The Madrid Flower School with Aileen Ju

Warning - this episode may make you want to take two weeks off of work to pursue a creative calling! This is exactly what Aileen Ju, a UX and graphic designer, did when she took a vacation from work to learn from the best as a student at the Madrid Flower School. Aileen talks all about the 10 day program, what she learned her favorite flowers and her plans for the future. Inspiring and sweet Aileen encourages us all to take our own creative sabbatical and see where that leads us. 

Follow Aileen on Instagram at @Aileenmakesstuff and reach out to her by direct message for the discount code for the school.

For more info about Madrid Flower School or to sign up for their next session visit https://madridflowerschool.com/en/

Transcript

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Today we have a special story and guest, Eileen Ju, and She has the most amazing story. It's a flower story for sure, so welcome, Eileen, to the Flower Power Podcast. Hi, Lisa. Thank you so much. This is my first podcast, so I'm very excited to be here and to talk. I'm just so honored that y- anyone would even wanna hear about my story. Oh my gosh. I mean, you also did an amazing job telling the story it was just so well done your whole thing. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what it is that made me contact you? Yes. So I did a lovely flower program in Madrid by Madrid Flower School. I did this whole two-week series documenting my experience in the program, not really thinking of much. I had just started posting on social media, so really was only expecting my friends to see it, and it's so cool that it's reached people like you, and then you wanna talk to me now. But basically, I start the series by saying that I took two weeks off of work to do this flower program in Madrid, which I think- Looking back on it is cool because not a lot of people think to spend their vacation time like that, and I had just been really searching for a creative outlet. I'm based in New York City. By trade I'm a freelance user experience and graphic designer. A lot of that is on the computer, like a lot of people these days can probably relate to. And in the months actually leading up to Madrid Flower School, we were getting tons of pressure from our leadership teams and kind of the world in general to adopt AI and use it for everything. And- Hmm yeah, don't get me wrong, AI has its place and all, but it was starting to feel a little bit misaligned with me. So I was really reaching a point of burnout, and I was trying to find some way to express myself creatively- Mm-hmm and also work with my hands. So I just started googling. I can't remember if I found Madrid Flower School through their website or their Instagram, but they're a great school, great program. They have, amazing photography that really highlights the beautiful arrangements that they have, so that's initially what drew me in. Do you have a connection to Spain or Spanish? 'Cause I was just thinking maybe that's why you chose that country, since I'm sure many other capitals have a school like this. I don't, actually. I had been to Spain one time, but I don't particularly have a connection to it. And, to your point, there are tons of flower schools out there. Even in New York City there's a couple by, I think the Botanical Gardens, and a couple other ones in the city. But for some reason it was really the style of arranging that was presented on their website and their socials that really drew me in. So I think that's a really personal decision for a lot of people- Mm-hmm because as you know, so many different styles of arrangements. So it's like whatever kind of speaks to you and energizes you to wanna learn that craft. Yeah. Interesting. So where did you stay? So this is two weeks. You know, flower school's expensive, cause of course, as soon as I saw that I'm like, "Matron's Flower School- how can I go?" You know? "Are there scholarships available?" Yeah. So did you then have to stay in a hotel that whole time, or- Yeah, I'm not- how? gonna sugarcoat it. It was an expensive experience. Yeah. I get this question a lot about the specific course that I took. Mm-hmm. So they have three different tracks. One is their English program, which consists of four weeks. I did that, but I only did the first two weeks of the program, so that was, week one was intro to floral design, and then week two was creativity and avant-garde. And then the third and the fourth weeks are weddings and running a business. So they have that track, and then the second track is the two-week intensive. A lot of people thought that I did the two-week intensive but I didn't. But it's would be the four weeks condensed into two. Yeah. And it is pricey. It's about 2,000 a week, 2,000 USD a week. And for the intensive more in the range of 7,000. So there's absolutely no sugarcoating. It was really an investment, and was also really, for those reasons, really challenging for me to initially make the decision to go. Mm. I spent a long time contemplating and having discussions with my husband if it would make sense to go, because when you're spending that much money you want the feeling that it's will be worth it and pay off. But for me personally, I am not in the game to be a full-time florist. This was really just a hobby and creative outlet for me for right now. So it's like, oh my gosh, can you really spend $5,000 on this program that you don't know if you're gonna make money, and in fact, just spend money doing? But looking back on it, it was such a good decision for me, really re-energized me, and launched me into this kind of creative, almost like creative sabbatical that I'm on now of just relearning how to get in touch with my creativity. And you make a lot of other things. I'd love to hear more about the other types of art and creative things that you've learned or done. Yeah, my handle is @AileenMakesStuff, which is intentionally very broad because Hopefully many people can relate to this, but I f- a lot of times feel like a jack of all trades, master of none, but really I just think I'm interested in a lot of different things, and it's hard for me to go like I'm flowers only, or I'm this craft only. But really flowers has been awesome. My true heart lies with crafting. I love junk journaling. I use polymer clay to make magnets for friends. I like making stickers with my Cricut. I like carving my own stamps, small sewing projects, embroidery. And really I would love, after this whole Madrid Flower School experience, I would love to find more intensives and even weekend intensives or something to go learn- Yeah a new craft, whether it's glass blowing or miniatures or something. In my experience, I feel like you learn so much by watching somebody do what their craft is. And even better if they're narrating along the way and giving you their tips and tricks. It's not like a Zoom class where you're just watching someone do mosaics, 'cause I've taken one like that before where I'm just watching all these videos. But to actually be there and doing it with them. Yeah. Yeah. And somebody in the DC area, and I'll send you later her tag just as an interesting person to follow who does this, plans these weekend retreats. Just finds an Airbnb. It's a craft retreat, and they either do block printing or different things that she finds experts or she teaches. Um- Mm-hmm so I feel like that would be such a cool thing for you to organize. And in New York, there's so many things like that, too, where people host creative workshops and all. So that's in my immediate plans, to start hosting more workshops. I'm actually- Mm from my flower school program, I'm doing a little workshop for some close friends of mine just to- Oh, good dip my toes and show my appreciation to them for kinda supporting me through this journey. So this will hopefully be the start of many different workshops to come. That is cool. So you're gonna do your first floral design workshop? Yes. I actually- Very fun have all the flowers right now in my bathtub. Oh my gosh, this is so exciting. Are they bringing their own containers, or did you pick the things ahead of time, like the vase? This is actually such a challenging part that I've realized about trying to do this workshop. There's so much involved in just- Mm-hmm the flowers and picking the recipe, but also the vessels. Um- Yes vessels are expensive, so I actually went down this DIY rabbit hole where I made 10 of my own vessels with a pedestal, because we're going to be making a garden arrangement and I think it just looks really nice when the vase has a pedestal. Um- Oh that involved me drilling together bowls, filling things with cement, and doing- Oh my gosh this whole DIY route. Well I hope you videotape this whole thing so we can follow that on your series. I mean- Are you gonna take lots of videos? I took some. It was- Okay kind of a lot. I was up until midnight last night just filling bowl, mixing cement and filling a mold. I think it probably only saved me $200 if I'm being honest, so. Okay, can I come? I can just hop on a bus from Vienna and be there in four hours. Would love to have you here. That sounds so much fun. I love that you're just jumping and you're like, "Let, I'm gonna teach them something wildly cool." 'Cause I'm a teacher, when you teach someone else, you improve yourself. Right. Well, one, your confidence improves 'cause you're like, "Wow, I was able to teach them how to do something-" Mm-hmm and they did it well, so you feel good. But you just get better every time you push yourself to teach about it. Yeah, and I'm hoping that for a lot of my friends, this will probably be their one and only time getting to play with flowers like that. Mm. So I'm hoping we'll open some minds a little bit as looking at flowers kind of like an art form rather than just something you pick up for your mom on Mother's Day. Yeah. That's so cool that you're doing that workshop. So we talked about what other things you made and created. What was your favorite flower that you saw in Madrid at flower school? I have a couple that come to mind. So on our ikebana day, we played with these daisies that had twisted ends, and I learned after the fact that they're called gerbera, gerber? I don't... Oh, yeah, yeah. It's true. They're called pasta carbonara. Oh. What? So which, it's just such a cute name, pasta carbonara, so that one- really stuck with me. And then outside of that there were a couple more that I had come to mind. I really like alliums. Mm-hmm. We used those a couple times. We used those on our large scale installation day, where we wrapped these wooden blocks in moss, and we had alliums popping out of them, which I thought was really cute, that combo of the moss and the allium. And allium is this round, purple, puffy ball. It reminds me of Dr. Seuss' Whoville. Mm. So it is just such a whimsical feeling when I look at that one. And they can be so big, and they can be small. I have some in my garden that are small purple balls. Mm-hmm. So were yours the really large, like the size of a kid's face? Yeah. I didn't even know that there were small ones. There's just so many- Oh, there's small, yeah varieties that I'm learning every day. So we had the big ones. Okay, the really big. Yeah, the really big ones. And then the snake alliums did you play with the snake allium that is just the- The ones that are kind of curvy? It's just got the coolest stems- Yeah the coolest curves. Did you guys do those? I know. I, we had some of those, yeah. Oh, okay. They're really, really cool. The quirkier, I feel like, the better, the more imperfections they have. They're so fun to play with. Yeah. And then did you guys, on the ikebana day, work with curly willow? We didn't. You know what I'm talking about, right? I don't. 'Cause I've got it in my corner. They look like sticks. Yeah. And it adds so much fun height when you stick that into an arrangement. It's kind of unexpected. Oh, my gosh, what a dream that studio is. I know. I love when people come to my house, and they're like, "Oh, it does look like a flower shop in here." "I didn't really expect that." You should have your own pop-ups. Oh, I know, I know. So what about least favorite flower? Was there anything that you just either didn't like the way it looked, or it was hard to use or hard to design with? Ooh. I don't think I had a least favorite flower. There was one day where we worked with carnations. Mm-hmm. And I'm only saying this 'cause I feel like carnations get a really bad rep because you associate it with the grocery store flower, or for me, I associate it with when we did little Valentine's grams in school growing up. Yeah. But they're- Yeah come in so many different varieties, so many different colors. They last really long. Mm-hmm. They also taught us this hack, which I'm sure you probably know too, of picking the insides of the carnation to help it breathe a little bit more. It shows m- a little bit more of the interior colors and transforms it a little bit. It's so much prettier- Yeah when you do that. You just pluck those inner petals out. Yeah. Same thing with sunflowers. Sunflowers are not generally my favorite type of flower, but there was one arrangement where you picked off all of the yellow petals, so you're just left with I don't even know what it's called- the sepals or the, yeah. Yeah, which is just this green kinda almost monster-y looking thing. Yeah. But it just makes it look a lot more contemporary and really interesting to look at. There's a flower called coneflower, or echinacea but they have a really cool center that's this orange spiky-looking, textural thing. But the petals there's always bugs that get to it or one petal comes off. So the idea of picking off the petals for the other parts of the flower, it's gonna last forever. It's gonna look so different. Yeah. There, there are cool ways I learned through the program to think outside of the box with your flowers. So like the sunflowers, we also used tulips, but we inverted the petals, and they look like a completely different flower. Yeah. Super fun. And now I press my flowers as well. Oh, cool. So I can make crafts out of dried flowers too. Ooh. Have you done jewelry with dried flowers? No, I haven't. I bought a pair of really pretty earrings that are all dried flowers little straw flowers all glued down, really colorful I bought them because I wanna be able to sell things that are long-lasting for people who wanna purchase from my business, but, don't have someone to give the flowers to tonight, you know? Right. So I thought if I can do floral jewelry, that could be a nice way to- That's so cool. I'll look into that. I've not heard of that. But any way to extend the joy that people get from flowers is really cool. Yeah. Did you learn any tips with orchids? Because I love, obviously love, everyone loves orchids. But they can be really challenging to use in design just because they're so long and they move where they want. And, you wanna break it up because, one, they're expensive so you wanna see a pop here and a pop there. Did you guys play at all with any type of orchid? Ooh. We actually only used orchids on our botanical jewelry day. Oh. So I think for that day I had made a headpiece, and I think I might have just glued that little nubby bit to the- Mm the headpiece. So we didn't learn any tips in particular, but I would imagine maybe using, like, wire or something to- like, if you wired the, the stem and so you can kinda bend the flower to a little bit where you want or, um... That's what I could- Yeah think of offhand, but I don't actually know. That's probably a good way to get it in the exact spot you want 'cause you always feel bad some of them are hidden and you're like, "I don't wanna hide a single orchid." Yeah. So did you guys do some wiring did you put the wire through the center? I don't think we did. We talked about it. I don't know that- Yeah I actually did it, though. Okay. Okay. But there were a couple tips and tricks like that, that they had mentioned. Yeah. That's good if you want it to last longer. So not really for an event, 'cause for those you don't really, it doesn't really matter if it lasts past the wedding. But- Mm-hmm if you want it to last in someone's house as long as possible. At first I was like, "I don't wanna ever stick a wire in a flower. That seems so wrong." But honestly then for your customers it's really great because it'll last- Last longer a lot longer. Even for zinnias, I've got a bunch of zinnias, and I've been using them a lot, but I'll notice 'cause the head is so heavy when it's got a lot of petals and it's really pretty, that it'll break the stem. But if I had wired it, I could have had it last perfectly for much longer. So I'm a big fan of buying the floral wire, so I can send you links for that. Yeah. It's just a green piece, like- Yeah, it's just a green wire, and you can cut it to the size you need. Yeah. I realize that florists are quite, crafty in their own way thinking of the different mechanics and how to manipulate. So using the flower wire, like you just said, to, stick in a stem, using them to be little, like, hooks to secure stems in place., I didn't realize that before going into this whole program. Yeah. I remember seeing something on Instagram. It was a famous actress, now I can't remember her name, from the show Nobody Wants This. Mm-hmm. The blonde girl. But anyway, she was at some big Hollywood award thing, and she was obsessed with these flowers. She was like, "These are real?" And all the floral designers were like, "It's real." But it's actually not one flower. What they did was they added on, they glued on more petals from other roses to make these roses look just enormous. Mm. Mm. So it was, there was just so much, done, you know, to make it look that way. Mm-hmm. It was not naturally grown that, that large. But cool how you can just do that, glue on extra petals and have it be, like, the size of, you know. Yeah. It's really, it's- Really make it more interesting it's art. Yeah. It's arts and crafts at that point. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Oh, so You're in New York City, so you probably don't have a garden or grow your own flowers. I wish. I wish so bad. No, that would be my dream to have- Yeah my own flower garden. Um, so you'll have to tell me all about it, 'cause I'm, I stay dreaming. Yeah. You're just gonna have to meet somebody who lives out in the country and just gives you a piece of their property, and you can just have a weekend getaway, and then tell them that you'll grow flowers for them in exchange for staying out there whenever you want. And then you just have to make a little deal like that with somebody. Somebody listening might offer you a deal. Yeah. Yeah. If you're interested, here's my- Maybe in Italy or something. Maybe this Italian woman's gonna reach out to you. I might come farm her, her villa or something. So what do you think you might wanna do with this either in career, or are you thinking about career switch? Are you thinking about just side extra craft- Mm-hmm workshops or? I think, yeah, no, that's a really good question. I think at this point it's still more a hobby. Well, okay, I have intentions of continuing to practice and really just seeing where it goes from there. If there's, you know, floral designers in New York that need extra hands, would love to work with floral designers. Maybe I'll now with like socials and stuff reach out to some people if, um- Mm if I really like their work, and, and would love to, to collaborate. There's just s- so much to learn from other people, so I don't wanna just, you know, silo my practice into just a solo experience. So I would love to keep working with people if I can. There must be in New York so many events and so many incredible designers. I interviewed one person who I met who came out to Virginia. So her business is called Brooklyn Blooms. But she was so cool, and I loved her style when I watched her designing out here. And so I was so excited to have her on my show. Um, she was like making pancakes at the same time. It was... Like she was just- the coolest person. I was like, "You're just over there making pancakes, okay. Well, I'll ask you my questions." Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, the freelancing world, right, where you could work with another designer and their team just to help out for events. If I didn't have kids, I would be doing that all the time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that's a great thing for a young person interested in flowers to try. Yeah, and it's a whole new world for me, honestly, so I, I... There's only things to learn at this point... And I don't even know what I don't know. So I don't know if you have tips on how to reach out, or if you need a hand, if anybody listening needs a hand, hit me up. Yeah, I mean, so you will, you will fly out wherever this wedding is. Like, if somebody's getting married in Australia and you need services, she will happily freelance for you. As long as you pay for her ticket. You know, you could literally travel the world. I mean, and I feel like designers like the big ones, right, they... Like someone wants them, and they have them go and do their wedding wherever their, their wedding is. There's a lot of travel opportunity. Um, so I think you could, you could get lots of cool freelancing gigs and- Mm-hmm you know, eventually maybe start your own business or, you know- Yeah, well- keep it smaller, whatever. Um- Yeah, or at the very least I'll just continue sharing with my, what I learn with my community. Yeah. Well, I mean, flowers really change a mood and they... Did you feel like that in the two weeks? So you took your arrangements home every day, and you put them in your hotel and got to see them around you every day? Or what did you do at the end with your flowers each day? Yeah. So the flower school is in Madrid maybe about 20 and 30 minutes by metro from the main city center, but still part of Madrid. Mm-hmm. And I stayed in an Airbnb a three-minute walk, so super close. Oh, nice. And it actually ended up working out for the better. There were some people who metroed in from further and some people walking distance. Mm-hmm. I really liked the walking distance though, because usually at the end of the day you would get to take your arrangements home. You'd also get to keep the vessels and whatever tools- Mm that you used. Okay. So it worked out that I could just walk very close, drop off my stuff, and then go back out to eat or continue exploring or rest. Yeah. Oh, that is nice. So by the end, every day there's something new in your Airbnb- Yeah that must have just felt so beautiful. You're like, "All of this I made." It's different when you make it flowers around. Yeah. And things that you did, and all the different styles, you know? Yeah, yeah. Which was your favorite style? Mm let's see. I definitely really love garden-style arrangements. Oh. That was our second day that we learned. Mm-hmm. And that's actually the style that I'm doing for the workshop that I'm hosting for my friends this weekend. Okay. And particularly as a beginner who went into the program, I knew beforehand that I liked garden-style arrangements- Mm-hmm but when you just look at it, there's a lot going on. And it's a little bit difficult to understand exactly how to make that because there is so much. So usually, like during class, we would start with a demo by one of our instructors, and they would show you their whole process of the arrangement from start to finish- Right and they would talk through their process and what they were thinking throughout. Mm-hmm. So I realized that's really helpful to be able to see somebody work through beginning to end. Mm-hmm. Um, and it kind of helped break down a little bit more methodically, how you get to that end result. Did you guys draw things first? I think I saw some of your pictures there was only, I think, two days where we did some sketching- Okay which I still find difficult, 'cause I don't really know how to sketch flowers. I, that's a skill I need to work on on my own. Right. And also sketching your vision is, I'm, I don't know. I, I realize there's like a mix of going in with a plan, but then also being able- Yeah to adjust based on how things feel or how they look in real life. Right. So I'm still trying to work out that balance. But a plan is really helpful. Yeah. Oh, another question. What did they say about floral foam, and did you use floral foam? We did not use floral foam. Okay, good. We used exclusively chicken wire. Okay. And just not the coated chicken wire, just the plain chicken wire. Just the plain silver- Mm-hmm silver one. Yeah, that's, that's awesome. When I first started I was making the grid, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is really hard. How..." Then I went to a workshop where I met Brooklyn Blooms and a bunch of other big designers, Bloom Jasmine, all these people. It was in Waterford, and, um, Holly Chapple is a big name in floral design. Mm-hmm. She was the host of it at her flower farm. And they were all using these huge urns and fall branches. It was in the fall, so fall branches of foliage. It was amazing, and it was all chicken wire. Mm-hmm. So I literally left that, and it kind of felt for me that weekend was like flower school. I was like, "Chicken wire. I'm going to Home Depot- and I'm buying chicken wire," you know? It was just like, oh my gosh, you know. So I never saw foam. They talked about foam. Not using foam. No one used foam there. Um, so I think that's the future, and I'm glad that at the school they didn't use that. Mm-hmm. Huge, yeah, it's a huge unlock. Yeah. Wow. It hurts my fingers, though, I'm not gonna lie. Oh, the chicken wire? Yeah. To just secure it in place. So I, I need to grow stronger fingers, I think. Yeah. That's probably... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't ever wear gloves, but I mean, you know, I feel like it's really hard to work with even a really thin garden glove on. Mm-hmm. Um, so that's my, what I try to do is, when I can, is buy local flowers so I know there's fewer chemicals. So if I'm, if it's all in my house like it is, they're not- Mm-hmm I'm not bringing it in, I'm not, I'm touching it, I'm breathing, they can, I can smell them, like they have more scent. Yeah. We, we had gloves in the beginning of the program- Really? and like the whole, talk about safety and stuff. But then in practice, you stop using them. Yeah. Like, it's just, it's nice to feel everything. Yeah. So you have... Well, it's so nice talking to you, Eileen. I cannot wait to hear and see what happens with your workshop with your friends, and I hope that so many doors open after this for you, and I'm just, I'm so inspired by your story, as, a designer myself and I think just for also people to know all the things that go into floral design, it- that it's so much more. And that's what I loved about your episodes, your series. It was, it showed there's so much to it. There's, so much engineering and art and I don't know that just a regular person would, would sort of see that when you plan a wedding and see how expensive it is. You're like, "Wait, why?" You know? Mm-hmm. So you really showed why it's expensive, why they are expensive, It's for a reason. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And also, uh, if you don't mind, I'd love to add on that too. A lot of people ask me, like in my DMs or comments, "Is it worth it? Was the program worth it?" And I think it really depends. If you're considering it, it really depends on what your personal goals are. So, for me, going into the program- I, you could argue that maybe you'd want a little bit more experience before, like, really making an investment like that to jump into the program. I actually almost feel like I got more value out of the program being a beginner, because I, I love to just jump right in rather than spin my circles on YouTube. I'd rather just, like, start working with a thing and learn from people who are more experienced than me. And for me personally if we'll touch on the cost thing, like, practicing arrangements for me prior to the program, and even still now after the program, it's a bit intimidating because I'm in New York, so I'll go to the flower market and I'll ask, you know, "How much is this bunch of flowers?" And they're like, "$50 for 10 stems," or whatever it is. And that, it's just kind of like a sticker shock moment. Right. So I found it really challenging to really source materials, allow myself the space to practice and play, because I was just thinking about like, "Okay this stem costs this much, this costs this much." Right. So yes, the program was definitely an investment. But for me, it, it took off a huge mental load to have everything sourced for us. Yeah. It was sourced from Holland, and Madrid is much closer to Holland than we are in the States. Mm-hmm. So we had these really great quality supplies, the instruction, and it, it just really gave me the opportunity to focus on the design more- Yeah than the cost of things. So that was, like, a big reason for me why it was worth it. But it will really just depend on what your own personal experience and goals are. But if anybody is seriously interested, you can definitely feel free to send me a DM, and I'm happy to talk about my experience with you. Oh, that is so nice. I mean, you sounded like an expert. When I was watching, I was like, "She knows what she's talking about." I mean, and you were just 10 days of doing it, but because you came in not having done much work with florals, you learned like 50 times more than someone who's maybe already experienced. So I think going in as a beginner, is a great idea. Yeah. I know everybody says things like, "You could just learn that on YouTube. You can learn that by yourself." In theory, sure, but I don't have the patience for that, and I would rather be around the people that know what they're talking about. And we talked about this beforehand. It was such an international group. How many people were in your group, and where were they all from? Yeah. So our classes were about 14 to 15 people during the two weeks that I was there. And then I think the third and the fourth week it trickles, down a little bit. So 14, about 14 to 15, and it was quite an international group. So we had a couple folks from the US, from Canada, from Italy, France. We even had people from Indonesia and the Philippines, so really all over which is just really cool. I don't get that experie- experience much to collaborate with people that have the shared interest from all over the world. So now all of those people in all of those amazing places, you can go and visit or do a flower collab where you bring your friends or whoever in New York City wants to join you on an adventure, 'cause you're a big adventurer now go with you to Indonesia, and be in Bali and do the same thing. Yeah. But just have a retreat, getaway however you wanna design it, when it's good for you and your collaborator there. It's so cool that you now have all these people who love flowers that you know all over the world, um- Mm-hmm so I think it's gonna- Yeah, we all follow each other's, like- Yeah flower accounts and stuff- Oh, that's so cool so I can see what they're up to. Yeah, it's really great. Yeah. Well, that's so nice. So if anyone's interested, contact Eileen and she will give you more insight, and we're just wishing everyone lots of wonderful things, whether you do flower school whatever it is out there that you're interested and passionate about, even if you know nothing, jump in. And Eileen says it's worth it. You've inspired lots of people. And if anyone not to sound like an advertisement, I just- enjoyed my experience, but if anybody is seriously thinking about doing the program, specifically the two-week intensive or the full four, four-week program, I do have a discount code. So if you send me a DM at Eileen Makes Stuff- Ooh ask for the code. I'll share with you. It's not huge, but it's a couple hundred off. Eileen, thank you so much for being on the show, and I'm excited to hear about your workshop and see what your friends create. Thank you so much, Lisa. This was so cool b- It was fun being on a podcast. It was fun. It was fun.