Learn how Mark Malcein, a financial advisor who overcame the challenges of the 2008 crisis and now manages $190 million in assets, has succeeded through perseverance and smart investing. Mark shares his insights on making small, regular investments, such as biweekly contributions to 403b plans, and how these can lead to significant growth over time. In this detailed episode, he discusses his approach to client management, using financial tools like eMoney, and his dedication to providing personalized financial planning services for free.
Discover the effective strategies Malcein and his team use to prioritize tasks and delegate responsibilities. They explain how their teamwork and strategic planning have transformed their practice from a one-person operation to a thriving, client-focused team. Malcein's practical advice and personal stories will inspire financial professionals at any level to apply these strategies for their own success.
Finally, Malcein talks about the future of financial advising, including the importance of succession planning and adapting to changes in client relationships across generations. He highlights the role of mentorship and strategic partnerships in ensuring business continuity and maintaining client trust. Malcein also shares his thoughts on achieving a work-life balance in today's world, stressing the value of staying connected with people.
This conversation with Malcein offers a wealth of knowledge and motivation for anyone looking to advance in the financial advisory field.
Learn how Mark Malcein, a financial advisor who overcame the challenges of the 2008 crisis and now manages $190 million in assets, has succeeded through perseverance and smart investing. Mark shares his insights on making small, regular investments, such as biweekly contributions to 403b plans, and how these can lead to significant growth over time. In this detailed episode, he discusses his approach to client management, using financial tools like eMoney, and his dedication to providing personalized financial planning services for free.
Discover the effective strategies Malcein and his team use to prioritize tasks and delegate responsibilities. They explain how their teamwork and strategic planning have transformed their practice from a one-person operation to a thriving, client-focused team. Malcein's practical advice and personal stories will inspire financial professionals at any level to apply these strategies for their own success.
Finally, Malcein talks about the future of financial advising, including the importance of succession planning and adapting to changes in client relationships across generations. He highlights the role of mentorship and strategic partnerships in ensuring business continuity and maintaining client trust. Malcein also shares his thoughts on achieving a work-life balance in today's world, stressing the value of staying connected with people.
This conversation with Malcein offers a wealth of knowledge and motivation for anyone looking to advance in the financial advisory field.
My name is Randy Aranowitz. I am a former president of NATSA. I've been around for too long of a period of time over 30 years as a member. I've been a financial advisor for 40 years and a past executive vice president of Cades Margolis the WowCast series we will go ahead and have discussions with members talking about all sorts of things related to our industry. We hope you enjoy the series. I am here with Mark Malsine. Mark Malsine is a certified financial planner. He's a financial advisor with US Cades Margolis and GWN Securities. Mark, welcome, I appreciate you taking the time for this WoWcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Good, randy, thanks for having me having me Our pleasure.
Speaker 1:Mark. Could you go ahead and describe your professional background?
Speaker 2:include roughly current assets under management, number of clients, et cetera. Yeah Well. So, randy, I joined Cades Margolis June 2nd 2008,. Right before the financial crisis. Um and uh.
Speaker 2:In the moment it felt like the worst time to enter the industry. Uh, now looking back, I realized how much of a blessing it was, because, as a 23 year old new financial advisor, uh, people were willing to give me a chance, essentially. So, 15 years later, I've accumulated about $190 million in assets under management. My business consists of a lot of educators giving me money every two weeks to deposit into their 403b and, in addition to the AOM that I have under management, I'm pretty proud of the actual reoccurring flow, because I kind of view that as making a big difference in younger individuals' lives, and I have about $4 million in reoccurring flow, uh, in my practice just for 3B contributions on a biweekly basis, uh, going into account. So, uh, that's just kind of uh, uh, kind of a brief overview. Kind of started with nothing. Now I have $190 million and it's it's grown much quicker than I thought it would, so it's a good problem. That's kind of where I'm at professionally.
Speaker 1:And Mark, before you started with Cades Margolis, I believe for a brief time you were with Prudential, was that correct? What were you doing there?
Speaker 2:That's correct. So I did not realize it when I was hired, but it was a 100% commission job. I honestly did not know that until about a week into the job and I was a life insurance sales guy. I also didn't really know that when I took the job. But you know, prudential has a great name behind them the Rock of Gibraltar. But you know, prudential has a great name behind them the Rock of Gibraltar. But at that time, a 22 year old kid, I just did not feel comfortable in that environment. I also felt as though they were too life insurance forward for me, where if people had other planning needs they almost got disappointed in you if you didn't figure out how to sell a life insurance policy to them. So I was with them for six months. Fortunately, I knew an advisor, actually a couple, bob and Ann Barton. They've been legacy Kadesmer Goals advisors. I knew them before joining Prudential and I called them just for advice and that's how I was connected to Cades Mergoles, essentially.
Speaker 1:If I remember the story, I think you were the bartender at one of the events that they had. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Not just one of them. For about two years. I waited tables for Cades Mergoles retirement workshops. For about two years when I was in college it was before Bob and Ann used the projector and I'd see them with her flip chart and Bob got his Sharpie out and Ann was kind of the speaker and Bob would chart things out and I really had no clue what they're talking about. But they couldn't be nicer people. They always gave me a nice tip after the event and when I graduated, when I was graduating, when I was approaching graduation, they said hey, listen, you're a nice guy. If we could help you out, if we could do anything, please let us know.
Speaker 2:And a lot of people say things like that and then kind of disappear. But you know, four months into my deal with Prudential I just knew it wasn't my long-term place to be and I called Bob and Ann and they actually invited me to their home. They had appetizers and some cocktails and you know, randy, when I say money by design, obviously you knew that that's the you know proprietary for 3B platform Kateates Mergolis has. They showed me the money by design mutual fund list and they said, oh, what mutual fund are you using at Prudential? And I honestly didn't really know that much about mutual funds at that point of my career. So it's amazing. I mean, that's the truth. I honestly didn't really know much about mutual funds at that point. Just amazing how much I've grown in that period of time. But I give a lot of credit to Bob and Ann because without their hospitality I sure wouldn't be sitting here now to right now in 2023, 15 short years to accumulate $190 million within this business.
Speaker 1:You know kudos to you with all your success and we'll certainly dive into some of that. But there's one other rumor that I heard out when you first started with Cades Mergolis that you were like Jim Cramer. At one point, jim Cramer was sleeping in his car, I believe for a brief period of time, you actually lived out of your car, maybe because he didn't realize it was a commission-only type of position. But is that true?
Speaker 2:It sure is. So on June 2nd 2008, I woke up in my childhood bedroom in Bloomsburg, pennsylvania, drove 130 miles southeast to Wayne, pennsylvania, and I had no clue where I was going to sleep that night. I had barely enough money to get myself down there in gas and you know, I remember feeling excited but kind of still wondering where the heck am I going to sleep tonight. And so, yeah, that is true, I slept. Uh, I slept behind a raymoor and flanagan in my car. Uh, the first night I woke up it was really hot. I woke up and I got on my phone to try to figure out where I could go that was maybe a little more private and secluded, that I could maybe like, actually lay down, because my second day of training was obviously coming up and I found valley forge national park and I grew up camping and enjoying the outdoors. And at that point I town, because my second day of training was obviously coming up and I found Valley Forge National Park and I grew up camping and enjoying the outdoors. And at that point I was never to Valley Forge and I just thought, well, you know, maybe I could go there. And I laid out like a towel, like a beach towel or something I just conked out.
Speaker 2:It's probably three in the morning and I woke up to a park ranger shaking me and, uh, she said you can't be here and I said I'm sorry and she was like in my memory. She was like grabbing for her handcuffs, about to like arrest me, and I said you can't arrest me. Like my second day of work is tomorrow. I'm training in like three hours. I gotta figure out where I can shower and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. It was also the time in my life where it was. My biggest responsibility was a car payment, didn't have any children, a mortgage. It was the time to take a risk in my life. Unfortunately, it paid off.
Speaker 1:And full disclosure here. I think I was a part of your training when that first happened and I had no idea that you had nowhere to sleep. We certainly would have taken care of something back then.
Speaker 2:I know you would have, and if I admitted it to my parents they would have done the same thing. But I felt like I had an opportunity in front of me and I knew I had people that would help me if I needed it. I just didn't feel like it was necessary.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, mark, let's go ahead and go into your business model. You did talk about that. You focus on 403Bs and the schools. Who's really your targeted ideal client now, as opposed to when you first started in the business, and what are the types of services and products that you offer those those prospects and clients?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say my ideal client now is someone that has probably three hundred to000 to $350,000 under management that is positioned to grow substantially, whether they're about to retire and they have a rollout from their pension system or they're married and they have a spouse that may have a different advisor or a 401k, but I'd say that's my ideal client. I've shifted away from the new 403B enrollment sort of target client. I still believe in that but I've kind of delegated that to a different advisor. But I'd say about $350,000 is kind of the sweet spot for what I'm looking for or more, and my business is primarily advisory business where I'm using a third party manager I feel for me to really serve my clients properly.
Speaker 2:I cannot be the money manager at the same time. There's a lot of weight that comes with making timely reallocations and just basic account maintenance that I don't feel like I could properly execute on. So advisory honestly became appealing to me from the financial standpoint in the beginning, where you're getting reoccurring revenue. I like that idea. But as my business grows I realized advisory is really more of a scalable tool for me. It allows me to get bigger where I could still feel I'm properly servicing my clients there.
Speaker 1:You have about how many clients Mark my clients there.
Speaker 2:You have about how many clients, mark. So whenever people ask me that question, I always kind of not that I'm dancing around the question, but I have kind of like two categories of clients. I'll describe kind of like a financial planning base of clients where I'd say I have 300 financial planning clients and then I probably have another 600 clients that you know. Not all of them are contributing to a 403B, but there are smaller clients and not really as engaged with them in terms of financial planning, possibly based on stage of life, possibly based on stage of life. So the majority of my income comes from that smaller grouping of about 300 clients there.
Speaker 2:And I use e-money. You kind of asked about what products do I use, but then what services? I use, primarily third-party money managers through various advisory platforms. But for me to really grow my business I had to figure out how do I separate myself from the pack, because there are a lot of good financial advisors out there. How could I actually differentiate myself? And I've used e-money fairly effectively even though I know I'm just scratching the surface to really get all of the assets in the household, because my main goal is not only to bring on a client but I want all the assets in the household, and I feel like e-money has allowed me to come up with a narrative that just almost makes sense from the client standpoint. If Mark's going to be a good steward of my assets, if I'm going to hire him to help me with my goals, well, of course we need to consolidate things. That's the epiphany. I want a prospect to have when I go through the financial planning process with them. So eMoney has been quite impactful in my relationship.
Speaker 1:Are you charging for financial planning services?
Speaker 2:I'm not. So our relationship with the PSEA, which is the union that endorses Cades Mergolis, does not allow us to charge for financial planning services. Not all of my clients are educators, so I could come up with a fee structure for planning, but I haven't done that. I have felt as though if you go through a proper series of meetings with clients, you can almost weed out people that aren't serious. So I have wasted some time. I guess you could say where I've built some plans and people have not decided to work with me. That has absolutely happened. But when I, for instance, host a retirement workshop, a lot of times people will request to meet with me right after that and I will require a 15 minute sort of introductory call with that individual.
Speaker 2:In the past, you know, when I was a much younger advisor, I was so eager to get in front of that person. I would drive to their house at seven o'clock at night and you know, and really just kind of go into that meeting not knowing anything about them, where now I tell them that I want to make the most of our consultation and to do that I would love to connect on the phone with you. Just understand where you are in terms of financial planning, what some of your immediate concerns are, and that really that pre-meeting makes the consultation much more powerful. But it also weeds out people that I just know just have some basic questions and because we have such a defined niche market, I honestly don't mind giving some answers. I don't mind pointing some people in the right direction if they don't have no intention of working with me. If I could be a nice guy and they talk to their colleague hey, mark Malasin's a nice guy, that's kind of a win for me as well. But I'll tell people hey, listen, it doesn't sound like you're really looking for a financial advisor. That's really what the consultation's for and I kind of wish them the best to tell them you know we're not having another meeting after the phone call. That doesn't happen that often, but enough where it really adds value.
Speaker 2:But you know, even if someone wants to work with me, I will explain some of the documents I need in advance and how I go through the financial planning process. But there's usually an immediate concern a client has. Like if someone calls you, like if a prospective client reaches out to a financial advisor, they've probably been thinking about something for maybe a few years. They just kind of got the courage to take the next step. So I always want to make sure I understand on that phone call.
Speaker 2:Is there something specific that you want to address in this meeting? Is there anything that you want to spend some real meaningful time on or something I can prepare for that will help us have a really meaningful consultation? People are just so appreciative. They almost I feel like they almost think that I'm. I don't know, maybe I'm reading this too far, but I've almost sensed that sometimes prospective clients think I'm being pretentious by not agreeing to meet with them right away, but at the end of the phone call they completely understand that I'm just trying to make the most of their time and I want to put it in my homework so I make the most of the meeting.
Speaker 1:How has earning the certified financial planner designation helped you with your confidence and with working with clients, and do you recommend for young advisors to pursue that track?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say it's helped me greatly in a very different way than I thought I I, yeah, I finished the CFP work in 2017. And you know, I just thought that everyone would kind of know what a CFP was and at the end of the day, it's industry jargon. People don't really know what a CFP is. They've heard about it. The CFP board does have a great marketing department, so enough people know. But overall, overall, the designation didn't change. Didn't change my business. It was the confidence that came behind it.
Speaker 2:For instance, this morning I had a meeting with my biggest client that has about $5 million with me. That is the spouse of a teacher. He was a physician for years and he actually called me to kind of lightly complain about his wife's account and we engaged in some meaningful, just conversation. And you know, from all of the coursework with the CFP, I just had a few nuggets that really kind of resonated with him and it got it got him thinking that he should be re-evaluating how he's managing his money and, long story short, this guy called in to complain and now he's my biggest client and I'm certain, without, just without, without that sort of training, I don't, I don't think that would have been a possibility for me. Without that sort of training I don't think that would have been a possibility for me. So it's confidence, but it's also truly knowledge, having some meaningful knowledge that people say when they have a meeting with me. I do feel like I can shine a little bit more than I did in the past, so I am a big advocate of it.
Speaker 1:You have a client service associate and, I believe, a financial advisor associate that works with you. Could you describe how you all work together so that you and they achieve their goals?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's. I've always maybe I shouldn't say always, but I've come to appreciate my weaknesses and I've tried to figure out how to put systems in place to either kind of delegate those weaknesses or just kind of lift me up where I need the help. And one of the challenges with this sort of niche market that we have it is a higher volume sort of business than maybe a high net worth advisor that's working with 50 households. We have just many more people that we're working with. So the advisor associate you mentioned, he will a lot of times be the person I will refer, a referral to. So it's very common I'll get an email. Hey, mark, you know I got your name from so-and-so. I'd love to start a 403B. You know, look forward to hearing from you.
Speaker 2:And I, you know I'm at this stage of my life now where life and career where it's hard to do it all Like to serve your clients properly. You can't bring on all of the clients. So I've kind of come up with a process where I can loop my partner into the email and say, hey, thank you so much for reaching out. My colleague Brett is on this email as well and I kind of make them feel like they're not just being pushed off but they're in good hands. Please don't hesitate to reach out to me if you have any questions, but you're in excellent hands here.
Speaker 2:A lot of it comes down to availability as well. Brett can be available much quicker than I could be available, so I've done that a lot in terms of delegating. But from a service standpoint, my assistant, megan, has kind of transformed my business in terms of being almost just as much of a touch point with my clients as I am. She kind of always gets great reviews from clients. She's friendly and prompt and I have no problem if a client has a relationship with someone else that's on my team. That's music to my ears. I've never been territorial about them needing to communicate directly with me, and I think that has helped my business greatly as well. There's a lot of important administrative tasks that if I was the point person for all of them, it would just happen much, much slower and therefore my clients wouldn't think I was this professional, I believe. So that's been a big impact as well.
Speaker 1:How do you motivate Megan and Brett to work within your practice?
Speaker 2:in your practice Well, brett. The goal for Brett is to almost become his own advisor sooner rather than later. So I think it's unrealistic for a motivated young advisor to be under my wing forever. I know if I was in my young 20s and I was given an opportunity to work with someone I knew I would have grown out of it and it would have ruined the wonderful relationship if there was one if I had that sort of thing. So I view Brett as someone that will be a stand-aside-me colleague someday, but for now he's allowed me to refer a lot of clients to him. He's taken over a lot of very important marketing activities in the territory. That I'll say.
Speaker 2:We have not just me, so it's not me sitting in the factory lounge anymore. For instance, we used to do a lot of factory lounge visits in school sort of workshops. I'm not really doing that as much. It's Brett and it's not a matter of laziness for me, it's just I. My calendar is very busy and I just cannot budget that meaningful time to those activities. So instead of me, the alternative not of not having someone like Brett is to become less competitive in the territory. All of a sudden my competitor is in the faculty lounge more and instead of my friendly colleague running into my client, it's my competitor.
Speaker 2:So it's very common Brett will say Mark, I ran into so-and-so they're thinking about retiring in two years. They'd love to schedule a meeting. Well, that's great. He just helped me out there and he also uncovered his own leads and it's kind of just a nice relationship. So that's one side of it.
Speaker 2:I've also transitioned about 250 clients to him in the past year. These are not rockstar sort of clients but it's substantial rockstar sort of clients. But you know it's substantial. You know there's probably $15 million of assets that he can work with and it's getting him networked in the territory and it allows him to fill up his schedule, which is the hardest task of any new advisor. So I am helping him do that and instead of doing a transition in our firm, a lot of advisors when they're retiring, we'll do like a five-year transition where they'll split commissions for five years and then it's done.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm 38 years old actually 39, just turned 39. I don't really want to transition business and be done with it in five years, so I will. The expectation with Brett is that, yes, you're going to have your own rep number If you find your own business. You're not going to be splitting that with me. But anything I put in that rep number you're going to split that long-term with me and we may renegotiate a contract down the road. That's totally possible. But it's kind of a long-term business relationship and I'm sure there'll be another day where I'll drop another 100 clients in that rep code where we kind of keep it going because it takes something off of my plate which is very helpful for him getting his career launched as well.
Speaker 1:I've known you for 15 years, since you've been with Cades Mergolis, and I do have to say it is so rewarding and refreshing to see where your thought process has come from in starting out in this business. And, like most of us, when we start in the business it's me, me, me, me. How do I get as much as I could get? I'm going to hold on to it for dear life and no, I'm not going to transition anything to anybody. Let them go ahead and earn their own clients, et cetera, own clients, et cetera, and to see your growth and maturity in the business, that what you're creating now is something that is very sustainable as you build and eventually, I would assume there's going to be more Bretts that will be added and possibly more Megans to it. But, mark, I just want to let you know I feel very proud that you are where you are right now.
Speaker 2:Well thanks, randy. You and I used to work a few yards away from each other and you've given me a lot of motivation over the years, and it is cool you know to. To be considered a leader in an organization is something that I don't take lightly. I think it is important to try to kind of build something that other people can kind of look at and they want to replicate it. I don't view that as me being ripped off at all, but I do feel like there is a certain weight that I kind of enjoy being a leader as well.
Speaker 1:And you certainly are. Let's go back to Megan, your client service representative. How do you motivate her and keep her involved with the business so that she wants to stay on and do the type of work that you want her to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, I think the first thing is Megan and I started working together on a full-time basis about two years ago and before then I had 20 hours of her time. She worked for another advisor for 20 hours and it worked for a number of years well. But there's something about having an individual that's just dedicated to your practice. I think you get so much more than just twice as much time. There's a kind of a dedication to the practice.
Speaker 2:I think that's important to try to almost have that tie to your practice as an advisor. So to get to a full time assistant, I think is is kind of the goal for anyone really, because it does transform things in different ways. Um, but I do try to, uh, I do try to design the comp program where she feels part of the business. Um, they're like, for instance, I give her an override, uh, based on my business, whether I'm up, down or sideways, she's just getting kind of a cut of the business. So she has her whole benefit package and kind of that tie into the business.
Speaker 2:Um, I've had certain years two years ago, for instance, when I just brought her on full time, I made a goal that I wanted to put $15 million into advisory business in the next 12 months and if I did that I was going to have kind of a special one-off bonus and I knew if I put that kind of money into advisory she would be a huge part of getting the assets transferred over, keeping the clients happy from a service standpoint. So that was kind of a fun sort of one-off bonus. But you know, that is one area that I feel like I could use continued coaching on. You know, I feel like I kind of fall short in terms of motivating her and you know, plain and simple is that she's a huge impact in the business. It'd kind of be out of luck if she was no longer here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we all know how difficult it is to train somebody and have them learn your business, et cetera, and then, for whatever reason, leave, and then you have to start that process over again. And then you have to start that process over again and certainly for the right person to be able to keep them motivated and give them monetary awards as well as recognition and things along that line go a long way to developing a true team. I think you've done that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but with her coming on board on a full-time basis, she has really. Her relationships with the clients have become much deeper, I think mainly because I just could put more important tasks on her plate. For instance, when a client calls my office, the phone rings to her first, so she has just more volume of interactions with clients than she had in the past, even if it's just a quick hello. Oh, let me transfer you to Mark. Those small touch points make the clients feel really good as well, and I think it becomes pretty rewarding for her as well, because she knows she has a very impactful relationship as well.
Speaker 1:Well, speaking of that, how do you stay in touch with the clients? Is there an active marketing campaign that you do? Do you call the top level clients every month, every quarter?
Speaker 2:every month, every quarter, et cetera. Yeah, so two years ago I keep on referencing to two years ago because that's when I brought Megan on full time I hired Client for Life to help me with scheduling. I identified a pretty big block of business that could be moved over to advisory and I just thought they'd provide a lot of value. And they did. Uh, they really did fill up my schedule but, um, I actually had to cancel their service because I was just too busy, um, so busy it's like it was just an unsustainable busy Um I.
Speaker 1:Client for life was calling all your clients and trying to set appointments and things Correct.
Speaker 2:If people are looking for a service to truly schedule appointments with existing clients to fill a schedule, they will do it. I've never really had a hard time staying busy, though do it. I've never really had a hard time staying busy, though. If you look at my average meetings in a week I don't know exactly what it is, but I feel like 12 meetings it could be a fair number to say. I have some meetings where I have some weeks where I have more than 12, and those feel like the weeks where I'm just trying to kind of stay afloat. If it's under 12, if it's eight or under, I'm kind of feeling like I should be working a little harder. But sometimes you need those weeks where it's a little lighter just to make it sustainable. I've never really had a hard time staying busy. So that's why I moved away from Client for Life, and what I'll do is I will look for opportunities to stir the pot every once in a while.
Speaker 2:I'll send an email this time of year to essentially all of my A clients, a and advisor. I have kind of different breakdowns of my clients and I always title it Tis the Season to Schedule an Appointment with Mark Mousine for your end review and people kind of chuckle about it. It's kind of a little silly but it's catchy and people click my Calendly link and fill up my January. If I send a meeting out like that, I could fill up a month, you know, like that, you know no problem. So I'm I'm a little guarded with sending emails out like that because it really does swamp my calendar for the next four to five weeks, um, but I'll do things like that, you know, probably three, two to three times a year, um, you know one thing I started doing, uh, you know, per the guidance of Linda Smith, which is another colleague. You know one thing I started doing, uh, you know, per the guidance of Linda Smith, which is another colleague.
Speaker 2:You know, um, if, if I was finishing up a meeting with a kind of an, a client, um, I would schedule the next meeting before we're done together, you know I'd say, hey, well, let's, let's compare a schedule, let's put something on the calendar a year from now. Just, we have a placeholder. If we have to move it, that's fine, but I'd love to have some assurance that we know we're going to see each other, at least a year from now. Of course, if you want to call me beforehand, please do so. So I've done that as well with my best clients and I feel like people really appreciate that, because there's some uncertainty between clients and a financial advisor when the next interaction will be. So you can kind of alleviate that concern for your best clients by just putting it on the calendar a year in advance.
Speaker 1:You mentioned Linda Smith Linda Smith Linda Smith is a very successful Cades Margolis financial advisor. That was at the tail end of her career. Could you describe? I think you dealt a little bit with transitions and succession planning with Linda. Could you describe that relationship?
Speaker 2:With Linda. Could you describe that relationship? Yeah, so Linda was kind of a mentor to me right away when I started with Cades Mergolis. I think weeks into me joining the firm she allowed me to join kind of a day of her meetings. We drove around Chester County Pennsylvania and visited with some of her clients.
Speaker 2:It was a neat opportunity to see her work and so the relationship developed and you know we talked multiple times about me possibly being a solution for her retirement and I always viewed it as a very attractive sort of partnership. Because she stopped really prospecting almost about a decade ago and she really put all of her time into just nurturing client relationships and developing existing clients. And it's amazing, even though she stopped prospecting she really remained one of the leaders of the organization and so I always viewed her book of business as a very solid quality book of business. So it was just very attractive for someone like me. So I kind of propositioned her a few times and in a way it kind of fell apart, I think mainly because she just wasn't ready to retire.
Speaker 2:But when the time was right we did strike a deal where it was in a way a fairly simple kind of 50-50 commission split for five and a half years Any social security number that's in that transition deal. She will get revenue for five and a half years and a lot of it's advisory existing advisory business. So I didn't have to go in there and fix the portfolios and move it from commissionable products to advisor business. A lot of it was already revenue producing business. It was just about letting clients know they're still in good hands and assuring them that I'm not that different than Linda, which you know hard to replace Linda, of course.
Speaker 1:So it was a win-win in that you had immediate revenue that was coming in from the advisory services, which enabled you to spend time with whichever clients and to further develop things, and then with Linda, as you added to the portfolio or got involved with life insurance, annuities, long-term care, other types of things, she's participating with those commissions or compensation. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Correct. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And you know, I feel like we kind of did it right. And what I mean by that is we didn't just send out a letter to clients saying you know, I'm you, hi, I'm Linda, and I've been your advisor for two decades and Mark's your new guy. Like we did not do it that way at all. It's very sensitive because we knew she had such a deep, long standing relationship. So there was the first communication Linda did send to her clients was a letter, a very nice, friendly letter, but it was requesting a meeting where Linda would personally invite or personally introduce me to the client. So the clients were just extremely appreciative. They understand that people retire at some point. Most of Linda's clients have already retired. Linda helped them do that. So they sure did not blame Linda for wanting that next phase of her life. But they were so appreciative that she took the time to personally invite me to each client there.
Speaker 2:And it was time consuming. It took a lot of time was time consuming. It took a lot of time. But Linda had a financial incentive as well to make sure those relationships stayed in the books and that the clients felt like they were cared for. And so what we did is we had that joint meeting where it was kind of a getting to know you sort of meeting. We didn't talk business at all and then before that meeting was done I scheduled an individual planning meeting with that client, without Linda. So it was kind of my first opportunity to shine as a financial advisor. So you know, essentially the client had a lot of touch points, a lot of quality touch points really early in the relationship. And especially for those clients I've tried to schedule the next review meeting before the business conversations conclude because I want especially those transition clients to feel like they're in good hands and they've been so used to Linda's style of scheduling I didn't want to change that experience for them.
Speaker 1:But it's worked very well change that experience for them, but it's worked very well. How do you see succession planning working for you in the future? Obviously, right now you're not at the stage for that and you're probably eventually going to bring on new associates etc. But what's your vision down the road in how you see transitionings working for you personally?
Speaker 2:well, I mean, if I I'm the way I view it like, if I was at retirement age, if I was maybe three years away from wanting to retire right now and you know, let's just round up a little bit to $200 million, that's more like a hundred. Well, with fixed annuities it probably is close to $200 million I almost view myself hiring like four financial advisors and really spending a lot of time to mentor them and develop them and to really just kind of teach them the business well before I'm ready to retire and have kind of identified clients that they eventually will be taking over. You know, not all four will work. I'm sure Certain people will lose interest or move on, but I imagine two, maybe three, would stick and I view that being my succession plan, almost creating a group that my clients know before I retire.
Speaker 2:But it allows me to kind of have confidence my clients are going to good hands. But also from a revenue standpoint, I can create a nice income stream for myself. Long term I can set certain expectations, servicing expectations with those advisors that's kind of how I see myself doing it with those advisors. That's kind of how I see myself doing it. You know it doesn't allow me just to sail off into the sunset and sunset and just kind of wipe my hands. But I'm sure I could generate a decent amount of revenue for myself in retirement, not really doing too much because these other advisors are in place already.
Speaker 1:Well, it also allows you to be able to work directly with whichever clients you really enjoy working with and maintaining those relationships, and certainly starting it years before you're actually thinking of retirement. You know you worry about that you might lose clients or whatever, and you know that kind of nips it in the bud to the best extent possible. Right there, mark, what would you say is the biggest mistake that you made in your career and what did you learn from it?
Speaker 2:It's a good question. Biggest mistake? Well, I made a trade mistake once that cost me a few thousand dollars, but in terms of mistakes in my business, that's a good question. You could probably answer that better than me, randy. What do you think?
Speaker 1:I would say probably not starting a defined benefit plan for yourself years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did. Actually, I pray you're recommending it. Yeah, about four years? Yeah, I don't know. I mean I'm there now but, like, I think I think embracing the costs of the business, you know there's there's certain costs of the business and it you know it's easier said than done just to hire an assistant or to to even subscribe to things like e-money. These things have some serious costs to them. But if you believe in yourself and you want to transform your practice, you have to make investments in your practice. So I think I would have made some investments sooner in my business. In the time I just didn't feel like I could afford it in the slightest bit. But I feel like sometimes you just got to break that feeling because I have colleagues that make a lot of money and they feel like they can't afford a county subscription which is $15 a month.
Speaker 1:That's because they're cheap.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the problem. So if you believe in yourself, you got to make certain investments. But in terms of mistakes, I don't know. I mean, I think you've probably seen me get a little. I think I'm guilty of kind of having some. Maybe I'd describe it as young passion. Other people may call it as immaturity, where I kind of lose my patience with people, some colleagues, some management. I feel like that can come off as kind of being selfish or not appreciative of people's previous work.
Speaker 1:You would never do that to management. Come on, Mark. You would never do that to management.
Speaker 2:Come on Mark. Well, I think that's probably, if I'm looking how to kind of look at some shortcomings. I think that's kind of a serious thing and it's important to be passionate. But I find myself, as I get a little older, being better at controlling myself. So I think it's kind of natural when guys are in their twenties they kind of go off the deep end once in a while, and that doesn't mean it's okay. But as you get a little older you do learn how to control yourself and kind of level things out, and I think I'm getting a little bit better at that.
Speaker 1:So you're much better. You're much better at it. You've come a long way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you've been copying some emails I've sent right, so I think that's probably something I can admit has been kind of a weakness of mine.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you about what current industry topic or trend are you concerned about and what are your thoughts in how to address them in the future? And I don't know if that's AI, I don't know if that's legislatively, uh, hindering the business, but what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:there, thoughts there. Yeah, I really like change. A big part of me wonders if I can be a financial advisor for my entire career because I find I have effective conversations. That is, repeat over and over and over, and when there is something like the CARES Act or a major downturn in the market or something that rattles our industry, a lot of times I think, oh, thank goodness, I have like a new conversation to have with clients. So I really don't feel worried about the future. I feel like I have some natural talents I've worked with, but I feel like there's so many people that need guidance and help with their finances. If you are, if you spend some time and develop some practices and some processes and have passion, I feel like you have a really good chance of helping people and making a great career for yourself, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I really don't. So I feel pretty good about the future of our industry and the changes that are inevitable, don't really bother me too much.
Speaker 1:Do you see inheritance? You know the baby boomers possibly inheriting money or the next generation inheriting money, inheriting money. Have you started to see that within your practice and have you kept those people as clients, or have you lost some clients and they went to some other advisor?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just had a client die about a month ago and she had nine beneficiaries on her account. Beneficiaries on her account and um, and I think all but one will leave me. I think all but one will leave and um. I tried, um, but they didn't stick around.
Speaker 1:Did you have any sort of a relationship with them beforehand?
Speaker 2:No, no. So, yeah, there's a lesson to be learned there. To my credit, now, I did try to form like a family, meeting a few different times with the beneficiaries, and the beneficiaries just had no interest in it, all but one one, which is the guy that's going to continue working with me. So I feel like I did try some things, but no, I ultimately did lose the business there. You know, in terms of like kind of going back to like e-money and trying to figure out, like, how to expand your existing clients, I feel like e-money has a lot of resources I haven't effectively used yet in terms of providing value to the beneficiaries, and you know it is such an important topic, but I don't feel like I have great systems in place for that. I'm good at accumulating assets, but when someone does die, it is harder to retain them. There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1:So that might be a good discussion topic for a future Wildcast for somebody that's really doing a nice job with that. I knew of somebody from NASA many years ago that every summer they would wind up doing an event, a picnic type of thing, with softball or baseball and you know different types of events and everything, and they would invite their clients and then encourage them to bring their kids or grandkids to the event and obviously there's no selling or anything that's going on and the purpose was just really to get to know the next generation, so that you're not a stranger at some point down the road, and this guy wound up doing it on an annual basis and that was one of the ways that he utilized in order to retain certain clients.
Speaker 1:But I'm sure there's many good ideas that are out there. Hey Mark, how about outside of work? What sort of hobbies do you have? How do you balance your family time, nicole, your wife and you have a daughter, dorothy, and son Benjamin. They're fairly young, including your wife. How do you balance that time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, the pandemic has actually taught me. It actually was great training for me to compartmentalize time. So I kind of referenced you know kind of seven o'clock in-home client meetings a little bit ago. And it was amazing, I feel like 10 years ago, not even 10 years ago five years ago for me to have three to four evening appointments was very, very common, was very, very common. And uh, but during COVID, even though we were all at home, uh, I, just I, I set up my calendly where my last appointment slot was four o'clock. Someone could schedule a meeting from four to five and that allowed me to have dinner, essentially with my family, and I never went back after that. Clients kind of understood.
Speaker 2:And when I was a younger advisor, I heard a few of my more senior colleagues say you know, I'll encourage a client to take a day off work if they want to meet with me. And I just thought, oh, my goodness, like that's incredible. How do you say that to someone? And I find myself doing that now as well, where I am glad to meet with them over Zoom or in my office. So I don't travel to clients' houses anymore because I have so many meetings, I just don't have the time for it and clients seem to kind of get it, they understand, and so I, in terms of balance, I really kind of rarely miss our family dinner, which I think is important.
Speaker 2:I actually have three kids now Randy, I don't think you've ever met my youngest one so I have Dorothy, benjamin and Henry, and as a father I do really want to be kind of present for them. So family dinner is just very important and with using Calendly and those time slots, it just kind of has worked for me. I will break that rule every once in a while, of course I will, especially if I have an elderly client that wants me to go to their house. I don't even mind leaving my office, it's just I can't make it a regular occurrence, just for efficiency there.
Speaker 1:And I imagine using Zoom makes it a heck a lot easier that you don't have to travel to all the appointments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's you know. That's another great thing that came out of COVID is my elderly clients love Zoom. I mean they almost embrace it more than anyone else. I mean they almost embrace it more than anyone else. So I've had a lot of. You know, I find especially some of my elderly clients that are women almost feel like they're formerly hosting you in their house and they want to have their house all proper and they almost feel like they should make tea for you and they kind of get a little worked up where Zoom they could just kind of log in, as long as their background, their computer's clean. They've told me they prefer it. So I always let my clients know they're welcome to come into my office. I love seeing them. But Zoom is the meeting of choice for most of my clients now, sure. So that's helped a lot with the balance.
Speaker 1:That really does now Sure, so that has helped a lot with the balance. That really does. Let me ask you one more question about kind of giving back to the community and volunteerism. Are you involved with various organizations or within the industry with any activities or your kids, uh, softball games or baseball games or or whatever?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah Well, um, I uh well, next week actually, I'm reading a book to uh Henry, uh no, to Benjamin's kindergarten class, a Christmas book which is going to be fun, uh. So you know, the nice thing about being a financial advisor is you make your own schedule and, uh, I try to block off certain times where I could do those sort of things. But yeah, you know, I'm active in my church and there's a few committees I'm on with my church that I help out with. But I do find that I turn down more invitations to do things than than not, just because life is busy. You know, three kids under seven years old At least they're all out of diapers now but it's not really the phase of life of jumping into a lot of extracurricular things. I consider myself an outdoorsman. That really means I go skiing once a year. But no, I'm enjoying life. It's just pretty darn busy.
Speaker 1:All right, mark, anything that we did not discuss that you would like to add?
Speaker 2:You know one thing that I you know. One thing I think needs to be kind of figured out in our industry is how to get younger advisors or just new blood into the industry. You know it's. I don't really know what the solution is, but I feel like the future is bright. A lot of times people get negative about the future, but I think we have a very bright future.
Speaker 2:But we do seem to have a lack of new advisors and I think that's mainly because high commission products are becoming less common and you almost need high commission products in the beginning to make it as an advisor. So partnerships with senior advisors and firms this is kind of the hurdle of the industry right now and I don't think it's an unfixable problem, but I think that's something that is kind of on my mind. Maybe I should care a little less about it, but I'm not in management with our firm, but I do wonder how do they make it attractive to bring on a younger advisor and how do they actually make it work? And a lot of times we talk about diversity in the business place. Well, how do you bring on, let's say, a working mother and actually give someone like that a chance to make it as a financial advisor. The answer is right now, it's pretty much not possible.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting that you mentioned Linda Smith, because when she started at Cades Mergolis.
Speaker 1:She and I started at the same time many moons ago and I remember I was in management and I wanted to encourage her after school to get into the buildings and do some presentations and do things, some presentations and do things. And she had two little kids back then and she let me know very loud and clear, randy, my schedule's, my schedule. I have to be home by 3.30 for the kids and I need to be there at night. So whatever I'm going to do and however I build the business, I need to do it during the time constraints that I have, and I've always thought about that. And Linda was very, very successful. She worked extremely hard during the hours that she was working and she did a wonderful job in balancing family and the business and everything. And obviously, obviously, as the kids get older, then she was able to work at at night or late in the afternoons and and that's terrific. So that's one way someone has done it many moons ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely Absolutely, but no, overall, you know. I just think you know we're. We're in a business that requires constant learning, but it's a simpler business I think people make it out to be. The markets will have positive years more times than not. There'll be plenty of negative years. As long as you warn your clients when you start the relationship that you're going to be with them in the negative times, and if you truly pick up the phone and service them, I think you'll be successful. Have a good personality, laugh with them, listen to them when they're upset. I think this business is more about just connecting with people than being an economist or a portfolio manager. I was a marketing major and I feel like that probably has helped me more than if I was a finance major, because it's really about how to motivate people, how to engage in conversation and thought, and you know I've been very fortunate to have landed in this place here. It just kind of makes sense.
Speaker 1:You've done a terrific job in the 15 years that you've been with Cades Mergolis and, as I said before, it's terrific to see where you started from and where you're at right now. On behalf of NATSA and ARA, I'd really like to thank you for taking the time to be able to discuss all these different areas about your practice and how you've became a success within your marketplace and everything. Thank you very much, mark, much appreciated.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Randy.
Speaker 1:This is Randy Aranowitz and Joey Santos-Jones signing off, and we look forward to interviewing our next member on the WoWcast 2.0. Thank you for listening and we hope that you've learned from this WoWcast series. Your members are able to download the WoWcast by going to wwwntsa-netorg. Slash WoWcast W-O-w-c-a-s-t and you'll be able to download all the past episodes as well as the new ones. Thank you and have a great day. Thank you.