Unhitched But Not Unhinged Podcast

E3: Untying the Knot and Your Real Estate with Clarity

• Tessa James • Episode 3

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Navigating the choppy waters of divorce can leave your biggest assets—like your home—in uncertain territory. That's why we brought in the big guns for our latest episode—expert real estate broker Michael Lawrence. With 17 years under his belt and a compassionate heart, Michael joins me, Tessa James, and my co-host Susan, to reveal how to keep a level head when selling property under the strain of a marital split. His insights are a must-hear for anyone facing the daunting task of untangling their life and their real estate during a divorce.

In our heart-to-heart with Michael, we uncover the crucial balance between empathy and facts in real estate transactions during these trying times. He shares his strategies for managing conflict, ensuring crystal-clear communication, and fostering trust—an invaluable trifecta in the world of divorce and real estate. If you're pondering a farewell to your marital home or already knee-deep in the process, this conversation is an enlightening guide through the intersection of real estate law and emotional upheaval. Michael's expertise could be the key to turning a new page in your life with confidence and peace of mind.

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Produced by Video Pro San Diego and recorded at the GoBeRewarded Podcasting Studio in San Diego. Visit the VPSD here https://www.videoprosandiego.com/

Tessa James:

Hi everybody. Welcome to Unhitched but not unhinged podcast. With me, your host, Tessa James, I'm your divorce coach and, as always by my side, my co-host Susan. Hi everyone.

Susan Lee:

Hi Tess. So it's time to tackle another topic and help bring awareness to just how valuable partnering with a divorce coach can be. So the Unhitched but not unhinged podcast and content posted by Tessa James is presented solely for general informational, entertainment and educational purposes.

Tessa James:

Thank you so much. So if you're even contemplating a divorce, it's just in the front of your mind, in the back of your mind, or you're actually going through a divorce currently. This podcast is for you. So I want to welcome somebody really special today. His name is Michael Lawrence. Hi, michael, how are you today?

Michael Lawrence:

I'm doing really well. Thank you for inviting me to participate in your show.

Tessa James:

I'm so happy that you're here. You have such a wealth of knowledge and you're so professional. I could just go on and on and on, but I'm so excited that you're here, so welcome. Tell everybody a little bit about what you do and who you are.

Michael Lawrence:

Okay, great. Well, I am a real estate broker. I have been licensed in the state of California for 17 years as a real estate agent and became a broker about eight years ago now, and so I help people with one of the largest purchases and or sales of their lives. So I take a lot of pride in what I do and it's an honor to help, you know, with this sort of major purchase or sale, and your brokerage is GML Homes.

Michael Lawrence:

That's correct. Yes, GML Homes. I had been with several different brokerages in the past and felt that it was about time for me to kind of branch out and create GML Homes, which is obviously my namesake.

Tessa James:

Fantastic Again. Thanks so much, Michael. Let's talk about some issues People wanting to sell their homes and they're going through a divorce. Basically, I mean, your home is like the biggest asset. Let's talk about how you handle conflict, and how will you handle conflict when you're dealing with somebody that's going through a divorce and divorce is almost all conflict right Good point Well, you know, it's funny because I'm actually helping a couple right now that are going through a divorce and you know, in dealing with

Michael Lawrence:

conflict. Obviously there's quite a bit of conflict. And there's quite a bit of conflict as we're going through the process and you know, really it's a factual sort of situation for me. I'm fact gathering and I am dealing specifically with the facts and I'm trying to, you know, be empathetic to both sides of the transaction because technically I'm working for both parties. So you know, I don't have side conversations unless it's a support sort of situation. Everything is above and above board and everything is really well communicated out.

Susan Lee:

Yeah, that communication is super important, especially that it's not siloed right.

Michael Lawrence:

Correct. Yeah, because then you'll get into situations where he said, she said, and then you get the loss of trust, which I think is what makes this. The most important sort of aspect of dissolving a relationship is having trust in those professionals that are supporting you.

Tessa James:

Absolutely so. Do you ever have an opportunity or are you faced with having to discuss anything with, maybe your seller's attorney?

Michael Lawrence:

You know it's a rare occasion. I imagine that it's going to be specifically when the attorney is given power of attorney by a party, and that would be very specific. Where you know, I am not going to talk to an attorney unless they are provided with power of attorney and they are, you know, speaking on behalf of their client, because I, technically, am working for the owners of the homes and not the attorney.

Tessa James:

Yeah, absolutely, that's a really, really good point. So do you have any specific training or anything that you have to really be conscious of as far as real estate laws and how they affect real estate and when a party is going through a divorce, how that impacts the sale of the house, or you know, as a real estate broker, I've had decades of, you know, being in the industry and also the fact that I have a higher standard because I am a broker Going through the transaction.

Michael Lawrence:

You know we have a lot of support staff that work with us. So, for example, we have a title company, we have an escrow company. All of these individuals are impartial entities, as am I in this sort of situation, that help guide the process through, you know, the transaction of selling an asset, because that's really what we're looking at here. So, training when it comes to dealing with this sort of transaction, again, I've been, let's say, the professional industry of hotel asset management for over 30 years and have had, you know, multiple employees in my you know my oversight and currently oversee two properties in Hawaii and I have 60 employees. So you know understanding that every issue that's brought to your attention is a very valid issue, whether you believe in it or not, and treating it as such is what's really important as we go through the process of selling your property.

Tessa James:

Absolutely, and I can say first hand because you and I have worked together on a real estate purchase and sale. Tell me a little bit about this couple that you're helping.

Michael Lawrence:

They're a really big couple and I will be as vague as possible. They're a very big couple. I adore them, both independent of each other and together. As they were a couple, they grew apart and you know as oftentimes that's what happens. There was, unfortunately, in this situation, there was no cheating, there was no infidelity, there was no financial infidelity. It's just they grew apart, they grew different directions and, you know, maintaining that sort of relationship, both professional and personal, with each one has been really interesting to kind of segregate them into their own categories.

Michael Lawrence:

So they're going through a divorce, they have an asset in Los Angeles and they are working through the details of selling the property and they're working through some details in finalizing, let's say, a permit on the property so that we can get the home ready for sale. So I'm working through all those you know, particulars with each one independent of each other because they're just not communicating with each other. I showed the property this past week and they were literally arguing with each other. So me, I'm being impartial, I'm sticking with the facts, reminding them we have a show incoming in a few minutes and you know again trying to, you know, be as impartial as possible especially, it's not hard to be neutral.

Michael Lawrence:

It is. It's very difficult with me, knowing them for over 10 years too.

Susan Lee:

Yeah, especially that, for sure yeah for sure and.

Tessa James:

I'm sure you have your opinions and everything, but you know and I can say Michael's so professional and he really really does such a great job in working with both sides and both people buyer, seller, etc. And he does have a very calming presence and you do have a very trustworthy nature. Look at that face. He does, he has such a good nature, so professional, and I'm sure you're just successful at what you do and I understand why.

Susan Lee:

Let's talk a little bit about California and community property and community property presumption in California and as a reminder, the unhinged but not unhinged podcast and content posted by Tessa James is presented solely for general informational, educational and entertainment purposes.

Tessa James:

So we are discussing the biggest asset, or typically what is the biggest asset in a couple's or a marriage, and that is your real estate in your home. Yeah, one of them, for sure.

Tessa James:

Yeah and in California, property that spouses acquire during the marriage is community property, except for gifts, inheritances and profits or rents on separate property, such as a second home or business that has owned before that has been owned before the marriage.

Tessa James:

Also, california law presumes that all property spouses acquire during the marriage has joint tenants is community property, unless they have written proof otherwise, such as a clear statement or a written agreement, that it is separate property. So, for instance, your house would be community property and both you and your spouse would have an equal interest in it if you one bought the home during marriage, are both listed on the title and used only community property funds for the down payment and mortgage payments, and this is really really important. Of course it's not always that simple, but, for example, say you and your spouse bought a home, bought a home during the marriage, but the title is in your spouse's name only. Based on the title, the law presumes that the home belongs to your spouse as separate property. You might be able to overcome that presumption by providing the two of you had an agreement that you both owned the house, but you'll need a strong evidence and need strong evidence to back up your claim. Do you have anything to add on that, mike.

Michael Lawrence:

So that last statement that you made about a home that's owned by one of the partners going into a relationship prior to going into that relationship. What I've experienced in the past is that as long as both parties post marriage are contributing to that household, the party that's not on title is equal to potentially 50% of the gain in value of that home from the time of marriage to the time of divorce. So let's say, for example, the property at SimpleMass property goes up half a million dollars during the 20 years they own it and the party that's not on title is contributing to the household they're entitled to potentially 50% of that gain.

Tessa James:

That's a really, really good point and a lot of people don't realize that. However, you do have to prove that what you have put into that home actually went towards renovations and improving the home. But not necessarily, you know, not difficult to do. You definitely can do that.

Tessa James:

Also, I came from a situation where my former spouse had separate property in his name. Only he withdrew funds out of the equity. So he took a home equity loan as the down payment on our new marital home. So we got married and then we both bought a home, but the actual down payment funds were from his separate property. So what I had done was I had a form that he filled out saying that we both shared in that down payment, that they were actually considered community and marital funds and that I wouldn't have to pay that back actually, and it was notarized and signed and everything else. Well, that piece of paper was, and came to be, so important because we filed, you know, for divorce and going through the divorce proceedings, that was brought up because he, of course, thought he was going to get that down payment back and that wasn't the case.

Susan Lee:

Well, you know, I have a question for you, Michael. So what have you come across? The situation where, let's say, you're selling a home that's in trust. You know how do you handle that? Or is that something that has to be handled before you work with the couple? And then my other question is if a couple is purchasing a home and let's say they're married, they purchase a home, but for some reason or another, they want the home titled under just one spouse. Have you ever come across anything like that, and how would you advise the people buying the home at that point?

Michael Lawrence:

Selling a home in trust is just really understanding the trust and reviewing the trust document and understanding who the trustees are on that state. Essentially, that typically is handled through title, because title is the one that is going to convey a clear title essentially, and they would require all trustees to participate in the transaction.

Susan Lee:

Okay, so I have another question for you, michael. So what if a married couple is purchasing a home and, for some reason, they decide that only one person is going to be on the title? Have you ever run across that and would you ever advise anybody for or against that?

Michael Lawrence:

You know that happens more often than not. The reason is typically credit related, so one individual can get the loan if the other individual, the other partner in that transaction, cannot because of credit. They usually go with the route of having one person on the loan and on title and they often have an agreement that post-close, a VESCRO, that they will. You know they'll do a grant deed and add the second spouse to the title.

Tessa James:

But, still in the state of California. Even if one spouse is on the loan and even if the title is, you know, just in that person's name and not it doesn't have the other spouse on there. If the property was purchased during the time of marriage, it is deemed community property. It really is.

Michael Lawrence:

And I'll give you an example in my own personal sort of life. I'm married and I purchased an investment home recently and because we didn't want to go through the hassle of all the additional paperwork required for my spouse, my spouse quit claim the property to me. So you cannot enter into a purchase if you're married without having a quick claim from your partner, which is what Tess just pointed out as well.

Susan Lee:

Yeah, okay, it's very interesting.

Tessa James:

It is A lot to think about, for sure, a lot to think about Be willy-nilly about it. No, no, and I really would encourage people to that are newly married or are thinking about purchasing, you know, a home together and they are married, or even if they're not, and they're, they're engaged. I mean, really get a good sense of what you're dealing with and California laws and talk to Michael about it. And, michael, where can people reach you and get in contact with you?

Michael Lawrence:

You know there are several locations they go to. They can go to my website, which is gmlhomescom, or they can call me 310-406-4739. Easiest route is probably the website. My contact information is there.

Tessa James:

Excellent and I'm always available. You can reach me via my website as well wwwtrustintessacom. All of my contact information is there.

Susan Lee:

Well, I think that's a wrap. Thanks, michael, it was so nice speaking to you, and thanks, tessa. Thanks for explaining the benefits of partnering with you as a divorce coach and thanks for tuning in. Everyone interested in chatting with Tessa Please go to wwwtrustintessacom and book a complementary discovery session with her.

Tessa James:

Yeah, thanks everybody, and I do want to just make a quick mention. Yesterday was World Cancer Day, and Michael and I have known each other for quite a while, haven't we? Michael, many, many years, and we also know a couple of really wonderful women that have gone through some bouts of cancer recently actually, and as a cancer survivor myself, I want to mention that I have partnered with a cancer foundation, a breast cancer foundation called Know your Lemons, and a small percentage of what my clients pay me goes directly to this foundation and you can get more information again on my website, wwwtrustintessacom. I love that. Know your Lemons, know your Lemons. Have a positive and productive day everybody.