Designing "Big Time" with Laura Dowling, former White House florist

Laura Dowling served as the White House Chief Floral Designer from 2009-2015 during the Obama administration. In this episode she shares her favorite White House projects and tips for holiday decor.  I loved hearing about her experience interviewing for the job at the White House. Inspiring and honest, I loved every minute of this conversation!  Laura's latest book, Designing Christmas, will be out this fall and I can't wait to order it.

Transcript

0:00

Today I am really, really excited to welcome Laura Dowling to the Flower Power Podcast. Laura served as Chief Floral Designer for the White House from 2009 to 2015. That's right. We're so happy to have you on and talk to you today, Laura. Thank you so much and good morning and great to meet you. And to meet you too, Ian. Thank you for being here today. Yes, we are excited because it's summer break. I have a special co-host today, who's gonna help with the start off the conversation. So, Ian, Ian Waters, welcome to your first episode of the Flower Power Podcast. Thanks, mama. I'm excited to be here. Hi Laura. My first question, this, who was the president when you did Flowers at the White House? So I worked there during President Obama's administration and so the Obama family, I did the flowers for them, and it was a really exciting time and I remember so many stories about that. And the flowers were really an important part of how they lived at the White House, how they entertained. I think one of my favorite stories, maybe you'll appreciate this, we were, a team of us were out in the Rose Garden and we were preparing and looking at the space to hold an outdoor event. And the Rose Garden, as you know, is right next to the Oval Office. So the president was in there working and he saw us out there and he said it looked like fun. He actually came out and joined us. And somehow had a football and he started throwing the football. And I just remember that as, as quite a, a fun moment that here's the president of the United States hanging out with us and tossing a football in the rose garden and talking all things set up for the event, with you guys. That's so cool. You just answered my next question. Did you ever meet him? So, you know, because I was part of a very small team of staff who worked, in the residence at the White House, we had top secret clearances and then, and even smaller group of us had permission to go to the private residence, which is above the main floors at the White House. And, so in that capacity, we would interact with the first family and, um. You know, change out the flowers and, and then I would work with the first lady very closely on when we would do official events at the White House. So she always had a say in what kind of designs and colors and so that was really a special part of my job. Oh. So even in their residence there were certain places where they always had flowers. Yes, we would put flowers there and maintain them, change them out during the week. Um, but when you think about my job as being the White House florist, I did the flowers for the whole White House, you know, that is on the tour route. Um, also the private residents Camp David, when they would go there, Blair House when foreign guests were there. And then all of the official parties and events. That happened every day and sometimes there were multiple events every day. So it, it was a big job, a busy job, and I probably worked about a hundred hours a week during my time there. How many other people were on your team? My title was Chief Floral Designer, and I had a small team of three people. Um, one person was part-time and then when we had the bigger events, I would bring in volunteers or we might have contractors. Come and help us. So especially during the holiday season, the whole group would expand and we would pack a lot of people in the White House. Designers would come from all over the country and, and I really tried to open up the flower shop to let people have that experience of working on a White House event, um, was probably one of the favorite parts of my job. So during that, you connected to a lot of other designers and you invited them to help with an event. If you liked their style and the first lady liked their style, you would invite them to collaborate. So it was a little more organic. The way it would work, sometimes a Garden Club member would contact me and ask if we needed help or, a group of Floris who worked together said if there are any opportunities, and of course there was always work to do and. Because I love integrating crafts so much with floral design, I always felt like the more the merrier. So it, it was really fun to welcome people in. All right, so this is good to know. So I can reach out to that person and say, I'd love to volunteer.'cause I would, and maybe get us there. There's a whole program about volunteering at the White House during the holidays. It's competitive, but I think you would have a great chance and what you do is just create a letter of application and it's probably about the time when they're starting to look over applicants for this year. It's definitely something I recommend. It feels like a once in a lifetime experience to be there and decorate and then at the end there's a, a special party for volunteers with the first lady. So definitely something to put on your bucket list. That would be amazing. So any of the people listening out here too, it's a great opportunity. I'm sure that there will be some people looking into that. Do you have any more questions, Ian? I think you have one more question. My final question for you is, did any member of the first family have a favorite flower? So when you think about the Obama family and the time they were there, the two daughters were young girls then and kind of grew up in the White House. So, my team would often create special little coozies for them. For graduation ceremonies or I think one time there was even like a little bouquet workshop for them. I think the Obamas themselves, um, I know Mrs. Obama loved garden flowers. You know, the dahlias, the roses. Hydrangea, which is perfect though. Those are kind of my favorite flowers in the garden style too. That whole aesthetic. And the president, because he grew up in Hawaii, I I think always enjoyed flowers that had a tropical touch. And, one of the flowers we kept in that residence all the time were gardenias. So very fragrant, very beautiful flower. So yes, it's fun to have a favorite flower, and then to be able to create that for the first family. And I'm sure you introduced lots of new favorites. I'm sure they were always asking you, what was that? I really liked this purple one. And so, so many different flowers that we used and the way I tried to design was to never do the same bouquet twice. So always making seasonal arrangements, but hopefully things that were interesting and unique and um, would be a conversation starter. Ian, do you need to get some stuff done? Clean your room before the school year starts. Bye. Thanks for being a part of this, Ian. Bye bye. Okay, awesome. I was going to talk about seasons Do you have a favorite design season? Is it their favorite time of year? I feel like when you're a florist, you learn to appreciate every season. And so for me, I, have favorites, at each seasons. Right now it's the high summer flowers. The zinnias are incredible, the roses, I love all the summer flowers that are in bloom when you get into fall. It's more the Dahlia season that I think take center stage and the different colors of foliage. I'm planning a workshop now where I'm really looking at that. Intersection of when summer ends and fall begins. And I think that's some of the moody colors too. So those are favorites. In winter I probably go towards the really, beautiful early bold flowers, paper, white narcissus, and, the flowering branches like Quint. I love to use those in winter. And then spring, because I grew up in the north. West, I just really have a fondness for things like lilac and, daffodils, the tulips, all of those spring flowers I think are beautiful arrangements. It sounds like you like to use the things that are growing in the season, as in your design, using locally grown things when you can. So I, I do like that as a guiding principle and then. To back that up. I think you need to be practical because where we live in Virginia, you know, the, the flowers are, I mean, it can get really cold. And especially when you're doing big projects or working at the White House, we had to bring flowers in from other places. But I, I think it always is just wonderful to give that, um, sense of the season. A sense of place. By, by using local flowers. And I think the growers are responding too. You know, I'm finding that flowers that weren't that widely available when I was designing at the White House are things like butterfly, ulus. They found a way to grow them and ship them. So now, now it's more widely available. I love working with all of those delicate flowers too. I do love one of my favorite growers, who has been my main source of flowers since I started my business. She'll ask me, what else do you like? What else can I grow? So she asks the designers what things we want, which is really great. I love that partnership, with the grower and having that dialogue I think is just fabulous. Her farm is called Hidden Pond Farm. If you ever are interested, it's out in your lake. An but do you have a local farm that's your go-to spot, that's since you're in Alexandria, that you source from. Yeah, I travel so much now, so when I'm doing projects, it's usually in locations around the country and I always try to source things, find a good wholesaler. There are some wonderful wholesalers that will ship around the country and then ground those flowers with a sense of place. So, working with a, either a local floral partner. Or farm, I think really helps to round out the things that I'll need when I do my projects around the country. Yeah. Sometimes I even just get things from a nursery because you know when they're alive and you can see their beauty in a different way. So sometimes I'll find just the most amazing plants and I just use those and they're still alive and I can just cut and use what I need and keep it, keep it alive. I mean that, that's smart too. I think people who have gardens and. Can grow flowers that they use in arrangements. I have in old town, Alexandria, a walled garden, and so there are some things I can use. There's some hydrangea, lots of ivy, and I think that really helps to give that authentic garden style touch when you can actually go out and cut from your garden. I completely agree. So what was the coolest thing you've ever designed at the White House? If you can think of one event or. Thing. So, you know, there, there's so much that, that I think about and the kinds of projects we did, the big scale of the projects, kind of the intensity, the number of volunteer projects, and I think a lot of them were centered around the holiday. Season at the White House and so I think one of the favorites was always creating the replicas of the Obama Family Dogs Bow and Sonny, which we did with chicken wire frames and then do coverings in black and white. Materials. So everything you can imagine, because, you know, I was there for six years and we did them every year. Sometimes multiple versions of bow and Sunny, but, um, pipe cleaners, black and white pipe cleaners, ribbons, um, marshmallows and licorice. Even trash bags one year. So the crafting of that, the idea of bringing people in to help do pieces of that and then the application it, that was a great project. And then also. Along those lines, a more organic version using the White House architecture as inspiration. We created these giant column covers that were made out of something like 60,000 individual red berries, folded lemon leaves, and then pieces of pine cone scales that we cut and gilded. So incredibly detailed work and all of this was measured out in an illusion cube motif, so kind of a 3D design. So we made four of those and they were something like 16 feet tall, eight feet wide, and about eight inches deep that they took six months to make. So I, I love those handmade projects that started with simple things. Sometimes the. The things were free or found. One year we took, fallen oak leaves and fashioned them into rosettes and put those on a door surround. And, I think that the warmth that comes through and, and of course when the volunteers would come through on the tour and see their work, they knew exactly which rosette or which cube that they had designed. So I really love that participation part of it too. So that six months of building those, that was some volunteers helping do that. Yeah, definitely. Wow. I can see now why you needed volunteers. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love the free and found idea. I love that. I love using the inside of a flower, once the petals are gone or, the things that maybe you wouldn't think are beautiful necessarily to put an arrangement, putting those in. The stems, cut, stems or leave. Yeah. There, there's so much you can do with a simple leaf, and I think one of the hallmarks of my design is the integrated container. So another thing we did at the White House was make these covered buckets using. A lot of times lemon leaves, magnolia, eucalyptus, anything that can dry, over time and be used again and again. But, cutting them into shapes, folding them, creating a fish scale motif. It was amazing how elegant you could elevate and make a bucket look just using leaves and hot glue. Designing Christmas it's already out Yeah. So, it's my, my latest book and, this was a project that I started years ago and, after having worked on the White House Christmas for all those years, seeing the joy that it brought doing Christmas at such a grand scale. And always enjoying decorating for the holidays. But when I worked at the White House, I really didn't have time to decorate it home. And so after I left, I realized that I really enjoy decorating at home and creating designs, experimenting, creating kind of a backdrop for celebrations throughout the season. So when I wrote the book, it was really with the idea of creating something that people could use for their home decorating, but taking tips from my White House years, um, you know, how to light a tree. How to layer in ornaments to get the maximum effect, all of that. So yeah, the book is officially out this fall and I'll be going on a book tour and speaking around the country this fall, and then going back to the Cheekwood Botanical Gardens in Nashville in November to help them decorate again. So there's a beautiful mansion that, um, you know, has. The proportions and rooms similar to the White House. It feels like a White House level project, and I'll have a team of people working with me from all over the country to create some beautiful designs. But the book includes tips and tricks. It's got an introduction about how to map out the creative process and then goes into detail about my 10 favorite. Elements to you? So the tree, topiaries, a wreath. I love making wreaths, garlands, you know, all the things that kind of roll up into create a beautiful design. And then, maybe my favorite part are 10 different themes. So with color palettes. How to kind of imagine them. What I really hope is that people will take the book and use it as a springboard to create their own special holiday decor. I mean, I love that idea because it's so common to just see the tree. But it's so nice if you could have Garland or something else. And I don't have a fireplace and a chimney, I wish I had that, that seems like a good place for Garland. But I did, and I'm sure you've seen this little hack with a shower rod. I did do a rod at the doorway to the kitchen. Um, just, you know, the shower rod, and then covered that in greenery and orange, dried orange slices, and it just looked. More like a little White House, you know, it just looked so nice. So I can't wait to read your book and get so many more ideas. Oh, well, thank you, Lisa. Do you have a number one Christmas tree tip for making the tree, like integrating florals into the tree, or is that not normally something you add You know, I, I really have, thought a lot about trees over the years and, at the White House, they always used giant fresh trees. You know, the blue room tree was 19 feet tall and fresh. And so you can imagine. To keep that fresh for however long, like six weeks or if at least five weeks during the season. You know, I think water, if you have a fresh tree, water it all the time. A lot of people are using faux trees now and you know, there was always a debate and people were one or the other. And, you know, I'm from the northwest. So I really tend to favor a fresh tree, but I also understand the practicality of using a faux tree. And, you know, it is just practical. You can put it up earlier, leave it up longer. I think the, the key if, if you are using a faux tree, you have to make it look natural. The trees are getting better now, higher. Quality, look for trees that are wired to the edges of the tips, and then they won't sag. You know, they won't get that sad sagging look as, as you put ornaments on. But also I think it's important to build in layers of branches and build the tree out a little bit, to give it a shape that looks more organic and not that perfectly shaped cone that, just tells you, oh, that's a. A fake tree. So that's a starting point. I think adding lots of lights to the tree, are also really critical and usually doubling what they tell you, or is typical. So a typical seven foot tree say might have 1500 lights. 3000 or 3,500 will really, make it glow from the inside out and, and enliven your tree. And when you add ornaments, I am a big fan of more is more, you know, and I like all different sizes. I like working with. A strong color palette. So you'll see in the book that I've got the orange tree, a citrus tree, the emerald green tree, a pink and gold tree. I think you can use accent colors, but I love kind of. Working with, with color that way, with the ornaments. And then of course, ribbons to me are, where the florist touch can come into play. And so one of the things I've done over the last few years is to create three dimensional swags that. I think give a lot more movement and liveliness to the tree. One of my pet peeves is I'm not really a fan of taking a ribbon and wrapping it around the tree like a mummy. I really like the, the look of, um, you know, just to make it festive and light. I think you need things. Flying out of the tree similar to a bouquet design, right? So building in levels and layers to achieve that emotion you want, which is for people to come in and say, wow, and feel happy, and get a sense of that dimension. I love that tip because I do have a faux tree. Even though I grew up with fresh trees, just as a single mom, to bring it in by myself, I might change my mind this year. You might have inspired me and I might have a couple trees up this year, but I love the idea of adding branches because you have those big gaps. Especially when you've had the three, a couple years in a row, it just automatically, you have gaps in between. So I like that idea a lot. Just adding real branches and just zip tying'em, right? Or, you know, you could, I mean, that, that works well. And then even at the craft store, Lisa, you can get crystal branches. You, can get gilded leaf branches. So I would say a couple or three different kinds of branches can really start layering it and creating, a more, aesthetically prominent. Look, I think that's where you wanna go with this, that you wanna make it as natural looking and as festive with movement as you can. I mean, I guess the only other question do you have a mistake your biggest floral design mistake? Does anything come to mind to. You know, warn the rest of us who are either new floral designers just starting off. You know what's so interesting about floristry is that, you know, it really is a craft and I do think there are people who might have a little more artistic. Talent or predisposition. They have a natural gift. But, I do think especially when you're working on events or weddings or high stakes things there, there's so much, almost engineering and mechanics that you have to understand. In order to make your design successful. So yes, in the early years there, there's always the rookie errors and I think it can be with timeline. So taking on a project, a big project, say, 50 center pieces and then realizing. Oh, I'm gonna have to pull an all-nighter to finish it. You only have to do that once, and then you kind of learn that you need to really think through the timeline. You're working with a fresh product and there's that window when you've gotta have it look peak. But, hopefully not do an all-nighter to, to get it done. So there's that kind of mistake. And then going back to mechanics, the things that can happen with outdoor events. I mean, they happened at the White House Vase is tipping over on the South lawn, which is a wind tunnel, and the wind would pick up and knock things over like dominoes. So I. Again, you learn to weight them down to create a design that will withstand the elements. Um, so I think that's part of the learning process. So I, I don't really look at it as a mistake so much as just part of that growth of becoming A designer. Who is multifaceted can master the design, the aesthetic part, and that's never ending. I mean, that is something I think we all feel inspired by, to learn more, to continue that, that path of inspiration. But then the other side too, to really start mastering. How things are put together, how they can hold up and inclement weather. And then how to adapt. I mean, sometimes you can work on a project, install, a beautiful design and maybe you find out that the guest has allergies or that they need a line of sight. And, and so I think having a sense of humor, being flexible. Then just building your arsenal, your, repertoire of skills. So I'm always a big fan of recommending workshops and reading. I think now the online resources. Are really amazing. You can go to YouTube tutorials, a lot of designers, hold workshops and, I mean that's really how I got started too, that I was inspired by floristry and French Flower Design in particular. Then just, you know, got a passion for studying and learning as much as I could. The techniques, the process, the way of thinking. And so I, I think, I would recommend that to find the inspiration, find a designer you like to follow. And then just keep practicing. I'm not sure if you do this with your work, but I'd love to take photos to really study how the eye sees them so you can design something and maybe it comes out different than in your mind's eye that I think we all start with a vision of what we wanna create. And then when you look at it in the photograph, you can see. Where you might change things and it's sort of like an artist with a paintbrush that the placements you make of, with the flowers, that's a craft, it's an art and it can develop over time. But studying photos has been a very helpful thing for me and something I recommend for people starting out it's hard to capture flowers even with the good iPhones we have and I'm sure when you first started, it was hard what kind of cameras did you use when you were first starting? I mean, I'm trying to think. I mean, it would've been around 2000, so whatever was was available and, and it was frustrating because I felt like what I saw, what I was trying to create was so much different from what came across and the, the photos would look flat. The iPhones, there've been great stride. So when taking pictures of your flowers, I think portrait mode is the best. Approach and will give you the kind of depth, and experimenting with lighting. With the backdrop. But it's an art unto its form to, either take the photos yourself or find a photographer who gets your eye and understands what you're trying to convey with the design. So, it's a real partnership because working with flowers, they're so ephemeral and they're of the moment, that's why we love them so much. But to capture them can be an elusive task sometimes. I try to take a lot of videos. I don't know if you do that for your social media, if you do a lot of video. Okay. Not, not as much, but you know, that's something to think about. Um, and, you know, I'm always just, really intrigued by how that process works, that spark of inspiration when you have an idea for a design and then execute it and then try to capture what you see. I, I feel like that that can be its own challenge. Yeah, that's true. Well, I hope that when you go, to the Nashville Mansion that you were telling us about, once it's all decorated and I Do you get volunteers for that too? If anybody listening is out in that area? So I think this year, yes, I mean, I'll be working with volunteers and I, I think we're looking at trying to do some kind of, I'm calling it flower camp, but almost a, a craft. Session in, in Nashville before the, the actual installation. So if anyone's listening, feel free to contact me and, and, uh, if you live in the area. So yes, I have big ideas for the kinds of projects that we wanna do. Handmade reads. Um, you know, with the Snowflake theme, so it's a very ethereal look this year based on the sweet dreams of Christmas is the theme. And to carry that out, I think we'll take a lot of work. So, well, can you do an Instagram live inside the building inside? You mean, can I personally do it or maybe do it so we can see it? I think the media team at Cheekwood will probably do that, but, um, that's a great idea. I'll mention that to them. Lives are fun, and then, you know, it'll, it'll stay on your feed, but some people can come in live and see it. Yeah. No, that would be fun. It's a great idea. For anybody local.'cause you know, I'm in Vienna and you, live in Old Town. Do you do wreath classes or floral workshops or is your schedule just too busy for that? So with, uh, the travel and kind of extended book tour and, and things like that, I'm doing projects around the country. So my next workshop will be in Highlands, North Carolina. So I don't know if you have any listeners in that area, but that'll be on September 20th. And it'll be a lot of fun because it is that Equinox theme of summer into fall and it's a bouquet making workshop. And then in October I go to Covington, Louisiana and it's a master gardener lecture in demonstration focused really on holiday decor. So that'll be fun too. Kick off the season there. I think they're bringing in a life-size blue spruce to decorate. And so what I should do and what I'll try to do this summer is post a schedule of events that people can join in on and and it will be a lot of fun. I would love that. And I'll post, um, you know, on, in the bio with the, with this podcast everything you have coming up. And I have a monthly newsletter, so I'll post that because I have lots of people who have love are flower lovers, so they would probably follow you around. I'll try to, to get to something. Oh, thank you Lisa. But Laura, I know you're so busy. This was so amazing. Having a chance to talk to you. I mean, I loved hearing how you started. So what age were you or what, what year did when you first designed your very first floral. Centerpiece. Well, so, you know, I've always loved flowers. I, um, grew up in having a big garden. Grew up on a farm in the northwest. My grandparents had an incredible rose garden, like two acres or something. I mean, it was beautiful. And so I remember always having flowers and doing arrangements, but I studied political science and public administration and college, had a Washington DC career. For many years. So it wasn't until I went to Paris that I became inspired by French floral design, and it just hit me that this is what I should be doing. And that's when I started going back and studying at a French flower school and learning bouquet. So yeah, that was around 2000 and then interviewing for the White House job still seems surreal to me that, that could even happen. I had only been doing flowers What for clients maybe for seven years, you know, so not that long. And working, I was still working full time, but I was doing flowers on the side. And, my husband said that he thought I should apply for the White House job. So I literally was a part-time florist working outta my kitchen and interviewed Oh my, it was a competition, with three people rounds of cuts. Mm-hmm. And, and I ended up, getting the job much to my total surprise. So that was, that was really something. And, and that's something I like to share with people that, um, you know, you, if you have a passion, if you have a dream and you work hard. You know, don't, uh, put limits on yourself. You never know where, where you can take something. So I was lucky that my husband kind of pushed me into applying for the job. I'm not sure I would've done that on my own, just thinking, you know, we live in the Washington DC area. You know, those jobs are always with people. Or you think they are the PE with people, you know? Um, but I think having a good idea, being able to execute. Being able to work under pressure, all of those things were important and for me, having the background in policy and strategy communications, I think was really a good foundation for my White House work and, and floristry in general. So that's the other thing I would say to people is to, use what you've done, you know, all of your skills and gifts. Your, your background, to, uh, leverage it for, for the next level. That is really, really great advice. And that is so neat that you were only seven years in as a designer and a part-time designer when you got that job. Can you tell a little bit about the interview process? Did you have to go and. Design there? Or did you send photos or videos? For all those cuts? Just, just for, for my future planning. Yeah. So it was 2009 and I remember that there was an article in the newspaper, my husband read it, that the florist have retired, that there was speculation. What would the new florist, what kind of style? And by then, you know, I had been taking, um, classes in Paris for many years and, and so when he finally convinced me to apply, there was no application process. I just sent a resume and a cover letter. And never expected to hear back. And it probably took a couple months, but I heard back that I was a semi-finalist. I think there were 17 people at that point. And then it was whittled down to about 10. I think when it got to seven or eight people, they started doing in-person interviews. So my first interview was going into the White House and meeting with a panel and they didn't seem to really be talking about flowers. It was more about budget and management, you know, the logistics of the job. And I started to get a sense of how big the job was. Um, all of the events, the state dinners, and, you know, I could just, I was just thinking about working on my kitchen table, you know, where, where I'm sitting now, in fact. And then. After that, there was another round of cuts. It was about an eight month process, so it went from four to three. So the three finalists, all of us were invited to go to the White House for a time competition. It was four hours. We were all given the same assignment and we could pick our own flowers. We had to do a blue room arrangement, a whole state dinner table, and then an Oval office display, and four hours. I mean, it sounds like a long time, but by the time you get. Through security and into the room. We were all sequestered in different rooms. I feel like the clock was ticking and I felt that time constraint but I had my game plan. I had made a little brochure articulating the garden style that I wanted to bring to the White House. And, um, so, you know, I had done the preparation. I had great flowers and the colors and everything, and. What I remember is that when the four hours was, the time was getting close, the housekeepers came in, they got it all ready. The first lady interviewed, all of us. So she went from candidate to candidate and came in with her team. Um, that was such a surreal moment and you know, it started to feel. Quite real then that, wow, this is really happening. And, and so we had a nice conversation about how flowers could help her articulate a style, a mood, a theme. By then Mrs. Obama had already created the kitchen garden, so following up with the garden style, she talked about making guests feel warm and welcome and I feel like flowers can help carry that out too. So, so I had the interview, they all left and it was shortly after that that I heard that, you know, I had won the competition and they were offering me the job and they wanted me to start immediately to work on a state dinner, the India State Dinner, which was only about three weeks away. So. Did the former floral designer help you at all or they were out of the picture? Did they give you a little bit of help when you needed it? No, and you know, the, the White House working there, you're really in a bubble. And she had retired. I think she had written her own book and I don't know. In hindsight, I feel like I had no understanding of the scope and magnitude of what I was entering, and so that was probably a good thing. You know, I was just. It could have been intimidating or, or daunting. And instead what I relied on was knowing that I had a career where I managed projects and had a skillset. I felt confident in my floral skills and I knew that I could work, as long and hard as it would take. To master what I needed to know. So I also have a background as a marathon runner, and so I know what it's like to work long hours and push through the wall to get things done. So I think having all that experience help give me some comfort. And then the other realization that. I was joining a team and no one on the White House. You know, everyone want, wanted the designs to be a success Christmas to be a success. So, um, so I knew I would have lots of help. And, and I, and I guess it was probably nice to have a new administration, so everything was new. They weren't comparing you to a former person it was all a fresh start. Um, well what I'll say about that is that, um, as you know, people have strong opinions about flowers, maybe any type of design. So I feel like there were lots of opinions. And again I think the important point about that is that. Going through an eight month, um, kind of rounds of competition and discussion and being able to show the style and to talk about it at each step of the way with the first lady in the end, making a personal choice gave me confidence. So really the opinion that mattered the most was, was her opinion and right. Everything else, um, could be a distraction. Um, but it is interesting how, how much emotion, how much, you know, what flowers can convey and how people interpret it. And, and I think that's so fascinating about the field that we're in. And I'm just, I'm so sure for anybody who was working there before you and then with you to see the difference. In your style versus the last one? Um, you know, I'm sure they loved it. It was probably very different and they were a little bit thrown off maybe, and I'm sure that was a little bit challenging, but I'm sure they grew to completely appreciate your beautiful. Style. Oh, well thank you. And, and I think it was fun to be able to share the techniques, the French style, the garden style, and show people we would have workshops at the White House and bring in guest designers to, and. And so again, that, that's sort of a favorite part is to be able to work on design and keep developing a vision and skills to support it and. Um, so fun to do at the White House. Fun to do outside of the White House, and, and I feel lucky now that I am able to travel and go around the country and, and meet people who have a passion for flowers and design too. And then through your podcasting and books, anybody can learn from you. So I just love it. Do you have any goals for 2005 2006? Anything that you haven't done that you would like to do? Is there something that. I've done everything, but well, you know, I, I'm really enjoying these big installation projects and again, just the collaboration, the teamwork, and some of the new tools that are available now for designing, um, experimenting a little bit with AI to help with sketches and renderings. And what I love about that is that, you can really have a dialogue to start creating things that maybe weren't part of the original idea but might be incorporated. So that's a lot of fun. I'm always thinking about the next book project. The next project or travel project. So, so we'll see. But right now I have a full calendar coming up, all the way well into next year. So, um, this summer will be busy getting ready for Cheekwood. Another installation I'm doing. For the 250th anniversary of the us you know, that's next year. So there'll probably be a lot of events surrounding, but I'm working on a fun installation for that. Well, I'm so excited to keep following you. Everyone make sure to follow Laura Dowling and we'll have her Instagram up on, up on here and everything. So, Laura, thank you so much. I have to shout out Sherry, a friend who's was the president of the Vienna Garden Club, who first told me your name and all about you. So thanks to Sherry and she's been like, I hope she goes on your show. And I'm like, I know. I hope. Oh, that's nice. So thank you Sherry and Laura, thank you so much for talking to me today. I really, really had a great conversation. You said it was so nice meeting Ian too. He was great and I loved his questions, so, thank you for all your preparation and what a fun conversation with you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Best of luck. You too, take care. Bye-Bye.