Disrupting the Inner Critic: Dr. Risa Ryger on Writing, Change, and the Self-Owned Mindset

This is the 75th episode of the Writing and Resilience Podcast, and I would not have made it this far without your generous support of this podcast and my work. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Now, about today’s episode. What if the key to writing through pain isn't pushing harder, but rather being radically kinder to yourself? That's what I'll explore with Dr. Risa Ryger, clinical psychologist, international speaker and founder of 93% Consulting. We explore what it really means to change and write through pain, not from a place of brutal self-judgment, but from a place of self-trust, curiosity, and compassion. 

If you're navigating trauma in your writing, wrestling with your inner critic, or wondering how to begin without overwhelming yourself, this conversation is here to support you. Get ready to feel seen, affirmed, and gently challenged. 

Episode Highlights

• 2:11: Starting from the Place of Not Knowing
• 4:31: Disruption Isn’t Destruction
• 5:55: Pain in the Change Process
• 14:22: Don’t Get Stuck in the Binary
• 18:24: The Self-Owned Mindset 

Resources Mentioned During this Episode: 

• Disruptive Conversation with Tia Levings
• Disruptive Conversation with Lisa Cooper Ellison
• Disruptive Conversation with Madonna Williams
• How to Stop Gaslighting Yourself with Ingrid Clayton

Dr. Ryger’s Bio: Dr. Risa Ryger is a Clinical Psychologist, International Speaker, Author, Founder of 93% Consulting, and the Creator of The Disruptive Self-Ownership ProcessTM who served as a consultant psychologist for victim services. She is the host of the weekly Instagram Live series: Disruptive Conversations with Dr. Risa Ryger and she earned her Master of Science, Master of Philosophy, and Doctorate from Columbia University. Creator of the Self-Owned Mindset, she is an excerpt on change whose goal is to help women stop playing small and have the confidence and self-trust to powerfully step forward into their lives and say, I’ve got this.” Dr. Ryger is the proud mother of 2 amazing daughters and lives in NY with her husband and two dogs, Penelope and Sammy – the dog who smiles. 

Connect with Dr. Ryger:  

• Website: https://www.drrisaryger.com/
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/dr.risaryger
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-risa-ryger-6

Connect with your host, Lisa:
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Produced by Espresso Podcast Production

Chapters

• 2:11 Starting from the Place of Not Knowing
• 4:31 Disruption Isn’t Destruction
• 5:55 Pain in the Change Process
• 14:22 Don’t Get Stuck in the Binary
• 18:42 The Self-Owned Mindset

Transcript

Transcript for Writing Your Resilience Podcast Episode 75

 Disrupting the Inner Critic: Dr. Risa Ryger on Writing, Change, and the Self-Owned Mindset

This is the 75th episode of the Writing and Resilience Podcast, and I would not have made it this far without your generous support of this podcast and my work. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Now, about today’s episode. What if the key to writing through pain isn't pushing harder, but rather being radically kinder to yourself? That's what I'll explore with Dr. Risa Ryger, clinical psychologist, international speaker and founder of 93% Consulting. During this episode, we discuss what it really means to change and write through pain, not from a place of brutal self-judgment, but from a place of self-trust, curiosity, and compassion. 

If you're navigating trauma in your writing, wrestling with your inner critic, or wondering how to begin without overwhelming yourself, this conversation is here to support you. Get ready to feel seen, affirmed, and gently challenged. 

Lisa Cooper Ellison [0:00]
Well, hello Risa. Welcome to the Writing Your Resilience podcast. I am so delighted to have you on, and I am so excited about today's conversation.

Dr. Risa Ryger [0:08]
Well, I'm thrilled to be here with you, and thanks so much. This is a conversation that's been percolating for a while, so we get to go right into it.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [0:18]
Yeah, and I want to say that just even the conversation we had before we hit the record button was an absolute gift. So, I'm really excited today about all the things we're going to dive into regarding disruptive conversations, how we talk to ourselves, and how we can change those things so that we can live our 10.0 lives—something you talk about a lot on your Instagram Lives.

But before we get into that, I love to give my guests the first shot at telling us a little about themselves. So, what would you like us to know about you and your work?

Dr. Risa Ryger [0:49]
That's a great question. And I always find this moment of, how do we present ourselves—and as writers, as clinicians—it’s an important one. One of the best ways I have found to introduce myself is that I’m an expert in change.

For decades, my work has been dedicated and devoted to helping individuals, teams, and companies make important, positive change. And as you know—and what I often say—is that the great news is that positive change can happen at any point. We're not too late.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [1:30]
I love that, and that's one of the things I've loved about listening to your Disruptive Conversations, which you share on Instagram. And so, listeners, if you have not yet checked those out, definitely do so—I’ll put a couple of them in the show notes.

So, let's start there. You have these conversations, and I was going through your Instagram earlier today, and I kept scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. So how long have you been doing these Disruptive Conversations?

Dr. Risa Ryger [1:55]
I'm in my second year of doing that, and one of the things I want to say is that when I started them, I really started from an extraordinary place of not knowing. And it wasn’t that I had been doing Instagram Lives—I hadn’t—but oftentimes, when we have this gap between what we’ve been doing and what we would like to do, we need to traverse that gap so it’s no longer a gap. Because we've now been experiencing and practicing it.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [2:35]
And I was able to be on your show, and what I love is how you hold us through that process. Carly—shout out to Carly, your VA who helps you with this—you just prepared us so well.

And what I also love, in addition to the conversation I had and the other conversations you’ve had—with entrepreneurs, with artists, with writers—about the changes they’ve made in their lives, is that you end with this message to us: Who else do you know who might also be interested in being on the show? So that it becomes this gift that keeps on giving.

Dr. Risa Ryger [3:11]
I think that there are so many people—and Instagram Live is dedicated to women. Men should listen to it also, because they need the insight and greater understanding. So, although it’s an Instagram Live about women, it’s for everyone. And it’s important to hear and to understand that. There’s so much to be shared.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [3:37]
What I love is that each person is sharing just a slightly different version of the same theme of change. And so, you’ve been doing this for two years. What have you learned from all these incredible women that you have interviewed?

Dr. Risa Ryger [3:53]
What I have learned is that from each and every person, there is wisdom to be heard—and that we need to listen.

What I like so much is that I have a really huge breadth of women in all different areas of work and life, at different times and in different phases of their lives. It gives us a moment to really dive deeper and understand more.

And as you talk about the disruptive process, I want to be really clear: disruption is not destruction. Being disruptive isn't about being destructive. There are two kinds of disruption—there’s the disruption that we initiate, and there’s also the disruption that comes to us, that we need to be able to, within ourselves, meet in the moment.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [4:57]
I love how you're saying that disruption is not destruction. And I think that's so important for my listeners, because so many of them are writers. They are working on really tough stories. They're navigating a really tough field—writing and publishing.

And sometimes, the stories that we tell ourselves when we're in the crucible—that's one of the ways I think about it—you know, and I've had many crucibles in my life. I lost my brother Joe to suicide. I had Lyme disease. I had these different things happen in my life that became these crucibles.

The pain we experience when we are in the thick of it can feel like destruction. So, I'm wondering if we can just talk about pain for a moment—how pain shows up in the stories it causes us to tell ourselves, and how that works with the change process.

Dr. Risa Ryger [5:56]
That is a great question—and that’s a huge question. Change and pain are so intertwined because with change, there comes a degree of pain, uncertainty, discomfort, and disruption.

The level of pain—and the situations, experiences, and feelings you’ve had—really resonate, and they show up at different levels of intensity. While you were talking, I was thinking that as a clinician and consultant, I listen to a lot of pain. We bear witness—we hear and are available to hear the pain.

When you're writing, it's a really interesting, multifaceted, multi-dimensional process, because you’re in several places at once. You are both the speaker, the explorer, and the discoverer. Most people write on their computers—you come up with a blank screen—and it is totally your decision, your power, your agency in what you choose to put on there. It’s completely up to you.

There’s a coming-to-oneself time, because it’s you and you and a blank sheet. And where you start isn’t necessarily where you end up. But starting somewhere really does count—and you can’t start in the wrong spot.

So, the pain is about the things we haven’t thought about—or that we’ve pushed away. I talk about this in terms of building the self-owned mindset, which we’ll discuss more—about needing to disrupt what we’ve lost about ourselves, what we’ve pushed aside about ourselves. And not because we’re weak.

There are all sorts of messaging and experiences that teach us to cut off, abandon, disown, and separate ourselves from aspects of who we are. And pain is one of those places.

To make change, there’s a degree of discomfort. Change isn’t necessarily “whoop-dee-doo,” because we have a lot inside ourselves that resists it.

So here you are, in the moment of “I want to write about my experience,” and that experience is painful. You’re in several places simultaneously: you’re the person who experienced the pain, the person going into yourself, the person putting the words on the page—and, simultaneously, if you can stay with me, you're also the person bearing witness to that emerging narrative of what you experienced.

The other aspect of writing memoir—especially when trauma is involved—is that you're in it, you're looking at it, and you're trying to make sense of it all at the same time. So, acknowledging and giving yourself not just approval, but awareness and encouragement— “Yes, this is hard”—is so important.

And there’s one caveat I’d like to add: for women, there’s sometimes this idea of not just honesty—honesty is great, and truth is great—but brutal honesty.

We can have honesty without the brutality.

There’s this notion that if we go in and head straight to the hardest, most painful place—and in the hardest, most brutal way—that means we’re strong. That’s really a piece of mythology. It’s also a language that sets us up for judgment—about how we’re “supposed” to do it, whether we’re doing it “right,” and if we’re “enough.”

There’s nothing that says you have to go to the hardest, most painful place first.

As a matter of fact, studies show that when people are not criticized—not just criticized, but labeled, blamed, and shamed—it fosters growth. The first thing we need to get past is the brutal self-commentary and the mythology that says we have to start with the hardest place.

Building a foundation to support ourselves through the process is what really allows us to go there.

So don’t get stuck. Don’t fall into the mythology—or misogyny—that says you have to go to the hardest place, the most painful place, from the very beginning, full-on. That’s not what gets you there.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [12:20]
Okay, first, I just want to say I am just feeling so much joy right now because you are speaking my language. You are saying so many of the things that I have told clients, that I have told my students, that I talk about on this show—that, yeah, we don't have to begin in the most difficult place.

And in fact, sometimes just dipping your toe into the waters of whatever challenges you're going to write about is important while you are resourcing yourself, right? Building those resources.

And one of the resources you talked about is thinking about the different parts that we play in the process, right? Because what I often tell people with memoir is the very first question that we are asking in that first draft is: What happened to me?

And when we are asking that question, we are—as you shared—the wounded part that went through it, and then we are also these other parts. We are the discoverer; we are the explorer.

And can you cultivate an explorer and a discoverer who is really gentle, who is a good guide for the process—who talks to you in a kind and generous way—as you're making sense of whatever your story is?

And what I find in terms of the storytelling process is that the first draft is just an opportunity to see what you've already been telling yourself. A lot of the agency comes through the revision process, because it's as we revise our stories on the page, we revise them in our minds, we revise them in our bodies. And that changes how we see ourselves.

So yes, we can let go of the brutality and really just operate from a place of curiosity in this process.

Dr. Risa Ryger [14:12]
It's not all or nothing, right? It isn’t all or nothing. Don’t get stuck in that binary way of thinking, because those are the places that get us into what I call—you know—the two traps. One is avoidance, and the other is overwhelm. 

When you start, you start. And a start isn't defined as a toe, all your toes, up to your ankles, up to your waist. We don’t have to define it that way.

Because sometimes even in that language—and I understand where this is coming from, because this is the vernacular and it’s exactly the spot we’re talking about—it’s how you’re framing it and making sense of it in your head.

So, if we're talking about, you know, putting a toe in, that can sound like, "Well, you know, I'm putting a toe in," and that doesn’t sound like very much. But what does the toe mean?

And so, I think we need to develop a different kind of visualization for that. It’s about starting today.

I have a mug—and I chose this specifically—it says “Comfort,” because while we’re doing this, we also need to give ourselves comfort.

And comfort doesn’t mean that we’re not holding ourselves accountable or that we’re shying away. It’s about what we need to have in ourselves to know how we’re going to treat ourselves as we go through this. And that you become that person who is supporting the process as you're also going through the process.

So, starting—however you start—you want to start with a toe, you want to start with an elbow, you're going to start with an ear... You don’t have to have that visualization.

What you can have, and what might be more productive, is asking yourself: What is a visualization or the words I can say to myself that are truthful, acknowledging, not devaluing—that don’t require me to submerge to start?

Starting is starting. And that is the most important piece. That is your most important action—starting.

And sometimes what happens is that we start, and then we need some moments. But that doesn’t mean that it’s forever. It means it’s for now. And then we can go back. And we're not starting over—we're continuing.

All is not lost. What you’ve done, you’ve done. There’s no negating that. What you’ve done doesn’t get erased. You’ve done what you’ve done, and that’s real and true.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [17:04]
Absolutely. And so, what I’m hearing is, you know, sometimes when you say, “dip your toe in,” it sounds like you’re not really committed, or you haven’t really started.

And so, I love that you are offering a new way to think about that, because that’s certainly not what I mean when I’m talking about dipping the toe in.

Mostly what I’m talking about is: start wherever you’re going to start and pay attention to the temperature of the water—if we use that metaphor—so that you’re not forcing yourself.

This is the big thing that I watch people do again and again and again—sometimes because they want to hurry up and get their stories out, for a wide variety of reasons—is that they think: I have to start at the most difficult level.

And so, yeah. Start wherever you are. Notice what it’s like. If you have to pull back, pull back.

But as you said, which I think is so important, never negate the fact that you started, right? You started and you are making progress. And that is so important. And it’s something to be celebrated, right? The fact that you started, and you are making progress and continuing.

And I wonder if this is a great time to also talk about that self-owned mindset. Like, how does that fit with the things we’re talking about today?

Dr. Risa Ryger [18:24]
The self-owned mindset—this is something I’ve given tremendous thought to over my decades of experience and work.

So many of us are familiar with the growth mindset or the fixed mindset. And we have language—just like “toe in the water”—we have language that holds us and frames how we think. It gives us ways of thinking about how we own all of who we are.

That doesn’t mean we have to be thrilled about all of it. But like anything else, we have to see what’s there. And that’s one of the hardest things to do—and to own it.

If you don’t own it, it doesn’t mean it’s not there. It just means it’s working out of your awareness.

The self-owned mindset is a way of really reclaiming all of who you are from the different factors that contribute to what I call self-abandonment.

Trauma is like water. You can be triggered at different times. You can be in the middle of doing something—this isn’t just PTSD we’re talking about. Trauma has a wide range. There’s a broad spectrum, and not all trauma is equal. That doesn’t mean it’s not painful or meaningful, or that it hasn’t affected you.

But there are all different kinds of trauma. One isn’t more important or less important—it’s about understanding that and knowing that PTSD has its own very clear level of symptoms and difficulty.

Okay, so going back: owning all of who you are and bringing that back—so that these aren’t areas that are operating outside your awareness and still affecting you.

Because then you wonder, “Huh, I seem to be dating the same person over and over again... Could there be something I’m missing here? Is there something I need to understand better? What am I listening to, and what am I not listening to?”

And in creating and building our self-owned mindset, that is the place where foundational freedom occurs. That is the place where you have profound choice.

You’ve developed an internal courageousness—through the six steps—to be able to, in time (not all at once—that’s why there are six), look and see.

Take care of your heart. Know that you're not going to be brutal to yourself. Know that you’re not going to treat yourself cruelly. Because when you go into difficult spaces within yourself—and then feel like you’re going to take on the harsh critic, and not take care of yourself—well, that’s a next-level abandonment.

Especially if there were times that others should have been taking care of you differently.

Things happen, even under the best of circumstances. But you can rely on yourself to be kind to yourself and accepting of yourself.

That doesn’t mean: “Whatever I did was perfect and it’s exactly fine.” It’s not a stop point. It’s a start point.

It’s the point where we can develop a level of self-trust to go into these harder places and reclaim ourselves—so we’re not putting effort and energy into keeping things out of our awareness.

That’s part of what a self-owned mindset is—and how, through the steps, we get there.

Because when we go into these places of pain—perhaps shame, perhaps fear—what can help us, what can be the security or hands supporting us as we go through, is that we become the voices of support we may have once wished for.

And we can be them now.

Because now we have what I call the perspective of now. And with the perspective of now, you can be that person—and also that observer—for yourself.

You can be that voice, that supporter, to help you navigate these tough spaces, these tough feelings, these tough experiences.

And as you build more strength and see yourself moving—not necessarily through it, but in it—you begin metabolizing. Making sense of. Acknowledging your feelings.

Acknowledging that those were your feelings then. But they don’t have to be how you feel now. And they don’t have to be how you think about it now.

So, in bringing the perspective of now—along with the knowledge that we are going to be truthful with ourselves, accountable to ourselves—but not horrifically critical, cutting, or brutal...

Lisa Cooper Ellison [24:50]
I love that, and so many thoughts were going through my mind about how I can connect what you're sharing right now to things that I know or things I've experienced. And I'm going to be asking you this question about how people can learn more about this, because I know they’re going to want to know—how they can engage in this process, because it is so powerful.

And, you know, when I think about these things, Marsha Linehan and Dialectical Behavior Therapy is one thing that comes to mind—that message of I accept myself fully, and I can change. I think sometimes she says that in a different way, but this idea that I can accept all of who I am, and I might need to change—both things can be true simultaneously. We can hold space for that.

And Ingrid Clayton—who I know is supposed to be on your show (I hope you’re able to reschedule that one, as I love her)—one of the things she talks about in terms of complex PTSD is that the things that we did may not serve us today, but they sure were helpful back then. So being able to reframe that is so important.

And you're nodding your head, so I'm going to be quiet so you can share something.

Dr. Risa Ryger [26:00]
In part of the process of reclaiming yourself—of really bringing back those abandoned, disowned, and cut-off parts of ourselves—we rescue ourselves. Yeah, we rescue.

And one of the pieces that's so important in relationships is repair. We rescue and we repair.

Because, you know, the goal isn't for us to be isolated and solitary. The goal for us as human beings—I'm not imposing anything—but as human beings, there's so much talk about, “Oh, they're so needy,” or “They're so dependent,” and so there's this notion that… what, are we supposed to not have needs? Am I supposed to not have dependence?

One of the important aspects of being human—of being in our own humanness—is developing our own interdependence. Yes. And to be interdependent, you need a self.

There's so much messaging telling us to be less of ourselves. That if we're exerting ourselves, we're being selfish. That we should be selfless.

And in the work I do—and in my book, which will be coming out (I don’t have a pub date yet)—this new language, this whole lens of how we can experience ourselves, comes through the self-owned mindset.

It’s important for all women, but it's also unique to every single woman. It’s like fingerprints. We all have fingerprints, and every fingerprint is unique. You share fingerprints with humankind, but your fingerprint is yours alone.

So, it’s about experiencing your uniqueness and being able to really see and have ownership of that as we move into this space of being interdependent. And what that feels like—that feeling of belonging, of caring, of having reasonable expectations for how we're going to be treated, and how we treat ourselves.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [28:27]
I love that, and I cannot wait until your book comes out. I'm very excited about this, because I think we can have an even deeper conversation once your book is here.

So, I definitely would love to have you back on the show, if you'd be willing, when you get to that point.

If people want to learn more about you now—and they want to learn about the self-owned mindset or connect with you—what are the best ways for them to do that?

Dr. Risa Ryger [28:54]
They can DM. They can find me on Instagram. They can find me on LinkedIn. They can email me directly.

Connect. This is all about connection. And we connected through the grace of someone else.

Connection is everything. And starting with being connected to yourself doesn’t mean that’s where it ends—it’s your foundation for becoming interdependent with others.

Being on this podcast with you has been so wonderful and such a joy. It has given so much to me in our conversation, so thank you very, very much.

And I hope this gives our communities more to think about, more to take in—and most importantly, no matter what, to hold on to this: Positive change can happen at any point in time. You’re never too late.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [30:03]
Yes. You are never too late.

And it’s always incredible what happens when we allow ourselves to change—when we allow ourselves to connect more deeply to ourselves.

What I can say about my own healing process is that the more I’ve connected to myself, the easier and richer my connections to other people have become.

And oh my gosh, my heart is so full. I just… I love this conversation so much.

Risa, it has been so wonderful to have you on. You've just given me so many things to think about. I can’t wait to edit this podcast so that I can go through them again, because you’ve shared so many gems with everyone.

Thank you so much for being on the podcast, and I look forward to continuing this conversation with you again—on the podcast, and in all the other ways we can connect out in the world.

Dr. Risa Ryger [30:57]
I look forward to it all. Thank you so much for having me on.