole vision and I was so content with this. I was so enjoying what it was doing. And you tend to think that you'll always be doing what you're doing at the time you'll always be.
01:01:02 Speaker 2
But you know, God keeps moving us on, doesn't he? And I went along to a funeral, actually. And it was a lady on our mailing list. Their church would pray for the police, and she knew our story.
01:01:17 Speaker 2
And had been to her ladies meeting to share many times. And her husband died. And it was his funeral. And I went along and she introduced me to this man, Chris from prison fellowship, which I'd never heard of.
01:01:33 Speaker 2
And she said, you know, well, you're you're working with the police, he's working with prisoners. And she just sort of left us to it. And I marvelled at the fact that this was her husband's funeral. And yet she was still thinking of other people.
01:01:48 Speaker 2
And she introduced us and for me again, it was just God's intervention that, you know, I should meet this man.
01:01:56 Speaker 2
He said he'd heard our story and he worked for this Christian organisation prison fellowship, and he said, you know, we have this restorative justice course called the Sycamore Tree, which is based on Luke 19, with Zacchaeus, who climbed the Sycamore tree to see Jesus.
01:02:15 Speaker 2
And they talk about his crime, if you like. And and they use this as, you know, a study. And they use this on the course.
01:02:24 Speaker 2
And they said it's a sick week six week course. It's all about restorative justice, which I didn't know anything about that either.
01:02:32 Speaker 2
But it's just a new approach, really. Instead of, you know, putting people in prison, but actually.
01:02:40 Speaker 2
Getting offenders and victims together.
01:02:43 Speaker 2
And.
01:02:44 Speaker 2
And that's what restorative justice was to bring people together. The one who committed a crime and the victim of crime together on this.
01:02:53 Speaker 2
And they said on week 3:00 we we invite somebody in to share their story about what happened has happened to them and they said would you be willing to come to Liverpool prison and Share your story on Week 3?
01:03:07 Speaker 2
And so I agreed to go and not thinking too much about it, but I suppose the more I think about it, you know, it was the natural progression really from the police to working with prisoners. But it was going to be a couple of months away.
01:03:25 Speaker 2
The day came for me to go to Liverpool.
01:03:27 Speaker 2
Prison and I began to feel sorry, then that I said yes.
01:03:33 Speaker 2
I was very nervous, very anxious and I must admit it's a 10 minute walk from the car park up to the gate where you go in the prison. And I was praying all the way up that road and saying, you know, Lord.
01:03:49 Speaker 2
Just get me through this. I don't know what to expect.
01:03:53 Speaker 2
Just get me through this and I'm praying then as I came in and it really felt like meeting the people who killed Paul, I began to think about who am I going to be meeting, you know, awesome, awesome. Done. And all this sort of thing. I've never been in a prison before.
01:04:10 Speaker 2
A man's prison and I was a woman, you know. And. And I was walked in and met the team of these people from prison fellowship who were going to be.
01:04:19 Speaker 2
Written this this afternoon.
01:04:22 Speaker 2
And then we made our way up to the Chapel. And as we're walking through the prison, it was so noisy. Of course, there's no carpets, no lifts. It's all very noisy floor people moving from one place to another. And.
01:04:38 Speaker 2
Officers shouting instructions to the men and it's just very, very noisy and you're going up flights of stairs as well to the Chapel where this course was going to be. And as I walked in, it was as I walked along, even before I got to the Chapel.
01:04:54 Speaker 2
Could feel the tears and I just thought, oh.
01:04:58 Speaker 2
God, you know I.
01:04:59 Speaker 2
Don't know what I'm going to be like.
01:05:01 Speaker 2
And I walk through a door and it said life a unit. And I thought, Oh my goodness, imagine coming to prison when you've been arrested and you have to walk through that door when you've been given.
01:05:17 Speaker 2
Life, you know, life sentence. And I began to see the reality of what these people in prison really were were dealing with.
01:05:26 Speaker 2
Anyway, as we came into the Chapel, the men hadn't arrived yet, so we had a time of prayer.
01:05:33 Speaker 2
And I said, I'm really sorry, I said I'll probably cry, you know, they said it's fine. You know, whatever that happens, happens. And so as they arrived, these men walked in the first one who walked.
01:05:49 Speaker 2
Had very dark eyes and he looked like a shell, you know, he just looked vacant and he looked over at me and sort of scowled.
01:05:59 Speaker 2
And I thought, oh, Lord, what should people brought me to anyway? He sat down and there was 15 men and they just sat in a semicircle.
01:06:09 Speaker 2
And I just thought.
01:06:13 Speaker 2
Oh, they're probably, you know, they're going to be swearing. You know they won't be interested in anything. I have to say because I just thought that's what prison's like, you know, they're just all these. You only know really what the media tell us, but I just expect all these people they've done awful things. And you know, they won't. They won't really want to know.
01:06:33 Speaker 2
But it came time for me to share the story, and I sobbed my way through the story, and the men never moved a muscle. Not a peep out of any of them. And I just began to relax.
01:06:48 Speaker 2
After it shared what had happened, I went into all the detail of everything. There were things that I needed to talk about, but I wouldn't do it with family or friends, not even with me. There were just things I needed to talk about, and I thought, you know what?
01:07:04 Speaker 2
These are just the people I need to talk to because they understand because they're they've done similar things.
01:07:11 Speaker 2
And so I began to just really, I was so vulnerable there. And sometimes we think we have to be these strong people. We know we're Christians. We always have to be strong in a situation. Well, I was anything but that here.
01:07:27 Speaker 2
And I just I relaxed and I just talked to them. And I remember thinking, you know?
01:07:34 Speaker 2
They thought, you know, they were nervous about meeting me, which I didn't realise till later. You know, they thought I'd be angry. So in a sense, we disarmed each other. You know, they thought I was going to be angry and I wasn't.
01:07:48 Speaker 2
And I thought they would swear and be disinterested, but they weren't. They were hanging on every word I was saying, and I just thought this is amazing. You know, I've turned up and there's a ready, literally, you know, a congregation of people.
01:08:05 Speaker 2
Who were there to hear my story? And so I had the freedom to share my testimony, and I shared about forgiveness and I shared about the comfort that God gave.
01:08:19 Speaker 2
And I can remember just looking out because at first the heads were all down, you know. But when I began to talk about the Lord and forgiveness, all of a sudden the heads would come.
01:08:30 Speaker 2
And they'd look at you and they would, you know, you could see God was just all over all of these people.
01:08:40 Speaker 2
And as I began to talk about the Lord, the tears.
01:08:43 Speaker 2
And I began to just. So I've never enjoyed sharing the gospel so much in my life because they were so deceptive and so responsive, and I wasn't expecting everything that happened.
01:08:55 Speaker 2
I was just so surprised really. But as I looked out.
01:09:00 Speaker 2
You know, in Scripture it talks about Jesus looking out over Jerusalem, you know, and he was. He was moved with compassion. It says. And he said they were like sheep without a shepherd. And as I looked out at these men.
01:09:16 Speaker 2
And relieving us as I'm saying it, I could just see these broken people, you know, they've done terrible things, but they were probably victims and I know now from years later.
01:09:27 Speaker 2
Most of them are victims as well.
01:09:31 Speaker 2
And they were just broken people. And I could see a few emotional people as well.
01:09:39 Speaker 2
And God just gave me such a love for them, and it was so surprising because I expected not to feel the way I felt.
01:09:49 Speaker 2
I didn't know. I just thought I'd go in and share the story and go. But they just really touch my heart and these men of all ages and afterwards, you know, they came up to me and they thanked me. They hugged me and they treated me like the Queen Mother. You know, I felt like everybody's mother.
01:10:09 Speaker 2
You know the last of them are young men. Some of them had.
01:10:12 Speaker 2
The hairstyle to pour some of them were similar to look at.
01:10:16 Speaker 2
And I suppose I just missed having, you know, only had one son and one daughter. And I missed having Paul there. And but I just felt like everybody's mum.
01:10:30 Speaker 2
And one of them said, you know, if I heard your story years ago, I would never have reoffended.
01:10:36 Speaker 2
I thought, Oh my goodness.
01:10:39 Speaker 2
And I really took it to heart, you know, another one said. Who knows, miss, they call you miss? Who knows, miss, you could even save lives.
01:10:50 Speaker 2
And actually, over the years, that has been true because there was another man in another prison who said.
01:10:59 Speaker 2
He heard my story in the morning and that evening his son had been attacked.
01:11:05 Speaker 2
With a crowbar, 5 people attacked his son with crowbars really hurt him badly, but he hadn't died.
01:11:12 Speaker 2
And he said I would have had them seen to if I hadn't have heard your story that morning. He said. So he said you've actually, you know, he said I can't forgive them, he said. But I've told them he got word to them that he's going to let it go.
01:11:27 Speaker 2
Because, he said I thought about what you said.
01:11:31 Speaker 2
And I just thought, you know, and that's happened, you know, we've I've heard all the stories over the years. And you began to see the power of testimony and the power of your story.
01:11:43 Speaker 2
And then you get that glimpse of why God allows he heals you so that you can help others. And even though I've solved my way through my story for many years, going into prison as.
01:11:54 Speaker 2
I.
01:11:55 Speaker 2
Went in, I remember saying.
01:11:57 Speaker 2
You know, please God, just get me through this thought. It was a one off. After that encounter, I can only call it an encounter.
01:12:07 Speaker 2
I I came out and I was driving home and I had to stop the car several times and just say God, please bring me back. Please bring me back.
01:12:19 Speaker 2
A ready made you know people turn up to hear the gospel, and I thought I could be years trying to reach people where I can just go in. And so I've now. I've been doing this for 18 years now.
01:12:34 Speaker 2
I've been into over 30 prisons, just just on 31 prisons.
01:12:38 Speaker 2
Have done 221 of these courses now.
01:12:41 Speaker 2
The years.
01:12:42 Speaker 2
And they're just this six week course and they just go in on Week 3 and then I get to go back on Week 6, which I didn't realise that's at the time. But this first time, you never forget the first time, do you, when you do something. And I went back on week 6.
01:12:58 Speaker 2
And they came in like long lost family.
01:13:02 Speaker 2
You know.
01:13:04 Speaker 2
And they had name badges on so I could call them by name and and it was like meeting mates, you know.
01:13:11 Speaker 2
I was surprised how quickly you can get to know people when you know you've only got a certain amount of time with them.
01:13:17 Speaker 2
You make every second count you know and and you just do mainly listening to them.
01:13:24 Speaker 2
But over the years, I just love going into prisons and it's become.
01:13:32 Speaker 2
Really, at the place of most comfort. And I thought only God could know that going into a prison would be a place of comfort for somebody who's had this unlimited only God.
01:13:46 Speaker 2
You know, could have known that because people say I don't know how you can do that when you think what's happened to you. And I say, well, I would have said the same listening to my story of somebody else said that, I think there's no way I could, but you don't.
01:14:02 Speaker 2
Until you're in that situation, what God will do, and I just want to really close, really, I suppose, by saying, you know, maybe God's calling you to a new work and you're afraid to do it like I was.
01:14:15 Speaker 2
But you know, I think if I just stop going, I would have missed so much over these years, so.
01:14:24 Speaker 2
It's not what happens to us, you know, it's what we do with what happens to us. That's the important thing.
01:14:30 Speaker 2
God is absolutely trustworthy. He has been faithful.
01:14:35 Speaker 2
Everything I've needed, he's equipped me.
01:14:37 Speaker 2
Four and to the world, it might look like a mess because it was a mess. I was vulnerable. I was weak, sobbing. But it was powerful. You know, when we're weak, sometimes we need to be that vulnerable person. God uses our weaknesses.
01:14:54 Speaker 2
That's the thing that surprised me. God's used my weakness, not my strength. And I just want to leave that verse in proverbs with you. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understanding.
01:15:08 Speaker 2
But in all your ways, acknowledge him and he will direct your paths.
01:15:15 Speaker 2
So that's where we're up to today and I'm still doing this.
01:15:18 Speaker 4
It's hard to know where to begin. It's such a powerful story, and it's still going on today. Like you said, you're still going in the prisons and it's just amazing.
01:15:29 Speaker 4
You know, God can just turn a situation into his good. It's just so powerful and it's a really good reminder, isn't it?
01:15:38 Speaker 3
Definitely. Yeah, definitely.
01:15:40 Speaker 4
Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing.
01:15:43 Speaker 4
I think you said it.
01:15:44
Sorry.
01:15:46 Speaker 2
Was. I know there's a lot of, you know, things you might have to add is.
01:15:50 Speaker 4
That's amazing. It's brilliant.
01:15:51 Speaker 3
No, none at all. No. Maybe that's act as it was. It was a great story.
01:15:54 Speaker 4
Yeah, it's so good. It was amazing. It's it's just.
01:15:57 Speaker 2
So what you could share, but you know I think, well, I don't know how long people are willing to listen. So you don't want it to be too long. And I've probably given too much.
01:16:07 Speaker 2
I brought things to read out.
01:16:08 Speaker 2
All sorts but.
01:16:09 Speaker 4
It was brilliant what you said. It was really good, really good.
01:16:13 Speaker 2
Thank you so much for the opportunity and it's lovely to put a face.
01:16:16 Speaker 2
The.
01:16:16 Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah, it's a it surprises me every time we do this that we get to meet people and just it's just been really like, amazing getting to meet people online.
01:16:27 Speaker 4
Do all this.
01:16:28 Speaker 3
Definitely it's a it's it's a blessing, really to hear everybody's stories and yours is so powerful as well.
01:16:30 Speaker 4
Yeah.
01:16:33 Speaker 4
Yeah.
01:16:35 Speaker 3
What's what's the future for you? What? What are you going to continue doing the the prison ministry?
01:16:40 Speaker 3
Still empty single.
01:16:42 Speaker 2
And yes, I mean Mick was doing it for he actually stepped down from being a pastor because we were out more than we were in.
01:16:52 Speaker 2
And he was coming into the prisons with me for many years. We did it together.
01:16:58 Speaker 2
But now he's 75 coming up and I'm 72 now, but I can't imagine not doing it, but I'll just keep doing this until I can't, you know.
01:17:10 Speaker 2
But I just. There's nothing I love more than you know. I've got a few more going in. You know, the rest of this month as well and some of them like Belfast, you know, I go to over nicer's, you know.
01:17:24 Speaker 2
3 prisons in Belfast over, you know, 3 days and it's been amazing to you know, because your story is your story and everybody has a story, don't they? People like to hear stories.
01:17:37 Speaker 2
But every time I can say I don't think there's been one time that it's been any different to that first time, you know, I just see the Holy Spirit keeping the retention. I'm always shocked that never hear a peep, not a peep. And I can talk for like, 40 minutes.
01:17:54 Speaker 2
45 minutes. Just sharing what happened.
01:17:58 Speaker 2
And then they go up. They have to have a cigarette after.
01:18:01 Speaker 2
You know.
01:18:02 Speaker 2
Go out with and we have. We have a break and we have a cup of tea and then you get a chance to chat to them, you know? And they're just like.
01:18:10 Speaker 2
And it's God, you know, like on week six, they give me things, you know, things they've made. And because you, I often think, well is is it Paul the the taken in the story. But actually I think it's more the gospel to hear.
01:18:24 Speaker 2
No, because they I get crosses and things with, you know, versus the scripture on or hymns, all sorts of things, I think, yeah, if.
01:18:35 Speaker 2
The gossip, you know, they've heard the gospel, though.
01:18:39 Speaker 4
They could be hearing something completely new from you, which is the gospel, but also they're experiencing probably an overwhelming sense of love for someone to come in and talk about forgiveness and love. And that's probably really new, isn't it as well?
01:18:39
But that.
01:18:53 Speaker 2
Oh, they're shocked because they don't expect forgiveness. You know the chaplain on that first time, the chaplain said to me they were all from the life of Eunice, which I didn't know.
01:18:53 Speaker 4
Yeah.
01:19:04 Speaker 2
And one of them, one of them hadn't turned up because he tried to commit suicide.
01:19:09 Speaker 2
Tried to hang himself.
01:19:11 Speaker 2
And you just think this is everyday life for them? She just said it matter of factly almost.
01:19:19 Speaker 2
Shocked and I thought this is 20 minutes from where I live. We're in a church and we knew not think about any of this, you know. So but it's it's precious to me.
01:19:32 Speaker 2
You know, it's so precious because testimony they overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony testimony is so important, isn't it? Especially nowadays people are going through such dreadfully painful things and they're looking for hope, aren't they? And that's what this does, I think.
01:19:51 Speaker 2
Not just me, but other people go in and share as victims of crime as well, but somehow, when it's a murder, you've got the retention right away. Whereas if it's a burglary, as bad as that is to them, it's.
01:20:04 Speaker 2
You know, I think.
01:20:05 Speaker 2
Because of the severity of the crime as well.
01:20:07 Speaker 2
As well because they don't know until I say this is what happened, you know.
01:20:14 Speaker 2
And I and I forgot to include that didn't I didn't actually tell you.
01:20:19 Speaker 2
Paul just was going to a friend's house and.
01:20:25 Speaker 2
As I say, he was should have been away, but he wasn't. And so he was meeting up with his cousin and he went to have a drink.
01:20:31 Speaker 2
And because he'd had a drink.
01:20:34 Speaker 2
He left his car and he went to visit another friend and unfortunately the taxi driver was new and didn't know the road where Paul was going to and Paul just said I know it's around here somewhere. Just let me out here and these two lads just approached him.
01:20:50 Speaker 2
And simply asked him for a light which Paul wouldn't have thought anything of that he still had light in his hand and and they stabbed him in the back.
01:21:00 Speaker 2
And punched him and cut him here. He had stitches here when we went to identify him.
01:21:07 Speaker 2
And he died at the scene. You know, he bled to death. And but the two lads, they were 20 and 23, and they've never shown any remorse.
01:21:17 Speaker 2
But the police said that they'd been in trouble earlier, threatening somebody with a knife. And if only they were arrested earlier, it wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't have happened.
01:21:29 Speaker 2
But you know that, as I say, they they were high on drugs, they would be drinking all day and they were armed with weapons.
01:21:36 Speaker 2
So the police said, you know, if it wasn't Paul, it would have been somebody else that night because that was just the mood they were in.
01:21:43 Speaker 2
And when they've done it, they, some witness said they ran off laughing about it, you know? And so I thought when we saw them in the course, there'll be difference. They'll be mortified by what they've done. But they were just winking at their family.
01:21:58 Speaker 2
It was probably bravado, a loss of US, you know, prisoners have said that to me. You do that in front of people, but when they're on their own, you know they won't be like that.
01:22:08 Speaker 2
And so one was given 12 years tariff set of 12 years and he committed another offence on a day release. And so I'm not sure whether he's still in it's 22 years now, but I don't know whether where he is now.
01:22:24 Speaker 2
But the other one, the main one, really, he got five years and was out in three, and that came across as manslaughter, but to me they were both equally responsible, you know.
01:22:40 Speaker 2
Yeah. So you know, we miss him. Obviously you never get over something like that, but he's shown us the way through. And while you go in, if God puts ink in your hands to do.
01:22:52 Speaker 2
Then that sustains you. He sustains you through. So I don't say I'm living with learning to live with the pain. I learn to live with the comforts, and that's how you get through life. Because I didn't know how I get through the next 10 minutes when it happened. You know, it was like.
01:23:09 Speaker 2
By our.
01:23:10 Speaker 2
But you know my my relationship with God just changed because I didn't need him or his comfort to that degree ever before. And so my relationship went far, far deeper. And it was like I was on the 1st rung of the ladder again it was.
01:23:27 Speaker 2
This is.
01:23:27 Speaker 2
New life almost. You know, we had all that history.
01:23:31 Speaker 2
But it was like my relationship was different. It was deeper and the grief really brought an intimacy, a deeper intimacy. So we I don't think we should ever be afraid.
01:23:43 Speaker 2
Of those things, because it.
01:23:46 Speaker 2
Take you deeper into God. I would say I have more in God now than I had before.
01:23:52 Speaker 2
You know, you just learn so much more about not just about God, but about yourself as well.
01:23:58 Speaker 2
Because sometimes I think he just showed me my own hearts because.
01:24:02 Speaker 2
We say don't we? You know what we love God. But then when this happened, I remember saying to the Lord, Lord, Lord, Lord.
01:24:11 Speaker 2
There was one time when Paul was very late coming in and I was like after midnight and I'm looking up and down the road for Paul, don't know how old he'd be, and I remember saying to the Lord if anything's happened to Paul, Lord, I don't know how I'll feel about you.
01:24:27 Speaker 2
I can remember saying that, and this was years before, and the minute I said it, I felt aggrieved. The Lord, I just remember the incident that came up in my mouth. I said I'm sorry, Lord, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that.
01:24:41 Speaker 2
But when I was on my knees in the bathroom and I said to the Lord, you know, when I said that two years ago, if anything happens to Paul, I don't know how I'll feel. I just want you to know I still love you with all my heart.
01:24:54 Speaker 2
And that was the first thing before everything else, I'd forgotten about that till just now.
01:25:00 Speaker 2
I said remember I said that you know, but he showed me my heart that. Yeah, I did. Really love him, you know? And he was, yeah. Loving more than ever, you know, because some people go away and blame God, don't they?
01:25:14 Speaker 2
But I never ever felt that, you know, I just loved him for the way he comforted and sustained.
01:25:23
It's amazing.
01:25:25 Speaker 3
It's amazing. It seems that a lot of your life you just had.
01:25:30 Speaker 3
Just a relationship with with your father in heaven. Like the way you talk about God is you just have you just you just chat to him and he chats back to you. You talk to him.
01:25:42 Speaker 3
And I I just think that's lovely about your story.
01:25:44 Speaker 3
And I would love. I feel like that as well about God, I feel.
01:25:48 Speaker 3
I can talk to God and he talks to me.
01:25:49 Speaker 3
Back, but not everyone has that relationship. When I talk to people and how can they have what's yours? Have you got any tips or?
01:26:01 Speaker 2
It's just actually spending the time, I think just making the time to come aside. You know, I did all my grieving really on my own with the Lord, you know?
01:26:11 Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:26:13 Speaker 2
And it's just getting to know him. Really. You just have to get to know him to get that relationship that we want. But from that response in the beginning at that meeting with that missionary going forward was that symbolic act of going forward and then.
01:26:30 Speaker 2
Opening my life, you know, they just prayed with us and sent us on our way. And then other people sort of spoke into our lives along the years. But originally just it was just.
01:26:41 Speaker 2
One minute I didn't know when the next minister just knew.
01:26:44 Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:26:45 Speaker 2
He just it's revelation, isn't it? Really? Just God by the Holy Spirit, revealing himself to us. And if we have the desire to know God, which I didn't particularly.
01:26:47 Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:26:56 Speaker 2
You know.
01:26:58 Speaker 2
He gave me the desire really through that Lady and.
01:27:03 Speaker 2
But I didn't have a desire really to know God because I thought it was religion. But actually it's not religion. It's a living relationship with with Father God. And it was like coming home, I suppose, to oh, this is what was meant in the Garden of Eden was meant. This is the way.
01:27:21 Speaker 2
He used to walk in the cool of the day with Adam and talk to him. You know, this is the relationship. God is just after a relationship with.
01:27:29 Speaker 2
And that's amazing to me that he'd even want that relationship because sometimes people don't like themselves, do they? But God wants to spend time with us, you know. And. And I think that that's lovely of him, that he wants to do that.
01:27:44 Speaker 2
So yeah, it's just.
01:27:47 Speaker 2
It's been brilliant, you know, I've certainly lived life.
01:27:50 Speaker 2
It's been bored not being boring.
01:27:50 Speaker 3
What happened to this? What happened to the? No, no, no. It sounds exciting. I mean, another part of your story I thought was incredible was the house with the 30 rooms that God gave you.
01:28:01 Speaker 3
Which he clearly gave you £50.
01:28:03 Speaker 4
Was that, yeah, when you it was up for 50,000, but you offered 50 lbs.
01:28:05
It would.
01:28:08 Speaker 2
But we didn't.
01:28:09 Speaker 2
It was in a trust, so it couldn't be sold, but it was in a trust. But something had to happen with it. But nobody wanted to buy it, but we never actually knew what it was worth or what they were asking or anything, because it was interest.
01:28:23 Speaker 2
But they just said when they heard what we wanted to do with it.
01:28:26 Speaker 2
You know, just offer them 50 and we thought, well, it can't be 50 lbs. It's got to be 50,000. And they said no just that's for 50. And when they accepted it, you just think you know.
01:28:31 Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:28:34 Speaker 3
It's amazing, yeah.
01:28:37 Speaker 4
Yeah. And the green room as well. That's. I just thought this is exactly what God's like. He will do that if you ask him. That's the relationship you're talking about. If you ask him, he will reveal these things and he will talk to you like that. And. And we need that sometimes as humans don't we? We need these little things.
01:28:55 Speaker 4
And that you have done.
01:28:56 Speaker 3
What happened to the house in the end? What's happened to it now?
01:28:59 Speaker 2
And will we left off left after seven years?
01:29:04 Speaker 2
And it became a nursery.
01:29:07 Speaker 2
Became a nursery in the end.
01:29:11 Speaker 2
So we left all the people we prayed in other people, and when we left because we felt there came a day when we felt our time was up there, that we'd done everything we could in a sense. And I felt really bad about leaving it.
01:29:24 Speaker 2
And I remember going around all the rooms, saying goodbye almost, you know, because it was such an important part of our lives. And we'd seen such amazing things there and.
01:29:37 Speaker 2
I was actually in hospital one time, not long after, and I remember.
01:29:44 Speaker 2
Thinking about them and, you know and house fell. I remember saying to the Lord I did feel bad about leaving that Lord. After all you gave us, you know. And the Lord spoke to me in hospital and said that's not what I've called you to.
01:29:58 Speaker 2
Anna that.
01:29:58 Speaker 2
Such a relief to me because I always thought I always had that second emotion about leaving, as if I hope we've done the right thing. But we were. We just felt we'd run out in a sense of, you know, what? And we needed to be challenged again.
01:30:15 Speaker 2
You know, we were getting stale. We were given everything we had and we needed to move on, but we didn't really know what.
01:30:24 Speaker 2
What other things you know, obviously came up.
01:30:28 Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:30:29 Speaker 4
Yeah, one more thing. I think if there's anyone listening and they want to get involved with the prison ministry and can you can you do that, you have to be invited or can you can you actually do?
01:30:39 Speaker 2
Got a website? Yeah. Prisoner fellowship. Have a website. OK, I'll have to get that to you. Yeah, if you go on prison.
01:30:47 Speaker 2
It'll come up.
01:30:49 Speaker 2
I can't think of the website.
01:30:50 Speaker 4
That's OK, we can add it.
01:30:51 Speaker 3
That's OK. We're at it in as well. We're at.
01:30:53 Speaker 4
That in as well just I think it's really inspiring and I think we actually did a podcast before this one with someone that met Jesus in prison and it is like there is so many broken people in prison. And I just think, gosh, this is where Jesus.
01:30:53 Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:31:04
The Hobbit.
01:31:10 Speaker 4
If he is here now hanging out, and I wonder if there is people that have really been inspired by the ministry you're doing and whether they can get involved, you know, a lot of people.
01:31:12 Speaker 3
Definitely, yeah.
01:31:20 Speaker 2
I'm sure.
01:31:22 Speaker 2
Yeah, they're always looking. They're all volunteers. All prison fellowship. Yeah, all volunteers.
01:31:28 Speaker 2
And a lot of them. I'm one of the younger ones because the retired sector are those with the time to do it, because everybody seems to work now, don't they? So.
01:31:40 Speaker 2
And you are they say you either love us for you hate it. You know, I think when you go in, they just treat people so like the grandparents, you know, the older ones who go in as volunteers, the men just grab.
01:31:53 Speaker 2
It's, you know, it's like grandma that you know, because a lot of them have grown up with grandparents, you know?
01:32:00 Speaker 2
In their lives, and they do really respect you and you're never on your own, you know? So there's No Fear involved in any of that. Yeah.
01:32:10 Speaker 2
Just going in and they appreciate it so much.
01:32:13 Speaker 4
Sound like you're at home in prison now?
01:32:16 Speaker 2
I am various hope in prison, yeah.
01:32:19 Speaker 4
Considering you were actually petrified the first time, it's so funny. How good does that, isn't it and just changes that.
01:32:26 Speaker 2
Just that first time I just changed, yeah.
01:32:29 Speaker 2
Only God, but that needed to happen, didn't this that needed to happen in me to be able to do what to do, but just can't imagine doing anything else, you know.
01:32:42 Speaker 4
Let's say Co.
01:32:43 Speaker 4
And we'd love you to pray for anyone that's listening, whether they I don't know whether they can listen to this in prison, maybe they're listening or they've lost a child or somebody in their family. They're close with. If you could just pray for them and.
01:32:59 Speaker 4
And yeah, we'll finish. Thank you so much.
01:33:02 Speaker 2
OK.
01:33:05 Speaker 2
Father, we thank you that you are our Heavenly Father. We thank you that Lord, when things seem chaotic and so unreal. I thank you, father, that you are fully in control of everything that happens.
01:33:20 Speaker 2
Lord, nothing takes you by surprise. And Lord, we thank you that you sent your son to die for us, Lord, that we might come to know you.
01:33:29 Speaker 2
And I just pray father, for all those Lord who may be listening to this story.
01:33:35 Speaker 2
Father of your faithfulness and your goodness and your help and your hope. Lord everything that you've done. Lord, I pray that you will be to each one personally. Lord, what they need at this time.
01:33:48 Speaker 2
For any Lord going through loss and who feel in despair and a struggling Lord, I pray that you'd reveal yourself by the Holy Spirit. Lord, that you just reveal yourself to their hearts, that they might know you.
01:34:03 Speaker 2
Lord, as we come to you, we know that. Then we find life, Lord and light in the darkness.
01:34:03
I.
01:34:10 Speaker 2
Where this death Lord? We'll see life and where there's darkness, we see light.
01:34:15 Speaker 2
Lord, we thank you for the hope that you can give us for the future. Lord and I just pray that your guide each and everyone, Lord.
01:34:23 Speaker 2
Who are listening that they might know you in their lives and that they might commit themselves to you, Lord, as you commit yourself to us father, and take responsibility for our lives.
01:34:24
The.
01:34:36 Speaker 2
We just thank you for all your goodness. Lord, thank you. That it's your goodness that leads us to repentance. It's when you're kind and you're good Lord, that it just touches us, father, when we know what we're life.
01:34:49 Speaker 2
We thank you that you're a merciful God and a loving father, and I just ask your blessing on every home represented. Lord, every person who hears this Lord that you will touch them in the way that they need to be touched.
01:35:05 Speaker 2
In the precious name of Jesus, we ask.
01:35:09 Speaker 3
Amen. Amen.
01:35:18 Speaker 1
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